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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  January 27, 2013 1:00pm-2:00pm EST

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political overhauling the postal system to keep it solvent. >> i'm cached crndy crowley in washington. if you missed any part of today's show, find us on i-tunes, just search state of the union. fareed zakaria, gps is next. >> this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm far reez zakaria. this week at the world economic forum, i have interviewed one king, seven prime ministers and one head of government. you will see them in coming weeks, this week we have one king and one prime minister. we'll start with the king of jordan, abdullah ii. his nation sits astride a region in turmoil. despite some protests, jordan
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hasn't had its own arab spring. everyone was watching the parliamentary elections this week, will they satisfy protesters? or inflame them? we'll get the king's reaction. then the prime minister of russia, dmitry medvedev, relations between the united states and russia are at a new low. some call it a new cold war. who's to blame and will russia help in syria? we'll discuss it all. also the algerian hostage crisis that left dozens dead. is this a sign of a grave new terror threat? i tell you my view. people like me try to get a sense of the mood of the place, take the temperature of the people in this frosty mountain resort. obviously i will give you a highly impressionistic and personal nature. since davos does bring together leaders in government, business,
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media, even the ngo community from all corners of the world. it is so what is the mood? well, there's a sense of calm, a relief that many storms that seemed like they might be overwhelming, like the euro crisis have been weathered. people from america are optim t optimist optimistic, those from emerging markets more so. but everywhere there is a sense of caution. mpw seeing -- released this week, 452% saw no change from the current tepid economic environment. 28% saw a decline and 18% said things will get better. it is still an improvement from last year, when 48% predicted a decline. the last few years of recovery, followed by slowdowns of political crisis, of new terror attacks from north africa, have made people wary of excessive
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optimism. these are stable, crises have been contained. there's some growth on the horizon, but no one's ready to declare that we have turned any corners. there are no bulls in davos this year, no countries taking center stage. one symbol of the mood, the big splashy parties that companies like google used to throw have been quietly discontinued. not that google couldn't afford it, they just had that their first year with $50 billion in revenue. it's a sense of growth that people have gotten used to, growth that companies have hoped for in the future just doesn't seem likely. growth numbers that are low, lower than they had projected only a few months ago. the world is coming to grips with the fact that the financial crisis might have ushered in not a few years, but a decades of slow growth. and we're not quite halfway through it.
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let's get started. >> the next big story in the ongoing changes in the arab world is the pivotal parliamentary election that took place in jordan this week. it was the first time ever jordan has allowed international observers to monitor its polls. jordan's king abdullah ii has said his nation is transitioning to a coalition government. but an opposition group boycotted the elections saying that jordan's electoral jobs favored the mon -- i sat down with king abdullah at davos on
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friday. when you look at the arab spring, is it fair to draw the inference at this point in the game, that -- by which i mean to say, the states that are tempted repression are either the regimes are either gone or teetering like syria, but those that have large oil wealth, were able to provide patronage of various kinds, particularly in the adult have all survived. >> this is one of the problems we face in political reforms in jordan. we're still living in the shadows of the cold war, and during the cold war, it was more sort of let's say the monarchies that were aligned to the west, and the republics that are aligned to the soviet union, so maybe you've seen the reactions more in the public than sort of in the countries that are either emirates or monarchies. but this is what may be the
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transition to political reform even more difficult for example in my country, 90% of the people are still averse to being aligned to political parties. though we have had this wonderful parliament of 56% i think is way beyond anybody's expectations. the challenge now and i see in jordan specifically, the hard work for us is actually creating that political party culture. this is actually the hard work. i think the easiest part to that exextreme of the past year and a half is behind us. when you look at these elections that were just held. >> you're right, 56% turnout for the time you allowed international monitors n but this was fairly extensive. >> absolutely. >> and yet the muslim brotherhood has side that they will boycott it, they are intent
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on street protests, how serious a problem is that. >> actually if you're living in jordan today, they will tell you that is not a serious problem whatsoever. i think the weakest standing of any muslim brotherhood of any country is actually in jordan. at the beginning, the doubters out there and the opposition didn't think that anyone would register to vote i was challenged to the oppositions that boycott it, actually being very small in the numbers. it just doesn't bode well for any of us. the next challenge is how do they come in over the next four years and reinvent themselves. >> you could live with a muslim brotherhood prime minister? >> i don't think that will happen by the vote of the people. i believe that they're still part of the mechanism and how do
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we reintroduce them into reform aspects in the future. >> what would you like to see in syria. you are facing an extraordinary crisis. you have just gone through a decade in which you took in hundreds of thousands of iraqi refugees. the iraqis have just started going back and now you have this new influx. do you think the fall of assad will in some way end this crisis or do you believe that will be the beginning of a larger syrian war. >> for the first time there's talk of is there going to be a fragmentation of syria, the break up into smarl states i think would be catastrophic and something we would be reeling from for years to come. but the nastier it gets, the more complicated it gets. but anybody saying that the
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musharif regime only has weeks to live, doesn't know the reality on the ground. i give them a strong showing, at least for the first half of 2013. >> why sit that the army has not gone to assad and said you have to leaf? in other words there's been relatively little defection of that highest level, help us understand what the dynamic is that keeps the regime together. >> well the regime was based on leadership, that gives us a lot of its strength. and again, part of the problem is with some of the minorities, especially if you look at the christians and the jews, part of the issue that we have been tackling with in the past several year and a half, is this influx of radical fighters coming into the country. they're not happy with the bay that bashar is dictating the view of his country.
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radical islamist groups are more fighting. that's what's kept them on the sidelines and therefore given more support to the regime, because obvious 2 is worse. >> how much penetration into syria do you sense. >> al qaeda is established in syria. they have been there for about a year. they are getting a certain supplies of material, weapons and financing, unfortunately from certain sectors. so they are forced to content w and even if we get the best government into damascus tomorrow, we have at least three or four years. jordan is today and has been comitted since three weeks into the afghan campaign, we have been there for many, many, many years, but today, when we look at jordanian troops deploying to afghanistan, because i think the new taliban that we're dealing
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with is actually going to be in syria. >> we'll be right back. later in the show, russia's dmitry medvedev. ♪ i hope this never ends ♪ and we'll be the best of friends ♪ ♪ all set? all set. [ male announcer ] introducing the reimagined 2013 chevrolet traverse, with spacious seating for up to eight. imagine that. with spacious seating for up to eight. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern.
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and we are back in snow
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covered davos. more of my conversation with dig abdullah of jordan. there's another election that took place this week, this really elections, when you look at what happened, do you believe that prime minister netanyahu may be encouraged to take more positive steps to try and achieve a two-state solution? >> well, i could say, i'm probably happier with the turn out of my election than he is with his. but whatever happens there's an understanding with the prime minister because obviously -- last year, 2012 was a year where we tried to keep the atmosphere positive -- internal issues with the re-election or the elections that were going on in that country. president obama won, and as a second term president, there's always an advantage of pushing
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the peace process forward. this phase, reeding up until the inauguration, israeli elections has been what we call the hallmark stage. in order has similar countries and with three leaders in europe, the british, the french and the germans are all marching to the president in march to say it's time to engage on this palestinian process. primary netanyahu knows that and whatever he does to form his coalition, he's going to keep in mind that his international -- is going to be knocking on his door and that of the palestinians to move the process forward. >> do you worry that in this election, you did also have the rise of new voices in israel that openly talk about the permanent annexation of the west bank and gaza, that talks about there is no palestinian state and that jordan is the palestinian state? >> i think since arab spring, you have many israelis saying
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this is the best thing that's happened to us. and all of us couldn't believe or fathom that line of reasoning. i would say that most israelis look at the arab spring with tremendous concern. so the last thing i would think that the majority of sensible raebllys would want the region destabilized. the question is can they create a two-state solution? we're not too late, the two-state solution will only survive as long as president obama's term. beyond that, if we don't fix it in the next four years, i don't believe it will ever happen. >> a final question, i mentioned repression didn't work, bribery seems to have worked. you haven't repressed, you don't have the money to bribe. do you feel like you have managed this kind of balancing act in jordan and that you worry that all these pressures from syria, the israeli issue could destabilize it at all.
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>> it goes without saying that the past year and a half with very difficult challenges to our economy, to our gasp being cut off in egypt that got us into the financial difficulties that we face today. but jordan has always, i think, looked at whatever policies they have not to use other things happening in the area as an excuse. i think the difference between jordan and many other countries is we took a different approach. and we pushed for evolution, not revolution, and the only way you can do that is through the rule of law. so national committee was put together. and they changed a third of the constitution created an independent commission for elections, a new constitutional court, many other laws, so we took the systematic approach, mainly because of my experiences in being educated in the west and looking at how western systems did it, it was really the rule of law, and i sometimes am surprised by western think
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tanks and certain ambassadors of our country where they say this is going to be very difficult. you think? this has been a major challenge and you can't have this by waving a magic wand people will start in the next elections vote for candidates because they're on the left or right of those particular issues. that political party culture, that is the major challenge. and where we're starting from down in jordan, i think we're still steps ahead of many, many countries in the middle east. it's going to be tough for all of us, but that's the only way i think we can do it. >> your majesty, thank you very much. this was a fascinating conversation. that was jordan's king abdullah ii. when we come back, new attacks in algeria have made many talk about the return of al qaeda. but the facts don't quite
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now for our what in the world segment. the recent terrorist attack at a natural gas plant in algeria, which together with the counter strike by algerians left at least 37 foreign hostages and 29 militants dead has aroused fears that we are watching the resurrection of al qaeda. no longer in just southwest asia, but in many corns of asia as well. there's little doubt that the terrorists who seized the plant
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are brutal, nasty people. but some questions about them remain. are they really a branch of al qaeda. do they have global jihadist aims? the two they seek to destroy our way of life? the algerian group responsible for the attack, the brigade of the masked ones is led by muck tar bell muck tar. the algerian arm cancelled the elections, banned the election front that was poised to win and began a -- subsequently remerged. in that war between 150,000 and 200,000 algerians died. the most extreme groupsa survived continued to battle the algerian state, but they never
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espoused larger jihadist goals, in fact from being an nile list aches -- there are thousands of miles of exposed pipelines in oil rich algeria because they wanted to replace the government, not -- they have survived not because of any ideological support from the population, some factions have prospered by thoroughly unislamic activities like the smuggling of drugs and to be k back -- far more lucrative business, the average ransom for a western hostage held by aqim in 201 1rks was $5.4 million
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this sort of terrorism phased richly in this world not the next. last year ceased control of parts of northern mali and imposed sharia law. he is a larger than life figure who has spent lock years fighting not for slauchl. he created sup parties of religion when he was passed for leadership of the main rebel movemen movement. >> what conclusion can we draw from all of this? that these groups are composed of local thugs with long standing grieve varnss that have very little to do with global islamic jihad. terrorism has been a very good business for them. while their own forces have
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latched support at home in the hope of enhancing their appeal and perhaps crucially gaining global attention. keep in mind, osama bin laden's words in 2004, all that we have to do is send two mew jaujahide to -- smugglers to grand i'd logical foes is to play into their own hands. for mon on this, you can read my column in this week's "time" magazine. up next, my interview with the prime minister of russia dmitry medvedev. ...$10 off any turbo tax deluxe level software or higher! find thousands of big deals now... officemax.
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i'm fareed zakaria coming from davos. russia is no longer a superpower, but it remains one of the world's most powerful countries. it has a large nuclear arsenal, a large oil and gas reserves and now a seat at the world trade organizations. yet it's direction and interests still seem unclear to many in the west. is it modernizing, is it trying to help solve problems like syria. in the hope of better understanding the country, i sat down with its prime minister who struck me as poised and confident. part of a regime that feels it
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has weathered storms from the financial crisis to the arab spring. almost nine months ago, russia saw one of the most important job swaps i can remember. rush sha's president dmitry medvedev became the russian prime minister. and russia's prime minister vladimir putin became russia's prime minister. i last interviews mr. medvedev 2 1/2 years ago before the job swap plan was officially floated. i reminded him of that interview when we met again in davos this week. thank you again for joining us. the last time we met, you were president. i asked you a question and i said do you expect that you will serve a second term. you seemed o eed optimistic of property pekt that you would
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serve a second term. >> translator: if you really want to know, let me tell you. we achieved the main goal to ensure continuity, just like any political competition, we made sure that the political forces that we represent will stay in power for years to come. and the people supported us. my current job is very interesting. being a prime minister is a very demanding job. and as long as i have the strength, i will continue to do this and be of benefit to my country. >> sooner or later i will have to make other decisions which i will also make taking into account the opinions of our people. and interfering with my punished.
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i cannot exclude my long-term political career or anything. but there is no point in speaking about that right now. i'm often asked why did you do this? is there a close relationship with my close colleague? with my friend? for what reason. >> so it was his decision more than yours? >> translator: it's pointless chblgs it would be counter productive. >> let me ask you about syria. you have said that russia wants you to be neutral in the conflict. but the reality is that the russian army has trained the
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syrian army, there are long ties there and you have influence with the syrian government, very few countries have it. if you believe, what i have tried to understand, is that it is not in russia's interest for this conflict to go on, for it to become one in which more and more militant islamic forces participate in jihadi group forms. so why would you not, from the russian federation was not an exclusive ally of syria or president assad. we had good reltss with his father and him, that -- we make
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sure president assad stays in power. that decision has to be made by the syrian people. the syrians are a multiethnic and multireligious people. thus we need to have all present at the negotiating table. sunnis, shiia, jews, christians, only this way can you have a general national dialogue. if he excludes someone, then the civil war will continue and the war that is already under way.
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>> why doesn't russia try to broker some such agreement? why don't you take the lead? >> i personally a few times called assad and said, you need to start reforms. you need to sit down at the negotiating table. i repeat one more time. in my view, unfortunately, the syrian authorities turned out not to be ready for this. once again, it should be decided by the syrian people, not russia, not the u.s., not any other country. the most important thing right now is to support the process of national reconciliation. >> be you agree with me, what's happening in syria is bad for russia, because it is becoming more and more islamic, it is
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becoming more and more jihadi. there is an urgency for you to do something. >> it's hard for me to agree with you, but i believe the situation is so troublesome for -- jihad did not only penetrate into europe, they tried to infiltrate the u.s. >> when we come back, the latest cold war style battle between america and russia. why the new ban on americans adopting russian babies any'll ask the prime minister and a secret conversation he had with president obama. when we return. uhh, it's next month, actually... eddie continues singing: to tickets to... paradiiiiiise! no four. remember? whoooa whooaa whooo! you know ronny, folks who save hundreds of dollars
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the united states and russia have been making moves that remind one of the cold war. the current chill arguably started with the death of this man. he was working for an american investor william browder in russia. at one time the largest foreign investor in russia. to cut a long story short, he claimeda certain russian officials had persecuted browder--he was persistent and soon found himself in jail and then died there due to the lack of medical attention. browder urged the u.s. congress to punish those implicated in what he charged was a murder.
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in early december, congress passed the act which bans certain russian officials from coming to the u.s. and froze their assets. and russia responded -- it is now drafting a list of american officials it wants to ban from russian territory. i brought all this up with russia's prime minister, dmitry medvedev. when we look at the situation, we see a situation that's still out of control. how should we think about this? >> as i would be so for any person who passed away behind bars, and russian law enforcement needs to investigate
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fully what happens in that prison why he died and who is to be held responsible. speaking of the activities of him, my assessment is quite different. it is not impossible they came across corruption because corruption is abundant. but he was never a corruption fighter. >> the united states congress has -- betrayed electrication with russia which tied trade with russia to certain issues of corruption. individuals who are deemed to have been part of a private system of corruption in russia. you have criticized that legislation. and you have said that russia will respond smetically and asmetically. but i wanted to ask, are there any further russian retaliatory
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moves that we should anticipate. >> regarding the congress and its actions, well, i think it's bad when a foreign parliament passed a decision regarding another state. it's even worse when a foreign parliament and i'm referring to the u.s. congress in particular, he declares a number of persons criminals. need to feel the difference. there is a fine line, every country has the rights to refuse any citizen of any other country a visa to enter its territory. that is a normal practice. that is in line with international conventions. and you don't even have to give reasons, but when that is made publicly, deliberately, when congress says we're going to compile a list of names, specific persons that committed
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an offense -- how would you call that? i would call that an ext extrajudicial act because you find them guilty without court and trial. so this situation, a russian parliament had to respond. and i'm not ready. i'm not -- that's emotional. but in any case, we can always finds somebody who the russian parliaments will declare as violentors. perpetrators of human rights or other legislation. they found such people and they passed a vote. >> but there will be retaliation under international law in the way that it is allowed? >> translator: i believe the whole situation is bad and it won't improve russian-u.s. relations. and it's not going to be
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beneficial for the global world order. i have always had my legal feeling about that. i do not think that in the 21st century, any state, even such powerful and democratically developed as the u.s. has the right toss have such decisions towards the citizens of other countries, no one has cancelled the sovereignty of states. >> one of the acts taken by the russian duma was to ban the adoption of russian orphans by americans. i'm puzzled by this, because i see it as a retaliation against the passage of the magnisky act, but the people who are being punished are russian orphans, ones who are handicapped in some way regarded as undesirable are
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being given hope for a new life and stable family in the united states. why punish the russian orphan. >> translator: neither legally nor practically, it's not linked with the mannisky case. it is a law which expresses the concerns of the russian parliaments and the russian state duma. and the council of the federation of the destiny of our children because no matter what anyone says, this is the direct responsibility of a state to ensure that children who do not have parents have the necessary care including health care. this is a part of a moral culture. we should take all the necessary decisions so that there would be
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no orphans in russia itself. the u.s. does not have such a problem, many european countries do not have this problem. we have a good society already and we have people who are well -- this is the reason behind a decision we have made. >> but you could encourage russians to adopt orphans and handicapped orphans, you could provide them with incentives. why ban foreigners from doing it because if the culture in russia does not change and cultures don't change in two or three years, you will have a generation of orphans who have been punished for no fault of their own. >> translator: well, there is another side to this issue, which is rather complex and i would not like to speculate on this matter. but still, i have to mention it. unfortunately, the information
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which we believe about the fate of russian children adopt in the united states does not make anyone happy. >> meaning what? >> will you explain what that means. >> i will explain. a large number of american families who adopted russian children really provide the correct care, upbringing and education. and in that case, they get high marks. this is the highly moral attitude. but unfortunately, in our country, we know a lot of cases when children adopt by american parents died or were tortured or lost their health in the u.s. and even one such case would be enough to suggest the draft of a law for consideration. >> are you documenting cases that you have about this?
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>> translator: of course. these cases, all the cases, maybe they don't reach you, all these cases have been described on the russian tv multiple times and the even. >> let me ask you a final question, mr. prime minister. when you were part of one of the world's most overheard private conversations between you and president barack obama. and president obama said famously in my second term, i will have more flexibility. >> i have more flexibility. >> and you said, thank you, i will convey that to mr. putin. what was he talking about? what kind of flexibility? >> translator: well, i think this question is better asked not to me but to my colleague, barack obama.
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but if we are serious, i think everything is quite simple. it's not for me to explain to you the intricacies of american politics. but it is absolutely obvious that the constitution stipulates that the second term of the american president is his last term. in that sense, any u.s. president during his second term can take a stronger position and act in a more decisive manner and that is exactly what barack meant. but if we talk about the subject itself, it is extremely difficult and so far we don't see any flexibility. there are no easy solutions in terms of anti-missile defense. there is no flexibility. we have not changed previous positions. the u.s. has one opinion and the russian federation, unfortunately, has a different opinion. these positions are not getting any closer. >> mr. prime minister, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you.
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thank you. that was my interview with dmitry medvedev. coming up, what is greece smoking? i'll explain. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. cue up alka-seltzer. it stops heartburn fast. ♪ oh what a relief it is! [ construction sounds ] ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪
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my question of the week is, what > welcome back to davos, switterland.
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tuesday marked an anniversary on this continent. my question of the week is, what was the elysee treaty? my question of the week. "a" a treaty establishing the president as head of state in france. "b" a treaty of peace and friendship between france and germany. "c" created european steel and coal community or "d" bringing france into nato. stay tuned. we'll tell you the correct answer. go to for more of the gps challenge and also follow us on twitter and facebook. remember, if you miss a show, go to you can find audio and video versions. this week's book of the week is "the idea factory." bell labs and the great age of american innovation. it tells the amazing story of an american institution that probably spurred more innovation than any other. bell labs at its height employed 15,000 people, 1,200 of whom were ph.d.s and 13 of whom won
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nobel prizes. it's a story of american innovation from the most unlikely source. now, for the last look. it's been frigid in davos this week and the snow capped mountains make you want to curl up by the fireplace with a good book. almost 1,000 miles away, greece is enjoying slightly warmer temperatures, but take a look at these pictures. i reckon you can barely see the this smog is not from coal plants but the stoves and wood fireplaces not because they're curling up with a good book, but a massive switch off heating oil as many can no longer afford it to heat their homes. bloomberg says heating oil prices have risen here 50% from 2011 to 2012, mainly due to the heavy taxes levied on it. so the greeks are turning to burning everything from furniture to chopped down trees.
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some illegally cut from protected forests. according to the epa, a fireplace emits more than 2,000 times the amount of fine particles that an oil furnace does. surely the environmental and health care costs from toxic clouds of smoke exceeds the benefits of collecting high heating oil taxes, especially if the citizens are no longer buying it. what is plan "b" for greece? the correct answer was "b." the elysse treaty was signed on january 22nd, 1963 by the french president and west german chancellor. it ushered in a new era of peace between these two neighbors who had started three wars between each other in the previous 75 years. for all their problems, france and germany have come a long way. that's all. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. i will see you next week.
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hello, i'm miguel marquez with a check of our top stories. a horrible nightclub fire has claimed at least 232 lives in southern brazil. it happened early this morning in the city of santa maria. college students were packed in the club celebrating the end of their summer vacation when the fire broke out. brazil's president rushed back from a summit in chile. >> this is a tragedy for all of us. i would like to say to the people of our country and to the people of santa maria that in this time of sadness, we're all together. >> we will have much more on brazil at the bottom of the hour. in egypt, at least 30 people were killed in clashes in the city of port sied. they wanted to reach 21 people who were sentenced to death last week for their part in a deadly soccer riot. the debate over gun control ramped up this weekend. activists on both sides are pushing their points of view. enthusiasts