♪ because their teeth should ravage a gold beard ♪ i've lost some eyeless friends whose blood ♪ runs cold my new people ♪ on silent heels pretends to be old ♪ cause i won >> larry: tonightly, fox business network hosts the republican debate in milwaukee. the beer capital of america. and just like old milwaukee beer, it was hard to finish and made me throw up a little in my mouth ( laughter ) the 1950s program "operation wetback" as an example of good immigration policy. what a surprise! a racist thing created 60 years ago. and i sit down with shonda

rhimes, the create of "scandal" and "grey's anatomy." we'll have to wait and see if she went for my mcbaldy pitch. tgi-wednesday, america, this is "nightly show." captioning sponsored by comedy central ( cheers and applause ) ( cheers and applause ) >> larry: thank you very much! please, please welcome to "nightly show." hold on a second. ow yourself! and before we get started, happy veterans day to everyone who served out there. ( cheers and applause ) especially to mr. major al jones. thank you, sir, for your service. we have a great show tonight. shonda rhimes will be joining us tonight, guys.

( cheers ) now, as you know, the g.o.p. debate was last night, a two-hour contest to see who is best suited to denegroify the white house. i don't know how it's going to happen. that means it's time to check in with the unblackening. mmmm. mmmm. last night, i went home early, poured a glass of wine, locked the door in case ben carson tried to break in and stab me. you never know. you never know. picked up the remote so i could watch me a little republican debate on the fox business network, right. and then just like everyone nels america, i said, "honey, do we even get fox business network?" i mean, what the hell is that? and this is weird because i live alone. ( laughter ) i don't even know who i'm yelling to.

all right, first let's check in with narcolepsy american, ben carson. >> and what we have to recognize is putin is trying to really spread his influence throughout the middle east. >> larry: okay. i don't even care what he said! i'm so distracted. he's always closing his eyes. "and putin, and putin." i think he writes the answers inside his eyeliz. ( laughter ) ( applause ) i do. i really do, guys? i'm serious. right? ( applause ) and then he's just reading them. it makes complete sense. if anyone is capable of surgically removing his open eye liz it's ben carson. or rand paul. you're right. so fox business, so obviously this is about economics but it's a republican debate so it might get a little jesus-y. a little bit. and nobody can merge those two like ted cruz. >> there are more words in the

i.r.s. code than there are in the bible. and not a one of them is as good. ( laughter ) >> larry: i would say "refund" is better than "plague." i mean-- ( applause ) i'm just-- just comparing words. unless you're talking about a plague of refunds. ( laughter ) then the bible's got it right. but you know what, it's the tax code. what's wrong with it being complex? here's what i want to know-- why is complexity a bad thing to republicans? we're the wealthiest country in the history of the world. it's all right if our tax code has a little complexity in it. republicans love having this conversation around elections. you don't want to be a smart elitist. you have to be a dumbed-down, everyday joe. >> for the life of me, i don't know why we have stigmatized vocational education.

welders make more than philosophers. we need more welders than philosophers. >> larry: outside of the fact that philosophers actually make more than welders, it's your party's philosophy to destroy the unions that make it possible for welders who are trying to protect their jobs! ( cheers and applause ) i mean, that's why all welders are becoming philosophers to find out who the ( bleep ) this happened! but the ultimate expression of contempt for higher thinking is the front-runner himself. >> the t.p.p. is a horrible deal. it is a deal that is going to lead to nothing but trouble. it's a deal that was designed for china to come in, as they always do, through the backdoor and totally take advantage of everyone. >> hey, gerard, we might want to point out china is not part of this deal. ( applause ) >> larry: look, trump is

stupid. ( laughter ) ( applause ) ( cheers ) just plain and simple. you see, contempt for higher long-range, critical thinking, or as they call it elitism, it was always a strategy for smart guys to get into office but now those smart guys are getting buried by their own creation of dumb. that's why jeb is so frustrated. why do you think he has an exlambation point at the end of his name. let's hear trump talk about oil. >> we should have given big chunks to the people that lost their arms, their legs, and their families and sons and daughters because right now, you know who has a lot of that oil? iran and isis. >> larry: stupid! it doesn't even make sense for me to break it this down because it's just stupid. and a quick note, philosopher, forrest gump's mom, stupid is as

stupid does. very smart. but here's the thing, here's the thing-- and if stupid gets power, it can dumb some stuff like this. >> let me just tell you that dwight eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him. i like ike, right. the expression, "i like ike," moved a million and a half illegal immigrants out of the this country, moved them just beyond the border. they came back. moved them again beyond the border. they came back. didn't like it. moved them way south. they never came back. >> larry: now, this may seem like go yet another harmless souffle of stupidity, but for those of you who don't know what trump is talking about-- and i'm including donald trump here-- he's talking about a program called "operation wetback." it was really called that. in the summer of 1955, hundreds of thousands of mexicans were

rounded up, loaded into trains and boats and dumped across the border. and some even had their heads shaved so border agents would even they tried to come back. in july of 1955, 88 deported people died after being dumped in the desert on a 112-degree day. this, according to donald trump, is a model he wants america to repeat. >> audience: boo! >> larry: this isn't funny anymore. it's just stupid. we'll be right back. ( cheers and applause ) squire?! what beer may i fetch you, my lord? umm... i'll have a redd's apple ale. and perhaps a wrench.

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( cheers and applause ). >> larry: welcome back. tonight we're going to have a special talk with one of my favorite people. she's the creator of "grey's

anatomy" and "scandal" and "how to get away with murder." her new book is called "year of yes." please welcome shonda rhimes, everybody. ( cheers and applause ) now, shond awe wanted to make you feel more comfortable so we have red wipe and popcorn here because i know how you do it in shondaland. we have the popcorn here. in fact, let's do this in shondaland. there you go. yeah. i like to call this shondaland east. >> all right. >> larry: now, man, that's real wine. that's good. that's nice. now, your new book "year of yes," so you spent, what was it, like, a year saying yes to everything? >> about a year and a half saying yes to basically everything they thought was terrifying, awful, gonna make me freak out, yeah. >> larry: what was the hardest thing to say yes to? >> being on talk show glz really? >> yes. >> larry: this was the hardest thing?

>> one of them. i think i have such a pan and i can fear of public speaking or being in public. i'm really an introvert. i was very shy when this began, so i would go into a full panic, full panic. and i wouldn't remember doing the interviews. >> larry: in your book you keep mentioning-- i felt like i was going to poop in my pants." another one of the things you said yes to? >> no, i said no to pooping in my pants. >> larry: and you also talked about this thing you called "first only different." >> yeah. >> larry: that's interesting. what is that? >> i called it f.o.d. because, i don't know, a lot of us have this. if you are a person of color, if you are the first woman eye don't know, if you are differently abled and you are the only one to have ever done something, you are an f.o.d. obama san f.o.d. serena williams -- >> that's a nicer name than. >> yeah. sevena williams is an f.o.d. being in this job, you are an f.o.d. and it means everybody treats

you like there's something very special about the fact that you're able to do this job while being a woman and being a woman of color when really, you know, you're doing it the same way anybody else would do it. >> larry: was it being isolated as the f.o.d., that made you want to do "year of yes." >> i think the stakes are higher. when you are a woman that makes a show with the first african american lead in 37 years -- >> i'm going to have some wine while you're saying this. >> you drink up. if you fail they're not going to do it again. >> larry: and there will be a lot of black women who will be mad at you, too. >> yes, the stakes are high. >> larry: i remember when margaret cho had her show, and it didn't work they said, "we can't do a show with koreans." how many white people have a show-- one korean doesn't make it, and that's it. >> yes. >> larry: it's amazing to me. ( applause ) so i've heard you talk about the notion-- people like to say

you've broken that glass ceiling but you kind of resisted that a little bit. is it because you think they're going to make a sister pay for the sealing? no one has own aid night of television since aaron spelling. was that in the 70s when that happened? >> 70s, yeah ( applause ). >> larry: absolutely. i think it was "charl's angels" "starsky and hutch" something like that. that's huge? >> it is, but -- >> yeah. >> i don't know, there were a ton of other people who came before me. there were a ton of other women who came before me. i felt there was a sense of there are other foot prints who ran in them before you got there and made this happen. >> larry: i heard-- i don't know if you have-- black people need to work twice as hard to achieve half as much. >> yes. >> larry: i have to drink

twice as much to get half the buzz. why is that saying so important to you? and does it still hold true? >> i think it does still hold true. it's interesting. people ask me, who said that to me, where it came from? i grew up -- >> i'm in shondaland. >> i understand, i understand. i grew up always so knowing that phrase it's just been there, the same way i'm black has been there. it's just never been a thing that i've ever thought about, like why would that be. >> larry: it's not like you looked in the mirror and went, "( bleep )! i'm black. guess i better work twice as hard. i don't know." ( laughter ) you never know. it could have happened that way, by the way. >> it could have, i suppose. but, yeah, it's just been part of my life so it's never occurred to me. >> larry: shonda this is where you have to keep it 100% real. keep it 100. shond ayou ready? keep it 100. shonda, have you ever killed off a character because you didn't like the actor? ( laughter )

and extra bonus points-- who was it? ( laughter ) keep it 100. keep it 100. don't even think about lying. this is your year of yes, shonda. >> yes. ( cheers and applause ) and i'm not naming names. >> larry: no! >> audience: boo! >> larry: keep it 100. guess what, that's all right, shonda rhimes, everybody. ( cheers and applause )

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♪ outside the window ♪ beautiful and strange ♪ it must be ♪ falling away ♪ i must be ♪ sound and color ( cheers and applause ) >> larry: welcome back. i'm here with my panel. "nightly show" contributor jordan carlos. ( cheers and applause ) she's a vlogger and host of mtv's "decoded" franchesca ramsey. ( cheers and applause ) and msnbc host and political correspondent, steve kornacki. ( cheers and applause ) and for everyone at home, join our conversation right now on twitter "@nightly show" using the hashtag "tonightly." so last night, yet another televised debate. >> yes. >> larry: and a-- >> we made it. >> larry: i know. so for me, based on last night's debate, there are still too many people running.

and i just want to ask-- i just want to ask as a first question-- who should just stop right now? ( laughter ) right now. >> stop right now. >> larry: right now. >> if anybody had a bad night last night, you know, because a lot of the conventional wisdom was they all won in some way, i think kasich the ohio governor probably had the worst night. from your standpoint, if you're looking to thin the field, the bad news is if kasich goes off the stage christie may take his spot right away because he had a good night in the kids' table debate. >> he had a good night in the kids' table debate? that's like saying you're the biggest which i waw wa-- chihuan cleveland. >> lindsey graham is still in it but polling at 0%. lindsey graham, jim martin -- >> they won't even let him in the debates anymore. he's kind of out. >> guess what? i just made up that guy jim martin. ( cheers and applause ). >> larry: lindsey graham, you think? >> honestly, i think he should take his seersucker ass back to

south carolina. >> larry: i don't even think he has numbers in south carolina where he's from. some people it's just so pathetic right now. it's like a mercy killing. >> i feel like we're seeing a little clarity in this. trump and carson, obviously, are out in front in the polls. trump and carson are out in front of the polls, and cruz and rubio i think are positioned to move fup they start to fall back a little. and then i think you can draw a line. jeb bush i would put beyond the top four at this point. he has to show a lot more than he's shown to get into this thing. >> i would like to keep trump in it just for my amuse. i would like to see. >> it's terrifying. the fact that he's still a contender. the chance of him actually getting into the white house terrifies me. >> the election is a year away and the first primary is in january. >> larry: january or february? >> i think it's january. we have very smart phones. we can figure it out. >> larry: all right. >> no, honestly, i feel like you know i'd love to see a talking butternut squash. i think that's amazing.

and i think carly should stay in. i love to see talking gourds. and i would love to see somebody like carly who is totally out of her gourd. that's great, too. rubio can hang out. you need, like, a designated driver. >> larry: this is like a carpool analysis? >> yes, everything is a carpool. >> larry: what about rubio? what is your opinion of him? i think rubio, in my mind, has the best chance. if there's anyone in the field who has the chance of winning the election, not just the nomination, winning the election, i think it's marco rubio. >> you're from florida. why don't you give it to your flo-rider. >> first of all, i told you the florida thing in confidence. how dare you? >> i apologize. >> how dare you. >> to be fair it's really hard being a floridian. it's kind of like stockholm syndrome. we just deal with whatever we've been given. >> larry: it is cray-cray. >> honestly. i'm still really angry at donald trump for making me agree with jeb bush last night. >> larry: really?

>> i did agree with him on the immigration thing and i was just like, "how dare you, trump! i don't want to agree with jeb." it's bad enough i lived in the same state with him. >> i feel like it's an emotional thing-- >> i'm on the verge of a breakdown right now. >> a lot of trump's positions, it really does make even ted cruz seem reasonable. >> a lot of trump's positions, it's interesting, we think -- >> i just have to say, ted cruz, i believe, is very smart. he's just crazy as ( bleep ). >> yeah. >> larry: he's one of those real smart guys but just the way he-- ooik lime whoa. back up. >> the thing with trump, it's interesting, i think we tend to look at him and reflexively say he's a right wing guy. >> larry: i don't think so, no. >> when you listen to him talk about the iraq war, i can't think of-- besides rand paul, i can't, of a single major republican politician nationally who will go out there and say, "the iraq war was a total mistake. we never should have gone in."

enequivocally. >> larry: jeb will say it under his break the. >> he has trouble addressing that question. >> it's the way trump says it, "it was a big mistake. it's terrible. i called it." you know what i mean? >> gl but rand paul has called it out. rand paul has said it's a mistake but they hate rand paul. >> i think that's the difference between trump and paul. paul talks about-- republicans look at paul and say he's not part of our tribe. we can't go forth. i think they look at trump and say we could sign up for this. >> larry: did anyone think ben carc ofns going to stab anyone last night? >> i actually thought -- >> did you think that would happen? >> no. >> stab watch. >> i actually thought the opposite. i thought ben carson had been stabbed. >> larry: rail? >> he was going in and out of consciousness. i felt bad for him. he was, like, falling asleep, and when he came to, he went off on this weird thing about making the jihadists look like losers. are we going to talk crap about

them on facebook? i really-- he lost me with that one. >> people say things like that in their final moment glz we have to go but let's play a quick little game, "hammer, stab, operate." which one of the candidates should ben carson hit with a hammer, which one should he stab, and whose brain should he operate on? >> i would say stap ka-shuck-a-shuck. >> larry: he's such a nice man. he doesn't even want to be there. he's so uncomfortable on the stage. he's barely keeping it together. he's like i hate these ( bleep ). >> that's the perfect reason, and i never know how to say his name right. get rid of him. >> larry: you're going to stab the nicest guy up there? who would you hit with a hammer giwould also say donald trump. i feel like you could hit him in the head with the hammer and that's kind of like the anesthesia for the operation. >> larry: whose brain gets operated on? >> i say donald trump because it

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( cheers and applause ) >> larry: that's our show. i want to thank our panelists: jordan carlos, franchesca ramsey, and steve kornacki. my chat with shonda rhimes went long, but you can watch our entire interview online. stay tuned for "@midnight" with chris hardwick. happy veterans day, gang. goodnightly, everyone! >> chris: it's 11:59 and 59 seconds. this obviously happened on