tv Book TV CSPAN February 19, 2011 1:00pm-2:00pm EST
people. that's what i mean by morality. the problem with -- dueling is morally very complicated from the point of view of morality understood that way. because whatever you can say about dueling, it is in the end between consenting adults. and normally while we can think what consenting adults do is crazy or silly or even wrong, we sort of are inclined to think it's up to them. it's a complicated case from that point of view. let me ask your question how you shift the norm because i think that's a complicated question and i think the answer -- the most -- the best example of this, i think, is what happened in the foot binding case. you have to have a social movement. they have foot binding societies and the foot binding societies
had to commit themselves to the new norm, right? so you have to have societies of people who say, i'm not going to vote for someone who increases the rate of incarceration or i'm not going to -- i'm not going to eat food that's produced through this means of production. not just i, we. we are. and that's what happened in the foot binding case, and it modeled on something they had done before. and they made a double promise. if you join the antifoot binding society you made two promises. ..
what they say is first of all they only do it at the same time and the village from which a husband, of the daughter of the village. they bring them out, have a conversation together. and then they say, we won't do it and they won't allow the family to do it. and if enough people do it, this is what my friend martin bird would like to call a tipping point. at some point the new normal. and when there is a new normal, on the social pressure on the side of the dueling or foot binding or so that would allow slavery for and suddenly you feel bad about yourself. and i think that -- this is a book about honor and its role in
this, but if you want to make the changes come at their other things you have to do and among them i think is real social organization of social movement, so groups of people who commit themselves to a new convention, a new norm. and then once enough people do it, you can stop talking about it because nobody is going to do it anymore except readers. >> with the conversion point that you're talking about, the paradigm shift. i wondered what you think of the prospects of the movement to a postmodern world in that respect. in other words, a lot of them say will be looking back in 20 years and were going to be asking that question. >> using a finite resource, which are intimately available,
causing no harm, but it's going to destabilize the human enterprise, what were they thinking? you know, which is how the election in the last 48 hours for the public thinking ways to reach out any self-imposed self disdain about the use. now as you know, anthropologists have for it as a duality in this situation. and just as the unit can record from the master switch from on her pretty quickly. [inaudible] >> what do we need to do to move the carbon where we actually have muscular suv drivers who are saying, you know, i'm going to drive this thing until kingdom come in the process they are hastening. >> how'd you get them to the
foot to the point where they say to themselves, what was the gene? >> okay, so the question is, what is going to make that happen in relation to move into a postcard and economy to a world in which we are not failing the mast and making it much harder for the biological survival of american tank which is the sword to our grandchildren in particular, if there aren't any should be particularly inclined to say, what were they thinking about. >> will look, this one is a think a little bit different from some of the others in the following sense. it's got a collective action problem and it's in the way the others don't. that is to say it's really true that my suv is in doing that, right? if everybody else stuffs in a town with my my suv, every would
be fine. when you have to listen to the sound of your daughter weeping or when you have to see this live picture table or watching being whipped by an overseer, there is a direct feedback to you if and when you are did were killed or lose a friend in the deal, there is a direct feedback to you. there is an extra dimension of difficulty, i believe in this case, which we have to solve, of course. it's not an excuse. we have to figure out. and on her is the ideal mechanism for doing that because what honor does notice that happen in the dueling case. what was doing about? one of the things that was about was the kind of cross boundary mechanism. but another thing is six the
silly about with maintaining stability among the aristocracy. the idea was that all these people were about their owner, you better be right because otherwise he'll end up with the sword. but why should i risk my life in order to make my friends polite quiet well, honor, what's it got me concerned about honor, i forget about the fact i have the side effect of making my friends blind. if we can make it dishonorable in chain the people in suvs, then each time they drive around and that's one case. all of us are doing something we should be ashamed of and that should be a visible example. but none of us i think can excuse ourselves. we are litigation practices that are part of the problem. if we can get ourselves to
certify the feeling that as a drive around in my suv, people are inking, what kind of schlock is that? indios, but the trouble is the driver of the suv isn't thinking not. and also the driver of the suv doesn't care because the driver of the suv hasn't been converted to the norm in which there is a problem. but the part about the collective action problem is not going -- is not just a matter of telling people things. you do have to produce cost -- a social cause. and that we can do, but only collectively. we have to and creative movement which is willing to say to people, you know, you are poisoning the human mass. >> the flip that occurred there that has to do with providing an
alternative. in other words, the free labor division in the slave trade in europe moving out of the need for plantation mercantile cat will to industrial capital and why not keep them in africa to grow palm oil. >> this is absolutely crucial. isn't it important that in the slave case there was an alternative, a free lack could produce a confidence vote. so yes, that is the other thing. telling people what they are doing is bad or even shameful isn't helpfulness he tell them there's something else they can be doing that is honorable. and so, it is not enough. you're absolutely right. i shouldn't have said this because it's a very important part -- is actually part of the argument at the end of the book. you can't just tell people they
are bad. that's hopeless. i mean, they'll ignore you. they'll display? , but they won't change. which you have to do is say you are doing a bad thing, but here's a good thing you can do instead to satisfy many many of the same interests, but what to do so in a way that's morally preferable. and i think that -- when we think about these things, we have succeeded in a sense. the previous is. the point is we have made a more environmentally -- slightly more environmentally acceptable. the kind of fun you can feel proud about the environment. again their people or project in suvs and we have to work hard to explain why that's a good friend of mine to bn. i think i'm supposed to allow --
okay, a few more questions. may be close by is the place to be. >> i say your piece in "the new york times" magazine about basically a component of social change movement for people from the exterior, especially in foot binding and you wrote that one of the key components for campaigns with significant involvement of people from the outside is restarted so that, for instance, missionaries who worked on the campaign many times immerse themselves in the chinese culture and really try to avoid coming into it from a position of air against our superiority is how i understand reading it. i guess i'm wondering how that can be done. it seems like a delicate balance to be approaching sensitive issues that are then sometimes argued about in this kind of framework that we are the human race crusaders and then people
can get a sense as an feel that it's cultural imperialism. be not just so i can repeat that the question for the recording, so she was talking about having read a piece i wrote in "the new york times" magazine in which one of the things i stressed about the role of outsiders in helping to bring about changes that abused the chinese case the reason i believe the worked with because the relevance outside were people who seem to have a deep respect for cheney location. timothy brassard, dia belichick will baptist minister burned his confucian taoist. he wrote bufo classical chinese and published in that. they couldn't think this is some ignorant out that it doesn't respect us, so why should we take care?
now, so the first you see is who went to be hopeful i think from the outside is to make sure you know what the heck you're talking about. and not just know what the heck you're talking about, but show that knowing what you are talking about is rooted not in contempt for these other people, but a concern for them in a concern for the girl who's been cut for the girls whose feet are being bound or for the women who risk being assassinated and members of their own family. but mostly for the family. because of killing her daughter, you've lost them being. and she's lost the most important thing she fussed. and so, all of you will be better off if you don't do this thing. unless the outsiders look like that, what you get is the opposite from reaction. you'll get the national
backlash, which we don't in relation to female cutting in the 1930s with the massive campaign and it became an item that you had to maintain this product is a society can know your identity. i mean, her family for a counterproductive intervention. now, let me underline the point. given what most muslims in the world we doubly believe about bravely or wrongly, but reasonably about many americans. american voices on these questions don't sound like they are coming from a place of respect and concern. they felt like they are coming from a place of disrespect, contempt and ignorance and often we have to admit they are.
so those of us who believe that i'm an american citizen. i'm glad to be an american citizen. unlike you, i chose to be an american citizen. it's very important for those of us who represent -- you can because we are americans in a different way, it's very important for us to say what idiots want to burn around for idiots want to oppose the creation of private between which and the world trade center there are women with no tops on in this place were supposed to regard as the place of great sanctity and honor. i mean, when people do things like that, we have to make it clear that some are just in a different respect. and it does the buzz that they
might want to see kept from and maybe even discuss with. i don't want to talk about the guy in florida who is burning koreans. of course they don't want to start doing. but i don't see any reason why they should take any notice that at all. they should ignore it. and i think they should have contempt for him. the very contempt he has for him, but it would be better both of us could the way the maybe possible to have respect for each other in the same way i try to heifers type for the traditions of islam. i disagree with some traditions of islam. i'm saying you shouldn't pretend you agree, but you can manifest respect with him on while still telling them what to think. and by the way, just take a point, in this conversation, which are not modeling very well, you have to listen as well as talk.
one of the great problems we have with the muslim world as we don't hear anything. he mom ralph, who is the religious figure in the prayer center that i hopefully will be the world trade center. he checked the trouble to read a book about the relationship between islam and the american identity and it is true what glenn beck said we should have it in the united states. that's because he thinks they should have it already because the american constitution was founded on principles and that what makes the genuine sharia. it's profoundly defunded. it's profoundly dishonest to misrepresent our mom ralph in this way. but i'm saying this because we have been talking about the
honor. american honors at eight. his personal honor is at stake. he knows this truth, by the way. i mean, it's not that he's mistaken. he's actually doing things before the sought-after. so my point is that this work for us all to be doing on this, but like all the work, you can't do it one other time. i mean, we need to organize ourselves. lots of people are organized to be doing it. one of the key figures in interface debates in this country, dialogue in this country. imam ralph was fair when danny pearl's funeral habit. and he is an american muslim by the way. he's one of us.
now, very important respect. so i do think that your question. sorry, got a little bit distracted, but i do think that there's something for for us to be doing, which is to create the context in which there is to follow. and the dialogue, we will, hope change their minds. i was talking the other day about the guy who got the nobel peace prize the other day to an audience that included some young chinese. and they didn't agree with everything i said. but in their response me, they said we started in this country, that's fine. were not unhappy to be here, but we notice that you are constantly talking about the things we are doing wrong.
while this woman said, can we talk a bit about what you are doing in iraq and afghanistan? absolutely, if we have these conversations can do you have to tell us how it looks. i happen to agree with you. but i'm sure you're going to tell me about things i don't agree with you about. i mean, they were more skeptical about prospects for democracy in china than i am. i believe that roughly speaking all the problems there are with democracy, which there are of course, we can see having done the experiment that they're still there. they kept telling me luck, presentation of the united states may be ignorant to, but they're still entitled to their vote. and in fact, to the extent there's anything ignorant, there should be at least a modest
bonus point for for informing themselves into a rather important decision in your state or country. turns out people don't actually invest a lot for reasons that political scientists read about, but they should. so yes, there has to be a dialogue. there has to be respectful and then we can help each other. the other topic i mentioned in the "washington post" was beer kind of warehousing many old people. now, i grew up in a place where if you try to warehouse old people, lay sold people at families, people would think you were a month here. so there is a place where the conversation, i tank, with the two -- we have a great deal to
implement. the complicated matter. they would tell us how to solve it or what to do, but we would learn from dialogue about that. thank you. [applause] thank you. >> kwame anthony appiah is a professor at princeton university and not there are several books such as "cosmopolitanism." for more information, visit his web night, appiah.net.
>> well, on february 16 at this year, the borders bookstore group declared bankruptcy. joining us on the tv to discuss the impact of the bankruptcy is fair wyman, news editor of overture's marketplace. how did orders get to the point of declaring bankruptcy? >> well, i think it's been a long time coming. certainly the last three years in particular, quarter after quarter, borders has been moving money. they've gone through another country and number of management changes. they afflict for ceos in the past four years. but the story can also date back
to the beginning of the 21st entry at pose. things like adding their website statement signed in 2001 and they didn't reclaim it until 2008. the e-book strategy was never the same as kendall or barnes & noble with a note. it just always seemed that orders us operate a few steps behind every other retailer and combining all these additional factors that have been impacting the publish industry in combination with various managerial mismanagement. it really didn't come as a particular surprise as borders declare chapter 11. the next era weinman, you mention the amazon connection. what did orders do with amazon and interfere few kind of mistake was that? >> to reiterate, back in 2001 importers had its own website,
but instead of running their own e-commerce selling directly to themselves, they passed amazon. so essentially they were giving up revenue to their competitor in order to essentially makes it easier. you do not do it was something of the devil's bargain because they didn't successfully on their own, and property. for by the time they change direction they had a new ceo who said this was not a very good idea. but he is proclaiming it in 2008. but then, amazon it would introduce the kindle. once ennobles milk was already in the works and wouldn't be introduced until 2009. someone borders to develop the e-book strategy in selling some additional, they never were able to pack up in terms of up to marketshare. >> so what happens to the borders e-book reacher?
>> well, cobos says that any e-books that have been bought through borders website are in their words perfectly safe. it's also interesting that the other partner in australia, which incidentally franchises the borders are have also declared encrypts the over there. so i am hopeful that cobos ushers in r&d true, but it will be interest and if in fact the e-books people bought through the border sites are safe and people can reclaim them and read them. >> so borders has about 642 takeback stores across the country? , near the closing? unite the closing 200 the going out of business sales are in fact starting tomorrow. i believe the liquidation sales will be between 20% and 40% of the nose are arty going to be in the works. i've actually already started shutting down cafés at the soup
restores and will be a very apparent walking into the 200 stores that have been designated for closure that you will see the going out of business sale signs and be able to get the books, cds, dvds and other appropriate merchandise at those prices. >> why is that barnes & noble has been able to maintain its big box strategy? is it all about the e-book? >> cannot believe it's all about the e-books. i think it may come down to this, which is that barnes & noble certainly most recently are one of the top people who value books more than anything else. with respect to borders, especially because there's been such a tremendous turn as management changes, they run people from outside companies who had experience in general retail or may not have realized that they are. did not necessarily translate into what is appropriate for the book business. the book business is very quirky
and not always the best at what was back to what public companies in particular need. for expecting and demanding higher and higher profit, it operates on a tight margin. 1% is about average. you're lucky if you get up to 3%. so as a result, this sort of uncomfortable fit, operated by people who aren't as experienced with other book business works probably added to borders travels. >> sera weinman, when you look at the works and mortar, what do you see in the future given what has happened with borders? the mac it's interesting you say that because i am starting to believe more and more that we may also be witnessing the natural end of the chain bookstore business, which essentially is targeted in the late 80s and early 90s with borders expanded come on barnes & noble expanded, when we started the massive superstores that stood alone.
some of them were part of malls, but most are entities you could drive up to a park your car and go with comfy chairs on the part of the greater experience than just browsing for books. and i do wonder if perhaps we were fooling ourselves that this could last as long as it did. and maybe 20 years was a natural life cycle for such a thing. so will see, if actually if sales keep going, perhaps we'll see a greater preponderance of smaller independent stores. a number have opened. certainly many of the questions that have been debated over the last decade, but the ones that have opened and have a certain business documents and engage within their communities and develop even the e-book strategy seemed to have the best chance for survival. i think we'll hopefully see more of those. for the ecosystem is going to change. it will certainly impact how publishers perhaps sign-up
rasters and what event they are paying them what books will be most visible. but to say that shrinking of the chain bookstore business means that the book industry is dead in the direction i would be deeply uncomfortable in making because there's too many lines pointing towards optimistic waters. >> who are some of porter's biggest creditors and what had they had been assailing? >> well, on the unsecured creditors night, the biggest one is the penguin group which i believe is out of 41 million. after that most of the major publishers come up for example, simon & schuster post 33 million. random house is somewhere between the mid-30 range. harpercollins, mcmillan and so on and so forth. i believe the only publisher that has issued a statement of penguin. others had a non-with respect to what is happening.
of course there are the larger secured creditors which are bank of america, wachovia credit agreement. they're still out almost 200. i believe ge capital out almost 50 million off of the trench agreement as well. you have to pay up the banks, have to pay off their biggest publishers. and landlords are trying to get whatever they can as well as additional creditors. so i believe borders owes about 300 or so million to vendors and a half to figure out how they are going to get paid. >> can in your view borders emerge from bankruptcy with its remains top stories, it better, become a profitable company? >> that they would be wonderful to see them emerge as a smaller, leaner, more profitable company. i also believe many of the fact there's that it enabled them to go into bankruptcy may not be so kind and forgiving.
there is to my mind a little too much concordance with what happened when they went into chapter 11 it ministration in late 2008 went to the court realized he didn't have an appropriate business plan and went into chapter seven. numerous reports have indicated overtures are not terribly happy with what borders has in mind. their top priority seems to be highlighting the borders reward plus card. but if customers come in and they know the company is in trouble, do they want to retain or sign up for a membership at a company they may feel doesn't have a future? so i think i must borders has a rocksolid strategy is to have their going to survive, they may suffer. but at the same time, i don't think we'll know for several months at the earliest. >> sir weinman is the news editor at publishers marketplace. thank you for joining us on the
tv. >> so much for having me. be back next mcgill university charles charles euchner represents jobs in 1963 march by martin luther king flavored drinks each of the lincoln memorial before a quarter million people. charles euchner discusses his book is the new haven library in new haven, connecticut. >> we are talking about the concept of heroes. and the idea of hair with them seems a little out dated these days. we live in a cynical age and we have seen our theaters in all
their worth to see them fail, see the cynical maneuvering behind the scenes. not for the better good, but for political advantage in for monetary advantage and so forth. the hair with them, i believe, is one of the most important element of any kind of social progress. in my hair with some i don't mean a few great men or few great women leading the masses behind them, but a much more everyday version is here with them. and there's no better movement in american history to find real heroes in the 1963 march on washington, where all of the factions of the civil rights movement were gathered really for the first and only time. this is a sprawling movement involving diverse groups from all over the country, north, south, east, west, rural, urban. it involves school teachers and ministers and housewives and students and laborers and farmers and everybody you can
imagine god involved in the civil rights movement and many of them, thousands of them became heroes. i think when you go to the mall on august 28, 1963, you are going to encounter thousands of them right there. and i want to talk about a few of these heroes and what they do great deeds possible. i want to start off by talking about a young man named james the pruett who is 18 years old at the time. he was from greenwood, mississippi. and james lee pruett, jenny pruitt came with the whole contingent of people from mississippi in the gut of the biggest cause of the whole day at the march on washington. that james lee pruett carried a sign, actually two signs. they were homemade signs and one of them said to prosecute people for trying to sign up to vote. the other side said a free boat
for everybody in mississippi by 1964. for this effort, and bringing his own son, he was approached by security officials who said you're not allowed to have their time. the march on washington committee had specifically set standards for how the science that come out. fact committee united autoworkers paid for the science. they have been made and there is a group of people, the organizers had to approve every single site and carried the march from the washington monument to the lincoln memorial. and so there was reason for a security guard to approach should be pruett and say sorry, you can't carry the sign. james lee pruett was probably a little bit cared. he was young. he was probably intimidated. he was probably a little surprised. and so he kind of froze the moment. finally comes when called out, jimmy, show him the note.
and so jimmy pruett took out of his pocket he now, unfolded it, give it to the security officer. this is what the security officer said. back in may, jimmy pruett was arrested for taking part in a demonstration. he was sent as she was good and send this to 400 months in prison for marching. he eventually ended up after a few days at the notorious part part in prison outside jackson, mississippi. in part in prison and for those of you who know the ugly history as well as one of the most inhumane prisons to be held. he was called for a total of 52 days. he was stripped for 47 of those days. his body was covered with grease for much of the time. his prisoners told him that it was poison and it would kill him. he was given two paltry mill today in the ration was cut in
half. he was optimistic a nine-foot out with 13 other people. how one point he was in solitary confinement in the heat which reached 106 degrees made him pass out. as i said, he was finally released after 52 days of this. and so the card, the security guard read the note and said to pruett, you can carry your sign. on the telly about another person. dorie ladner was a student at jackson state. she was a protége of nectar of hers who is a leader of the naacp. to wake her up with her sister in a rural town in mississippi were the only access to outside news was when the medicine man came and went deep behind a magazine or newspaper. i dorie ladner soon with their high school got recruited to
join the naacp and started to make trips to the big city of jackson and that's where she met met her. she got more involved in by the summer of 1963, she was a major fundraiser for the civil rights movement. what they did in the state to take people who were at the intake around to new york and boston, chicago, los angeles and they would tell others worry about activism throughout the as a way of raising money to pay for all the activities that the movement. along with her sister, she also worked in the movement. she also worked in the march on washington. she enjoys avner shared apartment with a woman named michelle horvitz and a regular visitor was a young singer named bob dylan who is kind of sweet on dorie. they met at an event in mississippi. but dorie was not only active in the movement. like many other people she was willing to put her body and the
mind. that james lee pruett shoe is on bun and the line. for mac or various was assassinated on the morning of june 12, his followers and the major figures gathered for a major memorial service and funeral. and then they wanted to have a funeral procession passed the state capital of mississippi. the police would find it, but dorie and her fellow activists decided they were going to do it anyway. and for that impudence, she and others were arrested and thrown into jail. i dorie ladner and and jim's group are not the only hope to put their bodies on the line during the civil rights movement. in 1963, it was the busiest in the cellar at movement. in the spring, there were more than 2000 demonstrations across the country, more than 50,000 people were jailed and there were some that were killed like a white postman named william
moore. now why is it that ordinary people like this would be willing to put their body on the line? why is it they would ask those themselves to so much physical danger, lethal danger? one of the major reasons and one of the major causes of this elaborate movements eventual success was a man named jesus celebrated off. a philip randolph was the man who brought mass demonstrations in the civil rights movement in this valley is also the person who dreamed up the march. it was his vision to have this mass gathering before the lincoln memorial. around the time it thata philip randolph got involved in politics in the 19 teens and into the 1920s, the civil rights movement basically had two different approaches to promoting the cause. one causes which you might call the booker t. washington approach. booker t. washington was a major
educator, first back figure invited to@at the white house with resident theodore roosevelt. booker t. washington essentially argued that blacks in order to drive me to accept segregation and build their own institutions within their own world. it was futile to fight the massive structures of segregation. and of course you have to understand this was a time when the were quite common. another figure, w.e.b. du bois disagreed vehemently with booker t. washington. he argued blacks in the civil rights movement had to be much more aggressive, which were at a. they have to become troublemakers and organize everywhere they could. it was the voice he came up with the concept of the attempt. by that he meant the black community as a whole needed to identify the cream of the crop, the best and brightest among the
black community and get them to be a vanguard for the movement, to lead the charge, to decide what happened when anti-dissent attacked eczema strategies and so forth for the movement. do you have these two models of civil rights. now both of them, when you think about it, our elite models. w.e.b. du bois focus on the talented tom. booker t. washington focused on a small group of black leaders within the black community operating within the confines of purgation. but along came a philip randolph, board president of the florida. he moved because he wanted to be an actor to appear to many shakespeare plays. but his father, reverend james randolph didn't approve a and didn't think it was a moral activity. i was done, philip randolph, gave in and gave it back. he soon took to the streets and gave classic soap box for a show
that's about all the issues of the day, economic issues, civil rights, you name it he talked about it. he got involved in organizing. heat a couple of failed efforts to work nicely reunions until unions until he finally succeeded after many years he organized the poneman sleeping car porters. now in this day and age, we don't even really remember much about the pullman car porters, but at the time, the pullman company was the single biggest employer of blacks in the united states. organizing them with your major coup for the black community. he had to endure violence. he had to endure a threat. he enjoyed people thousands who lost their jobs in its organizing drive. and he was even offered rides. he actually took a photostat of a blank check that the pullman company sent them and send the check box that he would have proof of the bribes they were
trying -- that they were trying to make. he eventually succeeded and became a full cure within the black community. not the lesson of philip randolph got from others that they've been was that the only thing i would hope the black community overcome what he called a slave mentality or an inferiority complex was to get the bodies out on the street, get their bodies out in the town square. get their bodies on the picket line to rest themselves forward, to give themselves or to assert their identity. only by getting them physically into the mix could they ever overcome the inferiority that they sent her to the american system. so where did james lee pruett, what a dorie ladner get the courage and where did the hundreds of thousands of other people get the courage to come out there and put their bodies on the line? one of the major reasons witha philip randolph, who by the way
at the town was called the most dangerous in america by the fbi, the label they would later decide to use for martin luther king. but it wasn't -- it's not enough to put your bodies on the line. you also have to think intelligently. you think strategically and creatively. there were a number of people in the movement, many of them that day.mac did very creatively. the civil rights movement was above all a highly intelligent movement. it was creative in all types of ways that invented a lot of everyday strategies intact if the politics we now take for granted. one of the strategies of the civil rights movement uniquely brought to america politics didn't invent it, but they brought it to a mass scale was the part is of civil disobedience. in nonviolent resistance. now, the reason this is how important is quite a bold.
the state according to max weber and others have a monopoly on the use of force. it has a monopoly on the use of violence in society. so if you try to meet the state's power with violence, you're going to be vastly overmatched and thrown into jail. the only way to make the power of violence is with nonviolence. and one of the major areas of the was a man named. resting. inspired reston's is a protége ofa philip randolph who organized the march on washington. he was randolph deputy for the organizing of the march. in the randolph argued was that nonviolent resistance was critical to any kind of six is for the civil rights movement for two reasons. one of them is what christians are aware of, which is christ information to turn the other
cheek. but the other is much more strategic. what you do when you resist power and when you do it not violently and when you accept the consequences of it is you essentially withdraw consent from the state. you are saying, i do not ask that the legitimate use of power that is putting me below. so if enough people withdraw consent from the regime, the regime crumbles or the fat part of the regime, that locker practice of the regime can crumble. the only way that the apartheid system from which existed for the black community for much of american history to combo withdrew consent from the. and of course you don't have to participate in a constitutional convention to consent to something. we consent to things every day. any time we stopped at a red light or agree to pay taxes or do anything that the state
government, federal government, anytime we cooperate with the system, were essentially given a tactic that. the genius inspired reston was to relate a few withdraw the can and, this day it loses it's very powerful hold over you. there were a number of other people at the march on washington who understood this and who acted on this. i want to tell you about a couple of them. one was a man named jerome smith who was 23 at the time of the march. he was from new orleans, louisiana and had been involved in other rights that this i'm at this time for 13 years, since he was the grand age growing up in new orleans. not the way the buses operated in new orleans and many other cities at the time was they had these things -- they have these things called screens that they put between the seed and they fit into his.
and as more white on the bus, they moved the spot further and further back towards the back of the bus. and any time a white move to spot further back, blacks had to give up their seats for white, one of the everyday indignities of being black in the south for american history. naturalness met in 1950, when he was 10 years old picks up one of those flat and through to the ground and said i'm not going through this. the driver threatened to have jerome smith arrested him about it woman took him aside and said don't worry bus driver. i'll take this boy to see his father and make sure he gets to thinking of a lifetime. so she took him up the bus. as soon as the bus driver drove away, she embraced them and said keep on doing what you're doing. and that's exact to what he did. he was a freedom rider 1961, but
his greatest contribution to the civil rights movement i believe happened in may of 1963 and played a major role in the eventual success of the march on washington. jerome smith was one of a handful of people invited to the apartment of attorney general, robert f. kennedy in new york city. as a group organized at the last minute as the author, james baldwin and it included some of those beating my like lorraine hansberry, kenneth clark, lena horne, harry belafonte. they all showed up at rfk's apartment to give him a kind of state of the nation for the black community in the united states. and after welcoming his guest to his apartment, robert kennedy kind of recited some of the gains of the kennedy administration was claiming for civil rights. he went on the list that included hiring more black than
any previous administration. it included having more executive orders for civil rights. it included support for a number of different civil rights initiative. and when he was finished, he opened the floor for discussion and question. the senior members of the group turned to young jerome smith and said look, mr. attorney general, want you to hear directly from someone who was in the line of fire on this. and jerome smith was heading right in front of robert kennedy. robert kennedy was sitting on the chair in the middle of the living room and jerome smith was right at his feet. the first metro smith told the attorney general was mr. attorney general, you make me want to. and needless to say, bobby kennedy was shot. but that was just beginning. jerome smith receded to tell him that if the u.s. had gotten involved in a war with cuba, he wouldn't fight.
the attorney general was aghast. this concept of conscientious refusal for military service was still a little bit foreign to him. i look around the room at the older members of the gathering for a little bit of support. he wanted them to kind of put the young man and his ways. they all nodded and said that spray. he is speaking what we want is he, too. this meeting lasted three hours. at the end of it, robert f. kennedy was out, physically shaken. so did james baldwin, the author who organized the whole event. in fact, i talked with the man who took them to a tv station for live interview, henry morgenthau. and henry told me that james baldwin was so shaken not, he was so physically disturbed that he just sighed henri, you need to take me to a bar and we need to get a drink. it you refused to do it and said
no, we need to get to the tv station. in the interview thought it was still shaken not. this is a pivotal moment for the summer. it is only a few weeks later the president john kennedy announced his support for the most overreaching civil rights legislation since reconstruction and in a speech on june 11, he gave the most far-reaching statement of support for the civil rights movement as a moral cause, as an american cause. there had never been a speech as pro-civil rights in american history by a president. now, jerome smith was speaking intelligently. he was getting to the heart of the matter, which is that segregation in all ecosystems in fact depend on the consent of the people. it may not be the?
coated for segregation. they didn't. they actually did vote for anything most of them. it may not be even that a lot of white voted for segregation. half the country was aloof of the whole civil rights. but going along with a system that allows it to happen they have toxic lead to it. which are smith was telling robert kennedy was i am withdrawing my consent. and this is very much along with the teachings of the hairdressing. then they tell you about somebody else who acted with intelligence. there is a young girl named barbara john who lived in a town called farmville, virginia. now, farmville virginia was mechanical prince edward county. and in the years following the brown v. board of education decision in 1954, of the south
for massive resistance to his close and no one was more massive resistance in his state of virginia and in fact, virginia closed down and passed a law in 1959, same no city needs to allow -- these to provide public education for anybody. if you want, you can shut down your whole school system. back in 1951, before brown, barbara johns was concerned about the inequality of facilities of black-and-white was. what happened in virginia at the time if you are only required to provide schooling from gabe k. to 80. after that, you could turn the kids off to work in the field or the farms are fact juries were to do nothing. but there was one school system in virginia they did offer kato
told education for blacks and those in prince edward county. so that's why schools were so overwhelmed. the school built for 180 people at 450 students enrolled in it. so barbara johns intelligently organized a boycott of the school until blacks would get equal facilities with light. and she went with her group of supporters. she went to the naacp, asking their support. they said look will support shia, who were not going to support you for separate but equal. only support you if we are in the slot do we think will make it to the united state supreme court and you become a litigant in the case that will become known as brown v. board of education. so a 15-year-old girl unleashed -- help to unleash a whole series of events that eventually led to the crisis of the schools being shut down in prince edward county. they were shut down from 1959 to
1964. many of the people who went to the march on washington volunteered to create condos a summer school is for all the kids who had never been to school before or haven't been there for years. there is some kid that didn't know how to hold the pencil committed no at the alphabet was. they hadn't been exposed to even the most basic teaching and learning that they needed. and so, number of people who ended up in the mall that day, sleeping for most of the day, turns out they were exhausted from their trip this summer duty, that many people were essentially children of the movement that barbara johns helped to create. so the civil rights movement first had to get physically involved. it had to get people to put their bodies on the line.
and that it had to come up with really intelligent strategies for overcoming extremely long odds against them. thereafter vast majority -- vast minority and they had no minority to use power at the ballot box. what i try to exercise independent rights of the citizens, they were terrorized. they were thrown into jail, but of their home and jobs. in order to overcome they had the first but their bodies on the line. they had to come up with a smart strategic approach which bayard rustin was the leader for. and to talk about what else is needed, i need to tell you that a couple other figures who were at the mall that day. one was dc-based. daisy bates was one of the leading supporters and organizers and helpers for the li
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