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tv   Book Discussion on Disciples  CSPAN  December 21, 2015 6:43am-7:44am EST

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>> why would you be interested in an insurance policy wax those files often contain the blueprint of the buildings he insured. allied air forces have the blueprints particularly useful when they're trying to figure out how to bomb the structures.
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in november 1942 just after the allies invasion of north africa, dulles slipped into switzerland with orders from donovan to penetrate nazi germany. in burnie set up what amounted to a mini cia running espionage operations funding guerrilla missions in occupied france and italy and inundating washington with foreign policy advice. most of it unsolicited. they were not interested. for his step dulles recruited a handful of americans living in switzerland. one of them was married bankrupt, and american socialite who eventually became his mistress. he had scores of informants on his payroll. many of them turned out to be professional snitches who often passed the same sequence to the germans in the morning, british in the afternoon and to dulles in the evening. but dulles met them all. he did want to repeat the mistake you made in world war i
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with a blood related and had some sources. he recruited fritz kolbe, short, bald german foreign office diplomat with the big ears nbd eyes who delivered some 1000 secret nazi political military intelligence cables to dulles. called the first had the documents strapped around his leg when he sneaked into switzerland. dollars gave him a miniature camera sake of photographic material and hide the film in a watch base. another valuable source was a very stern major who had come to detest hitler. on his visits to burn, he would bury the dulles of the dissidents remain in germany who are laying plans to assassinate adolf hitler in what became known as the valkyrie plot details on july 20, 1944. remember tom cruise did a movie on belgrade dollars gave him the
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codename tiny jerk let's turn to bill casey. his birth in 1913 set a family record that his mother could have done without. he arrived waiting for staggering 14 pounds. the son of a new york tammany hall bureaucrat, casey was a bright child buddy drove the nuns at the catholic schools that's because he seemed determined to educate himself which he saw fit. he went to fordham university, first in a summit to go to college. then he went to catholic university of america and washington to be a social worker. he quickly became disenchanted with social work after serving in the new york social department for about six months. he thought welfare money was being wasted, and roosevelt was a bleeding heart liberal. casey earned a law degree going
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to night school, and by the time hitler invaded poland he was working as an analyst with research institute of america, which was a think tank in new york and washington, that advise businesses on how to land government contracts and roosevelt's new deal. after the united states entered the war, casey huson was married with a baby girl, wanted in on the action. he talked of the need into making an eight lieutenant general -- junior grade. it took some convincing. the navy didn't think he was officer material but they ended up finding a place for him in the ship buying program. board with pushing paper for the navy, casey noticed a number of wealthy young man were signing on with a secret organization that donovan had set out. he managed to wiggle an interview with donovan's recruiters that they also were not particularly impressed with this officer who didn't seem to have much military bearing. but they hired him and they quickly discovered that casey
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was a whiz at administration and from his research institute of america days you could analyze big chunks of information and write clear intelligence reports. so they packed him off to the oss, a very important one to the station to manage the flow of paperwork there. in short order casey had his hand in every major operation the station was running. he was like a human tornado. as one officer there said of him, you could not not pay attention to bill casey. donovan suis impressed with the 31 year-old navy lieutenant and in december 1944, he made cases chief of secret intelligence for europe and ordered him to infiltrate oss agents into the third reich. that was a daunting mission. even though it was losing the war by this time, nazi germany was to one of the world's most tightly run the police states. the average german citizen had
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up to 18 different basic identity documents that the oss unit had to forge. so casey who eventually 330 people working for him had to scramble. in the last five months of the war, he managed to parachute more than 150 agents into germany to radio back intelligence for the dancing allied armies. his spies had to improvise on the fly. for example, a kid and teen codename shofar enlisted the help of two french women working, forced to work in a library to brothel. the women would entice military secrets between the sheets from their customers while one of the oss agents hid in the closet with a flashlight taking notes. [laughter] bill colby, our next subject. he was born in 1920. he was an army brat. his father arose to the rank of colonel was something of a curmudgeon, not a particularly
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pleasanter to be around. colby spent his early years moving from one duty station to another. he wanted to fall in his father's footsteps and be an army officer id graduated from high school at a schedule at the age of 16. is your book at nick named him the brain and he was too young to enter west point. so we went to princeton like the dulles and was eventually commissioned an rotc speculative in august 1941 after he turned 21. bill colby like to quote napoleon's standing order for his troops. marched to the sound of the guns. but after pearl harbor it seemed to colby as he goes marching in the opposite direction, farther and farther away from the sound of the guns. he was put in the artillery branch and stuck in fort sill oklahoma teaching students how to fire howitzers. wendy's bodice the noticed that
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said the army when the volunteers were paratroopers in an airborne artillery unit. colby applied but he worried that his poor eyesight, he wore glasses, might disqualify him so he memorize the eye chart when the doctor wasn't in the room. of course, the dr. cullen but he figured colby's eyes were probably good enough to see the ground when he parachuted to it so he passed them. bad luck struck once more. on his second jump at fort benning, georgia, where he was training to be a paratrooper he broke his right ankle. by the time it healed and he finished what remained of his airborne training he was stuck in a replacement pool in north carolina. desperate to get to the sound of those guns. in mid-october 1943 he spotted another notice tacked to another bulletin board. this one from some strange organization he never heard of called the oss which it if you're a paratrooper and she spoke french, and colby spoke french, editor looking for
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adventure, call this number. so he called. by the end of the month uses at the congressional country club just outside of washington that the oss a takeover to train spies and saboteurs. the secret operation he was training for which was code-named jet byrd had been put together by the british to drop three-man commando teams into france just after d-day to organize resistance attacks against the nazis. on the congressional country club, colby any other oss recruits were packed offer more training at a remote camp in maryland's mountains near fdr's presidential retreat, which is now called camp david. their next stop was peterborough just north of london and a country estate called mildenhall where the british continue to train them in what became a multinational force mainly a british, french and american officers. this was even more rigorous
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guerrilla trainin training for d was somewhat of a culture clash between the american and the british commandos. for example, colby and the other americans have to learn the british wit a parachuting the british commandos jumped out of planes at altitudes as low as 500 feet, and the parachute did not come with a spare. in case the first one didn't work. at a low altitude you didn't have time to deploy us there anyway. the instructors told them if they shoot did not open, to bring it back and we will give you a new one. of course the americans didn't find that joke particularly funny. in august 1944 colby's three-man team dropped into the burgundy region southeast of paris to organize french resistance attacks as patton's third army approached. the secret war of they thought was complicated. colby's team had to deal with an assortment of resistance factions that were poorly trained and equipped, were each faction seem to have a private
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political agenda, and often squabble among themselves as much as if they thought the nazis. colby didn't know it at the time but one of the top resistance leaders he was working with, a man named roger board a, with secretly collaborating with the germans. atop spy catcher in france had recruited him to betray his country. after the third army passed through burgundy and colby's assignment into the next lead a norwegian american commando team that parachuted into frigid norway in march 1945. their mission which was code-named repay after local bars that changed colors with the seasons was to help keep some 300,000 german occupiers bottled up in norway so they could be transferred back to germany to fight the allied advance. this was a tough mission. colby's main end up fighting norway's brutal winter weather
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is much as they did the germans. half of his 30 man team never made it to norway because of the planes carrying them couldn't find the drop zone in the snow, or they crashed. colby's commandos did manage to blow up a bridge and destroyed a section of track on the nordland rail in which a caring german troops north to south, but the raids were very risky and the scheme was absolutely exhausting. colby zakim nicknamed one of the mountains they had the skill which escaped the nazi patrol benzedrine hill because practically all of the meta- pop sestinas for the artificial energy to get to its peak. finally, richard helms. he was born very two weeks after casey in 1913 but any similarity between the two boys stopped there. his grandfather was a famous international banker. his father was a alcoa executive who along with his mother suffered bouts of depression.
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family lived abroad where helms attended the pricey school in switzerland and later in germany. it was a cosmopolitan education that helms later thought was ideal for a spot. that colby became a big man on campus at williams college, but the phi beta kappa keep an harvard law school open to them if you wanted it. colby instead chose journalism. he hope to publish a newspaper one day. he signed on with the united press, and by 1935 he became one of the news agency's correspondent in berlin or adolf hitler was widely popular. his prized assignment came in september 1936 when he covered the annual nazi party congress in nuremberg. after the rally hitler invited helms at a half dozen other foreign correspondents to a lunch at nuremberg castle. helms was surprised to unremarkable the future looked to him.
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his eyes, edwin claimed, were hypnotic, were actually a dull slate blue pro-consumer from his head in helms that they were ordinary. his pace the white face was tensed slightly pink, gold filled his teeth, and when he talked to reporters his knees rocked back and forth, which helms thought was odd. but it was clear to helms after his lunch and conversation with hitler that the dictator was intent on going to war. after pearl harbor, helms joined the navy i was perfectly happy in the services new york office lauding merchant ships movement to avoid german u-boat packs come with out of the blue the oss summoned him to its washington headquarters in august 1943. don evans agency had sent a request to the navy for an officer spoke french and german who had lived overseas and to work as a reporter. and ibm computer in the navy's
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personal office put out helms' name. annexing helms nephews in a farmhouse in the countryside north of baltimore for two weeks for spy training. he learned how to build a cover story to hide his identity. how to pick locks and burglarized offices, how to blackmail foreign officials are secret, how to evade shattering by the gestapo agent. out of fight dirty with nicer pistols with a jagged edge of whiskey bottle in a market toward the end of the second week of training, as a field exercise helms was said that with just 18 dulles in his pocket to try to talk his way into a pittsburgh steel plant and of scotland with documents on the types of workers it manufactured the oss call these training exercises schemes. his palms sweating in his stomach all knotted up, helms managed to get himself into the plant. he scooped up handfuls of papers on unintended desk and he slipped past inattentive guards.
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now, two weeks was enough to make helms a sufficient spy pictures going out in the field, he would have gotten much more training. but it was enough for stepped up in the oss washington headquarters on navy s.e.a.l. waivers served in the planning group dreaming of operation for a was stationed abroad and then coordinated intelligence gathering on the germans. he had other odd jobs, too. donovan brought charles de gaulle's intelligence chief who was this unsavory french colonel to the united states for what amounted to a junket to butter him up. because he spoke french anti-been a newspaper man, helms was assigned to escort team for the colonel. the colonel and his aides with the very important mission of keeping the frenchman's visit out of american newspapers. for three weeks the military plane flew the frenchman helms any other escorts around the
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united states to see the sights. so they had an expensive night out at antoine's restaurant in new orleans. and hollywood studio executives arranged for high-priced call girls to entertain the colonel and his aides into hotel rooms. fortunately, for helms nothing ever got in the newspapers about this. he finally made it to london in january 1944 dashing 1945. he wrote with casey and he worked for him keeping an eye on the chill handlers. the spice network called joe's and the oss handlers were assigned to watch over them until they boarded the plane and headed over. after germany surrendered, helms
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and does move into war-torn berlin to set up a spy station. it's hard for us to imagine today just devastated, how chaotic, and how violent europe was just after germany surrendered. berlin was like the wild west when helms arrived. millions of homeless and starving souls filled with the city. billions of the flies buzzed over thousands of rotting corpses in the rubble. criminal gangs roamed the streets, many of them made up of young orphans. and soviet spies infested the western sector of the american company british and french occupy. helms and the other officers hunted for war criminals, tracked down artwork the nazis had stolen, helped round of the german scientist in an operation code-named paperclip and loo lod a nurse from the fuhrer bunker near the right chancellery who
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detailed forth in hitler's final days before his suicide. the targets of helms' spine so switch from the remnants of nazi germany to the soviets occupied east berlin. and under highly classified orders from donovan, helms any other operatives in the berlin station also spied the british and the french in their sectors as well. don evans assume assume the brid the french were spying on the americans and wanted to return the favor. helms, dulles, colby and casey all returned home from world war ii not emotionally drained or scarred from what the experience. you don't find any ptsd among these four men. instead, they returned to europe rather invigorated from the fight against nazism and ready for the next battle which was against communism. world war ii had a huge impact on their lives. toles ran the cia much as he did
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his oss station in berne. the oss top helms had to be a spot, after the war he decided that his intelligence collection was calling and not newspaper publishing. colby who wore a floppy fatigue hat from the war when he tended his garden got a law degree but quickly grew bored with being a lawyer, join the cia to fight communists as he had the nazis. when casey became cia director, he hung two pictures in his office at cia headquarters in langley. ronald reagan's and a photo op wild bill donovan, his mentor. to let me end it there. we can talk about, if you have questions we can talk about these four men and anything else they did during the war, legacy or anything else you've got on your mind. >> all these men were in the
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european theater and the oss had operations in -- [inaudible] >> the question is, the story is about their secret war in the european theater, what kind of operations the oss have indo pacific. shortage actually is, not much. -- short answer. douglas macarthur didn't think much of donovan's organization and only allowed a handful of people in. he was commander of the southwest pacific force, commander of the northwest pacific forces admiral nimitz, ditzy and used a bunch of spies in propaganda for what was natural and naval warfare donovan ended up having most of his operations in china and also the burma theater launching attacks against the japanese occupiers there. china the wisdom of the casework took them a long time to get into work so he spent a lot of time spying on changi chex
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operatives spies who spied on his men who were there. donovan at what point set up a phony newspaper in china and had newspapermen posing as spies to collecting intelligence and what chang was doing. it wasn't a very ethical thing to do. >> in berne, would you not have kept his operation a secret from the swiss government? >> the question is when toles was in berne did he have to keep his operation secret from the swiss government? the answer is no. not only did he not keep it secret from the swiss government, he didn't get it from the germans or anyone else. the reason was largely practical. when toles got into berne in the summer 1942 he didn't have three years to set up an undercover clandestine spy operation to infiltrate agents into germany
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or start collecting information. he had to hit the floor running. so both he and donovan decided that the germans will probably find that what you are doing anyway, so we practically on a shingle out of his apartment that says, you know, snitches and informants are welcome. now, as result of that he got a lot of gestapo agents trying to infiltrate his operation. the soviet intelligence service penetrated him, too. fortunately, the germans knew that he was some type of a special representative from fdr, and the reason they knew it, because they read in the newspaper. talus leaked the story that it comes as a special representative of fdr. they assumed he was just there collecting economic secrets and really the germans assumed
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anybody in any type of american diplomatic mission was a spy, didn't matter who they were so treated them all asked that. the result is that it was penetrated but it didn't produce that much. >> i was born in berlin in 1938 and i remember as a child in 1945 or 46 going to the zoo and the american soldiers were feeding the animals cigarettes. >> the question was occupied berlin at the zoo, that american soldiers were feeding the animals cigarettes. this is probably what remained of the animals there because of the heavy bombing by soviet artillery and american bombs a lot of the animals fled the garden is literally on fire. it was really horrific. wasn't much there left to smoke. but yeah, occupation troops kind
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of, there were problems on all sides. there was a-nil disease rates among american soldiers in berlin. there was a big problem with the black market allied forces. dulles had a big problem in his own oss station with some oss officers making a killing on swiss watches the mistake into the country and reselling them at inflated prices. in fact, had to clean out some of the pieces -- some of the people in the station. a lot of cases where there were gis committing crimes or anything were actually very often in kgb officers in gses committing the crimes to cast a bad light on the american occupiers. but there were still a problem. the russians dealt with their problems basically shooting anybody that got too far out of hand. but it was really a chaotic experience. the war did not end on may 8,
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9045. the killing did not end them to give millions and millions of displaced people moving around in europe. the places to violate. still a lot of death and still a lot of chaos in berlin. [inaudible] >> the question is did the list along with eisenhower. yes, he did. actually donovan got along with eisenhower, too. donovan didn't get along with a lot of american generals and admirals. because he tended to make end runs around them to get what he wanted which did make into popular. eisenhower saw a lot of value in what dulles was producing in switzerland. keep in mind, switzerland was really the american ally, their portal to germany. i mean, it was such a tightly controlled police state that was difficult to get agents in
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figure to look at germany through switzerland. and dulles came up with some very significant fines like fritz kolbe even though the pentagon at first thought he was a double agent. so did the british. i can appreciate what they were doing. >> how did dulles get along with his brother speak with the question is how did dulles get along with his brother, john foster. foster was cited a state, the ayes have it administration. is also a senior partner in sullivan & cromwell, the international law firm and he created -- recruited dulles to come to the law firm. in the family, foster was always kind of the number one, the leader of the kids, the siblings and dulles looked up to him. and dulles became eisenhower's cia director with a lot of help from foster who was the secretary of state.
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dulles deferred to foster in the eisenhower administration. he didn't overtly try to make the foreign policy, but he saw himself as a foreign policy instrument in the eisenhower administration. and, in fact, the a lot of people who thought dulles should've been secretary of state because foster was emma rose type of guy, not that much want to be around and dulles was a conservationist -- conversationalist. so people tended to like him, even when it's asking to do a lot of dirty things. so it's like any brothers relationship, but it made him very, very powerful in the eisenhower administration to have these two brothers controlling all the national security leavers.
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>> the store is interesting to do you know if he survived the war? >> tiny, who was a major who was part of a group of senior officers under their director, the admiral who also hated hitler, and secretly encouraged the dissident movement that led to the valkyrie plot. tiny was there in berlin when the plot was unfolding that they entailed. i'm not sure which one he was in the tom cruise ago but he was one of the guys. he managed to escape if you managed to get ou out before, surrounded of everybody else else and executed them right on the spot were scooped it up and tortured him and executed them later.
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tiny escape into berlin, rome oliver berlin for months. it was hard for him to hide out because he was so tall. he couldn't walk around on sidewalks. eventually dulles managed to get the london station to fabricate, to forge the identity documents time you would need to get out of germany and into switzerland, and that an agent slipped those identity documents to him including gestapo badge, passports, everything. he was able to climb aboard a train actually the senior gestapo delegation on a. he was hiding in plain sight, and make his way to berne, switzerland, where he finally hooked up with dulles, completely come emotionally exhausted. just destroyed a mentally but then he worked for dulles afterwards. [inaudible] >> the question is what was
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kennedys compounded kennedy's interaction our reliance on the cia change after the bay of pigs. there's a story that circulated around and has been reported in other books that after the bay of pigs kennedy want to break up the ca into a million pieces, and he fired dulles eventually over it. i mean, he i visited intelligence and the military, to because the military talked him into this as well with a very jaundiced eye afterwards. but he took the bullet. he didn't publicly blamed dulles. there was like a year interval before he fired him. and it's interesting, you remember in the famous kennedy press conference where he is admitting that bay of pigs thing and he talked about success having 100 fathers, and failure being an orphan.
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do you know what he got that line? it was from a manuscript from a foreign minister of italy come eventually executed by mussolini. dulles help to get printed in their. i don't think kennedy avenue where in the work that came from but i don't know how he even heard it. but anyway. a little factoid there. >> might not be in your research but i was one if any of these gentlemen were involved were unaware of the project that was going on breaking of the german code and did they have any role in it, or was it shared later on? >> good question. question is were any of these four subjects involved in culture, this is the program, the british program that broke the german military code.
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it was kind of an interesting relationship that not only did the senior people in the oss and donovan had with the british. the british gave donovan access to the raw files of ultra which are very, very helpful to him, particularly and building up these counter espionage service. ironically general george marshall, chief of staff of the army, would not give donovan access to the magic code-breaking. this was at the code-breaking capability of the japanese diplomatic and military tables. marshall worried that donovan couldn't keep a secret and it would leak out. so donovan in effect had a close relationship with the british intelligence service than he did with his own government during the war. ultra was particularly helpful, not necessary directly for dulles but for the people who were evaluating the intelligence
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dulles was producing and sending to washington. initially in the first months of his setting up of the station he had a batting average on intelligence. he passed along rumors and things that just were not true and everything. at one point donovan, one of his senior aides, said in a very pointed cable that said the measure is discounted 100% of everything you are sending us. fritz kolbe, the foreign office diplomat that brought in the real good stuff, what they would do was look at the ultra the tape come with her getting on all drug and compared to what cold it was telling them that was happening either in the foreign office of the military and they saw it matched up, edit wasn't until about six, seven months of cold the supply goes intelligence that went across a chicken with ultra that if i
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determine that colby wasn't the plan. he wasn't even chicken feed, that's intelligence term of useless information. ubb the enemy to ingratiate yourself within. they determine colby wasn't the real thing. it took the british a little longer to agree to that, but that's where ultra was helpful. >> you mentioned kobe was at camp mccall, had german pows arrived at their lobby with there? >> the question. the question was can't mccall north carolina work, pows there when colby was. i don't know when they get there. he was there in august, september going into early october 1943. he never mentioned any of that in his memoirs, and i never really found anything on it.
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he didn't particularly like the camp because he was stuck there in a replaceable and there were a lot of other people heading over to germany in airborne artillery units which turned out to be, he thought it was a ridiculous idea because when you drop a howitzer on the plane they had to drop them in nine different parts out of the plane because it's too heavy. when it landed in very blue they couldn't find all nine parts. to put the darn thing back together again. colby didn't see much hope for airborne artillery so we spent most of his time there can figure out how to get out of there. i doubt if even noticed that. i'm not sure if when the german pows got there. sat about. >> did they really? how about that. [laughter] that's interesting. >> dulles. >> the question is did dulles ever run across kenneth philby in what you?
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no, we didn't but he entered in the dulles story at a very critical point. what it was, as the war was getting near its end, dulles was conducting secret negotiations with an ss, that general in northern italy for the surrender of the northern german forces in italy your this was in advance of the overall surrender of allied troops. it and worked on it for a long time, very torturous, diplomatic negotiations he was doing in complete secrecy. the americans codenamed the operation sunrise. the british codenamed it crossword because dulles, i may because of churchill i was just and penetrable crossword puzzle. where colby fits into the picture, i mean work ill be fits into the picture was the
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russians were outraged when they start picking up word about the secret negotiations, the sunrise talk between dulles' station and the germans occupying northern italy. in fact stalin and roosevelt extend some of those hostile, mean-spirited letters that you guys ever did during the war over the sunrise talks. the russians thought that dulles, or negotiating a secret surrender so the german forces in northern italy would march on russia, which wasn't really the case, and the russians wanted to come in themselves. colby got his sunrise operation very, very secret. he even kept it secret from the british for a while, but the russians, turned out, were able to learn about sunrise through 10 of philby was eating a lot of
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information out of london on what was going on. i'm sure dulles, of course you didn't realize this until long after the war, with a kind of betrayal entailed. >> can you tell us anything about that dulles' brother and father in the overthrow -- >> the question is the involvement in the overthrow of the duly elected iran in the early '50s. just. they were involved. not only that, they were involved in the overthrow of the present of guatemala around that time also. both of which in the guatemala case ushered in decades of brutal military rule in that poor country. and, of course, in iran ushered in the shah of iran which after that came the ayatollah. swimming they were considered highly successful operations that have great historical ramifications. now, this wasn't a rogue operation by the dulles
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brothers. eisenhower was behind it and fully approved it. you talk about the assassination plot in of some of the other ones, castro and whatever which the cia tried and never really accomplished. these were things that eisenhower was fixated on. he was giving the green light on it. dulles have a habit of testing the edge of the envelope on his orders. he might trip over a little bit, but he was wildly popular in the '50s and this cover was on "time" magazine as america's superspy. [inaudible] >> i don't know about foster. i can see alan because as the aa deputy director at the cia during the truman administration
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under general smith within eisenhower's chief of staff. so he may have been under the weather lost her -- is getting the throat cut signed i think we have time for one other question. [inaudible] >> about the vietnam war, colby was -- >> the question is during the vietnam war, did kobe's involvement with the phoenix program. the phoenix program was a broad-based program linked with other pacification programs in vietnam that its intent was to build up hamlets and villages and weed out vietcong in south vietnam. it ended up with about 20,000 people killed. colby defended phoenix, said most of those deaths were almost all were combat casualties. that turned out an awful lot of
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the phoenix deaths were assassinations and tortures, and a lot of the operators that worked with phoenix under the cia can't even bill colby sent out memos saying we don't condone extrajudicial punishment or whatever, a lot of that was still going on. colby always defended his role in vietnam. he was proud of that. i mean, he thought that it was a travesty that the dm at brothers were overthrown in vietnam, and that we could have won the war and his family could have still been in power which probably nothing could'v could have beenr from the truth. well, thank you very much. i appreciate, this event a good audience. [applause] >> thank you so much for coming
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tonight. he will sign books at the table and we have them for sale at the counter. thank you. [inaudible conversations] >> abigail fillmore was the first first lady to work outside the home teaching in a private school. just excessive lobbied congress for on street the first white house library. mamie eisenhower's hairstyle and love can create fashion sensation. mamie pink was marketed as a color and stores sold clip ons to women eager to replicate are still. jacqueline kennedy was responsible for the grace of the white house historical association and nancy reagan as a young actress saw her name is taken on the blacklist a suspected common sympathizers in
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the late 1940s. she appealed to the screen actors guild that ronald reagan for help or chile became his wife. these stories and more are featured in c-span's book first ladies, presidential stories of the lives of 45 iconic american women. the book mixer great gift for the holidays. giving readers a look at the personal lives of every first lady in american history, stories of passing women and how their legacies resonate big share the stories of america's first ladies for the holidays. c-span's book is available as a hardcover or an e-book from your favorite bookstore or online bookseller but be sure to order your copy today. >> host: here is the book, "the only woman in the room: why science is still a boy's club." eileen pollack, what's the room you are referring to? >> guest: you know, for different when it'a


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