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tv   Book Discussion on The Butchers Trail  CSPAN  March 30, 2016 1:00am-1:54am EDT

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a modern container terminal 104 years later the will sustainable container company in the world. >>
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[inaudible conversations] if. [inaudible conversations]
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this evening we will hear about a pretty remarkable true story that hasn't really been told before when an author and journalist calls the world's most successful manhunt with 161 individuals in connection with the balkan conflicts of the '90s when the term
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ethnic cleansing emerged it was a euphemism for the wholesale slaughter to take place in the heart of europe for those responsible to be identified by the international criminal tribunal aspecial court created in 1993 ready united nations. the first-ever global court has ben established in engaging in and all 161 of those invited were captured or killed or had surrendered or committed suicide. now lot of manhunt was conducted in secret
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involving special forces from spy agencies even the tracking units from inside the tribunal itself but they have set to a precedent how authorities carrying justice with other crimes against humanity. as an experienced journalist has pieced together an amazing story with intelligence officials and diplomats and others to obtain access to files to uncover for the bbc and living in sarajevo and the return to the balkans
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currently world affairs editor and part of the team from the pulitzer for coverage of the edward snowden file. his book "the buther's trail" has received favorable reviews to have a vivid page turning account the new england journal of books says a fascinating tale that is difficult to put down. please join me to welcome julian borger daesh. [applause]
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>> thank-you to politics ambrose. in that publicity that is distinguished redeye when prematurely gray. they give you very much and from my publishers to take of lipa faith and realize fled they were taken and why are there so many names in the in -ic? but i was glad to see initially that at first but to take off after that but
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what the publisher said this says there is so much about the west with western intervention m perhaps it is all very complicated that it took four years to intervene and stop the killing. and it is my hope to break through that barrier of what is universal of internationalist humanitarian law. because those toughest problems of foreign policy then and now.
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co was in bosnia during the war in macaulay's you were there were astonished after the war with there were 64,000 troops and they didn't go after these people bin data point of avoiding in fact, but i kept tabs on it to see the rest gathered momentum in its in 2008 and i wrote up a thought it was
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striking here is the un mission and we went through it and took a lot of time and finally completed it. and with a short magazine story that occurred to me and became it is a much bigger story one of the vast and sprawling manhunts if you talk toolhouse intelligence and special forces people who are in the business more than likely there would have been involved one way or another. so it is buried under layers
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of secrecy with special forces but it was interrupted midway through by 9/11 but this man hunt would segue looking for those war criminals who went to afghanistan or iraq for the people who were involved in that man has and which to hotel hollywood to pick up in an egyptian to know a few days later to undergo to their respective countries to find it very hard to find out what happened since.
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but i did have an extraordinary story of the first operation specifically for the war tribes tribunal that was the pickup team a multinational team that would show the best the u.n. could be. a group to be a diplomat general and with a polish special forces unit.
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to lure one of the war criminals over they did so pretty much for the approval of their government. and then to open the floodgates and then they call that mission creep. after that it became in this was a bunch of you officials and with the u.s. and u.k. france and germany and
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netherlands. em pretty much at the same time in bin whether not been met to do this or if they created an operation that they would cancel that. with that of espionage and sex scandal and with the french major job that was down the road from sarajevo. the california became convinced and was given far
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more information. ed to complain about him to go to paris and be debriefed for the hierarchy to send them back. but maybe this wasn't an individual act but a form of protection end he might not want to stay out of that area. thank and then leaving sarajevo eventually because a young woman came into the police station this was
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presented to the french generals to be properly closed. but if this was something the end result with the military intelligence was power for the following years. end with the roughage techniques and then under
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the weight of guilt. and then to learn demand hunting techniques for:in a you have the germans for the first time in this manhunt can take a first casualties'. and finally the french crew are the most reluctant that turned out to be a real disaster with those kids who were traveling with them. and then to capture rather biggest prizes of all. so when everyone was shipped out to the big fish and have given the orders but they
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fled to serbia and croatia in the neck stage was putting the pressure in belgrade to do the hunting themselves and with that economic pressure. and there were only a restive and there was of fundamental political change. with those intelligence agencies i will read in the excerpt as with a friend of mine was finally arrested after the political changes. >> the self-declared
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republic in 2008 carved out of bosnia had mass executions in death camps in parts of the continent that left such abominations behind. they had expressions of horror and outrage but it has taken for years in which the west stretched to find that perpetrators but then with ethnic cleansing every day he was at liberty but the judgment of the killings.
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that pursuit was marked by blunders in the trails of the negotiation of of the drama in the long-running franco american by the american ambush that they always managed to avoid. this was the first-aid of affairs in early 2008 when out of the blue to abandon the fugitive one of the many german defenders that they list reing after four years of silence. the person using the same card in question was the younger brother and biggest offender. they blistering small-time
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businessmen preoccupied of defending itself of charges of killing himself and a drunk driving incident. but the voice on the other end was not familiar to the eavesdroppers. it was male and high-pitched. there were sent to look at the address but they discovered his name. to a somewhat eccentric old character all lived in a high-rise block named in honor of the first man in space in the shabby remains of the dream that is new belgrade. tied with the black bow perched on his hair. he made a living to offer
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cures and chronic diseases and in the world of alternative medicine with the regular column that part-time gig with the joint project aimed at rejuvenating the sperm. but that it would move faster if he put the hands of their facility. he seemed unlikely from his heritage to have shown little interest for his life style. so the officers dug deeper and the more they looked into though life the stranger he appeared. he came from a town halfway to the croatian border but there was one discrepancy.
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there was another with the exactly same date of birth and looked nothing like the other. of former construction worker. he barely strayed more than 5 miles from his birthplace in his entire life but the records show only one was born so one of the two was an impostor and didn't take sherlock holmes to determine which. there are other aspects of the kerry have fed dozen mobile phones campaigned against the tribunal and then to take a closer look.
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the officers returned with a startling suggestion this was not the mysterious link that was suspected if you shave the bearded remove the glasses that could begin himself. by this time word had reached him according to his lawyer the fugitive would start to slip by. the end game had begun he was running out of ponds to shield himself he was not prepared to wait. july 17 the surveillance team sounded the alarm as
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they would enter the apartment and it looks like he was getting ready to run. he left it a hat and a blue t-shirt he was weighed down with baggage and shopping basket and naps cats -- judge knapsack that was full. then he was discreetly joined by the trackers they boarded the bus bound for the suburb and his shadow, as the bus would of the members to the streets to be the better district district, the character in the last minutes of a
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long-running performance and the un hurried called contrasted with the activity triggered by this sudden departure from new belgrade. the the new chief set up a snatch plan to put in motion. a couple of patrol cars in policeman got out. to the front and two in the back. showing badges the young man was reaching when he felt the policeman's grip.
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are your superiors aware reword doing? >> yes. fully. >> officer ordered the driver to stop the bus. 9:30 p.m. on july 18 the flamboyant picture evaporated. in his place his ghost that haunted the balkans for a decade read materialized on the roadside as an old man clutching a white plastic bag. three years later he would become isolated by this time
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in his cousin's farmhouses and was the most ruthless of men with the moment of sentimentality there were following his son who went to the village and during this visit some of the grandchildren walked into the courtyard which as far as i knew were empty because all the cousins or elsewhere the grand children stood in the courtyard and then went to to figure out why they had done that. they raided the place is and
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he wanted to see his children. and then a few months later and then to be caught in the woods bringing to an end a 17 year manhunt. >> so the lessons are technical. with the special forces said everything that we have done in iraq and afghanistan we learned they learned how to use drones or integrate.
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but from my point of view and peace is never in during. those that waited for bosnia and resisted to talk of bed at large but dull whole idea of returning people to their homes was being sanitized. painfully they learn this lesson. so that had to be accompanied by some measure of justice.
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but my impression is since the manhunt by starting with the international co court that the legacy of the hague tribunal that it has been undermined but it can only function in africa. >> it is important but i think with the present situation if you think the enforcement of international law humanitarian law is expensive you should try in punitive. is in a way this situation of into the a commission on
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eight newest book if it had had any policy purpose to demonstrate and that forces me into international a humanitarian law but it has been done and it has worked. thank you. [applause] >> questions? >> what do you think of the situation in general?
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said it could happen again into spread. but they would strangle the peace within if you have the ethnic flag to deepen the divisions and that is contributed paralysis.
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but the main thing is but it was measurable for many but what is happened is denied by their neighbors they cannot talk about it. before they could talk about it to get along. it amazes me there isn't a bigger jihadist threat and isis tries very hard to have a high end production videos aimed at the region trying to recruit. i don't think europe will get away with that much
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longer. it may not be more like we saw in the mid-90s but it will be pretty. but this seems even to me now with his four great in with the success in you know, them better but then the last days in office and
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then one of the first things i did but it is about the adl of exceptionalism there must never tavis time but you will not and why should we take the risk? and then the price of exceptionalism in the
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prospects and that his crew with a congress that we have here right now. >> good to see you again. what are your thoughts on why it took so long to get the process running? we were there we saw that the guys were running around and it seemed maybe there was a method to the madness they wanted things to settle down but not immediately. >> it is hard now to go back
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to that military mindset before 9/11 after so much blood is spilled on largely pointless conflicts. remember how risk averse the military was back then in the '90s. it is said if you were a general on board the chance to get us star was minimal so as does he remember the forces that came in as part of the peacekeeping force. >> but after this pretty much.
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but the brits and the french , and none of them wanted to risk casualties for what was specifically mandated and they were there to keep the peace and it took year-and-a-half for the penny to drop. >> think. . . your presentation. looking at the perpetrators and the victims how did people respond to the mass hunting? '' was.
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>> they very much depended on who. i would say but they were there for a depressant civic the nationalist were against us and said the issue is thank you very much. but plus their record themselves but what changed but those responsible for
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the mass atrocities and to be seen as composite to find the guilty man. thank you very much. i look forward to reading your broke. >> but we were not smart enough to do what was then one year later. and it took whole institutional long time to figure out.
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getting a x coopers if he is there i will hand you that is 1.but the second is that but those readers from wall of the country's, there was
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not a political directive. the only thing i take exception to is the fact it isn't up to the generals but the government to tell the generals and we would all sacrifice our democracy in control if you put yourself in a position of bosnian or iraq or afghanistan where the generals are making political decisions. i don't excuse us for not being smarter brady think is a good idea to listen to the president of the united states. >> i absolutely agree from 96 absolutely no power at all.
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nothing to upset the reelection campaign. bin said this is what we ought to do. but the american are the rest of these. that doesn't come with there was internal and if we have the casualty's we will.
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>> we're very rich for it. >> thanks for your outstanding reporting from the balkans as well. i would say there is an informed view amongst some policy people index government people and human rights activist in this town and europe that the principal actors were given in some form of a community rather course of the day of negotiations. in day had received that.
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what have they done to that front? to make two distinct claims for richard holbrooke in red talking to each other and to make sure this happened. i doubt it. i can imagine a situation in which he intimated. but was never enough to commit himself. but at the end of the war they had to pile up and share data capture.
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and money changed hands with some arms weapons changed hands and it is quite possible that soft promises were made about the tribunal. and not to be but french officials told a french reporter of book that date understood but there were probably given knowing they had to be empty. >> this seems now that it
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was largely a disappointment have the courts then slow are not live up the effort but then the decisions that the court made and there has been some and now they have and then it will be glass half full and a story. to talk to the families because some of the worst
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but the system. >> it is completely flawed and is at odds with itself. but if it abolished you have to really invented. >> do you think there will be a similar manhunt one day for the syrian war criminals ? >> i really, really hope so. some of those people that were involved in this one so that one day maybe can find
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the people of daesh. they're smuggling it out documents to prove they're guilty to keep them in europe and go through them the first you need a tribunal and though world agree and then there is a case. >>.
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we were not used to rejections. and we did the right thing if somebody comes out. i had moments and but then there were people who take that view. >>
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[applause] copies of the booker available at the cash register. [inaudible conversations]
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splenectomy the head teaches us democrats and republicans are supposed to be at odds with each other inditing people need to recognize we need to be respectful towards each other is in understand senators are respectful towards each other and that is more conducive to get real policy done instead of acrimony. these people we see on television are real people. we saw president obama he had bags under his eyes and was tired and a real person dealing with real things. that was the most interesting.
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>> the journalists came to talk to us and the insight about vlsi source or the reporting back to a select for it to. >> ruth cater ginsberg was the most his racial person we met this week and has been one of my idols for a long time there would to be in the legal profession or possibly a senator. >> and vendors and bipartisanship but it is important they go to their state capital with the highest of the goal and deteed


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