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tv   Book Discussion on This Brave New World  CSPAN  June 11, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am EDT

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things that map in a campaign that show -- show who the person really is inside. one may not be enough so when people saw her caring about her when cameras were off and they put it together with the fact when she was ceo she shipped tins of thousands of jobs overseas and bs you know what, not a good person with a minute left with incredible career you've had and you witness the art of the tough so that people understand, and you can pass it on to others. ...
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>> >>. >> i hope so. >> thank you
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good evening is a beautiful evening things for joining us we're very excited to host this launch here in washington d.c. of the new book for this brave new world that is already getting excellent reviews in "the wall street journal" that should be the second thing you read after her book. but we are privileged tonight to joining in and and and conversation both her and steve are
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co-founders and principles at the gates group rand i will give you every sketch of their biographies because they're so well-known to was in this room a lawyer and former investment banker teaching at university and a portfolio for dippers and he was the undersecretary of state for political affairs and is on the board of advisers. and of course, serving as national security advisor and assistant secretary of defense rather than national security affairs and as chairman of the u.s. institute of peace. this book is really a wonderful piece of for
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coming at a time when business people are trying to determine precisely how to think of india and china of the global order and where these countries fit into it. so as behalf on all of us we're very honored to have the ability to host this conversation tonight so now i will turn it over to our authors of. [applause] >> the key very high cheney to begin to say i am a big fan of anja and her book that is extremely informative and a terrific read. congratulations. i want to start by asking why you decided to write a book for this book and and
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as you decide to do both banks were being really need to do this with me at all the friends i grew up in pakistan which was then not famous for been lauded but it was the base of that highway in to the disputed border of india is an area i have been interested in for a long time. i did lot of work at the state department now we do business in both of those places as they see that public discourse their so
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much about china and they come to guinness thenthey are the dragon in the economy is collapsing. these are the two countries that will have a dramatic impact on how we all live as americans. soto largest middle class's and i cannot even begin to solve the world's biggest problems and going from asia all the way to san princess go and then to get better
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relations just right. >> what is it that you learned and we spend all of our time in washington talking to government officials and business leaders. in to see and we spend some time in the slums a river in the iron huts with no plumbing or electricity and make their living by recycling materials with the trash heap that is three football fields i. that is not something i had
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been exposed to before the most interesting thing we all know there is a lot of poverty but india is much worse. still under the world bank poverty line that is $1 for defense cents per day. china has 84 million said the scale was much bigger battle so most of the port are working in factory jobs so in the way it is easier to help because you can give pensions and health benefits. and with some of the economy what will you do? introducing a new biometric id system which put some of these people on the books to give them an existence and
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into open almost 250 million new bank accounts that allows these people to be helped in a way they were not before. and i know you avoid the horserace analogy duly have a stake of called these countries succeed and whether they succeed? we do everyone them to succeed. and describe that in the opening of the book for this tuesday to visit. but there were two business dinners and the one was just
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comfortable but it was very formal and we were working hard to get relations just right. so i agree with you i don't think it should be about the horse race. we cannot have climate change without them or solve the problems without them and in spite of what we have heard from her presidential campaign our economy stowe succeed unless these to become the engines of growth >> china is the world's
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biggest with carbon dioxide and india is the fastest-growing. and obviously it affects what happens in those two countries in terms of the environment tall situation. is there something we can do together that could make some progress on these environmental issues? >> this is one of the most fertile opportunities for working together and i lay out a number of challenges on the way to great power status and dealing with them but is an enormous challenge. when you look around china you see 30 football fields in length and you see that
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china still needs to do this to grow and in india as the situation is worse. when i was on the ganges river to see bodies in the water and pilgrim's breeding next to them so it is dire. but this is one of the areas where we have done a good job across different administration is when i was in government to have a large part to negotiate the nuclear deal. that was about the strategic partnership about clean non polluting power from scale of electricity.
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and with those reactors they would build and with those admissions with the protocol and a similarly i really think what the obama administration did with the climate change accord helped to spur the rest of the world to announce their own binding commitments on admission that all three can work together. >> but with india's correction we don't hear a lot about that. one of the big complaints we had their so corrupt you cannot deal with that. that people are wondering
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how much is corruption? can you talk about the different approaches of indiana and china and the two political systems? >> and this is the perfect example cited is right about the indian story as a young state department official and dash a sad their end dash of the office as quickly as i can. it is the difficult problem just like in china. the tiny store a the way
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they deal with it is almost complete the top down and those that are investigated purely top down. and four or five years ago lot of citizens were finally fed up in he looks a little bit like gandhi started a hunger strike there were tens of thousands of people across india and with anti-corruption laws but the cynicism -- citizen activism is their cater those are perfect but if you look at those that have tackled corruption and have done a
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good job hong kong and south korea a little bit with you are seeing in china and india bin said of that is the massive program to teach him people this is not how you should be doing business but there was a rise in the civil servant's salary. those are additional that both india and china have to take to solve the problem. >> is set to rampant? >> that with this correction if there is a will there is a way. and dave turned around their systems said it is doable but requires a lot of sustained effort and a
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political effort. >> let's talk about china a remarkable crackdown in terms of human-rights of social media. en but they see is 180,000. >> can they keep a lid on society?
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and dad is speculating alas the second part in a minute. but as a start to dig into that it a book it was three different kinds of different with those protest with the run-of-the-mill people don't want to complicate or are worried about labor conditions who want a better environment it is daily issues. not political not for i want to be paid more. in some people who are always outsiders and the system. for those under on the house side and the third so when i
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go to china now to stanford when i speak to students there they have no memory of. >> host: square of the crackdown and active on social media and some of the things they say are crossover there is a guy at berkeley who studies would is trending on chinese social media you would be surprised what is out there with the people's congress is meeting in beijing you have whole uptick of whom were these people they don't represent me. i had a young government translator a few years ago
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when we alistair at the - - about this we all those social tweeting is monitored by switching to the other one the second part of the question will that implode? nobody predicted the fall of the soviet union's my life hazard to get here. there has been a lot of chatter recently and didn't pay to step down developing a call to personality and freddie his person with constant rumors nobody knew if they are true with the tens of the life with the anti-corruption's are.
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so if there is a change of government in china it is more likely it is in turmoil within the communist party and then consider that with a public uprising. >> that was not in the script. [laughter] there was u.s.-china dialogue that he has heard all the rumors about instability and security and that he doesn't really believe that. and then not to travel internationally but his you is there is a lot of river in the system but one of the challenges and i had a conversation with the senior
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advisor on an economic policy to gave me a hard time about the american political system the risk for the chinese for better or for worse than in times of violation and of course, the question for china is a few clampdown too much with the discontent we put the lid to tight then there is a problem. >> let me add one thought we talk about this with the media but it is not in
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anyone's interest to be a drastic rapid change of government with political turmoil over the financial markets to crash the world economy i don't think we should be hoping for that. >> something we have not talked about how about political stability in india at very different levels? any concerns about that? >> it is more like the american system of governance may not be perfect a lot of my indian friends are frustrated but it is a balance and in india they were fed up and they threw them out so now you
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have a government that is not able to move as quickly because there are interest groups within the central government but most importantly the states of india has so much power and is so important it is harder to achieve things quickly but much more resilience. >> so stable instability and china is unstable stability. >> okay. >> one last question then we will go to the audience. you say it is one of the worst democracies in which to be a woman. is that true and how does india and china compare? >> do think it is true i learned much more about this in my research for the book. is an india a lot of the
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laws of the books pretty decent anti-harassment was decent maternity leave and what you would expect is a lot better than the united states but however especially for the four segments of society they are not enforced sometimes ever auras well as they should be so untypical indian style people take things into their own hands for citizens to do something about it in one of the stories is as a gain of women who wear hot pink sari tens of thousands who have joined this across india and the end of villages if they knew a woman is being beaten by
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there has been for example, and the police don't do anything, they will go with a hot pink sari to beat up on the husband. [laughter] but if you compare india and china there is no comparison so the communist party is very good for women especially in the workforce with a 70 percent of chinese women work compared to 58 percent here were 25% in india. >> it isn't so much at the top of the political establishment but business rorer chinese women self-made millionaires than anywhere else on earth millions of chinese women run the company's. those are really big numbers >> questions from the
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audience? >> you have a microphone on its way to you. >> international stability operations association i'd like the logo on the book but to be more accurate those from india and china would be meshed together but we never talked about the relationship between india and china over the past three or four decades. >> a very good question and it has evolved a lot when i was in government a decade ago, the indians not to worry about china we have a similar histories the history to be oppressed by outside powers in china is a partner but that has changed now when you go to new delhi people are worried about what is happening with china and a very similar view to
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what you see in the west won the positive relationship we want a good economic relationship india has the same trade imbalance that we do that on the military side they are getting increasingly worried there are some skirmishes but if you look on you to there are videos of chinese and indian soldiers throwing punches at each other on the border of the high himalayas that is not settled when you talk to the indian military they're more worried about the number of chinese ports that are built around as a string of pearls and those that are increasingly active in the indian ocean so it is a huge turnaround from a decade ago >> over their.
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>> i would like to hear more about the asian centric population growth from what i have seen a project that population to decline by the end a century elsie have taken continuously in similar figures for japan the with the economic growth that bad debt is that you read the chinese press talking about nonconforming loans and defaults so faster is to run wind where does the asian century come from? and the demographics looking
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at 15 years out and buy 2030 china will have from 1. 4 billion people because just as you say because 70 percent india will be of working age so india has a huge opportunity for its demographics and you see them already adjusting to this and that ted percent is going up every year for the
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retirees and those with the economy built mostly on investment in manufacturing and now we need to move to a service economy and not an economist i have talked to whenever chinese some are very worried about it with the well respected chinese economist benny's to be worked out a special with the state and local municipalities to take on in china. end with what you're doing
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in the united states the absolute worst case scenario let's hope we don't get there but china has its own currency as hope we don't get there but by and large the consensus is it is a big problem but will slow the work itself out to not cause an enormous crash. >> i am us director for young professionals in the preface of my question had an opportunity to participate in a discussion to show that japan should more tightly partner if you only focus on the strategic
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military power to the anti-missile of the other important trends especially in the u.s. in the relationship. could you possibly discuss the political economic or cultural trends that with increasingly bring indiana and the u.s. together beyond this idea is never coming closer? with the rationale to put the relationship on the untenable path with the military countering of china >> i agree with the promise i think as much as possible have to incorporate china and everything that we're doing to is people are increasingly worried as for
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the u.s. and india in japan and australia one decade ago i don't think we would have considered that with the joint military exercises but now that is happening much more frequently and it is important even though they make it difficult to include china as much as possible and for other issues beyond military because by far that is the hardest to resolve. i teach at stanford now with kerry and one of the beings he said he is quite proud of is said he helped to persuade the pla that with the chinese sell sailors
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meet those of other nations they are allowed to speak which there were not previously allowed. not such a of a big deal but that makes it less likely and everyone is on the radio practicing their english. so i agree we need more that it is great to do more on the trilateral basis there is some dialogue like that and also with the australian and japan so we should do more. >> i with the board of directors with the eurasia center in eurasia business coalition talk about their dynamic involvement of
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investment banks for infrastructure on the new silk road can you talk if india's economic and governmental community is equally committed to or aware of the investments over the next 50 years to benefit indiana and south asia? because it is a web of infrastructure and investments. >> i think indiana is ambivalent about that issue for similar reasons that america is so on the one hand first of all, looking at it from china's perspective it makes perfect sense you need to get to a situation if you are china to move beyond having to bring all of your materials you need other ways to get
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things in and out of the country and asia needs a lot of infrastructure investment so that is positive that china is willing to make the rails faster because that benefits all of us but at the same time because of the largess of the one belt one road was announced $46 billion of infrastructure to pakistan not clear if all that will be invested but obviously that worries the indians and they are asking the chinese so that is happening not quite as much but increasingly to talk about chinese investment in indiana as well as a very positive development another thing is that china is
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willing to do a lot of the investments unilaterally through asia infrastructure investment whenever i see the ceo talking i think he is quite sincere he is very, very smart in talks about standards better as good or better of the world being with labor standards or environmental standards in a see this as you were leading hour foreign policy they want china to be a responsible stakeholder it is an example of china wanting to be in reach about combat and support that. >> i am from india so as
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they are far away from new delhi and others does your booklet get these as well should the u.s. and china would get these governments? >> yes. yes we should. when we help our clients as american companies to do business in india we often tell them it is an enormous country with very different standards with a very different ministers in states some on a very pro-growth platform and some of them not see your right we often tell people think about four or five other states rather than just going to new delhi.
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>> i am a grad student freedom of navigation and freedom of commerce is important to the interest of u.s. we demonstrated that over 220 years the south china sea is probably the most viable commercial ocean in the world with china's increasing assertiveness what advice would you give concerning how to maintain freedom of commerce? without provoking china to do something more pressing? to think any are smart enough to take the device? [laughter] >> i will give this to you because you have done so much work on this issue.
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>> the problem with this issue with the track of the dialogue someone said the united states is rated as a freedom of navigation issue in china from said as the sovereignty issue as have their neighbors and the problem with framing it that way he almost make it impossible to compromise because it was to go down in history to compromise with that strategy? so i think we have got to insist on international standards what we're doing in some sense when the standing is we failed to do this with the south china sea in trying to make up for lost time due it don't talk
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about it but it does need to be done and the second thing we need to do is a communication channel and conflict avoidance procedures in the civilian james c. don't have that situation where two countries are forced into a confrontation that neither wants but neither can afford. but to find a way of those sovereignty issues but they both the address these issues you need to leave them for future generations that is probably the right approach if it can get back to that will be difficult. >> you talk about a device for the next president one
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of the things america does not do very well is long-term subtle policy it is very hard especially in a year like this with the rhetoric going crazy but once we announced a policy we have to be very consistent about how we do it. we should have freedom of navigation of operations that not have them then have them again we didn't for a few years now we're back but the worst thing you can do is start and stop because i work on the riverside there would be confused with the lines are and we should be very clear to ratchet down the rhetoric. >> i would say one other thing their river as an incentive to beat strong on those territorial claims it doesn't want to open itself
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politically werke criticized but on the other hand, he lot of economic performance that he once and have good economic relations with us and the europeans and if there is a confrontation on the south china sea and those are aris so he has the tricky task that he does publish because of pressure but herecognizes the economic pressure and doesn't go too far or jeopardize the future it does require skillful diplomacy and that is in short supply during the election campaign.
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>> since you are based there i have to talk about technology policy and in particular internet governance and cybersecurity and what about not conducting espionage? >> i said to someone earlier river upstairs on the roof that i thought the technology companies' relationship with china in the business community used to be one of the up backbone's the you could rely on to make the relationship stronger but i just spoke at a conference of venture-capital firms and the sentiment is universally negative there very, very worried and frustrated with
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china is a fairness how they treat our companies in the way that the laws are enforced against western companies verses chinese-made up companies and there is no whole litany of complaints. the industrial espionage was number one that made it difficult for this community to support china it is taking a toll menominee companies that have personally suffered so the fact they came in september for the first time to read knowledgeably we will do something about this think those are all steps of the right direction we need a lot more dialogue i am not privy to behind-the-scenes in california by a understand the dialogue is continuing it is slow and
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painful and steady but that is what it takes so we should definitely continue the dialogue fidel so think this should be a wake-up call to china that the part of america that has been pro trade and open relations to making that work makes them frustrated with the relationship. >> we have time for about two more questions than you can have the last. >> i am with the department of defense you already talked up the security relationship between the united states and china but if these three states are defining the asia-pacific and beyond from the current
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security order with the u.s. allies and japan and thailand that are increasingly caught between the powers better greater with the with geopolitical wait. >> let me be clear i am advocating we change our alliance system is the 21st century where it's there are three superpowers we world -- will the world together that is unlikely but our current alliance system will continue largely the way it is i don't think we will enter into a formal alliance with india although the partnership is so much closer over the past decade including on the military cited think a formal alliance is not something india wants are what we would want so i don't
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foresee the enormous change with our asian alliance structure but i do think we need to think carefully especially in this election time if you have the trade war with china or god forbid a military confrontation do we want a new cold war or relationship that is more similar to what we had with the soviet union or something were certainly we have disagreements are national interests that diverge that we lower the rhetoric to solve problems as much as possible behind the scenes and reemphasize cooperation because that is in all of our interest to
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make sure that's this triangle gets along. >> i wasn't going to ask a question but i couldn't resist after hearing his great conversation i want to ask about the role of pakistan and the indians and chinese today because if this is happened in the recent past it would be more of a topic they would have thought about pakistan more often as an element of the competitive relationship also they would of thought about the relationship with china with the prism of pakistan and their strategic relationship with china said you cents it is retreating from the four front of policy makers mines or how do you see that fit in to the country you talk about
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today? >> we go to all the same dialogue. [laughter] i do think india is looking of strategically where they used to be preoccupied with their neighborhood or pakistan or china but now they see themselves as a global and he has been critical to shaping that to be much more prominent on the world stage so yes obviously pakistan will continue to shape india's banking because terrorism comes from pakistan nuclear weapons are concerned especially the new smaller ones but it is not predominant and more and more talking to indian government officials they want to talk about china and the world beyond asia and i think ed is positive we should work on.
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>> we have come to the end of our time thanks for sponsoring this great event thanks for coming. [applause]
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>> another but they did come out already? >> marching home is out in paperback the first by a brilliant historian detaining what happens when they come to the north and how they were forgotten the research is one-of-a-kind and it was so unusual we are very proud of the book. >> wendy warren there are a lot in america but she is the historian that has
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rewritten our 17th century and shows how oh slavery was linked to the founding of america the ships coming out of the new england harbor fought and all we're going to the west indies she showed many of the founding fathers that invested heavily in shipping his son was in barbados and not for tourism. >> i assume he was their checking out the land to be a crop producer and his john -- rather john kim over and she has written a major work >> shirley jackson? >> there is said huge renaissance one of the
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architects of the shin of horror quality the author of this biography says she is the heir apparent to open its magazine and she has traced this woman's life through her novels it predates feminine mystique and it is a stunning biography. >> why have we not heard of her? >> most have throw though lottery that is one of the most famous short stories written from 1948 but she was revived and suddenly and now she is all over the place. >> there is a novel coming out what is this. >> one of the hottest novels in the world coming out in september mostly as a graphic novelist but he has
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worked on this 20 years he lives a hermit existence in northampton in england and has written a story of life and faith and one family over 10 or 12 centuries it is like an epic it is getting crowds of people it could be one of the monster works of fiction in this year. >> it is called jerusalem it is 1200 pages. >> it is named after a poem by robert blake in the story why a of the mysteries of the universe and is a work of fiction will last 100 years also v for victory has watchman you will see an explosion. >> is about the city of jerusalem?
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>> it is about the underclass but it was written about the poor people of england in the 1600s their characters would remind you that it is a very ambitious and exciting book and i think it will explode. >> couple more books to share with you. >> i think a lot of people in your audience know with him. he has written in its third fourth century history of white houses starting in boston and even through today but has happened today he tells the story of america through the lighthouses the lighthouse keepers were and technology. it is a rigging book for anyone traveling hundreds
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around lake michigan you would not know where they are in america it tells of do a source and who doesn't like a lighthouse? >> one of the most pronounced war correspondents, she is everywhere there is great danger and it is all about what happened in syria it is vivid and remarkable to portray that is under siege and has been ruined. >> we have covered this author. >> this is the first major novel. it is based on years of
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research with any american history of the early 20th century. . .


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