tv Book Discussion on The World According to Star Wars CSPAN August 30, 2016 12:51am-1:56am EDT
spinnaker congratulations to t9 with his new book "the world according to star wars" -- t11. the professor of behavioral economics in the author of politically minded books with that background unity is surprised as anyone you would write a book after introducing the "star wars" series he began researching the series from a new perspective. from history and politics to behavioral politics and culture he discusses the eye
and your father moment that cast light on how it relates to politics and culture. and to provide compelling insights in your invited to ask questions and you can line up at the microphone for the following the program there is a book signing in the back to enjoy refreshments. completes complete your survey in leave them on the table. thanks for coming out and police will come cass sunstein. [applause] >> it is a complete thrill
to be here with the debut oft my discussion of my improbable book. if you told me one year-ago i would have a book on star wars i would tell you it is more likely i would become an opera singer laugh laugh and a likelihood is really low. to give you a hint of the origins, a friend at a dinner suggested herb little boy declan should be watching the first one but he is focused on baseball and baseball and baseball. batf them watching "star wars" is not a probable success but the friend suggested it with
earnestness and determination i thought it was polite to give it a try and he was completelyd riveted. so then i was obsess with the question how did george lucas come up with this and why was it the saga of our w time? cannot be to discuss those things but i will get added to in directly i improvising and the reason is when i was to meet -- dating my wife she had a job interview to ask what were my favorite recent movies i said what bill line that was an acceptable answer as it turned out. she asked was your favor is seen or more particular what was the busing?
i said it was the one where johnny cash, it is a real scene and goes into audition in the studio that made all this press leave davis and sings a song that ishat patrician old customary religious and sings with great confidence in clarity. and sam phillips says pretty good i have for that song thousand times everybody sings it like you. go home. says he did let me finish and he says if you had to sing one song if you were about to die if you were in a ditch which songs would you seem to show got what your life was like four or to show your soul? then he goes into folsom prison blues witches rough
about shedding amy and -- shutting a -- shooting a man . that is his soul. but in a very deep sense that is what he said.i said m and samantha answered how did you know that? which i think that was meant as a marriage proposal. so what you are about to if you have to sing one song this is my audible it is the selling your about to hear. the great george lucas every
day of their lives you can help somebody your be compassionate or treat somebody with dignity. but iota says in response to pleas for a difficult to see always in motion is the future to be co-author of several of the great "star c wars" movies said very recently the biggest in venture you could have making up your own life own lif ended is true for everybody. with infinite possibility. they say the same thing. speaking of infinite possibility and choice making arguably the best free rider in the last 50 years was in a very tough debate with george lucas the
genius behind "star wars" of return of the genocide and to give you and real-timee the content of the debate it is clash of the titans those who have a vested interest to make the movie work, they had ownership in the end lucas has the final say. say but i think you should kill to and have t14 takeovers remain you don't want to kill luke. >> then kill yoda laugh laugh i don't want to kill yoda your house to kill people view our product of the 1980's we don't go around killing people it is an ice. [laughter]
spin nikes' says i say has more emotional weight is someone you love is lost along the way the journey has more impact. >> i don't like at and i don't believe that. [laughter]precio those are precious words.. the reason they think they are precious. because lucas in is m motivated. he doesn't like it and does not believe it issn desperately -- disbelief is from his antipathy that somebody you love dies in a movie. i think with this wednesday argument by a knockout i don't like what he says and i don't believe that either. yoda does end up dying kind of.
lukas won the ark of the plot it is rich in the force awakens spoiler alert with the murder of han solo i thought i was the only one who knew the dialogue but decades later remember the debate very clearly the just a few months ago said i was always lobbying to kill somebody major because that gave gravitas to the story if every betty comes out fine then there was no danger. the with reverence and respect wrong choice after seeing his death one of my friends ash with the very front who gave the idb day laugh them so distraught spent tenfold minutes in the bathroom crying and came out to say i am done. i will not see any more ofd these movies.
but i have always hated that when you go along when one of the main characters in is killed. been now we talk about fathers and sons.ers and here is george flu guess he wants me to go into his business i said absolutely i will not do it t-cells office equipment in the store i will not go to work every day doing the same thing day in and day out. , now let's us reasonle together because the sense are like scarlett they should be as white as snow and as red as crimson. t6, my boy is eight doors evader fan and a book is
dedicated to him he just turned seven. pastor was born i had an acute sense that declan may feel a threat to and a loss. but within a few weeks after she came home i found myself singing a song to my little boy from the depth of my unconscious that was idiotic and offensive it had justst won an line that was seen over and over and was a combination of delight and certainty. daddies are four boys and mommies are for girls. that is terrible. [laughter] but i would sing it over and over again with search and see and delight.
t6 pretended to hate it and his response was to sing back daddies are for girls and mommies are four boys. i would respond by saying he must be tired and confusedd. using the wrong. did you get enough sleep?get enu he would come right back to say daddy must me working too hard use senior wrong did you get enough sleepar last night? whenever i came back from a business trip maybe 40 timesup. i would say this is amazing i was watching a news program in a hotel room than a commercial cable and andin there with these people and they started to sing daddies are for boys and mommies are for girls so it is true. he would answer all you were ghana was watching the baseball game and a
commercial cable and everybody starts to sing daddies are for girls and mommies are four boys you are confused r-utah i erred? laugh laugh he still pretense to dislike our song be he has always known what it is about you have the baby sister and your dad is here the meaning is simple now that i am here for you this good evidence that he gets this that whenever samantha and ally are late for dinner he sleeps on our bed per cluster to whistle the tune he is sound asleep t but every time he smiles. every single time. my daughter just turns for today she has heard the song countless times in two different versions.
countless sometimes she sings with the delight daddies are for girls and mommies are four boys sometimes studies are for boys and mommies are for girls. both are right to complementary in the contradictory. she is a smart kid and knows exactly what she's talking about. but westar's -- "star wars" says that daddies are four boys pointing to paternal love it has a lot to say about bowling to which people will go to get it. will o to every kid at some point
he is powerful and larger the deep voice at least one moment in a childhood potentially violent. for any child a dad is genocide and obi-wan gentle and call me and good and fader is fierce andin relentless. everyone is so combination but everyone seems to have access to the dark side with his immense power he seems capable.le lot. lucas was able to get a primal about fathers and sons. his own relationship withh his father was troubled torii then tortured in the always insisted that relationship was inspired by
the relationship george lucas, jr. and senior. went into going to the stationery business was pretty much devastated by all accounts the confrontations were turbulent and ended up the strange. let's pause over the term. even if it is temporary been there done that. to put it this way after the fact we had a big break for the basses father recalled i fought him i did not want to go into the movie business.
can't you feel the fire? no lightsaber day nobody lost a hand but every time you look for your father's approval movingly to say you only have to accomplish one thing in life every childnd wants to know who his parents really are to ever find out? but here is the pain and understanding and to seek to go from a leaked bloomer to being successful. to give one thing that every t parent wants to have your kid we safe in take care of yourself.
that is what he wanted and what he got. with return of the jet die, lucas left moviemaking for two decades the know why? he wanted to be a good father to dedicate himself to his kids just asked a few months ago on nationalal television who clearly wanted to listen something else he said what geekiness on your epitaph to say lukas responded without hesitation i was a great dad.cas the first to trilogies should be called the redemption of anakin skywalker that is due to intense attachment known as a love. as far as his descent to the
dark side of why he falls economic bear to lose his beloved his heart is what gets him into very deep trouble. >> whenever yoda says about y the evils of attachment 20 cannot bear is to see his son died in the end star wars insist you cannot be redeemed without attachment that is the strongest message of allowed counterpoint and that is what i think that is part of their deepest self. with pecan forgive the worst person in the galaxy in any paring can be forgiven that is a good lesson for gradual others.
i put it on my face book page something to say it is diffic day to make amends. and/or earned if it did not happen within two hours somebody saw that and it worked out. and what do creams is forgiveness only to the love of his children and the compassion of his childrenbelie and only with the mustard is to redeem himself. as a satanic figure the s embodiment of evil because they're not insist on seeing good and chooses to love him back. the redemption seen is preceded by a vicious cycle between father and son every
son once that allow. and is also terrified.he is bi but he trained to gain the upper hand losing his balance and knocked down the stairs. luke is ready to attack but to say at the last moment i will not fight you father he responds you were unwise and then threatens t14 but at that moment that luke will fall into a rage no question in emasculates him by cutting off his right hand the emperor says goodyear paid has made you powerful now fill your destiny the
anti-chief -- anti-choice word but he refuses to commit patricide in says i and a jet i like my father before me. fin the emperor almost kills loop then we have the redemption scene when vaguer when dash star theater rescues his son he says but i will die nothing can stop that now just for once let me look on you with my own eyes. he does that and anakin skywalker says leif leases and will not leave you now i will save you and he says you already have you were right about me tell your sister you were right those are his dying words. for a fairy tale that is good it is actually very good.
is great. here is a nice fit from the novelization. the boy was good and the boy had come from him so there must we good in him to. for the first time he loved him and for the first time laugh himself as well. the one reason we love other people they help us to love ourselves and he did that for anakin skywalker but the quality of the dialogue is an upset lukas knows this and has a spectacular visual -- visual imagination like an artist the most of the tiny motions are not his strong suit. [laughter] he enjoys editing but does not love working with people . in the pre-'' it is roy aids
and arnes and troy pays everywhere all the time harrison ford famously told him you can type the ships but you cannot say it. [laughter]r] he confesses he struggles with dialogue he says i think i am terrible right to. pdf i don't particularly like dialogue which is part of the problem in harrison ford remarked pretty recently george is not the best debt dealing with human situations to say the least. [laughter] that the crucial decisive moment of the original trilogy lucas delivers he was the best at dealing with that particular human situation and he knew what he was doing he did not trick anybody. lucas had a lot of sourceslucasa the major one was joseph campbell called the hero with a thousand faces that
religions are all based on the same tale the whole series tracks his accountmpbells but the notion of a fatherti sacrificing himself to repudiate the defining cause of the entire life and dying to save his son?er that is lucas that is original that tops i and your father but the pre-call -- underrated pre-quel laugh laugh their time is comingd thee the perils of attachment. with the words of anakin skywalker position is forbidden whiff yoda let go of fear and it cannot harm you he is wise. who give so consciously portrays a person turning evil because he could not let go and he is terrified of losing the people he g
loves so this is in the novel, despair is of the dark side it may be thein defining characteristic but the novel gets more politic and better even despair it is attachment it is a grip but the point is clear if your attache's someone youu are vulnerable but serenity is the best path flu committee fails as a jet die night because of his rage produced by a darth vader but anakin skywalker does fail he is desperate. so real self-conscious thisas pt but darth vader undoing is
that he loved to much but the sith get their reinvention par-3 because i anakin skywalker feared deaf of those he loves he chooses disastrously as a result ofof the fear and here lucas will borrow not just on the buddhism but with "return of the jedi" it is not by serenity and distance but because he cannot bear to see his son die so much the movie says he chose that.that. cns said being redeemed by fear of loss itself and not attachment so when he makes the redemptive choice perfectly continuous 100 percent with his earlier solid showing those very characteristics that led him
to the dark side but when liquid press the point of force is with him with a narrative that is the finest moment but the redemption of anakin skywalker transcends any individual's personal struggles but he created something that had nothing to do with the personal tale the theme is universal up your heart of a very complicated saga to deal with separation of powers but with the innocence and goodness that capacity for forgiveness in by the sheer power of faith and hope children redeem their parents to bring you up their past and every child knows deep in his heart that
any parent is likely to choose to risk his life tot save his child even if it means a contest with the emperor himself in when they make that choice the force will be right there with him per car like that and i believe it. [applause] so maybe you respected constitutional law or political commentary? [laughter] i am prepared to do that if you would like. >> gynecologist and here in the washington d.c. area i am very much enjoying your new book but would lead you
say you had any particular important experience throughout your life and career that was especially important to prepare you to write your new book and if so i am curious what those experiences were. >> thanks for that but when i was 18 baja and older gentleman who was as serious harassment was from another planet called alderon i had never heard that but it sounded important. [laughter] so we had adventures hee taught me how to use lasers laugh laugh. >> feel free to answer however you would like laugh laugh. >> thanks for that bled the immediate source of course,
it is children. so my daughter who is now in her 20s loved "star wars" and sheet taxidermy after the force awakens came out saying i burst into tears as soon as the music came on the first time we did notca see it together. that is something. the weather her clearly it was the focus but then my boy that is his thing and ith know that he sees his dad not huge little over 6-foot tall he sees me as a giant and compared to a four or five year-old any dad is but to see the movies through his eyes got to be. but deeper with my mother loved science fiction and
"star wars" my dad had interested in science fiction he was not the dark earth invader typo little bit of han solo a good flirtittf but he didn't have any violence in him. but here is something that got to me about "star wars." maybe somewhere between 1 million and 1 billion people have the feeling i am about to describe hope it is more 1 billion which is as the music, if you are with a member of your family it brings back the dead my parents were there not literally but finn my spirit they never got to meet my little boy villain in musico comes on they are there and that i am sure that
intergenerational connection that "star wars" breeds is extremely powerful so onepo reason my boy loves star wars is he saw it with me. now is completely level and right of dissent if you choose your least favorite person i hope you still love it the fact he saw that with his dad is a thing. of course, also knowing about separation of powerson ofe then to see the pre-quel which is not only to the perils of attachment to the separation of powers remember? this isn't a deeply emotional connection but nonetheless hats off to lucas to did not go to law school and understand separation of powers laugh laugh senate ask you 50
questions right now i will do a short one first. is pretty common knowledge harrison ford wanted han solo to die as early as empire strikes back so when you were talking about nobody wanted them to die but most of my friends did i cry? very much but we accepted that it was that ever something that came up that should we kill off the main character? and one other question i had a professor who photoshop empire weapons into the d-day invasion pitchers and
it was striking with the force awakens basically the third reich more so than in the original trilogy could you comment on the world war ii similarities question mike that is completelyd great in terms of harrison ford he made noises for reasons better unclear about is character to die are complete these i'm correct actors want allotted stuff laugh laugh he did one thing for which he deserves to be of every hall of fame that whenever he was like as a person who was a quick ticket to heaven because of the innovation on his part when t14 says i love you and his response in is i know.
that was his innovation complete the great. check that off he should die early? no. big mistake you are right there is the artistic case as a tremendous scriptwriter there's a tremendous case for han solo dying before i think that when be devastating before i don't know of that came up a rule and the narrative but as far as nazi, germany, who this very much was a student for of democracies in dictatorships and i found while researching the book a report of the german parliament surrendering power giving authority to hitler declared completely
be something out of "star wars" will tested its for p that to be limited to any particular historical democracy your catastrophe but when they say this is how liberty fails to thunderous applause that line by the way we rehearsed a list but anticipating this issue thunderous applause with hitler and pretend not that he is hitler but thunderous applause is onto something of how populist despair about malfunctioning
institutions can be preyed upon you are completely right abrams has a moreha explicit not teacher may reference if he actually said he did he was thinking of designing the plot with south america to plot reentry into global and political what would that look like? i think that helps that more explicit imagery. >> how do think it was possible the original trilogy could be so incredible and of pre-quel could be so awful views said a date you feel they are underrated so how did you feel about the force awakens wet. >> thank you for that pirko "citizen kane" was great and martin scorsese has made some might -- some great
movies with those italian movies but nonetheless the empire strikes back is the best movie ever made the one issue i am publicly disagree very sharply with the president of the united states is he was badly wrong to say that in new hope was the best that was the big blunder the second best movie of all time is a new hope. first to the empire strikes back then third is return of the jet i. citizen kane does not crack the top three.the number for is revenged of the of sith.
it is imperfect but the visuals with the volcano's's seen the mayor ring wear anakin skywalker says yes and luke says no was very precise so that is the fourth best but number five is the force awakens better than anything that scorsese did even though he is a genius but number six attack of the clones deeply underrated in today number seven is the phantom menace menc raging bull and chariots of fire but on the last three there is reasonable disagreement ious my head and now my heart to answer but i do think pre-quel are
underrated they don't have the inspiration of the first three but lukas said if i elect at my movies one thing that will define them is that effervescent geekiness that is in the first three not in us pre-quel. they do have scenes in revenge of the t3 that are good ideas think it is a good movie but the factmovie. there are grave departures of the innovations of anything we have done before and the dialogue he's says he is not that good that is sent to wrong.
with the force awakens there are two views of everyone who essene them has some of this the first is they did good with a really hard task to put in new cast of characters with the stand by and to make it work and move fast to be interesting with new mysteries is good that is a good movie. the other it is it is the reworking of a new hope it doesn't have fantastic imagination that lucas had certainly with the first three is an abrasion movie? no. is it good or excellent? how about the fifth best movie of all time?
[laughter] spin iq have alluded to this already but i think for most people there is extreme this house second acted to the old trilogy where that is a hard answer to say way they are the best movies but what is your thought for where feelings toward the introduction, of the new voices of how that could affect the allegories and those references in "star wars"? >> i am optimistic i think rey is a terrific character and clearly is the new luke and has a mystery and the acting ability and will not finish the sentence but she
is good the other new characters have a lot of promise but the mythologymytholg can be taken in new directions and they hinted at that there's a lot of mysteries to be mined and i expect they will do some things that our tricky and harmful so one thing that lucas got at is star theater runs away with the new hope when he is not on the screen h in return of the jet i he is the one that every kid wants to be on halloween who wants to be luke? he is supposed to be the hero why is that? i'm sorry flakes' said the
reason that milton wrote when he spoke of jesus and god and satan and how is he was a true poet and that the devils party without knowing it. he didn't quite believe that but the idea that satan runsco away with paradise lost because he has the energy of the dark side. star wars is a cartoon but lucas went there the dark side has seductive power darth vader is the most pow erotic maybe with the exception of princess t14 he has mystery and captivating
and he captures the narrative but yet he restores balance in theo force and is redeemed this was right he had goodness that the same time luik ours hero not coincidentally having the same name as george lucas twisty ernest farm boy goes dark when his sister in is threatened the novel is completely clear about this with the aesthetic theory and it is an phatic you can see it on the screen the dark side is very much with him. that is pretty good that it is in the best of us and to see the light is in the very worst of us that this s something with this thought
in a simple way that i think is devastatingly good. to see if the current crew gets at the same thing in a much more complicated way that is my prediction. >> given the academic circles in which you travelofesl what is the reaction to this book and how did people respond was a hard to give results permission to write something like this when there are other serious people? >> thanks. [laughter] i don't feel super proud walking around with the book is an academic institutions boo and was delivering a chapter of the book i am speaking
about a chapter at an ivy league university tomorrow. i have trepidation. if i were not doing a book that had footnotes that was unreadable that appears in september a redfield little like was taking a holiday from my day job. but i love to bring the book the most fun i ever had and i have consulted with the authorities of my home institution is this okay? will i get fired. [laughter] the reaction to my face has not been super dash. >> this may be a little unfair because your book is about star wars and not
"star trek" but i imperious people often divide into "star wars" or star trek fans do you have a theory is that in issue of laugh of methodology and finally know godfather movies were on your list? the results father-son thing going on there stupid godfather movies are fantastic so they belong on any list of 15 movies below the top seven. [laughter] like complete the agree the importance to honor those movies but star trek i love "star trek." before i did this book i would say i like star wars a lot and i love "star trek" now i love them both.
the advantage of "star wars"s" is that it has more visual wow with an ongoingas mythology that is captivating once you get into that even though it comes about tales of flash gordon what is this about? and "star trek" does not have that quality is less like paintings if in more like coke novel some of the best episodes were written by novelist and that showshat on one early "star trek" episode may be aeronaut hoping to get this degree of geekiness laugh laugh where kirk appears as to people
and one is himself but one is a little more passive one is a killer rapist? and the viewer can see the gentle good guy but then there is a killer and rapist that is what you are thinking but as the narrative develops each human being has both of those in him and if you don't have the aggressive out of control part of you you're not fully human if you cannot make decisions. en a way that is deeper than anything of star wars is hard to say that but put those in italics in alway. i think if you have a
literary sensibility "star trek" at its best will appeal to you if you have an artistic and mythic sense of ability star wars will get to you and if that dazzling special effects produce odd and wonder then you will not go crazy for "star trek" with the little dog be ship that is this big. >> i am just curious how you went about to organizing the book what was your thought process to put the chapters together or was this aly process with your editor? >> bell latter. and the inspiration for doing the book was learning that lucas and brightest and
he did not know that darth vader was the dad from the beginning that he was a minor character so they could not be father and son but there is every reason to believe that darth vader came up after a new hope if you look at it fresh it doesn't look like that idea the fact that they were siblings but he did know that all along that makes it kind of creepy with their relationship. [laughter] so the fact that he improvised i think that is what got to me because that is artistic creation the verse of connections and leaps fiction or nonfiction writers and happens with politics to thought same-sex
marriage reconstitution alright in 2016 as latest 2006 that was preposteroussteros and unthinkable and all of the developments really have that characteristic of that unforeseen ability the idea that our african american and president of the united states could not be possible the fact that donald trump so there is politics like that and i think in away that his life if you think about what brought you to this point in your life who love, your best friend, your career path you to improbably trace accidence and bursts to that the lucas would not go to film school
he had a friend who said go it is easy and he thought maybe i will try that. >> i know you're right about this little bit but feminism and "star wars" i have heard some strong arguments the movies have strong feminist moments that they are anti-feminist with both sides of the coin i am curious undertake and then you have studied all of the movies a lot more in depthly moe than most have so who do you think rey is? [laughter] >> i know who she is and if i told you there would be a draw on to kill me so i cannot tell you.te but in terms of feminism the
view that has foundation that is retrograde about the trilogy that there is only one female figure at a timethate of the tough guys are the guys that the yield to 20 the longer the better. [laughter] and then return of the genocide to be kind of naked and that was famous that is retrograde at all like that and it'll believe that so what i like and what i believe is princess t14 is undergoing a hero's journey equivalent to that is more dignified than luke's she is the strongest of the rebel characters and had the most clarity of fish and the and
worm bone up on his many hamilton books as possible and was recently and chile so i was reading a lot. >> i have a great reading list for the summer and one is the constitution. as my constituents are reading through we will have some fun with that working towards constitution day and thinking that is exciting and looking at those principles that this spring now the best in people and every once in awhile i
always say you need people i have been dead big fan of the books of the of leadership principles. that is a good one to read but fluke is on their that is the science behind that so i want to read that i think it is so interesting helpings happen. >> that would pour through a couple of good books. >> i have been reading me a
book called n stone if you are a michigan fan it is a great read. i also have a favorite that i go to frequently that is master of the senate miami history net time scheerer and that is if ever book. >> i am reading three books right now as then eclectic reader i am reading deadweight about the lusitania i just finished three felonies a day that is the book how policy makers can create a legal problems for some decisions that were unintended evade fabulous book like a policy maker like me to read and i am reading a book called the fine and.
bookstore in huntington new york spee5 here ready to yesterday did. thanks for coming yen yoururea patience if you've not purchased a copy there are some at the front counter. there is a camera crew to macy may be on camera wait until some begin should microphone then we will get you a microphone if you raise your hand at the