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tv   Grace and Justice on Death Row  CSPAN  January 22, 2017 5:00pm-5:56pm EST

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>> we had one little old radio in vietnam called the prc25 and because of the jungles and every you were lucky if it worked between you and the radio man three effect away. the army has been trying to build a new radio. the jitters and jammers and everything, still doesn't work. the last thing i'll rant and rate about it the boost. the army has a lab supposed to design all the boardlording bering ear. foot in vietnam is about as worthless as you could it. the metal plate in the bottom was posed to be booby traps bood the stick from going through through gibbet and didn't worth. and then made he boot heavy and hot. and then that the weep holes in the side so the water would flow
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out. except the were all clogged so the water never came out. and they haven't had a good boot since. they spends of -- what they don't do is in me planes -- youfully before you buy. you test it out. when they build this load are-bearing identify that design and it it don't work so they buy four more. i like the basics. a basic simple marine rifleman. give me a bayonet never needs sharpen, i'm in hog heaven. [applause] >> go ahead and clap. he's done a great job. i know at lo asit folks here and this brings back memories and you can see why it's such a great honor to be in the prones of someone like arnold. we miss working with you. for those who are just meeting
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him now you get a good taste to be in miss prepares and do his presence and why he has been successful there's one more question and then we'll stop and good and sign books. you're the last one. >> thank you, sir, my question is tap interesting your experience as a reserve officer and loots of experience on policy boards. do you foresee any changes with the mobilization authorities that allow us access to the guard. without the yearly declaration of national emergency the services are being going to be forced to use control mobilization. >> we have a reserving guard nat is an operational guard reserve, not a strategic reserve. to maintain that professor proficiency, and they're highly trained and battle testing you have to keep the readiness up
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and the need the funding. we can now use the title x re reserves in natural disaster. toes units have to be ready. so manies down to military readiness and that requires money. see the policy changes moving in the right direction. i do think that the guard reserve -- by the way, the national guard runs all of air defense for the entire united states of america, and runs all our missile defense. the navy reserve has got dream capabilities in the see seabees. the army reserve that army support. our mill can't go to war without the guard and reserve so we feed to make sure they're maintained at that level 0 readiness and when you have the natural disasters you don't know when they're going to pop up. i'm very optimistic and bullish about -- the laws have changed
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very favorably but that one on the national security, we need to make sure a certain level excels of guard and reserve. the other big problem this 32 duty stat tuesday and creates complications. i said least would, either/or or aren't on duty. the retrue 2011 said six and the pentagon said for over ten years, we'll change and have not changed it yet. so even when they're in favor of doing the right thing, it takes them a long time to get there but it is moving in the right direction. >> let's give arnold a big hand. [applause]
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[inaudible conversations] >> good evening, everywhere. -- everyone, want to take your seats. i'm candace and work with the store here and i want to welcome you. take this moment to silence your cell phones. we are have have an hour-long event there. half for the author and think the other half for questions. use the microphone when you have a question when we get to that portion of the event. c-span is here. we're recording. so that helps make for a more full recording.
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and before we have the signing, set this table, if you could just fold up your chairs and set them against a shelf, that would be helpful for movement and getting the star book in ordinary. >> impleaseed to welcome brian stolaz to discuss his book, the grace and justice of death row." this is the deep and intimate look into the story of alfred brian, an innocent man on death row. brian's intimate -- close work with this man on death row to get him exonerated. we have heard this tragic scenario time and time again, getting assistance on the death penalty, and the modern era and as well as the few developed nations that still practice it. a review of the back from greg
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melvin, a national correspondent, says grace and justice on death row isn't just about how a broken system almost broke another decent man. it's a moving store of a unique brotherhood that forms with a corporate lawyer literally services -- save's other man's life. his story will make you a better christian. brian stolz it a criminal defense attorney and has received award ford dedication to pro-bono service the highest honor awarded by catholic charities of washington in recognition for his work for the oppressed. a member of the criminal justice act felony panel in u.s. district court of the district of columbia and the district of maryland, and also a member of the aalumni council andboard of
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directors of the defender service. he liveness alexandria with his wife who is a former prosecutor, and their three children and this is his first book. please welcome brian. >> wow. thank you so much for those words. i almost can't believe i'm here. i love this place. i used to come here on dates with my wife, who is here, and i would dream of being a published author and i -- it happened. can retire right now. do you have any openings? i will at the you, in these uncertain times we're in, place like this is even more important because we all need a place we can all be free to speak about our ideas and beliefs and thoughts without fears. and so the freedom of speech and
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adem blue are alive -- assembly are live and well here. thank you to my family who came from new jersey, jerries strong. thank you so much. a long drive. my cousins, my lovely wife, anna, who is here with me on the dates. to my neighborhood friends the back, my man, thank you. representatives of the catholic charity. jim bishop. chris, i'm recorded to represent catholic charities at a lawyer and do a lot of -- probow know work. >> you're siding in the room with a legend. the deputy director of witness to innocent has been fighting
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the death penalty and the corrupt criminal justice system for decades and his group gathers honorees for advocate for the change of the criminal justice system. i am in awe of you, my man, and i love your become. thank you for being here. [applause] >> so, when i was third you're law student at catholic university, we were able to represent individuals charged with crimes, and my first client was charged with stealing a bike. i go to court, and i cross-examine the police officer, argue really forcefully, really, really fight hard and he is found get. go down to lockup and say, hey, map, sorry if fought harder you elm said, dope worry about it. stole the bike. but what what the said next, thank you, thank you for standing up for me. no one has ever done that before.
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and so that feeling was a shot right to my. the feeling chase every day when guy to court trying to represent a client. i was a public defender in brooklyn, where i defends thousands of defendants. the get to, the innocent, the misunderstood, the mentally ill, and i doped a good heater and can spot a criminal from a mile away and a very quick scan of this room says most of you are just fine. some i'm not sure yet but that both in the to death row in march of 2007. i went to ala time and i good a call from a senior partner about working on a death penalty case. go to death row north of houston, in texas. met alfred duane brown and i knew this map was innocent. like a shot to my heart. it's like when you meet your wife for the time you hold
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you're child the first line, and i walked out and threw upping right next to rental car. this was not brooklyn, this wasn't a bike. this was texas, and i flew out of houston and good some of the discussing airport chinese food that makes you sick and i got a tour that said you love challenge. here you go c-span, and assad, really errings is this challenge? when he book dame out within back to hewitt houston for the public release and i went back to the chinese place looking for closure from the fortune cookie inch movie yes, where bradley cooper plays me he gets a fortune that says you did good,
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awesome, justice its served. good job. mine said, pandas are cute. and a fact to who no one can deny but that wasn't exactly at the closure loop i was hoping for so here's the case. a very high profile double-murder in south houston. a botched robbery at a cash checking score. supposed to be $300,000. a the worker got cold feet and the crime went on as planned and the store clerk, who just had a baby, was murdered. and the officer who responded, officer charles clark, on the verbal of retournament, burdened as well ill say prayers to their families all the time. day was convicted of murdering officer clark. and it was a really quick trial. three days. i like to call it fastfood death penalty. i've tried civil case that took
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a week ask a guy went to jail for a month and ick toot three or four months. three days, guy, all it took. guilt was the forth gone conclusion from the jump. the was frustrated with his defense. he was at his girlfriend's apartment and got a phone call at the exact time the murder took place. he had a court appointed lawyer and they put on no evidence. not a single witness for the defense. and he was convicted and sentenced to death and i got the case on appeal, called habeas corpus. it's a dreary prison on a country road, north of houston. hated it. we pulled up to the gate in the sheriff would come out and inspect your, front, back, look in your pockets and you can say i'm a jokester and i tried to
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brings' light and i culled the hood open and say you -- i said can you check the oil for me? n't laugh. the next time i brought him some food bat the only good thing about that houston -- that little death row there was tack woe bell and i still local taco bell. you love it, too. i celebrated by eating taco bell. so i brought tacos to to at the sheriff and said here's some tacos he looked a my license and aid don't want your yankee tacos and threw them back in car. didn't like that. so i ate the tacos. the next time he checked my car and i said open your trunk. i said no; he said open your trunk, i said no and he began to show his weapon. was like, nope. he said why not? i said bus by guy is in the trunk and i'm breaking him out.
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and he looked at me like, really? i said, no. i can't break my guy out of death row jill. and finally smiled and i broke him and after that he called me the yankee lawyer but a -- affectionate, rather than mean. so i would be there on execution execution day, a day which sucked. i'd be there and the condemned would be ready to die. they shut the death row down sick that day because they ship them -- 1:00 that day because the ship hem. i would see family and pastors and lawyers running in and i'd be sick. i knew he was sick, too. i said, i prom mous, that will never be you. i promise you that will the be you. put i wasn't so sure i could make good on the promise. aside from taco bell the only other good thing food related
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was you could bring $20 in vending machine quarters to buy food for the. so i would good bring $20 in quarter, all the junk fooled he could eat, chicken nuggets, cheese burgers and we would eave things governing. i'd buy him and and i'd say, take your time. what ick do for -- what can i do for you? let sit. and that is when we began to form a brotherhood. when it trap tran scented. i knew his store. he was home. sometimes i would good just to see him and tell him there was one who loved him and cared for him and wanted nothing more than his freedom. the loved those visits because otherwise, he was in a cell, 23 hours a day and the now a cross
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closees wreckyard. he could touch cell from side to side and he said he could touch the ceiling flat-footed. think about that. didn't break him. he field me guys would hang themselves in death row. one guy -- there's children here. one guy took his open eyeball out and it's it. went welcome to death row. it's his other eyeball and ate it. back to death row. but he was a measure of peace and grace. so you think, we're on debt row. what is the case made of? significant evidence? no. never been a shred of science that connects day to the crime never well, no foreign sick no dna no gunshot residue no cis evidence, just witness identification and one person who it cometed the rob and i
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testified against duane for a light sentence. read the transcript and said where i thissed? what we dallas is good and investigate and talk to witnesses. we began to figure out something that was shocking to me. pressure and corruption by the district attorney's office and the police. one witness, who claimed she saw duane that morning, was over a football field away. stood there with her. i said, you could see him from there? she said, no. i cooperate couldn't see him. said why did you say so? she told me the following. i felt pressured and frightened. did not want to go to jail and lose the children. player to at the trial i was visited self time bit the detectives and kept telling me i could be arrested and lose my children if i kept saying i couldn't identify duane in the car. was like, my gosh. we're up against it here. and that began to happen in each
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witness that i talked to. the theme of pressure, intimidation, you better say this or i'll take your kids awayor house us vouch ever and make your life hell. nowhere was that more critical than with his girlfriend. day was living at his girlfriend's house and as i told you, he was home, made that phone call. his girlfriend, erica, testified that way the grand jury. gave him a complete alibi, yes, grand jury. when i left that morning he was there later that day he called my right at the time of the murders. if he was home at the time of the murders and the call, he could never have been there. and that it why thephone call was critical bit she was badger by the grand jury. the same kid threat. take your kids away and threatened by the d.a. late ever found out, brought here to a locked room and said if you don't give me what i want i'll make you a co-defendant and you'll get the needle.
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she held firm, he was home, she felled firm in the grand jury. the d.a., realizing he didn't have the case he wanted, decided to charge her with perjury. asked for a very high bail. pulled her out for four long months. talked to her later and she said i couldn't take it anymore. i chose my kids over duane and changed her story and said, he wasn't home when i left and he at any time make the phone call from my house. head and that, guys, this sum and expense of the -- substance substance substance of evidence that convict twain brown. we fouled out the grand jury, which you have heard is more in the public conscious with ferguson, baltimore and new york. the grand jury investigates a crime to see if there's not evidence to go forward with a charge. the grand jurors were badge at
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therring her. we found thought from the chronicle -- they not a pull -- pulitzer and i was the source for the work she at pull litter for finding the following, the grand jury jury venging a police officer shoot, the foreperson was an active duty belief. that shocked me. realize it i was up against something really big here in texas. one thief grand jurors had been 0 a grand jury six teams. the judge on the case would appoint a commissioner, usually a donor or friend, and then they'd grab their friend and go to grand jury. it's like us, want to go to grand jury? no offense to the people in the room about it was mostly old white people.
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i said how does this happen? because of lisa's work and because of the brown case that method of selecting grandjurors is abolished in texas. thank you, danny. now they picked like everybody else. they gate letter in male and sea show up. the best day of my life, when i married my lovely wife. i said that when she is here and when you're not here. trust me. every speech i say it every time. two, three, four, my kids, number five, the 1986 mets when they won the world series. and number six, day day's release. times it put him bump the mets. it's about the. grand jury system changing and not only die know that duane is free and that future defends will be treat more fayly fast
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are fairly in conclusion. duane has an iq of 69. no problem saying he has intellectual disabilitiesful you have an iq of 0 your executed. state expert hired by the state gave between an extra four points and said he was stressed out and anxious at the time of testifying. i'm not a daughter, barely smoother enough to be lawyer but now you can't somebody four points on the iq because they're stressed occupy. one benefit out working at a large law firm, we can hire and ited and they all said this is not cool. that doctor was fined $5,000 and he can't do death re-evaluations anymore there you go. to the judge granted a flu sentencing phase. that wasn't enough for me.
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i wanted the man out. his girlfriend was impossible to find. she was the critical witness. she said the truth initially. would into back to texas many i'ms and a tip where she lived. she would see me, slam the dispore i would go home. many, many times. one time we had a tip on her house if jump bid a trash dumpster on the front curb to see if a piece of mail has her name on it it did. she didn't show up. went back to d.c. incredibly depressing time because i knew she was critical and could back to the the story and -- then anthony grave, called me up and said, your guy is innocent. i was like, i know. saying it forever. please. he said, what you need me to do? i said good talk to girlfriend. and she did.
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and she told me, as the chose her kids over duane, that when she left work that morning he has and he head phone call from her house. so iten on the call are i.d., phone number, picked it up i went back to texas the houston district attorney's office with the evidence. all the recantations our team hat got and si said, hey, my guy is innocent. and he said this. feww. did that. all your yankee lawyers and law firms comedy come to texas and say these guys are innocent. we know better. thank you temporary much. i said you don't know me but i'll be back. like arnold arnold schwarzeneggi walked out but i within sure i could unring the bell. and the phone call, i thought about the phone call all the time. he kept tell melling i may that
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phone call from her house. so intoned the phone company, they didn't have and the d.a. and they didn't have. it was so angry and sat. would go down there and see him and be crying. i'd be cursing. i can't find that curse curse curse curse phone record from new jersey. you have to use curses to make it sound better. couldn't believe i couldn't find the damn phone record. and he would tell me, it's okay. i believe in you. thank you for standing up for me. like that guy with the bike. the man in solitary con finalment, the man who can up to his cell from here to here, gave me peace. gave me grace. the first name of the book, first word word of the book and i all feel encouraged when left there and in may of 2013 we received an e-mail from at the
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d.a. to the judge, one of my former:leagues and said the following: the officer in charge of the case has recently found a box of documents regarding this brun trial in his home garage. noding. you think you're watching a john gresham thriller but you're no. he said while spring cleaning his garage and we said, hey, send us what would was in there he said want to guess what is in there? phone record. thank you. politicss' proses. over all smart. one piece of paper. a single piece of paper. stuck in middle of the box, like a golden ticket shining out like at willy wonka. a piece of paper in a garage. you know what's worse? what was attached to it? a subpoena from the trial d.a., showing that he subpoenaed the
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phone company the day after erica testified in the grand jury been the call. trying to see if she was telling the truth. and guess what? she was. and here it is to prove it. now, encourage you to by my book, of course, because i'm her for a back inning and come look at this piece of paper. a single piece 0 of pear sapped a map's live. in a nondna case this was it. i still can't believe it when i give this speech that a piece of paper offend in a gram saved a map's life in texas and that how capricious and crazy thissing who this will is. what if there was a fire or flood or the wife said, hey, get rid of that crap in the garage. it would be gone. but be got it from a garage. so, my colleague called the d.a. and said remember that i'll be back? we're back. and to their credit they agreed
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a new trial without a hearing chits rare them jump said, her up can have new trial and this made my mad. after this in may of 2013 the court of criminal appeals which had to bless that, had to tell the trial court to have a new trial. waited 17 months to do it. zuo had a piece of paper but we late 1 months and i was me host depressed and angry i've ever been. opinions came out on wednesdays at the appellate court and every wednesday i would wake up like christmas morning and it would be damitt, and one do it is wag a background. it was joe brown. i said, how many browns in texas? every wednesday the same. no ruling. and then we realized something from the our people on the ground, that inside the court of appeals that had to bless this there was an election, november 4th, 2014, and we were told they would never grant
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a new trial during an election year. so 17 months of this man roz life. think of everything you have done in 17 months. was blend for an eelection. they won the election. the next day they franked the new trial. a transparent as can be. and then eight months later, in june of 2015, june 8th, june 8th of 2015, the d.a. agreed to dismiss the charge. and alfred duane brown walked out of death row. [applause] >> thank you. i'd like to say this is not a true crime story. it is a journey store. it's a love story. it's a brotherhood store. story. a story of what one person would
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do for another. we kill our kids never to give up and, which is somethingy do when somebody is watchle but i believed in him and i believed in his innocence, and he believed in me. i don't know why. okay. i promised i wouldn't cry but through did. fine. okay. one of those chapters about the struggle. as i was driving on a back road on my way to prison, i was again overcome with deep sense of pessimism about the case. a newly relee elected judge put is on the back burner. i felt the mountain was too big to climb. then came disvein intervention. tuned to a christian station and the melody of amazing grace came
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in the car, how sweet the sound, and i cried, and now i'm going to cry. i thought of my mother, who died of lung cancer in 2008. the said my mother asked them to save their prayers for her and to pray for dwayne brown as well. once got brian and met with duane my doubts were wiped away. his youthful innocence remind me i would was do is. the brought me something i had not had in a long time. peace. he gave me comfort and hope. i was immediately refocused and centered. i told him we would file a dna motion. didn't work. showed me three drawings of sports cars he traced from magazines. he had artistic talent. he talk about where he would go if he got out. go back to louisiana with his daughter, and told me he missed hear lot. thought about her every day. told him i'd buy him a house so
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he could be with her. became quiet, not quite crying. i stared at him and i put my face very close to the glass, my hadn't on it, and said, listen to me. i will get you out of here. i promise you. i know you didn't do it, man. he looked up, he had a very small smile, put his head back into his handed. kept my hand on the glass. he looked up and said, i didn't do it. i while put everything i love on, and i don't love much. he put his head down. cried and repeated my promise, told him to get his hand on the glass. he finally put his hand up to mine. we eased off the serious part of the conversation if bought hims' food. he told me a guy on the unit had made some hooch out of orange juice and peaches and butter scotch. i got drunk and hooted and hollered all night long.
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duane thought it was funny. we laughed like old friend. i felt his pain as a father so i went to see his daughter myself. met at the at the va where her mother leveled with two other kids one one with cerebral palsy. i let her pick out whatever she wanted she made sure she spot something for each of her siblings and mother. said to her i will do my best to bring your daddy back to you. she smiled and hug me tightly and ran off to to apartment so to the her sin lings the goodies. i was very emotional when i got home i had a very hard time sleeping bass i walk thinking about duane constantly. woke up and prayed and cried. my older daughter, ella, asked me right then. i told her i visited dwayne in prison. she asked me who duane was. say duane was put in time-out, something he didn't do. and she stated, daddy, that's
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not fair? i hugged her, told her i agreed, and i said i was going to try to get almost out of time-out but i would be very hard. i was going to keep trying. as we say in our house, never give up. ella drew a picture for me to take to duane, picture of a smiling sun. she said, daddy, you are brave. tell duane to be brave, too. so, i'm going to read the final chapter. you know how inenends doesn't mean you can't by the bike book. when i would go to hewitt i would have the angry mix on my i-pod. public enemy, bring the is no. death row, what a brother knows. rage against the machine. freedom in which that same anger is a gift and i would be so. ad up and angry on the way to houston.
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and then, i'd have to come home, and be a husband and a father and a friend. and i relied on david gray, the british singer who i loved dearly and who i sent the back to on a lark to see if he was read it. he was in concert at the lincoln theater and hi manager said he wants to meet you. i met him and signed my book. so, this is now new licky -- lucky book. this going the casket with me. here's the final: as if it were fate, anna and i have taken to say david gray in concert. soon after after duane would released. and we walked along the bridge that led to the amphitheater and saw a beautiful sunset. during the concerti felt like he was serenading me personally. i thank imfor i stretches and giving me the strange to work on days indicate.
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sang long and jumpedded around like a total fool. when i was done i looked up at the stairs and hoping dwayne was looking at the same ones. and i said, don't come down to nothing except love in the end. love and justice prevailed. my post duane's exoneration life had begun. thank you all. [applause] >> thank you all. there's apparently a question mic so hop up. >> okay. first of all, i know you're promoting your book but i want to thank you for being here. it's an hour to hear you speak. want to thank you even more for
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the book that you wrote, which is -- i can't say shocking but inspirational. >> thank you. >> and most of all, i want to thank you for what i consider the greatest thing that man can do, which of course is saving another man's life. and i hope after this session, you and i together can figure out a way that you can sign my kindle. [laughter] >> happy to. yeah, sure. that's a great question. thank you. the best question i've ever gotten. >> die have a question. >> thought you were up their say nice things about me, which is fine, too. >> my wife is blushing but she -- >> that's good. >> my question is, i would hope and expect that you have received nothing but praise for saving an innocent man from death. >> that was the question. >> no, my question -- bear with me. my question is, if you were
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working on timothy mcveigh's case, and my understanding is that you were his lawyer, at least at the sentencing part of the trial, and my recollection is that he wanted to die, would you have still argued that he should not be put to death? >> well, that's not where i expected that question to go but thank you. i will say first that i am the privileged one to have written miss this become but so many people worked on then case. i need to credit the law firm, casey kaplan chris tate, other people who worked really hard. wasn't just me. i'm the one lucky enough to write the book. i want to make sure you know it's not a one-manage show. it took a legion of people, over a million dollars in propro-bono fees, and experts.
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i just have everyone to thank goal or not. the constitution exists for a reason and i defend those people charged with crimes whether guilty or independent. he wanted to die, i would have advocated for him not to die. if that is what the law called for and the facts called for. lane know -- laneo has a better answer but i defend people, get to or innocent the same. you're going to ask me a question? >> i just -- have a lot of questions but i thought you were talking about the book and duane was wonderful. the thing is, that when you see him and duane together, it's not a client and attorney relationship. they're brothers. that's what you see. and it's all that love --
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>> that is actually a really good question. thank you. thank you. [applause] >> do you have a guess or an estimate or an approximation on how many people there are on death row that are possibly innocent or probably innocent? >> sure. so, that's a really good question. thank you. so, texas has a really bad record. they executed a map named cameron todd bollingham. convicted of arson at his home, murdering this children. later found to be innocent pot human mousily. a -- a lot of got that does. people who reveatch tis, e four percent of people innocent. people in know, it's more like ten percent. some weapon -- somewhere between
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four and ten percent. the tragedying not everyone has a champn. get a lot ouvertes and calls now -- of letters and calls now and my -- i can't do another book. it took could much out of me and people that too this for a living deserve my thanks and respect. there are a lot -- i'd say four to ten percent. texas had it lowest number of executions since 1996 this year. it was seven or eight. and the pew research study came out, less than 50% of americans agree with it. now, the recent election, got upheld in california, upheld in nebraska so the votes don't correlate with that but i believe we are at the end here. we have been really close to the end. if a democrat would have won the election but we'll have to wait a few decades. >> thank you. my father is in incarcerated but
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not for his independence and i hear a lot of interesting stories from the legal perspective. i have a question that is related perhaps more to current events. at you were talking about dishonesty from police officers and so forthissue can't help but think about what is happening today in standing rock and with the senseless and perpetual murder of black bodies and i wonder as a citizen and someone without our local expertise what sort of path forward is there to challenging police dishonesty, from your place as a professional and also people like myself who not in your shoes thank you for talking about your father eye. happy to send him a book. give him in hope. and your question is an excellent one. it's really topical.
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duane's life was a black life that did not matter. and he would have been executed and everything would hey been up in the weisser and everybody would have gone on thinking justice had been done itch find the general lance of the younger generation asia good thing, not standing up for this. want the documentary the 13th 13th to see the evolution of slavery to mass incarceration. and we can't stand for a this anymore. my advice to its advocate and support the groups who are doing the advocacy. the texas defender service, who sent me day's case. the aclu, the southern poverty center that don't stand up for this. the d.a. or the -- the cop who had this phone record in his possession, that's a moral hazard, right? i want to get this high profile conviction want this man to be executed. want to stand there with the victim's family and say i did
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justice for your phenomenally but oh, crap, i have something show she independent but he shelves it for -- doesn't shelf it or whatever the story is. still denope. all i know hips found. the point is to remain ever vigilant and you have to be village -- vigilant the next four years. give my best to your father. >> this will sound very simplistic. you mentioned the specifically that regardless of innocence or guilt, you do your utmost to defend your client. this is a very personal question, which holiday -- which is how you feel when somebody you know is guilty is acquitted. >> that my grandmother, who just passed away, asked me that same question. you probably didn't know that.
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my answer to her and my answer to you is, if the constitution was upheld and everybody did their job, and that happened, then that happened. all i can tell you is i fight the government every day to make sure they uphold their end of the constitutional bargain, and if i do the same thing, and that happens, then that's okay because the playing field was fair for all. that happens a lot less than you think. tell you that much. most clients of mine who are guilty of something, usually get convict of something and justice usually shakes out the right way as long as everybody plays fare and i found it's empty time as a public defend in brooklyn and by wife as a prosecutor, played fair every time. and the guilty go to jail and innocent walk and my job usually it's to humanize the person who did the offense but very seldom have i walk out thereof decourthouse can'ting a jig and saying, we got away with
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this one. don't think i've ever done that. so thank you. >> a real honor listening to you and the story is very moving. think there's two issues walk away with here. one is obviously the tremendous -- the greatest sin that can be committed on death row, the murder of an innocent man, and we can sit here and talk about death row and so forthbut mow importantly, there seemed to be probably thousands of people who get the 20, 30-year sentence and so i think the greater injustice is really what perhaps is maybe one of the roots here, this idea of quid pro quo. give you a lesser sentence if you testify against him and these back deals, and just seems to somebody who is not in law so wrong to make deal with someone and that was the cornstone over the case perhaps, owl these people who were threatened, the
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deal was a threatening one ago favorable and i that ever going to change? >> as to pointer point about giving cooperators deal. that doesn't change injust met somebody out the other day who testifying against summon someone wells. how it goes the intimidating and pressure is not cool and should have not been done and found at the time that tout through the diligence of our team butty system of people testifying against others, sigh loot in federal court, drug cases or gun cases cases where a mid-level guy testifieses against the big guy. 90% of federal cases end up in plea. think about that. 97, so few federal trials. a federal jump i was front of said she hasn't had a trial in years. his 97% of cases plead out but prosecutors ick say if grew trial'll ask for five years and take this deal i'll ask for two,
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miami say, i'll -- it takes three things, the heart, the stomach, and the wallet and if you have those, you'll be all right. if youer missing any our those you're miss taking the deal. >> and thank you very much. i've just come back from being outside the u.s., and live wig -- we have been marrieding for a long time put we live in different places. >> i understand. >> he's a lot to handle. but i've been getting more and more involved with what he is doing, and supporting a lot of his efforts, and one of the things that i'm curious to know a little bit about duane now, that he has walked free, because the thing that has stood out for me as i've got ton in the ex-ronees is the word ex-ron
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racing does not mean you're innocent because it means on the record you are still required to say you were arrested, committed for a felony, you can't find a job you don't have a clean record and i don't think a lot of people know that because they think innings e ex-ron racing means your -- eggs execs son racing. >> twin is exxon rated and innocent and i say it everywhere i go because the phone record showed he was. about understand your point which is -- now there's a book become hit. you can find a the records and he has had challenges, but what is beautiful about him is he -- when he walked out of prison he said i have no hate in my heart. he spoke words of love and empathy and even said can't trust everybody but you love everybody. that's how he lived his life
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every day. and my wife and i and my church, we have helped him out financially at times, we're still -- i'm sure one of you guys ask whether he will be paid. we're still fighting that battle but he is peaceful and i -- when we do speeches together i get all jacked up, as i did tonight and he just smooths me out and just a wonderful, amazing man. so the answer is it doing great. probably better than a lot of these ex-onees but he is still a young man. 34. a lo another love eye guys been in 20, 30 years. glen ford was exonerated in last. came out they gave him 20 decide and a bus fare. he died penniness and a charity bed of someone took 30 years of his life. that's not what happened here. >> point is this they
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independent but the system has not -- is not saying they're innocent. >> that true. and a lot of times that the case. >> that's really important for people to understand. >> if it follows him forever and now there's a book so it won't follow him but i hope is that peace continues continues and hs feet and happy. thank you. another one. all right. >> two more. did you buy him his house? >> that in book. you're right. not yet. the answer is. but there's no doubt about it. we are brothers fors for life. that's a picture-have matching scale's justice tattoos. i will show it to you. c-span toes rolling i'll tack my t-shirt off. he sent another our house, my
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wife and kid love him. they call him uncle duane. he is stuck with me forever and we'll make sure he is taken care of. but also pretty good at taking care of himself now, which i kind of beautiful. >> second of all, what do your experience within the justice system in concern's he just system handles people with mental illness not difficulty in terms of the police force not having proper skills in terms of dealing with them and also once then arrested and starting to be in the system, howl the system then judges or doesn't judge from there. >> that's one place in which our system does a terrible job. identifying and treating it. many people who don't deserve to me mr. principle. they'd need to be in mental hoveses duane says there's a lot of people on death row with ear serious mental illness and need treatment. i go back to traditional roots of punish: punish people for doing stuff but if they have an
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issue with drawings, mental health issues, let's try to fix them so they -- that's an children we're doing very poorly on and most times it's like, get them out of here. i find that a real failing. >> another one. >> last one. >> can you end with another really nice >> i think so. you deserve it. i would just assume that most people here not not read you into can and i would encourage everybody to read the acknowledgment because the last sentence where you mentioned duane brought tears to my eyes. >> thank you. i should brain you to all my -- bring you to all my speeches. >> for the royalties. >> done. that is a good thing. thank you. i'm glad it touched you. thank you. thank you all so much for being here. [applause]


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