>> the federal government is out of control. and then the most asked question i get as we teach, what is that? what do we do about it? if we have been teaching the constitution properly, for the last 150 years, we would know what to do. >> the author of several books include, essential stories for junior patriots, in defense of liberty, and sovereign duty. during our live three-hour conversation we'll take your phone calls, tweets and facebook questions. sunday, live from noon to 3:00 p.m. eastern. on book tv on c-span2. >> now a conversation with author desaur souza talking about his book "the big lie." this hays minutes. >> filmmaker, author, thank you

for stopping in today as he is on his book tour, discussing his book "the big lie. "i want to get your reaction to the news that they grand jury has been convened here and that subpoenas have been issued relating to the 2016 meeting between the president's son and a russian lawyer. what's your reaction? >> i think that this is a little bit of a frankenstein, rosenstein creation. the reason is not because there is necessarily any incriminating evidence itch don't object to looking at it. think that having been in d.c. and around d.c. since the '80s there's a logic to the independent counsel. the independent counsel is task with a mission. if he comes back and says there's nothing there in a sense he has failed so he views his success as getting somebody, locking them up, arresting

somebody. so there's a lodge logic here -- logic mere that makes the process not necessarily a search for truth but rather a way to vindicate the process. >> host: any concerns with this special counsel, bob mule center -- bob mule -- mueller? >> guest: at this level i'm a spectator of events. looks like he is stocking his team with people who are somewhat hostile to trump. now, by itself, in the investigative process that's not inherently bad but i think it may we bell that when you combine ideology with the inherent logic of a special prosecutor's agenda, it becomes a fact process. >> host: do you think the process is more stacked when you see bills introduced yesterday in the senate to shield the special counsel from being fired? >> guest: yes.

i think that once the process gets going it's harder to stop it because then it looks like you're trying cover something up. you have something to hide. as you know, in -- i've been through this judicial process myself, and for exceeding the campaign finance law. >> host: explain what happened. >> guest: what happened is gave $20,000 over the campaign finance limit to a friend of mine who was -- a college friend of running for the u.s. senate. i was naive about campaign finance. i could have given it through a pac but i had two friends give i reimburse them. that was the violation of the law and admit that. the process is perverse logic. this government chanksow with of with three thing that carry fivize but if you plead guilty right now then we'll do two of the charges. so the problem is whether or not you are guilty, you have a strong incentive to go along.

in other words to plead, even to something you didn't do. in my case the problem was more offer a selective prosecution issue but leaving that aside. i've seen the process work and it's not necessarily a search for truth or justice, measured in proportionality, it becomes a little bit -- victory is measured by what they can get out ofite in your case, what did you eventually get convicted of? sunny. >> guest: i got a series of penalties. the most serious was eight months in overnight confinement in a federal confinement center, and then i got a fine, i got five years of community service and probation and obviously it makes you a life-long felon. ordinarily i would say, all right. but when we looked into it there is no american who hasbroken prosecuted. let alone locked up. ... you think your previous

work was the reason why there was a special interest in you? guest: i think so. once i really stay 2016 movie attacks on thee movie appeared regularly on the on his personal website. shortly after the fbi comes calling. "the big latest book, v.a. lie," what is the story of this book? guest: the meta-story, the way that left is looking at child. since trump's election the big card is not the race card, it is the fascism card. the idea that trump is a fascist.

is sort of hitler >> trump is a demagogue who promised to make germany great again. so the reason it significant is there is some rhetoric to call bush a passes. both trump, thomas to say while he may have won this election he's illegitimate and beyond the bounds. therefore it would otherwise be unacceptable. let's not even go to the inauguration. let's try to amount some cool against trump. the stuff would normally be on acceptable. but, the people who do you think this is like fighting hitler in the 30s. anything is justified by any means necessary. >> we have a caller in the first section, can you define fascism? >> fascism and nazi and some are not the same.

hitler rarely, if ever called himself a fascist. was selena was the quintessential fascist. never identified with hitler national socialism. the main difference is that fashion is a doctrine of the state, powerful centralized state running the economy in your life, that's fascism. nazi's and ms. fascism placenta semitism. fascism in butte with a deep vein, that's a distinguishing feature. >> host: were taking your calls as we discuss this book and recent events of the past couple of days your with us for the next 35 minutes. you can call in will start with robert on the phone from clearwater, florida. good morning.

>> good morning, i'm retired military. i'm just appalled because i've watched you many times and fox all the time. infer you to say on the left, i'm a wounded warrior, for him to send the left dispute hatred, serve 24 years, i didn't see that many americans in the military may 23 years. but for him to get on television and continue to make money off the backs of all of the lives, especially this honorable, dignified man called barack obama, and continue to support this lawyer and chief we have an office who built his whole career of denigrating that

honorable man. he is the man who has created havoc on our country with his lies, with his racism, with all of this stuff he's doing now. do you know what? you do the same thing i see you on the hannity show i think it's how the debate breaks down a little bit and i were about obama and made a movie about obama. i went to hawaii, kenya, indonesia, i was at an obama family compound. i wanted to expose the fact that obama was not a traditional civil-rights guy. his perspective was anti- colonial, shaped by an international view of the world. this was an obama's own book.

there is a hypocrisy about obama say we are our brother's keeper. he was demanding that we make sacrifices for each other. i said wait a minute, here's obama's own brother living in a hot in nairobi. when you stretch your arms, you touch the walls. there's something odd about chancing the slogan, we are brothers keepers, here's his brother and he is done nothing to help him. i brought out facts about obama. a lot of people to make up their own line. obama and trump to migrate their opposites. >> host: when it comes to trump, you say play the nazi card stems from the election of donald trump. can one disagree with donald trump at not be a fascist? what tips it in your mind into fascism or nazism? i know you said those two terms are not the same. >> and talking about the guys

for example who wear masks and costumes and carry by clocks and bats as weapons. if i show up on campus is not surprising to have these dudes block me from speaking. it's not as if the campuses over representative with conservative viewpoints. young people today don't know what a conservative is what they want to conserve. yet if you try to squeeze that point of view, i live on tuesd tuesday, and yet they want to block me. this is a fascist tactic. yet, paradoxically it's carried out in the name of anti- fascism. i'm faulting those who justify extreme rhetoric and use it to legitimize otherwise unwarranted behavior. i'm not saying every democrat the hate speech monger. >> host: there line is open for republicans. >> caller: i think it's all obstructionism.

i think it's worth taken to the grandeur -- i think if they say it enough that people will not see the follow-up story and believe what they heard initially. i think a lot of it right now -- i want to ask you one question, i too am a windy combat veteran. you do not give that guy much time, but as a black person you let them go for as long as they want to go the most the time they say nothing. >> not true. we try to give everybody's much time as we can. we have a lot of colors that we need to get to. what question do you want task? >> caller: what i wanted task was, was that officer was he correct when he asked you those questions? >> guest: he's talking about the previous color. i think you're dealing with someone who's on one side of the

aisle. a political debate has become so divided that today if i publish a book i be happy to go talk to rachel on msnbc but i would never get invited. that's why it's nice that we are alternating calls. it's one of the few shows that you can talk to people on the other side. so, i thought it was a little strong but i'm not objecting to it. i agree with this color, i think with trump the left's point of view is they want to get him whether or not he didn't anything. let's say there's no underlying russia collusion but trump said there's nothing there, leave it alone, that's ridiculous. he's telling the truth. but by say mr. comey, he's obstructing justice. nixon obstructed justice but there is an underlying crime. there was knowledge. so, can there be obstruction with underlying crime?

>> caller: good morning. i'm afraid your guest poetic is a bridge too far. we have to go back to andrew jackson, obviously mr. trump has been friendly with american nazis, with the kkk, he doesn't know david duke but he seems to be unaware of the other trends in our society and what have you. i think you have to recognize that in all of his dealings which historically he doesn't pay subcontractors, he doesn't

recognize certain realities, there's nothing there with russia. will let them see if there's anything there with russia. yet paul manafort, all of these individuals who are lobbyists, you have flynn who is an unannounced lobbyist for turkey. all of these people who served on his cabinet are essentially millionaires and billionaires who have absolutely no experience in any of the areas i think mister. the energy when he was nominated didn't even know he was responsible for nuclear weapons. >> we got your point. >> try to zoom into a couple of key points. with regard to the business about racism and the ku klux klan, david duke he was an

outlier, no mainstream republican will embrace it. contrast with robert byrd, the mentor to hillary, obama and bill clinton went to the funeral still eulogize. he was a high official in the ku klux klan. i'm not quoting the progressive historian, the ku klux klan was quote for 30 years, the domestic terrorist arm of the democratic party. it was a delegate to the democratic national convention, the republican shut down the clan and woodrow wilson -- it was a. [inaudible] now will look at ragtag guys and said they endorsed trump because they don't have a job. and he wants to make america great again. no, the clan has mac shall history. the history is closely connected

to the history of the democratic party. i will leave it at that. >> one section from your book, you write the fascism card is used to intimidate conservatives and republicans for fear of it being branded. nancy is some is the ultimate form of hate and the ultimate hate crime. in this book i turn the tables and show that they, not chop by the real fascists. they use intimidation tactics to subscribe to a full blown fascist ideology. you said calling some of that is the ultimate hate crime. do you fear that you are then doing what you condemned democrats were? say they are the ones? >> i seem to be turning the tables. and i am, but not -- i don't use nazism and fascism as rhetorical javelins. most people use the term have no idea what it means or they're

referring to a vague definition that isn't right. for example, commonly said that trump is a fascist because he's a nationalist. and that makes him a fascist. i know that condi was a nationalist, mandela was a nationalist. churchill was a nationalist. the american founders. they were fascist, so nationalism does not equal fascism. so how do we get that wrong definition? because after world war ii when fascism and nazism was stained with the order of holocaust progressives coming to power in the academy, they knew what fascism was that they said fascism has been on the left, we need to move it in the right wing column so remember mussolini was a marxist. the leading socialist in italy. the national socialist party, so

hitler emphasizes socialism but today the left is taking it out because it's a whitewashing operation. >> host: elizabeth is on the line for democrats. >> caller: good morning. a few years ago i picked up a book and was called hitler's propaganda machine. they defined what the big lie is, i've seen it employed by the right leading up to this last election for the past 20 years for the one tells a lie that is so outrageous that no one would believe that you told a lie on purpose. and then, when that untruth is withdrawn the shadow of the lie remains.

and that is the playbook for the rights in this country and the conservatives. they try to demonize barack obama and, i live in san diego, you had a movie about president obama and doug manchester owned to the tribune during the election. there is a front-page article about your tiny movie bashing barack obama leading up to the election. that's what's causing problems in our country. >> first of all, the movie, 2016 obama's america is the second highest grossing political documentary of all time. it's behind only my kill moore's fahrenheit 9/11. he was in movie theaters run the country. it's almost like she's making

some of the same points you make at the beginning of your book about the big lie just from the other side. >> many people think that hitler invented this concept of the big lie and it's a description of hitler's propaganda. when hitler used the term, the big lie, he wasn't referring to himself. his point was that the jews are the ones who are perpetrating the big lie and what hitler was saying is that jews are evil, their wicked and trying to take over the world. they're willing to use force to achieve their objectives. but heather is doing his projection and taking stuff he actually did and blaming it on the jews. this is called transfer. you take your own sense and you project them onto others. and that's what the left does. the left has a long secret history of complicity with fascism. so fdr, he's an icon hero set

members of his -- to rome in the 30s to study i tell pashas in. he sought is more progressive than the new deal. he wanted to bring the ideas here and mussolini for his part was a huge fan. key reviews fdr's book and says this guys a fascist, so here's my point, this is history, it's indisputable in the record but not in the textbooks because the textbooks are written by progressives. >> player talk about today, zapping coordinated on some level by who? explain how this process? >> were not talking about a conspiracy. what were talking about is the way in which ideas take hold in the culture.

>> as i reflect on this book, how do people get to know something that isn't true? what happens is the idea circulates very typical in academia and then reverberates and is picked up by the media, steven spielberg makes it into a movie. the left is dominant in academia, hollywood, then the movies. it has microphones which it can create facts that upon scrutiny are not true. not that people having secret meetings, people on the same side of the aisle find it to be attractive, useful believable and they run with it. >> i heard an interview recently in which he said you're interested in not just getting into the documentary film spent feature films as well to challenge this. >> very often ideological messages are transmitted and so ideas come through romantic

comedies, they come through thrillers, common theme of movies is the businessman is the bad guy. the antibusiness sentiment isn't just argued in a rhetorical way, it's just shown in every movie any pretty much have the movie that if you have this this guys can be the villain. >> how far away from your romantic comedy? >> guest: i'm tipping my toe into the water. in the next two or three years of a putting on some feature films alongside documentaries. i'm trying to make a different kind of movie then the ones with all that hollywood typically makes. >> and then you're looking at making this book into a documentary? >> yes, because it's so cinnamon that a book is an argument, a movie is a story. i have to ask, does this lend itself to a story?

it has stuff that people don't even know. so becomes a story that is contemporary but has historical depth. >> let's go to kathleen. >> caller: good morning. i'm a black american woman and i voted democrat all my voting life except this last time, i voted for trial. trump to me is not an established politician. he's outside the establishment. that's why he's been attacked. they say the proof is in the pudding. the devil is always in the details. i live in the border state the city of los angeles, native from here. if you look at the neighborhoods that plaxo used to have in los angeles, we no longer have those neighborhoods. the biggest lie is that the democrats have benefited black

america. the democrats have destroyed black america. we no longer have her neighborhood, we have been overrun by other groups, illegal immigrants, black unemployment has always been in the double digits. so i can tell a black man college to the show as you can recognize them by their voice. all they do is character. >> how do you recognize someone's by their voice? >> i can recognize a black man's voice, black woman. it's deeper, the tone is steeper, and you can tell by the content of what they're saying. they are attacking trump. the biggest lie is that the democrats have benefited black america. the democrats have destroyed black america. >> thank you. >> first, i agree. i think i was reading a book

about slavery, the book about the slave plantation and the historian describes the features and he says they are ramshackle dwellings, broken families, a great deal of violence that is characteristic of the plantation and he talks about the fact that nobody can get ahead. you're stuck in life. ironically when i was reading this it struck me that not a lot has changed in the sense that if you walked into inner-city oakland, detroit, baltimore, the same features of the old plantation are still there. you still have broken families, to levitated dwellings. we send cops into these places and say fix it. the problems are deeper than that. i think the color saying, the democratic interest in blacks'

votes. but to get those votes you need a certain degree of dependency and that's unhealthy. >> jeffrey is a democrat, good morning. >> hello, i think there are a lot of people who misunderstand you. i'm not sure what products -- sometimes i wonder who. [inaudible] anyhow, you talk about a condition that you had, was that a jury of your faith? or was it something else? you talk about president obama and visiting kenya. i wonder how long president obama lived in kenya? this guy has -- it was brought

up by a mom and what if you would take kenya to see his brother, what hands -- if i put my hand in your house would it be hot? now. >> guest: number one, the first thing i'll make clears there's a tendency to think that people who do it they do or be in finance from somewhere. most of washington, d.c.'s finance because there's a lot of nonprofits and donors who contribute to various causes. i don't have a single donor. nobody gives me a dollar to do anything.

if i prospered and enjoyed the american dream, it's because i write books. with them in the stores, i give speeches and get paid for those. i make movies. that's a business. so, i'm not being funded by anybody. sometimes i wish i was. that's not the case. number two, my trial was not by jury. basically, the jury accuse me of exceeding the campaign finance law and then they said were going to accuse you a of making a false statement. they said it's the same thing. by encouraging us to believe the contribution was by someone else from you, you made a false statement. that carries five years in prison. so who is going to take the risk of going five years into prison and destroy your career? as a result they dropped the second charge. they put a second charge on in order to muscle you into pleading for the first one. no jury. there point, obama.

if you read dreams of my father, not dreams for my mother, and obama's book he talks about his trip to kenya. there is only one month long. in that book weather 100 pages focus on the kenya trip. . . went. clearly, something formative happened to obama in kenya. not surprisingly he had a lifelong obsession with the father who was not there. his trip was an effort to find that man. he was weeping at his grave, and this is all in obama's own words. caller: good morning. i knew the say history of the democratic party, but not in that much detail. dering if you have seen

the documentary "a wolf in sheep's clothing." if this often envied this in have where room fan mahal who saye le they infiltrated the education system. i was wondering if you have seen >> >> to give a eggs theobald -- to give an example law but to be identified lifted directly from america from the american and that is the example. >> but those who got

together in the room to write the nuremberg to said they were second-class citizens or with a the confiscation of jewish property so the nazis said we want to create the world's most racial state and then he said with a have to agree the united states have 40 done that in the south so all we need to do is take those jim crow lawst fo which forbid intermarriage between blacks and whiteswhit just take the were black write the word intuition we are ready to go. so this is in drawing the analogy or a parallel but the not see actually use that democratic blueprint b for jewish discrimination.

>> host: good morning on the independent line. >> caller:pend i don't disagree with you when you attack the left but here is my problem with the right isnger dangerous but that the kkk to be republicans and conservatives and in my opinion that is dangerous to say trump is an angel andel has done nothing wrong i that is that type of ideology because hillary is a crooki and should be in jailin mr. trump should talk more about that because the

country would go to civil war over the ideology. >> i don't say tromping is an angel. but the question i asked is the republican party has dominated poolsides going back to bob dole these are decent guys but yet romney was treated as a financial criminal but if we nominate somebody who was squeaky clean than his tactics somebody who knows to throw out to throw up -- throw a

punch at all know if jfkctic would have done obama as tactics that was a new low in america. >> host: the caller asked about the hypocrisyabout with te contributing editor one of the thingstouc she said the issue focuses on the book and you that democrats in their treatment of american indians for what eventually happened down the road with the genocide of american indians in the early 19th century because said in t earlier bookie denounces den that history to say there was no genocideve of the

american indian it is another lie of the left. now only littered withd unspeakable times. i want to give you a chance to respond.atal >> yes there is some new ones because accusing american of certain crimes genocide is one.geno so fake genocide is blamed on columbus so when the white man first came it isinen what he didn't know about so there was a massive transfer of diseasese wa such of genocide

requires the intent with columbus non genocide did to be that genocidal maniac? no he was not. but andrew jackson between those indians and he breaks the treaties with this eventdian like the trail of tears sopeop if you look at this simple definition of genocide the actual wiping out is that dispossession and relocationf th . but it does apply to ther jacksonian democrats.

and he said i love this. is so she completes those two things. s. so all along with mentioning the former president to play the porch read of jackson in the oval office. p >> this is why trump needs to read my book. because introjected is not rea somebody to get upset about. most of those are propaganda operations it is but you have all of this data with these consumers and then the

towering image of bill clinton. so i can see how trump going to that jackson library seems like a big mistake with taken off the bill thed this is one issue where andrew jackson was the bad guy. >> chattanooga led democratic line. >> caller: cell to help us wit out with a standard credit get republican and with that agendada of here in america and then to inform the

people that could be looked at with the opportunity thato is the dirty little secrets to offer those ideas so ifbo they are in the same boatat to help that situation out. >> that was a point made ofk a little bit earlier of how the to dave darr in the trump camp but think about that.

so on the left you have the umbrella of will take culture was someon with ethnic identity be proud of who you are. asians, whites? this takes the blame for what everybody else has suffereded? multiculturalism as an umbrella excludes whites.the the kkk and richard spence in the democratic camp. enc that all of these others are encouraged but there is a distinction between all other ethnic groups that drives those out of the democratic party. tru this is why because the

kinds of things that richard spencer believes but the reason he is not over there. >> the line for republicans go well ahead. >>. >> congratulations to mr. d'souza after careful decision making way he handled this situation..he the first caller you hadday today was a democrat and he i immediately came out with every side ofout to date paid 92 say something about his eastern indian heritage not to be a military that is typical tactics this has to do it with cbs news to focus on russia and trumpet you

mentioned about the media you will never be invited on msnbc for cnn so the media has a much power and influence. how can america take that and make it reasonably unbiased a straightforward presentation of information information?. >> there was a term meansrdin coordination. and of those portions of society into harmony independent it is a forced

with ruthless intensity. there are 2,000 because of the views were told they would never kno work again in that town. so they are still much more scared of those studio bosses. >> because of technology today in that would bypass the media.t to only have 30 friends on facebook so there are a countervailing forces. >> "the big lie" exposing the nazi roots of the american left" author dinesh d'souza thanks for stopping by. "washington journal"

continues. host: >> host: you may have seen we have hadvent jo the past for "washington