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tv   Samhita Mukhopadhyay and Kate Harding Nasty Women  CSPAN  October 28, 2017 10:30am-12:04pm EDT

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they didn't have very many users but those in new york and they didn't even think about doing that coming to visit their users here. they literally sat with them for hours on end and watch them use their products and they realized they didn't know how to post photos very well and they didn't know how to write listings in a way that made them appealing so they sat with them and help them merchandise their listing in a better way and dress them up and gussied them up and by doing that they saw their numbers double from a low base and that is what turned the numbers around. from there it was a long journey but that is what that's when the turning point hit. >> good evening. welcome. [applause] i'm say, vice president of public programs here at the new york public library.
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we are thrilled to celebrate the publication of this powerful moving an important anthology, nasty women: feminism, resistance and revolution in transamerica. we are incredibly honored to have anna holmes along with an all-star panel of brilliant contributors to the book on hand to lead us in conversation about the themes that explore, mainly how we got here, and how we move forward. it is very fitting to be holding this particular discussion here at the new york public library. this is a place that is steeped in history of feminist thought and action. it is where betty read and wrote the feminine mystiqu sitting ups and one of our reading rooms with the papers of emma goldman and virginia woolf are read and housed along with the suffrage association, the art activist group, the iconic feminist literary magazine and much much more. our archives even contain a
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fragment of the indication of the right of women written in mary opiates. we also, of course, a place for dialogue. for us as a new york public library programs like this one are an extension of our mission to provide our patrons, meaning you, the people of new york with access not only to great books research material and space to think and write but also a forum for discussion about the critical issues facing our communities, our cities and our world. we view our public programs and everything we do as steps on a lifelong educational journey. if you are person interested in feminism or activism or any of the subjects we're speaking of and touching on tonight or any of our programs, the library is your partner. we are here to help you learn more and gain deeper insight into the issues that matter to you. i encourage you to visit your local library. get a library card if you do not
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have one. check out a book or three or five or download are simply the app where you will find hundreds of thousands of books to download and read for free. or come back to this library or any of our research libraries and take a look at some of the items in our collection and draw inspiration from the work and struggles of our foremothers that are documented here. of course come back for future events. there's a list of upcoming ones in your handout. after the program the authors will be signing books. please, be sure to pick up a copy in all purchases here benefit the new york public library. now, it is my absolute pleasure to introduce to you anna holmes and the book editors bonita and kate. [applause]
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>> hello. before i start, i want to take a picture. i want to take a picture of the audience for nasty women because i feel like it's a good thing to have to see all of those who put out for you. hold on. i am very flattered to be here. i didn't contribute to the book i was supposed to but i have a job that was crazy and i couldn't do it and i didn't want to give them something that wasn't fantastic. i am here to moderate the discussion and i'm very excited about the book.
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i for small, we are going to talk to kate for 20 minutes and then we will bring out some other people, panelists, writers who are in the book and we will discuss more and more things having to do with last year's election in the way we are all feeling and then we will have a q&a at the end that will last about 20 minutes, as well. you should have gone cards when you walked in that you can fill out and put questions on those cards and it will be collected for the q&a and they will be brought up here and i will read some of them and we will get answers, as well. for those of you who are treating there are two hashtags. one of which is for the new york probably nypd events and specific to the book is nasty women live. without further do congratulations on the publication of the book. i realized when looking at the
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book and re- looking at the book the other day, i didn't know the origin story of it beyond the fact that there was an election last year that was incredibly painful for a lot of people. can you take us through that origin story? >> so, the night of the election i was running or working in a newsroom and i had written a 2000 word essay about the historic moment of hillary clinton becoming the first woman president. [laughter] and i filed it to my editor and i went to the center because i was like i don't have to do work tonight and we are good. obviously, we know that is not how that night went. i had to realize and at 1030 tarmac i had to go back to the newsroom and needed to rewrite everything that we had written. in my emotion it was very hard to write the essay in the first place because processing the
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last hundred years of american history and thinking about how many feminist writers in this country probably had the same essay that never got published the night and so i made a video about not publishing the essay where i am crying and kate saw that and -- >> i posted that on my facebook and we were talking about it. i had also done the same thing where i agreed to file something within three hours of the election results coming in for the guardian and i did the same thing. i rewrote all the paragraph that i thought was going in with the numbers of how much hillary would win by and ended up getting slapped in the face by reality and spending a couple of hours sobbing and staying up until 5:00 a.m. in the morning writing the piece. i was like yeah, think of all the feminist writers we know and we could totally do an anthology of the essays about hillary that we didn't get to publish and when we start talking more it sort of grew into let's talk about what feminism will look
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like under trump and here we are basically. >> have you looked at those that you are the night? >> i actually haven't. i was thinking about for no reason looking at it on the one-year anniversary but maybe i won't. i will e-mail you the date. >> i worked my into my essay for this because i don't like to waste things. a lot of what my essay about was i was living in ithaca, new york about an hour from seneca and would be too crazy to drive to rochester and go to susan b anthony's grave but i would go sit at the falls while at rate for the election balls to come in. my husband drove me up there and we stood in front of the wesleyan chapel and these women came up to me and i never met them before they are hugging me and we are all going it's
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happening, oh my god, is happy. they had planned this trip months before. then they drove home, sat up on the tv and was ready to watch the results come in and -- yeah, i left the whole bit about going to seneca falls in my essay but it's changed substantially. >> how did you go about and i'm curious about the title. maybe you can remind people why the title comes from. something he said in october a year ago. maybe you can give us that context and explain why you chose that is the title. >> in one of the debates hillary would say and make an offhand comment about your tax returns, if we see them, something like that and donald went such a nasty woman. we immediately and i was like well, there will be t-shirts of that by tomorrow and in fact, there were by midnight. and i ordered one by midnight.
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i missed the whole samantha be special edition one that came out later. yeah, we're looking for a title we weren't sure what we would call it and we were messing with a lot of titles that sounded more academic and i don't know who said it nasty women but we set obviously. >> when we were in the green room were talking about things written about the book so far and there was one piece in "the washington post" today in which the author, her critique was the writers in the book are too nice. was there something about choosing that title did you feel obliged to then fall with -- >> to be as nasty as possible -- >> sure, because when he said it could have meant a number of things. i interpreted as she was nasty
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and attitude but he also has a very well documented issue of talking about women as living, breathing organisms and thanks they are gross. so, yeah. sorry, anyway. >> i think the name we felt like kind of captured the historical moment and was a nice way to categorize the broader sense of resistance that is happening across feminism and yeah, i think one of the things we didn't want to do was have a set of tapes that were people being angry over the election and we reached out to a wide diversity of writers in terms of writing styles with people who are
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creative nonfiction writers and more personal essay and reported pieces and i think that does lead to a certain sense of more well thought out and it's not just as quick, nasty -- i still think the sentiment is there. i think the book is pretty angry, personally. >> there is some explicit anger and simmering him or but it's funny because you will see selena interviewed the two of us on sirius xm and emeritus essay she talks about we have to stop being polite. sometimes if you want to talk about revolution that has implications that go beyond [inaudible] and she literally said sometimes you have to throw a brick. i appreciate a lot of the review but some of us were played in some of us are talking bricks and that goes to what we were trying to do here with get as
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many different perspectives as possible so that as a whole, the message is feminism under trump is not going to just be one thing but a bunch of things who have this shared purpose. >> it is interesting to me because right after the election and in the months since when i talk to women that i know and maybe this is why they say this sort of stuff in front of me or to me they do express anger verbally about what has happened and what is happening then i think they do in their writing and the e-mails are different from the in person conversation and sometimes it's extreme enough that there are comments made about dispensing with men altogether and.
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[inaudible conversations] >> i'm glad that you looked. was there a through line or is there a through line in the book that anchors all of the pieces together besides the prompts to write them? is there something you noticed coming in and did you start to see things, themes, words, ideas, repeating themselves and if so, what were they? >> great question. beyond [inaudible] i think people really did take a lot of approaches but there were two things that came through. as a white woman, experiences, and a lot of us who are white writers and it was the first time we felt so viscerally just hated by our country by more than half and then we started talking to her friends were women of color and they said it must be nice to have gotten to
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his old as you are and never felt that before. [laughter] we've got an essay by mary catherine, a member of the cherokee nation, and she wrote this amazing piece that is basically like i'm part of his legacy of survival from andrew jackson and my people survived jackson and we will survive a trumpet. you got that perspective on it and you've also got a few of us who are like weight,. [laughter] you know. it's the voices are so different it's hard to say there is one thing going through except that we really did want to keep and we wanted it to be intersectional but we wanted gender to be at the center of it. >> i would say one of the things that got to meet was also something i was going there was frustration with the left. we really wanted to have a variety of perspectives within the last and i think interestingly some opinions really evolved as we were working with the authors on the
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other days -- >> authors opinions are smart. >> yeah, or they felt that only after inauguration day or after the women's march and alecia garza has an essay in the book it is one of the founders of black lights matter and she has a powerful essay about going to the women's march and wanting to be critical of it but getting there and realizing that the best thing to do in the moment was not to be critical and embrace this opportunity that all these new people were accessing more radical politics or and collier who a deep criticism and the criticisms of the women's march and we wanted to curate all of those even if they don't and so the book as a whole doesn't have one particular and this is how we will march together and it's more agitating all of these different questions that help us understand where each of us are coming from. >> why do you think there were
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so many criticisms of the women's march? it was a big thing and it meant a lot to a lot of people but and i realize it was a reaction to tom's election but i was surprised to see so much focus on it. >> on the criticism of it? >> yes. >> criticism in the book of it yet, we wanted to highlight those voices. you know, i think that however you feel about it for a presidential election to or for an inauguration to inspire the largest mass protests have ever seen in history in the united states is still profound and worth documenting but i also felt like it was important and kate can speak to this to have some of the voices that didn't feel as excited about it and that's the way. >> yeah, we were both very pro-
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hillary and i was at the women's march in dc and it was a profoundly moving experience for me but we knew that not everyone felt that way and wanted to make sure that we included those voices, as well and that we were not just trying to put our own brand of feminism or finding people who represented different identities but basically wanted hillary clinton to win and we wanted to truly get a snapshot of women on the left. >> yeah, and if i got that essay right now i think where the women's march is an organization is and where it is evolving and bringing up these new issues so they had a big controversy because they wished [inaudible] a happy birthday and they wondered what that had to do with feminism and i think the conversation that was happening around israel and palestine that for whatever reason took every op-ed in and that was the
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weirdest thing. you guys never cover feminism and now you care that linda is saying you guys have to [inaudible] it was so weird. we can kind of debate whether we think that is included or not but i do think since the march as an organization has had trouble figuring out what is identity and moving forward and they have continued to do actions but i do think yeah, in this moment i'd put together a thing of essays about what is next. >> what's next coming from the women's march organizers or what's next in general. >> are they continuing to build on the momentum. >> as part of what was amazing and important about the women's march is that so many women were coming together to have the set of organizers who become the face of the moment but then it was so clear that the people who came were so far beyond whatever vision the organizers necessarily had and it becomes a problem that we had a much
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smaller scale. you have all of these people who at some level identify feminists but have completely different backgrounds and different levels of engagement with feminist mold and leftist. so, it's hard to say if it is just one thing or the women's march is going to go down as just this one action or an ongoing movement. >> i will ask one more question and then will bring everyone else out. i just got a five minute warning. i have three questions. [laughter] trying to figure out which one i one asked the two of you only. the subtitle of the book is feminism, resistance, revolution in trumps america. i want you to tell me what the revolution you are referring to exactly as and if it has happened or if you are picking one in what form it might take or is taking. [laughter]
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>> honestly, that's a much harder and harder part of the title to live up to that nasty women. [inaudible conversations] [laughter] >> i think we are calling for a revolution. >> it goes back to what i was saying. it's aspirational but yeah, i would prefer that it not be bloodied but. [laughter] but it is. yes, exactly. we were talking about this yesterday and i was saying that you have these messages of hope, my people survived from mary but not all of us will survive and not all of us have watching what happened in puerto rico people, we are not all going to make it. that means for the first time in my lifetime and i am 42 we are
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talking about revolution and more of a real way than ever and it terrifies me still and i don't know what to make of that so i have the feminism part and the revolution is in question. >> we will bring out. [laughter] let's bring out the rest of the essayists and i will give you everyone's bio then. i'm assuming the most people here know kate and [inaudible] are. we will bring out meredith and cara and [inaudible]. [applause]
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>> hello, you know, it didn't happen if it isn't documented on social media. >> i will read people's files. to my far left is cara she is the executive editor of day magazine and an ses for critics who appeared in the new york magazine glamour, l, new york book review, village voice, the nation, the salon among many other publications and anthologies. she lives in new york. next to cara we have meredith. where is your bio is mercurial. [-left-square-bracket she has written numerous features, essays and opinion pieces for publications like the guardian, the atlantic, madame, the american prospect and many others. it says here you divide your time between new york and the philippines although district. >> i just got a full-time job so not anymore. >> to my immediate left is
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[inaudible], director of progressive programming were serious xm, satellite radio. she was formally the director of progressive media for hillary clinton's presidential campaign and hosted live political celebrity interviews for everyone and everything from the huffington post to cnn, as well. she is a prolific writer as well as being an activist, organizer and has written for the daily news, washington post, declare, cnn .com and she has a law degree by the way from rutgers law school and a ba in international relations from taft. to my direct right is kate harding who told me tonight that i was the one who got her on instagram or something. i thought this was -- >> it didn't take. >> she is the other of asking for it.
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she is a finalist for the 2016 book award in general nonfiction which is given lectures on rape culture and body image colleges around the country and in the spring of this year she was the distinguished visiting writer at cornell college and her bio says she is feminist and the stock. [applause] >> i wasn't sure if that was staying in the finished vision or not. [laughter] >> i mean, why not? [laughter] she's the writer editor and speaker and she is a former executive -- former executive editor of the award-winning blog feminist thing .com. she's also the author
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a lot of days i am like that. i have to myself up to get there but i have days where i am
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inspired. >> kate. >> yeah, i see it more as being everything that as women we are socialized to be good and to be demure and deferential and to not make fun of donald trump and that sort of thing. that is how it came about. certainly back. just to be the opposite of that where it comes down to where you don't give a [bleep] about it but it is rejecting the training. >> indoctrination. >> i i am the daughter of two pastors i was taught how to sit and how to always be poised and i use that to my advantage but in other situations i know how to get a message across and to be opinionated and i was always told that being opinionated was a bad thing growing up and so now i express my opinion in
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public as a profession so i think that is what is being nasty is being unapologetic and confident in what you believe and expressing it out loud and trying to convince other people to agree with you. [applause] meredith. >> i am tran so i went through this period of it is interesting this trajectory because you do not grow up with the socialization and then it is and if you want to be a member of the club then i overcompensated for a little while. the pendulum swung.
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especially as someone who has been both and i did it in my brain didn't atrophied because i transitioned. it actually got better. see mike being the last person i feel like everybody touched on different ways i feel like in terms of how the orange
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menace has to find it. i think we are all versions of his worst nightmare. i can seem to be more of a nasty woman in a sense that i'm the kind of person that likes to make connections with people and find a middle ground but i'm very opinionated i live the life that i want to be living have a son we adopted together. we would fight to the death for him. my belief system is definitely out there. i'm secular. culturally jewish it doesn't matter what my belief system is everybody that knows me knows what my opinions are. i evolve but i think by that
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definition of nasty one for a living other people's feminist opinions and i love that. i am proud of that. in that sense and very absurd of like everybody here. by their definition and my mind i think i'm pretty nasty. select i was thinking about how i answered some of the questions to me. as to what people in this stage are now saying. it felt a little bit the ability to say that i'm all of those things opinionated is actually a privilege.
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it's not just it is also a set of circumstances that you are in and that allow you to to be nasty. to be that person. one thing you said earlier was that after the election you felt that you had been realizing how messed up for the world was with regard to gender politics and other things as well. a lot of women of color i like where had you been all this time. is that a fair assessment. i would adjust in terms of what i actually fell at the time.
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i was committed to anti- racist principles before this happened. so i understood that things were really messed up and also as a feminist who have been living in public on the internet for a long time i have dealt with the out rate coming at me. i knew how deeply racist and homophobic they were it was two things for me on election night. one was just a man i didn't think we have more than 51% on our side but i thought we head at least 51 percent. that got punched i can go out there in the next morning living in central new york we went to breakfast and i just sat there and thought everybody around me probably voted for trump.
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as a glitch i grew up with. there are people here that look like me. that was just completely exploited. were you surprised at his win because i guess what i would say is i'm not sure kate is a white person has a monopoly on feeling shocked at what this country really is. as a woman of color they would not had put it there. that was what we were saying the day of the election. we arrived really early at the java center.
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i think now it seems so pressing it. when i was walking to the job center. i saw my colleague and she have her hillary shirt on. and were so excited that it's finally the last day. the number of days it is because your or review like that all the time. we are walking into the java center and we walk to the wrong side so we have to go all the way back around and we walked past us crew this crew of construction workers and a man yelled out he sent are you guys with hillary he said that really aggressively. and then when it started to turn around 10:00 at night we thought back to the morning we were like those are the people
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that voted for trump. we were shocked. when the russian hack was happening were soak in when don't worry it will be fine we were shocked. i didn't want to wear you shocked by the number of people who voted for donald trump or the percentage of the electorate with a population that there were so many of those types of people that's what i was shocked by. i would say that part of the early result coming and i was angry that it was close. i was upset that anybody would go out and vote for him after it that hollywood tape. when that tape came out and people decided that they listen to it he grabs woman by the pussy without their consent that he would do that.
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anyone after that would support that. for the majority of the night until it was clear that we were not going to win i was upset that it was even a question that we were not going to win. when it was clear when we didn't when it was mostly just stunned silence it did not cry until the next morning. but i was in shock and dismayed that people heard that tape and voted for him anyway. in her piece i was a little surprised by this she said somewhere in her bounce she knew heller was not going to win and she said that american women in hillary's supporters were so excited about her run that we ignored our instincts. to think that's a fair assessment.
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i grew up in a dictator ship in the philippines. anything can happen. i don't take anything for granted. it was really interesting because that night i was with several nonconforming friends and we have a much more ambulatory action in the sense that the obama administration made inroads trans immigrants. there are all of these issues. especially trans people of color especially that haven't
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been addressed in the current state of the representative on the one hand people were just like oh no there are all of these terrible things that i can happen that can be even worse. then at the same time people were just like maybe other people would understand how we felt even through a democratic administration. maybe people would be as angry as us and that maybe there's a chance that when the tide becomes strong then maybe people would actually account for trans people in that equation which i think is part of why i was very much in that state when i wrote my essay for the book. i definitely want to address that as well.
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i want to ask cara about your surprise or not surprise at the outcome. in your piece you seem pessimistic which i'm completely feeling it. when i saw the returns of course i was surprised/not surprised/devastated if they knew what the world was can be. the fact that it was close. have a i have a couple of things quickly to say. one is that one of my writers a year before a female writer who writes the columns she
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said to me a year before he's going to get the nomination and he might very well when i thought she was being cynical but she did say do not underestimate the racism of this country. it took me a minute it was something i have to process. my mother said this to me repeatedly as a child when things go south i say in the essay she basically told me about nazis and anti-semitism in utero. i knew about this.
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at the time it seemed not quite abstract. i witnessed it because because i did not witness so much anti-semitism was because i was living in chicago at the time. in a particularly non- jewish area. the school i went to in chicago they started busting kids from public housing to my school. a very working-class area. i heard it, i thought. the kids just self segregated. and suddenly here it was. that was the first indication that i started to feel like this is can happen.
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if you recall the debate and not even addressing the questions and as a new yorker we saw how he would get bored and he thought about running for mayor that's right i did not take them seriously. as a candidate that was my first indication. but the other thing i was gonna say was my parents are jewish liberals. when the whole planned parenthood thing was going on with the doctored films my mom believed it but she didn't care because she's a major supporter of plant. -- of planned parenthood. they watch msnbc. we are in trouble.
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she would say things like i don't love hillary because of various things but i will vote for her. bernie is a unicorns and rainbows. zero man. she was just believing whatever she said. she did not want to dig into deep. that is a very long question -- a very long answer to a very short question. in your piece you say you
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basically say that this needs to happen. i wanted to ask you why those two particular groups and how you propose this conversations are can happen. i am pessimistic as i just admitted. you need to happen between black and white women. even as a staffer. i did not join as a staffer. i grew to love her through the work and learning in learning more about her career. through the course of my work. i grew to love and respect her. i take it was important that black women recognized what was at stake. and that's why i voted for hillary clinton.
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they knew the policies were going to be horrible and they were going to affect us first. i think that is why i picked black and white women. living that experience and knowing how bad it could be. i think white women who voted for donald trump internalized a lot of misogyny and sexism. i think black women we also do that also. the feminist thought it was earlier and more involved. and i think that those conversations need to happen. it's difficult. as i want to be an easy conversation. it does require them to listen to black women because we've lived the worst of the worst
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and that goes back to the founding of the country. i was talking to someone earlier today at lunch about the legacy of black women and how i see myself in. or even black women who are activists. and i think about how i feel them in my bones and in my soul. and the women who sat down on the bus because she was tired but she was in alabama because she was investigating that. that piece of the legacy is something we don't even know. i think we just sort of have to look to their example because we were sexually assaulted to breed more slaves. to get to the point where we have a michelle obama and beyoncé and all of them making culture in changing and transforming this country for the better we have to look to black women as a model an example and listen to what
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they're saying. i think that's why i call to trust black women. and not just to say as a joke i think it's important for a lot of women have said to me i didn't realize things were so bad. it's been like this. and listen to us when we are talking about our experiences i see that as a very privileged black woman. i feel like part of why i wanted to write an essay about that. many different essays about being a black woman in a campaign. i thought it was important to document the fact that there were more black women on this campaign than any campaign in american history. in hillary clinton do that. there was a reason because she
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trust them to inform her about what is going on in our community and i think it was important to know that they were in every aspect of the campaign whether weatherby web design policy tech, communications visual. we were in every part. people didn't know that. so i wanted to put a mark there and say this is what was really going on in the campaign and we tried to break through but it's very difficult to do that on a campaign of this size. there was more black women that any than any campaign in american history. even though we tried to make that clear and black women would say to me i don't see myself in the campaign. we strategize how we are going to talk to black women. and what we can do for our communities.
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that was something i think was important to me in the campaign and that's why i wrote that in the book. when you say trust black women who are you addressing it to. are you addressing the to the white trump voters are certain the left are you talking about identity politics is not addressed to the white women. in any particular any particular person on the campaign. we should do this trust us we are doing this. really it's about you can't just hire black people and put
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them in the office and not listen to anything that they say. try to give you good information and if were willing to put ourselves on the line and get attacked by black twitter and believe me what i'm doing. in your piece which opens the book you talk a lot about identity politics and the identity policy tics. and that there is a need for what can you elaborate on that. we start happening during the election and maybe it's just on social media. continues now. some of those people were
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russian. let's be clear. i think a big motivation for my wanted to put this together was what i think is such an important value on the left. the politics and policies and the idea of identity what really motivated them. about why i think at the end of identity liberalism. i've yet to find another progressive who agrees with that. in the title of the essay he said vote for me. i think what this collection is to get at of course that's not enough. you have to continually remember to centralize the
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most difficult and franchise enfranchise of us. something now we have we don't have lunch on the campaign. in wanting i've been thinking a lot about is what i think right now diversity and just because of some who they are. what does welfare reform look like if you talk about and look at statistics on how their communities are more impacted than others. hillary's experience is an issue of identity. if she would've been a man her experience would have been different. it's like water.
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you have to know why. that was really moving from rather the sphere where the lie we tell ourselves that we don't share experience. i guess we all go to starbucks. we all experience it if we even had access to citizenship. that to me is there. the left that wants to put that to the side. i just wanted to inform everybody in the audience that i'm reflecting there. just a few more minutes before we start. if you had questions write it down. he handed to someone at the side of the aisle you are just
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talking about misogyny. and one thing i was a little bit surprised by and maybe i'm just not seen it. there has not been a robust accounting of the way that sexism played a role in not just the way that clinton was treated during the campaign in her loss. there is a part of me that is wishing for a susan flutie size book to come out this week. an interrogation of the 2014 and after. it hasn't happened. are you hearing people talk about that. our your professional friends and colleagues people that you know people that were interested in studying this.
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is someone on this. i don't know if anybody is writing the book. i want someone to be doing that. this is something that i had been observing as someone who did not go through my teenage years as female bodied or identifying as a woman. i am completely obsessed with teen movies. what if my life had been like that. one of the things i noticed is how in movies men when they are smart and effortlessly smart. when it's women we have lisa simpson reese witherspoon in election. there is this entire trial a
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smart capable woman is inherently just kind of annoyingly detail oriented and obsessive. in this way in a in a way that is so terrible. i think it was really played out so much. in terms of hillary. one of the first debate she was criticized for seeming over prepared. were over prepared as a criticism or you use? i feel like someone it should be on this panel. i just want to defend lisa simpson.
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and i love that about her. for small, obviously sexism played a major role. the troll army has descended. no no no. and it have to be like that. you are never allowed to talk about hillary clinton without saying she's flawed. you can just say i like her. then you're like suspect or people think that you are shallow. i wrote a piece right after she announced it.
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i was thrilled to vote for obama when he got the nomination. i thought i saw a lot of sexism two. we are really be attacked by men on the left now and they are saying that it was also there when president obama ran. we confuse them a little bit. i'm not gonna say anything. you are not allowed to say that sexism was a factor. enjoy your good reasons but can we talk about sexism.
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or she ran a terrible campaign. can't she just take care of that. i'm sorry. i'm still mad about this. they did the speech i felt like a funeral. and it really did. and we were up against russia and wikileaks and all of these things. in my crime we said girls she was a girl they didn't even add that. all of these things were happening. i think we skipped over that. she was been treated differently by every single dimension of this. what does he have against her.
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and just being in the history of their relationship. and the thing that people forget is that she needs to be on the other side. slightly emotional for people to then be tied to that. she is a symbol of how women in america live. how we navigate the spaces that we navigate in. men had so much more by the way i am wearing orange shoes. because i can stop. there on my feet.
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i want to thank you for constantly seen russia. i think that's another manifestation. with as much as we know about the level of influence of paid trolls its massive we still keep postmortem mean the election. by pretty much any realistic measure especially now with in last couple days and that is where she supposedly lost. i think we did not acknowledge that. we understood at the time when it was happening the first batch of e-mails that came out was ours after the access hollywood tape came out.
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they were not the campaign folks. it was not hacked. until the election. i think internally we were like we are being attacked. it felt like an act of war and hillary has eased that term to talk about it because it was an escalation of sumps or of conflict that we were in the middle of at the time. i think as kate said we are now realizing that they were targeting ads. i wonder why it was the difference of 20,000 votes. i will move on to the audience questions. i will ask you afterwards. i would just jump into these.
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the first one. are we in the fourth wave of feminism. who is leading. does it actively include men. thank you anna. let me look. it is not to say that i consider myself a fourth wave feminist. but i'm also getting old. the young people coming out i think have a whole different perspective where i was working with college students last year. and seen seeing the things they take for granted that were really struggles for me to learn. i'm very excited about the fourth way. i would say i can't say who's leading it in terms of naming
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anyone. i feel increasingly important to recognize it to me like we were to saint it is multifaceted ideally it will be threaded through all of society is not just something that happens in clumps of new york intellectuals. there are a lot of young women there. she was just editing a publication thing she can amy 20 young women who are amazing. what are the core principles. inter- sexuality is a core principle. acknowledging that they are only one identity among many for all of us.
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as much as i think men are always welcome to help i don't think that is any different. does it center men. no. i would say also in terms of the core principles. even before the gold -- the election they just did not relate to her. they are ready for laverne cox to be president. they just cannot relate to the glass ceiling kind of metaphor. i don't care that they don't relate to her. i agree. call me when you get old and fat and we will talk. we will see about that.
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a real thing than to keep bringing up for women who are in their early 20s now. they only became the political ascension with obama basically. they think you are supposed to have this incredible rush of amazing feelings about your president that is something that i think is frustrating for a lot of us. looking at them. in demanding more purity from the candidates. shortly after the election i talked to a friend who voted for trump when asked her about the nasty women and on and on her response was i don't know why that stuff just doesn't bother me. i'm no reply to that. what would you have said. this is a question that has actually come up there is a person i was surprised to find
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out that there were people that did vote that was related to the big vote for trump. i never want to speak to them again. but we have to they show up at holidays. i decide not like hillary. not an answer. i find it unspeakable act. i try to tried with one person. the other two we just didn't speak of it. they didn't admit it. the one person that told me she actually hates him and wants him to be impeached i think the response i would have would be you know he's
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not joking right it doesn't end there. it's not just about rape culture. at so rarely about that. it is a whole realm of hatred. he has no respect for you. and that comes out in legislation and the kinds of things that he's going to do in office. the next question this is directed at you. how do you ask lena 53 percent of women voters voted for trump. where were the nasty women. this is a fun question because it comes up a lot. it's important to know that white women vote for republicans always the
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majority of them about for them. 56% voted for mitt romney. she did a little bit better than president obama. i think it's complicated. some of the focus groups and information we are getting at the time it was clear that married white women in particular either didn't like hillary because her husband did not like hillary or they did not like her because she was not warm enough. they wanted her to revoke some very terror stereotypical nurturing warmer aesthetic in her presentation which is what they expected of us. the men around them usually their husbands hated hillary. she remind me of my ex-wife. she felt entitled.
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we said zero women. i feel like in some ways it is internalized. it was one of the most frustrating moments. because coming from the feminist blogger who is so obvious to me. you are talking about people coming from capitol hill and the dnc. they have no understanding of that. an understanding that understand that they can also be misogynist. and that they can hate under women. i think it's important that they had written about the collection. that white women vote for republicans. i think what we thought.
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why weren't women running out. it has a race that is a much bigger motivator. that's by design. the emperor is important to understand historically that they vote for republicans but also that gender is markup more collocated. and in some ways i think now sitting here today at the first woman president might be a woman of color because of the way that race is motivated and getting them to support a particular candidate and identity find that. i'm pretty sure she is setting herself up. it's interesting. because i think that she again
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is can have to get those white women to vote for her. and there is something about their place in our society and how their culture is rated. when we speak out and we are assertive we kind of have to be because i'm always the only black person in the room. i'm also the only black woman in the room a lot. have to sort of messed things up and speak out and make you uncomfortable all the time. i think white women are ulcerated in a different way. this question meredith i'm going to go towards you and everybody else. how to walk the intake trump line. he lives for that attention. so i cannot really care what trump does or how he feels unless his actions have a
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particular effect on the lives of people. there is a sense even the impulse to say i'm back not can do something because it will affect that somehow. it will make trump feel better. the thing is our job as citizens is not to care about the personal feelings of our president who is leading our country. he created the entire dynamic in which an entire nation is beholden to his feelings. from my vantage point i think that i will be as intake trump if as i want if i feel like that is the action and the motivation that would get people there. and they would convince them
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to rally against them. against them. when he was here in new york the first time if you can recall that was the week of charlottesville. he said the crazy stuff about good people. that was because he was very tired because paul had been practicing purchasing all night and he could hear them. that was the first time he was here in new york since the election and so he wants to be liked. he does not like bad press. if the coverage turns to russia you will get the fake news tweet. he freaks out. he wants positive press. it's very much he's a narcissus.
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some people try and do so successfully. one of the questions that came through one of the questions that came through wasn't audio -- audience member who have asked whether they had used that on san juan puerto rico. and she went on tv today with a nasty shirt on. this is a tough one. kate, maybe you can try this. how are you dealing with the distrust of the media after the election and how do we move forward to get the message and facts out there. how do you do that. i think there are two levels. my personal distress of the media right after the election one of the first thing i do is cancel my new york times subscription.
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i have a lifelong reverence for the time that a lot of people have. the way they covered the e-mails made me so angry. i still see it with it. seen the way people for the paper record are still trying to bully played on russia and play up hillary's mistakes. and suddenly everybody involved in the administration has used private e-mail servers and we are getting two seconds on that. i went lot of anger and a lot of mistrust about that. i was able to unsubscribe to the times and be happy about that. it's in a lot of publications that i still read. that is very frustrating. there is the other aspect how
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do we deal with the people who are watching nothing but fox news all day. this is a fake news. and then you have the actual fake news it's really hard. as i'm same saying for a long time before it became this tire that i feel like what the next generation needs to learn more than anything in school is critical thinking and how to evaluate sources. just because we are dealing with it. to be able to look and say this is a reputable source. this contains links to the source material. this has been a fact checked. or even just the basic level of this. that is something that we will have to be teaching more and more in critical thinking has to be starting in first grade
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at this point. there are a couple of components i have to ask them all. where to look to join an organization how can we help. you can supply specific answers or more general once. things to do not to do. i would say i think that feminism right now in terms of looking at one feminist movement is not necessarily the right way to look at it. i think there are different applications of feminism and i think there is a lot of amazing activism happening right now.
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i think that there are other groups that are doing grassroots organizing. and activism a lot of the work that is happening around there. there is just some other issues that i think are so deeply under resourced a lot of exciting and innovative work happening in the spaces. it's one way to get involved. i don't think that it is there. there are a lot of ways to answer this. i'm just can go with the middle age white woman
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answer. script it's done. i am in emily's list feminist now. that's it i'm going to focus on. i just moved to florida once i'm done with this to her i want to get involved with another campaign for for the senator from florida. i'm happy to be voided in the state where it counts. everybody is going to get more interesting answers than that. but also demonstrate that. one of the reasons that so many women are so hesitant to run outside of that. and watching what happened to hillary as there is a huge gap in fundraising for what women candidates can fund raise and
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so on. we can flip that would pretty easily. it is hard because i think that you have to sort of be feminist in every moment. you kind of have to be that person to have a conversation. i often use my debt as an example because i am the daughter of two pastors and my dad was a republican until 2004. i use him to figure how to main convincing arguments that would work. i made him a supporter of marriage equality and what if
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it's this. that he was like you know, you will point. think that practice to talk and debate and do it all in public. and then suddenly be i'm not gonna do that. what they said about the war in iraq. it's what really changed my mind. i mean i'm in a change my position on the issue. i'm going to support hillary clinton. i see what she is talking about when she says i think we all had people in our lives that had different views are they say things like i never thought about that way. that's when we are having the conversation.
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it is about having those difficult conversations. if we don't it's going to just keep going. it sounds to me with a certain generosity of spirit that they can have their minds changed. it's really hard to do. for a lot of us. if i did not believe that i would not be sitting here. i recently saw one of my aunts who marched in the third march in selma. and she 65 years old. and because black women don't age very fast. she have to hide from the client in the back of a pickup truck. she is standing in front of me.
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i worked for hillary clinton. for me i think it's about change can happen. we were in some chattel slavery and i'm sitting on the stage talking. i was a person at some point. those are my ancestors so obviously we can make a change in people's minds and is slow and it sucks and it's painful to have to believe it. i have lived in the dead sea since 19 since i was 15.
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and one of my biggest consistent challenges has been to become close friends when people that are very different than me. and i feel and that is a challenge every day even somebody who is in inter- sexual minority who occupies a bunch of different categories. we live such difficult lives when we are minorities in one direction that we so often find it very difficult to empathize with each other. enter feel with the struggles that each other is dealing with unless we actually care about people in the specific people that we love. in specific ways. for me the really effective way mean in the black
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transition issues. and being around those. it has really been to form close individual relationships with people and especially people who challenge you especially people who question you. especially people who push back because it's really the only way that your point of view can consistently be challenged. that has been a very important aspect for me. that is the thing about being the last person everyone is touched a lot of these things.
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to do integrating feminism in your life into social injustice justice in general. i have learned so much from all of these different writers and the perspectives that they bring i have learned so much about disability rights and black lives matter and transit rates. i feel like i'm part of the dialogue also but i'm also bringing that it gets bigger and bigger every day.
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i think we had one of one of the best dialogues about abortion rights. and the mainstream feminist we are very small and independent because we are independently owned. if we want to have a really bold headline we can just get it out there. i feel very lucky that we get to take on as much as we do with our one or two posts per day and have a fresh perspective and really be part of the conversation or shape the conversation. in that sense i feel like it's a way in. to have that kind of dialogue and bring new people into that conversation and into the movement and also what kate was talking about.
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supporting candidates. on every level. .. .. this is how it will be done. i find the most, you know, i think this is how activism starts. you have to get out on the streets. this is how we have to do it. i did find that the dialogue is the most and if you're not listening you will not get anywhere and you will not bring more people in you will not learn anything and you will just stagnate and this is why things
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like intersectional feminism has, i think, come to a crisis because it hasn't been that listening and everyone has been talking with the same people and just like it has been clusters. [applause] >> we will wrap this up. i will let you know there are books for sale outside of the auditorium but there will be signing of the books on the stage. you can grab a book and bring it down and there will be signing by the editors and authors. i wanted to say thank you for coming into say thank you to our writers for their hard work on their book and those who contributed.
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[applause] >> book tv is on twitter and facebook and we want to hear from you. treat us a or post a comment on her facebook page. facebook. >> doctor rice is going to be interviewed for


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