issues and who are good at it to be running and they should be the candidates. [applause] >> don't forget to become a friend of the festival. it's a free event [inaudible] >> inaudible

as a business reporter you know for a fact that other business people are going to be running for president or considering it. mark cuban, oprah winfrey, we've heard those names. who else? >> anybody from howard schultz, you could have former athletes, entertainers, condi i think wht the selection did in the fact he was able to get elected with no political experience and without spending hisis own money compans a larger group of people who would ordinarily consider running for president especially ones with nontraditional backgrounds said in this new modern era maybe there is a path for somebody like me i know how to communicate with people on

television. >> what's the devil's bargain that you did in the title of the book lacks >> it is a partnership between donald trump and how they got elected and that is the bargain of the title essentially it is the bargain that he struck with donald trump. he was the generator is a set of ideas in this kind of right-wing populist nationalism that he believed wasni powerful enough o give somebody elected president. the first candidate had been ben becerra paling time he tried with michele bachmann, the former tea party, he finally met up with donald trump and did manage to get trump elected. once these ideas got elected, the president whom he had elected and would in turn implement them if he had only been willing to do so in a few areas like the t steel tariffs, but by and large he hasn't

really governed as the populists that he campaigned on, he governed more like a traditional republican focused on the tax cuts cuts >> did i steve bannon participae in the book? >> guest: i told a story i met him back in 2011 whe 2,011th whe had ever heard of them a conservative filmmaker said i read your article did i. but like you to see my film and i would like too meet you.

it didn't have this representation and a politics back in 2011 but have since become force not just in the tea party but donald trump. >> are they still with donaldon trump? >> i think that they are still with donald trump. i have a chapter about the bargain and they weren the merchant bankers who funded the varioushe projects.

the family is still very much on board. everything you've read about me, don't believe, this is what i stand for a. they've supported to some of the radical ideas and you have other journalists at the new yorker and a factory who i've worked with on bloomberg who eliminated some of the very unusual far y right and crank candidates that they have supported.

whether it was breitbart news, there was such a platform for pro- trump journalists and the propaganda during the campaign and helped hims win the electio. giving speeches and what he would call nationalists i really

see as coming up the have and have-nots and using the racist base platform to excite people i would like to get your comment about is that a surprise and if it is and how do you see that having an effect within europe university liberal democracies and also impact on the united id states particularly in the run-up to the election. >> it is a great question. he'sue always been fascinated by populists, nationalists, fascists, in europe i told the story of the lineage of some of the political ideas. of those in the 1930s and 1940s he was kind of a mussolini for a while and

studied soviet propaganda and the nazi filmmaker. really i think that he wanted to absorb how it was that they were able to shape public ideas and manipulate the public sentiment. he's always had a fascination with europe before he came to trump when he was the head of breitbart news he opened up the room to report and he had plans to do the same thing. germany, italy and france. he didn't manage to dond that, t he believed that it was part of a global right-wing a nationalit that swept across europe and through great britain and manifested itself and then it wasn't necessarily due to anything that trump had said himself that he was the vessel beneficiary and i talked to him while he was in the white house last spring during the french election and one of his frustrations was because he was

in the white house, he wasn't able to go to france and help. he thought had he been able to do that he might have one, so it's no surprise to me that now at least for the time being through the american politics, he's moved overme to europe to back a lot of the right-wing and in some cases racism in the anti-semitic parties that seem to be on the rise. i think this way of continuing f continuing to be involved in this movement that he believes stillti has strength in the unid states even if it went into a decline. >> barbies in newark new jersey. go ahead. >> caller: i'm concerned if it is privatized social security will be treated like pensions

and they would take advances and bonuses just like the corporations like the news media corporations. it is going to continue into the future -- >> host: i think we got the point. thank you. i don't see this becoming a danger in the short term. it is the third rail of the american politics and if you touch it and make the effort to privatize social security, the voters that depend on this like the caller will react to a the

efforts to repeal obamacare and the affordable care act and cause a counteract movement to push it to fail so i think that while it remains a goal that certain people in the republican party so long as the voters who rely on social security organize and come out of town hall meetings and the representatives not to t cut it but the program will remain intact. >> who has president of trump here today? >> guest: whoever happens to be the guest on fox and friends which seems to be the main conduit of the interest. people who look to influence trump are starting to buy ads on fox and friends.

for a while in the fall of the e tax reform is on the agenda. they had been pushing these tariffs since the outset of the presidency.

>> [inaudible] >> caller: i would like to see some other things. >> guest: do you have a question? if it is and the ponzi scheme can you explain why? there is no social security but it's been used ever since johnsonth was elected a long beh california, you are on the air.

[inaudible] thank you. >> guest: i had the same trouble and i was hoping that you called what he was saying. ii think i got an idea that he was talking about. president trumps base maybe not as poor as the democratic base. >> one of the things that came earlier, trump ran on a certain idea that was blue-collar focused and one of the things that differentiated the other candidates is that he vowed not to cut programs like social security, medicare, medicaid and in fact the efforts to repeal the act.

there've been defectors in the approval rating as much as other republicans who voted for demand independence but by and large i think that trump has managed his face because he is the nontraditional divisive figure that he ran into somebody's going to shake up washington and not comport to the ordinary standards of the presidential behavior. i think that he's also been very good at the cultural battles whether it is over issues like steel tariffs and u.s. trade deals or whether it's issues like the nfl quarterback in response to the police brutality that is something that he's mentioned again and again that

resonates with the voters and keeps a them loyal to him even f he isn't delivering on the policies he promised that help these downscale. >> given that you knew him since 2011, you've been following this and get 2016 surprise you? >> guest: is really dead. i make a sort of compassion in the preface to my book having been spent the last three years of my life as a reporter covering the populist right if anyone should have been able to see this coming it would be me and yet i didn't realize until 9 p.m. donald trump was going to be the next president and i think that is partly because i was captive to the same set of assumptions and working within a

bubble except people like donald trump can't get elected they will like some of what he has to say and don't like hillary clinton it's my surprise with just about everybody else he was able to win the electoral college victory and i think that is on me as a reporter. for people like me or my mom who called up and said what on earth happened coming you told me hillary was going t to win. part of what i'm trying too do s go back to the beginning with hindsight and tell how this happened and yet people who should have known better were not able to see in real-time. >> host: jim, go ahead good afternoon. >> caller: i want to make two quick comments, the first is to introduce into the second i will hang up and listen. i want to thank you for your demeanor on the last c panel.

you were the voice of reason and come closer because you shared the voice and to make a point the word libertarian links with racist, fascist and kkk. i will hang up and listen to your comments. thank you. >> guest: i'm not looking to push a certain agenda or to analyze or explain what happened. that is why one of the appeals innd my book i'm not carrying watei am not carryingwater fromr to talk about politics whether it is the worker and event i'm glad that it appeals to those out there watching tv so thank you for the comments.

>> host: every president changes the contours of american politics and trump will also. >> guest: there is no question that he is changing the contours of the politics already goes in the norms that he is breaking and how he comports himself but fundamentally, he has broadened the possibility for what sort of people can run for president and how they should run for president. those that might have been thought of as serious candidates in the past for the party nomination as they should because trump showed how it's done ander i think that he has also shown that american voters inin both parties show this that they are longing fo for list of karami and more authenticity in their candidates if you talk to hillary clinton one of the

things they regret and hindsight is it was very risk adverse and composed. he was able to capture the media's attentione and keep the public attention riveted if you want to be art successful politicianor you will need to distinguish yourself with the kind of authenticity that we now realize it'san more important tn the wake of donald trump.ti

>> [inaudible] i don't thinken that obama had anything to do with russian collusion and i think that is why he's looking at donald trump and w republicans political analyst on cnn and for your senior editor of the atlantic and author of this book devil's bargain, donald trump and the stormingev of the presidency updated and out of paperback last month. thanks for being on booktv. >> this is part of our coverage of the tucson festival of books. beginning now, the retired admiral and former commander of camp david michael