tv Ken Bensinger Red Card CSPAN June 30, 2018 11:00pm-12:11am EDT
what is going on, in american politics, so remarkable amazing book i encourage to you buy it the other thing i encourage to you do is to sign up to be on our mailing list we have events like this, a couple or three times a week, and you will find if you start to come, that it will add something to your life thank you for being here without further adieu thank you both for being here. [applause] . >> really -- thank you, and most of what he said given -- american politics there is a lot about trained him to do i think he learned a lot more than i could ever teach him very fast. and before i start talking to ken, just ask a little bit --
who is -- whole structure of soccer -- just get a quick, every country in the world that plays soccer, 211 has a national association. that runs their soccer program. then they authors -- fifa international organization, the umbrella over the soccer then fifa the organizational purposes divides rural into regions the catchall is yes, it is umbrella as ken will get into it most of the corruption occurred most in south america, and north america.
and, obviously, get their -- organizational -- entire that basically all local entities recentlial entities sponsorship rights so i want to make sure you all have that background. and as burt said it is just to gather if you will. and what fascinated me a new a lot of players i was -- in in the -- a lot of the episodes that went on, how used it all together just amazing to me because this is multiple national look what was the
process doing the investigation, and compelling book. >> thank you. before i than those question i want to say alan knows what i am talking about i don't think -- credential list, but allen and told me things that alan knows chief executive, and he was in charge of running, successful workout, in history certainly in history in terms of number of people went through it, very profit compared to some of the others, alan also was one of the associations he mention that oversees the operations, and also cofounder of make-believe soccer the professional league two chains in los angeles, and spread all over the country, he has been
on list for committees, and in sport i believe i have -- got. >> one of the could be -- is fifa -- >>s you laughed. >> so another fun is makes a cameo inside the book, because unbe announceed to him, went to dinner with one of the secreto and guy was wearing a wire. and -- there was an fbi agent irs agent in same restaurant, putting foot in his mouth he never did they never did anything with him but sure tried. >> first thing i did was -- i was hoping name wasn't even in
it, then it was in it i was delighted only one page, not too much, and that is when i found out this dinner they had not only was research if you will, wire, actually wire was a chip inside, that was -- later -- the next -- listen to you, but -- >> so i heard was that to a trendy distract to go pay attention a whole gathering of hollywood stars walked in restaurant -- >> that, so they i think had trouble paying attention to the conversation. >> whatever it is. >> so to answer your question
altogether it was a first off the book is about six years -- 70% longer than final draft even before that was a moment where i was in the basement of the library, newspapers from 1978 trying to learn as much as i could -- very problematic to where we were -- i thought to myself how i am a ever going to tell story show me a character with so many moving parts a answer was a lot of different moving material that seemed exterrainous. to the old school extra pencil, the manuscript printed out makes you what pencil to use when you make your changes then mail it back to them,
multiple times, and if -- in this book, that is common tend to be things too many -- so i think also came down to looking for what was the center most important story going forward. unfortunately, there were characters fleesincredibly important to investigation, didn't get arrested -- exactly. good capital one of the soccer officials in historical the book a version, he didn't get indicted but -- citizens, never going to get him, and why don't we start on that.
so i am glad to hear that held together. . >> it is great. >> things going on, in washington. and really the book that struck me a lot. including that original source was irs agent, and was arrested by the stuff that you read about in trials and in history, books, it was just a guy basically at court it was you kept telling how that went down, just curious as obviously did you spend a lot of time with him or just a piece of -- afterwards? >> well, started by saying i
am a journalist i don't some things i can't talk about, and -- i can't, of course, i can't in this case in this book, there are characters that some talked to i didn't talk to them but i in fact did i am going to have to be like a you know, magician unfortunately, i will tell you, steve berryman, a character because very in the story the investigation that was done out of federal district in brooklyn, new york, and actually the time, comes along they are having a lot of trouble making the case move forward steve berryman, in orange county, laguna niguel office internal revenue service would have nothing to
do with it but he was -- air force -- his father stationed in england he grew up in england, a liverpool fan, got a division one scholarship as place kicker to kick field goals for southern and northern illinois, southern illinois university. not quite enough to be a kicker, obviously path could be -- and went down there got in riverside county orange county doing excuse me -- and thing he said was cases when fbi detcha to do them cases chasing drugs -- and you can't really say you can't complete
the investigation until you figure out where money is don't sell drugs for nothing they sell it for money that money, to find that, you don't really close the loop that was one of the cases, to determine cases 20 pounds. so i was in the case, also, we talked about what he convinced prosecutors in this case about was a money laundering case first and foremost the way to prove it, the sheets you can make a case, there was a trial he spent three days, only one person spent more time than him and on the screen projecting spreadsheets he was like no 15452. was seen row xxb, you know,
there is there is a number you are looking for, and what he was testifying in trial sitting there at the prosecution table with computer looking at other spreadsheets, because he was continuing to do what he does best. >> -- an al jooidz an analogizes what is going on in washington, d.c.. >> my theory transactions -- >> many years. and if you see -- outside what mueller is doing should you have looks that way manafort, he was his pledge, the russians and indicted -- but,
>> i think that is right i think you know, you are giving a segue into -- but i think that is right in fact all -- people on mueller's team who had a small in in, this investigation one of the top guys andrae supervisor of the case sort of trained him, and a woman who worked in the case supervised other cases while running this case. she was an interesting, profiled in new yorker last couple years ago in cases some of you might have read the article on case as well, a lot of people trained in same tradition that kind of police work checking as paperwork following numbers so much more
than almost everything else the jury sitting down and saying you can do it, about our way or hard way. >> prosecutors are used to getting most people to confront them with evidence just roll over it is so completely overwhelming, outside the scope of conversation but i find it as founding that metaphor in trial considering amount of evidence seems like suicide. but you know i guess a pardon -- >> giuliani represented -- >> giuliani for a client? segue was about the connection to mr. mueller in general, first is that mueller was fbi when case opened, and he created a new vision for the fbi, had to do with --
focusing on what he considered terrorism related crimes, and money to support it leaves a lot of money out fbi, and over, focused being russian ukrainian other kinds of -- brooklyn, new york, you can imagine import, not interested in that anymore they want new things to do, and being -- bled agents the guy this charge, national question, then -- and so he starts traveling around talking the cases he can find, where else
trump tower, involving illegal poker room, and online sports betting. piece of that case, mod"molly's game" a piece of that, it is -- head of this a russian to take mafia down fbi agent goes to london o to build a case, other places, introduced to a guy becomes famous, years later, christopher steele was not famous then, he meets fbi agent tells us what he can about russian mafia boss, and sort of lead off, you got --
christopher steele had a client, didn't come up, the england, big to 201 world cup england -- russia, world cup in 2018, even higher, not small amount of money to try to win huge deal for them, all 66 world cup, they want to have it again, they want to cover bases basically excluded -- to gather information about this, so as steele -- he gathered information started getting sources, russia, doesn't seem playing fair in attempt to win world cup
hearing rumors about control people getting involved normally -- president putin the fact putin famously not a soccer fan is a hockey fan, not interested some obsessed with soccer, troubling to him he call fbi agent up again says come out to london i want to tell you about something else, and they sit down again, and have a conversation about what about russia is doing how this works, about why russia went to china, might be national crime involved, and fbi agent had never heard of fifa said what is a fifa, and he goes back to new york, excited about idea and finds a prosecutor coincidences him open the case once opened it is important not just for the o but because that essentially first step in building a relationship between fbi and
christopher steele ends up much sort of more important role down the road all lives, because christopher steele, dossier about russia christopher steele wants to get to fbi -- because he has -- this relationship with him vetted, with him calls same fbi agent at that point no longer in new york was in rome working in embassy in rome, and gives him -- safe bet, it took success of the case to make it viable credible thing so jim comey was fbi director by the time this case opened 2015, press conference happened jim comey standing in brooklyn announcing it, towering over loretta lynch,
and so a lot of -- we think of trump's they call on fifa -- >> one -- yeah. >> you get -- one thing i am thinking about about this timing of this, this russia the cup in russia, and back at england, russia, utterly una qualified to get it perfect place for world cup probably except for -- the next that is ball of wax. but russia didn't have the money the airports, and they say tradition maybe soviet -- so not a lot of good reasons why they should be but they win in, 2010.
this is period when obama was president and in russian reset russia u.s. buddies obama hugging putin, at the same time christopher steele finding out stuff that was happening, russia sanctions against iran, and taking russia off sanctions list one warm fuzzy time, hard it is easy to forget that we think of russia in pretty stark terms this is a warm cuddly russia in 2010, what we see now that is this was in a sense the first sign of what russia was getting the first incursion of russia into national affairs in a way that is kind of machiavellian we are going to get what we want no matter what russia wants -- the most important sporting event in the world biggest audience in world won't all
eyeballs on them, i think putin had been president -- planning to do to win world cup so internally russian voters would say look how great i am i got -- in the world -- 2012, in march 57 plus percent -- 75 plus percent of the vote. >> if domestically strong, in hindsight, the russia that we do secretive things to get what it wanted no one was seeing it i guess except maybe fbi agents. >> central figure in whole thing is the one that was tax
issue, a gentlemen named chuck some of us here know him i wish you would give him a terrific description physically psychologically every when way. >> chuck -- part of it, but he is certainly -- liquefyike figuratively literally. >> 450 pounds -- big guy, and type 2 diabetes, couldn't walk very well would ride around in central park. he had a giant beard and mop kind of hair on his head
looked like santa claus basically. and which is -- you know a long -- what he was he went to forest high school same high school as ramon and also simon and garfunkel peter carpenter went to frs hills, and -- didn't come on to it until late 30s kids were in soccer westchester county, new york, new roschelle. >> he had -- kids played soccer, if i were in this if i were president soccer would do that if charge would do this, the guy actually said that -- he was up from cutting orange slices, sidelines to being one of this most powerful men in all of world soccer first
american on fifa, in 50 years, and was head of the one of the regional associations federation alan was talking about number two, in confederation, enormous power. and i think a lot of -- things that he helped, in get first significant contract, played big role women's national -- women's soccer supporter to understand how important that game was, and people know him well, often as a enumerate raconteur, life of the party famous for e-mailing -- in new york, where there was one corner mom ad mohamed auhammad
the other. >> button vivant. >> a common thought, a clip of a guy conflicted at trial december handing out medals for soccer team, forge it he was putting money in one kid skipped him didn't think -- in so -- detention right now waiting for his sentence convicted five of six counts. >> chuck's thing was working out -- came up with salesman
sold -- he claimed invented didn't the smily face button in early 70s. a couple guys -- probably -- a bit of a who knows where it came from situation chuck laid his life on that button company produced made many, and saw an opportunity, one also for himself one famous things gets a job, regional federation, who wouldn't like that want to -- what would you do in a room write your own contest -- and what he said is i won't take a salary, i will just set up this company company i will be employee company may contact association get 10% all
revenue -- every dollar, my company. the beginning wasn't about revenue behind last year worked there 60 million dollars in revenue did well. on top of that, the credit card to pay for almost everything he did, he didn't put anything on the card that wasn't, on -- the card -- he got the confederation to apply things that he would use a hummer a condo in miami, bahamas a long list he built a studio 3-million-dollar studio, apartment top dollar. trump tower where was reunion thanks to donald trump, the trump tower.
-- using a branch from fifa development grant -- and 300,000 dollars from that. kind of amazing you consider that revenue, but anyway. one reason he didn't file taxes didn't file confederation taxes so long irs c3 status -- and the least 17 years if white plains new york a filing from civil case in which said he had tax issues, early 1980s.
so -- that he didn't pay taxes, you can understand why didn't -- he had assets, he went to las vegas gambled vegas players cards, play enough. he was two years out. >> and, berryman has power. >> they can't it is a huge obstacle, they need irs to do it get order from judge explained to me five times i don't understand it if they get an order to look at it
makes it basically possible to charge tax crimes they don't do it, irs, you can see bingo, never paid taxes, not that common; right? >> so a matter of approving income he did it complicates -- status a guy in caribbean, wow, jack warner -- jack warner -- to the press, and on web site, investigative journalist. sensational puts it out there, sees it looks at it notices looking at it that he had been -- the internet cancellation
mark was merrill lynch. >> chuck usually mail, to the caribbean where he had secret accounts but got lazy sent to merrill lynch. and this was like, you know, he could subpoena merrill lynch and get all the start to build a case, because merrill lynch not a national bank in cayman islands meant he could do it without making a lot of no ideas, not tell anybody if started asking, probably know, a lot more complicated. so subpoenaed information, and front end -- trump tower sit down and no a story about this
you can't -- called him up on phone said like to meet with you i thought it was about something else they sit down, and they say fbi -- in to another store shopping, knew him, and so this is regarding that -- and football, i care about it, want you to know -- this is a specific subpoena, you take it out you have to give us every name and account number bank account you have. >> he considered helping with our investigation -- some people this is trying to come you probably heard that term some people hard if working hard, sometimes you have to
handcuff them trithem downtown sometimes do things like -- in face of well won't do it you have to get them to do it, maybe 17 seconds. to decide. and within couple weeks sitting down with prosecutors, telling them the story ad nauseam explaining to guys what they didn't understand a heck of a lot because he knew it all, a lot of it, and then you mentioned -- i don't know if -- i think i think whistle-blower is something you do you feel outraged saving your -- doesn't feel moral outrage, like, you know,
so he decided to wear a wire they said you got to wear a wire make -- recordings objection consent from one side by the way, the other person doesn't know, you got to do that, sorry, and he recorded other people, that he got stuff got, with chuck, including, sort of made the case met with them i am like -- saying about got money maybe north 102-million-dollar in bribing over his career, and in south america, and would make out much less, by the way, got eliminate
arresting him change him to the wall they got he sort of brought a new -- delivered south america equivalequivering payoffs related to tv and marketing rights in americas. so, for example, if somebody wanted to get the south american tv rights, hugely valuable, they would go and pay off whatever the executives were give them money, in turn acquired the rightsto the legal theory u.s. attorneys used was that money that was the value of the entire package that, money should have gone to in the total not just the part they got so most of it evolved
beyond that, most of the stuff talks about scandals, specific deepest scandal -- why i was -- much ado with chuck, i was representing government of morocco when they were trying to acquire rights for 2010 had been isolated to be in of-- designated to be in africa i went to be waiting by phone thought he would win, all that, and look at the vote he lost, knew exactly who flipped it was jack warner, one of his coho cohorts, i assumed that there was -- i have no idea.
but apparently they were -- to meet with me, morocco, if we don't -- we must have paid him, and paid him more. that is how. fortunately i have no idea if they did, so -- you were -- >> that is right, talked to i admitted jack warner negotiated 10-million-dollar bribe to -- third member of this -- morocco admitted to it chaplain merrill lynch chap was small trumping of money part of the bribe coming in installments, led to problems with warner but the point is, now that was kind of high
level production, clearly, that is very -- a lot more where that comes from as far as what they in this case that is the capital of fifa also not only represented majority of what they found, of course, soccer, that was worth -- incredibly important no one thinks of that even today ask you about -- sponsorship, bribe, you think about money in soccer, how popular most money is not it is not very highest level but everywhere, all tv, sponsorship all the coca-cola, adidas samsung brands involved in it -- to answer your question -- an example -- not published in the state nike, story goes people in the room 92, 39
maybe up there are met with nike tried to get them to response the -- >> it was -- i think maybe -- someone else not interested, wasn't interested, huge success thanks to alan, and worked up -- and 100 something how to people there, and maybe soccer is something, kind of important agreed to sponsor at that point but also went and got brazil -- absolutely sponsor -- sponsor you know, japan, going to sponsor the number one people in the world so went down there, came out-years later in fifa case, as called, more complicated than that, that huge -- brazil included kickbacks, now nike
if you ask if they know about it, we didn't know kickbacks maybe so but two million dollars a year, from that deal, in his pocket. that is represented -- all these tv deals would include bigger, bigger, bigger bribes the end negotiating, here in u.s. couple years ago, that not confederation originally demand 15 million negotiated down to 10-million-dollar bribe for one tournament. not kind of money thinking about money could have gone to federation, you think about economics of it why is someone bribed -- to rights to something. because i want alan not only give you contact but
negotiating -- promise not to talk to anyone else about it when account xrierdz in four years give me -- but i mean to know what that means no competition for the product and easy to magic after market trade was -- never -- the market sort of fantasy, never realized. >> you mentioned no extradition in the share -- huge number of the -- defendants tradition -- and again not unlikely.
this is a very first they can they have talent for making nothing look really nice. like, empty rooms, look fabulous, that is what that holtel was like go into room knock on doors, 6:00 in the morning, they say hello we're here to arrest you you have to come with us thank you very much drag him out of there, it just -- it is like a craziest thing that happened to the support, one of the guys was marin bust him his wife in the room a lot of guys travel with their wives, she is completely
terrified doesn't know what is happening so she goes on phone he is gone packing bag to go calls up other guy marco de niro, had just at an over brazilian soccer confederation from the other one says marco polo you got to help me, my husband is in horrible trouble got to come help. marco polo, so he says terrible, awful i'm going to come right now help you out, he hangs up the phone goes over and packs a suitcase, then goes to lobby the hotel gets in limo he goes to the airport flooidz to brazil never went to her room, i side
i don't want to touch him, flies in from brazil back to take a vote, later he was voting delegate, and he is in brazil, his phone, the trial all the other guy and start showing, and sort of almost convicted in trial, all convicted also -- said one thing after the other after the other making the statement about associate, the end, start stopped making comments. in that room. >> investigation indictment broke, after u.s. had lost its
bid to host the 2022, to cut it, and a lot of discussion then that it was just a revenge move by united states because they were so mad thought it was stolen what is take on that. >> i heard that number of times, seth, for those don't know i won't say -- but portrayed as ultimately -- scheming international man funny what is happening, and he -- interviewed where that was announced and
then to order that investigation and then he called the betty lynch and that is what it's all about. because that investigation was already open and running five months earlier was already the open investigation. so that would have been run out of the d.c. office. and that's where the main justice is occupied but it isn't even the most important district in new york city. and people don't want to believe that but these guys were not even thinking where the case agent reports on
december 3, 2010 with that sense of how unimportant the new york times even on the front of the sports section. and then said the reaction said that's great what does that have to do with us? that is my answer. and with my travels not to justify this but there is a lot of outrage around the world how can the united states go and indict people from other countries? they don't have four practices
with other countries in the world. so in many cases they barely step foot in the united states probably never but through the fed system in all likelihood to get jurisdiction. and the other part that is bewildering to us that bribery is commonplace. so this did not make commercial bribery a crime. and as a deduction on your tax return i'm not adopting it but then they call us hypocrites.
there is a perfectly good business but you have to hire a business lawyer and he will tell you. [laughter] and then you support this elected official and get your deal. so really it is justified but and they really of the cooperators. to make them understand what they have done. so the way that they work that
and then he would send his personal driver to win the series and then to put them in the back of the truck and then drive back with a couple hundred thousand dollars of cash and then to take a commission. >> has anybody come up with a close estimate how much was paid in bribes for the world cup? >> and with the pressure commission investigation they hired an attorney by the name
of michael garcia the equivalent of the supreme court of california and then with the investigation that is the amazing curly cue because russia banned them and then all the other funds. and the swiss don't have as much vigor and he went and said find out and the funny thing that you ask about that and then to keep track of all
the stuff and then with that was over but unfortunately they destroyed the computer. there is no records at all no harm no foul. and that was the consequences of this scandal that you might put the tv set on today that putin has his personal guest really a classic of the year putin gets his workup with the
voting policy with a secret ballot and then brazil is probably so irritated and then said of u.s. canada or mexico so some would say that is just more people to bribe but if you want to bribe the guy from sierra leone? and then joining those 32 teams and that makes it geometrically more complicated that has been expected to pull
>> i know what you talk about that has to be in the directors cut. because it was too long. but it is a crazy story meant to be the most famous soccer player of all time and ultimately because of that power then he was pushed out of the sport and there is supposed to do something with the 94 world cup and not officially but to have that
folks to create a better set of consumers if income and wealth and to make a quick point with the difference between income and wealth. that is what people make and whatever is left every day of our lives every paycheck and on that score minorities in the united states make 70% of what the average american makes. but wealth is a different thing. wealth is what you invest in what you all and your net worth so both parties make
what would you guess? there are some understandable reasons that is the case and with those pension systems but they don't have the money to buy things. and for them to act on. so it is predictable with that difference but 10% is huge. for white americans own and that means they don't have the ability to get a loan to start a business so communities of
color have a hard time advancing and so for all of these reasons for those to be talked about. >> that conversation tonight i can't wait to hear and i'm sure that you can't. what do they say to each other? what will it be? that's what makes this particular job so exciting you never quite know the psychoanalyst from the things from our pockets and then to discover with