arsenic coverage live monday starting at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. thursday, the fbi's peter struck a former senior official for the counter until intelligence division looks at the 2016 presidential election. we'll have live coverage at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span three or c-span.org and on the free c-span radio app. i'm next on book tvs afterwards. south carolina republican tim scott and trey gaddy discuss their friendship and time in congress. there interviewed by jim. afterwards is a weekly interview program with relevant guesthouse interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. >> thanks for joining us, senator tim scott and trey gaudi, i love your book.

but unified i love the title. the best part of it is, the picture on the cover you two laughing at each other tells the whole story. i want to talk about how you met and the little chaos that was involved when he first got here. the first thing i would like to talk about is your campaign. they are both notable in different ways. trey, you decided after never running for legislative office before to take on a veteran republican and incumbent congressmen. jim, you jumped into a crowded field in charleston with the sons of two iconic republican leaders of carol campbell a very different campaigns. it look like an uphill battle from the beginning. trey, what made you decide to jump into a congressional race? was it a midlife crisis? >> that is the best question i

get. i can tell you i left the district attorney's office. to seeing evil personified on a daily basis takes its toll on your soul. my wife and mom were clear, i needed to go do something else. i'm not sure congress sees that. you know, the district incredibly well. he represented it incredibly well for long time in congress. i've only seen two incumbents in that time. it's a lonely feeling. i was naïve to think that the relationship could survive the race, quite frankly. so, why did i do it? my mom and my wife said that if you are not friends with the

covenant, how would you judge the performance. which you think that maybe you could do better? and i did. in hindsight, the job is harder than it appears. i am probably better in the executive branch than the legislative branch. . . >> it was difficult but in the end he and i could maintain a

healthy friendship and frankly just the chance to represent the district and in that district that saw the beginning of the civil war to elect a congress member and to speak so well of the evolution of the human hear heart. then i found out we are a unique and amazing state following your incredibly large shoes, i am thankful to be there. but it was in no small part because of the evolution of the human heart that has allowed me that two guys from

the single. household to find common ground in this body city it is very hard to find. >> he edited out the one time he was running for lieutenant governor in south carolina. and we were both with the liberty fellowship i will be there all the gubernatorial candidates are debating and i would want to meet you. i had heard his name maybe i'll go maybe i won't but i read the paper the next morning and mr. scott was a

no-show for the debate i thought he has no chance he can't even show up for the debate but then we found out why he was running for the house of representatives the max that worked out just fine. >> did you have a runoff? >> i did. >> you were one-on-one? >> there were five people in the race initially anna congressman and myself. >> that is one of the reasons why for the runoff. and paul did a great job and to be on my a game. almost award to appreciate and

respect the guy on the other side and for paul to be as complementary and still remain somewhat friends. >> and you mentioned what a great state it is to represent but for those who don't make mom -- don't know south carolina more industrial manufacturing it is a great state. but you both want the general elections in july. washington both have mr. smith go to washington feeling. so i know that i had to be chaotic. so tell us about that experienc experience. start us off. >> i had no legislative branch experience.

and they were tremendously helpful it was a large class but make no mistake he was arguably the best member of that incoming freshman class. he was elvis pressley of that class and very gracious. [laughter] but i think he was the president of your freshman class if memory serves me correctly so back home that is a big deal. and i remember him declining the opportunity to run for freshman class president. that is how popular he was but he didn't run. and that is a curious strategy decision what better to go back home to say i am so popular even the members of the house like me he didn't do

it and he took a different path. i started to watch him and then one night we had dinner in the basement of the capitol hill club and i said i told him you have earned every bit of political capital you have don't let anybody else spend that for you. >> my theory of mr. smith goes to washington actually is a sin in them for deer in the headlights. i felt like a fish out of water. i didn't want to go to washington i wanted to stay in south carolina. but you talk about the issues then to be a candidate so i have to go to washington. military or public service? that's washington. we might vote for you for

lieutenant governor but he be a better freshman candidate. he is like the david that kills goliath. [laughter] he has done pretty well. >> but i find myself really not wanting to challenge the incumbent. but eight out of nine getting in the race that wasn't the best strategy looking back. [laughter] that when i arrived in washington with the strategy to get there was not enough to be successful. but the thing that i found was he was grounded. it was not based on polls but

experience. having somebody that was so grounded and anchored made it easier for me to refer to him on important issues brick home 80 myself the original four horsemen. >> somebody came up with that because he was a self-promoting moniker. [laughter] >> nickel veiny now the budget director and now jeff don't denigrate congressman from upstate and they met regularly for a long time. i have a few things underlined and want to cover but trey, you mentioned early in the book that television was a very powerful force.

i remember if you got on tv as a freshman they thought you were relevant and that is what you say. then you have stature. did you manage to get on television enough? >> i had a choice i could rob a local community store or just wait for my time. but i do remember having dinner one night in the four of us and tim graciously excused himself to say i have a prior commitmen commitment. then we look at the television screen and he is on fox news. he could've been on television anytime he wanted. but i think even to this day he declined a lot of opportunities to be better known and more visible part of it is humility and part of that is to a within a certain being with.

i'm not sure who i would give that a and b to but those were the two best misnomer's. >> as soon as you walked in the door that had to be hard. >> this new title wave of republicans coming into congress and one of the best part of advice i got was from trey in the political capital that you have you earned talking face-to-face don't let anybody spend that political capital for you and make sure you are responsible for how you use your political capital and i was a little more naïve with politics that was necessary advice. so i would turn down eight or nine out of every ten

interviews because i'm not looking to be the face of the party. the mission is to restore hope and create opportunity so if i could advance that mission i want to be there. there is not a lot of reasons outside of that mission and frankly figuring out how to get out on tv but he could figure that out. >> in my goodness gracious. >> but on the lighter side with his signature is his wardrobe and the different appearances looking back home one day then the next day it is the short hair in the beard. so you comment on socks and everything and we gave each other a hard time. >> you will appreciate why i say that.

>> i'm the only one that shows up in congress with a dark suit and white socks is that a fashion statement? no. so we all wore white socks. [laughter] >> he had the ability just not only to impress you with what he said but what flows from him it shocked me with the hairstyle, the tie. he had one suit actually like the windowpane with these large silver. >> i remember wearing that suit on the floor of the house. later they said it is a violation of house rules to where that. >> because so often we are

like icebergs. to know trey gaudi is just the tip of the iceberg with the prosecutorial skills and abilities we have seen that. but watching him was a bipartisan group of members sitting at a table and laughing until your stomach hurts it is a very dominican experience. so that really opens up both of you and that friendship together is so much fun to go through. there is a page here in the book you talk about tim and he has humility and knows when to speak and this guy is

strategic. very complementary of someone else in congress. >> he is my favorite person in public office i say that privately and publicly i say that as somebody who doesn't want to be a judge anymore. i'm not saying that you curry favor with the senator. [laughter] he is just a really good human being who happens to be in politics. i watched him and now i have a chance to experience the day that i realized there was something different about him is we have all been the victim of things that were less than complementary something really wasn't complementary and i

reached the end and were not going to put up with this anymore i went down to his office and went right past the secretary and said i'm going in to see him. we are going to do something about this. you cannot allow people to say this. he said close the door. this will be good. we will hatch a plan and he said now we will pray for them. i said i love you but i'm not praying for them. then he said used to here with me while i do. he sat there and prayed by name and are not very many people that do that. >> talk about your dinners together. despite what it looks like on television this pulls you in all different directions that we really don't have time but

you have taken time to have regular dinners together. >> what we try to point out i'm not sure if he was the first person but if you want a friend in washington by a dog. so to have the opportunity to break bread with someone you admire and respect and understand their sense of humor to make this experience here in washington which can be very difficult more enjoyable or fruitful, and frankly using the natural gifts and abilities and to use those in the purpose you believe is your mission so breaking bread with trey is that i pray it continues to be so.

they say stay in touch. there he is. [laughter] but i enjoy having dinner with him when you have dinner with him rarely is the occasion that someone doesn't stop who is not from here and thank him for his service. it is his experience but it is meaningful and significant to look into his cranial cavity about the perspective he takes on important issues and you will find very quickly that although he could be branded partisan but his primary objective is true. he's sorry but he will find the truth and that is hard in

the city so i am thankful to him to have a friendship with someone who's more interested in the truth and winning. >> now we have gotten to where we plan the dinners first and everything else is planned around that but initially we found each other at the end of the day. neither one of us drink although i'm thinking about starting. [laughter] we have similar belief structures. i go back to my office about 9:00 o'clock so our schedules are similar but i miss the days it was just the two of us because nowadays people have found out if you want to be a senator go find gaudi at the table and then you will find scott. those that joined us for those

dinners and republicans and democrats get along better than we let on sometimes and over meals if you want to find some common ground it has been an unusual group that has joined us for dinner. it is what i look for at the end of the day no matter what else happened i will have a dallas cowboys fan who says he is for safe schools. [laughter] >> that i played a role in this relationship when i left the senate in 2013 the governor called and when i went from the house and the

senate i told everyone i would be back every day but something about that little walk down the hall makes it hard to get back. what does that due to the relationship? so what went on when there is that they can see in the senate? and trey's name was mentioned and that could have put a wedge between your friendship. >> it is very easy no congressperson you could run once instead of three times. and then to see the responsibilities to your country of united states senator i will tell you that it is a little more fun to be in congress in the senator. i am housebroken so the fact

of the matter is that i enjoyed my time at the house but when you called on a thursday morning and said you were leaving, my first inclination is don't. we leave you --dash need you. you will be missed i'm still puzzled so for the next several days we have lunch and dinner several times making a decision i'm not sure who it will be and then having an interview with the new york times about all those people want to be the next senator. and he said the most amazing thing you could hear a politician say. don't choose me. for united states conversation

who has an opportunity to weigh in and says for god's sake whatever you do, don't choose m me, if you want to see character on display, to have the deference to take yourself out of the running and not just to say choose a qualified person but that is not only gutsy but that is character and that in 2012, two years into the friendship not knowing him before to take himself out of the running for a seat he probably would have gotten. >> and then the new york times talks about you playing together and saying nice things about each other instead of trying to one up

each other you must've had to do soul-searching to decide he didn't want to be united states senator. >> i do have self-awareness i do know what i think i am good at all would not be good at absolutely that was the best choice for the state of south carolina and governor haley's decision has been validated on a daily basis. number two her picking scott was stabbed best for me. i got to watch him show up for barbecues. it is exhausting. you have to raise a lot of money and if she picks someone

like me others that ran the next time would give us hope that once you run in a contested republican primary twice, i have done it come i didn't want to do it i didn't like to be gone representing one sixth of the state not to have all the responsibilities you are expected to be in two places at the same time. so it has been validated but yes where your strengths and weaknesses are. >> i will say that no question in anyone's mind he would've been a fantastic senator he decided to do that. he decided that wasn't in his best interest he has had the

worst assignments in the house. [laughter] and then to define himself as a strong advocate with his mission of justice to have the passion in a way that is inspiring and encouraging a lot of us that is populated by republicans and democrats alike to represent that fountain of wisdom and frankly you want the guy to stick around. >> then you say tim does all the work. so i have to be somewhat charismatic with the security

detail but they are super nice. it's really hard for me to know when to stand or not to stand he says stand up for tax reform. >> we take those we do a lot of similar interviews. but i would say even more importantly i get some of the benefits of his job without ever having the responsibilities for the consequences. he is so good if he knows i care about he is so good to say that i tell people back home the only thing better than having a senator is having somebody who is you can weigh in on the issues that you like without dealing with all the other things that make the job not as fun as it seems.

>> there is a lot of good parts senator a great state to represent you talk about in the book the shooting i know that broke all of our hearts. you brought your front lawn -- friendship closer together but talk about what happened in charleston that not only unified your friendship but really the state and the country to a large degree. >> that is something we try to share in the book. it's hard to go back to a time when one person wants to create a race war by walking into a church to sit through a

bible study for one hour. being welcomed into the environment and your only objective for being there to start a race war in the home of the beginning of the civil war and to get that call on that wednesday night there has been a shooting. my uncle attended that church for over 50 years also senator was the first person to call me so for then portray gaudi

was very different than im from a premium or philosophical position in the faith perception in the middle of a racially tinged philosophy to have him be the first person that i wanted to call for support and for somebody to anchor. was you. he is an anchor. that just says so much about our state and our friendship and what was not going to happen in charleston or south carolina. which was a spark around racism and the race war starting in our state.

one of the reasons the catalyst for writing the book was more that night unbeknownst to me i could not think of a better person i couldn't even think. i just dialed. i hope our country as you read through the book sees as we bring this country back to one nation because of that was a provocative past over the last 50 years of change and transformation the human heart but the first place the black man turns is a white guy from

that state and with a provocative history there is hope for the rest of the country to bridge the divide that the american family cancer down to have a hard conversation about the path forward. there is hope in 2015. progress in the midst of what could have been an active regression. it truly is one of the greatest blessings coming out of one of the greatest atrocities. for that commitment from south carolinians and then the world watched 36 hours later and then to look into the eyes of a murderer to say there is

hope for you. the world took notice about was happening in our state but i am hopeful that the unity that came out of south carolina is infectious for this nation and to remind everybody were better together. >> you are on the other part of the state talk on the phone and you wanted to do something. tell us about that. >> i could live 1000 lifetimes i will not know with like to be a man of color. period. people denied simply because they were black. i could do everything in my power to try to understand what that means. but i've never been black a second of my life.

so i had to go to him. i really wanted frankly to capture somebody with rage and i told my wife i will go to cornerstone because i know the pastor and i'm going to go to a church where they will question god and say how could you possibly let this happen people who wanted to do nothing more than learn about you and your son. i will go here with anger and that is what i'm going to do. and i went and was befriended by a couple and i got there. i figured they knew who i was. there is a white visitor going to a black church i figured they knew who i was that they

welcomed me with their kids and we sat down and then people spoke then finally the woman said excuse me we don't know who you are. who are you? and that is when it hit me they didn't invite me to sit with them because i was a district attorney but i was a white visitor at a black church. so you did not provide me the anger and the rage i wanted but maybe the pastor well but he gave a beautiful sermon about forgiveness and unity. it was hard to listen to. but one of the reasons we wrote the book is the perspective my 20-year-old daughter would have. there is a perspective that

people who voted for trump have that if you can't understand how people voted for trump then what better way then somebody who did. i have family members i don't know how anybody could vote for obama twice. go ask somebody who did. so if we can start interacting with and listening to people who have that perspective that we need or that we are hungry for. >> you talk in the book lucian to division but let's start with that. you have a great section on your perspective of law enforcement a lot of the racially charged incidents around the country. see your perspective is both very respectful so talk how

you see law enforcement and the role that they play or they need to play. >> god bless every single law enforcement officer out there who desires to do their job and do it well. i spoke recently at the annual banquet and said thank you for their service. but the vast majority their jobs and go home to their families. as an african-american not every single officer is just to do their job and go home. but basically driving while black i did get some tickets

but one that makes you feel less than you are and it is hard on the soul to be stopped and investigated for something you had nothing to do with. that colors your picture and your experience with an officer to have his hand on the weapon come to your window and all the windows are down and it colors your picture that is why talk about my experience to say that this is real and there is something we must address and fix between the relationships between law enforcement community and communities of color. i talked about it in unified tray and i put together a

working group of african-american pastors and leaders in law enforcement officers for the road forward dialogue to open a conversation. you don't start community at the beginning of the conversation it takes time to get to the step you are actually communicating we spent over one year to bring people together around south carolina so we could prepare for the next situation when it occurred. law enforcement officers do a fantastic job 95% of the time but when it doesn't go well we have to have a painful conversation because our country starts to unravel and me i say this and mean every

word of it a major national security issue of this country is the discord in this country that pulls at the relationships of racial perspective. from a cultural perspective. when that happens you will find that russia specifically will meddle in the elections and use that social discourse as one of the ways to incite division in our nation and that is very, very dangerous for the future of this country. >> you were prosecutor working with law enforcement to see the good and the bad i guess that is one of the things that brings you down. >> i am biased toward law enforcement that is why every time i have ever been stopped is because i should have been

stopped and a lot of times that i wasn't and should have been i've never had that experience but i need to hear that from someone that i have a relationship with that doesn't feel like he needs to frame it in a certain way. he is confident in his experience and that frees up other people i remember in columbia i made a comment regardless of what color you are you want a law and order community and i remember one of the all-black pastor said i'll tell you what i hear i hear lock them up. i am saying that is the furthest thing from what i mean but but he said that's not what i hear. okay i need to know what you hear.

so tim and i talk a lot about the justice system not only that is respected but is worthy of respect and i saw some lives of color devalued because of a reluctance of witnesses to help law enforcement. so there is a vicious cycle a person of color is victimized by a crime the police and prosecutors want to treat that the same way they would any other case but if the witnesses do not trust law enforcement or, forward to help build the case, then you are devaluing that life so it is within all of our best interest to have a justice system worthy of respect and if that means having frank conversations about driving while black or mandatory minimums or disproportionate number of people of color with

this offense where white people go to pretrial diversion we need to have that conversation with somebody is not mad and it's good if you like them back but the importance to recognize the danger of law enforcement officers what they face every single day i have had experience with law enforcement but i also recognize there is another side of the coin and to have that burden to call the widows is nothing to compare to be the widow. in the police department was murdered on the job she was left with a little boy to take care of she has dedicated her

life her mission now is to help law enforcement officers be respected her salvation is fantastic but here is a widow i felt a burden to call but you just have to hear it isn't on me. it's on her. and in greenville south carolina the law enforcement officer killed last year but the reality is there are two sides of the coin one is to tell the whole story. that people of color are the only victims but there are widows and children growing up without fathers or without mothers or law enforcement officers killed in action. and trade is a wonderful job telling a story about how

these expectations of a black father was exceeded because this guy had the wherewithal and the heart the truth wherever it may be found. i would love to let people know as it relates to that expectation. >> what he's making reference to as a district attorney man had a daughter murdered and her father came into the meeting as we do with any parent but he did not take a seat. it was clear that a white guy could not value his daughter's life.

that is what he said. i do not think this system will value my black daughters life. so i decided to handle that case myself and we went to trial i gave closing argument convicting and throughout the process he saw there were people that valued his daughter's life i bumped into him twice then and he has greeted me like a long-lost friend and that is a steep price to pay to see that someone in our justice system that prosecutors and cops have a responsibility that we will treat these cases just as strongly.

>> what you write about in the book that is related to that character of mentors that came into your life and change your life in perspective for somebody to care about you and help with your values and most thankful to have people in my life and expect more of me than of myself and this is how the lord works. >> amen. i had the privilege as a single parent my mother tried to keep us off of welfare with the best absolute example of work -- work ethic she was a nurses aide so she would clean the bedpans and work on patients 18 hours three days a

week she was not as pleased with me that i failed at mom -- bumped out of high school and my mom works really hard. i remember her coming into my bedroom to say i have been praying for you but i need to introduce you to new mito -- new motivations why learned the motivation of the switch. but then i was taught incredible concepts of creating jobs is a better thing so income is great but prophet is super great. he started to sow the seeds of entrepreneurship whether working for yourself or someone else work for yourself.

if you do so you are in charge of your future. my mentor paved path. unfortunately he died at 30 years old. very young. i do him the last four years of his life. he dedicated a part of that of the first four years of my new life part of the reasons i committed is here is a white guy a black kid he did not know living next door to the chick-fil-a. and then starts a friendship that starts to change my paradigm. he breathed hope at the time in to a kid that needed some

direction and he harnessed hope and saw something in me that i could not see myself that my mother was telling me about and then those intersected at the right time in the right way and i have dedicated the rest of my life to make sure that i honor those two lives through hope and opportunity. >> it is a great story. >> you have one also because you had a sunday school teacher that expected more of you than you did of yourself. >> he owned a chain of grocery stores first of all i had great parents they are both still living that were phenomenal but sometimes you listen to somebody else's more than you do your own. but he taught me that power

unconditional it didn't matter what i had done he would say i have heard worse i think a lot of times he had not but unconditional positive regard with the ability to look at life from someone else's eyes whether men of color i was only a handful of white in the warehouse and that's why he put me there you are doctor sun. you've got no idea how people live i will put you in the warehouse in the summertime and you will work alongside of all the names that i could remember 40 years ago because he made me experience life through other people's lives he lived long enough

republican elected to congress but died before wearing nyu to preach at my funeral and lawyers talk a long time left mac. >> it is a great book and you talk about solutions. what you have is very different people different ideas or different parts of the state but you talk about solutions and that is to identify common ground so let's talk about that as we run out of time. >> and unified i try to talk about a simple formula to enter into relationships or friendships of people not like yourself. you need to establish rapport

seven seconds or 30 seconds fit show interest in something in the other person and that will start the conversation. just that we have a little bit in common if i ask you question that credibility you have on that topic lends itself and then you have permission to talk about a problem don't rush to the problem but take a step back to see credibility to talk about the problem. if we do that then we will have notified can confront the challenges because we do with the challenges of our country. >> it's a great point we always talk about our differences and our common

ground. how do you see the solutions where we are. >> talking to the two guys who served in the senate you know this better than i do but it is and increasingly lagging indicator. reflecting what the voters want and the conversation needs to be had. and most in common. it is shockingly similar. and in pluralistic society and contrast is good. conflict is debilitating and

and immediately judging what they say and having a 20-year-old that doesn't agree with me on politics i love her so i might as will spend the next ten minutes why she believes what she believes. we do that with her family members so go find someone you're not sure you have anything in common with and try. there is a reason progressive democrat before he went out to the memorial service there is a reason that had nothing to do with politics. that is what they have in common.

>> and it reminded me regardless of how different we are we have much more in common into happen differences. and we miss the fact we love a lot about our country and each other. and with the good times. and chairman of the band ghazi cal. and then i can tell you. how proud we are and your character to represent the state. i know you will land in the place that makes the country

better. thank you for writing this book i do hope all listening will take the time to find out how we can unify the nation. it is a positive message with opportunities on the backside. >> thank you. >> kings for being with us today.

>> you wrote a really amazing book. so tell me what prompted you to write this book and now? >> things for the opportunity to chat with you. as a transgender woman and an advocate and a fellow advocate.