tv The Communicators Morgan Reed App Association CSPAN July 16, 2018 12:31pm-1:01pm EDT
zero so welcome in the app industry is 10 years old and they were nearly 4 million apps to choose from. "the communicators" is the executive director of the dc-based top association, and he's our guest on "the communicators." how do they fit into the overall ecosystem and telecommunication? >> guest: essential you talk about it being 10 years old. we recently released our economic report. the apple economy is
$980,000,000,000.4.7 million americans. way to think about it as it's not just the game you play when you're bored on the bus or want a distraction in the car. it is literally woven into the fabric of every business at every level. what we have seen in this gets to the telecommunications side, that the storefront bistro contact with the shipping department companies to have contact with the salesman in the field, which all feeds back into the just-in-time manufacturing process that needs to know we need 10 of those who are in green the entire supply chain once it mobile. he wants it available everywhere and available at all times. the mobile ecosystem in the app ecosystem is the foundation of a complete change in the way business operates. we call a cloud plus mobile and that's the way we are living today. as you say, without that part of
mobile common a really nice piece of glass and some games you can play. actually the merger of the two elements to change the world we live in today. >> are apps regulated in the same way a telecom company would be where you exempt from the privacy and security regulations that other space? >> we are not exempt from the regulations. the regulation of the app ecosystem falls into whatever department they would normally be covered. those applications have been used by a covered entity, an insurance company or hospital needs to make sure they comply with the laws that govern head. for the most part they fall into the federal trade commission and unfair and deceptive trade practices. so really, i know i shouldn't say this as the head of the app
association. it is the easy access, quick available software tool, but it is software. we've done a really good job of putting it in your hands away you want to use, when you want using an information you need to >> joining our conversation is steven overly. >> thank you. i want to follow-up on this privacy. particularly in washington and even in europe where we saw in may that general data regulation go into force. what impact has that had on developers? >> i think it's a great question and it's one of those where we are still trying to figure it out. the app association is not just american base. we have 5000 companies around the world. but what's been transformative about the economy i was describing to peter is my smallest member, she's a
one-person shop issues in international business. she has global clients around the world that she serves. the impact for small business is figuring out how to buy one, 21, too, three-person shop and comply with a bit of a patchwork of regulation. a second part has been a work in progress. we still figure out which version of gdp are to get specific. there have been letters and advice from the article xxix working party to lay out certain things you need to do. those aren't actually part of a decision yet. for a lot of our members, what do i need to comply with? how do i do it? most importantly, how do i communicate to my users whether they be based in the united states, europe or somewhere else entirely. right now we are trying to work through the elements of gdpr
from the client perspective. what i do like is it's an attempt to establish a new dialogue between the people who collect data and the people they collected data from. in a sense, that part of it come in the aspirational side of gdpr is something my numbers all embracing. the part we need to figure out how we manage is okay, that sounds great. had i put into practice, how do i comply? >> are they grappling with practical uncertainties? do you see members pulling away from europe or avoiding the market or how did they approach this question? >> unfortunately yes. i need to live and let the dust settle into some of us go through process. although one of the bigger guys take the error first to figure out how to do it. for the most part, members have been finding the best way to comply, especially in terms of
communicating with their users. i think that gets to one of the core problems. a roomful of privacy professionals will all nod knowingly and stroke their chins about how things are. we've done a lot of user testing. the way they want the information is very different. i would guess pretty much everyone looking at me through the camera right now has been getting an e-mail flood of gdpr notices. i'm also certain those people have not read their e-mail box full of gdpr notices. that tells me we're not doing a good job communicating with the user. that's part of a need to fix. >> what does a solution to that look like? >> we've seen some good first attempts. apple kind of led the way with just-in-time notification. in other words, instead of handing you a 14 page document that tells you the possible uses of your data, and the
just-in-time notice on your phone when you get the pop-ups that says this application would like access and it does it at the moment. or your microphone or data. not early, not late, but asks you at the time we are most likely to care. just at the time it impacts you. that has been a big change. elements like the purple triangle that tells you when location is turned on. little notices and using a lot of feedback, human feedback to engage with you where you are rather than where your lawyer is. >> we saw california lawmakers test this month has seen a consumer privacy law in that state. what is your take on the approach they took which has similar days to gdpr and the idea the states are starting to now regulate this. they think they find privacy important. as i create a problem for app
developers or anyone to have a patchwork of state by state laws to comply with? >> guest: stephen, you hit the law there. remember they just talked about, a lot of members are globally even though they are three or four men shot her four-person shops. if you think about it from the perspective of wanting to do right by your customers and your customers and that means telling your customers what is going on. if you have a patchwork of laws that prevents you from telling them in a certain way requires you to use certain language and yet you create confusion for the user. one of the problems we are facing is we still don't have comprehensive privacy legislation in the united states. we have gdpr, california. i don't think the end result will be a more informed consumer. if they industry that focuses on compliance, not engagement.
>> mortgage rate as president of the app association, is there a difference between what's available on andrade what's available on apple and is there a privacy difference? >> the two major platforms has been competing on privacy. apple has been the most vocal about taking how they approach privacy. some is a business model difference. android and google in particular is about making sure they serve you an advertisement and so they want information about you. apple is living the product in the experience on that product and experience is what they're selling. android is different because it's monetization is different. i think at the core of a, using apple kind of take a much more strident approach and say we believe the people who purchase our product have the following interest when it comes to privacy. the way that impacts us in the
terms of service, what information are developers can download, how they have to handle at once they've done it through terms of service and their entire process. now what is interesting is most of the applications of any size or consequence around both platforms. what you are looking for is how the developer builds a culture of privacy thinking regardless if they are building a progressive platform and android with a more privacy centric platform at apple. our developers look at that and say what is my culture? how am i handling data and how i communicate that back to my user? the platforms matter. they are competing on privacy. there are differences, but we have to take the next step and say what we do with the information. >> host: to return to stevens california question, net neutrality something else california is looking at
developing on its own. our app developers susceptible to net neutrality regulation? >> again, net neutrality regulations, refers to isps, internet service providers. if on the other side of the bridge so they are not impact did in the sense that they are not regulated at this time. it is a little different for them. that falls onto carriers. >> so much attention has focused on the big platforms, google, apple, facebook. who they are sharing it with. at 8153 or e-mail accounts. what roles do a app play in the privacy conversation and what do members need to do to continue to hold consumers? >> i think it's great use the word trust decided that the core
at the core of what this is about. it is a very interesting place to sit atop an organization that is 5000 companies as part of the membership and there will be people, hopefully none of my members, but that hammer the data in the wrong way. i think what you have to know is what are the mechanisms already in place in the government to do something about that. in that regard, we as an organization have taken a certain position the fcc needs to be more active companies to use their bully pulpit. not in terms of making law, but enforcing laws on the books. i once had the ideal outcome is that our members see an impact on the very company that they know for a section of the companies that they not that they can look back and say now we understand what the four corners are.
how do we put that into place? i see the role sp1 where they go after specific bad actors. here's what they did wrong. please don't do anything like this in the future. that is what is really helpful. this gives us clear path forward by going after and if it is misused from the ftc determined that so. let's take action. >> what was your take on the piece of july 2nd of this year, asked her to separate the app developers 53 or e-mail, talking about gmail. and stamina inboxes. >> it's an interesting question you raise about differences between apple and android.
i think that what you have to look at is what they are doing truly something where the user isn't aware of it. if that's true there should be action taken against them. the use of your e-mail is something the application is doing. i will look and provide you with the contact information or other information that's actually relevant and vital, then that's okay. how would those developers communicating with the end user about what they're doing. in the case of the article if you have companies taking advantage of a permissive click box on yes, that is something the platforms can do more. it's a specific violation of terms of service or something
where it's a loophole being exploited, let's look at that. let's not move to where the core app you use or as part a system. you've got to allow the user to decide where and how their data is shared and used. as we look at all of these situations, the first question we have to ask is what is the user's involvement in it, how are they in control and if they are not in control, how do we give them the control back? >> you mentioned the ftc and we have a full plate of commissioners seeking comments on how they can keep the markets competitive in the 21st century. what would you like to see or what do they need if anything in terms of endorsement power or additional regulations to crack down on these bad actors that you preference. >> i'm glad you mentioned the fact they now have full slate. that is something they've been missing for a while.
i'd like to see them stretch their legs with the regulations they currently have. are you familiar with the children's online privacy protection act? we spend a lot of time working with the ftc and yet from the time of the 1998 and we had almost no real enforcement actions. i think their enforcement team did a good job behind the scenes of quietly telling people how to fix the problems, but they certainly have an incredible amount of power in the case of others to go under existing authority. so, right now i'm not hearing a lot of clamor for we need to give the ftc more power. okay, guys, what are you going to do at the power you have. >> mr. reid, what about the security issue? apps can be said or doors or backdoors into information on one stone, correct? >> no, not the backdoor
statement. remember that inside of your choice. you wanted. you want to app that helps you connect with your family so it's never a backdoor. it's always the front door. somebody needs to be picking up the phone. >> last year "the communicators" went to vegas and we were told specifically to take facebook, which is the most downloaded app off your phone because facebook has access to everything that you're doing. every click on your phone. is that an important that a app has access to that sort of thing? >> i was enjoy the hyperbole of the security crowd. that's a bit of a hyperbolic statement. it's possible to get it. at the core of the question being a is are you happy with
what facebook is doing with your data? is it appropriate? given the scrutiny facebook has been under congressional income internationally, legally, those are questions that facebook is probably right at this exact moment continuing to revisit. the place facebook has to get to his people love our product. facebook is widely used, but are we telling them how we are using it in a way that they are both comfortable with and aware of? to your question, if you're going to take facebook off your phone, why? what is the reason you are taking it off. if they aren't doing the right thing with your information or you think what they're doing can cause you either harm,
absolutely. that is a choice to view the user in the gap we are having right now and it has all this information is i don't think we've done a good job of telling people why we need it, what it's for, how we use it, how long we keep it. basic principles of how i manage your data. that is at the core of it. the one point i would put in defense of our industry as we run into a situation and it's appropriate to be on a show called "the communicators" were finding a way to communicate that becomes the most difficult task. about two years ago, there was an enormous effort undertaken by the end tia which is called the sharply privacy notice working group. literally 100 of the best privacy experts around the world all sat in a room once a month and we went over and over and over how to can indicate with users information in a short form that would appear in your
smartphone. tons of work, brilliant minds in the realm. we built the software and took it out into the field and user tested it. unfortunately, the expert patients at a room of brilliant privacy experts and expectations of the common consumer were wildly different. what we found was the language that people use, the way they absorb information and what they want to know is very different. so the part of the problem everyone is having right now, it happened to facebook if you watch the testimony is their basic position once we told you we were doing this. didn't you listen? that tells you as a parent of two children sometimes you have to change your communication style to figure out how to meet your audience where they are rather than merely from a compliance date, which is they are in the legal texts. that is the gap we are trying to
fill. i don't think i would characterize it as well if you've got facebook on your phone you can rip it out. the question you have to ask is doing what facebook is doing and am i happy with it? >> the other debates in silicon valley and here in washington around the question of wellness and whether technology can be addicting and it is harmful to users in the long run. i want to get your take on this argument that technology maybe has addictive properties and web app developers of the industry can do in response to that. >> i think it's a great question and one that i think you're seeing the two leading platforms take a role in apple. is that the worldwide worldwide developer conference when apple announced that they were rolling out a new program to really help people manage their use and kind of get control over their time. control is at the core of that. i think when you look at the way people behave with smartphones
in the time they spend, part of where they are right now is a bit of a cultural shift. that is something the table stays on the table. at the beginning peter mention the fact that this is all happen in a decade. i want to say very clearly that this technology, where we are ennobled is the fastest adoption in the history of humanity ever. faster than fire, faster than the wheel, faster than the printing press, faster than the microwave. no histories had this widespread use against all groupings as mobile technology and smartphones have. the best way i can describe it as right now we have put at your fingertips and fingertips a three-point 4 billion people access to 10,000 years of collective human history for each of these goals to tab
videos is not the hands of three-point 4 billion people around the globe and we did it in a decade. the question you're asking is what is the cultural impact of that and how are we adopting culturally to happiness always on, always available information. i would like to say that is something apple is working on, google has announced around in something you'll see the industries take a more responsible view. you mentioned wellness. what can we learn from the way people behave to do something better. i spent a huge chunk working on the medicine side of this. how we use these devices to do a much better job in managing type-2 diabetes, and managing glaucoma can any other condition or chronic condition you might have. how do we take a lesson from the nature of the phone and the national poll you feel to say
hey, have you taken your glucose test? have you taken your insulin or there is even a video about in the south telling people pecan pie is not an actual vegetable. having people notified about how much sugar is in something. that side of the shift of having this device in your hand, how do we get that part to reward you for doing the right thing or engaging in a way that says we need to do walking or any sunshine. that is the part i want to harness. the other side will work on is a global culture when it comes to engage in electronic devices. >> we are learning more and more now that there's new site to technology. there's also some drawbacks. what is the impact if people start becoming more aware of how much time you're spending on the
sun finance, whether they're getting as much out of it as they hope. the app developers who have monetized this whole experience. >> at the core of it, again we are in an industry that is functionally less than a decade old, barely five to six years old when you consider penetration numbers. we are still figuring out how the best model to move forward is. the biggest growth we see a mobile right now is the business side. what i said to peter earlier, the idea of how i connect my sales team with my shipping department is by manufacturing. right now, that is all paid for. if you look at your phone right now, i'm sure you've got it been kidnapped you didn't pay for directly. all of your other services, a large part of the economy right now is built off of either clicks and mortar or some kind of enhancement you want to do.
what advertising is still an important part of that, it's not the only part of it. that really is at the core of how much will be driven by advertising, how much will be driven by direct payer support through a service or a longer-term contract. >> host: morgan reid, how did you get into this business? >> guest: my father was a computer science professor in teacher in fairbanks, alaska. i started on the keyboard very early on back before there was the disc, a little cassette tape. it has always been something that has been available to me from the technological level and i think that right now is an interesting thing you bring up from that is. we have 500,000 open jobs in their industry. not jobs, the jobs in which
there is an actual opening headcount with a request for your resume. the skilled at that i was able to develop as a child growing up with a dad that is literally the first computer on the block in fairbanks alaska. i remember going to university when he was using punch cards on the computer. how do we make the experience unlikely that had we make the experience i was able to garner having a keyboard in front of me in learning to program more easily. that's something we do from a jobs and economic respect is. >> apple versus pepper the very quickly, what is it and what is the opposition position? >> apple is an interesting case because of the core of it it is a question of when you buy a app through the apple apps store, are you an apple customer? for my membership, we are very
concerned and basically say well, you are not involved. you're not really the customer of the app. at the end of the day, all of the innovation you see in your smartphone, sure, apple has a couple of phone apps on the come of it all the innovation comes from numbers. we are the driving force that makes your phone and your tablet interesting invaluable, useful. we think of you as our customer. we think of u.s. or customer so much so that we don't really care what platform you are on. if you use an application and provides a service and decide to switch from and write to apple or apple to enter it, you are my customer regardless of what platform you are on. maybe you go back to blackberry. i still want to consider you my
customer. it is every visitation of an older case, illinois brick and he was ultimately the customer. that is what the supreme court is looking at. our interest is we think would be devastating to the small business and innovators at the result her for the court to incorrectly determined that we are merely employees or vendors of apple inc. were google inc. ..