were born. we put the handprints in the cement, thought that would be where we would live forever, in southern indianapolis, but then obviously god had different plans for our life, and i'm very grateful for the amazing opportunities and the privilege that it's been to be in a public family and to serve in public life. and i think that you know my parents have o shown me how to take it all in stride and how even at times when it's stressful, to just be really grateful of for all those challenges and for how they make us closer as a family. >> watch afterwards sunday night at 9:00 eastern on book tv on c-span 2. in toronto, former george w bush administrator david frum, and former white house political strategist steve bannon debated

the topic of populism. this is an hour a and a half. >> you don't know if your facts were demolished, you don't know which of your arguments will be destroyed and you're not rattled, you're shaken up and you don't know what to say but you have to say something. >> that canadian is the you can't -- [inaudible] >> i think it's time for this toxic binary zero sum madness to stop. >> i haven't seen nobody be a bigger snowflake than white men who complain. mommy, mommy, yeah you have to share. this ain't your world, it's

everybody's world. >> barack obama has systematically rebuilt the trust of the world in our willingness to work through the. >> you must not talk to anybody in the world any of our allies. >> whatever you want to call the system, a mafia state a futile empire it's a disaster for ordinary russians. >> he's the candidate of america firstism, building huge walls are part of his plans mutt all be related to the size of his -- hands. >> what a pity we can't have a vote between who prefers bold brits to curly haired canadians. >> we don't require divine -- to require right from wrong. on pain of death to be able to have a moral argument. no. it won't be obsolete for long.

we do not want sympathy or pity we want opportunity. >> it's an appalling slander to me to the muslim religion. >> i never said the word muslim in my solmination. it was a muslim free. >> it is that kind of restraint and sober-minded sensible intelligent form policy that obama represents, so i guess what i'm telling him is he is sort of a closet canadian, vote for him for god's sake. >> good evening ladies and gentlemen. >> host: good evening. thank you for being here for the munk debate on populism, it is my privilege to organize the debilitate series and to once again act at your moderator, i want to start the proceedings by

welcoming the north american wide television and radio audience tuning into this debate everywhere from c-pack, canada's public affairs channel, to c-span, to cbc radio ideas. a warm hello to our online audience who's watching this debate right now via or social media partner on facebook live, and on the munk debate website. www.munk debates com. and finally hello to you, the over 280 people and counting who braved some protests tonight to be here in this hall for this important debate on this vital subject. all of us at the munk debates thank you for standing up for substantive serious conversation on the big issues changing our world. thank you. [applause] bravo.

and thank you also to the aeroia founding who has the courage to support the series year in and year out for over a dedicate. let's have a warm applause for the late and great peter munk. well tonight's debate is happening we all know days before these critical midterm elections and it will tackle one of the most important issues facing the western world, the rise of populous politics. we are going to ask tonight from these two debaters to answer some important questions. is the west living through a populous sea change that will irrevocably transform our politics? and can these long-standing liberal values, liberal values of trades, society, politics,

push back against this populous surge and reassert their primacy in the 21st century? well let's find out by getting this debate underway and getting our debaters out here center stage. arguing in favor of tonight's resolution. be it resolved, the future of western politics is populist, not liberal, is the former strategist to president donald trump, and global populist companier, steven k bannon. (applause) speaking against tonight's motion, be it resolved, the future of western politics is populist, not liberal, is the best-selling author atlantic mag senior eddoor and staunch critic

of president trump and populist politics, toronto's own david frum. [applause] now for those of you watching online we have a rolling poll and hashtag going tonight, that hashtag and it's trending already, trust me, is #munkdebate. you can go on to our website www.munkdebates.com and be part of a rolling pole that will assess their performance and allow you to vote on the resolution. finally we have our countdown clock. this is one of my favorite innovations here at the munk debates and debaters pay attention because this is important. in the final minute or so of each of the different segments of this debate this audience will see a clock appear on the screens. when that clock reaches zero

join me in a loud round of applause and that will keep the debaters on their toes and our debates on time. now, this is going to be fun. this is a little bit of different experiment for us. we're going to experiment with live voting on the resolution. all of you received a clicker. it looks like this. everyone take out their clicker. we're going to ask you to vote on the resolution. is populism the future, can liberal values push back? if you are in favor of the motion, i want you to press a on your clicker. that's a or the number 1. okay? if you are opposed to the motion there's no do-overs here, you're going to press b or number 2. you can't vote in the midterm elections but you can vote right

now. so we're going to let those results tabulate a bit. we're going to give people a few minutes. i'm going to remind the online audience that they can go to our website www.munkdebates.com/vote we have a question live there right now that lets you vote on the resolution, and see how your fellow online watchers are going to i gauge opinion at the start of this debate. let's close that question, we've all had a chance to vote and let's see the results. what is this audience thinking as it goes into tonight's debate? how is public opinion divided in this room? can we see those results up on the screen? there you have it. 28% of you agree, 72% of you disagree. an interesting start. now, we're going to ask a second question. we're going to ask right now,

what your views are as to your own state of mind. are you likely to change your opinion, over the course of this debate? should you hear something on stage that could cause you to switch your vote at the end of tonight? so if you think you could change your vote, press the number 1 or the letter a, and if your mind is set, if you're fixed here, if you're coming in with a view and you don't think you'll budge from it, press b. or number 2. and again to our online audience you can do the same thing via our online poll at www.munkdebates.com. i'm going to give a few more moments for audience the input their vote. i think everyone has done that. let's get those results up now. let's close the question and show our debaters how much opinion in this hall is in play. take them a moment to put the

numbers pick up on the screen. there, 57% of you so a majority here potentially could change their votes. so this debate is very much in play. let's get it underway. we're going to start with opening statements. eight minutes each, a bit longer than usual to give the debaters time to articulate their views. and as per convention, the person speaking in favor of the motion will go first. so steven bannon i hand the podium over to you. >> steve: thank you. i want to thank the people of toronto, the munk family for hosting this, having me tonight and for the men and women outside who are exercising their freedom of speech rights to protest. it's not a question of whether populism is on the rise and populism is going to be the political future.

the only question before us is it going to be populist nationalism, or populist socialism. to understand the intensity of the populist revolt on the global basis we have to go back to the beginning. i want to take you back to september 18, 2008, washington, d.c., the oval office i think it's 10 or 11:00 in the morning, president bush, david -- [shouting] david -- [shouting] [booing] [shouting] [booing] [shouting] [shouting] >> host: we respect your right to free speech but we have am i correct audience we have plenty of other people who want to

debate to go on so could i have a round of applause for this debate to. thank proceed. thank you. [applause] >> host: let's have a long round of applause. thank you. for her free speech rights we appreciate that. [applause] >> host: thank you very much. [applause] [applause] [applause] >> host: okay. so, if i have your attention on the stage we're going to follow a policy tonight, this person has been cautioned, if she does not stop she will unfortunately be asked to leave this debate, so madame it is your decision. you can stay, or you can go. what are we going to do? >> stay.

[applause] >> host: okay. no sorry you're still engaging, officers we're going to move forward with our plan. if we can please remove the person from the hall. (applause) >> host: thank you very much. (applause) >> host: big round of applause to the toronto police services this evening. [applause] fabulous job. [applause] . .

. >> no. the local class that runs washington d.c. that's who did it. what was their solution? to bail themselves out and create many.

the balance was $880 billion when donald trump took the oath of office, generate 20th 2017,it was four.$5 trillion just like the bank of tokyo and the european central bank the party at davo's bailed themselves out afraid of the deflationary death spiral there is a corollary to that is not a free bailout pension funds have the biggest gap in history you cannot underwrite a bond for a public school or waterworks you only get 2 percent. the little guy bears the burden hedge fund name in the last ten years the greatest run in history for everybody else it has been a disaster.

57 percent of american families cannot put their hands on cash. right? [laughter] 60 percent of jobs it wasn't donald trump or the populist. the populist and nationalist movement is not a cause of that donald trump's presidency is not a cause it's a product. when i stepped into the campaign the central numbers was at 70 percent of the american people believe for the first time in history that the country was in decline and the elites were okay with that what is an education of the southern border? china korea our health system or education.

with the donald trump we have turned that around. [cheers and applause] - - f. >> this is a very tough crowd we will have plenty of time to go through this. [applause] at davo's the scientific managerial cultural elite that run the world has left a financial wasteland 2d couple from the working and middle class it should not be lost on you that they are elected the day angela merkel leaves the stage. trumps economic nationalism doesn't care about your race or ethnicity or color i have a

whole night to convert you progress on the 20 percent it doesn't matter your sexual preference or your gender. i said economic nationalism. work with me. it doesn't care if you are a citizen look at the results. the lowest on employment in history the lowest hispanic unemployment in 30 years wages rising manufacturing jobs coming back. the populist nationalist message and its policies are working and it is spreading. the revolt in europe and now latin america i get contacted every day from asia. africa. the middle east.

we are at the beginning of a new political revolution and that is populism. the only question before us is a populist nationalism that believes in capitalism giving a little piece of the action to break up crony capitalism? big corporations and big government? or jeremy corbin and bernie sanders type of socialism? because the party at davos and the elites have too many existential events with the rise of china, the $7 trillion spent with the wars in iraq and afghanistan the deregulation leading to the financial crisis in 2008. where we are today in this overleveraged society because most of you in this room were headed to another financial

crisis. that is the question before us what form of populism? i hope tonight that the good people in toronto will listen with open ears as we debate this topic. thank you very much. [applause] . >> now we will put eight minutes on the clock you have the stage. >> thank you. >> we are all here to welcome steve bannon to president trumps least favorite country. [laughter] [applause] i worry that some of those protesters may have confirmed the idea that canada does have a pillowcase national security threat. [laughter]

but i would like to begin by taking the protesters question very seriously to answer this question. why are we here? what do we hope to achieve? this isn't to have entertainment or do a show but here to engage the most important and dangerous challenge that liberal democratic constitutions have faced since the constitution steve bannon advised the president on his way to losing and he helped turn the campaign around he has been an advisor to the president a result breitbart.com came in urgent force transforming the way conservatives look at a new kind of political movement and all of that is his work. so what do i hope to accomplish tonight by being here with him tonight and to

engage with him? first i want to speak to those were genuinely undecided there may not be so many but you are important. does the politics that he talks about offer me anything? should i listen to it? and i'm here to tell you it offers you anything that does not care about you. it does not respect you. [applause] steve bannon has said in january it is anger and fear that drives people to the polls. to those who are undecided i want to speak to those of you who see president strums politics for what it is and to resist it. i know how worried you are. i know the fear that many feel. and a stand here to reignite your faith and speak to your

courage many of these symbols remind us this isn't the first time the mockery has faced thugs and crooks and bullies and would be dictators and build themselves up by tearing others down at the first time that call themselves the wave of the future. they were wrong then and they are wrong now. [applause] we are here to tell you what our parents and grandparents were and if they can overcome those challenges we can do the same the last people want to speak to which is the most important but to those who see trump politics for what it is and supported anyway. many people are excited by the joy of destruction to back things they could never build

smash things they do not understand. steve bannon has talked about burning everything down her modem and i'm sure he means metaphorically but there are people who do understand burning non- metaphorically and i am here to speak to all of them and say you will lose. you will lose. you have been winning. but you will lose. and when you lose your children will be ashamed of you and disavow you in the future will not belong to you. [applause] and it starts tonight. now we have a definitional problem because we are using a word like liberal or populist

and a strange many people made the point as a lifelong conservative to be on the liberal side of this debate. i'm not a liberal. i'm a conservative but what i and others historically sought to conserve is a liberal heritage. we try to conserve estate that does not steal a media that does not lie to protect the rights of all voting is available to everybody even if those are counting the votes are afraid of those who may count against them. [applause] and what is populism? it claims to speak for the people that it always begins by dividing the people because of the way they pray or gender or somebody they love or how they conduct themselves for some other reason they are not

the people they are those people populism begins by dividing the country between those people and us that those people do not matter and our people do there you see president trump doing this again and again 52 percent of the vote of women that's not true it's white women but the others don't matter for him it is only part of the people those who think differently for the clandestine foreign powers are enemies of the people even though they exercise their righ right. why will this populist movement lose? for one reason. it's a scam. it's a lie. it's a fake. it has nothing.

i don't mean that the leaders are crooks, although they are. [laughter] presidential is a crook and i don't mean that looting hungry other post soviet scale financing the party with russian money and stealing the parliamentary funds and donald trump is running the most unethical administration in american history. [cheers and applause] but i mean it in another way because on its own terms what do they deliver? trump is running the family business loan - - the economy like his family business tells everybody what a great job he has been doing. [laughter] 250,000 jobs created in the

united states that's a good number 26 months under president obama when that many jobs were created in five minutes with 300,000 jobs were created it isn't donald trump's doing no matter how much he says it is but the biggest trade deficit and illegal immigration was rising faster than in the two years before he took office. there will be a lot more talk tonight but i want to ensure - - assure all of you liberal democracy is the strongest it has ever been since 1945. [applause] the new populism is based on one assumption. [applause]

. >> we will do something a little different tonight we will have timed rebuttals we went both to engage with what they heard in the opening statements and get the debates underway we will have two rounds we will put three minutes on the clock. >> this is the oldest trick in the book to spirit - - smear the deplorable's. hillary clinton tried that and we saw that how it turned out. the reason donald trump in the populist movement roses because of the administration you work in. you keep talking about the ability to make these decisions what all the scumbags and the thieves in the populist movement the reason as liberal democracy you call it that because they are winning 70 percent of the

vote they are winning with two thirds of the vote donald trump wins with over 300 electoral votes. [laughter] tough. tough. and watch president bush liberal democracy as a free-market capitalist the deindustrialization of the united states to see the great sociological study it shows a direct correlation between factories and the opioid crisis. they took away people self worth and dignity.

the second was the great decision of $7 trillion that's not breitbart but the analysis still 17 years later with 10000 dead with casualties and $7 trillion spent and then the financial debacle on their watch. it is easy under those terms with racism the populist movement is not racist. look at the economic benefits coming through president trumps policy. if you believe for a second. think of obama he didn't understand the math of 880,000,004.5 trillion it is easy to create things when you flood the system but destroy the basics of the judeo-christian family which is saving. you cannot save anymore. [applause] you cannot have a pension plan. that is all the work of the

political class looking at the populist movement as racist as you know, phelps but it's not it's a backbone of our country. here in canada you are built upon the same building blocks of the little guy or the little person. the common good? [applause] i did work for president bush i served him in one of the darkest days in american history i was in the white house that day online 11 and i saw with the american spirit could be. steve bannon voted for president bush twice. i believe that's correct. one other thing in common this is actually the second time we have met the first time as i made an appearance ten years ago i got a call from banc one

with a wall street banker with a hollywood producer would i be interviewed with one of his movies? at the end steve bannon sent me back to work in one of his limo so i am very surprised to see my old producer friend aspiring as the latest populist. [laughter] . >> but it is absolutely true democracy is in trouble now because the failures of the past and the financial crisis and through liberal democracy in the thirties there would have been no fascism if the twenties lead to permanent success the failures of the system are not a reason to turn to an evil one. [applause]

we have to renew and repair. and steve bannon and i talked this is what we have in common of those republicans he was one of the first people to say things are not fine we saw the stress that was happening to middle-class incomes. we saw the tensions rising as wealth became more unequal in the united states. the populist movement seized those issues to exploit and destroy and overthrow. i see them as reform and constructive repair and renewal what you are being asked to vote on tonight isn't if everything was handled well in the bush years. but how are you going to respon respond?

what type of world do you want to build? it is between destruction and renewal or freedom the side that respects everybody, all the people in the politics that defines the people as the basis of the nation and the suppression. >> david needs introduction he's one of the most significant public intellectuals in the united states and in the conservative - - conservative movement and made a film of the financial crisis i need his intelligence and wisdom and perspective it is a very high priority for me other than the populist movement it would have worked. [laughter]

we are trying to stop elections we will win elections we love elections we will win. victory begets begets victory. we are the true anti- fascist fascism looks to work it - - worsen the state of the national security policy and deconstruction of the administrative state. [applause] the progressives only the last 40 or 50 years built up the administrative state think of those departments that we have. the entire program like the chevron exemption the supreme court it isn't about deregulation but taking it apart brick by brick that trump is argued for for his life for the last 30 years

that is putting your country first and not the nationalization of citizenship value. if that trump program is so bad how did we get the new nafta deal? the key to that t4. >> i forgot i am in toronto. [laughter] is to create a geostrategic manufacturing base to counter east asia but not to gain the system to mexico. the benefits of this as you see through the supply chain that has bilateral deals like the original nafta when the economy goes up ten times you

will see the supply-chain start to come back. reasonable man can disagree. the american first national security policy the rules base of international order is on those deplorable's from the 38th parallel that network of commercial relationships trade deals from europe to the persian gulf president trump tries to reinforce that and make nato work make those golf efforts work. [applause] all the way to the south china sea. make our allies. >> david that is exactly what we are going to do.

i will not over moderate so let's do another round and see where this goes. . >> how did we get nafta? a two-story one - - a true story but to his surprise president trump won the election he thought trade with china would be an issue so he asks his son-in-law to find him one jared kushner went to the amazon website and typed in china and trade and pulled up a video by david navarro it's very exciting lots of claims he does have a phd in economics but no peer review. anti- trade advisor to the united states. because when president trump was making notes he wrote trade is bad.

how do we get the new nafta? a lot of responsible people surrounded trump and tried to encourage him to do as little damage as possible to the most important trading zone in america although he crashed into the podium the screen is not too badly damaged and nafta is waiting there to be repaired who can do things like negotiate for the economy no constructive work got done it was just basically presented from being destroyed so talking about nationalism and globalism. north american lungs breathe chinese pollution russian airliner shut down malaysian airplanes we all have to work together. it's one planet. [applause]

we love our countries only through countries can we exercise our democracy but we work together with friends and partners he got nafta by bullying not treating them as partners so now canada and mexico are less powerful even though that was true obviously we can work cooperatively together but with america first are hungry first where france first or germany first it gets progressively less attractive if we name the other countries trying to put themselves first. to say we will build a community of nations of course, they have clashing interest but they are stronger when we work cooperatively to have peace and prosperity.

that is a liberal idea in the truest sense because the things we're arguing about for 200 years is a relationship of human beings and cooperation. [applause] and that is what's on the ballot tonight. [applause] . >> the nationalist populist movement in europe as i have met the leaders i am not an advisor to these individuals i set up a group to be that interconnected of tissue to help them focus on the parliamentary elections next year but not one leader, not one has said they want to destroy the european union. they talk about the sovereignty of their country. they want their countries back they went their countries to be sovereign entities in their

citizens to be empowered not report to the transnational entities with no accountability. the ecb and the e.u.. they want to make the european union, not the united states or south carolina or georgia but a collection of sovereign individual states that work together. why is that so hard? why is that demonized? why is the nationstate the essential building block of the world? why is that so scorned? why is the term nationalism so scorned in demonized? people want subsidiary they want as much control as they can as citizens and that's the nationstate. donald trump gave it back to the american people. . . . .

if we allow the millennials, te millennials are nothing but 18th century russian serfs right now. they are better fed, their better clothes and in better shape and have more access more information. they don't own anything and they aren't going to own anything. because of what obama did they are 20% behind today where their parents were and they live in a

gig economy. there is no pension plan, there is no career. bad by the way is the biggest potential for populist movement is the millennials because they are going to see the logic of what we are talking about. once again and david we are not saying we shouldn't have elections. you like it now because the establishment republican can't win any elections. what you serve up -- [applause] >> good babe bring me the trotted to defend the obama record? [applause] this is a weird argument we are having at the end of the worst month in the financial markets as a national crisis of 2009. the financial markets are telling us the trump economy is careening for disaster.

steve bannon shows a lot of manufacturing jobs. since the bottom of the recession the united states economy has created 1.2 million manufacturing jobs. two-thirds while barack obama was present and two-thirds since donald trump has taken the banner. more tariffs and higher interest rates. [applause] steve bannon astutely said with the giant financial crisis heading our way not created by ben bernanke. it's created by the options of his presidency. populism always ends in economic disaster because populist economics is not interested in the results and not interested in the future. it's exploits the motion to gain president trump on the campaign trial has compared the democrats policies to venezuela.

his policies are inspired by juan perez and argentina. it's running a trillion dollar deficit in the fiscal year of biggert deficit than george h.w. bush ran and the bigger deficit that george bush ran in the second gulf war and all of this is coming to a head in the financial markets are telling us this. it is a funny thing to talk about millennials millennials like every group can feel when they are respected and they are going to demonstrate on tuesday who they feel is not protecting them. [applause]

but this debate involves an another way because what we are really arguing about is not who is right or wrong although of course i'm right. we are arguing about to whom does the future belonged. it's possible to be right and still to lose but the feature big guns -- belongs to my side of the argument and the future belongs only to those you care about it. those who immolate the future is the policy the trump administration and the high inflation high tariffs prosperity they don't know what they want to do. they only know who they hate and hate does not build. [applause] >> this is just too good so i'm going to put another three minutes on the clock. steve you are not getting off easy tonight. another three minutes to come back on david with those points. >> this is the whole thing.

the other sphere which i never thought david would stoop to that given he is a public intellectual this whole thing about hate. donald trump hate muslims, right eason islamophobe. what is the first place donald trump went? hang on. [laughter] hang on, hang on. hang on. bear with me. the islamic world had reached out to us. there has been limited engagement during the obama administration. the obama administration was engage with iran so the first

summit in riyadh was set up to talk about and discuss re-things that they brought up. number one how do you eradicate islamic terrorism from the pace -- face of the earth? number two how does the error broke come together as one with israel to stop the expansion of iran and number three the islamic world says we know we have to go through some sort of maternity. can you assist us in some why? we have to do this ourselves. three aspects that they asked for even before they won the election when trump went to the u.n.. how is trump trump hader p-1 overnight said hey here's a system of how we stop islamic radical terrorism because it's going back on your societies today in western europe and the united states. look at the improvement we have made in just two years. look at the revocation of the physical caliphate of vices that was done in conjunction.

remember since 2014 isis had 8 million people under slavery. they have oil wells that they were taxing people. i that was trump coming together with the muslim world to destroy it. in addition it was the beginning of an alliance of beginning of a partnership and as perfect as it is in that part of the world the airport in israel and the united states and the nations of europe to stop the expeditionary expansion of hezbollah and iran. the third was to assist the arab world in any way understanding just like christianity they had to do it to go through its own enlightenment. and yet trump's smeared every day as an islamophobe and a hater. he is anything but and it's his actions, his actions. look, it's the signal in the noise.

he puts it out every day. the noise i understand is a flash bang grenade, okay? [applause] you guys have been superb. you have practically made me irrelevant to this debate and that's the sign of a great debate when a modern does have to step in. i want to cover a couple of questions that i know are on people's minds watching and in this audience. even i'm going to start with you. the midterms tuesday a critical test of his presidency. he seems to have campaigned out of the populace playbook a hard message on immigration some would say shocking message on immigration. a hard message on china and our trade and the demonization of the media and so-called elites. why isn't that a powerful proof

point for the effectiveness of those populist means you seem to have with the american voter is supposed to your liberal idealists? trump is president because of something else he did in steve bannon was there. donald trump campaigned in 2016 as the one republican who would respect and protect america's health. we gave an interview to.your odds. it's watched by a lot of people. 80% of the audience has a household income of less than 30,000 a year. we are going to come up with health care plans that will be so good and so much less expensive for the country and the people and so much better. lack of detail but here's the commitment. what do you do?

nothing. health care under donald trump is worse. his administration is trying to make it possible for insurance companies to people who are already ale and the democrats are talking about health insurance. the democrats should have had the answer to this question. he got the larger share of the popular vote but the ball didn't bounce right for him in the electoral college so was left to barack obama to do. those are the people we are supposedly here to protect that if we are concerned they need a health system that works for them and donald trump has loaded up. [applause] >> he midterm question also, you said it. this is a critical test of your guy, this president. if he does not maintain both houses his presidency is in real

danger. according to you that is the end of his populist movement or that's the end of your populist icon. >> we are just in the top of the first inning for populism. this is a critical test, there's no doubt about it. if you look at what's going to happen i believe we will hold the senate and i think it's a complete dogfight for the house. if we lose the house of representatives and i've seen david talking on tv the trump program will grind to a hault. there's no doubt about that. remember we understand its process. brexit in 2016 are inextricably linked. they are no closer to a deal them when they first started. establishment wasn't just going to pat the british workers on ahead and say what a great idea. just like donald trump they are going to pat them on the head and say this is fantastic all your nationalist ideas.

he will win election after election after election and the trump base understands that. i anticipate the turnout but i want to say one thing to david. we want is a coalition. one of the first things i did was reach out to the put republican establishment for we had to win as a coalition just like the reagan coalition where he had economic conservatives and anti-communists. we had the same thing. we had the populist nationalist movement and liberty -- limited government. that's what needs to come together to win. in governing david returned immediately to the republican party our partner in the victory he said we have got it. give us the keys on health care. we have been working on this for seven years. the entire debacle on health care in that first year was 100% a republican establishment. it turns out they didn't really have an idea about health care. the same thing with taxes. we were going to start with the

adjustable tax the paul ryan worked for seven years on. 90 days that got blown up and we had to do the tax plan we had which by the way argued as many of you know in the oval office for a 44% tax rate for people who make over $5 million a year and i was blown up by the progressive democrats in the administration. the wall street guys of which president trump has realized was not the best thing to do. that's why he brought up the middle-class tax cut and last week. he's getting his sea legs. you don't start day one. [laughter] >> sea legs, that's a great segue. the best to say about donald

trump is the job is just too hard for him. [applause] the best defense as he looks cruel and unfeeling in bigoted and hateful but the problem is he has never run a large enterprise before and you certainly never paid his debts before so how does he do what? the buck must stop anywhere else. donald trump did all of these things. he signed all of these things. it's an amazing fact you do have to deal with other people and make compromises and build coalitions. if you can't do that you are not good at the job of being president. >> the economy is not only growing at 3.5 and some say 4% and under obama 3%. trump is taking liquidity out of the market in quantitative tightening. he is not opening up the spigots too acquitted -- liquidity.

he is the one that is saying hey the british can put up a combat division in the front to combat division and all the rest of nato combat division. i know it says $780 billion, it's a trillion dollars. it's a trillion dollars. we can't afford to continue to do that. it's not that we don't want to be engaged in the world but what trump is saying from europe to the persian gulf it's trade deals commercial relationships capital markets and american security. that has to change. we have to have partners like we have allies in canada and israel we are not looking for protectors is what trump as saying. i haven't seen and i don't want the discussion of populism to devolve to the trump presidency

i haven't seen a bad decision from trump yet. [laughter] [laughter] >> would the talks about trump and nato this is where a feel for the point of steve annan's position. steve bannon were the uniform of united states and i believe your daughter served. >> yes, she served. [applause] and steve bannon describes the meeting with trump tower and the russian state is borderline treason. [applause] so i accept that you believe in america's defense but europe president does not in this family does not and they are selling the united states. [applause]

>> david, do you disagree? let's talk about nato. donald trump is trying to save that alliance. people have to put into% of gdp at. you can't just continue on like that through may 1 at family put in a $30 billion supplemental just because of operational readiness. we are not looking for protectors. trump is more engaged in the persian gulf more engaged in the south china sea more engaged in the northwest pacific and more engaged in nato that a president in living memory but he's doing and away that says that deplorables it's all on their shoulders. it's their kids and their money. we are not an imperial par war. we are revolutionary power.

[laughter] >> if the suggestion is that deplorables meeting trump supporters is an example of one of the row bills of populism. one third is made up of nonwhite people which do not vote for donald trump and can they be omitted from the story? we have to be able as we see the united states to see it as it is. you were only up patriot if you love your country as it is not as you imagine it might have been in the past and the groups of people you think you not belonged there. donald trump on nato. [applause] donald trump made it clear to the campaign that it was up to him nato countries would not be involved. david sanger of the manner -- "new york times" if it's up to

him estonia is a nato partner. i don't need to talk about the trump foreign-policy. these parties do you advise their year they'll have some sinister murky connection to russian power. your italian friends and i'm not putting this on you. know you were the uniform but i know how you having worn the uniform can say that these people who have these sinister connections and no someone else does not have the interest of your country, my country and he is calling for all of these populist parties. [applause] e i want to return to russia in the second but my daughter when she had her last command comanche was at west point where she's on the staff. think she had 15 noncommissioned

officers all of them african-american or hispanic. i think something like 40% of the army today is made up of african-americans alone. donald trump understands that in the deplorables understand that. that's why hispanic and black unemployment is so low. one of folks as we have in the populist movement is to take 25% of bernie sanders movement and i've said this from day one. one third to 40% of the african-american vote and one third to 40% of the hispanic vote to working class. that realignment with the trump face would give us a governing majority for 50 years. it would be like 1932. 1.8 billion african-americans have voted for barack obama did not vote for hillary clinton. they weren't prepared to vote for donald trump and they may not be prepared to vote for donald trump now but if they

democratic party will be in complete shock on tuesday about the turnout of the african-american vote. and i think the hispanic vote. >> donald trump and his republican party has been remade it's not the party i believe in. they believe african-americans, they would allow them to vote and move heaven and earth to do it. [applause] >> the outcome depends on whether black people are allowed to vote. so many promises have said they are about to end the candidate is doing everything he can to stop them. what happened in 2016, it's true. black voter turnout dropped off dramatically from barack obama to hillary clinton. something else is worried about the election which is hillary clinton a small percentage of black people turned out to vote for hillary clinton and turned

up for john kerry. between 2010 and 2016 a lot was done to make it much more difficult for ethnic minorities in the united states to vote. that is not happening by accident. the plan. this is why populism is not the politics of some of the people. it defines some people of not eating people at all and enemies to be sent pipe bombs or the mail by the -- of donald trump. [applause] >> that's a question we have to address tonight stephen which is the incredible hate that it seemed to of surface during this midterm elections. you are the avowed architect. you participate in that. you are someone -- >> the travel ban upheld by the

supreme court of united the united states. that travel ban? >> thank you. you're someone who has participated in rallies for your democratic opponents are called evil and un-american. are you really going to say to this audience tonight that all of that the trail all of that populist rhetoric is not responsible for the spike that we have seen and the numbers are real in terms of political violence and even worse white supremacist terror? >> by the way hillary clinton -- >> we are getting off-topic here. this is the topic. >> hang on. >> answer the question. [applause] there is no correlation, none. >> explained. >> there's just no correlation between the rhetoric. the first individual was obviously mentally ill for many

decades. the horrible tragedy in pittsburgh with the massacre said trump was too close to these jewish people. he thought trump was too close to the jewish people in nine states. this guy was a hard-core anti-semite. how can you lay that on donald trump? the rhetoric is just as bad but the opposition media will not report it. please, spare me, spare me. just made a film in the first five minutes as the prologue. i took down lemon, i respect don lemon. to don lemon's greatest hits when he looks into the camera and says it's not donald trump's race. it's your your race. you are xenophobe and a racist. i cut the footage of antifa eating these people up.

somebody said where did you get this footage? i said hey it's a shot by the cable networks. shot by people and it's just never played. it's always trump supporters. it's always trump supporters that are the cause of all of this. they never talk about antifa or the intimidation. look what happened to ted cruz and mitch mcconnell. do not sit here and tell me that the left the democratic party instigated by hillary clinton and holder. holder said when they go low, kick them. that's never mentioned. the violence that is brought up at the democratic left is far worse. [applause] >> a few minutes ago steve bannon said donald trump kant distinguished the signals from

the noise. one of the things i learned is what the president says is what a president does. [applause] obviously president trump's in no way accountable for the terrible crime, obviously. what he is accountable for is what he didn't do decently afterwards. [applause] that could not find something in himself. that's a personal failure. the pipe bombs is a different story because that person was someone who was previously political. he became obsessed with donald trump and every one of the people who got pipe bombs was a named target of president trump's pick if somebody listened to air colder in decided to take them literally and somebody had gone on the kicking rampage and kicked somebody to death and had eric

holder posters all over his room i would see it contrite eric holder today. what did happen was the pipe bombs went to the people that president trump named who got pipe. >> david you just said president trump made them targets. they didn't make them targets. he never sat there and said they are targets. you can't equate the two. there are 330 million people in the united states and most of them like all people everywhere are wonderful but some are disturbed. disturb people like the unconscious mind seems to be taking it seriously to express themselves unintelligible. presidents get permission. that's why american society is not dissolving as we speak.

if people acted like a president the place of the gotham city. but there are people who are at the cusp and asking themselves or by behaviors normal? this is one of the reasons breitbart was powerful and unfortunately not for good. he can see the radicalization of this happened even in the so-called legitimate media. the crazy conspiracy theories and how much more by the way while of course no one wants violence how much more airtime he gives to subliminal anti-semitic messaging. subliminal anti-semitic messaging. >> everyone here's the way the george soros is talked about knows the text. [applause] and in a way i try, i can't put

myself completely in a person shoes but try to imagine how it feels to black people or mexican-americans are asian-americans or a member of any other group. when we hear this barrage and it seems like we are just talking talking about this one shadowy mastermind who bends the world through his will. not everyone else, just one person. we know what it meant and has a resonance through history. [applause] ..

. >> in your face every day. look at the op-ed that was

anonymous written about president trump with the rolling two in the administration they are proud to say we are the steady-state. that's what it is there is no hitting conspiracy certainly no subliminal that was written by myself and stephen miller he is jewish. there was nothing about that it was off at hillary clinton speech. this is what's dropped off every day they tried to delegitimize him as a president he has not been delegitimized this is a nullification project david that started from the moment that he won the establishment rejected him considered him a client - - a clown. to at least reach out to working people and said yes your concerns our our concerns

that's why we won michigan and wisconsin and ohio. trump did not use barack obama to go to places like iowa where he had one in the landslide before for these other districts that was the clinton campaign. that his total demonization i understand how he is treated people that's why we may lose the house. i disagree with the ideology but i admire the grit and determination because they understood something that the republican establishment did not get. donald trump is a transformative president and a historic figure. he will be in your lives ten, 20 and 30 years from now. [laughter] it's just not about the 140 appellate judges that are all federal society and originalist is what he's doing

from the legislative point of view. that is at the left is out there with the tea party why didn't they have been out there since april and may doing the hard work knocking on doors? y-letter? they have to stop them on tuesday or he will get further they understand he is transformative they understand he is historic and it will just keep on. . >> closing minutes - - statements will put five minutes on the clock. . >> i promotional - - appreciate my promotion to the republican establishment. [laughter] maybe that will help me get a reservation at the trump hotel where the lobbyists and a member of congress gather to put money directly into the presidents pocket.

if donald trump and the republicans lose on tuesday and they lose badly not because of the left whatever that means over 50 mascots going around breaking windows committing mayhem most are probably paid police informers. donald trump will lose because a lot of people who voted republican an every election since 1984 especially women will say enough. this is not me. this is not america. [applause] and across europe with all these populist parties none are able to get an actual majority of the vote so the secret of their power is not to win elections but to manipulate the political process and the media process to use those institutions to

corrupt media in order to exert power in anti- democratic ways that is what donald trump has been doing slowly corroding institutions. he is not a populist figure populism is excluding much of the nation in order to justify. but look at where the future is going. i would ask you for an act of faith but think what they mean that sacrifice that earned that. we wear these to remember people when things seemed a lot more hopeless when they do now and frightening when they do now. like in 39 things seemed worse

those people we are up against seemed more dangerous in those forces of good seem more divided but they prevailed and so will be. liberal democracy is stronger than it was because communists indecency the crew will always think the kind are weak but they will discover loyalty and patriotism are tremendous resources. it has been five years for those that believe in the things that i do no matter our identification if you believe in the executive that is accountable. if you believe those things so then history and those who fires the last shot.

not those who know what they are against but the challenge that we face and then to face that multiethnic society. and with respect and inequality so the answers that always means something dark. for the people that have done the right thing can look back on their records.

and on the other side of the aisle those that i call the histories graveyard of discarded lies ask you to vote against the resolution but for your faith in yourselves and that you have built in a better world based on mutual respect. [applause] . >> that was very good david, and irrelevant. [laughter] president trump identifies himself as a nationalist the other day. right? and the media went into a complete meltdown.

judge president trump as a populist movement worldwide and their actions and hold them accountable. they are not perfect. but i will tell you one thing. the little guy the people against the elite whether hungary or italy or brazil or the united states of america. the future obviously belongs to populism it is only defined by left-wing or conservative in right wing. deconstructing the administrative state to open the power of capitalism? or more state intervention in your entire life? because that's the future. the battle going forward is against bernie sanders and cory booker and elizabeth warren and that aspect of the democratic party that grows in strength against the resistance. that's the reality. the rest is just happy talk. look beyond the smears. look at the signal and the

actions. look at the populist movement that will reach out to take the nationalists. look how we accommodate the african-american vote something the republican party for decades and decades but too bad it never did. look at it right now 40 percent today agree with what president trump is doing on the border. because they understand the importance of that solution. i'm not saying president trump is perfect he would not say he's perfect he's a very imperfect instrument. [laughter] he may not say that. [laughter] i can understand the frustration and angst one of the senior public intellectuals and leaders of the bush administration of the republican party. look at the people that ran against trump in 2016 they

were the flower of a generation of heritage and donor money of cato and look at the quality of the people jeb bush marco rubio governor christie ted cruz. the best person the strongest field in the history of the republican party and donald trump cut through that y-letter? because this radical idea of free trade. particularly going against a total ego talent. mercantilist society like china. he talked about deindustrialization and he talked about where people's lives are in what matters that's why he won the republican primary and that's why he beat hillary clinton.

with a prominent colette of lotus political class. [applause] some girl i feel i'm not quite connecting. [laughter] this is the future. and not nativist but the deplorable's the great depression of world war ii and generational history and how you raise the generation and then it will be the country it will be something totally different america is not an idea we have the greatest land and resources with the

declaration of independence but our strength of the deplorable's just like canada it is upon their shoulders everything rests and they are the backbone of the populist movement they are not nativist or xenophobes but citizens of the greatest country of mankind's history and they not trump or bannon or mike pence they will lead us great one - - to the great troubles to come thank you very much. [applause] . >> ladies and gentlemen, a superb debate tonight if you think use first to the audience on behalf of both on the stage to come together

with those contentious ideas with those contentious ideas let's say thank you again. [applause] but then to talk about that moral and intellectual ideological divide that is a credit to this series we could facilitate that tonight. . >> it wasn't easy and to stand

up for free speech they made it happen bravo. [cheers and applause] and finally it goes without saying there was a demonstration tonight maybe even police were injured so on behalf of all of us thank you the toronto police services for everything they have done. [applause] . >> and then we will vote on this resolution how opinion has changed in this room as a result from the last one hour 40 minutes of captivating debate.

we will allow you to use your clickers again. if you are in favor of the motion. if you are against it pressed to. and where we do started at the beginning of the debate. and to see it was 20 percent in favor of the motion and then to have a fairly large group that says you could change your mind so now let's close the second vote on the resolution now giving a few

minutes to tabulate how has opinion shifted in the hall? i am sure somebody is having, there we are. 57 percent. 43 percent no. [applause] that is a pretty decisive results. congratulations. shake each other's hands. [applause] ladies and gentlemen, thank you we will do this again in the spring. 's b5.

>> and they were in the eyes of dead men. this was a terrible thought they had of death all they did to satisfy morbid satisfaction. >> one of most powerful presidents in american history has transformed the country for better or for worse to give up power to search for