hurt? yes, i do. >> thank you for spending two hours on book tv. >> the new c-span online store has book tv products. go to c-span store.org to check them out. see what's new for book tv and all the c-span products. >> professor paul kengor, who is carol? >> it's great to be here. c-span i think is the only true, fair, and biased unbiased program in america. she went on to become paul the

second and he would have been the first non-italian vote in 450 years. after the previous vote, john paul the first, he did call himself john paul the first which is interesting. he had been pope for only 33 days. he was an italian as well it was assumed his successor would be italian. they ended up splitting the italian boat around october 16, 1978. that's really choose the next chair of st. peter. so of all things, they pick this polish cardinal. p right out of the o middle of the evil empire. behind the evil curtain. the one country in the soviet empire whether communist war on religion was.

obviously religious person would see this as providential. going to the chapel and praying for the guidance of the holy spirit and thinking these selections. so did ronald ragan. non-catholic, a guy from illinois, ronald ragan, he saw this as providential as well.th they both see it as what ragan called the divine plan. the acronym is a phrase that ronald reagan in his closest friend advisory, clark and they talked about the divine plan so often that they had an acronym, the dp. he became like a grandfather to me.. so many times he would say the dp, paul.

i would say, what's the dp, the first time i heard it. the divine plan. strong sense of god's providence. the forces of freedom that we are trying to reverse communism's hole on the soviet union and eastern europe. >> what's the connection between march 30 and may 13, 1981? >> ronald reagan was shot. here in washington, not far from where we are right now. up by the washington hilton, he was shot by john hinckley. he was never part of any international conspiracy. he was trying to get the attention of jodie foster, the actress that could have shot somebody else.

that day, he looked in the newspaper, they beat the washington star and saw ronald reagan was speaking basically across the street and i think they print the president's itinerary and address in the paper today like they did back then but he saw look at this, i know where he will be. 2:25 p.m., ronald reagan was walking out after speaking to a cio audience and hinckley was 2 there and fired a number of times, 22 devastator exploder that exploded on impact. he hit a number of people. he also hit ronald reagan. it also attire of a car and sliced into dime sized, flattened diamond, razor edge on, it was in centimeters, the

main valve going into his heart. ragan at first didn't know he was hit. jerry parr pushed him into the back of a car, landed on top of him and prop him up and ronald ragan, he said get off of me, i think you broke my crib. there were blood bubbles coming out of ragan's mouth. he said, that's a long wound, you've been hit. they ordered the driver to go to george washington university hospital. ronald reagan tried to get out of the car and walking but he went down. he was 70 years old, outstanding physical shape. he went and sighed and required a lot of blood. he could have bled to death. then six weeks later, which in the catholic world, special meaning from catholics and john

paul ii, he's riding his white p mobile through st. peter's square, in the crowd is awestruck, turkish national and he's there holding a 9-millimeter concealed inside his jacket. been there all day, waiting and waiting. finally the pope's car came up and he reached out and fired three shots, hit john paul ii twice, once in the hand and once in the abdomen. just missed the main abdominal artery,ou he could have bled to death as well. they got him in an ambulance right away. they got through all the traffic in rome somehow at 5:00 p.m., 5:13 p.m.

that time on the clock, that's the date on the calendar. they brought him there, this personal aide and is now still alive in poland. they gave him immediate transfusion and he could have bled to death but he didn't. he survived and both he and ronald reagan would look at their survival as part of the divine plan, providence. when they finally got to meet one another, they wanted to me, ronald reagan wanted to meet with him ever since he saw video in poland. in june 1982, 1 on 1 for about 50 minutes in the vatican library, they believe god spared their lives for special purpose. >> ronald reagan considered pope

john his best friend. >> nancy reagan, who i interviewed via e-mail, never in person, i should have tried to interview her in person but my view on these things has a historian, if you can get to the person whenever he could, it's no problem for them. she didn't use that language. she used that language as well. ronald reagan, i first heardst this, i had written my first book, it was published in 2000, that's another story. my first real published book was 2004 and i was outta function in new york and it must have been in 2005, an american gentleman

came up to me and he said i've got to tell you this story. you got to know this. he was with two other polls who were running for office with the solidarity movement. within the elections, the solitary movement happened in june. ronald reagan was no longer president at that time. retired president, they asked him for a little campaigne advice, whatever else they could get from him. he said one, first of all, listen to your conscience. that's where the holy spirit speaks to you. ragan said that. then he also pointed to a picture of john paul ii and

said, he's my best friend. they wanted me to know that story. i was since able to confirm that through a number of sources. he wasn't really his best friend,er they were, ragan had other closer friends and people, ife he could have listed ten bet friends, he would have listed ten other friends. they work best friend in the waa you might understand but in this battle of a lifeline, ronald reagan had no better friend in the world than the takedown of soviet communism and john paul ii. that's not to disregard the role of margaret thatcher, the

solidarity movement in others but in this battle against soviet communism, he felt he had no better friend than john paul ii. >> you've written about the spiritual lives of two presidents. >> and one near president, hillary h clinton. i did ronald reagan in 2004 and followed that with george w. bush, 2005. my editor at the time, this would have been reagan's impri imprint, i've never said this before but they wanted to do another book. they suggested laura bush and i thought, i just don't want to do that. nothing against her. though she has an interesting story but i thought, that would require a lot of research and time. and how to study here in texas.

i couldn't get a year to do that at that time.ar i told them the editor was cal and i saidt i do however have another book that i would kindot of like to do, somebody i wouldn't vote for but i think they have a very interesting faith story. i said how about hillary clinton? and he said oh, yes. we got to do that. >> so we focused more on hillary clinton because she was the coming candidate and bill would be part of it. one of theased reasons that i wd to do that book, i wanted people especially in washington to realize that there's something out there called the religious left. during the bush years, if you are alerted ledgers person, then evu are a right wing fundamentalist, evangelical bible thumper.

everyone had this narrow caricature of what a believer was. i knew hillary clinton was out there who called herself a devout methodist. she was a religious left and she still is. i thought it would be good to lay out an example of somebody who's religious w but coming frm the religious left. also, a couple of surprises in the book that surprised conservatives and liberals ali alike, she was a big descendent of religious liberty when she was in the u.s. senate and even first lady. also, she was completely against same-sex. >> marriage. she explained that according to the teachings of her faith in scripture and tradition, her understanding of these things, you couldn't support same-sex. >> marriage. she changed, in 2012, right

after the election of 2012. if she changed for political reason or she had a genuine change of heart or progressive would say, and evolution in her thinking on the issue, i'm not totally sure. i guess probably only she really knows but that was something i would like to remind people ofus as well about her. >> what's the significance of what you call religious left? >> these would be people, when they stick to the same-sex amarriage, that's very telling. barack obama, who was united church of christ, i'm not sure which denomination he is, they both cited their faith for their belief in same-sex marriage. obama talked about the golden rule of all things.

do unto others. nancy pelosi even said, in my faith, teaches tolerance and acceptance. therefore, i accept and tolerate and believe in same-sex marriage. that's obviously around the catholic faith. there are people who are both religious left and going to their faith in order to justify their positions. when they do that, a liberals wo always tried to push faith out of the public square when it's a conservative like george w. bu bush, the reason i'm against same-sex marriage is because of the bible teaching it. liberals suddenly say, get the. faith out of the schools, separate church and state. when nancy pelosi says i support our position on global warming and the environment as an act of worship, they say bring that faith in.

martin luther king jr., the birmingham jail letter is a beautiful statement on natural law where he's quoting that. the left has nevereo minded peoe bringing their faith in the public square from religious left. as soon as religious right does it, they try follow and set up boundaries. ruth bader ginsburg sent an opinion on this case a few weeks ago, which was about a 44 cross in maryland. i wrote a piece for american spectator criticizing her position on the american spectator. i pointed it out there, justice salida, there are stars of david. one in south carolina, also

holocaust in philadelphia that includes the medical model of the burning bush, squirrels. you want to start taking down memorials symbols on government property. because you don't like the cro cross. c >> a world war one attribute. >> yes. the 49 fallen boys, they are going to erect a memorial. of course it's going to be religious. so they put up the religious symbol and the circuit court of appeals judge ruled against it, actually recommended they saw the horizontal arms off the cross. so the arms off. that becomes a pillar, i guess. the court ruled that it should

be allowed to stay. you want to talk about tolerance and diversity, how could you push it down? but my plea to ruth bader ginsburg, i wouldn't do this to a giant star of david. if you want genuine tolerance and acceptance genuine religious freedom, he don't go around pushing over memorials whether or not they"t are stars of david or crosses. >> you talk about influences that some of these people have had, ronald reagan, cleaver, hillary clinton. >> people who were very influential in their early lives. you don't get, they get to ronald reagan in history and i think not even hillary clinton without the impact of those

particular people. cleaver would definitely be considered probably more traditionally a conservative. he was ronald reagan's pastor in the disciples of christ denomination in illinois. ronald reagan was so close to cleaver that he was like a second father to him. reagan's david, cleveland's daughter, the fraternity and sorority, the girl worth the guys tent which was on your engagement. he thought he would marry her. but it didn't turn out that way. then cleaver was like a second father to ronald reagan. very close to him. the two most influential spiritual figures in his life would have been cleaver, reagan's dad was catholic. megan left his dad andle was cle to him but cleaver was more

important spiritually. hillary clinton's case, he was religious left. that's a classic example in both why these stories are important, these faith backgrounds are important. hillary h clinton had been a goldwater girl. her father was a conservative republican. what pushed hillary to the left, wealth was a big part of it. also a big part was the influence of don jones of the united methodist church in illinois. >> can you kind of debunk that? did he push her or did he ask her questions?

>> it's more complicated than that. he introduced her to some writers she might not have been familiar with at the time. kind of opened her to a wider selection from people in the faith. it was indeed really the wealth that she went to the left. pretty hard to the left where she became a fellow, penpals might be too long of a word but saw lewinsky of all things. community organizing. very secular, he was not religious. he was i think a secular jew. an acknowledgment in the beginning to lucifer, among three or four other acknowledgments and i rode a

long piece on the spectator on breaking down what exactly he said about and how he said it. he offered her a job. we now have these letters between them have been declassified, publicly presented that are out there. she ended up going, instead of taking the job with him, she interneded at a law firm in san francisco by jessica and robert, off the top of my head, they were so far to the left that they were communist. i can't member they joined the party or not. i think they were even at one time, on a watchlist in the u.s.

as to whether or not they were in the country. they were fairly far left. she ended up working at the law firm instead of taking the job. for hillary, she goes left late 60s and into the 70s. >> backed yearbook the communist, you talk about an influence on president barack obama. frank marshall davis, if you go to the wikipedia, it's probably scandalous. i get people e-mailing me all the time about that. he was african-american, writer, poet, i'm sympathetic to how he was discriminated against. my opening chapter to the book, i lay that out. no matter what later missteps,

the way he supported the soviet position, i have a soft spot for him because of how he was treated as a young man. you go to wikipedia, they frame him almost as a strictly civil-rights fighter but it was a member of the communist party usa. his number was 47544. remember that number well because i went through the 600 page file to look and look and look for. the five different digit number. there were never more than 5000o join communist party usa. it's a big deal if you join it. most american communists didn't go so far as to join because i didn't want to swear loyalty to union.iet

he said among other things that he would never join the communist party because he couldn't take that kind of loyalty. he took a pledge to ensure the triumph of soviet power inside the u.s. your pledged to what he called a soviet american republic. words he used in other african american poets was procommunist. one more as in the usa to make it the u.s. as a. most american communist didn't join the party because they didn't want to swear allegiance to moscow. all of the members off that, thy did. >> we'll get into that but

first, good afternoon.kt this is our monthly in-depth program. we invite one author in every month to talk about his or herk book and their body of work. this is paul kengor. here's a list of professors books. policy player, that's a book about vice president. ronald reagan in zero four, george w. bush, spiritual life, the crusader. the judge, william p clark, ronald reagan's top hand was in zero seven as was god and hillary clinton. america's adversaries many belated progressives for a century came out in 2010.

the communist marshall davis, untold story of barack obama's mentor came out in 2012. eleven principles of reagan conservatives, 2014. takedown from communist to progressive's. they sabotage family and marriage. 2017, the politically incorrect guide to communism in 17 as well defined plan is his most recent just came out this year. we want to hear from you as well, as we continue our conversation. we will put the phone numbers on rnthe screen. scroll through the ways to get a hold of us via social media. that includes e-mail. that's book tv c-span.org. scroll through that if you want to call it now or make your comment via social media.

we'll get to those as quickly as possible. speaking of, you refer to yourself as a cold war historian. in your politically incorrect communism, did i read thisut correct, you equated gay marriage with the communists? >> the book takes down deals with this. i first noticed before the democratic party and before liberals had a position to people like barack obama and hillary clinton switched, i read people's world, which is a publication, successor to the daily work. i check it every day, i checked the website so i started noticing -- i check every day.

the content doesn't change that much but i check it at least a couple of times a week. i started noticing in the early 2000's that they favor same-sex marriage. i was struck that because i was way before barack obama change. the democratican party i think s 1995, supported the defense of marriage act overwhelmingly.on 8812 or something like that. almost every democrat supported that. defining marriage between a man and a woman. i noticed early on, communists were supporting that. what does that have to do with class? redistribution of wealth. the ten principles laid out in the communist manifesto, abolition of land on property. progressive income tax. what does this have to do with

communism? >> one of the things he wrote about in that family, if you read some of these earlier writings, especially the frankfurt school and to the people who dealt with marxism on a cultural issue, one of the frankfurt people, he read that book. ... out in front on all of this stuff long before the democratic party. the first time i saw the phrase lgbtqia+ was in

people's world. i had to find outwhat it meant . i later found out i is for intersex, >>. to be as radical as you can get on the left that is the exact quote. i wrote a letter and you could find this on the website 1843

with the criticism of o everything that exist so what the communist wanted to do is break down from the very beginning an idea the set tradition the worldview in the roman catholic church. so that they have been willing to fundamentally transform all of these things before anybody else. the communist did not give you gay marriage but it is fascinating they were way out haahead of the mainstream left on these issues before democrats were. >>host: was never illegal in the country to be a member of the communist party? >> other friends of mine could

answer that better but the main goal i mentioned the hollywood ten when they were called to washington to testify before the house committee 1947 what caught democrats and republicans alike those were democrats but what they were most concerned about is whether or not these individuals loyalty was elsewhere they were american citizens but they were concerned and then the only one to express regrets so that when he heard his fellow communist say in a war between the united states and the anviet union, they would fight for the soviet union. and this wasn't just another political party their loyalties were truly elsewhere.

so that issue to be blacklisted as a whole other issue. i don't support that. but i think calling them to testify where your loyalties, what are you doing , i think that was a legitimate question for congress who was committed to upholding the constitution upholding the security of the united states because they pledged to loyalty to another country. look at the documents this was to make the us essay a soviet american republic. >>host: you spend a lot of time in your book duped on the hollywood ten here is a quote of the hollywood liberals were huge for the communist. >> absolutely. october 1947 a group of liberal progressives actors and actresses formed a group for the committee for the

first amendment that very title was influenced by the hollywood ten members who said to their liberal friends humphrey bogart, lauren mccall, judy garland, gene kelly, all of these genuine true progressives they were not communist. they said these fascist nazis they are calling us to testify. we are not communist we are progressives we know all about the first amendment but then they gotes there the bill of rights with bogart and mccall and danny k all these individuals got on the train across the country this is not

fair. we are not communist.no get all the way there than they are called to testify. and these idiots and their lawyers with stacks of documentation and checks written to the daily worker , the five digit numbers numbers and they present all of this. and watson and the others responded screaming at them nazis. fascist. they flipped out when bogart and mccall and the other saw this they said we have been lied to. have been suckered and duped in bogart that i quote in the book said i cannot say this on the air, uf word you sold me

out. you embarrassed me. lauren mccall said we were suckered and lied to. they made foolsy out of us. the hollywood ten members lied to their friends. john howard lawson was the commissar the most aggressive militant activists communist among the hollywood ten and not a very nice guy. and mister cole was another and to the end of his life really dug in and called humphrey bogart a hypocrite. i have an appendix in the book duped that a deal just with humphrey bogart brick i found in the soviet archives communist party usa bogart who

attended the workers school in new yor york, 1931 or 34, i go through could this have been humphrey bogart? i could t never prove it entirely but it might have been and if it was bogart that he could have been an example of many people on the left at that point were procommunist and my heroes and duped are those on the left that became anti-communist liberals like arthur's lesson juror junior was great to point this out out to theo point fellow liberals, listen pro- communism is bad. you haveba to realize that these communists have a loyalty to the ussr is not just another political party.

but lawson was militant and aggressive in an apologetic i don't know where he was when he went to the grave, but his role this is a completely illegitimate inquiry by the house committee on american activities coming out guns blazing which is ironic because the nazis and fascists did what they did because in 1939 joseph stalin in the soviet union signed a pact with hitler to launch world war ii which many american jews were communist and they said how dare stalin do this? i'm leaving the party i will remain a communist. i will follow trotsky but i will never be a member of cp usa because stalin helped hitler launch what he did andnd became an ally and it was

barack obama's friend and then he joined that afterwards for go afterwards. that is bad. >>host: our guest and out of the skull calling in from new york city. >>caller: hello. so recently with all of this discussion with the soviet union i have noticed there seems to be a lack of any tribute since many people say his publication was the principal cause of the fall of the soviet union and i wonder

why in relation to this subject matter i hear his name and i would also like to ask mister paul kengor if the writings of the great british journalist was aware of the evils of the soviet union from the 1930s on and i will hang up to get thek answer. >> great question. he is one of my favorites for go i quote him all through and he has some of the best quotes and there is another originally a man on the left and also ant atheist and went into a museum that was atheism that was a church that was converted he found that so disrespectful of religion that

it moved him away from atheism he was so horrified by what heho saw. walter durand who was the new york times reporter that won a pulitzer prize for his writing in the thirties misreported badly what happened in the ukraine in the latest research is that it appears that an eyewitness testimony from people he told was completely aware of the fact there was starvation in the ukraine. 10million people starve to death and he was aware he misreported this in the new yorkea times they call him the greatest liar he met in 50 years in journalism. a fascinating individual but you are right. it deserves much more acknowledgment than he gets

he's not taught today in our colleges or schools. i think everything that i just said over the last half hour are things you won't hear at the typical college which is why i think we see a surge of interest today is in socialism. >> aoc was born october 1989 probably nursing at her mother's breast so the modern generation has no living memory of any of this stuff. >> he really is not remembered maybe the name is hard to spell or pronounce but for whatever reason. >>host: how did the manuscript get out? >> he was released it was published quick. >> right.. i don't know exactly how it got out.

but pretty significant volume. i have had my students read the archipelago when i lecture i quote that but they read a day in the life and that is a much smaller book very good andwe powerful. and had such an influence on ronald reagan to decide in 1976 to challenge gerald ford for thee presidential nomination for president. reagan was so appalled that gerald ford that when they came to america in 1975 spoke to the afl-cio which was great on this stuff then. very anti-communist american

labor union and ford and kissinger would meet and ford even would refer to than a g damned horses ass and used the full language and accused him by coming to the united states which was so appalling and outrageous that ronald reagan who was the final straw convincing him to challenge gerald ford in almost convinced the others of national review william buckley junior to endorse carter over ford in 76. probably one of the worst things that gerald ford did. >>host: toledo ohio. >>caller: hello. with the work in regard to

george w. bush if george w. bush had a forensic analysis on the level of 9/11 and the influence of $240 billion of securities by george h.w. bush in 1991 becoming due 2001 septembe september 12th. >>host: are you considered yourself a 9/11 truth or quick. >> and in two people being incinerated but let him answer

my question and putting our points of view. >> i must say i did not look into any of those issues. i do focus at great length on september 11th it is quite interesting with georgee w. bush at that point as everyone knows is at a school in florida when he got the news and it is very telling because this was the man who at that point was dedicated to a presidency that would be domestically focused with a big focus on education. in fact a big focus of george w. bush at that time is what he called compassionate conservativism to be the education president and you focus one a faith perspective

and faith initiative he wanted nothing to do with foreign-policy. and then in a great speech the hiatus the years of repose between the shipwreck of communism and the bay of fire the ten years from the fall of the soviet union in 1991 and 2001 september 11. a time where you don't even know where the world is going and how ironic george w. bush will be the domestic president focus on education where the whole structure is the 21st century foreign-policy of america post- 9/11 world because at that point this is

not on his radar he has no idea nobody was more surprised heby 9/11 then george w. bush. >>host: pennsylvania hello. >>caller: hello. paul, as a history professor and historian you could choose to write about anything but you seem to have a passion for writing about communism so what was the impetus for this? what lead you down that particular path quick. >> that's a great question. i could speak for the remainder of the show on this but i was an undergraduate at the university of pittsburgh in the late eighties and premed. liberals could have spared me if all of this. i worked for the doctor the

pioneer of oregon transplantation in american documentary was done on him i was premed. 1987 through 1990 graduated 1990 i transferred from a couple ofs other schools to get there i was a horrible student in high school and anoutrageously bad kid but i edded up premed that was my goal and i was fascinated of historic events taking place all around me. i knew enough of theal campus atmosphere to know ronald reagan called the soviet union andre evil empire, people on campus call themselves liberals i was completely apolitical i did not know what a democrat or republican was they said reagan was an idiot and then the evil empire so that thisco wasn't going to

happen communism would be around the soviet union even people like nixon were saying that at thehe time now suddenly it all fell apart and collapsed in the berlin wall went down 1989. i became so intrigued i started to write columns in letters to the editor to my student newspaper it was a daily newspaper daily on weekdays and it being the editorial page editor and wrote a couple columns a week and while i am majoring in premed bio chemistry biophysics and microbiology working w 20 or 30 hours a week with the transplant team almost full-time in the summer and i graduate i worked full-time for a full year.

but really focused and fascinated by the collapse of communism mikhail gorbachev, john paul ii, ronald reagan. i was super focused so it began a really difficult. to figure out what should i do? should i apply to medical school or to graduate school of political science or international relations and foreign-policy? maybein that's my calling. i applied to 15 graduate schools and was rejected by 14 because my gre was not high enough neither was my grade point average but i had three.nine in my poly sigh genetics is harder than poly sigh.

[laughter] so those courses would drag down the gpa tried to explain that but they did not care i was accepted god bless them from the school of international service at american university so i guess they were not too stupid i got a three.nine there and there at american i started to focus on the question of the cold war and the collapse of communism and how all this happened. my first book would have been the crusader that that was detoured because in the course of exploring his thinking of his worldview on these issues i ran into a huge amount of information i did not expect to see and friends said that the book you need to write so

that's a little bit of my story. so at american university i was there from 91 through 93. i noticed crowe city college it was conservative i had become a conservative at that point which is another long story but i knew what they iswere doing and i thought i would love to teach their that's a place i would love to teach and living here in washington about to go home to western pennsylvania i was born in pittsburgh so i wanted to get back to that area and my wife and i got married in dc of ma may 1993 actually at the college chapel on campus.

she was a copy editor at the pit news and i loved working dc dc. the greatest place to work but i didn't like the lifestyle for quite did not want to raise kids here so we said let's apply back to the alma mater i will apply to the phd program with she applied to the masters program we both god accepted and said let's go. so we went there i got my phd from university of pittsburgh 97 went to the program quick much quicker than my undergrad that took six years because i transferred changed majors worked. i taught at robert morris college while i was in

graduate school but there was an opening and they hired me. >> is it affiliated quick. >> some think it has an affiliation with presbyterian church usa but it does not you could stand by the rainbow bridge on campus and hit three presbyterianrc church on - - churches. but the faculty is pretty mixed mostly protestant maybe 90 percent i'm actually roman catholic. the student body i would say we probably get more students now a nondenominational

independent evangelical church for quite i don't know that for a fact but i think it is right. the faculty some are anglican summer presbyterian summer presbyterian calvinist a few of us are catholic so the faculty has no specific denomination. >>host: famous supreme court case. >> 1984 we went all the way to the supreme court. we lost. it had to do with title ix and government funding is a long and complicated story but we eventually decided we have never discriminated against women that was complete nonsense and ase smear. we were admitting women in larger numbers than almost any college certainly in western

pennsylvania. but we didn't want to abide by the massive stack of government regulations which we felt intruded on our freedom to operate freely as a college and university so we got to the point where wee decided we would simply have to not take any government money federal or state at any level and the students that come to grow city come through privatized student loan program and that's how we have managed to survive we are listed one of the best buys for education and the tuition is $26000 a year so we have done an incredible job to keep the cost down without taking e government money. everybody thinks hillsdale it was there court case but it wasn't. it was ours.

we were first now there are colleges that don't take government money but there is not more than a handful. we werecawe first. >>host: we are talking to professor paul kengor in depth. battleground washington you are on the air. >>caller: good morning. i saw a movie called the killing fields when i was a preteen so i bought into the cold war hook line and sinker actually serving as an infantry man in the u.s. k army when we invaded panama opera glide and take part of the invasion but i was absolutely horrified at the death of hundreds of people that i considered to be a meaningless invasion. the pope has recently said capitalism is a pile of garbage.

actually received first communion and was confirmed very recently based on the pope's comments and the history of liberation theology and michael moore's film in the murder jesuit priest the archbishop has been murdered inso do you consider yourself to be an apologist for wall street? ayn rand sounds like a closer idol than anything in the bible or the catholic church the author of the satanic bible bases his work on ayn rand's work so you and an apologist for capitalism in the aristocracy ruling our country now quick. >> he doesn't know me very well. [laughter] i don't support ayn rand

actually. i am not a libertarian i'm a traditional conservative i am first a christian, roman catholic and my faith informs my view on politics. i guess republican next although i don'tth consider ifparty affiliation very important if you came forward with a good conservative democratub i would vote for the democrat i don't know you're getting ayn rand. >>host: liberation theology what is that. >> it was a form of latin american base theology that the jesuits really pushed it in the seventies and eighties there was a book wrote in the eighties that lay this out in great detail and pope francis

who was a jesuit has said marxism is wrong and i use that quote a lot and presentations. he completely rejects that likewise he rejects you a call laissez-faire capitalism so there is a more integrated view. if you read any and read the writings of pius ten or 11 or 12 that was published 1937 but you see the a catholic church has a very balanced view on the dangers of excessive

free-market capitalism as well. but i don't support ayn rand at all. >>host: the divine plan is your newest book you can explain this after. >> ronald reagan 1981 was shot pope john paul ii was shot six weeks later. god did have a purpose for the pope and reagan they were preserved for a higher purpose. >> i don't thank you deomrstand either one without understanding that. >> coming together june 71982 to do serious examination about what god had in store for them now. reagan and pope john paul second shared optimism and peace and justice in the

expansion of freedom. >> he gave the alternative worldview working in the realm of the human spirit like hope and love and family and friendship and much more. >> he could be the linchpin to take down the higher soviet communist block and that policy of the cold war. to pope is not about policy that's ridiculous the attempt to win the cold war. >> there were hundreds of thousands of not millions of people and now everybody had the communist leadership around the world and they are deathly afraid i see one of

the great stories of the end of the 20th century. >>host: what were we watching quick. >> and amazing film documentary and the way that it came about is he read my book which came out in 2017 and the movie rights to that book werey purchased by a guy named scott sanders. a father and son team so they have the movie rights to the book and they were going to do a film documentary based on the book and i said you can't

you're free to do whatever you want but you could do a documentary go for it. so he decided to do is entirely own thing so it will be an actual film with a script with actors and actresses classic hollywood style. p so rob put together a group of 14 different people to interview i am one of the 14 like h w brand brinkley, top scholars bishop robert baron mark sullivan jim rosebush the only person that was there with ronald reagan when he is watching footage in his living

room of john paul second we got back i on film.14 altogether about 14 different people it will be released this fall in the theaters for the 30th anniversary of the fall of communism the divine plan movie.com. in the midst of this, rob had 14 transfers of all these different folks in 20 pages each somewhere 30 pages per i think craig shirley was 25 or 30. he knows so much about ronald reagan. at these bishop robert baron is really good on theology beyond the facts with that deeper idea of aquinas and free will to quote from the scroll and we realize it

is a gold mine in the film documentary get an hour-long interview but you can only use two minutes so we said would you be interested in a book to go with the film that makes use of all of the great material? in the world's best editor who is a fabulous editor said yes. we would like to do this. so we put together aa book called the divine plan that was released inn june so we release that and had the opening presentation at the heritage foundation june 10th. the book is out now called the divine plan and the film will be out in november. you can read about both at the divine plan movie.com. >>host: in your book coming

out in 2014 the 11 principles of a reagan conservative, you write conservativism means different things to different people. >> it sure does. it's a mess. if you asked ten different conservatives today for a definition you will get ten different answers and that is especially true in the trunk arrow where on - - president trump era if you asked ten different progressives were a definition you'll get ten different answers. one of the t reasons is it began as a conference paper for one of the conferences c run by the institute for faith and freedom it was then called the center for vision and values but it was tasked to me to do a paper what is reagan conservativism is that i want to write about reagan i do that all the time so i laid

out seven principles and my colleagues said turn this into a short book you always write big long thick books but just write a short book we really need to know reagan really exemplified so we settled on 11 principles and the young america foundation ordered 10000 copies of the book to do a special edition of it they do a great job they give it to students at conferences because they understand is to understand what that genuinely means in the era of republicans and self-described conservatives in the trump era they fully understand or they don't or it's very murky so v this can be veryt: helpful. >>host: you have president reagan's longhand speeches in

the back but you also quote tim in 1977 the principles of conservativism are sound based on what men and women have discovered not just your one generation but all combined experience when we say we know something about political affairs that we know can be stated as principles with those that we hold dear to be ultimately beneficial for individuals andd communities and for nation. >> i use that and people need to understand that it's about those time-tested values and those absolutes with that

unchangeable and where truth can change on those hot button social issues because it will calm the waters and a conservative would believe because they believe a certain absolutes moral absolutes chert church teachings over 2000 years of history to be very reluctant to suddenly changet, that whereas the progressive who believes the definitions could be changed and would be willing to

redefine marriage and why we understand each other to accuse the other side of hate or nastiness we would not expect them we disagree that doesn't mean they are fascist or nazi but that is what they believe on the other hand conservatives that understandway that they evolve and change so they will say that means you believe in preserving and conserving those ideas but what about slavery? that was once legalize. and to say that time-tested values over time slavery was

always wrong because it inherent dignity there are all cnds of things from the past you want to change. >>host: allen in pittsburgh. >>caller: professor i have a question that has been bugging me the former director from what i understand he admitted when he was in college and to be controlled by the soviet union why did this not raise a red flag and how he became deck director even fox does not talk about it and it just reminds me of the my six and

all the communist. i don't understand but i will listen for yourr comment. >> that's a great question. he did in fact and then i wrote about it in with the communist party ticket angela davis was t awarded a prize and those who built the berlin wall. so the headd of communist party through the death that is

better than any general secretary and also very corrupt and those annual subsidies and to subsidize s communist party usa. and through the 19 sixties and seventies. and they voted for that and in the past a number of red flags and a security clearance instead become the cia director. hopefully it was raised during thatld time would say listen i

am certainly not a communist for quite own support that. generally on the left i am a progressive. >> and those that prospered under capitalism more than any other ethnic group of those billionaires why do 80 percent of jews support hard left politics and the financial support was the dominant support of the leftist so why is that it would be very self-destructive thou shall

not steal to prove that christianity is closer to capitalism then communism because private property is the very basis i thank you do great work thank you so much. >> people object to the term capitalism because it applies that to support free markets and private property and certainly speaking of jews of the judaic teaching it is thou shall not steal it assumes the right to own property and the communist manifesto actually says the theory could be w,summed up the abolition of private property by then and there they got their answer

policy wrong so to deny people private property you have to see force and guns and the gulags because it goes against biblical and natural law but that's what they got but is a far as american jews come i have not looked into this but other people have that two thirds vote democrat? i did handle some of that data but i think one third vote republican three forcere go democrat it is something like that. the one thing that i think is the dividing line that i have seen that orthodox jews are more conservative than

nonreligious jews who tend to be more liberal. so if i seeid where did you stand the orthodox practicing religious jews would be more conservative. >>host: e-mail how would you rate fdr with his dealings with stalin was he duped why did he overlook the evil of the regime to defeat them? but i totally duped perl. terrible his record is really reallyly bad and i spend a lot of time onna that in the revised edition in 2018 and the paperback edition there is a new preface to it i put a bunch more material on fdr i find more and more he was

badly misled and naïve about the communist threat and there are so many examples of him telling people the latestbo example in the book from the cardinal spellman, other advisors he would just say again and again it is the fascist not that - - that are the threat not the communist. illinois it on - - eleanor and i have communist that her friends. i can handle that pickle i have them covered. they are not involved it is fascism they said mister president you do not understand the communist threat you don't realize what a bad international threat outhis is he called uncle joe

and many of his advisers they even said he's very naïve about this and that this february 1945 this is where he was badly misled where intentionally or not half of europe was handed over to mosco moscow. he died april 1945 there are documentedup cases letters that he wrote he said we cannot trust stalin we cannot do business withn, stalin he has alreadyal broken every promise he has made so liberals who want to defend fdr don't do that even he would say he was

wrongas. >> that you spend a bit of time on harry hopkins? >> he was the closest advisor actually so close he lived in the white house where a time so i go over the issue of whether harry hopkins is agent 19 and i've got friends who disagree on that a dedicated dupes to her roman steen and verb died around 2013 and my good friend was a brilliant cold war historian and completely disagreed on harry hopkins and people on both sides said no no no he was dupedd and badly misled and naïve progressive maybe even

procommunist and herb who reprimanded me a little bit said you should've said he was agent 19 i'm telling you he is agent 19. i said i don't know other scholars he said i'm telling you he is agent 19 so the way i handled it is that i s.presentable sides i don't know the exact answer but he also was very naïve about stalin. >> you are on book tv. >> i have a question. do you think there is a moral inconsistency or hypocrisy for our farm foreign-policy and if you do how do you see that running through foreign-policy

today? and also to make a comment you made reference to turned over half the europe to the russians. >> can you give an example. >> look at the middle east there is a moralre inconsistency we are no longer consider the honest broker if you look at our treatment was saudi arabia many issues on foreign-policy that we curry favor with certain dictators consistent with their own best interest and we are very critical and i understand i propose that

because it does seem your guest is very comfortable in a moral context. >> i knew as soon as i said that i would regret the way that i say that. [laughter] the problemon with live television and a blabbermouth like me w so do we hand over half of europe at yalta? but we agreed to do was a promise made by the soviet union to allow free and unfettered elections now those countries were not permitted to have free and unfettered elections :-colon didn't even have those until 1989 and by dthe way they only open up 100 seats they didn't even open up

everything and the communist lost 100 out of 100 that's why hey don't hold free elections in cuba. because they lose when they do. but fdr was very naïve. drr said to his first ambassador to the soviet union under walter duranty and others to recognizeni what russia woodrow wilson would not do that. actually that angered a lot of conservatives. he was evil and progressive. he drew the line and said they were barbarian terrorist he would not recognize bolshevik

russia but churchill told boy george he would recognize sodomy first. but. fdr did. and later he would tell william christian who worked for the state department under wilson it at that point was procommunist resigned by the state department so angry at russia for not supporting the bolshevik russia it becomes the first ambassador to the soviet union, got there and was so enamored with stalin he literally kissed him on the cheek. wind and it dined for after being there a few years he became one of the strongest best anti-communist in america and he begged hamburger you have got to understandwr i was wrong. these guys are really really bad.

fdr said i believe if i give stalin everything he asked for and asked nothing in retur return, then he will work with me to build a world of democracy and peace. thatat is what fdr said. if i give him everything he asked for that he will work with me. chip bolin and said no. in no no. fdr was very naïve about stalin now what could he have done to stop eastern europe? that's a better question.

and the idea that penn goes all the way to moscowur but in order to keep the soviets we made a mistake of withdrawing too early to allow the soviets to fill the vacuum and stay there he was great at defeating the nazis but terrible with the communist and that is due to bad advice t7 book tv c-span two monthly in depth with one author on 1312 thank you for calling you are on the air. >> thank you for taking my call. i enjoy listening to professor. you may have covered what i'm going to speak about in the

air force in the early fifties i did my work near the library and as you said about yourself , you didn't do well in high school but i made it a point to go to the library a couple times a week and read biographies and one of those that stood out was god and man at yale was by bill buckley and i thoroughly enjoyed the book and became a lifelong fan and you know better than i do what a great human being and as a lifelong service subscriber to his magazine he

had a columnist in those early days and if not mistaken they dabbled with it and it seems in those early issues that had these great anti-communist writers coming from communist ecountries and i am still a subscriber to the national review. >> what do you do in west haven connecticut?ct i am a retired teacher incidentally my first year ofoh teaching i taught john chamberlain stepson so this is a comical little story.

i taught freshman english and american history when we got to the age of industrialism i use the phrase lab or barons and soon after that his stepson brought me in a book about the great and dusty list of the rockefellers and vanderbilts and he may have written the book, i'm not sure but i got his point. t7 so before we let you answer a lifelong subscriber to national review the editor now has a new bookk coming out and it is called nationalism so put that on your radar. >> great book called the myth

of the robber barons. actually he was very important to me also. 1989. i was never forget this the way i started writing the way my writing career happened i wrote a letter to the editor at the stern one - - student newspaper these people on campus engaged in a discussion with the homeless problem of aronald reagan i tried to understand how this was ronald reagan's fault but i investigated it i looked at the pros and cons and even looked at mont - - called the local homeless shelter and notes she said that i know what they are teaching you but this is ronald reagan's fault

they are mentally ill. the liberals i knew made fun of the homeless people i would try to talk to them. they published it as a column and then i got attacked and was called racist and all the different names. it was bizarre then i responded by writing a a column with another week or two away on my genetics course i wrote a piece in support and for that i am called a not see. a friend picks me up on a friday afternoon how was his newspaper column you are doing? i'm gettingds called all kinds of names i got called a nazi. he said a nazi?is are you writing about hitler?

i wrote about the contras writing about a nazi and a fascist and a racist. he said why i said i don't know because these people on campus are all liberal and they call you the most vicious names when you disagree with them it is unbelievable. every name in the book so that opposite effect kept meed writing but i said what is a conservative x i could tell they would read the new york times and he said buckley's magazine. what does that mean? national review. where do i get line crack so when we get o home so we went to the bookstore and i read it

cover to cover and did not disagree with anything i thought this was amazing stuff so i went into this with a clean slate and i started to subscribe to american spectator and national review and i love the new republic also the atlantic i kept that and then i was so broke i only kept the american spectator to keep my sanity because it was so amusing that national review was very significant the only one on - - the earlier collar who accused me to be in ayn rand supporter look up whittaker chambers review of ayn rand national review and lookie at how chambers savaged her buckley

was no friend of ayn rand either. so you need to learn about tnservativism and libertarianism all the different views you have to read more on this. >>host: writing for the american thinker magazine. >> that's been quite a while. >> the constantt claims of trunk being another reagan must be stopped if really in service of truth of what he really represented with the indisputable reality there is no meaningfulleet legitimate substance between donald trump and ronald reagan spirit that's a right last time i wrote for the american thinker and they savaged me for that i was shocked. i remember in the comment section wrote who is this guy? is he c a communist?

i have written about 100 times up to that point and i was just trying to show people it's almost psychological where supporters of trump want to say they did this to reagan also am a cow he turned out so they would have two or three things just like reagan other than the fact they were both attacked for their intelligence and esther ed - - underestimated you cannot have two people that are more different than ronald reagan or donald trump let growing the economy and even the fact that donald trump to govern as president including religious

libertyy and the supreme court picks turned out to be better than reagan's button so many ways especially with personality everyone who met reagan like tim liberals liked reagan as a person he had the kindest most decent person that i ever met he abbreviates the word damn in his diaries. [laughter] he is the complete opposite of trump on that so i was pleading with people that's cool. make your point but don't make them like reagan. >>host: texas you are on book tv. >>caller: thank you so much

professor paul kengor it is so refreshing to get a conservative such as yourself on national television for a change. i am a conservative as you can guess. my background for that is that i won the first world plate title and was at the white house during nixon's rate is 69 but. >> wake up probably figure out who you are. >>host: we will. my producer. >> i'm not calling to brag on myself but you asked the other person what he did i am a published author but i am curious professor, you must

have debated the liberal professors that make up the majority that say they don't but they do and to me to beat them why conservativism has been a winner through wemillennia. so what has been your experience and what is your personal record when you debate the liberal professors on those subjects and issues you talke about? we have been absently massacred over the last 30 or 40 years as conservatives with theit press and the activist who talk you down and call you names. i just want to state my

opinion without being assassinated character wise. my opinion is that donald trump one because of twitter. we are waiting for somebody to fight back and answer these people. i think he will win again and it is so refreshing but it's because of twitter. thank you. >>host: is this cliff ritchie? >> yes or. >> god bless the internet. [laughter] former professional tennis player national champion 1962 and 63 won the singles title at the french open in 64. >> very good. alt. i usually don't debate liberal professors i don't get invited to those things.

for the young america foundation it's called why mucommunism is bad but i get invitations from groups on different campuses with the kids who say my professor has a poster of karl marx in his office it's badly misunderstood can you please come to campus and give a talk why communism isad bad? and then i will go there bringing a stack of books with me like the communist manifest manifesto, harvard university press and the students are riveted.

that this is stuff they have not heard before. very rarely is a professor ever. last time i gave a talk , it turned out he was a polish émigre in the engineering department he was i was only republican that he knew out of the faculty of a hundred and 30 at the college. oneas w case where a female professor as i was going through the body bag count the number of people killed under soviet communist to be the chief reformer trying to count the skulls he says stalin

alone annihilated between 60 and 70 million people now now was between 62 and 65 million now latest research is over 70 million that's more than world war i and world war ii and in one case this female professor looked at me and shook her head disgusted looking at me like the ghost of joe mccarthy m because i was committing the sin of any communist. he said what you see with the academic left is anti-communist they find it

distasteful. they are anti- anti-communist more than procommunist. may be a lot of socialist or progressives definitely. and liberals but very few procommunist but for whatever reason the bad show is mccarthy.ti there was a survey a few years ago here in washington 30 percent of americans believe george w. bush killed more than joseph stalin. that is madness. how can you possibly believe that unless you spend four years in university hearing nothing bad about stalin and only bad about bush go this is what we don't know they don't ask me to debate they don't

even come to my presentations. they are very very very close minded. i find. >> bill ayres have sat at the table. >> interesting. >> somebody that you write about quite extensively. >> i write about them in dupes and in the communist they were founders of the weather underground when the students were democrats the sias id was not radical enough they formed weather underground i read prairie fire which was the manifesto among the people

that they dedicate that to there's a bunch of names which the kennedy family god bless them objected to errors getting tenure at the university of chicago he was a professor of education precisely because of that. >> he stilll is. images at university of illinois chicago. that they were as radical as could be so september 11, 2001 per piece on bill ayres is called no regrets where he talks about what a pleasant day it t was when we prompted the pentagon and new york city

in washington dc for go that article appeared in the new york times septembe september 112,001. as you're walking through manhattann and the world trade center is falling in the new yorkim times, there is this piece where he boast about the day that they attacked new york and washington that does not suggest he would support 9/11 but he would bag guilty as hell this is america is aou great country he was on the fbi most wanted list in 1970 afterid that after they were freed without jail time i got there degrees in education like so many people on the left went into academia and higher ed along with kathy

bowden and at columbia as well in fact publishing book on teaching social justice and higher education. >>host: florida good afternoon. >>caller: goodd afternoon. i was concerned about a statement alleging roosevelt was duped by stalin calling for free and fair elections in the occupied territories. sorry he was not smart enough to figure that out that he had to know at that time we did not have free and fair

elections and the parts of the south where i live so you claim he was duped by them does not ring true to m me. >> you are right about the south. that is very true. but he was still duped but to make a recommendation on this wilson mishandled and teaching at notre dame there is some good stuff at this there was a fatal mistrusty of stalin and definitely placed unnecessary faith that he should not have. >> to what do you describe the american politics of evidence among the democratic candidates for president

education education education. where you sending your kid to college? that is all the difference and the universities have given data on this for 30 years now despite the claims of diversity diversity diversity and then to be self identified as conservative or the electorate identifies since it is the complete opposite despite all the claims the universities are the ideological monolith those light grove city college where i teach or liberty

university, university, there are 20 or 30 colleges that are not completely taken over by the ideological left. those liberal professors did a better job. but it's not even close which is why products of the universities today are people like aco - - aoc called in the longest socialist organization in the united states. and the head of communist party ms - - usa is a

membership surge under trump which is about 5000 if it is 5000 they dwarf fat what they call democraticoc socialism actually communist pro had their meeting i was reading reports on that and the pictures was an old group. that was an indicator of who they were. >>host: have you ever debated the socialist or the communist? >> definitely. going back to my days as an undergrad many times i am happy to dialogue with you. nbut i have not had an

invitation to a major college to have a civil debate about the subjects which i am happy to do with charity and everybody being nic nice. i am always happy to dialogue. >>host: at in our meeting moments we will show you what professor paul kengor is currently reading. very quickly where professor is reading this may be our

final question do you subscribe to the belief the united states was founded on judeo-christian values and what evidence do we have? feeling that backs up what i was saying to have that biographyst i'm also reading the autobiography of mister cole so by pro marks and also freedom of'm the press i spent all my time reading them both sides. and faith and reason and how the founders and all the

founders all those of the denomination almost all of them were protestant and they have a general judeo-christian framework from which they operated. look at the unalienable rights of the declaration of independence that is from life liberty and the pursuit of arppiness are life liberty and poverty but clearly they base the system on a framework natural l law and a deeper general moral philosophy.

>> may be the book dupes but the quicker read would be the 11 principles ofof the reagan conservative that i would use to reach out to you liberals so just to understand better and as reagan said before meeting with gorbachev we understand better and that's the key to peace if you can understand what the other side believes better that you will not see them as haters and want to do knows them. professor paul kengor has been our guest. thank you

"collusion: how central bankers rigged the world." >> host: in your book "all the president's bankers" you describe the relationship between banks and governments and presidents as codependent. what do you mean? >> guest: what i mean change of the decades because "all the president's bankers," really from 1890s until the obama administration but what it means is that in times of war is a certain relationship where the government turned the bankers o finance it, in times of peace the bankers required of the presidents that they help them bank more widely and with fewer rules. so depending on whether there was a