tv After Words After Words Joe Ricketts The Harder You Work the Luckier... CSPAN December 22, 2019 12:00pm-1:01pm EST
your integrity but you. >> to watch the rest of this talk, visit our website booktv.org. search for nikki haley or the title of her book, with all due respect. using the box at the top of the page. next dump tvs "afterwards", joe offices becoming an entrepreneur. is interviewed by former wall street investor banker and author, william cohen. "afterwards" is a weekly interview program with guesthouse interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. all "afterwards" programs are also available as podcasts. >> thank you for being with us here today. it's his heckuva book. it is well told. why did you decide to write this
now? was there something more he wanted to say? >> let me say thanks for this interview. now it was written to appeal to entrepreneurs. most young entrepreneurs know how hard it can be and how rewarding it can be, it offers encouragement to people to say if i want to start my own business, i should do it. the other thing i want to do do it before i got too old, remember everything. looking at this change for the change how they dictated it, to get rid of fixed commissions.
i wanted to tell the story from the inside. so people would see human aspect to it. the title, the harder you work, the luckier you get, is that tongue-in-cheek or do you really believe that? >> i really, really did believe it because it happened to me so many times. the first one who put that phrase together, as i was talking to the people at simon & schuster, there's a problem, work so hard about the hardy your work, the luckier you get just came out and it sounded like it should be a good title. >> there was an amazing amount of hard work you went through and somebody who's written a lot about the financial industry who worked on wall street for close
to 20 years, myself, this story you tell about building american trade and how hard it was, was truly gripping. i don't think, i've written books about the history, i never got the impression in writing those histories that, of course i didn't live through it but it was tough as you experienced in building ameritrade. how did you do it? >> one of the things that made it tough, we started with almost nothing. back in the 70s, we sent out a financial statement every six months to our customers. one of our customers called me and said i thought i had to tell you you left three zeros off
your net worth. i was like no, those are the real figures you are seeing. the capital that we left in the business from our profits. we also had to be careful about running a business so we are within the regulations of calculating net capital and stake within those regulations. it's a constant struggle of balancing our income. making sure we had income and balancing it in three areas. how much money can i put in advertising and make sure the increase in the business is not going to cheat on the capital and how much can i hire new employees and new equipment? >> that is a difficult balance for many, many years. that's what really allowed us to
grow as well as we did. even after being in business almost 20 years, when i saw the opportunities for the internet and the opportunity for advertising, i say we don't have enough cash or money. so that was the time when i regrettably said if we are warned to stay in this industry and be one of the winners, we will have to have more capital. >> so obviously fed us all moment of in any company's lifespan. the big bang when the commissions are direct and what that meant to your business. my own writing and research and experience, really one of the most important moments in the
history of wall street was when they started going public and they went from being private partnerships obviously made access capital a lot more easier. how do you feel, it sounds like going public but you had to do it for the capital access. something, how important do you think this idea of going public changing the culture. >> for me, it was a very difficult decision. had always wanted to leave the business for my family to operate after i could retire. i knew if we went public, is going to be difficult to maintain. i also knew needed access to a
capital for us to take advantage of the opportunities ahead of us. that turned out to be right. i kind of figured we need $100 million for advertising. both of those figures turned out to be low. so we went public just at the right time to get the right amount of capital to get us into the upper on the people who were going to be able to stay in business. at one time, we had over 400. most of the people work weaned out before the late 1990s. very similar story to the automobile industry or any industry. i was aware of that. i knew if we want to do stay small, we were not going to be able to survive. i would not have anything to leave to my children but the time we went public, i got all the blessings and was able to
compete, i knew we were not going to have the same intimate atmosphere we had in the past. people really felt close, as i described in the book about working at ameritrade, it was really kind of a very fun environment. even though it was very stressful and people had to work hard. everybody seemed to enjoy it. you go public, you kind of become a different company. you lose that personal touch that you feel a private company. i have a different attitude toward bankers. i don't think they should have ever gone public. i think they have better control and management of what they were doing as investment bankers when they stayed private.
dealing with the public and retail buying and selling, it is really two different businesses and need to be followed separately. i always thought they should have kept it private. on the public side, it was okay. we did well going public. >> i certainly agree with you on pallets about the idea that bankers gave private. however, we are getting into so many other businesses so morgan's family had thought. there are so many different businesses and capital requirements were not that much difference.
did you feel the underwriters that took you public did a good job with that? does not leave something to be desired? >> it was something to be desired. i was amazed. we'd been in business for 20 years. we couldn't get anybody's interest, we were going to have a small offering. until we got to boston. then they didn't understand our business and they were not enthusiastic about taking us public. there wasn't any special enthusiasm for our stock and after we had been public for a little while and demonstrated to the market or we could have in stock prices went up, they said why didn't you tell us? i said i tried to. you wouldn't buy into it. it was amazing, for 20 years we have been growing at a phenomenal rate nobody in the
industry thought we were anything other than a start up business. i was all a surprise and shock to me. >> is out because you are in oklahoma and not new york or san francisco? >> i think even if we were in one of the money centers, we still would have been thought of that. >> we are close, we are neighbors. if we were located in one of the honey centers, i think we probably would have been looked at the same way because the security history didn't want to think we were competitors and didn't want to think we were doing as well as we were. i think they subconsciously ignored us. >> omaha, it's not like they weren't aware.
>> that is true but what warren buffett does is so much different than what we do, we were both in the industry but completely different. i don't know if the warren buffett phenomenon would wear off on us. >> have you met warren buffett? >> we live in the same neighborhood and i've had a couple of meetings with him. maybe i will see him once or year or so and we have a fundraiser or something of that sort. >> he's an completely different world than i am. >> you didn't speak to your counsel or anything. >> that's correct. >> can we go back, your childhood is so interesting.
you say how you had a very different outlook, even then your family, your parents. you had different interests. it was not hard for you growing up to be somebody who is not interested in the housebuilding business, your problem within? the typical things kids growing up were interested in? >> it was not hard. i had an ideal growing up. the 40s and 50s and 60s, it was a wonderful place for young people to grow up. my best friends, we still get together, we say really had it in the most wonderful way. we didn't realize it, we didn't know. with respect to my father, my father was in business with his
father. when my grandfather died, my father brought the estate. my father would have liked to me to be in business with him. he encouraged me to go to engineering school but i have no intention of going into that business. i tried, as a young person but you have to have talent with your hands. i don't have that talent with my hands. i couldn't conceive of the mechanics necessary, you have to understand where he should nail things and i just didn't have that. the second part was that i couldn't wait to get out of nebraska city even though it was a wonderful place to grow up. i was ready to go for new adventures. although my father would have enjoyed me coming into business, he knew i was never going to do that. he even counseled me when he
fired me saying you're just not going to make it as a good carpenter. you're good at working with your hands so even though you would normally it would be a special time, i was comfortable saying i'm happy that you're asking me to leave. i don't want to disappoint you and i'm pleased you're not so disappointed. some of the other aspects about playing sports, i never did feel shortcomings in myself for not playing sports. i tried to play sports but i w was, it just didn't work. if i tried to get the ball, it hit me in the face. as i indicated in the book, i felt like a grown-up. i was a little boy, i had a paper route. i would take my dollars into the bank and go to a teller and into my dollars and that grown-up product teller would take the
information and write it in. that made me feel grown-up. that was a feeling i got that nothing else would replace. working to make a few dollars was probably the most important thing in my life as a young man. they encouraged me to work and save, they never encouraged me. a lot of times you have a different attitude on what to do with your work and dollars. >> you talk about how growing up that great freedom but also responsibility. that feels like such an american concept to me. and admire will american
concept. >> i always did feel responsible to my family, my mother especially. i didn't want to disappoint her and do things that she considered to be something that would make her feel embarrassed. we always did understand from my mother that we had a certain place in the community. we needed to work to maintain that place. so although i had no idea of what was happening to me at the time, as i look back now, i can see i always knew i should be responsible but i always knew i had the freedom to go anywhere and do anything. >> told of yours, the story of the family ball, generations back, i seemed a seminal moment. >> the generation it was, a great lesson for me to learn, when my mother told me the story when i was a young man, my
grandfather was a farmer in nebraska and it's a small farming town. being a successful person in the community you were the roast that you cloud were straighter, the hogs you raised factor. the other thing is, the catholic church in the small town offered the first to the families who gave the most, the second view to the family and my grandfather's family always had the front pew. they always brought a new car every couple of years. my grandfather's mother married a banker. this was before regulations or anything of the sort. it was like owning a hardware store. you took your risk and you put interest rate on their that you thought would be something we
give you an adequate reward and risk you are taking. he then had access to capital my grandmother wanted to leave her children a farm. after the first world war, farming was a successful business. the market grew as the economies around the world grew in agricultural products that they produce. during 1920s, times were good. my grandfather had a farm, they had a mortgage and as soon as they had equity in the farm, they borrowed against the equity for the next kid. they had equity again, they borrowed against that. they built a pyramid of debt. it would have been wonderful but
of course it didn't. he went into depression. one of the things my grandfather did do was feed cattle. his dream was to leave cattle operation to him and his son. his dream was to have a big sign that said and sons. he brought this before they got very old. he had a disease, tuberculosis or something but it was a very prized role and went he brought it home, he have a party. it was like a fair and he invited all his neighbors and to sketch. there is a number of tables they put out in the yard and everybody brought some food so the tables were full of food and people would play games they could make up. one of the games my aunt told me
was the men would bet on how many eggs they could lay on the back of the bull before they started to roll off. my grandfather, this was the peak of his career because he was able to show off and think about the benefits he could have and make it hurt. to get bigger and better as far as what he would produce. his animal had this disease, he thought control. the state took control and it was before current science new how to handle it. it all had to be destroyed. when his herd was destroyed, he didn't have money to pay the loan and i was like pulling it
out of the universe. and everybody lost their farm. this was also before the days of any kind of social warfare. when he lost the farm, he moved to nebraska city to work in the packinghouse but he had a nervous breakdown. my memories of him are looking out the window. his sons were old enough to go to work and his daughters went to work. the whole family went to work to support the family. here's this man that had a very strong social position while he was a good farmer and how to move into a house in nebraska city. they rented the least expensive think they could find. didn't even have any floors. it had floors like a log cabin. it was kind of hard times for the family.
he never did recover. it was something that had a big influence and she told me this story many times. >> did you take a lesson from that story? >> i did. i always had to say to myself, be ready to fail. be ready to lose all your dreams. i've got a website, one of the entrepreneurs in that website that i interviewed, says entrepreneurs are different. we fail and then we get back on the horse. as an entrepreneur, you have to understand eight out of ten new businesses fail in your risk is quite high but if that happens, and you're really an entrepreneur, you get back up and try again.
>> another important moment is the whole story of the bus start in your father's business and the importance of innovation and technology. >> it is an important part of the story. after we were successful with technology, everybody thought i understood technology and of that understanding of technology is what allowed me to do successful. the reality was, i didn't understand technology. i just didn't understand what it could do. the image was where my mind went right after i got the idea. these people don't know i don't know about technology. so how did i take advantage of it? my mind went right back to that
afternoon when my dad first used that saw and he was pleased about what they could do. >> is is the idea of you don't know how to know how car engine works, you just have to know what a car can do for you? >> correct. same thing. >> it seemed again in the book, technology was always a hurdle that you are trying to get over. it would be obsolete by the time you implemented it and a lot of money was spent and a lot of people cycle through trying to figure out the technology and it was as simple as the innovation of having people be able to dial a phone number as opposed to
doing it automatically and it seemed like every time you thought you had the technology, a kind of let you down and you fall all over again. >> that is correct but it's amazing to me to think where we started. we started with the touchtone telephone, the latest technology in 1975. when we got our trade made, we reported it as a trade for the day and put it on a sheet that went into an alphabet system. everything was done, it didn't take us long to learn we could not continue to do everything i and expect business to grow.
of course we all wanted the business to grow and saw the opportunity. we had to have some sort of automation to help us out. as a company by the name of computer research and they gave us a teletype machine which was like a typewriter. our kirkwood type in the activities for the day. the trade was made, money checks going out and things of that sort. that machine then perforated a tape and we would then set our telephone in the holder and the tickertape was in the holder so it gives the beeps and the box to the computer in philadelphia. all transmission goes to philadelphia.
if there was static on the line, the information was incorrect so the company in philadelphia would receive the information you sent. process it and put out into chicago. in chicago, the person that ran those machines would put in a box and send it to omaha. all that was overnight. very seldom did it happen overnight. something always happened. a snow storm or something prevented it. it is usually a day after we were supposed to get in bed we would go through and pick up all the mistakes and corrected. it was much more efficient way to operate but there was also a lot of opportunity to have mistakes and in some ways, it was very inefficient because we were ready to do the business which was answer the telephone and write tickets.
it wasn't too long after we had that business. i'm very happy we had that. there's a good steppingstone but we realized we need our own system. i've never heard the word software so when people said you have to have a software and computer, while what is software? 1975, it's hard for people to realize it wasn't that long ago that these things came into being into the world was completely different at that time then is today. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> in the book, i talk about dave was the genius that put it together but if anybody thought we were going to build a system
from scratch, they would have said you are crazy. basically if i had that, i would have never taken that. acute risk that you could even do that, it was amazing. when i started to write this book and thinking about all the things, i was amazed. i forgot how much risk we took there. it was instrumental. without him, we would not have been able to do it. he did it out of a challenge to himself, he wanted to do the impossible in ways that demonstrated he could do things other people couldn't. >> did you ever imagine we'd be with the technology where we are now where we essentially go to an website and do your own training right there online and it works in people feel good
about it and it's confident? did you ever imagine that? >> when we started in 1975, to have that would not be in the imagination. nobody had that concept. he took the traits by telephone and gave them to a clerk and get a call back. years later, when we could report that execution back to the customers within six seconds, that was really remarkable. so everybody had to build the systems so it would flow through from customers keyboard to the exchange and make us have all the information about the customer know. there was something that was truly remarkable. absolutely wonderful but we didn't dream of that, we didn't have any concept of the in 1975.
>> so why get into this business? i think you said something about being a magazine cover who looked dashing and impressive and prosperous, did it for you? >> yes, that's part of it. the other part, i wasn't too happy with my job. i was not excited about where my career was going. since i had been a reporter, a kind of knew i wanted my own business but didn't have any capital or any way to get any capital. so that was the next best thing job in your own business. at the time that i went through this story of seeing the cover of the magazine, was a bull market and they were making a lot of money. thinking that i could have the opportunity to put in my pocket my own compensation relative to
a commission job and do it in a way that is related to the securities market, was the most attractive i could get. when i understood what happened, i had to go there. so i went to omaha to apply for jobs and i didn't have a college degree. all of the managers said you don't need to look at somebody with a bachelors degree. that's when my wife and i sat down to map out how much money we would need to take care of the family and how i could go back to school, then i went back to college to get my bachelors degree. so the idea that i would be one of these people who flourished by making a lot of money as a stockbroker was incredibly attractive. it did so happen that i registered at the top of the
market in the late 1960s. >> how do you go from being a broker to thinking you would start your own discount, low-cost brokerage? and make it work? >> i talked about him, by associate, my partner, my mentor. he's the one who really said somebody will break range. try to offer prices at a lower price because he was experienced with the grocery business and competition. so the brokerage community did not want to change. they didn't want to think it would change so they thought even though the government had instructed negotiated commissions are people wouldn't reduce their prices. bob is the one who said to me, somebody will.
i believe and understand it so why don't we, if we think we will have to compete for the commission we charge, why don't we be one of the people the customers want to do business with and not have to defend ourselves for the high commissions we would always have? that's how all that got started. we had no idea how to do it. we just had a lot of hope and thought that sounds great but as the story unfolded as a kind of tell in the book, there is a little here and a little there but we were so naïve or stupid enough that we just kept plowing along. it turned out to be when you think there's a market for somebody who just wants to make the trade, they just want to let
you know here's what i want to buy, here's what i want to sell and i don't need any research or service. to find out the market is bigger than you think, that was wonderful. the other thing thousand frontier was right after the second world war, the government had the g.i. bill, a lot of people came back from the conflict of the war to go to college on the g.i. bill, to become engineers, architects, doctors. they felt comfortable with education in making their own decisions and what companies they want to buy stock in. there was two things going on at the same time that meet our market broader than we ever thought it would be. it's another one of those things, the harder you work, the luckier you get. we didn't know that was there until we got started. >> that's an incredible story. >> the other thing was, i was
poor. several times in the book, my back was against the wall. i thought i might lose it all but i thought, i could go get a job but will i be happy? i took the risk, i failed, just how to recover some way. having your back against the wall really does help because you don't have any choice but to keep going. >> is also a certain quality about some of your relationships you form early on and you have to make tough decisions and people came into the business, they left the business, you make a lot of tough decisions. you try to make it a family business. your wife worked there, she seems like a saint. you wanted to have, hopefully,
you had your brother and you hope to have your children working there but it sounds like often you how to make tough decisions. part ways with some of these people and in some cases, never spoke to them again. what was that like for you? how do you feel about that? >> is terrible but it's one of those things you have to go through sometimes. i would like to talk about this for a second. right out of law school when you have first difficulties with the security connections. because he had a lot of confidence in himself and because he had a unique way of trying to solve this problem, he's seen those from going out of business. this is an attorney.
they have the ability to save our business and keep us running. a few years later, he changed the whole industry by thinking different about all the rules and regulations. so he went to ask them if we could form an association with bank and share commissions. the sec gave us no action. if you do it this way, we will take no action. that changed the whole industry. it only been in business for up to a couple of years and he changed the whole securities industry. a little later he said to me and my partners to allow me to say a partner, i was doing things relative to make judgments in
the kind of wanted to have me leave. so it was very important. very near and dear, about a close friend as you could possibly have. when he really helped us with our legal work in 1975 and 76, we had a bill for $75000. it was a huge amount of money. more money that i could comprehend. we can't afford to pay you, we don't have the money. i like to give you half of it in stock and the other half will pay you over a period of time. he had no choice to agree or he wouldn't get paid so he had that. now he knows our stock is increasing in value. every once in a while, he would have something, grabbed his
attention and he needs cash and sell his stock. whenever i brought his stock, i had to reuse our advertising. to me, it's like putting a hole in your heart. after he did that a couple of times, i said i can't do this anymore. i'm going to use all of your stock right now. i will send you a check. so we parted ways, we want really mad at each other but we lost that touch, thought friendship. we were always friends later on the those are really hard times. the hard things but my mentor, that was hard. i had to say to myself, don't let your emotions get in the way of good judgment. try to think purely, logically
and follow the ideas that come up a type of effort. but it's not easy. it's very difficult. both of these men i loved and i hated to go away from them with that relationship. >> you found that that sort of standard occurs in business in the history of professional businesses that there are people who come and go and they can be tough decisions having to be made along the way? have you shared this with other entrepreneurs like yourself and discovered they have similar experiences? >> yes. most of this time they have associations difficult for them as the business group because
two people would want to go to different directions. the friendship and camaraderie ship, camaraderie, it's maybe five or ten years later but i find it not to be something abnormal to us, maybe normal for new business being started with more than one person but it's something you have to handle successfully or you won't survive. >> you are clearly driven to succeed. i assume you succeeded beyond your wildest dreams. has it changed your life? could you imagine it happening this way? but eventually it did happen, i know you want to do leave the business to your grandchildren but that didn't happen. you accomplished many of your goals but not all of your goals
and your obviously a very wealthy man and beyond your wildest dreams. his is like the story of america in the 20th an early 21st century? how are you feeling about your experience? >> it certainly is true i accumulated more money than i ever dreamed or thought i ever what but at the same time, i was old enough when it happened that, i'm not going to change. my wife and i still have the same values we had when we didn't have money. it allows us to do things we wouldn't have been able to do. for example, my children wanted to buy the baseball teams, we wouldn't have been able to without that success. it made a wonderful business for my children to run the baseball
team. so -- >> that's quite a moment of thing. >> it is but my kids get it. they put the idea on me. i said why what i want to buy a ball team? i have no interest. basically they said well, we want you to have interest. we want for ourselves. my wife had talked to them about baseball. we got the television station. my kids are home in the afternoon and would watch it. my kids went to chicago, loving the chicago cubs. it was one of those things serendipitous. it's another one of those things where you say the luckier you get.
i had no interest but my kids sure did. they went after inna ernest way it they had a world championship. they've been very successful with the baseball team and the remodeling of the ballpark and the businesses around it. it's been a wonderful thing for us. we would not have been able to do thought if we hadn't had the fortune that came with being successful in that business. >> taking my gm to get yourself a championship. >> i think -- first of all, my wife and i have four children. they were the ones who had the cubs.
it was suggested by my son and my son had the most interest. the four kids, among themselves, put tom in charge. he was the one who is to make the important decisions. in chicago, went week one the world series, tom could have been elected to anything. he should be president of the u.s., shouldn't be married or anything. liberty as respect for what has happened and my kids still in chicago. >> i want to touch on little more personal, you had a brother died of aids and a daughter who was gay, you come from a catholic background. grew up in the midwest.
you are very forthright about in the book. you discuss it all. what has up experience been like for you and your children growing up the way you did? >> obviously i think you can imagine growing up in a town about 6000, you don't have much exposure to the idea or reality of a homosexual. it doesn't come into your well-being. i never had an idea that my brother was gay until he called me and told me he had aids as i described in the book. it is only a year younger than i was so i left him. it didn't make any difference to me whether he had aids or had been homosexual. we took care of him until he passed away.
my daughter was in her early 20s. she was a young woman when she came to my wife and i to tell us that she was gay. she said i didn't choose this, nobody would wish upon themselves that they would be gay. i was born this way. through my tears, i was able to tell her to never take second place, always hold your head high and be as good as you can be and whatever you want to be. both of those things with my brother and my daughter come out of love. the love is probably the strongest emotion in a person's life and certainly, the strongest connector to other people. family is the basic unit of society if your society will work, families have to work. my wife and i both came from
strong families, very different type but very strong. the family came first. those decisions were really automatic on my part. i know a lot of other families are not considered that way and it's really a shame as part of why i talked about it in this book. i could have left that out but i think it's important to let people know there's a good percentage of our population in our day and the fact that they are gay shouldn't have any influence on any other aspect of the business. so i wanted to tell the stories in the book. >> thank you for discussing that. i wanted to ask you about advertising. advertising is a big part of your business and you put a lot of money into it. you clearly took pride in the
benefits of driving customer volumes through your advertising. what you think about the advertising of tv ameritrade today? >> i'm still a large shareholder of ameritrade and i really enjoy the fact that i think they still have good management. i think it's been on too long. it's old. it's boring. but they must have a reason for considering it. but do i like it? i would have liked it two years ago but i don't like it now. >> it does seem long but it is and be good is. i don't know quite why i remember it but, you have an idea, seven or 8 billion, what
is the dynamic in the industry now? why is it such a high evaluation and ameritrade? even though it's well beyond anything you could ever imagine? >> a friend but at the time, we were competing all through the turn of the century. he is a competitor i had to worry about and i mentioned that company several times in my book but he was fortunate enough to have started in california. california, i think at that time had the ninth largest economy in the world. in nebraska, we had a million people. he had a market that is right out of his front door and i had
to go searching for people who would want to be interested in buying stocks and bonds. i think he started in 1975, i've never really heard of the company in san francisco. until about 1977. he also wrote a book, i think we were both published in the same month. if you read this book, you see although he had the opportunity of being closer to market that was larger than the market that i was in that he wanted to grow as fast as he could, the branches are expensive so i think he's done a wonderful job through the years of managing his business and allowed him to get to a larger market gap than ameritrade because of work we started and what we had to deal
with when we were a new company to grow. he had a bigger base to grow from because of the population into the kind of population he had. >> he also brought up bank. >> he did somewhere along the line. every entrepreneur will have to make mistakes. you are doing things that have never been done before. anybody can look and on any particular interest, they could say that's a bad thing and they are probably right. you have to take your hat off and give a lot of credit for drink some of the things that didn't work but by the same token, after say i deserve credit for being great even though i failed.
>> the market these days, obviously all-time highs from month after month, people would like to know your views of what you think this market is going to. >> i am 78 years old and i'm still working 40 to 60 hours a week. i did retire from ameritrade as ceo about 20 years ago. i figured i deserve to take use of the money i accumulated to do the things i want. after six months, i was no longer happy. i have to be in business, i have to be part of the creative process that makes communities work. i wanted that to work in a very happy. i have never worked in such a strong economy that exists today. it is quite wonderful for the country, a little awkward for me
because i'm not in the brokerage business. i try to buy into businesses, there's a lot of money floating around and a lot of composition which makes the prices ridiculous sometimes. the government has really given the country the attitude that things are good, the president reduced taxes and reducing regulations. i think those are burned things. i would like to get my soapbox and say yeah, there are still too many regulations. there are levels that really stop people from starting their own businesses. that's what makes our economy grow in our wealth so good. >> on the other hand, support regulation.
having a seatbelt in a car, baby. >> seatbelt would be going too far. i feel like i shouldn't have to be told what to do but the other argument is, if i get in a car wreck without a seatbelt and i end up on the charity list for having to get well, i was negligent in not wearing a seatbelt so my feelings are leave me alone, i will make my own mistakes. that's my emotions. realistically, you know there has to be some regulation. i like the free enterprise more than i like the word capitalism. capitalism is a great thing. but capitalism kind of gives the image that it is unbounded, it's
really raw and dog eat dog. which it should be but the enterprise give the same image but gives them the temperance that comes with regulation. so we do need regulation and over see her. of the securities industry, probably every industry to make sure the consumer and the people offering the products and services are offering them in a good way. we do need regulation. the question is always, how far do you go? my personal feelings is on the part of municipalities and states, we've gone too far. we tried to protect the public too much and we are stopping people from starting their own businesses and when people start their own businesses, we create new jobs necessary to make our economy get along well.
>> that is very optimistic. i want to think you for being part of what we have today and to tell everybody this amazing story of entrepreneurship, truly the american dream. very readable way, you and your cowriter. it's a great read and i recommend it. >> i really appreciate that. thank you. >> this program is available as a podcast on "afterwards" programs can be viewed on our website at booktv.org. your watching tv on c-span2 with top nonfiction books and authors. book tv, television for serious readers. this weekend, university of maryland baltimore president agreement shares his insights on
building and sustaining inclusive high achieving innovative university. ... [applause]. >> ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the national constitution center a round of applause for the thrill of uniting around are urgently important mande and mission which i would like you to recite say you can aspire our guests with the imp