the newest book by kate anderson team of five presidents club in the age of trump joining from her home in bethesda maryland, thanks again for being with us. >> guest: thanks for having me. >> host: want to talk about the book of course but in this

moment how president of trump is dealing with the pandemic. >> guest: it's not that different from the way we've seen him in the past three and a half years. he's making it a very partisan talking about the democratic mayor isn't doing enough, and how important the national guard is and i think that he is in a partisan issue where in the past we've seen presidents reach out and try to be compassionate and bring people together instead of divide them. so that's something we have seen both in the pandemic and the recent protests. >> host: how did that come about, what is the genesis of

its? >> guest: i've always been fascinated by what happens behind the scenes. when one new family moves in and another move south, as you know, this swearing-in ceremony that we all watch, that's really behind the scene there is controlled chaos at the white house. and in the last inauguration i was fascinated by v. obama is taking off in a helicopter right after president of trump was sworn in and flew over the white house to look down at the house that they had lived in for eight years and every former president and first lady due to start their lives -- semi-private citizens. so i wanted to dig into what happens when you suddenly go from being the most powerful person in the world to being on the sidelines.

>> host: that includes an interview that you conducted in which you recount in the book and here are some of the details. now a man who's been called a barber and blowhard by his predecessors was sitting behind looking at me intently. i was surprised that meeting would come together at all especially since he occasionally seemed unsure of what i was writing about. i guess you're writing about first ladies come at one point i'd written about the subject. no, i taught him. this is about the former president. he was subdued and thoughtful. a glass of diet coke on the ice was the only thing on his desk. the room so bright that it felt there were television lights shooting down from the ceiling which would have been appropriate for the first president to have been a reality tv star. there were also three flags and presidential ones on display. three times as many of each of the predecessors office. >> guest: i think that's the a lot to how he views the

presidency. he understands the importance of the job and is the most powerful person in the world. he doesn't respect his predecessors. i thought it couldn't just be the story of george h. w. bush and bill clinton. there were remarkable friendships between the presidents who wanted to get [inaudible] i had to look at how donald trump would'v would change the presidents club. i think that it united them together in lots of different ways. they are closer now than they would have been had donald trump not been elected. they have more in common than was president of trump. that's what i wanted to look into is where do they fit into the club and did i ask him that and he laughed.

he was very honest in the interview and said i don't think i'm going to fit in very well. he is under no illusions and i think that he sees that even after. >> host: we asked about that in an interview last summer. here's the exchange. >> host: george w. bush relied on his father and richard nixon. have you reached out to former presidents, and if so, who and why? >> not much. i mean, i speak with george bush, spoke a little bit to thee father but really not too much. it's hard when people are against you. i disagreed with the war in iraq, so it's hard to say that all of a sudden i can forget. i'm in a situation where they are in theon middle east.

we've defeated as you know the caliphate. and i did that because i wanted to do that. we did 100% of the caliphate. when i was at 99% people said you can't pull out. when i took over, it was a mess. i defeated 100% caliphate. that doesn't mean ie six doesn't go around bombing because they are stone cold crazy. but they have done a great job. but i disagree very strongly. millions of lives and it was not iraq and it was not saddam hussein. he did knock down the world trade center. we got stuck in this quicksand but they are extricating ourselves into getting out. i call it the endless war.

>> host: president of trump from july of last year. kate anderson broward, but did he tell you? >> guest: he was a little bit softer because he had just been invited to a funeral and said he appreciated that gesture. it's fascinating what he's referring to in your interview is his relationship with george w. bush, and according to my reporting, he used it as like the civil war we got through that we can get through a trump presidency.

they called to try to get him confirmed in that controversial hearing. they've spoken twice on the phone but that was a long time ago. and i know during the pandemic they want to be out service. why are they uniting and donald trump isn't part of this and so they feel like their hands are tied. >> host: there is one story in the book involving president jimmy carter. we know he would walk dow she we streets to meet with family and friends, or you talk about that in the book. on a quiet saturday evening in april of 2019 is the former president was about to serve himself at the buffet table at a friends house a call came to the elevator announcing president trump wanted to talk to him about china and trade. he sat on his plate and picked

up the phone. a trump spoke for much of the call but was asked about the process with north korea and to be flexible with the north korean leader carter got in a dig about the national security adviser john bolton, a staunch supporter of the war to which the president replied i call the shots according to a person in the room is left president carter unmoved and after they hung up he went back to the table and quietly filled his plate as though nothing had happened. >> guest: i don't know if you've had the opportunity that he had this incredible sunday service that he does and they live in a very modest style home i went to visit with my friend last june. we went down and it was an

incredible meeting because he's so very modest and different from trump but he used corker as an outsider. criticizing george w. bush and the war in iraq and the handling of hurricane katrina being very outspoken. he went to haiti, north korea, he was all over the world on behalf of the country. but in the process we are playing messages and then he brought a cnn crew with him before he briefed clinton about what happened in the trip. so he does things his own way and i think that's trump has a kinship that has changed recently when they questioned whether or not trump was a

legitimate president. but when i interviewed him he interviewed carter felt he really had an affinity for because he was a fellow outsider. >> host: one photographs that captured a lot of the former presidents after barack obama was elected president during the transition. so as you can see george w. bush, his father george h. w. bush, former presidents clinton and carter. kate joining from her home in bethesda. bob is up from illinois. good evening. >> caller: good evening, steve. love c-span. it is nice to talk to you. i've been voting straight democrat since 1972. southside of chicago and i got a photograph of my late wife with obama when he ran in a fund raiser at the 01 helton.

i'm a little discouraged by what i'm reading in the news. i hope this doesn't come back to the president. i agree there are some bad actors. i'm just hoping it doesn't come back to president obama but if it does is there any offer out there that will write a book about obama that will talk about him as unbiased. c-span is terrific. we all love c-span. but i'm afraid history will bend a little bit. thanks a lot. >> host: thanks for the call from illinois. >> guest: i think that people will look at the trump presidency fairly. i think there's certainly a degree of liberal bias, but i do

think that sometimes when you are just saying things for instance in my interview i asked if he would go to presidentia pt obama's presidential library which is something every president has done in history to celebrate the legacy of the president that came before him. he said no, and why would he even invited me. we know he's not going to invite obama to the presidential portrait unveiling. there is a tradition i don't think that it's biased marking that but the bigger question is does not matter, do these traditions matter. she wanted her son to finish school in new york. that is something no modern first lady had fun. but i think that it was an

interesting move because why should you not be able to make those decisions for your self and your family. so in some ways the instructor is different but it also raises the question of tradition. >> host: the caller mentioned the former traditions. the graduating class of the historically black colleges and universities didn't mention him but it's on his mind. let's watch. >> more than anything it is torn back the curtain on the idea that so many of the folks in charge know what they are doing. a lot of them are not even pretending to be in charge. if the world is going to get better, it's got to be up to you. with everything suddenly feeling like it's upry for grabs this is your time to seize the initiative. nobody can tell you any more than you should be waiting your turn. nobody can tell you it that this is how it's always been done.

this is the word generations of old to shape. >> host: when you heard that, but was your reaction? >> guest: i was surprised because president obama had been quiet on the sidelines and he had been criticized for that. i had been reporting in the book about how he felt somewhat like he's in a bind. he does come out and criticize president trump in and immediately provides a way to galvanize the voters because they want an enemy. we've heard him talk about this as a theory that he has not proven. i was surprised. i think it shows the pandemic has pushed president obama and

president bush into speaking. if you like this is just a bridge too far. it hasn't been handled well. they said it is ironic that the president feels more comfortable calling up autocrats than he does picking up the phone to talk to obama or brush. would it be helpful for us love them or not a lot of people disagree with the war in iraq. a lot of people have problems with clinton and bush and obama but they do have a certain moral authority and people would like to see that essentially now during the timeout and unprecedented pandemic in modern history and with what's going on around the country, the unrest

and protest. it would be very nice for us to see them together. >> dorothy is next from north carolina. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i would like to address a couple of things quickly, but that isn't a question i want to ask. i want to make a couple of statements. number one there is no obama date. the reason the fbi was investigating the campaign members is because not the trump campaign but trump met him in helsinki. the thing i want to share, trump

has been very divisive as far as far as dividing the country. you said trump defended most of the president. when history is written, we have video. the divisiveness and one more thing i want to say and then you can tell me if that is the reason. c-span had two people on their and he may not be a strategic thinker but we will have a cyber attack and he may still be in office and it will be handled terribly. two people were on c-span from the intelligence, the congress and it was a republican and a democrat and said not enough is

being done for the cyber attack. >> host: thanks for the call from north carolina. let me go back to the second point. and i'm reminded when former president bush released a video praising the frontline workers during the pandemic, president trump's response was where was he during the impeachment? >> guest: that was remarkable to me, and to that point it doesn't make a lot of sense because most would see the video and say it's wonderful. let's all come together. that worked for him in 2016 and we are going into an election so that is kind of a cynical thinking.

he did think that it was the worst decision in u.s. history. he stuck by these conditions. i think that the presidency if anything cos caused them to bece more of who he is. but i think that he feels like he's an outsider since he will have to embrace that and it's worked for him before. >> host: on the phone from birmingham alabama. >> caller: thanks for accepting my call. i have a fought about the five

presidents basically sending the torch over to the future generation. here's something that i think speaking with hundreds of people from 20 to 30 years bringing their payroll into the same system that the states have it's the same thing that we live under within our states yet they have their own systems. for incentivizing people's payrolls to create some type of productivity.

they would produce if their payrolls and insurance were back home. >> host: think of a call from alabama. for the call from alabama. kate anderson broward, comment? >> guest: i'm not sure if this is exactly what he's talking about, but the former presidents cashing in on the president and how it's become a situation where she's powerful in her own right and you look back at the jimmy carter who didn't profit from the presidency. he was endorsing companies that wouldn't even sign the memoir that had a brand name on it as he was concerned it would look like he was endorsing this brand of penn.

so we've seen this enormous amounts of money and if so there's a sense of profiting and i think about that in the buck but at the same time we've given lots of money to charity. but there's something about getting paid $500,000 for an hour-long speech it seems ridiculous. >> host: her latest book is team up to five in the age of trump and also the author of the best-selling residence and first women who contributed to "the new york times," "vanity fair," "washington post" and al is joining from st. petersburg florida.

>> host: >> caller: in regards to the book cover i really like that five politicians and you're absolutely right politicians and donald trump isn't a politician as we all know and the one thing when you are interviewing him and he answered one of the questions straight out, no lie, straightforward and that speaks to me and that's the way that i would rather have a president act into the woman who called earlier and said she's the most divisive first a reaction to his comment. >> i think it's right absolutely the thing is voters like most is

that he does tell it like it is. that's what he thinks and he speaks very openly and plainly. i was very impressed when i went to the oval office looking very intensely at the focus of the time he really wanted to get into and he was very honest but he doesn' doesn't sit well withf the former living presidents. so to this point, yes that is what appeals most to voters. >> host: one thought about the cover and the body language you can see presidents bush, obama and clinton relatively close together and then a bit of a distance to the former president jimmy carter. i know it's just a photograph, but what does that tell you?

>> guest: it took me a while to even get that version of the photograph. many of them had jimmy carter further away standing to the side. he isn't part of this group in the way that he would like to be. he would get a call back from tomball in and was an intern in the carter white house and if you are getting a return call for someone who works for you you are supposed to be called back by the president. and i think he feels like he hasn't been given the proper respect. >> host: let's go to ruth joining from illinois. good morning.

>> caller: good morning, everyone. sorry about how the country is going. but i want to ask two questions. when the riots happened when president obama was in office, what was his comment on the riots? >> guest: >> caller: they were the same as president trump. these people keep calling in about separating their children at the border. there was a good reason that he felt to separate families. it was to find out what kids belonged to what families.

>> guest: one thing that i found interesting is when i spoke to the bush family they have naturalization ceremonies at the bush center these are just things they would do anyway so now even very simple things about how freedom of the press are you criticizing president trump he sometimes takes these things very personally. so i don't know if that answers the question, but it made me

think about that. >> host: you indicated that the library would be in florida can you explain? >> guest: he said he hadn't given it much thought he said he knew the real estate better than anyone and my thoughts are that it would probably make more sense to have it in florida because new york city especially haven't welcomed donald trump. it doesn't make sense for him to have a presidential library there. i could see it absolutely.

in the post-presidency it will have a lot of revelations and be much less guarded than others have been. >> host: duane is next from jamaica new york. good morning. >> caller: good morning. donald trump has hijacked the republican party and we all know this. he grew up in new york and he is totally bamboozled the republican party. the real conservatives are looking at him saying he could destroy the party for many years. right now it's just with him, get him out of office and bring

the country back. they will fit into this anyway donald trump certainly won't because it reaches across the aisle. when he was a senator he worked with republicans and cared very much about these institutions, but i would also think my book is also about these relationships and friendships between republicans and democrats and to the caller's point, there has always been respected, even grudging admiration. i have a story about his two

days before he passed and the two of them were close. they had a lot of respect for bush 41 and among the last of the greatest and obama respected that. so i think there will be a time that they can go back to the feeling of respect and admiration that they've traditionally had for one another to some extent. >> host: i asked the president trumpeted was a difficult decision that cost the famous desk because the most difficult decisions reached the president and have given him a new understanding and empathy for the man who had come before him. no, he replied. he shouted say hi to president

bush in a voice late and with sarcasm. >> guest: i found the interview very defensive. it was literally sit at the top and i couldn't imagine obama doing something like that. he was an outsider and i was just really struck by that. there was also the top-secret letter from the north korean leader that shows this to be you

can't report within this letter but look at what i'm doing in north korea that no one else has been able to accomplish. so i think that speaks to the sense that he is an outsider and reporters are not being fair to him and our interview was kind of a chance to be heard. >> host: arlington virginia, good morning. >> caller: good morning. i had a comment into question. first of all i read your other book the residence and liked it. it's interesting. and my question is you talked about the norms and traditions. under obama there was the steel dossier for the foreign source supplied to the fisa court to try to bring down a presidency. i was wondering what have they

used to spy on them to bring their political opponents? coast for the senate judiciary committee will hold a hearing on the origins of that investigation. it will be live on the c-span networks. >> guest: the only other example i can think of that comes to mind is a thing he thinks about in the book that came out in 2015 and it feels that that was 20 years ago because so much had changed just and of course there was division in the obama years that got increasingly worse and worse and people are really taking sides and i try to do is to show the

way the presidents have come together and the bush family didn't like him at all in how he comes together to raise money and so i'm looking at the divide but also there is a chapter on caching in and how they've made up so much money off of this suspicion, so i think that it's a pretty bipartisan account. >> host: the news cycle moved so quickly, the story thato thes front and center wednesday and thursday in the executive order now may have subsided a little bit because of the demonstrations over the weekend but this is a headline trump versus twitter this is what you need to know about the showdown following that executive order and going back to the interview that we conduct it back and july

of last year we asked about his use of twitter. >> did you ever regret sending one out? >> the one about the wiretappi wiretapping. it was about a moment after. you could save a a lot of debate with the times you will say something that sounds good but it turned out to be from a player that wasn't the best in the world so that's what causes a problem. but otherwise i would say no, it is a modern-day form of communication and what it really is as soon as i do it everybody

puts it on and the president has just sent good morning. it's an incredible because communicating. >> you write about this in the book as well. >> guest: one of the things that infuriated barack obama was the wiretapping allegations president trump mentioned. they went to his staff and said absolutely obama did not wiretap and i was surprised by that but it wasn't strong enough to his liking. obama feels like he's pushed into a corner but yes, trump is

right. any time, the media does cover it. so it is a way for him to directly communicate with people and not have to go through the traditional channels. if you are a news organization and don't mention things very controversial, then you're not doing your job. you have to highlight that. he found this way of communicating. it's been an amazing use of the cover of thpower of the preside. >> host: they use of this for facebook and other companies is part? >> guest: is very concerning.

i think it's very important, you are the most powerful person in the world, which the president is. you have to be very thoughtful in what you are communicating and i think that as he himself says sometimes it is at four in the morning which i think is also interesting because i asked him if he has trouble sleeping as so many others have and he said no, he does just fine but if you look at the time stamp on some of these then you have to wonder he's up all night. the power of those is hard to quantify and you have to understand that it may sense to be truthful in them. >> host: rose is waiting in chicago. good morning. >> caller: the trump says it

like it is comment was the woman regarding the steel dossier regarding ron johnson and i am wondering if the author paid attention to the freedom fest 2015 and when trump arrived and took a question on the spy.

july 5, 2018. now he says it like it is. i've broken more elton john records. he seems to have a lot of records and i've either way don't have a musical instrument. i don't have a guitar or organ. she has an organ and lots of other people helping. we've broken a lot of records and virtually every record because you know, look, they need much more room. they need a lot of room. we don't need it. >> host: thank you for joining us this morning.

>> guest: is a master of hyperbole. he said he would be the most popular person in europe if it were not for asking them to pay their fair share. he knows the state better than anybody. this is what people like about him. i think we are going to continue to see them do it because when you see some of these things that gets people's attention. he is so different from the presidents of team before him especially barack obama. i attended several press conferences and he took a long time to answer the questions very thoughtfully. i think if people wanted someone who would quickly get to the point and not necessarily make things too complicated. >> host: david from south carolina. good morning. >> caller: this is a slightly different perspective.

one of the main things about donald trump is that he was such a long shot during the primaries and an initial part of the primaries and the fact that he was selected or nominated came as a huge surprise if i want to offer a perspective from the point of view of one of many who didn't consider myself racist and never does. i felt good when president obama was elected. i just felt good for the other side. it was something that there was a warm feeling and i hope that they would have brought the country together but by the end of the second term, we were a lot of americans like myself are tired of hearing about race. and i think the election of donald trump is a reactionary movement on the people that went wild but were tired of hearing

about race in almost every issue, so i think that is one of the reasons he was elected as a reactionary movement to what we had under president obama. and none of this was ill meaning. it was just a mantra of the democratic party to list the underserved party were underserved population due to history. but that's what i think. >> host: we will get a response. >> guest: i think back to when i was recording my book, the residence. one was 91 and passed away from coronavirus. when they saw them there on

inauguration day, their eyes filled with tears. many of them lived in segregation. you hear michelle obama talk about living in this house. i agree that moment in history was important and george w. bush was emotional. i think there is something very important about that moment to remember, and also what was happening outside of the white house and the surprised the staff have. >> host: the iconic photograph back in 2009 as you point out, good morning. >> caller: good morning, steve. i always enjoy you so much as a moderator. i'm finding this conversation very interesting.

ms. brauer said that the president was it like it is and that's what people like about it but we should also mention he was selling more than 20,000 lives while he tells it like it is and also you mentioned they are profiteering that you didn't mention the fact anyone associated with them flew through the seat grid service within six months of the presidency. i want you to provide not just for the statement out there but also provide other sides of it. thank you. >> host: thank you.

>> guest: in the book i do point that out and the larger point the book makes is a cap way things used to be. look and see where obama and clinton and jimmy carter came together in the past and again and again, ronald reagan sent them to the funeral in cairo egypt and here's this incredible site of three former presidents and byron the plane and jimmy carter and gerald ford there was a lot of bad blood between them but they became friends on that trip and so they became so close

he asked jimmy carter to get his eulogy. when i asked jimmy carter about it, he was emotional and said he is someone i think about a lot and i treasure our friendship. we would always want to ride together in the car. we love long trips to places. this is about those friendships across party lines. it's not about the steel dossier and what's going on with michael flynn and constant chaos and controversy and putting that in the framework of what we see today because you can't imagine donald trump becoming friendly with any of these former presidents. he said he's open to a friendship with bill clinton but a few dates back to the 2016 election, he invited the women

that accused him of rape to a debate with hillary clinton. how can you move beyond that, you can't. some things have become so vicious that i think it's changed the way the former presidents are going to interact going forward. >> host: people go to barbara next. >> caller: hello, steve. she keeps talking about how honest and great he is. i'm sorry. i just have two things. one is out of order, he is the one that hires. last year he had to pay 25 million. he was sued by them at the end. he hires them and doesn't pay

them speak of seeking out and said we fired 20 of them after saying they never hired them. i watched this man for 50 years. he's lied to us and has done these things over and over again and i just don't know why we don't talk about that. and then his trump university, why do you have a president that sets up something and then steals every penny you have. they both kind of person does that? >> caller: >> host: thank you from the call from arizona.

>> guest: what i was saying in a simple way there is a contrast between the thoughtful approach president obama took were even george w. bush has that compassionate conservatism that was demonstrated so often. there was a special contrast with donald trump who is talking about america first and it's just a very different approach. i'm looking through that

political lens and it's dividing the country in a way that is very bad for our democracy. >> host: the book is titled the team of five. our guest kate anderson. before we let you go, one other development because we've been following the story. the summit, initially it was going to be in florida, then moved to camp david. there was going to be a virtual summit, than here in washington in june. angela merkel the german chancellor since she's unable to attend and now it's been moved to september. what does that tell you about a german leader sayinthe german lt now i am not coming to the summit? >> guest: these fractured relationships are not only between donald trump and the american predecessors, bigger between donald trump and the world. he has created a wad of dough

will and i think the relationship between angela merkel and obama was different. but it's so strange with donald trump again and again. so the people who were top cabinet officials in the trump white house say they were shocked by some of the things that he said about the predecessors and foreign leaders and just kind of the disrespectful way that he spoke about them privately. so again it speaks to these fractured relationships. >> host: training from her home in maryland, good luck with the book. thanks for being with us.

.. >> good afternoon. and the director