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tv   Catharine Arnold Pandemic 1918  CSPAN  July 10, 2020 11:56pm-12:51am EDT

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britain transferring all of that land to the united states. there was no guarantee that the british were going to do that. in fact, the more conversations going on throughout the end of the war the maybe if he still should be negotiated. maybe steps qualified and people will hold things as work for an important with the appalachian trail, or kept land claimed by the phobic halfbreed that is huge amount of indian country. the washington is counting on the united states getting. kevin: that is fascinating. i know everyone like at mount vernon and everybody cares about george washington and the native american studies and history are glad that he brought all of these elements together.
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and thank you for taking an hour to talk to us about this. and coming to mount vernon and doing our closure. we were excited to bring you back for a conversation about this book so that we can reach out to people in their homes. as everyone stays safe and hunkered down. thank you so much. i'm so grateful. no one watching, thank you for spending time with us. i hope you have learned something. i hope you continue to stay engaged with what mount vernon is putting out to you predict i would care about what we do. i know that now, through the end of the year in the indenture, will continue to bring you things . sunday will be able to again meet between now and then, continues for mount vernon. and please continue to donate if you haven't already. and join us on monday for broadcast. and if you haven't already, go
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by this book. thank you so much colin. >> book tv on "c-span2", stopped nonfiction books and authors every weekend. coming up this weekend, sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern, and afterwards. author and former college president and political commentators examines what he calls the new face of socialism in the united states. what is becoming part of our political culture. in his book, unit and united states of socialism. he's interviewed by benjamin powell and then at 10:00 p.m. eastern, it's doctor ezekiel emanuel, former specialist to the director of the office of management interested during the obama administration. discusses his book, which country has the world's best healthcare. watch book tv and "c-span2". this weekend. ♪
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>> now look back at the 1918 condemning. historian catharine arnold provides a global account of the pandemic and the americans rogers museum. with her book "pandemic 1918". ♪ host: we are grateful to all of you for being here and valuing this past present and future called reading and writing. the stories of how to live in the present and plan for the future. perhaps no air in their histories martin started to us right now in 1918 when the contingent ravaged the world, closing businesses. in killing hundreds of thousands. her talk with us about what became known 102 years ago as the spanish flu is catharine arnold who portable years of
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eyewitness accounts of the book illustrated of his early beginnings at places like the military base in kansas. to his effect on a number of prominent american writers like john steinbeck. she read english at the university of cambridge. she's the author of several books about the history of women. ... ... >> in telling the story of this disease, you focus on first person accounts from doctors, nurses, from children all over the world. why did you choose to take such a personal view of the pandemic? >> i wanted to write a book that people could relate to. i wanted to write a book about spanish flu if where people could read it and find characters like themselves. at times it was almost like a disaster movie. you know, it's got people stuck
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on the titanic or whatever. it's a spectrum of personality types, and people, you know, somebody that you can relate to with respect to their experience whether it's because of their age, their gender or their religious background. so many people got caught up in this and, of course, how many people died. it was also because there were books about push flu around at the time. -- about the spanish flu at the time. excuse me. but they tended to be mostly academic, so they were very much written by academics for academics. so they looked at, strictly speaking, the medical side of it, about the epidemiology or even the geographical side or the economic consequences and less so about the lives of the people involved. because i'd been a feature
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writer at a bug regional daily, it was important for me to really bring it alive, just to tell readers these were living, breathing, suffering people just like yourself. >> in the book's opening pages, you say it's hard to imagine a sum scenario -- similar is scenario, you know, schools shuttered, morgues and hospitals overwhelmed, cities coping with hundreds of dead and dying today. do you still feel that way, or are we seeing history repeat itself in front of our eyes? >> it's very solitary. when i was writing, i had no idea we would have another pandemic. for one thing, i've been reassured by various sources that such a thing would not -- [inaudible] in such the same way. i'll get back to that. what was curious to me when i was writing this was a day like this, you know, a beautiful spring day, a nice street in the suburbs, everything seeming absolutely marvelous. and i just thought suppose it
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was like this in the street in an area of maybe chicago or philadelphia. somebody's just sitting there writing, somebody's daughter is saying -- [inaudible] and then suddenly out of nowhere this terrible thing strikes. people in the streets start getting sick and dying more and more every day. well, to imagine a scenario like that would have been like a horror story. i took comfort in the fact that i'd been told that things had been dealt with. in this country they've handled it comparatively well with lockdown. but i thought there was far more in the way of government control standing between us and total annihilation, and i'm realizing now that there's less of that,
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unfortunately. of course, the big difference now is numbers. coronavirus has been terrible, and it has killed, i think, around 250,000 worldwide. it's killed nearly 100,000 in the states. but nothing like the scale of 1918 when, you know, 1 is 00 million -- 100 million people lost their lives, an almost inconceivable number. 550,000 people in the states died. that was more than the losses in the first world war. and, of course, the symptoms are different. so this is a little taste for us. this is kind of like a mini pandemic compared to what we went through a hundred years ago. we are getting -- [inaudible] of the colossal existential crisis that people faced, that real feeling that you are to lives were at risk -- our lives were at risk from something horrible.
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you know, we all, all of us know sooner or later we have to die, but it's quite a big shock suddenly to be told you could lose your nearest and dearest or your own health at risk if you step outside your front door. it takes a little getting used to, and i think younger people, the my millenial generation, hae really struggled with it. >> you've focused on london, on members of the royal family. how dud you become -- how did you become fascinated with this disease? >> well, previous books -- [inaudible] although e previous books about london are all about the dark side of london, the steamy underbelly. treatment of mental health, capital punishment, the sex industry. but they're centered on london. because i've written about the dark side of london, i thought
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it seems natural to me to do a book on the spanish flu in london. so at first i contacted my agent, as we kind of discussed it and i began to investigate it, it became obvious to me that perhaps i better do a book about spanish flu -- [inaudible] but then we realized it was a global thing, and the best way to approach it was to attempt to write about it globally. it had its own problems in terms of creating a narrative. that was one of the reasons i used so many eyewitness accounts. because spanish flu, like all pandemics, it's going on at a lot of places at the same time. [inaudible] china or the united states. it was literally all over the place. and trying to come up with narratives for it was like trying to nail jelly to the wall. so that was quite time-consuming. but it was also a personal
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connection because my followers -- [inaudible] my father had lost both of his parents to the spanish flu in the last year of world war i. so this terrible thing had happened in my family, meanwhile, i have no family at all on his side. nothing. i met nobody. and the fact he wouldn't talk about it made it even more intriguing. it kind of hung over my childhood like a dark pall. so it became something significant to me to write about. i had a sort of score to settle almost. >> yeah. what was your research process like? particularly in the u.s., where did you find reliable information, and how did you go about getting access to it? >> some of it was already there. some of it, pbs made a brilliant series about 20 years ago where
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they interviewed last surviving people who had spanish flu or lived through it. obviously, most of the those people had passed on by now. i also looked to people's memoirs. i thought, well, anybody notable who lived through that period, so i did that. i also looked into newspaper records because, obviously, there were some great newspaper sources. you can find useful material and anecdotes. and also i looked at the more academic books where people had, for instance, written articles about spanish flu in alaska. so investigation into trying to find the affected tissues, the dna of people who die of spanish flu. some written investigations took
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place by journalists as well. so a number of sources. in the u.k. quite a lot of the -- [inaudible] museum which proved useful. >> you mentioned that, you know, more people die from this event than from world war i, but world war i was an important vector in moving the disease all over the world. tell us a little bit about the role of troop movements and how that influenced the way that the disease spread. >> world war i was terrifically influential partly for the way it spread the disease, partly for the way the disease -- [inaudible]
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the disease wasn't tackled with the same vigor as people are trying to tackle coronavirus now. so while spanish flu would probably have is are spread locally inevitably at the time, world war i really speeded up the process because you've got, for instance, troop ships going from the u.s. over to europe to fight in france and back again. on a larger scale, you've got troop ships from the allies and the germans going around the world to places like capetown and bombay and taking with them. the only place that successfully kept it out until january 199 was australia -- 1919 was australia where they had a very vigorous attitude towards quarantine which was only relaxed after the end of the war when it got in in the january of
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1919 and around 9,000 aussies lost their lives to it. but, yeah, if you think of the war, it turned the globe into a giant petri dish really with the flu just being spread around in every conceivable way. when it wasn't spread by troops inadvertently, it was also spread by public transport. and in the u.s., by the postal service. one researcher was trying to work out why native alaskans and native americans were dying in their hundreds, and it turned out it was because the postal service was still getting through to them. and it was inadvertently, without their knowing, spread by the guys who were delivering the mail. [inaudible conversations] >> oh, go ahead. >> -- was just that because it was so, is up a huge and
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fundamentally vital event, all the focus really went on winning the war rather than stopping the virus. >> well, the war also played a role in news about the virus having been, you know, suppressed or downplayed. why would that have happened, and what effect did it is have? >> that was mostly a question of morale. if to start off with, certainly in the u.k. if a newspaper delved too deeply into reports of this strange new killer flu that a had come in the summer and was killing people, it would have been suppressed by something call dora or -- [inaudible] other ways of devaluing it or making it seem trivial, to make it an object of ridicule which happened in the london times in
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june which suggested people should just man up and get on with it. in september in the u.s. when it looked -- well, when the spanish flu was making a bold return after dying back in the summer, again, the merchant authorities were saying, well, yeah, okay, but it's not that bad really. brushing it under the carpet because the last thing you wanted was the men panicking because other guys were dying on their base and all around them. and you didn't want a collapse of morale particularly in the states where possibly certain people could use it to their own ends and say i should have told you we should never have entered the war, you know? look, our guys are dying. there's kind of a way in which you can understand why they were trying to control information and suppress it. but at the same time, if somebody wants to get at the truth, then it's frustrating because people deserve to have
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known what was going on. and, of course, it got to the point where you couldn't really deny that this was happening because every newspaper in the united states was carrying this huge banner headline in 90 point with huge death tolls. >> the disease also had, it had a profound effect on some prominent american writers. in your book you mention thomas wolf, john steinbeck, mary mccarthy, you mention katherine anne porter. what -- how -- tell us a little bit about what they went through and how out affected their writing. >> sure. what's interesting about them that there weren't more. only those four writers. and the humorist, james berger. those were the sort of preeminent people i could find in the states who had gone through it or knew of it. it's quite surprising that as a phenomenon it wasn't written
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over and written about, mythologized the way the war was. well, in katherine anne porter's case, she was a journalist in colorado in the rocky mountain news. and she was divorced, single gal, lived on coffee e and cigarettes so she could spend all her money on clothes. and she was living in lodgings when she became ill. and her landlady took one look at her and threw her out. so then katherine turned to -- [inaudible] and he managed to find her a hospital bed without which she would probably have died. even as katherine was lying in hospital here and behind the screens, hearing the doctors talking about her, giving up on her, her colleagues back at the rocky mountain news were setting her obituary in type. as a journalist, it just makes me shudder to think about. he pulled through, but she had -- she was violently ill, and when she was recovering, she
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tried to get out of bed and broke her arm. and then she had one of the distinctive things which is her hair turned white overnight. and it never grew back to its natural color. she had to dye it black for the rest of her life. but katherine had lucky escape. he took the attitude about it and she says about this in pale writer, her memoir, it made me decide what i needed to do. i decided if i was going to be a writer, i should jolly well get on with it. so she did are -- have a good outcome. she did, sadly, lose her lover in the flu. mary mccarthy suffered really badly. when news of the flu began, mary's about 9 years old, and her folks decided rightly to go back home to i think it was minneapolis. we're going to go back to the midwest anyway. from seattle. and her father was a bit of a
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waste. he was a playboy. he was always broke. if on -- on the train they soon became sick, and the conductor wanted to throw them off the train at a station in the middle of the prairie. so to mary's astonishment, her father pulled a gun on the conductor, and he sort of -- strongest moment ever of his life, he said, well, i'd like to see you try. but they died. and mary's grandparents were there to meet her at the station when the train arrived. she e never saw her parents again, and she was brought up by a very cold, distant relative. i'm sure they were just trying to do their best, but she said it changed the course of her life. he said if she'd stayed in seattle -- she said if she'd
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stayed in seattle, she'd have married a lawyer, she'd have belonged to a book club, and that would have been it. as it was, she went off and became this firefriend intellectual and -- firebrand intellectual and contributed to the new yorker. so i think it did change the course of her life. and finally, briefly, i don't know steinbeck caught push flu, nearly lost -- spanish flu, nearly lost lung. recovered, but he was always a bit strange after that. quite often spanish flu survivors had medical problems for the rest of their lives and a common one was depression. it's said that he suffered from this. and nervous diseases in both sense of the word. oh, yes, and thomas wolf from, in look homeward angel he writes a thinly disguised -- [inaudible] of losing his brother who, again, was sort of wasteful. the man hadn't done much with husband life, but the
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description of his actual decline and death is heart-rending. and it's a very good piece of american gothic as well. it's an outstanding piece of writing. but you would have thought given that this is a nation that's produced so many great writers especially in that general ration that there would be more about spanish flu. >> yeah. yeah, i was struck by the way that it seemed to have disappeared from, you know, from the collective cultural memory. and i was wondering if you had thoughts on why that was. >> yes. i think it was because if it --t was just so horrible. this one writer i quote in the book whose name escaped me at the moment, he subsequently became a literary agent at the new yorker and, indeed, worked for mary mccarthy. he said after his mother and unborn sibling died, the world just changed for him forever.
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something was lost. there was a kind of sadness which never went away. i think because surgeons were so ghastly, so grow testing, the -- grotesque, the loss was so harrowing, this was something people could not deal with on top of the war. it was common enough to know your menfolk would go away to the war, possibly not come back. that was unpleasant but kind of culturally acceptable. but to lose people at home in bed from this monstrous disease was a whole lot more difficult to deal with, especially when say in europe people had already lived through four years of it. in the states they've had the runup to it and the anxiety of seeing their young men march off to france. so this was just the final straw after a long and painful experience of war. and i think that's one of the reasons people do not want to remember it.
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>> just a reminder for those of you who are watching, we if you do have a question, you can type it into the q&a box. i'm going to ask catharine a few more questions, and then we're going do your questions. we'll contact you by chat to find out if you'd like to ask your question yourself. in reading the book, i was struck by, you know, a number of parallels to today, but the one i found most interesting is when the disease really did take hold and people started to say, all right, we need to, you know, we need to socially isolate, we need to -- people need to wear masks, there was some resistance to that, correct? >> correct. yes. this was quite late, late on really in the pandemic because in january 1919 we had what was called the third wave because this flu, hike certain other
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things -- and we hope not coronavirus, please, god -- it came in waves. a bigger onslaught, then it would die back and then return even worse. so the third wave was raging away in san francisco in january 1919, and the mayor of san francisco, north, i believe, said, right. from now on, if you go out, you have to wear a mask. mask wearing is mandatory even though legally it wasn't enforceable. police had to orders to arrest anybody who's seen out without a mask. people were happy to comply because they'd already lived through the worst of it, and the last thing they wanted was to go back to the kind of conditions they'd witnessed in september and november. however, as always, there's always a group of people who don't agree, and in this case they started something called the anti-mask league. this group was composed of
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physicians, libertarians and cranks. is so they had a meeting, we're not told whether this took place outside because that would have been safer. they had a meeting, and they're all kind of sensible and said, well, what we should do is we should do a petition and send it to the mayor saying we don't agree with this mask wearing. please, just don't make it compulsory. but, of course, the more radical ones were, like, no, this is unconstitutional, this is against our rights, this is not what it is to be an american. we don't want to wear these dumb masks. and this rumbled on for several weeks. and then at one point an improvised explosive device was sent to the public health offices in san francisco. and it contained something like three pounds of gun powder and
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some shot and an alarm clock. so you can imagine what would have happened if it had been detonated. mercifully, it wasn't. but soon afterwards the mayor said, right, okay, next council meeting we're going to say masks are no longer going to be compulsory are. but he did add this sort of caveat that if we lift the mask regulation, you do realize, don't you, that the death toll is going to rise. and everybody was like, yeah, so. and within about ten days of getting rid of masks being compulsory, 300 people died. of spanish flu. so, yes, of course, there are parallels with particularly the scenes in michigan some weeks ago when people were calling for the governor to be murderedded. i think -- murdered. >> the coronavirus that we're currently dealing with has had serious outbreaks in prisons, in prison populations. and the 1918 flu had the, much
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the same scenario. there was a doctor there who you, you quote in the book, dr. stanley, who, you know, had a very controversial, you know, in some causes horrifying approach to the diseasement can you tell us a little bit about how it proceededded through the prisons? -- proceeded through the prisons? >> just briefly, i think the most shocking aspect of this was that dr. stanley used his prison as almost, well, as an experiment to see how easily his male prisoners would catch inflew if went sa virus -- influenza virus. so he would deliberately put infected men in a recreation room in the prison with people who were not infected. he later conducted a number of grotesque experiments which i can't go into in too much detail
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that involved castrating various people and giving their castrated genitals to other prisoners to see if this would change their levels of problems. so it's not for the squeamish. but i think it was the unethical nature of this. i mean, obviously, prisons -- like schools and like barracks or military bases -- were places where everybody was crammed in close together. and, obviously, the contagion could spread swiftly. but i think dr. stanley is a supreme example of somebody taking advantage of the kind of natural experimental qualities of the disease and just exploiting them. >> we have quite a few questions from some folks, and so we'll take those in just a second. just a reminder to type that into the q and a box. i just want, i want to ask you
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what lessons you feel the, that 1918 can teach us. what's, what do you think we can learn from, particularly from this in our current moment? >> it's a good question. i think the main thing that we've learned is to throw everything at it which, obviously, they weren't able to do in world war i because the main focus was on winning the war. i think we've learned a lot in terms of the value of social distancing, mask wearing if you need to, quarantine and general hygiene. personally, i think people have become a hot more supportive and friendly to each other. on the street people who live in the same neighborhoods and communities have been overwhelmingly supportive of each other. but that national level, obviously, in my country and in yours it's been a lot of
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political unrest and uncertainty about the way the authorities are handling it. i think we've learned more to trust science. in those days, of course, there was very little scientifically that they knew about influenza. they a realized that it was spread from person to person and it was highly contagious, but they were only just coming to terms with the idea of the virus. the electromicroscope is not invented until the 1930s. the first flu vaccine wasn't developed until around 1938. what we're doing now, obviously, we've got scientists who are working night and day to try to develop a vaccine. although, of course, they may not do so, and it may be that we have to live with this awful virus for the next, well, rest of our lifetime probably and mask up and gown up against it. i think we've learned, as i said, to make it our focus because we're not involved in a
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massive global conflict. and i think we've learned a lot about being more patient. i'm always amazed by the amount of people i know who will comply with the rules, and if they're told stay home, shop at the supermarket wear a mask, they do so because they realize the importance of not just looking after themselves, but their communities and their loved ones. so those are the take-home lessons. >> we have a question from sandra. sandra, if you'd like to ask your question? >> hi. yes, thank you for this. can you hear me in. >> yeah, yeah. >> okay. i, it's my understanding that this pandemic originated in the united states, and i'm wondering why is it referred to as the
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spanish flu. and also is there anything to be revealed from the tendency to associate places with pandemics like the hong kong flu and donald trump and others have been quotedded calling the coronavirus the chinese virus, that sort of thing. .. catharine: this was out of europe and the uk. initially that was at the same time. there is a barrier. in the spanish flu, it really
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came out of and transformed in spain. in may of 1919. "pandemic 1918". it showed up in spain. and then he killed many. but because it became this huge, it's possible to discusses when the press. they can say what they liked. the magazines. just discussing the flu and spain, the spanish flu, had nothing to do with the spanish people themselves. they in fact, another name. and it's kind of a bit of advice when people name the disease after country. from the hong kong luke of the asian flu. and not acceptable these days.
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we call it coronavirus. so the kind of answers your question. yes, there is a tendency to train outwards. many people blame this on spain. because pain was so natural. and degree is on the call at the hong kong flu or maybe even the wilpon flu. and different names. and they said that it was communists. there's a name for it in the way the people that names things .
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>> this is from natosha rated. >> my question is it's really interesting to hear from this papers and played pandemic back then. some curious, have to question. people generally trusting of the menu during this time. like newspapers and radio. as my first question on the other question is how the people get the public health information . speech of the first one. catharine: as i mentioned earlier in this talk. the newspapers one of his position that than if they sent too much about what was really happening, they were basically spiked. eventually couldn't print certain materials because i would set the moral during the
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war. not so much in the states pretty coming looked is one of the mysteries of his time. the fact was that people were getting their information to the press. they get more information in the u.s. from the press then we were over here. and many people were in europe did along with generally people trusting the press these days. was the fact that some people would be void of the resources. we know within seconds what happens because it goes around the world the social media. then you can go for weeks and thought no close happening in the next village. this is the reason that it spread so quickly because people do not realize the enormous and what was happening. didn't realize just how contagious this thing was made
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in britain, then instances of people not knowing the people work dying in the hundreds in manchester itself. and now there's another part to your question. >> the segment was how do people get their public health information. and with public campaigns by government. catharine: yes the worst brain in the united states. the surgeon general, and by september you see the horror and the impact then traveled to the united states . and he came up with a whole lots of instructions. it was public information. all of the instructions that you would expect. he had no authority to encourage
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these things. so could only recommend. but the states did was to print and advising people what to do. and in many places deep clearing spaces of public entertainment in churches because i was one way of controlling the spread. and advertising was another. so comes in is an advertisement. in the business is making money. and their information is still a great use to the public previous even if you do it get that commute you put any paper would tell you that they might help. esther might help . cleanliness is important above all. in the spanish flu one of the legacy among previous
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generations, art lifelong obsessions of cleanliness. everything was always being wiped down and scrubbed and rinsed. in windows were being left open to prenuptial this part of the legacy. hope that helps. >> in america, is there no way to alert neighbors to the fact that people were in quarantine. was there a way, assigned to post on the door pretty how did they get the word out that they were, the people should not come in. catharine: it wasn't necessarily something they did. the fact that people locked
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themselves away as they do now. but you are just ill. in the way you knew if there was flu on your is you saw black crate that came to someone store in the new somebody death in the family. and then you can pretty much gather there was somebody that had the spanish flu. even a young child, and very soon news began to proliferate. and a little girl crying up in philadelphia. she said that one moment on the streets, and affected an entire community. she looked out the window there were the black wooden crates the doors.
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and in the community, and when things got pretty bad, you would learn that the was anything you can leave out . in our member, it was so fast and its impact so that half the street could go in a matter of days. >> we had a question from judy hill also wants us to read . from the 1919's, the flu were there significant racial and economic disparities as to who caught it and who died from it. >> yes it certainly . catharine: as if it was like today, when the coronavirus. although the high-profile examples.
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generally, people died and there could be social reasons. you had immigrant safe in chicago, many of the survivors, the house the poverty-stricken in substandard housing credit field tried to be as clean as possible what is very difficult. there is no sufficient sanitation. in the jewish communities in the polish communities. african american communities . they seem to separate unduly. and i think most of the economic wasn't south africa. the native african, they died in much higher rate than the white settlers. in new zealand, and much higher
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numbers. and again the white centralist . >> you alluded to this a little bit earlier when you were talking about them spreading the disease among native americans living in alaska. we have a question asking about conditions on native american reservations in the u.s. or the first nation. catharine: the two things came after this. the canadian example. the people who researched there, as the community something hated the idea of isolation. so two things reversible, they didn't have the systems with the spanish flu.
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the day and particularly for vulnerable. and they didn't live separately. so they tried to tell people about people who lived in cabin spread he said, don't go out, stay at home. but the distinction was to them, to be in your own was worse than the dead. they lived together as a community. they spent a lot of time together. so many people told them to state and cabins on the just died. we now know that many people who just as self isolate. while it seemed to me, that in alaska, this was extreme. the only really alive if you're with your peers. if you're single, you are alone
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anymore as good as dead pretty. >> we had a question about this thomas wolf book that was mentioned. catharine: yes. >> yes, i want to make sure we ask that predict and we have a question from jonathan that you indicated that if a vaccine developed, we may have to do with coronavirus for the rest of your lives. and as to a medical care, is there a period of time for the infection to sort of run its course based on your research. catharine: the trouble is, when the dark as much as people were in 1919. when terrifying things about our virus is which can't just say, it was not really fluid all.
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it has unknown quantities. and there's another book out kind of about this. recent are good article, she said we could live with social isolation in the next two years. and that could be when the vaccine is available. and that's the worst case scenario. [inaudible]. but it's not snowing thing because to us. if the pain-and-suffering that we have to go through. in the people who can't attend the deathbeds of the friends of family. and funerals. it's a huge crisis.
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i guess we will learn to live with it. that threat of terrorism, something horrible in the way that perhaps her grandparents are rooted prudent. allison: hundred that spanish by the 1918 flu, compare. catharine: good question. sources my book, suggest that it died, just became weaker and weaker. among the population. you could say was, like a herd immunity. but that's kind of been discredited. that we should just allow coronavirus to just go in and do or die. but that general understanding is that it became weaker and it died away. and obviously we don't know if
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that will happen with coronavirus pretty would be great if it did. the authorities think that the spanish flu. [silence]. [silence]. [silence].
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[silence]. and i just put down, something at the grocery store. so i think he learned that i don't think people write about it in any significant way. it's basically into stages. and thank you for publishing my book. think it's great for people to keep a diary.
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in 1914, in the uk, where people they would go in schools and churches. they were encouraged to save what they think life is like . and became saturated with authors. so either diary or you know, a real diary like that. will this is mine. because if you want to leave apostolate for your family or friends and family to read. look back on it ten years time. you might want to use it as a basis of the story. so yes, keep record of it. i do read. allison: thank you very much for your insights and the book itself which you can order by the link that we dropped in the lincoln the chat around . loop with a link back up again pretty thank you very much for being
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with us. thank you everyone for coming . ♪ >> coming up on book tv on "c-span2", look at the female pilots who served in the u.s. army air forces during world war ii. the conversation on the 13th and 14th and 15th amendments to the constitution. which were added during the reconstruction era pretty pathetic conversation by the political similarities between the south and the west. after the civil war. in later discussion about george washington's leadership of the native american leaders. look to be on "c-span2" stop nonfiction books and authors every weekend pretty coming up this weekend, honey 9:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards. author, former college president
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political commentators, examines because the calls the new face of socialism in the united states and what is becoming part of our political culture in his book, the united states of socialism pretty is interviewed bin human party on the 10:00 p.. eastern, doctor be sick you will emmanuel, former special is my advisor policy to the director of the office of management and funding during the obama administration. discusses his book, which country has the world's best healthcare. what quotidian "c-span2" this weekend. ♪ up next, female pilots who served in the u.s. air force. this is an event hosted by the national world war ii museum. host: , historian at the national exam. today i have the pleasure of

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