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tv   Eddie Cole The Campus Color Line  CSPAN  November 9, 2020 1:07pm-2:04pm EST

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>> we have a term that we had coined. and what that means is this is it an abstract notion. i am back now seeing patients see patients in the office at 40% of our previous volume. and when we get a little bit more cranked up we will be at 75% and we won't go higher than that. in order for us to meet the demands for patient care. we have to telehealth in embedded in our workflows now. if we can't do that. and the public health emergency and there are no ways to fix some of these regulatory restrictions. >> tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. on the communicators. on c-span two.
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tonight we have the pleasure posting it will be discussing the new book the campus color light. if you have not yet preordered a copy of the book please consider we have curbside pickup. with a limited capacity. weekends are busy. a monday or tuesday. we will share from guidelines in our chat. we also with our bookstore and our staff. it would be a walk-through with a platform. they will be joining us up on the screen. we will be taking questions
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with the audience. if you're looking at the bar below all the way to the right you will see q&a. that so that we can keep track of all of the questions. make sure to submit your questions. for the night. an associate professor of higher education. an organizational change and the author of the kenneth color line. it is published by princeton university press. he is a historian a black woman's history.
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and an assistant in the department of history with the university of texas at austin. remaking black power. how they transformed a era. you can find it at dr. ashley farmer. thank you both for being here tonight. hello. can you hear me. welcome everyone. we are excited to have you here. i'm just gonna dig right into our conversation it is a wonderful but meaty book. it so much to discuss. i want to make sure that we get a chance to hit on all of the wonderful dynamics. i like to ask people when they
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first start how did you get into writing this book. when did the idea come to you. was it something you set up in the middle of the night. if you can tell us one challenge and one treat of a rating. first off, thank you for joining me and happy to be in this conversation with dr. farmer. it's an answer that i continue to grapple with. the idea for the book comes to you from so many different directions. i like to say it actually started in my hometown. the west alabama and greene county total population lesson 400. this is where i grew up. something i noticed in my home county growing up in the rural black south weed one public
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health it was in the next town over. going to school we turn left. my high school public all black to the right but if you made a left there was a private smaller majority white academy. it have always been interested in they have the remnants of segregation. and how everyday we are every day we were going through this routine. we were having protests or anything. it was just the norm if you well. we would be at practice outside. back and forth. it's one of those things where i have always been thinking about educational leader. and the decision they made and the past. and how that shaped our presence.
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eventually writing a book on academic leaders. over time they continue to study more and more about your own experience and the black school experience. i came to realize that more and more the educational leaders weren't there exclusively. with them organizing that and so forth. over time that is what the idea started marinating and then my attention turned with the occupy wall street movement. they saw college campuses and look at how they were responding. and then moving into 2015 with the black activism's. and the rest of the nation you can go down the list.
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how do they respond for this sort of event. knowing the current moment at this time did not come out of nowhere. is one of the sinks where just in my own life. and then at some wanting to have an idea and another thing to actually do it. one unexpected challenge when you talk about the 1950s and 60s. it is really restrictions in the archives. it's almost as if 50 or 60 years ago. they knew some of the decisions they were making and so having the multi- decade restrictions most often the longest thing.
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it's one of those things if i wanted to write it ten years ago. i wouldn't have been able to. a lot of records were just being released. when it comes to the college presence and chancellors. i was just try to trying to get my timing right. i'll be back in a couple years. that was an unexpected challenge. but the unique treat wrap up. we were really thinking about the vulnerability. dan kalil is a special assistant.
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for black girls were killed as well as two additional killed children later -- killed later that day. they wrote a letter to another lid at night. i just can't sleep tonight. knowing that what has happened nationally in a week later they're coming to princeton to give a speech. you see the conflict happening and to really get a chance to talk with them. that remains a treat. i try to do the human aspect justice to it. >> i like that you say that. one of the things you and with
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elected officials and why. needing to improve the policy. also someone's very private conflict and belief. i thought it was a little bit provocative. your book is really timeless about the case. why do you think looking at this is a useful frame for us to understand them as people maybe the decisions that they make. it reminds us of the numerous stakeholders that they have to
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take a hold of. what dictates prominence. the relationship with the legislature. the stakeholders on some campuses. they are quite in tune with the faculty and they have a good strong relationship and things don't happen without that. right now we look every day in the news and we say who is really pushing the decision around. so that is very telling when you think of the college president of the elected official. the other aspect that you just mentioned. all of the issues that we are
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dealing with right now they really send back the policy. campus relationships with police departments. as well as city police. student death and the racial disparities with that. when we think about those issues we look towards our elected officials. the same issues on the college campus. we are looking towards people but we don't think about them as the same way to shape and mold policy. as universities they're not just reactive to the social issues they are involved in shaping another number of issues. i really love that.
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i was thinking to myself. i see the president as a i'm not sure at and one that is not located in an that was a provocative way of thinking one of the things that is great about the book of historically public universities are there things
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that you found that united in our all meeting in a way i did not they regardless of the i takes a if and then all of the to leaving on moving the university and addressing the bigger sides of united them
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was the we look over the middle decade of the century it's hard as pressing and complicated as that a and on the what's the importance of it if when you see some knockdown drag out fights. one example i get is in the state and the one real fight
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that happens the price of the u.s. of fight between the and who the funding is. should the support really then you get down to what we don't agree on what to do becomes a unique thing that you look across the present at
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the university of michigan on one end then you say here is the internal conversation with each other and then here is the back-and-forth and the multiple conversations and how people say one thing and the presidents heighten each other up. we are not doing this partnership. it is very telling of the black freedom of movement. being the significant location for cultural advancement.
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it will be the same as the rest of us in society. >> do you think that today the college presidents still define it that they have to deal with that is uniting them across. has that really change. i'm just thinking i can imagine some of these conversations about desegregation the racist incidents. in the stuff that's happening is quite similar. everybody is on an diversity initiative run. is it the defining thing of the college presidents today? i was a guest privately. i would love to hear i would be fascinated to hear what
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conversations they have after this. there is a shared concern. with a number of decisions that are happening right now but publicly, not so much. i think about the annual surveys where they have a chance to respond to his race. it's always some ridiculously high number. isn't that an issue. if you'd asked them across the same question. i would venture with the historical record. if that's any indication then yes behind closed doors. they are very concerned about race.
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it's just interesting to see. one of those things that struck me about the book if you visited at the center. that means you have to make deals. in the coalitions with people that are somewhat unlikely. there were moments where i was like wow, i didn't see that college president being on board. with this particular segment of the university or this surrounding area. will you be able to tell us and example of how they had had to make those things. can they therefore move the initiative forward so many examples in the book. two in particular stand out to me. if you are not even familiar with it know that it is a
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really large university. that makes the system. there is a president who has have of the system in each campus. that alone sounds complicated. imagine how it was when they were building the system out. one particular relationship that i did not see unfolding if you will that the university of california has it so large. it has the sub regional loyalties within the state. if you're in northern california that's one thing. so as they get that. an important figure. as chancellor from 1960. he actually has the
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hesitance. for the first time he will be for the system president. he was hesitant about taking the position. a number of very powerful southern california influences. people who read the la times. coming out of the poor's -- post world war ii. all the sudden the board of regents is really the fans of ucla. here is how can about on this particular issue. they just expect that to unfold. just to go back to princeton university in the 1960s is
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the reverend a.d. tyson. he actually gets on the same team as alan douglas. that same family john d rockefeller the third. in 1963. how does it come together. to agree that they should address some of the racial issues both on campus and in a princeton township. you just don't expect a pastor with that national or international figures. as the legal scholar talks about. it becomes the perfect example.
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they see that from a global perspective the u.s. reputation they really give the notch. they put forth the image that we have some strange relationships that emerge. the president's office. if you study a historical record. there is no campus decision where there isn't a little piece of information that goes through the office. >> what kind of deal is made. >> one of the things where they are naming pastors into regions. it seems to be a very male centered story.
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at least me wondering how did women factor into this and how should we understand them. did they they shape or influence. i think that's one of the most critical aspects of the book. the black freedom music meant as you know. women play some a significant roles in it. he knows that he has to play a bit of a game engaging with the right -- the white leadership.
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they will have that with the city groups. so many levels that i discussed from the book. they become president. we talk about that in greenville 1960. it was led by two black women specifically. these two black women have a series of protest.
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with the 1940s and 50s. it's in constant with these. they talk about them giving a honorary degree. all of the things that she has done for the nation. as you think about it. they have the former title. he's taking the queues so often so from the industry organizing. and then just to be frank also his wife elizabeth jenkins been a member of the sorority. throughout the east coast. with a number of fraternity and sorority national conventions. he is a scholar. they publish it.
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just a ridiculous amount. that's how he did it. in the 1930s and 40s. so yes, if you were to look at the title. and know the time frame. will they really read it. it's the many ways that they can see that when decided and i also had to mention that the president and the college. also historically black women colleges. they become the first black woman president of a four-year college. they have a two-year institution. by far she is the president in the book when it comes to the sit ins that started in 1960.
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when they step back as is all of the privileges. they could just go out and do the chapter to chapter. the chapter in the housing. as tentacles in the north. it is a black woman activist and a core. >> i love that. i love that you pointed out all of those things. when most people talk about the 1960. you get that kind of iconic picture. whether you could exceed college wise.
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they are willing to support the movement movements that we all benefit from. do you have something. i was about to ask you to elaborate more on the organizing. overall the commitment. >> i will hold onto that just for a second. i will get an audio question. just ask where there any white heads of the hbc. i don't focus as much on them. he is one of the last white
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presidents. they went to the early to mid- 1960s. the most part just sort of connectedness against the black college president. there is some distant friends and how you can navigate that. i don't discuss as much of the differences at the white leadership of black colleges black leadership. they know now as the publication. it was the private institution. they were actually provided funding and support. for the black residents of the state of maryland. something that you would assume was last to do that.
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they have that as a public institution in the process. it have a long longtime white president john o spencer which ultimately headline for the baltimore african-american. it speaks to the title of the book. it talks about president spencer. and morgan college at the college at the time holding the campus color line. in the sense that the color line that they were competent black contractors looking to do improvements. but oftentimes they went to white companies instead. that is one example of how you can have a black college but it was run by the white individuals. with the ideas about black students and black intellectual ability. good question. >> if you have more we will
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just type them in the chat. let's go back to the question of the student activism. one of the best interventions of the book. they do look at the movement from students moving up. but very few people look at what i it must look like. one of the things on the college campuses. it is an epicenter of black power. not only is this a place where the you find leaders whether that is the black society. but often it is a place that you see them writing a lot about racism and is important to emphasize that. i wonder if you might tell us a little bit about how the college presidents help us see
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different parts of student activism in that way. it has been so eye-opening. in writing a book like this. i am engaging with the literature for years. i always like to say at the college presidents have made a cameo frequently throughout this. we know the college president is going to be mentioned almost in any account. that is also in fiction writing also. it is a very big description. it's typically in response to the issue bubbling up to a certain level.
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before the issue becomes a headline if you well. also historically. that really could save us a lot of time if we pick up the conversation. if there is enough media presentation. oftentimes these things do not come out of the blue the publicly issued a statement may say that. we really learned a lot about
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how early rumblings of certain issues really come through the presidents of politics. years in advance so it may be an academic generation as i like to say ahead of time. before one group of students finally gets fed at ultimately what it says. the importance of formal institutional histories. we have these informal institutions. everybody knows a campus reference is a ration so we can do that. oftentimes. those same types of history's are whispered among ministers as well. >> i always do think about that. if you do private chats if you
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work in a place like that. you don't think about it as much about how the administration is often doing that. if you have other questions. you can put them in the comments in the book. one of the things i was thinking about as well. you never quite know the world that your book is born into. by virtue of the fact that we are having this conversation like this. i just kinda wonder how would you say the university as you know it has changed in a time when you started writing the book. this book. even the book i thought was
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good to be born six or seven months ago it is drastically different. we are talking about the semi or football is usually a given. in even the fact that to be clear. people have always raised concern about campus policing. with more black students. but in general now. there is even more questions the world i envisioned and what we were born into. they will likely had a few campus racial incidents. but the timing and the conversation now is spot on to really how things change and look in general. during the research i got to the point where i was like
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they were far more proactive than i could've imagined in shaping policies and practices both formal and informal. it became one of those things where right now we are in the moment where we are looking for college presidents to completely transform these institutions and not just another public statement. but actual money and mischief policies. to actually change and that has been a drastic difference in what i've said the last six or seven months. tech at a time to have that come out. and then have the moment where everything is virtual. and who has access to the internet at home and who doesn't. what a time to have this book.
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you have to do everything. it is a cult to try to lead. we have another question. do you think the power of college presidents had athletic leadership. can i just tack on to this. they put up the stadium at lsu. all i see is that those players are worth $80 million. i digress. the point simply here is our our college presidents simply just serving the interests of athletic leadership at this point. i'm torn on that one. it is hard to make a broad sweeping statement about college presidents. because a mullet --dash make a
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majority of conferences are not playing football. there are less than ten really big money making division i football that's actually playing right now. i went to a knowledge that. it's very clearly in the best interests of student athletes. not just football players. >> and also has fans. even though they are fewer. they're letting they are letting people into the stadium. there is another part. these big institutions i have my dr. indiana which is big ten. for the past five weeks.
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i don't know where to play after all. there is that part. is it athletic leadership i can bet there is a lot of elected official to president relation conversations. with the donors having some kind of conversation. i think there are a lot of influences knowing and that the big ten is universities. the state funding is very small for these institutions. they still have to uphold that.
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that's the actual vote. this is a history someone has to write 50 years from now they talk a lot about that vaccines himself. they were made on behalf of schools in college. i would be a whole another set of educational history. another question is what would you like to see more of from the campus leaders i think this means in the particular moment. i have adopted in early july. it was nice to make the symbolic changes. that is going to be the easiest thing that we will see right now particularly in the national race for the moment.
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we will see those moves taken down. there has to be operational changes. that's really what i like to see college presidents move forward with. it is a blatant conflict if you well. post george floyd. with the public statement. after john lewis was passed. you see them making these public statements. and now they are condemning that.
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even with the university of georgia. we are probably not can have students vote on campus. they will have to go into the community and the city. john lewis just passed. ultimately his whole professional life is committed to the voting rights. with all of the voting issues. it is just one example. you can make all the symbolic changes you want that decision came through the presidents office.
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it still came to the presidents office if we well. we need to see seek see more operational changes. not just talk about it. >> was someone who teaches black history on a predominantly white campus despite the faculty and the staff and it's never really respectful of the community for which the school is represented. and no one is obligated to do that. we need to think about that differently. what kind of climate even if you are letting folks be faculty or students there. when you are central abysmal numbers. how did they tell people that they are not welcome there. i would love to see curriculum changes. we still don't understand how
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much racial geography of the campus is really designing these ideas of black and brown people not being welcome. they help them not smudge connected the past. they are still very much a part of our life. i just want to leave us with a big ticket question. what current debates or decision with someone now understand better after having read your book. what are a couple of big things that once people read this book they would be like oh i get it now. see make a couple of things come to mind immediately. the department of education and the president tweets about
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patriotism. -- education in american history and patriotism. this is in the direct rebuttal to the product of the new york times. something like that. that means i saw that. and i saw the headlines a week or so ago about removing the terms with white supremacy from the federal government training issues. when you think about all of those headlines that just screams anti- communist issues. the 1950s. rearing back up again. and never went away. as they stir the base. they pour on the idea of the
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academia. and corrupting the mind of pure american citizens. you get much better clarity on that. they have to respond to that. it was a relative a question to how. anti- intellectualism in this sort of nationalism and rob rob patriots. if you especially want to change the curriculum. you read the book and you get a much better clarity on that. another headline that works will is affirmative action. all of these federal court cases challenging affirmative action cases. i'm at ucla. our campuses have the history
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of being in the spotlight for these questions. so historically you read about affirmative action and it's really one of the ending points to the book. when we think about it today we are limited almost exclusively to thinking about race is considered in college admissions. you're walking down the street. with the higher education. historically that was in it. john f kennedy and the education. they turn to academic leaders. they have such a hard time really pushing forward. they reached out to the college president and said help us in the nation address of the prominent racial issues in america and that becomes the initial affirmative action program. they were meeting together.
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there is immediate in april. and mit where all of them go home to cambridge. and they're trying to work out plans to nationally get the systemwide change on the table. as one program but the majority of other programs are geared towards historically black colleges. you see the tension between the white president. and they leave affirmative action with the government support for a number of white institutions. you can be in a headline today or an anti- intellectual dismantle school headline today and not see the connections for what i discussed in the book. >> after you've done all this research if you said tomorrow. would you take on the job knowing now the history of it and seen deep down with the details.
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>> that is a question i get asked often. i would turn that down. imagine that position today. knowing what i know historically and reading the private correspondence that many presidents i have far more institutions. i end up doing nearly 30 colleges and universities across the country. i have a new respect for the influence and the power that comes with the college presidency. and like ideas. i'm committed to investigating things to fully committed to an electric official. if you have any last questions
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just put them in the chat. as often as workers in the university you are somewhat positioned in the relationship with the power structure in away. understanding the position with more depth. and how much you really don't see. i do think it takes a special type of person to do it. .. ..
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>> you know, again think about racial policies and practices, i mean, and the role that presidents play in that. i think it's completely fair game to have that conversation with administrators and hold him accountable for the conversations they are privy to, if you will. that by far is different ways of reorienting our minds to thinking about the presidency because just like any federal commission he has turned toward us as academics or others experts and colleges and universities still have this reputation as being held up as this place for where we can solve the nation's problems and often times college presidents
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get called first because they leave the institutions expected to solve the nation's problems. they're involved with those conversations and they are certainly a powerful voice in the room and i think it's worthwhile of thinking of them that and then my other thought is, of course, grab your vote, just phenomenal work and i appreciate you taking the time to chat with me. >> i love this and how the decisions get made and how the world i very much know and inhabit [inaudible] i think our friends from book tv will come on and share a few final words with us but before i just want to thank everybody for joining us tonight bending your friday night with us in the midst of the pandemic and i hope you grab this phenomenal book soon. >> thank you both for being here
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tonight and for sharing your work with us and everyone watching at home for sharing your questions and this is a firm reminder to please grab a copy of the book that comes out on september 29 but you can preorder a copy from book people and i know you can immediately purchase your copy but preorders are important to books and really important to bookstores and authors so please do grab the link on the chat, preorder your copy and thank you all for coming here. >> thank you. >> this up in court hears oral arguments on the affordable care act and the consolidated cases of texas be california and california v texas. this is tuesday at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, the healthcare law was challenged by texas after a 2017 republican tax law eliminated the penalty for not having healthcare insu


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