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tv   German Marshall Fund Discussion on the Transatlantic Alliance  CSPAN  November 30, 2020 1:53pm-3:01pm EST

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>> and i'm very pleased to welcome our panelists and our viewers on both side of the atlantic. so good evening, europe. good morning, america. greetings from brussels. the topic of today, ukraine, georgia merging with nato, something i would say is almost partrt of the german marshall fund. we have been working for many years now on ukraine and georgia-related issue is. we do -- issues. we do -- [inaudible] support the new society and -- [inaudible] also by addressing -- [audio difficulty] so i also really want to thank our partners in this event, the new europe center for all support, they provide a terrific lineup of speakers ready to corrupt tonight. so today we want to dig a little bit more into the subject of
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ukraine and georgia's relationship with nato and especially how these countries fit -- [audio difficulty] selection process. a bit of an issue that was announced by the secretary-general to see how they're prepared for the next decade. and eventually maybe to use strategic concept, and i think this is not a luxury. the current one is from 2007, if i'm not mistaken, so i would argue there is a need to rethink nato strategy. the world that nato operates in today has certainly changed in about ten years. for instance, think about the increased presence of china and the european security landscape, think about the continued assertiveness of russia and key regions for trans-atlantic security, but also -- [inaudible] cyber warfare, cyber attacks. so the alliance must adapt, and
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if it wants to stay relevant, it will meet these challenges. but that also includes how nato with partners. it's crucial that countries like ukraine or georgia are included in this 2030 reflection process because increasingly nato's adaptation is depending also on the relationship with -- [inaudible] so i think in a nutshell, these are issues that we want to discuss today. what to expect from the 2030 reflection process, why does this process matter and what is the role of -- ik[inaudible] ukraine or georgia. we're also privileged today because our experts on the panel will give us an exclusive preview of the report that they wrote on this subject. so let me actually prointroduce our fabulous -- introduce our fabulous speakers today. first, the director of the new europe center.
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welcome to you. the cofounder of the georgia began institute for -- georgian institute for strategic studies, and a member of the european parliament but also actually a member of the group of experts of p the nato reflection proces. thank you very much for taking the time to be with us. we are also expecting olga to joinjo us, the deputy prime minister for european -- [inaudible] atlantic integration of ukraine -- [audio difficulty] and we will, obviously, include conversation. this conversation is on the record. we will first turn to our speakers but then also go to you with, the audience, for q&a. we really want it to be an interactive debate, so feel free, please, to use the zoom chat function. i'll be closely monitoring that
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and transfer your questions to our panelists. so we have about -- [audio difficulty] left for this conversation, and one of the authors of this report -- [inaudible] ukraine, nato integration -- [inaudible] on track, and which priorities do you see emerging? >> good evening. first of all, let me thank you, bruno, for the pickup in organizing this event -- pickup in organizing this event, for -- partnership in this event. as we -- [inaudible] nato reflexion members met with
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the secretary-general back in august and their ideas and contribution to make the -- sprocess 2030. and i think what -- [inaudible] with regard to ukraine, we are pretty sure that in order to be comprehensive nato reflexion process needs to take ukraine and georgia. that's why we stand together with georgian partners from georgian institute for strategic -- [inaudible] developed joint ukrainian-georgia began expert recommendations for -- [inaudible] nato reflexion process.
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we are happy that we can -- today as well. we believe that both ukraine and georgia fully resolve to find a more prominent place in future strategic -- in the process than in the previous strategic -- [inaudible] i think as far as i will be, the document contains two mentions of ukraine and georgia, but cooperation with russian federation -- [inaudible] i think that it is fundamental important that nato's new strategic document reflects the new realities in relation with ukraine and georgia and the new cchallenges to trapt trans-
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atlantic security -- [inaudible] the russian government and the changing dynamics in the area. let'sib not forget that when we are talking about ukraine and georgia, we are talking about countries who have double meaning, play double role for the alliance. ..
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both countries have, not only consumers but also contributors to the euro atlantic security by taking posture that alliance and operations ukraine, for example is contributed to all missions. secondly, ukraine and georgia are two of the three countries aspiring to become membership. membership in nato is not [inaudible] for ukraine integration for the priority
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which is supported at the level of police economy and importantly at the level of society in direct result of foreign aggression, by the way. i would like to underline her here -- change of presidents in the course of nation integration has been challenged foreign wide. when we talk about nation membership are not suggesting some extraordinary but as you know, the nation of bucharest -- the second correlation is membership action plan which we
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consider most ukraine and georgia as our next political steps in our european integration. membership in bucharest declaration is mentioned as the next step for georgia and ukraine membership. as a result of reflection is nato will speak to its open-door policy and we expect applicatioi will not be selective but georgia and ukraine would be a critical roadmap to membership and among other things i think it is important to mention that this open-door policy will encourage georgia to improve their democratic practices and form agenda because what ukraine and georgia remains to be an
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important advantage and drive ukraine and georgia as policy makers. it helps keep politicians and helps them transform our country's institution, both political and militarily and france needs to nato's interest c support their informed efforts. by doing so nato will expand the community of like-minded stable and predictable democracy. it is nato's interest as well. we also expect ukraine and georgia [inaudible] the black
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sea region. our strategic location makes both ukraine and georgia indispensable to an arrangement in the region. einitially -- from our point of view they can start with the participation of georgia and ukraine. g they should pay attention to being over present integrationce [inaudible] last but not least, in our view nato should identify russia as the main long-term threat to security and put an
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equal emphasis on audit georgia and ukraine can begin with the long experience of dealing with russians and identify and form and respond to the threat faced by the alliance and low intensity conflicts in which russia has been involved for which russia has been we should remember that russia at the moment in [inaudible] foreign conflict should be another focus of nato membership. russian occupied tour tory are convenience place to undermine international law which involves smuggling, which involves arms
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trafficking. i think i will stop here and let men want to elaborate more on our recommendation. >> thank you very much, alyona getmanchuk. this was a good kickoff and i appreciate, not only as a security rule but the security provider and it's an important point. going backy that the georgian point of vieww i hear the others agreed to better consider the role of countries like georgia and ukraine in the nato process. alyona getmanchuk with some points about this so what would be your recommendation from georgian perspective? thank you very much. >> first of all, thanks a lot to the organizers and to our partners for producing this report. it is great. i actually do see a huge value in hearing the voices because if
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you look at how the realities on the ground and the dynamics that are changing the value will be increasing in the years to come. there's a collective defense is such will be we have to have a holistic view about the collective defense so the countries that have been in close operation in partnership now and seen the evolution of the partnership for 30 years and would been a reliable partners throughout this time in a neighborhood which sees the underproductive old environment have been stably democratic and maybe not consolidated of course having flaws but are still trying to keep ourselves on track of being democratic and i think that's extremely important. part of this as you have mentioned and alyona getmanchuk mentioned that we've contributed to international security and we
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have small and georgia small and ukraine is bigger than us but we were trying to punch above our weight or in spite of it and in spite of having these internal problems of our own i think that georgia and ukraine have made it very serious case about being the contributor but also credible at this time. i think that i want to take a bigger picture view of why i think that. it's this window of opportunity for both sides. the region has seen a very dramatic change of the dynamic in the recent weeks, i would say for about a month and we have a very different status quo right now. many see this as not only a perception but also on an effective level as the weakness of the question or seeing it as being pushed out or cut out from
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a region which traditionally has always been present but nowadays the status quote is something else and considering that and considering the georgia ukraine remains pro-western for quite some time and i think for nato and the ones coming up in the conquest should think about what will be the value of this country and different dimensions but i will try to explain what those dimensions are and talk about the strategic dimensions, military ones and also value -based dimension which i think will be something we have to think about provided that there will be i a rethinking in washington probably with the new administration comes in and some of the points that will be made already are pretty interesting and away way because this will be a new thinking rising in the region as well. with that in mind i would like to make a few cases now. this is also part of our report but just been so synced.
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i think young democracies like georgia and ukraine definitely deserve to have a better understanding to have a better i would say traction because they are the ones who have proven to continue the democratic trends in the region and others are looking up and lete it be belas many in the people thinking that everything is deadlocked in oure region as well but then there was a very interesting development in armenia and everyone is thinking that will not happen but most of the time is happening because they have a moral example being president in the vicinity or region so if you have democracies like georgia and ukraine and given the chance so open-door policy and i would
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like to agree with alyona with the open-door policy should not be the case but we are building this case there should come a very clear political message paid we do have a clear political message for quite some time but those messages should effect by more practical means. no one in theou region has a problem with the practical side of ourit operations with nato. it is been very, very much fine. we are enhanced opportunity partners and good interrupters and initiatives as we have for quite some time but when it comes to the political side there still understanding that that lags behind and that is also opportunity for nato because open-door policies, as acyou rightly mentioned also gis relevance to nato because nato has to find itself to be relevant and i think that we see
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much more than just military consideration but also gives the power of the [inaudible] sitting for some very but when it comes to strategiche considerations ad they are making some things are not indispensablele we are trant routes and hubs in one way or another we also help if you or others from the russian cloud and whether it be the energy carriers or cargo which goes in that it be lands or maritime and it was important. in ther. years to come we will e that other players and right now it is been more cautious but
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definitely having plans to get more bri and begin about various projects and it does seem to be slow for some reasons but we can talk about that as well and there is going to be a turkey connection which, of course, is an date number of nato but increasingly independent that's a new factor which all of us have to be thinking about and georgia is a partner in his continuing for quite some time and we are perfect relations and then we have russia. russia will always have so-called quotation marks an understanding of where they are, why they are in the region so considering all of this the strategic's inclusion of georgia and ukraine and a new wave of political expansion there is
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greater value to nato as well because the original states and everyone recognizes in the previous that the eastern flank needs to be reinforced and everyone understands that. >> let me ask you to round up here because -- >> just two more minutes. one minute. >> thirty seconds. >> okay. thirty seconds for georgia and ukraine are indispensable when it comes to the plan southeast of the line and that's an extreme important. there are different ways and i can talk later about initiatives we can be coming up there. >> we will get back to some of your points.>> we lost interest in the debate so let's, you know, time for everyone to intervene.
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alyona, thank you for joining us and i know that you presented some of your conclusions today with nato leadership so we would love to hear your insight there but let me also ask you this question if i may. almost ten years ago nato also had a group of experts which was then chaired by madeleine albright and their job was to gadvise on nato 2020. i remember the big debate back then was whether nato should be in alliance or whether it is job was only to defend article five territory and back in 2010 answer was clear that it was article five territory. now, do think the debate today is different because if nato is to strengthen its partnerships it needs to be n outsourced looking?
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>> i'm sorry, i will answer your question and be quick. i'm sure the debate goes on shirley but i owe you one point of explanation. yes today we wer able, several minutes ago, we were able to finally read the report to nato secretary of trade general and fortunately for our today's meeting we aretill obliged to ep silent until orbliged by nato foreign ministers to silence their debate so that will happen december 1 and then our report is toe public so
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please maintain some patients that yes i think i am so muchi intertwid in the affairs o georgia and ukraine and particular those countries to nato that my remarks might be interesting to all of you. i still remember in my visitnt o ukraine it was august 2006 and standing togetr would then foreig minister boris [inaudible] in front of panel of journalists we were debating ukraine's eventual accession to
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international organizations lik the eu and there were som remarks about nato on amongst others as well. i would say that the spirit about nato was rather, not ambivalent but rather negative and everybody was afraid of aeaking openly about nato although i know that the will was there at that time. shory the last six years and two ukraine fighting for territory integrity made a change within public perception also engagement of ukraine in many between with new accession and ukraine finds that framework agreement with the eu as well
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and i in my proven capacity as chair i met both ukraine and georgia soldiers in many nations over dwelt so truly i can prove with my own eyes that both countries are the providers of security for all eu member states and nato allies. this is true. this is true. those are both countries are extreme important and the thing wi georgiart i still remember talking to a number of representatives of nato allies who use to confirm that populations are most probably
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the most pro- nato in the world and now we think nato we tend to complain about public support necessary to expand public diplomacy programs to ensure and to convince our popular respective populations about value, benefits and contribution of nato to world security. while in georgia, it is evident that the major part of society things known o it is now very positive in both countries and i still rember another event before bucharest i was at that
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time the head of the late president [inaudible] chancellery and was sent by him to consult with some of [inaudible] an in particular those who were about both countries obtaining maps at that time but unfortunately i participatedn bucharest, of course, as well so i remember the debates and all engagements and just before my eyes those discussions were at that time and yes, it was a promise in bucharest and i think that both
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countries wil become nato members and later on i remember responses and nato parliamentary assembly i think it was [inaudible] replied. clearly that yes, this promise ends. we have to repeat witness all those things and we hope nato has an open door policy is acknowledged by all of them and we are able to despite tensions
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and sometimes very difficult debates we remain united and that is alt contemporary messagi think about nato and we have been the most successful ally and we want to exist and ensure georgia and ukraine are in my private opinion i'm entitled to say now are very important factors to keep this position of nato. >> i thank you for your encouraging words and it's important that personalities like yours express these opinionspe and it's most useful. let me turn to our last but not least [inaudible] so we were
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informed that the deputy prime minister is upheld the meeting butth you are deeply involved in policymaking and agenda setting. thank you for joining us. i just wanted to perhaps poke your brain with a small question here. we've just been hearing from all our speakers that look, ukraine and georgia we are security providers as well as the benefits from the potential memberships and my question to you is that membership is not that easy based on quantitative and a political decision and from your perspective do we deal with this need for political decision. >> thank you. first of all let me put our
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apologies for not having today with we were really looking forward to that event but unfortunately due to situations she had to be in an important meeting and i'm very sorry for this but i'm very grateful to all of you for the experts and for the general martian fund and the center for organizing this event especially grateful, er to provide their opinion as a recommendation very solid analysis of ukraine and georgia contributions to the atlantic security and their role in europe security architecture. it is very important for us and for the governmentnt and i hope the reflection group will take
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into account their recommendation. i know that ukrainian center of defense submitted their recommendations of ukraine so we are allowed to have such strong involvement of experts and as for your questions yesterday we had a very good discussion organized by the center and the talks about nato and enhanced opportunity program and how ukraine's can better protect the and ended of this program one of them foreign partners they said we should talk not only about militaryy and comparability but political ones so to make our societies and make ukraine politically the
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same as the nato members. i think when we will have common understanding that ukraine also underwent the important political reforms that ukraine achieves with the rule of law and then there will be no station around the question of membership so it is a matter of time and we should work on our own task so and i would like to make a few points, if i may, about ukraine vision from the government and about which the future are all in your atlantic
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security and reflection. >> sure, good that you are here. >> yes, we are on the same page with the experts so we were close to those who presented but i would like to stress to your point first of all that ukraine participation is a good demonstration of support with authority with a crane and it also showedit that ukraine is important for developing and we should always keep this in mind. ukraine if the part of security and so it's logic that we take part in this center that you brought us.
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we very appreciate the trust and confidence in us. we expect that nato the strong commitment to open door policy and [inaudible] i'm very sorry but i'm sorry can we take a short break? the prime minister will join us. >> absolutely. as a matter fact why you are securing the participation of the deputy prime minister we will get to questions and we have some comments here on what was said. let me perhaps think some of the observation of reviewers some viewers are referring to the role that russia plays in this whole equation and we have a retired u.s. investor who says that president george bush back
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then pledged to president georgia the child that it would come to the russian border and is there any education that this policy has changed with one question we got. we also have viewers who say that perhaps we went to fast in the european union and nato with integration to the east and not understanding moscow seriously so these are two comments we receivedea and i just want to ak our panel your opinion on this. obviously nato has relationships with ukraine andith georgia should we consider a all what russia means for this? alyona, perhaps you first. >> thank you, just a brief coent on a question on gorbachev and he w very
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popular and actually gorbachev hielf said in 2014 i believe thathere was more to pledge from nato member states so there is nothing to discuss here actually and if i remember they practice this degree in nato forces [inaudible] but there was no any pledge and [inaudible] i
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think this narrative is very popular. >> ambassador i see them reacting saying gorbachev himself denies. >> yeah, that's wt i said. in 2014 there was interviewed by a - i remember but the rest of the media said there was n such pledge and on rsia our position is russia should not have integration to nato and y know, some nato members say that's a concern and they don't want t make any moves and w
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talked to similar discussions. for example, you are in lk when ukraine had opportunity partners andhen there wer concerns and some of the member said why do we want to grant ukraine and explain that the region is good for russia but ukraine was granted this status a couple of months ago, four months ago and actually because wepplied for assistance we needed that and why it's important for ukraine and really we needed that step forward and sometimes we h the feeling that our it's like a stationy
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bike. we set the distance and we are invested in a lot of power and we are not ming forward. you know? that is why this eop was really importan and i think now we have to focus all our energy and our [inaudible] in ord to get method of action a plan both for ukraine and georgia, especially for georgiaecause our position here in my position and i know many ukrainianshare this position that george's wlth so they made a lot of progrs, really a lot of progress in terms of tir military forces
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an military institutions so y yes, russia should not have [inaudible] >> i appreciat that that t there are concerns that russia would an nothingappened so let me because for those of you member states thatre concernedco from your experience at least in georgia, how do we deal with those member states that have concerns with no grounds apparently? >> just to continue with the question which was posted before because it is related but first and foremost, i nato is a defensive alliance. i have to repeat that. one wayr the other that have never been under question marks. strategically i don't see that being a legitimate because they don't seek out the outcome which
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will be beneficial for all but they have their own worldview and want everyone else to confer with that. also, i agree about the third-party and i think that's important. that principleis, if that principle i think will be undermining many important pillars of why nato exists in white the state is excited to when it comes to -- >> sorry to intervene but i join from the car and she is quite a limited amount of time so thank you for joining us. please enjoy your car ride it's really wonderful that you are with us for this amount of time. we have very simple questions for you, deputy prime minister. as ukraine's nato integration and what are the priorities on this track?
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>> thank you, so much. i'm so really sorry that i did not manage to join earlier but we had a discussion with the president and other staff so i decided that i would be late but still would deliver on the resultsld we are speaking so ths expression is the easy one because things are very well on track and ukraine got the eob stack shows within nato and we may be analysis of the roadmap of our participation in the influence of that is about but also we are very much into high-level politicalialogue with capitals and with things likeia as ukrainian military forces having been extremely diverse and developing new strategies adopted of legislation expanded for adoption and we are ready to
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talk about context first of all we're talking about the role of ukraine generallyly as the couny of region and we think that we are not -- overall surity issues and now we have the discussion on the reflection process and this is particularly not about [inaudible] it was so the leadership. [audio difficulties] >> i think we have a slight connection problem but let's give it one second maybe it will come back.
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>> in the meantime may be if the deputy prime mister comes back we will turn to her. >> in terms of nato -- [audio difficulties] >> welcome back. >> good. just to cut a long story short. [audio difficulties]
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on the legislation and security and defense sector basically ukraine has something and it is well on track and on top party from the president and myself for witnessing this because i'm in charge of the deputy prime minister in charge for integration and i tear the commission coordinating all the issues and we are here to speed the processes up and i think it is happening. >> deputy prime minister britt thank you for those are marks. i think it will just have you enjoy your car ride for now but we are most rifle you took the time to join for those remarks and i think your message was
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indeed well received. thank you very much and we wish you a very pleasant evening. let me get back to you. the deputy premise are here says look, ukraine is on track and we are organizing and previously we also heard that all these achievements have not triggered these much reaction that we from russia so how do we now go further to from eop to member so what should be the plan here? >> i think thehe most importants the political will and understanding for the importance of both countries, georgia and ukraine and our parers and in
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particular with quite complicated international environment and i thinkhat why we acknowledge those countries being on the truck and is ao an incentive for both government and respective societies to contin efforts of reforms and that is extremely to overcome and tensions and to have suprt to try to oveome divions so the reflection process is dedicated at the very beginning during the experts duration to enhancing political roles of
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nato so i think that those issues have to also to b taken into account. i think both eund nato are strengthening cause we maintained the pcess of corporations between both organizations, georgia and ukraine are important, extmely important in defense of the eu and associated countri with strong voices to make special experts to bring them even closer and in particular it is quite loud in my region, central and eastern europe and within nato i shared with you
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[inaudible] that we have geopolical, i would say, changes and we have to take this into account and bri countries stable in our neighborhoods althgh young democrats but not historically but in terms of reforms we [inaudible] in russia, yes that i true, absolutely. you tend to repeat that third countryy should not have the veo righ to both un and nato expansion so badly and to russi numerous times and it was russia's choice to pursue rather
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aggressive policy and we simply ve to take this into account maintaining, of course, channels of communication with the kremlin as well you. >>thank you. let me get back to you and my apologies to cut you short a few minus ago. mentioned the need for political will and we need t move forward so there is a question that i want to transfer to you and asking what cap geora and ukraine t burst away at the westin pilot that we need to rectify any memberships so how can we chae the views? according to your opinion >> well, first of all i think we have to continue being reliable and extremely iortant and i will explain what i mean b being reliable.
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we have to be a reliable democracy and i think that the vae of being a young democracy whh continues to be successfu it has institutions because we ve to show that we are a functional state that is paramount. we have to be able to graduate fr any dysfunctionality associat with this part of the region. that has to continue. we have toe reform minded and i'm pretty sure that when the time comes if w continue to on that trend there will be a window of opportunity. that might b of some bigger change of picture that we have en talking about or might be different appeance but the other thing is i tnk the government here in georgia and also in kiev have to understand
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that they also haveo. >> gehello? >> we hear you again but we hear you. thank you very mh. >> sorry. we have to continue to be knocking on the door. it is extremely important to continue to knock on the door. a ll which is uninterrupted that we want t be nato members we have to continue to be part of the internaonal institutions and we have t continue to be contributing to any mission which we thi that our participation will add value to and i think there is also a significant importance to the politician and then we have to be explaining to into the major
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of what we mean by our values and how that will be coming forward. i'm pretty sure that this skepticism with any type of enlargement that we haven't seen and let it be with you or nato and i talked to a lot of peopl in the baltic countries and they were tellinge stories that they don't want or no one even wanted to hear their argument in the beginning that i was a nonstarter in the beginning so i do believe that if we contie and if he can continue doing our job of being reform minded and continue with democracy the will be the time when there is simply not going to be aot of oppounities to refuse to come up with no answer but of course there are considerations that i'veeen talking about and i
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think now the value we've also seen in whe we are and how we have behaved so far. >> thank you. alyona, let me get back to you as well. we hav a question which i would like to transfer who is a fellow in italy and she is basically asking whether you see future corporations between nato and the eu, european ptnership initiatives in thereas we are accepting today and she's also arguing that her reforms in ukraine and other countries may be regressing andhether this regression of reforms will impact any possibility for nato membership.
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>> on the reforms i tnk we have seen some signs and in some directions and but pleaseo not forget that it is the one the country which is the [inaudible] which is demracy while being in the raging a w and only a war inurope which is the russian war in ukraine now and not a conflict unfortunately but it is still like a war and it is
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why we are even in the terms of reform we have a lot of and politicians or political forces supported by russia and who are promoting [inaudible] in ukraine and i would suggest carefully to assessed all of those and because some of the processes and finds show up that they are elements of warfare against ukraine and there is also weakness against ukraine and
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[inaudible] what i would like to say is it's complicated and it's not like black-and-white, you know but there are some signs but especially it's complicated and saying that ukraine is moving forward and that's why it's important to have this euro atlantic tunnel to see that membership effective and to empower by this membership rsperspective our political mind politicians and opinion leaders. >> thank you very much.
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unfortunately we are nearing the end of this event so for us i would like to turn and to the deputy prime minister who has rejoined us for may be final comments. before we close you have put both in the european union and are now part of the nato inflection process as well so do you see any for the eu nato corporations to strengthen the resilience of countries like georgia and ukraine? >> i think thathi both countries or both organizations are very much on the corporation with georgia and ukraine and those very strong support for both countries and i just wanted very briefly to commend the question
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or remark about reforms in both countrieses and we have to remember how difficult it was to implement reforms after changes in 1989 and in other countries slightly later later in peaceful times and same happened to western alliance and to western eu member states after crisis in 2008 and now trying to imagine implementing very harsh and very challenging reforms in the same
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time defending territorial integrity in case of ukraine, very open conflict but we have to remember in georgia as well and the absorption of georgia's goals on a daily basis so we have to take this into account and it's extremely difficult to maintain public support and for harsher forms and it is our role to stand by them to separate them and yes, i can imagine corporations and actuality and both within the eu and nato on
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those issues thank you. >> thank you for this final words. thanks for rejoining us in the whole event has been confirming that georgia not just consumers but you're making great steps forward through nato integration but they may need convincing that membership is a good thing for the alliance and so we have viewers all of europe and north america what would be your final message to her viewers, deputy prime minister, regarding. >> thank you. at least a couple of my remarks about the divisionn of ukraine from the contributors and indeed
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i think this is the core of the positive agenda in bringing your atlantic and basically it was a very important question and remarks and you were asking about where those things are well on track and let's recollect in her memory the years when the president and the parliament were reelected and we expected new faces for a fresh still now were speaking about the speed and quality of reforms expecting for ukrainian politicians to smile nnanimously and say things are going well on track and nothing is happening and the reality is different and of course a huge informational space and you may not always see the huge reforms
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and transformations which are taking place in the banking reform and the president has adopted the security strategy where your integration and a space of nato standards is the core principle of the strategy and we've adopted the defense procurement about to adopt the law on their form of security service so these are the things like on notice basically even where this is something positive which is not just very good and nice -- >> we leave the last couple minutes of this discussion but you can watch all our programs on a website, c-span .g. u.s. senate is about to gavel in so work on the nominatio of taylor mcneil to be a u.s. district court judge for southern mississippi. a pcedural vote scheduled for 5:30 p.m.astern time. you can also see work on the
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decision to extend federal funding past the december 11 deadline to avoid a government shutdown. your watching live senate coverage here on c-span2. the president pro tempore: the senate will come to order. the chaplain, dr. bay black, will open the senate with prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. almighty god, who in your wisdom has so ordered our earthly lives that we must


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