something of a rebellion in the house speaker of commons with the consensus was that chamberlain, the prime minister was not up to the challenge of dealing with hitler in germany. at that same day it was the phony war ceased to become a phony war became a hot shooting o when hitler invaded the low countries. here is a situation where churchill it's the greatest day of his life. one of the darkest days in the history of the world. this did not daunt churchill. churchill thoughthis was simply added spice to the challenge. the idea of being in charge of this great empire at such a dire time thrilled him. : : :

>> for today, is going to b a very lively conversation. i'm going to run through introductions rst. each of our panelists. and then we will hear fromhem. an inch or, 15 minute intervals and there will be 15 mutes for our viewers to ask any questions you may have of them. th first panelist is doctor thomas burton, the professor of english at east tennessee state university of tennessee paredes produced three documentaries on rtain handling, and author of handlingelievers. the splendid in the spirit, such a good story. in each man, memoirs of roundly exporting his most recent book, voices worth listening . three

women of appalachia is out now. please join me in welcoming doctor thoma thomas burton. in the next person that i would like to introduce is sara sarah smarsh, a journalist recorded for the new york times, the guardian and any other publications. her first book heartland, mmr working hard being broke in the richest country on earth which is very relatable title of me tell you. i was a finalist for the national book award in 2018 research fellow at harvard universities center on media politics and public policy, sarah is a frequent speaker and commentator on economic and equalities. in her most recent book, she'd come by natural, dolly parton in

the lumen of this or song, is now from simon & schuster. the last person that i would like to introduce is wayne winkler. he is a descendent from an cook county, tennessee. very near where i am from. and past president of the heritage association. director of the public working radio station and lives in johnson city, tennessee. his most recent book, beyond the sunset did the outdoor, 1969 - 1976 is out now. please join me in welcoming all of our panelists liberally first of, we wl hear from docr thomas burton. thomas: thank you very muc it is a pleasure for me to be

part of the festival this year. southern festival of books in naville. and the opportunity to introduce you to this book, voice versu we pleasant. three women of appalachiand published by the university of tennessee press. this book h the title suggests, is a presentation of the liv of three women of appalachia two were white women and one was black. one important featu ofhis book is that the lives are told by the women themselves and in theigrown undertone voices. multiple entities tha i personally made with them. in these interews are bnded and crafted from their free

speech to form a ufied and progressive monologues. the monologues however, attempt to retain the integrity of each peon's spee10 voice. they canlso as much as possible, to re-create the experien of them personally talking like y're listening to these people. uncertainty tells are altered. that's in accordance to the wishes. so that they remain anonymous. in a way, these women are presented somewha like characters in the play. characters who speak directly to their audience and in their own

language and without interruption. without details, analytical interpretation. anna political and scholarly inrpretation of people or regions, can certainlye insightful and helpful. yet on the other hand, they can overstate a single critical or restctive best other perspectives. a literary case in point, ishe statement by the remkable, and actor and director at the laence olivier, at the beginning of the film. he says ts is the tragedy of a ma who could not make up his

mind. the stement does provide dramatic focus but is nevertless, very restrictive commentary of one of the worlds most dramatic persons. hamlet is of course, a great deal morehan a man who could not make up his mind. in the same point of overemphasis and restrictions is a relative t critil analyses of appalachians and of appalachia. however, to repeat, this book instead of being a ctical analysis is a presentation of the lives of these or the voices of these women themselves. any the leader readers, have te opportunity to respond to them

in your own emotionalnd intellectual insights. and as the title suggests, the voices of these women are certainly worth to listening to afraid furthermore,heir voices are worth listening for several reons. and for no other reason, there worth listening to becse they are the voices of really intesting and very complex human bngs. whose lives have been lived off the beaten path. they are people that you don't meet every day or if he did meet them you probably could not even guess the roads they have traveled. for me personally, i heard the

stories of the lives of these three women, i was really blo away. i can hardly believe what i was hearing. they were true nonheless and they were forthright and deeply persal revelations of real people. real human beings. they were struggling with amazing endurance against tremendous odds. and cerinly, some of those odds are the own making. some of them however, are odds over which the bad little or no control. but unfortunately for them, in the languagef shakespeare, when sorrows come, they, not singly but in antagonists

the meanest for you just some of the sea of troubles ty collectively confront. for example various criminals and circumstances which include messiah, insult, assault and battery and theft, rape, attempted murder, drug addictions and imprisonment. domestic problems. parental dysfunction, childhood pregnancies, loss of child stody, and multiple dysfunctional intime relationships including physical and mental spousal abuse. social problems, childhood bullyi and racial discrimination and gender

discrimination. economicnstability, eher starting empower 50 or endin in poverty. homelessness joblessness, and insufficient fancial support the family and friends in our government. beside all of these sngs and arrows, they have to bear arms peonal as well. low self-esteem, irresponbility, nativity, zarre sexual involvements. despondency, and despa, leading even tottempted suicide. its almost incredible the

roots and horns these women there. and would create for energy. these are women are not unique in their struggles in fact they are in part rep. of whole category women aoss appalachia. the whole stor of women who are like them, struggled greatly and rise off the beaten path. and as a cover the design of this book is an image, they exist across appalachia like a scene in the mountain path. in these wom, they are in part

rep., but they are not simply stereotypes. ne of hillbillies, non- cold myers daughters, none of unemployed workers on welfare. they are not simply stereotypes of any group southern appalachians stereotypes of any sector and i woulde quick to add that any attempt to definitively label the types were to define the incence of any sector of appalachia, is various complexes they both are, is a fool' game.

and inarticular to book, anyone attemptin to find the essence of these wom be subjec to be approved by each woman in the sentiment of haml hamlet. how unworthy that you make of me, you would pluck out the heart of my mystery. even though these women are not simply stereotypes of appalachns, there are part of a diversity of appalachia. and understand appalachia, one needs t listen to the diverse individuals about flasher. and there's much music, much

excellent voice from the peoe from appalachia and certainly, voices of theomen in this book i would like now the opportunity to readn abstract from the first novel out. which is entitle some would call her a goo old girl. i am not perfect, no one is perfect. everyone mes mistakes. and i did a lot of things. there were times will i was forced by my husband toave relationships wit women along with him. and all that sort of thing. sometimes we would bring home men. it was for him, not me.

it's not fun when you're forced to do it. i would go into the bathroom and cry. no one would believe the times i have ranut of the room just lling my eyes out. i hated it. it was awful. i hated doing it because of diseases that stuff out there. i just think the lord that i never got anying. that scared me to death. i kind of blocked out that part. i would get so drunk that i would have to go get so drunk. mean, plastered. to do that. so a lot of times i don't rememb what happened very well. bu i was going to pretend. he just threatened me. if you don't do this, you going to regret it whenou get home. it just hurts to see someone

that you trulyove make love with someone else. why would they want to do that. if the truly crappy british be having a marriage, but i was ry sad. there were lots of things, there were just literally almost disgusting to discuss were talk out some of the things. it turneder stomach. and he forced me to do other weird things. like you would hold me down and take these blas and cut hielf and cut myself. and then we would have to eat each other's blood. yes, is crazy. and if i evenrought the thought of leaving him at that point, he threatened to kill himself. it was horrible. when you care and love somebody,

you just don't like doinghat stuff. attorney mica s. i don think it was fun and games. that was what he wanted. it was a driver whatever and that's what he enjoys doing. later on he came to find out at when he was traveling on the road, and i was sending him money to survive, because he said they were making enough money. actually, he was taking the money that i was sending him for prostitutes, drugs or whatever. i was working twoobs. when you are in an abusive relationship, some people think u can just walk out of it. bu you cnot.

you see the tv shows andhey say, fear being abused or neglected, call this number. we will help you. it is just not that simple. espeally if you love that person. if you care for that person. and you want to be there and help the it is really hard to walk away from somebody. it is also hard to explain. i'm a caring person. or i try to care. and you don't wanto do anything to hurt a person. the person you care about. even though they a hurting you. even if you givehem leeway to straightenp and they won't . his heart. that was the situation during the open marriage for . mh the rest of our being together. so for most of the marriage, but

all of thattuff wasn't constant. it was just every once in a while. although i would have to say no a lot. and then he would get really mad. i just couldn't handle it. i'm just not that kind of person. thank you. sarah: thank you so much doctor burton. i really enjoyed hearing from you. up next, we have sarah srsh and she's going to be shari some of her work. sarah: hi everyone. i am so happyo be joinedhe seven book festival. i wish we we all in person. on this particular panel, in case anybody iscratching their heads about what a journalist from kansas is joining with this, i've written a book about one of the most famous voices of

appalachia being dolly parton. i get that quickly for someone toay that in case anybody jamie, and read heartland. he came out a couple of years ago. as head of the highbred and memoir and social critiquen a bit of u.s. history on social economic class. you might remember my grandmother betty is sort of the start of the book. an inner house right now is working class neighborhood in wichita. and right next door, good kans homeowners are reroofing their own house this year. and no gun is going off nearly appropriate for my presentation. because attend right about the working class of this country. my new book she com by at natural but n entered dolly parton. it's given me from simon &

schuster, i wanted to mtion them. it comes out official and tuesday. and i am excited to tell you a little about it. my first book heartland, thats in any wayshile the integration of the work tha i have been doing is a joualist for a long time with my personal vaage someone grew up on a small wheat farm. in southern kansas. a book about dolly parton, you might pse and ask why. and why withhe scene follow-up. so i think the most important way that i can introduce the text he was to give you a little context as to w it exists. uncertaiy not a celebrity writer i don't follow popular culture so to speak. i do write about class. and sometimes all intersect with all of thespects of the

identity including race, gender and someone. and in 2016, you might remember i was an election year that has repercussions in this country. it is quiteontentious time. sort of this don of this very polarized political moment that we are experiencing. and every headline that i saw about the place i come from if you want to speak in general tes, my people. the rural white for folks basically. every headline was quite negave and quite weak to be about hates bigotry and aspect of that population and demographic certainly there. but i haven't a know someone is been very fornate in my life as first generation college student who went on to study in the ivy lgue and culture. i do intersect for some . rar

faces. any firsthand folks like that exist in every run of the class letter among white folks specifically. so those headlines but to me and personally i guess. and i wrote some media criticism to vets. as onef the few folks with that particular when within national media. now that same year, dolly parton had no element for the first time in any years. i was putting on these huge arena shows for the first time in a very long time. and i could see how the energy collecting around that. well first of all i a of a sudden, i live in rural kansas today. is that most blessed my life in kansas. but most my industr center in new york. i see them on twitter like tweeting about dolly parton. i'm like, y know about dolly

parton. i knew she was a hug icon. i didn't understand the extent to i don't think any of the state until recent years, the extent to achieves not jus a creative genius and an in of popular culture but also an incredib unifying figure in a very rare and notable way. at a time of such as today. and i'mntrigued by this. then i started to tnk and it occurred to me, you know what. that role specifically rural white for place that i come from, there are all these headlines about the worst of it . and dolly parton represents the best of it. so theyot me thinking, also a lot about that you're about gender and hillary clinton is a democratic presintial candidate as well. and there was a lot of mogyny in the air.

regardless of your politics. i thank you so an objective set. itccurred to me that this is right before like the dawn of the youtube mement. and i thought there was something about feminism right now that i feel like no one has articulated at least in a mainstream way. outside of academia. that is, what i would call working-class feminism. in this what i was raisedn. that was when i was raised by my mean by that is it is not theory. his nonexclusive in his language. might not be even articulated or expressed that it is ratr lived organically. but it occurred to me, country music written by women that i was raised on was a form of the fenist text of my life if you

will. that i would be bringing into the year 2016 and all of the ways that year was offending me was that it's intersections of ass and gender. i s working on heartland at the te. my memoir that came out a couple of years later, so i've been bu. but great magazine called no depression, country music fans at their might followt. longtimeublication about its music, the new fellowship to allow writer to write "in depth" about the way in which the genrn society and culture in a broader way. i found a b, i want to write about h dalit parton writes about feminism. they got the gig. so i was writing what became this book. in docket that ment, it was a print only in that magazine as

elitist. so now we find ourselves in another election year. in anoth moment and no less a divisive moment. and certainly no less problematic moment in terms of class and gender. happily now,he tt is known before. i'm going to redo just a smidge from it. and i want to add by the way, weome them a place here that i was not raise like dolly parton super fan. she was just sort of this person in the 80s and for anydy in that decade, she was just sort of woven into the fabric of popular culture prayed he would see her on the top show, music was on the radio. she was dying and blockbuster movies. if i took up of attempting to do justice for her life and her in this book, start in the first hollywood rule nine - five.

year than i was bn in 1980. so in some ws ts book is really gesture of gratitudeo women of her generation. no least of them being my grandmother betty i menoned just a few minutes ago. in a roundabout her struges and heartland. and i'veort of woven into this book a bit of a memoir. but i wanted to provide context as to why i get this in a particular way. that context is everything to do with my grandma raised me and he was born just like five mths apart from dolly parton. in kind of put thi in the book that in some ways she and won like her are the little dolly parton's by which i mean, the stories she felt her career and are very much about hard knocks and specifically lives of

women. dolly partoneft her family in east tennessee at about eight and at age 18. she's been rich and famous a lot nger than she was and that area. she had continued to tell the stories of the sort of women that raise me and i believe we all have a debt of gratitude and way that this movementerhaps hasn't afforded. ... ... excels at the latter.

you won't get very far is a poor woman without believing you are equal to men. the result of that belief is unlikely to be a leaning in, possib sound advice to middle and upper-cla women seeking to cla the spoils enjoyed by men and their offices at home. poor woman's a better solution is often tourn around and walk away in a hopelessly patriarchal situate that she cannot possibly mend with h limited cultural capital. and in my book i had as evidence along those lines a story of dolly parton's quite brave departure from the porch or wagon or show when she was a youngelatively new star with a sort of fragile steak and popular culture in the early 70s. when gordon left it was 1964, a presidential election year that's a recurring the here. the interplay about dolly in

our political realities. the country was torn by political uprising and tragedy. young men o returning from vietnam and caskets. presidt john f. kennedy had been assassinated less than a year prior. in 1994 autobiography dolly parton recalled hearing about candies deaths over her yfriend's car radio while on her way to perform on a radio show. i had loved jn kennedy in one idealist recognizes a nether and loves and for that place within himself that they share she wrote. i did not know a lot about politicsut i knew a lot of things were wrong and unjust and that kennedy wanted to change them. her boyfriend however responded to the announcement by referring to kennedy with a racist, relating to his stances on people of color. sheromptly dumped him. the women's liberation movement of the 60s and 70s had not yet reached a

fever pitch. he'd creat the status of women within oregon national organization on women with t strict conformist gender role still tracked females as wives, mothers and second-class citizens. whenarton stepped off the bus in nhville some of that movement foundatiol text are yet to be published. they likely would reach partner anyhow. the women were too busy feeding hungry mouths. some further isoted from discourse in a pre-internet place to read such literature. the reason i end up writing stuff like this by the way, is what i tell folks sometimes when i give talks. i speak to versions of english country and fancy. i think parton has quite intentionally stayed true to that voice regardless of what space she is moving there.

regardless of whether she is supposed to feel ashamed about it. and it's very strategic and intentional. and has worked out well for her of course. parton was living feminism thout reading it. leaving home as a woman per national aspirations no financial means demonstrated she went to a and thought she deservedt. meanwhile the place she pursued at life the recording could t have been a more harrowing gauntletor a women. even if arica had by then put a new small cracks in the ceiling that held women down squarely situate on the thickest glass. i will leave it to questions at the end. >> thank you so much. i wanted remind everybody sara is the autr.

she come by it national, dolly parton and women who led her song. already heard from doctor thomas burton. university press but as our final speaker we are going to feel from wayne winkler the outdoor drama 1969 to 1976. out now from mercer university press. as a little bit of a tidbit, wayne and i are distantly related. i am a descendent, were cousins. the data here because mike to thank you for having me at the southern festival of books.

people may be wondering who they are, they're not the most well group of people it's mixed race people who were first documented in the northeast tennessee southeast region. the beginning of the 19th century. in the 1990s has the internet became more widely accessible to ordinary people, they underwent kind of a resurrection the resurrection of a proud people for it i was to be able to work with doctor kennedy. i foresee doctor kennedy passed away about three weeks ago i wanted to dedicate this to him. he became well-known is the topic is what i wanted to

write about. is not the really well-known it was a brief run for this particular outdoor drama just from 1969 to 1976. it represented a lot. only part of that trying to make hancock county a more viable place to live. and i would like to read just a little bit of the second chapter which kind of sets up the situation pretty well. just to fix up the one i had is that too much? charles turner is the mayor's need build the county seed and tiny town between newman's ridge said the feature was the courthouse it was surrounded

by low roller men set both gossiped and watch a little traffic along main street for the other government building with the u.s. post office, the build a couple blocks east of the courthouse in hancock county jail, won her old two-story wooden structure, one block west and south of the courthouse. another elementary school and a high were also the town limits. taking office in 1960, turner have been trying to get the state or the federal government or somebody to improve the road to morristown. morristown was only 23 miles from stephenville. but the trip from steel to morristown was mostly along state highway 31. highway 31 ran between stephenville and maurice berg. maurice berg yet it turned right go west on u.s. 11w. and then at union station a left turn south on u.s. 25e into boris town. boris town is where the jobs were. those the people in hancock county worked at a job, that

is made a living by means other than farming. both jobs and more sounds working with the small factories, lumberyard or the other mostly blue-collar jobs to be found there. it had just over 20000 people and another 19000 or so living in the surrounding county. on the eta 74 linton stephenville, the relate thousand in hancock county prayer without boris town there be practically no work for the people of hancock county. the problem was the road highway 31 went over christian mountain which was technically a long ridge incorporating several sonnets. the people who drove highway 31 every day new every twist and turn of the road. and good weather there no problem negotiating the route day or night. but a half inch of snow change the situation considerably. count on at least three or four big snows in the winter.

in the mountain was high enough that snow stuck on the road at the top. even if it did not stick down below. if the road became icy or even slick from heavy rains, the mountain was a for bidding even the most experienced drivers. it could guarantee the last few moments of your life would be exciting indeed. because of clinch mountain state highway 31 employer's and more summer reluctant to hire people from stephenville or hancock county. they were good workers alright, good people. but the weather turned bad, even just a little bit bad most of those good people were not went to risk the drive to show up at work. we could waiting snow would keep them away from work for week or more depending on the state road crews got it clear enough to drive. it helped if you told a prospective employer that you got the job were planning to move to morristown. but it was not only jobs that drew people out of hancock county. living in more stamina you can shop for groceries at a real supermarket incentive were the dozen of tiny country stores it served hancock county.

you could go to a movie once in a while, a current movie not like the ones at the stephenville theater. you can take your wife to a nice restaurant and your kids could go to a better school, when they could pay for veteran teachers and give your kids a better chance of learning a trade or even going to college. in morristown you can make a better life for yourself and your family. charlie turner is well acquainted with the desire to move somewhere with more opportunity. years later hertel reported from up north my old high school graduation class left. i said i'll be darned if i'll do that i will run for mayor and see what i can do. when he's just starting out he taught in a one-room schoolhouse on newman's ridge. later he opened a drugstore, he is not a pharmacist like most about open a small town drugstore but he still did well put one bit of drugstore business was developing photographs pretty was a skilled photographer and had won several awards. eventually ran for mayor of speedwell. hancock county was on was totally republican but charlie

was a democrat and the only democrat and his family. still, he won the election, and the one after that, and the one after that. charlie stayed in steve bill in his own terms and made it work. but he knew how unusual his decision was. there is a saying among home former hancock county residents a lot of smart people come out of hancock canada smart they are the quicker they come out of there. most people are smarter more ambitious will get out sooner or later. the folks who left hancock county for morse were not gone really they were still connected. the one tillage and nearby referred to hancock county is over at home like if you're going over home this weekend? mama and daddy still live there the old family farm. brothers and sisters aunts and uncles cousins and old friends they were still over home. review could be there to visit in less than an hour most days. some of those who move to morristown were still very involved in life over home. some still tended the church where they'd gone to sunday

school and baptize. some are even involved in hancock county government. they weren't broken. when folks move to morristown they reduce the population and the tax base of the county made harder to provide services to the ones who remained. many people move further away than morristown. the whole colony of transplanted hancock county was in or near baltimore, gone away during world war ii by good paying jobs in shipyards and defense plants. even warren move north to indiana, ohio, and michigan taking factory jobs with union paychecks. making more money that was possible even a more sound for the still came home sometimes, most of them. maybe two or three times a year when the kids got a vacation from school. they load up the family car and head south down home. interstate 75, the hillbilly highway facility being built across kentucky in nearly every time these transplant of hancock county came home it was on a four-lane divided

road. transplants were different after the been up north for a while. for different attitudes breed summit stop going to church are going to different kind of church and the one they'd grown up in. they become more cosmopolitan of the folks at home sometimes filthy transplants look down on them a little bit. their kids had midwestern accents and they throw their country cousins with tales of life in the big city. as time went on kids get older and busier, those families made the trip back home less often pay pretty soon they would come back only for funerals. they were not part of the county anymore, they were gone. by 1969 hancock county had fewer people than it had in 1869. the population had peaked in 1940, census figures for that year showed 11231 souls living in the county. the 1960 census counts and was 7757, a population loss of almost 31% in 20 years. since 1960, at least a

thousand more had left the county. the birthrate could not keep up with a number of people leaving for better job opportunities elsewhere. as mayor charlie turner had helped attract new jobs to the county seats. the voters had almost unanimously approve the bond issue for an industrial park. senator albert help the county landed 98000-dollar grant from the federal economic development administration to further develop the property. that would bring as many as 13035 new jobs into the county. eventually, proving how we 31 was crucial. that renders a lifeline for hancock county. if the road were not so dangerous people could commute to work him for sound were made in hancock county. they're only four ways in and out of hancock county will five if you count state highway 66. highway 33 was the important one. none of these highways were as important as state highway 31. in tripe you might, charlie turner had not been able to

get that road improved. but now, now he could see a chance. if no one would build a row for people going out, maybe they would build a road for people coming in. like everyone else turner had his doubts about the idea of an outdoor drama, still this to from carson the college studied the economic situation and told county leaders their best chance of economic development was tourism read the best chance of devising tourism with an outdoor drama. outdoor dramas were popular and attracted tours, even to small town like boonville where they had worn in the west since 1952. as a third oldest outdoor drama and the nation. but boone was a college town help of appalachian state university had a direct highway to winched salem and i-40. trail with the big stone gap 45 miles from stephenville was the longest running outdoor drama and the common local virginia. big stone was just off u.s. 23

major highway that ran from jacksonville, florida to michigan. it was staged in cherokee north carolina on the indian reservation on the eastern edge of the great smoky mountain national park in the park drew millions of visitors each year. steve bill was not close to anything, no major highways are tourist attractions paternity of local leaders were planning on the outdoor drama to entice tours across the mountain into a town that liked any of the usual amenities for tours like restaurants and motels. they shared the green top in good food, their good food as a matter fact. but the exterior of the restaurant looked rough and the interior was not much better. the town motel that was just five little rooms over the beauty parlor on main street. up to now that had been plenty, not very many folks came to sneetches bill needing a motel room. but the tourist game the restaurants and motels might follow. that was the hope anyway. charlie turner and the other leaders in hancock county work counting on the subject of the

play to draw tours but the subject of the play had been so controversial. the topics people were talking about even the word bludgeon was not usually spoken in public. and note in the county wanted to be identified. everyone had been upset from that saturday evening post article came out they were hancock county's dirty little secret. times were changing though and people were starting to see them as in a different light for those articles by louise davis and the national tennessean had not been as negative. other more or less positive articles have been published in various newspapers and magazines. the new novel by jesse stuart daughter of the legend was very sympathetic. people were furious and as reverend connor put out of hancock county did not take advantage of that curiosity, some other place would it would reap the benefits. if they were the best shot of attracting tours the purple lips sneetches bill give it a

try even if hardly anyone in the county admitted to being one. thursday july 1969 don's, charlie turner had a lot of work to do. there's going to be a historic independence day weekend. for the first time tours were going to arrive in stephenville, tennessee. thank you very much. >> thank you so much wayne winkler. and as a reminder weight winkler is the author of beyond the sunset, the outdoor drama, out from mercer university press. alright, we have about eight minutes left to answer any questions that you all may have for our panelists. sov would like to, please join us in either the app or on our facebook live stream, or youtube comments. one of our southern festival

of books staff members will be monitoring for any questions that you may have. i guess i will start us off while we are waiting for people to join us, all of you spoke a little bit about, and i wrote this down from doctor burton. one of the women in his book said, it's really hard to walk away from a person. and i think that is kind of a conversation that we are having, especially in these rural places now about walking away from people or places or economic opportunities. infamously sir jd vance said in his book hillbilly elegy that these rural regions were experiencing brain drain. so could you talk a little bit about what your research for

your writing has uncovered about people moving away from these communities? >> go-ahead. >> i was going to say i actually, about a year ago wrote an opinion peace for the "new york times" the headline for which has included brain gain. i might be equipped to comment on this briefly. in terms of quantitative measures about which direction the population is flowing in that proverbial urban divide it has many more shapes than two. numbers are starting to show some of these communities that are patently referred to as a dying or dwindling are actually gaining some interesting ways. a lot of it has to do with racial demographics. places like western kansas

where there is a robust industrial meatpacking industry are seeing large increases specifically in hispanic and other immigrant population. but even apart from race, i have seen a sort of trend of a return if you will. wendell berry the great kentucky writer referred to these folks as home commerce. think that was turned by a kansan name s jackson at the land institute who is a friend of wendell's. this is something i feel out of a qualitative experience for those of us who live in rural areas, care about them are resisting the narrative there all ghost towns. i know people. i know people who could if they chose live in new york or other places. they are choosing to specifically return to rural spaces where they used to live. they are highly formally educated. i do think there's something shifting in our culture about

like what is and isn't cool. as far as what's tenable economically is another story involves getting broadband into those places and so on. it might not surprise you off you read my writing that i disagree with jd vance on most things. [laughter] >> i was going to address that situation. your question and away about moving out, it is appropriate to the area i was talking about for these women were from, central appalachia. they are a part of these central pockets of poverty. now one of the women is a black woman, her life began in povert poverty. she started out when she was

born, her mother is living in various places. and one of them was with a friend. and finally they got a place of their own and it was infested with rats. and she thought it was horrible and hated it. finally they got into the project, that was a good place for her because she had friends, clean house, clean room and so forth. and she -- instead of living out some place to find a better place, she started working as a very young person. she worked every summer for example when she was in high school then as senior high school she worked even from 3:00 o'clock at night until 11:00 o'clock and then went to school the next day and kept a 3.5 average.

she is kind of a success story. she goes ahead and works even though her boyfriend who has become her husband has become a drug addict for 14 years or so, she gets a job, she thanks she will go to a college, a business college, she got a degree in medical assistance ship. and worked there. then she went from there to go to the university. and got a university degree and became a nurse. then she is still working as a nurse. without leaving. the first woman i read from, she was a hard worker. she had problems of even transportation getting to work. the situation was not good for her. she couldn't keep a job because she couldn't get to it.

and she got her son to give her transportation and so forth. finally she did move out and went to virginia beach i believ believe. so i think it is a different situation in the circumstances of the women i was talking abou about. these women who are living these lives are very difficult out of the mainstream. but it's not within a poverty stricken place that they are trying to get away from. >> host: thank you very much doctor burton. we have about a minute left. so i would once again like to remind you guys that the link to purchase these books,

voices worth listening to, three women and appalachia, three women of appalachia, voices worth listening, she come by at natural dolly parton and the women who lived her song, thank you and be on sunset, the outdoor dramas, the links to purchase those are in our chat. and as a reminder please donate to humanities tennessee to allow this to remain a free event. thank you all for joining me. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> here's a look at some of the most notable books of 2020 according to the los angeles times. think additional citizens explores american citizenship through her own journey as a immigrant. technology reporter anna weiner has her experiences working for tech startups and uncanny valley.

in memorial drive poet natosha recalls her mother's murder and how she dealt with it. the los angeles times list of 2020 notable books is intonations a collection of esys by zadie smith o the early day of the covid-19 pandemic. and former barack obama reflect on his political career in presidency the first volume of his presidential memoir, a promised land. >> it is precisely because i could see both sides or all sides to a problem or an issue that i would then feel as if i was making a good dision. because i had seen it from differentngles. and this idea that overthinking problems was or is a wkness in politics, i think is indicative of a

culture in which w want to simplify and eliminate all gray aas. and just have our way and beat the other team as opposed to solving problems and figuring out how in fact we come together. >> most of these authors have appeared on book tv and you can find their programs in their entirety booktv.org. just type the author se in the search bar at the top of the page. >> book tvn prime time starts now. first george washington university shamus hughes, deputy directorf the program on extremism talks about the threat posed by american supporters of isis. and then from a rhesus texas book festival discussion o past pandemics and covid9 per coming up this evening is a two bgraphy the late senator ted kennedy.

kris per body discusses how she was denied reproductive choice i healthcare for her childr. an mit professor and tech investor explores the impact social media algorithms have on public discourse on ections, public health and more pdefined more schedule information and booktv.org. or check your program guide. now here's a look at home grow extremists. >> welcome everyone. i am karen greenberg iirect the center national security. welcome to today's event. on t book i'm going to show you, home grown, isis in america. but before we get started today want to mention some sad news. in the world at the center on national security my world frank mead who is a longtime friend, advocate f an advisor to the center passed away on november 1f this year. we are going to miss him. and so i wanted to