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tv   Campaign 2020 Covering the Presidential Campaign During a Pandemic  CSPAN  December 15, 2020 6:39am-7:53am EST

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>> e-mail to penalty think he will enjoy and frankly the first one is always my favorite. that's because i was a newspaper reporter political columnist for 25 years taking a job as secretary baker more than 16 years ago. the title of the first panel is a view from the campaign best ironic because there was no campaign best this year covid-19 prevented that. the panel includes the journalist to cover the 2020 election season including an award-winning journalist and new york times best-selling author covering national politics for nbc news.
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and the two of them are teaming up this year with an inside look at the 2020 election. a political reporter covering national state and local elections including the campaign of george w. bush and barack obama for president. native of san antonio her biography of nancy reagan which comes out next spring will be a read about the first lady. this panel will be moderated by an award literary - - award-winning correspondent. she is profiled george h to be bush, bill clinton, george w. bush, gerald ford, jimmy carter, and barack obama.
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congratulations on your scoop last night of former president obama and bush and clinton will take the covid back to the - - covid-19 vaccine. >> now the show assures - - is yours. >> thank you for having us. there you are. i am so thrilled to be here with all of you today and i just want to start because john mentioned the lack of a bus this year. this campaign was different in so many ways from what we are used to.
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how is it different for you? >> at the "washington post" we were all sent home the second week in march unless you could make an argument that your travel is absolutely crucial. the papers put a lock down and we are not in our office probably until june at the earliest. those who were out there for the primary season, this is the very moment it fits into the general election. we know for the democratic nominee will be. i just really felt it was very difficult to get a sense of what was going on. we were not the only ones to have that problem o'malley
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joined the biting campaign is the campaign manager she was to gear up for general election season. she goes into the philadelphia headquarters for the very first meeting with the staff and tells everybody they are going home for the duration. so end up winning the campaign from the attic of her house in suburban maryland was seven -year-old twins but also the campaign trying to figure out how to adjust all that. >> you are one of the few people in the desk for going to debates and rallies? >> i went to the second debate and then trump traveled a little bit i could catch him on a couple panel discussions and then the social distance
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rally that kamala harris is the incoming vice president had. but it was tough and as karen says with that extraordinary moment with the me klobuchar and they all met joe biden in dallas to rally around him and it became clear after winning texas and other states he would become the nominee. normally come as karen pointed out we are ready to get into it. the conventions are on hand and yes we are not at the dallas morning news either
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, but if you weeks or months to be conventions? when will we get back out there? and that was sad in a way because every four years and we didn't have it of course and he understood that but that our season was severely altered. >> thinking back to the convention what was it like
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watching them? >> i was in the best place possible to watch the convention which was my living room. every prayers when they are back to back and to maintain sobriety is difficult so at some level it's refreshing to pay attention to the speeches and not have all of the outside aggravations. on the other hand, it's a huge loss in terms of sourcing. it's a great place to talk to people that are inaccessible
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and to build your rolodex. there is a real loss on that level. as far as the public goes, these were scripted. we don't normally see that. everybody remembers 2016 when ted cruz walks onto the convention floor and says vote your conscience. everyone remembers democratic conventions torn apart by which delegation would be seated like the mississippi freedom delegation or the non- mississippi freedom delegates or what would happen with the ford reagan race in 76. carter and kennedy. conventions can be unpredictable times. in this case we lose out on tha that. >> you just don't run into people. do you?
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i want to ask the three of you. i like numbers. to say is december 3rd, one month ago was election day, nov the tally last night 80,942,426 votes for biden 74 million a.d.'s 306 / 272 and electoral college. here's what i want to ask you one month later, is it over yet? >> yes. it is over. i look at when donald trump and over on election night and
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started to talk about god. at that moment you could tell he thought he had lost one - - you don't talk about god god it took the networks and no aspersions cast and to be responsible but it takes almost one week to call the election but i don't think there is a point during that period what look like donald trump was somehow going to come back based on the votes that were still outstanding and since then it's not a question of who won the election was it a close election? from a historical perspective, absolutely, but not a question about who won. >> karen, talk a little bit about being through bush v
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gore what it felt like from historic perspective to go through this. >> donald trump continues to dominate the stage. but his antics from the 47 minute video yesterday see more desperate and his legal team that i use that phrase loosely comment is getting thrown out of every court they are taking these challenges to. they have produced no evidence for these challenges. so you do get a sense it is almost like street theater. the election results are not in doubt and it wasn't that
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close. that the great mystery of the 2020 election why the polls and expectations were so correct about the presidential race and so wrong about everything else. all the goals and expectations would have suggested that democrats would pick up seats in the house, the republicans have a better than 50/50 chance of losing the senate. i have covered a lot of presidential elections, 1988 was the first, and this is where you see a new president come and with absolutely no coattails. what is a reverse coattails? socks?
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vessel be studied in the years to come and what is fundamentally flawed and analysis that can explain it to us. but there is the mystery in the outcome of this election and the outcome of the presidential election is not a mystery but there is a lot going on in the electorate that i think we didn't understand. >> talking about what care and just raised there are two words you hear a lot in washington dc that is conventional wisdom. some of that is based on experience and history and a lot of it is also based on the polls. considering the karen said about the down ballot, what
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surprised you looking back? >> i think a lot of ticket splitting went on. there were people that said i'm going to the polls to vote either for or against donald trump those safely putting against donald trump then said the want to vote against donald trump but i don't want to send my party at your company and message so i will the senator in texas and go down the ballot and vote for a republican texas house members and karen is right because in texas democrats thought they had a chance to take control of the texas house for the first time since 2001 and on the state wide race on the strength of biden that he can
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in texas and it didn't happen because they try get trump out of office but the state on - - the same time it like a congressman and republican senators. perhaps some of that went on. >>. >> looking at the numbers for both we surprised at these record turnouts? >> and he said 81 million people would vote i thought it would be both sides not just for one candidate. 155million people voting i think in the last election
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increase was surprising to me away i expected more people were over trump and more for biden but not with the increase. people wanted to vote. and briefly to address the other question you just asked , one of the things you saw with a split at the presidential and congressional level, there is so much anger and chaos and attention to extremism going on. what you saw is collectively rejected both of those things. on the republican side you had the lightning rod of extremism and on the democratic side you have trump by lily - - battling socialism but that
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the congressional level that message penetrated. when i look at it is an electorate collectively to lower the volume. >> just to follow up considering the economic fallout in the country, were you surprised at how many votes donald trump did get? >> i was surprised at the number but the entire campaign philosophy was to find people to get people to the polls in figure that would work to some degree i didn't expect it to work quite to that level that it did you think of all sides of that we got to a point
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where the modeling right now the numbers we are told or 4 percent of the people were truly undecided down the stretch. that 4 percent made a differenc difference. the parties have figured out the game of getting more people to the polls i'm not surprised to see the numbers increase. >> we surprised by the numbers? >> i was surprised by some of the numbers within the numbers. for instance, trump did much better among latinos overall than people expected him to do. he did very well in places like miami-dade and the rio grande valley and that probably made the difference
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with the democratic numbers in florida that i think were on nobody's radar screen to be a danger to lose. the best analysis i have heard is that immigration was not as high profile and issue in this election as it was in 2016. but it was a reminder that latinos as a whole are younger than the population at large. they are less likely to be struck down by covid and also a lot of the industries hardest to and hotels and restaurants the economic issues for a lot of latino voters were survival issues. those were survival issues.
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that grew them in a way the polls were not picking up to trump's message. that is one of the things that will be studied about this election. >> by the time we got to election day, 250,000 americans had died, bob woodward's recording had come out, donald trump saying that he knew it was airborne and how dangerous it is. were you surprised he got such big numbers considering just his handling of covid-19? >> not really because we have been here before in 2016 with the access hollywood tape,
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until the comey announcement about reopening the clinton administration looked like a dead man walking in that election as well until that moment happened and he performed quite well so i figure it he would get his base back out. i didn't think the numbers would be as high as they were but i figured he would get the base back out again. where he made his mistake is from the beginning has sitting president, you have a clean slate and ability to expand that base and he didn't do a lot to expand the base and if you look at the 2016 election the close margins in michigan,
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pennsylvania, wisconsin suggested, should have suggested if he didn't do some expansion of his base even if he got them back out and had a marginal increase, the democrats would be ready this time, they wouldn't have apathy, wouldn't sit on biden like they sat on hillary clinton. they were coming for him. he knew that but didn't expand his base. he got his base back out but didn't do enough, when michigan, wisconsin or other places he could have won if he had been more a president that wasn't a base only president. >> we saw that for three years. the difference between what might have happened, which is dangerous with trump, a lot of could a what should a with him,
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on february 8th instead of not telling everyone what he told bob woodward, he said let's be superheroes, let's all wear masks, i will make himaga masks, if he had handled covid-19 differently do you think he would have won a month ago? >> probably, much closer race. the economy he got credited for building an economy that was coming. in times of crisis americans want to rally and if they think you are trying, that you are making moves based on logic and
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science they will give you the benefit of the doubt even if there are rocky patches but if you blow it aside and for instance mark people, mark biden for wearing a mask, don't take it seriously and in the late summer months abandon even fighting or at least that is what it looked like, that is when the people will say maybe we need a change and if you saw how he suffered with senior voters who are usually with the president, he took a dip in senior voting, that is because of his handling of covid-19. it was the last straw so to speak.
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the chaotic year, people could have forgiven that but he couldn't get his arms around covid-19. had it not been for that maybe he would win. >> i don't know how many errors with a shortstop, impossible to pull a output the president talked himself out of the presidency. there is a rally around the flag affect when there is a crisis. think about 9/11 or pearl harbor not that this was quite the same but the public gives the president a lot of latitude to make the errors gromer
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jeffers was talking about. everybody was scared and what you saw started is overly rosy and he decided he too was going to issue the stay-at-home guideline which made a lot of sense and struggle with it openly, thought himself in public on the podium in the briefing room every day saying how much he wanted to reopen the economy having a fight with himself but when he started to get into the territory of i am going to preschool hydroxychloroquine or inject bleach into yourself, the loss of trust, go because we know that would be an idiotic thing to do but the loss of trust that he even had a handle on dealing with this was a problem for him, he could have looked at it from a political perspective as an opportunity to show leadership and walk out
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of it stronger in the way he did with the economy. he was very confident there would be some rebound at some level he could show but he didn't do that with the pandemic, never figured out how to deal with it, dealt with it as a problem with him politically instead of an opportunity politically and as we all know no matter how many times we go through crises the best politics is to deal as straightforwardly and effectively with the crisis in front of you as you can and he did not do it. it is more rhetorical than the substance of what he was doing, we can argue about pieces of the covid-19 response and things he was signaling about his leadership style, lack of seriousness about it that were
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difficult for many voters. >> he was hurt by his willingness to politicize things like wearing a mask, or whatever is the opposite of virtue signaling, turning things that should have been basic public health measures, trusting science into signifiers of whether you were a democrat or republican, people watch that, people understood he kept saying we have more testing made no sense to people, and responses in other countries were more effective as much as the president would deny this. this was a time when reality did catch up with him.
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also wondering what might have happened if the pfizer vaccine announcement happened two weeks earlier. >> to follow up on that, some famous campaigns at white houses in his time, thinking back, they were known for discipline, and process. this was a presidency filled with some wild and dramatic moments but there is one this fall that i would have liked to have been sitting next to secretary baker watching his face and that is when donald trump went to walter reed, then got into his car and drove around and was waving and
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finally when he returned to the white house with the big helicopter scene and going to the balcony, and taking off his mask. what were you all thinking when you watched that moment? you talk about the big picture, his handling of covid-19 but that was october, not that long ago. when you were watching that nice what did you think was going on? >> it was one of the most bizarre things i have seen in the time i covered politics. at least they were able to talk him out of pulling off his shirt and revealing he was wearing a superman t-shirt
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because one thing is americans, including ads that point over 200,000 people had died, people understood donald trump had access to treatment that their loved ones did not and wild trump seem to want to signal covid-19 wasn't that big of a deal that he had some super constitutions that made him superhuman or something, that was so at odds with the reality people were seeing and feeling in their communities and their homes that it doesn't quite send a message. >> gromer jeffers. >> a lot of times the president's first instinct is to go to his showmanship backgrounds.
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this wasn't the last 15 minutes of celebrity apprentice. it is a situation where you try to set a tone on image for the rest of the country, you just had covid-19 as karen tumulty pointed out treatment that other americans can't get and here you are in a moment where jonathan allen talks about the opportunity to be presidential or use the moment in a way to be a statesman or show leadership he could have emerged, maybe a speech about i dealt with this, no one should want this, where your masks, social distance, do what you've got to do, not to get this disease because you don't want to get it like i did. show compassion and leadership
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but he took the showmanship route, the reality tv route going to the top and looking out there and all of that. one of the things about being a political reporter your family and friends call you, what is going on? the last 15 minutes of a reality show where you have someone doing something more effectual. >> host: could have should have would have moments. three years ago we use to say pivot all the time, even covid-19 did not make up have it. what did you think you were watching? >> to gromer jeffers's point
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about showmanship, the stagecraft is excellent, it is reaganesque in its use of the power of the presidency of the trappings, the presidency is completely out of touch with the moment, not what is called for and was ronald reagan would not have done and bill clinton would not have done it george w. bush and george h w bush is in danger other people's lives for the benefit of the stagecraft and so it seems to show screeching believe dissonant to me that i am watching the president behave in this manner that seems presidential from the trapping standpoint and the level of how do i protect the american people, so deeply unpresidential? >> one of the things i just realized as i looked at the
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time we have been talking for 40 minutes about donald trump, not about president-elect biden. let's just go back to the campaign a little bit, campaign strategies on both sides and if you would each talk to me about joe biden and what messages worked, what strategies worked, how did he get to be president-elect apart from what donald trump is doing? >> for those of us following a large democratic field in iowa, new hampshire and nevada, joe biden looked like a dead man walking. he got his clock cleaned in iowa, he went to new hampshire
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and did even worse, he barely barely barely pulled out a second place finish in nevada. he was really limping into south carolina and it really was a testament to his own tennis because he ran on the same message beginning to end that this was an election about character. he was not allowing himself to be drawn to the left as some in his party were trying to pull him but this extraordinary moment, a single endorsement out of james cliburn that essentially pulled joe biden's campaign out of a ditch and put him on the road to the nomination. that campaign was out of money,
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not at all equipped to a general election, the completely different endeavor and the degree to which the biden campaign was able to rebuild itself not only for a normal general election but one conducted in this environment is such -- such good books written about this because the discipline that campaign showed, there was a lot of talk about will they play in texas? they made some modest bad buys in texas, they sent kamala harris to texas near the end but they knew there was a block of states they needed to win. most of them in the upper midwest. they really kept their focused where they knew they needed to win. and they won those states, they
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got georgia, arizona, florida, but they did what they needed to do and we have seen that kind of discipline in his operation as they were beginning to build a team for the presidency. the people being picked for these key jobs, breaking a lot of glass ceilings when it comes to gender, when it comes to race but at the same time these are all people coming to these jobs with very deep background in the issues that they will be dealing with and this is so different from the trump transition which sometimes felt like a casting call for celebrity apprentice. >> he really has looked different. remember trump tower and the elevator, looking back at the
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biden campaign, what do you think, apart from the cliburn moment, what made it work big picture? >> he caught a couple of breaks. he had a long-established connection to communities of color particularly black voters, the other front runners didn't have so after pete buttigieg emerged from the mostly white state of iowa and new hampshire he pretty much had nowhere to go. 0% with african-american voters. you can't win that way. most of the other contenders struggled as well and bernie
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sanders became -- was the front runner which helped biden as well because people were able to rally around him because they knew a sanders nomination would be a disaster for the party. so he benefited from those things and i do think he has the wherewithal to survive and hold on because you know you will get rough media coverage coming out of iowa and new hampshire and the campaign struggled, they were not raising money. the strategy was off. they allow him not to get put in the trap with the socialist message and other messages mentioned earlier that republicans were throwing out other democratic candidates people were able to say i know joe biden. that is not the joe biden i know.
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he had discipline, that was a great choice to sort of hold the campaign on course where if you just didn't mess it up he had trump on the other side and if you have a coherent message and let it play out he would -- that is what happened. >> jonathan? >> just trying to unmute. this has been brought up a couple times, the people who are with us, particularly in struck you for folks that want to learn about her. itunes to look at this as a
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strength of biden going the old school rules of campaigning because having written a book about the 2016 election, some of the mistakes hillary clinton, one of the things that was a mistake for her that was overarching for her campaign was failure to connect her biography to a message that told voters what she was going to do for them. that was the thing biden succeeded on more than anything. karen talked about the character piece of it, character, confidence, compassion and i thought he did a good job of that. he ran the campaign he would have run had he run in 1980 or 1984 when he ran in 1988, when he thought about running in 1992. this was the seventh presidential campaign he at least dipped his toes in the water and i don't think any of
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them would have looked a lot different in terms of what biden was trying to do which was to get through the democratic primary without getting yanked so far to the left he would have trouble in the general and he succeeded. if you go back to the beginning of his campaign when he rolls out the soul of the nation, his slogan for the things i talked about, compassion and character. that was a big deal for what you saw. and a lot of democratic candidates, essentially the lesson of teddy kennedy failing in 1982 explain why he wanted to run for president and how damaging that was to him. biden lived through that time and he kept the lesson to connect his personal narrative for what he wanted to do for the people and articulate that clearly.
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>> stay the course, the task of expanding facemasks, not getting out there. there was amongst, when trump started campaigning i was impressed with that. >> those of us who have seen a lot of joe biden, having him in his basement, keeping him on message, is not necessarily a problem. the other big moment was the first debate where donald trump comes out to the stage. the only thing that could have made that debate any wilder was somebody released a rabid squirrel on the stage. that was a real turning point. in this election.
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>> none of you mentioned kamala harris which is interesting because after all of this time, now that a woman has won as part of the ticket as a woman of color i feel as if a lot of people take it for granted all of a sudden. what do you think? >> on inauguration day people will not take it for granted. i have actually been surprised, we will be interviewing the two of them together, i have been a little bit surprised that they haven't as they are building their administration done a little more to flesh out what her role is going to be, what
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is her fort folio, so many different models a vice president to be a president's governing partner, starting to wonder, what exactly, where does she fit in this picture and they will be asking that. on inauguration day that is going to be a very powerful picture. >> how big a rolled you think this was having kamala harris there? >> it played a significant role because he made the best choice. sometimes you get in trouble when you don't make the best choice and take a chance. reports that he was strongly
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considering, senator harris stuck with that. that was the right choice, creating problems with the space or with african-american voters and black women. it sets up a situation where she can be a historic partner in this process. look at george w. bush, it was a novel concept. what biden can create a role for senator harris that moves forward the role of vice president. modernize, to create some kind of nasty cruel thing for her to
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work on and in that situation moves the party for word, the message of democrats is the party of inclusion and if you deploy senator harris in the right way that would bode well for the future for a number of reasons, most notably how the party looks at the image you project. >> there is a strong assumption that joe biden will be a one term president and if that is the case. kamala harris goes into the lead position, and and as people scrutinize her and imagine her in that role.
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>> it is amazing you have this moment where we seem to have gotten closer to where we should have been all along. the south asian women, hands the reason, she did no harm, provides cover, providing cover, on the crime bill on anita hill.
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some of the things he said on school busing and that whole area. she provides cover for him there, provides cover for him, and to attack him there. had he not been in the race and did not, she became the nominee that was helpful, with turnout and energy for the ticket. and is historic but it speaks a little bit too why there might not have been as much attention in the media to this
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groundbreaking moment, it's not lost on any person of color, what a huge moment that is. and the political director in the white house, she cried when it was made. and what joe biden had done is to etch the names and images of women of color into the history books. that was something for which joe biden will never be forgotten. the media conversation, in the real world, on the ground, on inauguration day.
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>> let me add senator harris is not a darling of progressives, progressive democrats, on the other side of her on issues, criticize her for what she did as a prosecutor in california, still overwhelmed by the moment and shed tears as well and appreciate the moment. you are right about the tears and emotion some people had when she was selected. >> a couple minutes, we take questions from people who have been watching this but i want to ask a little bit about press coverage.
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we have existential dysfunction the last four years, they were used in normal dysfunction but reporters generally don't like to say the president, they don't like to use the l word, fact check, we don't like to say he lied. but it has changed a lot. has reporters, i feel as if even now, dealing with two realities. to believe the election was stolen and those who don't. as a reporter, as a columnist
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what were the challenges dealing with that? >> people have gone into their media silo and those of us who work for legacy news organizations in those worlds, i actually think on the fact checking ability, that are not true, ability to build context, we are doing a better job than you were doing when donald trump first appeared on the scene and everything he did was covered as the second coming.
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we have really fallen down in the trump years, we have not distinguished well enough for our readers and viewers, to create 15 distractions a day, every ball throwing over the plate, people in the country just get exhausted with the thing and tune us all out. >> you were -- >> one of those criticism, discerning readers and television viewers, when can i have my normal news that? when can it not be all about trump every day every hour all day you fastball, curveball.
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this came from a viewer and reader, trump, hurricane, mass shootings and now covid-19, that is what you get when you turn on the news in the era of trump. sort of a regular news flow there are other players in that, just normalcy. the problem is the public basically put on our dirty the or degeneracy and are going to watch what they want to watch and usually that is what reaffirms, and how they get out of that i don't know.
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and being more of a viewer, i'm a republican but that is wrong, i'm a democrat and that is wrong. that is the problem. i don't have an answer to that. >> i know you have a solution to this. >> the good old days are not as good as we remember but -- i'm sorry? >> you froze for a minute so you are back. >> the good old days are always good as billy joel said but i remember when i first started covering capitol hill there was a new congressman from iowa named steve king you may be familiar with and he says a lot of them bombastic things and things that are offensive to a
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lot of people. i would interview him and he often had insight into where the extreme wing of his party was but he would say things that were patently offensive. i would always look at my notebook and be like i don't need to give airtime to this to this patently offensive thing. it is not adding - memorable ways, reflective of what the process was so there is a judgment at the individual level of what are you going to highlight? it is very difficult. we have become local news in terms of if it bleeds it leads and donald trump is spreading that. i generally think the responsibility of the
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individual reporter, to limit the scope of what they are promoting, that are more reflective of the mainstream thinking influencing decisions instead of who said what crazy thing. with trump, there is a real challenge because he's the president of the united states. typically anything out of the mouth of the president of the united states is news and is treated as such. trying to limit that are defined that or things that actually matter, try to figure out what the policy process is in the white house, isn't really that substantive piece, this is the thing that matters and this is the thing that doesn't because trump treats them all the same. >> let me take some questions,
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let me try to read these with my glasses. we have the first question from i hope i pronounce it correctly, david newberger. did the democrat -- the problem with the congressional race are rise from their failure to emphasize healthcare in 2020 as they did in 2018? in 2020 they focused on other issues such as black lives matter and the environment and the pandemic. who wants to take that on? >> the inability to come up with a clear position on the
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social justice issue. the inability to fend off attacks, if you're a democrat you are free d funding the police and related to that. democrats wanted to talk about healthcare the way they did in 2018 and to tie the healthcare issue to the pandemic because now more than ever people need to be insured. they -- by the defund the police and the socialist messages out there and unlike biden they didn't have clear positions on it, allowed themselves to be exploited, there were candidates, to spend
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money defending themselves against charges they were for defunding the police, that was the problem. >> a lot of questions, we will try to do a lightning round and go through some of them. do you think the increase in early voting will change how presidential candidates will campaign. >> it will change the way the president's campaign, the authority to bank votes early in some places and you will see behaviorally even if there is early voting everywhere, where do people vote early by mail, where do they show up on election day will affect where the candidates go, the messages they use in different parts of the country and different times going down the stretch, how they raise money and & it.
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it will affect the way people campaign and we side this time in the trump campaign, the biden campaign had more money, they were trying to do that by mail as soon as possible to have a better picture of where they need to go. voting by mail and voting early became partisan. i would not have anticipated ahead of the election, the short answer to the question that will change. >> do you think a significant factor in the biden win was he didn't need to say much, but he wasn't donald trump.
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>> i do think joe biden is not the most under normal circumstances disciplined candidate you would ever see but he was able to demonstrate the contrast with donald trump by wearing a mask, by running his campaign differently, by expressing empathy which is something that donald trump never does. there was a lot of this campaign geared at being a contrast with the incumbent and the fact is you have an incumbent president on the ballot the race is going to be about him and in donald trump's case that was more the case than normal. >> i will ask for three of you, we are not at january 20th yet.
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gromer jeffers, will donald trump pardon himself and his children? what do you think? >> i will say i will take half of that. i don't think he will pardon himself but he will pardon one or more of his children. >> jonathan allen? >> i think there will be pardons in the trump family but not the president himself in part because the states are not covered by federal law and it is not an issue. he's not worried joe biden's justice department will prosecute him. he is worried joe biden's justice department could prosecute his kids or somebody else. >> karen tumulty? >> a total out-of-the-box scenario i have no reason to
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believe but what if donald trump were to resign on january 19th and have vice president pence become president pence and pardon him? that would could a president pardon himself and get him out of having to go to the inauguration. >> that leads to my next question which is he is unlikely to go to the inauguration but as we know with donald trump 5 minutes from now that could be completely different. do you think donald trump will attend the inauguration? >> i can't even imagine that, what that would be like. we have three presidents in our history decide not to attend inauguration, he may be the next want to do that. >> gromer jeffers?
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>> i don't think so. he may hold a rally somewhere to announce his 2024 presidential bid is more likely. one of the great moments in politics was when george w. bush attended the inauguration. he stood up and was acknowledged and did the right thing. it was a powerful moment. >> will the trumps invite the bidens for the white house for any of the usual transition welcomes we've seen in the past? >> i don't know. it is unlike him. it would be unlike him. may be milania trump, the first lady, will do something.
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>> do you think he will attend the inauguration? will there be any invitation to the white house? >> we are in prediction mode, i will go against the panel. i think he will go to the inauguration. after four years of acting unusually it might be a good moment for him to be remembered. he's going to move into legacy area where he is thinking about his legacy. when donald trump has the opportunity to be on television when he turned it down, even as the former president you have cameras on you and have attention on you and generally speaking if you behave like a normal president people say
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nice things about you because you are going out, doesn't really matter. he might have the sense to do that. as far as inviting the bidens to do things it doesn't look like that. doesn't feel like that. the one set of people trump seems to have some respect for our people his age. i don't know the everything he said about joe biden was respectful but i think he was a little less nasty about joe biden than about other people. he tends to be more respectful of people, maybe he will think it is the right thing to do, to act normally for a president, people who say he is pretty gracious one on ones so there would be no reason not to do that. >> i see john williams popping up. i will ask one last question. a minute for each of you.
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do you think donald trump will run in 2024? >> i actually don't. >> gromer jeffers? >> i say no. i think he will start running the first couple years, first year to have signal he is running and it will just change. it is hard for someone to come back after losing a -- and incumbent losing a presidential election. i don't see it but i think he will run initially. >> jonathan allen? >> politicians have a tendency of shamelessness of ego and donald trump has both of those in the extreme. i would pull nothing out in terms of him running again. >> with that, i wish all three of you a wonderful 2021.
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my wish is a little more normal, a little more boring and made the vaccines be safe and effective. thank you for doing this today. and it back over to you. >> appreciate it. for news junkies everywhere, thank you for that and lightning conversation, it was a good one. >> listen to c-span's podcast, the weekly, this weekend, zach smith with the iowa press citizen joins us to discuss the race in iowa's second congressional district called for republican marionette miller mixed by six votes. the contest will be decided by the house of representatives. c-span, the weekly, where you get your podcast. >> stay with c-span for continuing coverage of the transition of power as
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president-elect joe biden moves closer to the presidency. with the electoral college votes cast from states across the country join us on january 6th live at 1:00 pm eastern for the joint session of congress to count the votes and declare the winner for president and vice president and finally at noon on january 20th the inauguration of the 40 sixth president of the united states. live coverage begins at 7 am eastern from the statehouse to congress to the white house, watch it all live on c-span, on the go, or listen using the free c-span radio apps. >> labor secretary eugene scalia talked about the federal government's role in providing and implement workers and difficulty states had implemented the paycheck protection program. he said he's leery about making stimulus proposals permanent because they encourage some people not to work. the american enterp


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