tv Catherine Grace Katz The Daughters of Yalta CSPAN January 15, 2021 3:03pm-4:14pm EST
and the crippling of american democracy. he is interviewed by wall street journal congressional reporter christine pederson . much book tv, this weekend on "c-span2". wednesday joe biden will be sworn in as the 45th president of the united states in our nation's capital. and in light of the attack on the capitol, the temporary closing of the national mall traditional inauguration has been modified. follow her life of the day unfolds. starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern . rc arrival at the capital. the soaring end of joe biden and kamala harris. in the inaugural address. inauguration of joe biden beginning at 7:00 a.m. eastern on wednesday, live coverage on c-span. and cspan.org. listen live in the c-span radio app.
>> good evening. i have the privilege of serving as director. and on behalf of hunter collins, want to welcome you to another online presentation. during this particularly dramatic. in our country, it is especially troubling we cannot gather in a historic house on 56th street to process recent events together in the roosevelt house tradition of civic engagement and civil discussion. in fact displayed where we would have done this meeting, the images on the wall that our audiences face, they feature photographs from the very conference in the heart of tonight's conversation. arguably the most important and perhaps most consequential summit meeting in world history. yalta partied i am so pleased as we all are that we can continue in line with programs this man
past and present from discussions of current public policy to considerations of the history that is helped shape the circumstances of the present day. harold: i want to think those of you who have responded to our recent appeals for support and more than ever it is crucial to have your backing as we plan on the spring semester of programming online. we be be very grateful for your continued generous support and i urge you to have a look at the messaging of the companies are indications of these days. i'm returning to tonight's program, reaches the back to another of the moments when the direction of the country and the globe was being decided. not by election at that time, not even by the war which was nearly over. but by the world leaders together to attend the conflicts.
seventy-five years ago. in february of 1945 to make a plan for post- world war ii piece. the tensions among plenty roosevelt, winston churchill and joseph stalin, strained the validation of the alliance that is really on the wharf. and upon which peace depended. perhaps a dying fdr, week he spoke without quite the energy that had animated his leadership during the war itself. sue who helped fdr. who helped the other leaders. i could not be more pleased to welcome someone with an entirely new and original take. catherine grace katz, discussing her new and also happens to be her first book, "the daughters of yalta", the roosevelt, the
story of love and war. for the first time, the rather eye-opening story of the three intelligent glamorous young woman who community the famous father. kathleen harrimen daughter of soviet union and future governor of new york. and sarah churchill, daughter of the greatest prime minister and franklin and eleanor's only daughter hannah. and through the eyes of loyal political savvy women, readers were given fresh insight perspective on the drama of the conference as well is its information during the final days of world war ii. catherine grace katz is not only us that his person but also pursuing her jd at harvard law school. like roosevelt house itself, her
expertise bridges the past and present. the most delighted to welcome back to roosevelt house, although virtually, my friend amanda foreman. affectionately known as bill who will conduct this conversation. amanda is acclaimed biographer, historian and author's prize pointing bestsellers georgiana duchess of devon shire in world on fire and epic history of two nations divided afraid to consider the best book ever written about the abraham lincoln administrations relationships with european powers. during the civil war. it's really a great book. she's also a columnist at the wall street journal and writer and host a groundbreaking new documentary series, if it's a woman. her next book, the world made by women is scheduled to be published next year by penguin
random house. if this time we had the pleasure of welcoming amanda, was to discuss another important book about powerful female leaders, the reprint of eleanor roosevelt, it is up to the women. joining her that night for the readings of the reproduction. along with her father, the beloved advisor member, there with us tonight for unit and so let's give them a special welcome. and others to home want to extend special gratings are members of the roosevelt family. david and others. and also cackling son, david. we are very happy to have you all with this and it's honor. because helpless make a direct connection even in these remote times to the subject of tonight's conversation. before we begin let's mention a few housekeeping details.
we always aim to re-create the robust audience q&a noise characterizes are in person events online we do the same and we ask you in the audience to use the q&a button on the bottom of your zoom screen to input your questions and at any time during the program. and at the end of it, there will all be fielded and directed to our guests the moderated q&a and hosted by roosevelt house programming. so get your questions in. and, to obtain a copy of the book, "the daughters of yalta", complete with an autographed bookplate. autographed by the author, please keep an eye on the chat function on your laptops for a link to purchase a copy with the bookplate exclusively from a bookstore, shakespeare and company. call it the next best thing to
the book signing. so doctor steven is here who has written extensively about roosevelt's final years including the state of itself. he's also contributed any wonderful artworks to the roosevelt house collection. so thank you for being here. and also a great biographer of the owner roosevelt's here and eleanor is of course a woman who wanted to go to yalta but she didn't. and blanche welcome, dorothy a member of our boarded bit advisors is here. we welcome her. and last but not least, i am thrilled to my friend kate quinney is here. she has been important to me and to my family for half a century and the grandest daughter of franklin's and seller is about
that is a pleasure to welcome kate has well. so now please join me in welcoming catherine grace katz and amanda foreman. catherine: is my great pleasure to be able to introduce catherine grace katz. welcome and i just want to say that i cannot remember the last time that i so much pleasure in writing a book such as yours. it really is an absolute triumph. and i would like to have the opportunity to talk to you about it today. catherine: thank you so much. it and thank you so much for the roosevelt house for having me. this is great fun. and even though we can meet in person to my think that this is the next best thing. am so glad that you all gathered together this evening so thank you very much everyone.
harold: is harold manchin, thank you have an interesting bio. you are at harvard in cambridge and i are back at harvard where you are born in chicago. can you just tell us a little bit about also, what led you to this transatlantic education. catherine: have always loved history from the time of his little girlfriend grew up on movies like the sound of music and white christmas in the great escape. and very fortunate to grow up with mom who led to us all of the time, every night. and some of her favorite books were british soldiers classics. we read everything. and really sparked a love of british culture and history for me and a very young age. i cannot remember a time that i didn't love history. i think it was very about five years old. maybe someday going to oxford or cambridge came to my mind . so think it was no surprise when i
came to a history major. it was my dream party. david: so you also have . catherine: and looking at the counterintelligence practices. host: , this aspect of the history is really been great thing to you for any years. catherine: it has. i've always loved american history. it was great fun to really explore these academically. and obviously it to a wider audience in the form of the book. host: what made you think about turning the lens of history the other way. instead of looking at it from the mail antagonist. how did you come up with this idea and the papers for this. of these three women.
catherine: was one of those moments where various coincidences all collided. instead setting churchill. he and his family and grad school and also as an undergraduate and churchill's of course wrote about his own escape during the cold war. and i had just started his book and they young age of 24. and so when i got back from cambridge, i decided like any other other grads, i would work in finance in your forget but by sheer coincidence there was bookstore in the lobby. it was after any visits to this bookstore, i got to know the author. [laughter]. and she introduced me to the international churchill society and the family. and is around this time they were opening churchill daughter
sarah, the first time they asked if if i would write an article ninth of course said yes. talking back to cambridge. i always wanted to be a writer and find my way back to history. and 24 or 25 years old, i just didn't know how he would do that. so i wrote an article on service papers and during the course of researching about her life, i came so fascinated by her experience. in a new a little bit about sarah before this. and i guess coincidentally, since i was a little girl, my family had gone to the island and georgia. and there in the wall is a photograph of her. she looked there with her second husband. as i had these two sort of childhood memories . sarah on the wall and sit on his chance to write about her remarkable experience during world war ii. especially, homework answers
father's aid. i found this completely fascinating. i did not realize despite having studied yalta, i knew that sarah had been in the conferences and that kathleen had also been at yalta. in part by sarah's remarkable value to her father. kathleen harrimen was fascinating so your interests widened to all three women. and it was fascinating. it's like that kind of snapshot so by the time you get there, everything changed. churchill is about to be pushed out. it and became prime minister. so talking about yalta, you are really capturing a photograph, a moment in time. catherine: yes the great photograph picture of churchill and fdr and stalin together that
was in the courtyard at the palace which was taken on february 8, 1945 . and you can see the looks on their faces. and they were at war for five years. and also will talk about that in a minute . and was laying on them at this conference . there finally at the end of the work. and they can see it finally in sight. in the war the pacific is far from over though. so he gathered at yalta to discuss essentially orbiting topics. the first is about germany and should be one nation broken into smaller states in hopes that it does not rise up again. in this matter of independence and britain had gone to war for sovereignty at the outset targeted they did not want to walk away from congress and the colleagues in london and the polish government had been in
london since the beginning of our saying they were not able to succeed at. in the set out to accomplish them from the very beginning. and how to bring the soviet union into the civic. the soviets in the japan and the japanese since the beginning of war . i didn't know if it - a chance at the basics of the japanese island 4,200,000 american soldiers, who they want to bring soviets in exchange for possession to save american lives free to finally just a matter of the of the united nations . result want to succeed where woodrow wilson has failed the nations and eternal peace was possible. he didn't know if it would be possible to achieve this case in europe for at least 50 years. and also, just a way to bring the soviet union and the international community after the end of the work is a common enemy has been defeated targeted and the issues that are weighing on them. you can see that in their faces. there's also another photograph
of the same scene which was taken from a slightly different perspective. an agency the two women off to the side. of course and we mentioned three women. you can see kathleen harrimen and kathleen harrimen. and also an offering a nano was 38. in these women is remarkable that they were there . struck by her presence. it's really about the relationships with her father's that was so important . ball people, they were chosen to take up with them that they chose to bring the daughters at their age. it's incredibly important moment between the world were in the cold war. so you have these three women in a photograph of the three of them together. you see sarah in her uniform. and anna in the middle and kathleen on the end and lovely for cows. it was incredible to think about the rules as daughters of the
diplomat and what it would be like to be put on a pedestal. the for them to be just that their data . to be the same age of these women that they were at the conference and to be learning about this remarkable opportunity. host: so i wanted ask you, what did you mean by the well it is a fantastic moment and phrase. really lebanon reminds me of another phrase. a diplomatic prize. the throughout history, the daughters, they played this role. and where they are the eyes and the ears of the home team as they go off to wherever training and the associate in our messengers and they have really are playing a really incredibly important role in history.
so when you say diplomatic daughters, give us a sense of what that entails. catherine: so for these three daughters, they are not there speaking for the government per se and they're not in session square they debating the skull and on these issues there at stake. they're able to go now conversations and deliver messages to the people, an official rep. of the government might not be able to do. so they're able to collect information from these conversations and bring them back to their father to report on certain visit . and why they need to surface these extremely important time when feelings are so incredibly important. they can occupy this reporting they are able to go places where others cannot. and that because i official status for this become for the government but the force of the
father's words behind them is extremely valuable to each of their fathers at the conference. kathleen: so it starts with kathleen harrimen who was 27 at the time. who was her father. as the richest man in the united states. what is that mean rated and what social media or were they came from. catherine: so she was the youngest daughter. the chairman of the pacific railroad encounters of the banking firms. also the founder of sun valley comiskey resort which was the brainchild to encourage americans by using it as a glamorous destination there. remember that.
he was an extremely successful businessman but he also had an incredible commitment. in the older sister was a founder of the jr league and she also worked in the administration and along with perkins was one of the most powerful men. so it through her example and inspiration that he was at the head of his time and wanting to involve his daughters in his professional world. that's what they wanted to be. in his underwear kathleen were not especially close when she was a little girl. her parents worked until she was tenant before her mother died when she was a teenager that they found their way back together through an . kathleen was an incredibly accomplish horsewoman. she was a crack shot and an olympic level spirit so she and her father shared this bond especially of skiing.
and she was working along side him so when he became the american amazon boy before the united states entered into the war he thought it would be a wonderful i did have kathleen to have the experience to go with him. so he arranged it to work is more reporter in london. is there they became close friends with the churchill family. kathleen: was she is an experienced writer. she had not really written before. catherine: this was a new endeavor for her. so little bit of a trial by fire. but she covered stories like lifting spirits. before long she's covering things like pilots who had been shot down and horrifically burned. it and covering things like press conferences the european
government especially the exile. so is there that she become skeptical and soviet union through a cheap experiences press conferences and even earlier than her father is . when he became an investor to the soviet union and 43, she goes with him. and really becomes his assistant and bested her. and goes on to become a woman who has experienced with skull and in his inner circle than any other woman in american history. kathleen: plus linda sarah churchill. kinda sad sad figure in your book. let's talk about her. catherine: some people may know about the end of her life where she was a moderately successful actress. kathleen: pangolin. let's not get ahead of us. catherine: the earlier part of her life was really exciting incredible.
and very thrilled to be able to share this perspective on her life. she and her father were extremely close . she's the middle child just special bond with their fathers and she was very young since she felt like even though she was very shy, she would like to be with him any times free to understood that the way his brain worked . they spent long hours together in the garden where he would engage in one of his favorite activities which helped him relax. they spent hours in a quite apartment and quiet harmony together. she was very much like a father and wanting to make her own way the world. suffer a young woman of her class in generation, there weren't any careers open to her. so she decided to become an actress. as of running away with the star of her show who was older than she was also an austrian person and her father was concerned about this in the 30s. ultimately, the marriage did not
survive . when the war broke out, she realized she wanted to do her part in the countries also she became an officer in the women's branch where she was involved in aerial and intelligence and she later became details of the operation special in the mediterranean area. she was also an incredibly beautiful writer. the churchill family decided early in the war that they wanted someone in the family to go with him. it in part to collect information and record the stories behind the scenes for his memoirs which they knew he would later) and sarah had a great gift of language much like he did. in her writing ability and astute understanding of her father's mind. she was a perfect person to accompany him. kathleen: so for the sake of her marriage at this point. sue and so she separated for a
husband they do more for work-related putting enough to avoid writing a scandal for the prime minister. and they didn't want to be distractions for unit so she is separated from her husband but she has struck up an attachment with somebody who is at yalta in spirit if not physically present. kathleen: also catherine is single. and now anna roosevelt tell us about her. catherine: she the only mother of the three daughters. and she is 38, the oldest . and she and her father were very close when she was a little girl. they had a shared passion for nature . in the natural world. they would spend long hours together writing in respect through field. and she would become the coke and study and almost with him on the high part from their home in new york. and she then went kind of to the
outside looking in and cite kind of surrounded by doctors and nurses in his political colleagues who have come to him. she was in a way to school. she was a debutante much to her chagrin. like eleanor roosevelt, they were not interested in that she would become a debutante . she is a prevailing and has a hasty managed entered marriage. in the marriage breaks down quickly. she has two children in this marriage when she fell in love with a republican journalist who work for one of fdr's most outspoken critics. it may fall in love and they overcome any political distances and they get married and have another child. and they were with the seattle post intelligence firm party to win her husband joined the army in 1943, sheet was home for christmas. and decided to stay at the white house in part because she knows that something is wrong with her
father. he would stare off into space wrote long grades of time and is not as sharp to details. she thinks is very odd and her mother doesn't seem to have noticed or perhaps did not want to notice the change in him. so she insists that he and a comprehensive medical examination which reveals the end of congestive heart failure. any dying. there's no care. the fear does not want to know what's wrong with the nebraska doctors and so this falls on anna to carry the secret to try to make his life as free of burden as possible for a wartime president. so she becomes a gatekeeper for him in the white house and we decided who can meet with him or someone else. and and sometimes checking his inbox at nine and distributing them to others. and then at yalta, and anna is protecting him in some way. and so he says to churchill, if you're thinking of bringing sarah again, think i bringing my
daughter anna. samantha filings has the chance of being at her father's side. and being accessible to him. and he's thrilled that she joins him. kathleen: so she had dark secrets in her own life. what is going on with her marriage to john. it's very dark secret that she does know about john and her daughter. catherine: 's awareness that it has mental health issues and had gone undiagnosed . one of the things we know much better today and he became more affected by his experience during the war. so there are problems at home and anna started to do our best to overlook. not knowing quite what to do and i don't want to give too much away. all people to read the book perhaps to know more about this
one. she's keeping any secrets for her father and keeping secrets from her mother about his relationship with lucy mercer. it really keeping secrets to herself about around life and marriage. so she carries an enormous burden. and of course cannot tell anybody about what is happening. kathleen: right, so these three women all with tricky and difficult lives, arrived yalta. and brush in any ways with his village, to 19 but you go into one of these buildings . it and suddenly it disappears . is all for show. one of these palaces like. what is yalta like. and how are these for their three charges organist. catherine: in any ways russia
and the relationship to reality, is that yalta is self is almost a character in the story targeted because of the richness of the setting. and just the chaos is being swept under the rug. while they are there. i think that also is really important to understand what it took to get to yalta for unit is about, we can put that up on the screen. it shows just how far it was . mean churchill had a flight to london first and then he rendezvoused with fdr and he had been traveling for a week by ship through waters . and at yalta, i suggest another cymbalta . [inaudible]. they go 1400 miles in unfamiliar territory. then they had to fly by planes and the planes get shot of the way and they land six hours away
from their destination. they have to then drive over battle scarred roads and 20 miles per hour all the way down to the black seacoast which is beautiful and was once the summer home of he and his family. and his health and of his friends. socrates so the palace is a beautiful building . but until recently had become the headquarters of the and the campaign which the soviets found their way. the took with them everything they could carry. they come from completely stripped the palace of furniture. the dishes and even down to the door knobs. there's nothing there. the soviets three weeks after they decide where the conference would be held . the day they all decide to restock with any . they come to this grand hotel. this was in moscow on trains the guarded thousand mile south.
and then they restock it and then they have to requisition every day items like ashtrays and hangers. in the village where they got it had been completely destroyed by the war. and it does not appear to be the same on the inside as it does appear to be on the surface. and so there is a lot of texture in the scenery around the conference itself. kathleen: so you kind of laid out some of the personal aspect. so want to delve into some other aspects that are at stake. so the relationship that you described is almost like, everyone is teaching everyone else. so we have churchill and sarah and roosevelt and others argued
so can you just sort of give us a kind of a map and that secret things that are happening on at the same time. catherine: so that having an affair with churchill. [laughter]. yes. so the most famous saying this group of people of course is the relationship between pamela churchill and winston churchill's daughter-in-law. she married randall and they had a turbulent marriage. and she also sees herself as a great person into its use this as an increasing around power in london. so they begin a relationship shortly before kathleen arrives in london targeted in 1941. and kathleen and she became best friends. she agrees to cover up for this. and things become more dangerous in london during the blitz. in a breakup the affair because
of the ambassador of the soviet union. the relationship between kathleen is very interesting. symbols like colleagues and business partners. so the affair is over for now but kathleen is still pamela's friend. but of the people roster running to the conference including the head of the raf, the portal who is deeply enamored with pamela targeted rice a 30 page letter to her to show off everything in the conference . and also having relationship with fred anderson. so everybody's involved with pamela targeted incredibly rich letters to her. and of course, sarah is in a relationship with the market investor who has been left out of the conference in part because of his local views. in his divergent at this time when it is very advocating for
the full so have not been invited to the conference. so is also lifted home. in fdr's having his relationship with lucy mercer which began when anna was a little girl rated and not in a traditional sense is a point certainly an emotional affair. that is one they asked his daughter to keep from eleanor. anna is very torn about this because she did not want to betray her mother. because she knows just how awful it was for eleanor when she learned of this . to be she also sees that her father is dying. and she's desperate to do anything to give him any measure of peace and comfort in these last days of the war and of his life. and so she agrees to keep the secret which is a horrible position for any child to have to be in. kathleen: wasn't that also an affair between a brother.
catherine: very brief fling with fdr jr. his younger brother. a. kathleen: who was buried and sun catherine: there were letters between kathleen and fdr jr by hopkins. kathleen: this is an amazing prayer roll where they seems to know each other. the social knowledge of how things to progress in the politics . and also danger. because of giving out too much . catherine: mysteries moments were politics is instantly personal. you cannot take them apart . the need to be bound together. these families are bound together. at least three fathers who brought one of the children and harry hopkins also brought one of his sons.
and there's a soviet child there as well. and he did not allow her to interact. but the head has brought his son as part of this team. and they, his son is listening in on fdr's private quarters. so there are all of these other aspects to the story taking place in the background as well. a. think it is also fdr andchurchie extremely close relationship through the war in a special relationship built on the bond. but at this point, it breaks down between them because fdr sees a shifting of power as a war is ending. britain is significant. and so when sarah arrives with her father . and they see fdr for the first time. if she senses something has
changed something about him parties that is caused as he had once had been. she writes to her mother wondering whether it would help. she doesn't know. but also perhaps he has moved away a little bit from us. so this is very difficult for churchill to accept. he wants to have a private meeting with fdr before meeting with callan. fdr does not want to do this quite easily allows anna to run interference saying one thing but in reality is exhausted. but also because he wants to build this bond with him with what he had earlier in the war. and through touchy philly politics as he calls it. and in hopes of securing in a post war international order. kathleen: yes and of course as we all know multiple gameplaying
going on. and one of the things is the way that you detail the intelligence operation from the covert actions and the entire conference happenings. and when my favorite things in the book stance when the soviets tried to blackmail him by employing they have to and they have compromising materials on his daughter. sue and so before the conference, he has a meeting with somebody from stalin's government. in moscow they are having tea. and authentically they are to discuss operations and make sure that everything's in order. then he tries to tell him that kathleen's had some sort of inappropriate relationship with some russian man.
which is definitely not true. and herman knows this is not the case and we just kind of dismisses the man. much to's talents chagrin. he is not easily manipulated like that. it's very overtly by that him but not really change over time that it requires a healthy imagination to a display soviets a russian spy deal but what rational people are rational interactions in these countries might be. almost two the level the go to the length to not only the private quarters but also the government because they anticipate that they will go outside. the have confrontations. and they'll go into the garden to make it easier for fdr to move around in his wheelchair craig and they made pathways for
him as well. and stalin also said the doctor to the airfield for the british and american land us to observe from afar that they the rumors that fdr is well. so we wanted an assessment from these doctors paraded to hear whether these rumors are true. the like they go are incredible. in the same time, they're being generous and gracious hosts. were they go to great lengths to showcase russian and soviet cuisine. with these multicourse meals. preparing these luxuries that no one would expect in a war zone targeted and kathleen harrimen throughout the war, and meanwhile they can even use the windows because they were blown out by the shootings. and at one point, elementary would appear. and she didn't know where it
came from, but there it is nonetheless. kind of these weird combinations of several intriguing and espionage. sometimes being put to use mysteriously and other times in order to be more a gracious host, it is very odd. sometimes an amusing moment that i didn't expect myself to be chuckling from these developments. kathleen: exactly i have to say that one of the jewels in the crown of this a fantastic is the dinner party scene that you described on the eighth of february. that particular dinner, as the president and everyone is present. lots of drinking, lots of toasts. try to give us a flavor of the kind of incredible cocktail of
luxury and danger and tensions that were all going on at the same time and dinner. catherine: yes, since taking about two thirds of the way for the conference and is the russian soviet moment to shine to the inspiration of the house that they pride themselves on being . and three daughters, at the conference are invited to attend . from the military leaders were not invited which is very odd targeted and so they arrived at stalin's villa. which i thank you so not accidentally, the home of the mastermind behind the murder . think this talent is made his choice with his selection . in this particular villa for his conference residents. so they have this grand point . that the banquet is also the head of the - yet somebody who had not been met at the dinner.
and he is stalin clinton still have this was. the president wouldn't know absolutely everyone at the conference. for security reasons . and la said that level of government. so still and turned to him and said kind of with, very uncomfortable to say the least. meanwhile kind of leering at the daughters. sarah has not interactions with him for unit 219 she's playing different actresses parts which is very unusual for diplomacy. and she was swapping out her vodka for water. listening is very audit. in kathleen's put on the spot to give a toast and russian on behalf of these three women targeted what it would be like to be at the age of 271 is writing it. she was 27 when she was a delta. and to be that agent give a toast in front of stalin targeted and churchill and fdr.
and she does so with great composure. in a soft diplomacy which is so important and time like this prayed it. kathleen: because it ends at that moment up with a toast by winston churchill gives. and the world unites. your audience unites. and you also describe kathleen harrimen and it is so clever to save the reputation of the three women. what is the high point for her to you think. catherine: absolutely. the chance to go to yalta and to see that person who is invaluable in the father's side of these great moments is something that was a lifelong dream since they were little girls. they wanted to be that person in their father's life, a special person in their father's light. to give the opportunities that was not available to others.
but also its unlimited opportunity in the window is closing as soon as the war and sprayed it so they want to make the most of it while they have this opportunity. but there do recognize this one chapter of any in their lives. and certainly high point of lifelong dream but not to say that they didn't also have very fulfilling moments in their life after. i think the kathleen, it's really that the nation of a partnership that she had dealt with with her father in the beginning she went to work in 1941. when they really are like the callings and she really is an ambassador. it and while he is roosevelt's representatives, he had diverted so much is really not free to express this. he's more eye to eye with churchill and holding that associates in line . so by having kathleen there, the only daughter who could speak russian. and through her he's able to present his own influence and
establish his own voice and tower at the conference in a very soulful and nuanced way. kathleen: that is so interesting. do you have a favorite incidents at the conference for unit. catherine: gosh, so any neat moment. there are a few tough roads. the clearly from the letters and diaries of these women route. one of them were sarah is standing with her father in the military leaders when they see over the black sea, something in the water. the bird is attacking from above it becomes this metaphor almost of the democracy versus the soviet collectivization. in any ways sarah and the way that she is very astute and just a real knack for political understanding. another favorite moment is when
throughout the conference in any moments for a lack of bathrooms leads to sunlight moments and humor and a very tense days including this talents conference room to find toilet as guards don't realize that he's done that they thought it was kidnapped. as result quickly. but there are on the fringes. it is very entertaining at these hours of talking about this over the future point in the conference room . kathleen: your writing by the time where these unelected members and political families are interesting but there also playing an important role. it has to do about the nature that they are able to do this with the daughters. that they have the sort of access. they have like an authority to act. which sort of these to a
particular question. one is an aspect of women in women's history this kind of unique to women. the second thing is, it is funny to celebrate these unelected family members and their roles even though in a democracy, should there be a place on family members hanging around. catherine: t first point, you're very familiar with women in unique roles and political situations throughout history. they're not necessarily the people making the decisions of the table, the decisions made in the conversations that take place in any conversations for that. is what comes out of one's leader so any people often including women and women have had unique roles in the
political process for centuries in ways that are not the conventional but devoid of power. i think that is something that you illustrate so beautifully. so yes, 90 having a seat at the table but i think to think about these different kinds of power that women have had throughout history especially in politics. normally these three women but others who are active at this time. and now women have seen in table inform policy that they worked with out power entirely. so they were more creative and often kind of invaded . that playing these vitally important roles in this exciting to be able to shine the light on this that story. and also to family members. certainly this is a question that goes on today where families have become part of the
political conversation more than any time in history. and with the various families and to some extent, other families. we've accepted some degree that the first spouse will have an official role in an administration. but we really have not defined with the appropriate role is for the children targeted so had to think about this for quite some time because the previous and ministrations had very young children in the white house. and so the children being involved in the policies for the last four years. and historically, children being involved in dating back far with her sons being a secretary at a sword. this was more about the logistic role in not necessarily a policy role. and i'm sure certain first children have had brief political and policy expertise and perhaps will be in the
future. but that may be is not true . just being related to the president is not necessarily a credential to be at the table. in the three daughters were not in the conference room . they did not have the experience to be there. they were very bright and capable but their experiences elsewhere. nasa didn't have security plans for it . somewhere without power but they were not taking part in the negotiations themselves actively. this talent was very different. they had meetings other world leaders. instead of between the daughters and someone like the trump children and their roles in actual policymaking processes. kathleen: is fascinating. thank you. we have a few minutes left to open up to questions. you just have so any fascinating things freedom interested to know what they may be asking.
>> this is been fantastic. there are questions from the audience that i will post you now. considering how difficult it was to get together, when churchill pick that particular location. catherine: yes . do so at this point in the war, still in recognizes the power shifted afraid to his western allies needs him more than he needs them. his boots on the ground for the army across eastern europe . looking to him for cooperation things like polish sovereignty. an entry into the bourne pacific . silky cold war cards. it is also afraid to leave the soviet union because he doesn't want to leave security apparatus any also have the fear flying . because his doctors advised him against traveling. and meanwhile fdr is dying. so there is some irony there. but churchill and fdr feels is so important to have this meeting in person fdr's trying
to build on this relationship rated churchill was a great advocate for meeting in person. and stalin says that churchill must be the holy spirit because he flies around so much. kathleen: how important it was for each of them they believe to meet in person. and this inhospitable location but also the power that stalin held. >> nancy webster asked, did sarah arana have any impact in choosing a father's minds but in the important issues about changing it. catherine: so the role that delta was less about advocating for certain policy decisions . and more about kind of seeing a counselor and a person who could help put what was in a very and emotionally charged time there were lots of frustrations.
in general the thoughts and the productive mind of reasoning to put your best for forwarding the conferences but sarah actually heard his relationship in the capacity as an aide in an advisor. this stems back gotta . and just prior to the general election that summer she writes to him about the political excitement in the country and why she believes the people are not replying to him in the way that he hoped that he would pray that he has about to win the war. and yes there is this anti- churchill sentiment, not because they don't like him personally but more because they sacrificed so much. in recognition for them to make life a little bit easier for the work. so there political savvy and understanding the feelings of domestic population are really valuable to him.
and back to yalta. >> richard cohen asked, did you find yourself that synthesizing with most. sue and i certainly can't answer that is a favorite child. [laughter]. i think each of them in different ways. and being the same age as kathleen, it's intriguing. to put myself in their footsteps. ... ... my heart broke for her for more than anyone because she is in a difficult position thanks to her
father who asked her to do something they don't appear should ask a child. perhaps there's interference on his behalf, perhaps it hampered the objective of the alliance. she did it with intention and it allowed her to be in that position so the relationship is complicated and i have no respect for him. there are more interesting thought provoking questions about the relationship and the family that are complicated times that people wouldn't otherwise do. >> lizzie thanks you for this,
her daughters kept in touch, did they maintain their project? >> i'd love to say their best of friends, i think the relationships aren't disclosed among the public, there in the author's representatives. sarah and kathleen's were very good friends before. they spent a lot of time in london in the were celebrating her 24th birthday. years later when they have the panel, she's a widow and they get married and the children remain intertwined for many years, sarah and anna didn't
maintain regular friendship but they did experience a very similar moment after the war, each one was deeply affected by the war and they knew more about that than mental health. there's this touching moment after her husband dies and anna experienced something similar. someone in that position where there is scrutiny from the public so they certainly have a shared experience which is a big moment in their life. >> how did you learn that churchill liked brooklyn was common knowledge? >> he will wrote a wonderful book and many enthusiasts will
recognize that, there are some great pictures of him and everyone i could think of, he was an avid player in all of that. >> was asked if you're working on a new book. >> the irony of covid is that it's giving us more time and we may have thought we would have but treading thing is that they remain close so i have an idea what i would like to write next but can't actually get into the archives yet so what i think will be in the story will be, until i see the sources because
when i was writing this book, i thought it would be more about this than when i started. i want to not close off my mind from something like that, perhaps revealing itself to me when i do get into the archives. >> going to follow up on this, would you care to tell us the subject? >> i'll keep it to myself for now. [laughter] >> an anonymous question asked, what's the biggest challenge of writing this book? >> a lot of the great challenges is writing about world war ii, they are a special body of work and it can be incredibly
overwhelming in this literature that exists. last year, there is 1000 and churchill and those in undertaking and no one could ever read everything written about this time. in a lifetime so for me, it was helpful to focus on this in particular during the lives of these individuals and beyond but since that focus, it helped streamline research and also focusing on primary forces and things that figures had written about events, they were so valuable. with these primary sources, i'm fortunate that these involve
overlapping themes. it is overwhelming and the didn't quite know what to expect as i was doing. i didn't realize how overwhelming it could be in the thick of it. >> we have time for just a couple more if it's all right with you. >> of course. >> by the end of the conference, did anna believe stalin would follow through? >> there's a lot of double thinkings that emerge out of including churchill and fdr, optimistically was about these developments and extremists in its signaling confidence that they don't have entirely, especially churchill in his conversations that reveal more of the true apprehension and
what he's saying publicly. in the case of anna, i think she shared her father's hope that he'd be a man of his word and the bond they had would be something that would convince them, it is tricky. there are some wonderful writings where they would go on and was the u.s. embassy in moscow and they are stepping on them and saying it won't make any difference at least with
this obligation to try. you can see the writing on the wall and i do think stalin respected him enormously especially since he was paralyzed and had admiration from the american public and they realized he was paralyzed but even if it was contrary to the interests of the soviet union, i think perhaps anna had a review about the commitment of the soviet union also informed policy, some of the lack of experience shows that while the other two daughters were skeptical. >> kathleen and anna have letters or diaries about you? >> yes kathleen wrote the
letters to her sisters and former governors during war and churchill when she moved to moscow and for her family, she never spoke about the war and her remarkable time in london and moscow and it's not any more important than anyone else and went on to what she had after she died in her family discovered she had these letters from the war which are remarkable. you could see young woman coming of age during this time so i am grateful to the family for allowing me to see that. anna has letters to her husband and her children and there at the fdr library.
anna did keep a diary which is what she normally did in their confidential between them. she didn't have interest in writing after the war but she did want to report things in greater detail because she knew she was living through a significant moment in history. she shared with her family and her family's history for years to come. >> back. i am fortunately bush had been through moscow who did the women last year and the year before so i hope we will see it on the screen, big or small in the near
future. >> thank you to everyone who joined. before we sign off, do you have any word. >> thank you so much government this evening and for hosting. thank you for reading the book and having this conversation evening. it's great to have conversation with you this evening. >> any member of the audience, it is fantastic read. >> thank you. >> we are featuring book tv programs is a preview of what's available every weekend on c-span2. tonight, we feature current affairs and essays.
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