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tv   Henry Louis Gates The Black Church  CSPAN  August 18, 2021 4:05pm-5:06pm EDT

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>> afterwards is available as a podcast, to listen visit c-letter - man .org/podcast or search cspan afterwards under podcast app. watch this and all previous afterwards interviews and just click the afterwards button near the top of the page. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ >> it is my great pleasure as i
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major lower history and reading history to welcome our guests today, henry louis gates would let me call him professor gates. he would not let me, he is the historians historian. such an honor for me to be on with you today and to lead you through a discussion around your new book. "the black church", this is her story and song, the background on professor henry louis gates these the professor university and director of the center for african american researcher at harvard and obviously we all know him, and award-winning filmmaker peabody award winner and he has done so much to get history and particularly the history of african-american people in this country and in this world, out to to the public
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and he is the man. i could not be happier to talk to you and specifically especially about this subject in this book. and i would like to if it's okay, skip i would like to start with looking's at history. and i l would like you to look t it from what i thought was ellen's yearbook that i have never really seen before and i would like you to ask you to look at it, could you just look at this report us, the black church through the lens of mothering manual church. >> i would be happy to. i think were going to show a clip from the series hardly. >> yes we are. >> okay and then we will go to the next one. >> this is our story, ♪ ♪ ♪♪
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this is our song ♪♪ with my savior, all the day long ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ >> that is great. >> in the name of jesus today oh god, we are>> rising. >> black church was more than just a spiritual home, is the epicenter of black life and out of the game out our institutions and the black church, give people a sense of value and belonging it and within us and i don't know how we could've survived without it. to tell the stories of americans. the black church helped us to withstand the segregation's.
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>> they're willing to be beaten for democracy. >> we had great preachers come there so many. >> we servant jesus who flips over the tables pretty. >> i left out otis because - 19. >> did you think that you are going to get one amen out of them. i learned how to see them in their eyes. [laughter] ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ >> i would argue that the "the black church" is the first black theater, the music is everything. gospel music is the presentation and attacks about the imagine t. >> entertainment should not be in the church. we think the preacher does. ♪ ♪♪
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♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ the african-american church is 80 - 90 percent women. with the leadership is 8090 percent male. eighty - 90 percent, there's an awful price to pay when you say that your loving person pretty. >> as you say you were born this white, then you're saying god you are a liar. >> we are a testament to the witness and the grace of god. everything the world has tried to kill us and we are still here. >> i ain't made no mistakes. >> the place where our people main away out of nowhere. slaves from which our souls can look back and wonder how we got older. ♪ ♪♪
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♪ ♪♪ we call it the church. >> wow, the me just to say to any of our listeners and watch her today and if you noticing the series, you need to see that series. it's in tandem with the book, is just so powerful, and so sorry to get ahead of myself, can't wait to start talking to you. when i was thinking is just like looking at the history of the black church to the mother emmanuelle and you look backwards from 1816 and then forward it to the point of 2015 and there's a lot going on there. you beautifully bring this out of the book.
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>> thank you and that was one of the leitmotif in the book and if i forget, i want you to ask me about the three black preachers in the building trying around them. but mother, let's go to charleston south carolina, south carolina was the majority of the black state, and louisiana and mississippi majority black states and ground zero for the black community during reconstruction was charleston, south carolina and georgia alabama and they were almost the majority black rated the zero concentration the black power and as representative sitting the film, and those six southern states and that was true even
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before thee civil war. south carolina's nickname was negro country because there's so full of black people because of the economy and rights and the islands in the expertise of the africans in the blacks to south carolina and there was also a sizable black community and we know that the ame church, the first black denomination formed in philadelphia. i richard allen and is formally born in 1816. well in charleston, there's the manual church in 1822, came man was accused of plotting an insurrection in charleston. how to get free, he got free listen to this, this is one of
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the ironies of american history and the complexity of slavery. he was an enslaved man in 1799, he plays the lottery, he plays the lottery like you played the glutton for grocery store anyone $1500. and you 600 of us $1500 to buy his freedom from the so-called owners. and so after 1800, he was free. in 1922 is very prominent man, accused we don't know if it is really an insurrection but he was accused of leading this plot of insurrection in charleston and is found guilty and of course he was executed printed in the church was completely destroyed. now that was enormous hesensitivity is not even the right word but there was paranoia on the slaveowners because the patient had defeated the greatest in the army.
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and when napoleon became emperor off and wantedhe to reinstitute slavery on the island, before it became. >> and it particular brutal form of slavery. the average lifespan on a sugar plantation was seven years. and that was the richest colony in the history of the world. and because of sugar, sugar was like crack. they literally use that analysis. with the students cannot afford sugar. it was a luxury product predict innings in queens only the wealthy people could you sugar before the new world opened up and so could be mass-produced to become one of the world's first commodity product and also usede
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booster the working class and give them more energy so they could be exploited. some antislavery's figures in england boycotted sugar because the new it was a product with blood dripping all over it. still ahead sheehan defeated napoleon when napoleon sent his brother-in-law leclair black in 18 oh one to try to meet the dude slavery which and abolished in 1794. and then under the french assembly and then you know, you know the details. and he died a horrible death in prison in france but they led the haitians to freedom. so the americans were paranoid about slave insurrections. so whether or not denmark was plotting, he was found guilty and executed and they destroyed this church. so cut to end of the civil war
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and there were all these black people in south carolina and richard harvey came and was navy minister in brooklyn basically he put himself to charleston because the ame church have been allowed to prosper in the confederacy and in 90 percent of all black people raised in 1910, lived and the former confederate states, in the south before the great migration. soatn they knew that was grounds for growth. and from ground zero had to be charleston in the first thing, that richard harvey thought of was rebuild this church and who did they hire as the architect to build it, denmark the sun, you can't make that up for it is like poetry, the gift of god. so richard harvey came becomes a
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major figure in the renaissance and reconstruction. he starts his own newspaper and then he will run for congress and be elected in 1872 and in 76. so the third reading the story the family is still in and dylan did not choose mother emmanuelle by accident. no because it was a heart of reconstruction. and i think the last interview we believe with the referent and that he was a prayer meeting and with eight other i call them the saints, and dylan wrote sensibly for an hour and then you know, people that night and mother emmanuel greatest that completes
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the art of mother emmanuel church read but i was reconstruction and black men, black men in the former confederacy god the right to vote because of the reconstructionac act three years before the 15th amendment was ratified in 1870 and black men in the south got the right to vote in the summer of 1867. so the devoted 80 percent of the black man eligible to vote and register to vote in the summer of 1867 they call it the first freedom vote. in 1868, they voted, cast their ballot. and for you •-ellipsis grant, and he won overwhelmingly but he only one the popular vote by just over 300,000 folks. so you could say is black people
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say they had elected the president of the united states through the popular vote. and they said the most important point and for the reconstruction in the manifestation of power through the ballot, it was in charleston, south carolina and in that first reconstruction election, the house of representatives was majority black speaker of the house will black, secretary of state was black rated the secretary of treasury was black. and in the race, probably the most racist film ever made. we tended to think that it was about slavery but it wasn't, his about reconstruction predict and the evils of getting the blackman the right to vote. member the famous scene were black men in the legislature. and they had their feet up.
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they were sucking on chicken bones and they all got up and they say that this was made legal. [laughter] is terrible. it was terrible, it was horrible. so thank you for asking that question and we can see the power of the church in politics. and often, christianity, has been accused, religion the being the opioid of people. and as i write, people forget the rest of this, there's more to thatt quote. but for african-american christians, they never were allowed to be political because the black church starting with the ame church was born in politics and as a protest against anti- black racism because richard allen and jones
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were pretending that the methodist church in philadelphia, and integrated church in a headset in the back and jim crow in effect before this.rc and jones was praying and one of the white use and they tell him to move to the black section. and later the get up and walk out the form their own church and joe's forms the first black episcopal church in st. thomas and richard allen forms the ama church. the bethel church and then it becomes its own denomination 1816 and he becomes the first bishop. >> i was going to point out horribly that he wasn't a failure but i just wanted to listen. >> the gators and episcopalians. it is based on episcopal church
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in maryland. and they are from mayor maryland and you know and my mother's family, they were baptist in west virginia 25 miles away. do you know why so many black episcopal churches are called saint phillips. >> the ethiopian predict. >> yeah, ethiopian eunuch to was representing the queen of marrow way. this is a real clean and or title and he was the treasurer and is reading the book of isaiah. and so since there's no other black figures in the testimony testify, this so if you see that this black church pretty. >> are the big one.
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[laughter] and is also it pretty. >> yes. >> it was simoneau sarid. and sometimes even in north african pretty to be sort of claim that predict. >> yes that is true. >> select stay with politics and the quest for social justice. you write in the book and really, i mean, just read this one little bit from page 193. your writing about the wake of george floyd. if you that in the shattering times, the rising generation demanding that the voices be heard, the dehumanization of black bodies, that this be the last of the black church once again is a challenge to respond with leadership and grace resiliency and inspired action.
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that is beautiful writing. >> thank you predict. >> so let's talk about the church and social justice movements over time. >> one of the point that i wanted to make was how political the black church had been from the very beginning. president douglas, is thought to chhave lived in a sensibly spontaneously island nantucket island and antislavery society 1941. if it's freighted douglas have been speaking at the ame church between 1838 in 1841. so he had been any taught sunday school in baltimore. so he had been practicing already in the black church. he was very religious of course. in his rival they begin the big battle the national negro convention in 1943 about whether they should encourage enslaved
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people in the south to rebel. in garnet is a presbyterian minister and of course both of them are leading abolitionists. and then richard - him as an example of the 16 black man elected to congress between 1870 and 1977 when reconstruction and this and three for ministers. and eric my friend an expert on this at the 2000 and were either elected or appointed to office during reconstruction 243 of them were ministers. where did that come from pretty generall sherman and savanna meets with 20 black ministers under the leadership and he says, what he people want. this is after sherman's march to the state, what he people want.
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and they said, they had a stenographer there. and they said we want land and left alone and they understood that landed was powerful if you accumulated wealth and you transmitted well. and they understood, is the property. so they had an intuitive understanding of the importance of property in germany, couple of days later, reallocating compensated slant of the enslavers. and also to the inside and that was the first 48. in that radical land distributional and proposition came out of meeting with 20 black ministers and because of the 20th century, the faces of the civil rights movement in the north of one of them certainly was adam clayton jr, and his
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father, the pastor of the baptist church, 12000 members rated and then of course the face of the civil rights movement in the south after 1955 would be reverend doctor martin luther king jr. jesse jackson the first black man who at least a chance of doing it. a serious run. and of course jesse was minister. in doctor king's lt. and mayor of atlanta. he was a minister and we can take it up to january 5th, the election of senator ralph warnock who has the ebenezer baptist church away he is the minister there. so because of the site again since i've racism and white supremacy was unrelenting.
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laughing christians by and large could not avoid being political pretty so our ancestors were deliberating at its center celebration was both after one's death, deliberates. black in christianity was a redemptive force for nation's original sentence was slavery. it is in a completely different identity than the sister died nominations. whether it was the methodist church where the baptist church. and i'm ashamed to say, the anglos were kind of slow in accepting the baptism of black people as you all know brady in 1680, morgan, anglo read the book of the negro advocate and he said these people are human
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beings. whether africans real human beings are not there was a question and i know that it sounds hyperbolic but is true. and he said that i know that human beings because they can read and write and because they can laugh and only human human beings can read write and laugh and he is refuting the idea that others would demand the freedoms. ... ... what most of us don't know and this is important to remember, the great awakening unfolds, that is the big, almost likely american protestant reformation
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in the unfolds 1740, 1750 and 59% enslaved african ancestors arrived in the u.s. after 1750. we tend to forget that so methodists and baptists for black people with open arms. this was long before the formation of the national practice. the church of christ between 1895 in 1897, both of which fire within the black community but white denominations welcomed the methodists and baptists and start welcoming african people into the church and the great awakening around 1750 and you know, until eventually the methodist church for example the northern and
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southern methodist church over slavery, the question of abolition and i find that fascinating. when i wrote that line about the last lynching, i thought that maybe, just maybe, hope against hope that maybe george floyd would be the last person murdered unjustly by the police but we know that not the way has turned out. >> sadly. let me take you back to something you were talking about, meeting german. he right in the book about another famous meeting with black ministers, lincoln for the issuance of emancipation proclamation, can you talk about? >> august 1862 and abraham o
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lincoln sends a man in favor of the relocation of pre-black people out of the united states mexico or back to africa and he gathers five black men who ministers to come to the white house and he says he wants them to be the leaders of the movement basically to deport all the free, to lead them out. he says your people and our people ever, it's your fault we middle of the civil war, august 1862 and there's no report -- >> the north was losing at that time. >> the north was losing big time. he said lincoln obviously knew was going to have to freebies
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black people and whether -- he set until the end of 1862, lincoln still, until through november, lincoln was still entertaining colonization but you could remove these people, their present by thomas jefferson in the state of virginia presence of white people. >> i hate to interrupt but that was the state of virginia, that's a piece of work. it's bad. >> he even says orangutans in africa mate with african women. you can't get more racist than that last month remember who were telling this about making the case that africans were human beings who were members of the human community thomas
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jefferson put that in there. he doesn't say it as directly as morgan godwin is refuting from what he says we all know orangutans for african women meeting the top of the animal kingdom on the great chain, or at the bottom of the mint family on the great chain that's why reading and writing is important by everybody reviews the book because she was the first person african descent to publish a book of poetry english and everybody wrote about that. benjaminro franklin, visited her when they were in london, she had to go to london to get the book published because nobody believed africa was strong enough. voltaire wrote a letter saying i guess they can write poetry
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george washington in the middle of the revolution, has her brought to his headquarters, midnight in myev kitchen harvard square, washington headquarters about a block and a half away, he was brought to his headquarters just to he could see who had written the book. >> it to see this new thing. >> yes, this phenomena. like talking animals in effect. i'm sorry, i lost -- >> talking about lincoln's meeting. >> oya, so then news of this the black community, frederick douglass does not. [laughter] because douglas had said no, one of his arguments was no, this is our home. africans anymore, we are not
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going to sierra which had been set up for read africans by the british on ships africa slave trade was banned to the british colonies in 1807 and 1808 and by the area was set up by the american colonization 1826. read african-americans to go back, they were from liberia and by and large, very few ancestors from what is liberia. 25% of ancestors, an amazing database which you could look up right now or you could look it up under the slave trade database about 25% of ancestors came from gambia of the muslim
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and about 25% came from angola. one of the amazing things that i've learned was about 20%, these stories argue about this, i settled on 20% and not by linden and great friends of brian and jim. 20% of our enslaved ancestors were practicing muslim make on the books i did not know that until i got on the book. >> i tell the story of mohammed and i interviewed one and he left behind a manuscript in arab, instructions on this and
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the first black churches, there are about four churches and argue which one was the first black church. the first african baptist church was formed in 1773. the language from harvard to interpret some scripts engraved, carved into one of the pews. he looked at it and said its arabic. [laughter] is a a sister in the kitchen, i could hear yelling thank the curse of hebrew. [laughter] 20% of my ancestors were muslim, practicing muslims when they landed in what's now the united states in the percent that we don't know were also baptized catholics because the king of condo congo in the year 1491, 1n
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the ocean blue, he converted his kingdom and he was no dummy, he undertook power. he said trained as a priest and became the first bishop, he came back to the kingdom of condo congo and became the first bishop, islam reached west africa five attempts entry and we know that by the 12th century islam was widely practiced in what's now senegal so absolutely no question about this fact all you could think of the first century black people and slaves in british and north america traditional african religion
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yoruba religion course was a powerful force more particularly in cuba and brazil, about 3% of ancestorser were months or 20% islamic and unknown roman catholics in the majority practiced ancestral traditional african religion think of it, the anglicans were dominant not levering africans joy africans christianity, worshiping their own ground, forming a line from melted religion and the anglicans will the baptist really welcomed black people in. my uncle is a methodist minister, he was trained and i remember he told me when james
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theology came out, he was a minister, his church, he said that christianity i is different than right christianity and i wasn't into studying about the black church at that time, i had been raised in the church, as you know from the book, when i was 12 and then converted when i was 14 when episcopal church much to his relief because he thought the episcopal church is the true church but i joined a very conservative methodist church when he joined the church, he couldn't play cards or dance or play rock 'n' roll and i loved to dance i had to
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move all that, i couldn't go to movies and i joined the choir and i read the bible put me in a good place for the sats, the text of african-american literature as a king james bible, song of solomon, i witness. my beloved. i did best because as you know my mother was very sick and she told me one sunday night i looked out and my parents were endressed they were taking my mother to the hospital and she cried and told me she was going to die and i couldn't believe it. i'm so close to my mother and i went upstairs to my bedroom i got on my knees and prayed and prayed and set my mother live, i
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will give my soul to you and three days later, my mother came home and i looked in the mirror and set up zero. [laughter] the following saturday i hitchhiked, there were so few black people in eastern west fevirginia, i grew up halfway between pittsburgh and washington. my family has lived for 200 years, don't think of it as a hotbed of african-american culture so that's where my people were from. we had one minister, two churches, one in the county seat 5 miles away, they would have their service saturday afternoon sunday morning service was in piedmont so saturday afternoon i hitchhiked, i didn't think about being hurt or anything, that's how innocent life was thin and i hitchhiked 5 miles to kaiser and
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echo to the service and there were about black people, average age was about 80 #then me. the minister, reverend ralph, ralph munroe at runtime the service that anybody who wants to give their life tohe christ, the call to the altar, i stood up he said to me skippy, the bathroom is back there. he thought i had to go to the bathroom. i said no he said what? it was very moving. me, there were five erquestions and i said yes, i do or i answered in the affirmative and everyone cried and i cried and then i hitchhiked back home it was saturday night those days, there were three channels from pbs, abc and nbc we were
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watching run, smoke or whatever it was about 9:00, 8:30 p.m., 5:00 i decided my mother and father my brother, five years older, and i said that until then. well, anything you having to your prospects and aiko what? i never ever hold them, they never figured out why. the reason i switched to my father's church when i was 14 because the people, i was worshiping, they were really good people. my mom was very religious, they were strict they were
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fundamental, adam and eve and we were descended from they believe they were federalist, they read the bible literally and i had the same mind then, i was 14 years old. i knew about evolution and the world have been seven days and i didn't want to be critical so my brother came home from dental school and set had enough of this i'm taking to see you a movie. it was a matinee but i thought was a hard night or whatever, 1964 whatever movie came out and i enjoyed it so much i saw a bowl of lightning. [laughter] and then i decided to convert to the episcopal church because it was much more liberal and fit my
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growing intellect thatt was the right thing for me to do but the two years i spent i get the best i could. it was good discipline and i learned a lot about spirituality and a lot about myself. people often ask me, why did we make this and why do we write this now? in a way it was because i wanted to make tribute to that era, the tradition, the oldest most continuous and most important institution in the history of african-american people. think about it, he saw that when oprah said what would we have done the church kept us from going crazy. we learned to defer gratification and i'm not talking about this from one
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generation from the last africans to arrive in the united states in 1807 we want free as a people until the ratification of the 13th amendment in 1865 so all those who generations had to believe they would one day be free, educated talking to each other in some way they couldn't even imagine. my great-great-grandson going to harvard. [laughter] they go, you crazy. boy, you crazy. they were to be africans who marry a white american and their son going to be president of the united states. [laughter]
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a pot liquor. [laughter] there are people who believe in the and they learn to believe through the church. the other thing i realized was that the church was a laboratory, the african people endemically because we represented about 50 ethnic groups from call down to congo but overwhelmingly between xenical and the congo, it was a laboratory for the production of white culture for black music, one of the greatest, the composer came to the united states 1892, 1893 he said the only original american contribution in world civilization first the music of former slaves was spiritual, and i haven't announced it yet but
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the next series we y are doing s about other black social networks in the way we replicated the world behind the veil and like -- >> fraternities, sororities. >> yes the divine nine which vice president kamala harris a member of alpha -- but also the national medical association. >> national bar association. >> all of those black institutions which model existence on the denominations of the black church. after that, i'me going to the history of gospel music. >> so they are going to get mad at me. supposed to do q&a. >> one thing i had to talk to you about, go to q&a i'm going
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to close by asking you to tell me your favorite gospel that we will come back to. >> you can ask me now, you do whatever you want. >> let me ask this, what did the great migration mean for the racial makeup of the united states northern flat churches? >> that is a great question. remember i said 1910 from 90% of the african-american people lived in the south. after 1910 black people began to migrate to the north, the majority of black people never lived in the north and reverse migration starts in 1970 but it came very close. the percentage, it was more or less balanced, you can backtrack
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me, i don't remember the 1970 black people started moving back to the south in part because of air-conditioning. >> no really, that is fair. >> because appearance of industrial jobs from the urban north drunk them to the north in the first place during world war i so it meant two things to results large black denominationsng formed in th city, the northern cities because 90% of people and when they moved to the north -- the other thing is the last reconstruction leaves the house of representatives in 1901 gives a beautiful speech the next document elected congress oscar
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1929, why? because black people moved to mississippi and alabama to chicago and concentrated on the south side they had the right to vote because of ratification of the 15th amendment. >> and i have the numbers. >> they have the numbers so they had been disenfranchised from the plan in 1890 from each of the former confederate states i'll give an example how effective it was, they've been disenfranchised through state constitutions that were voter repression to pull taxes and three tests, but they could ever pass i'll tell you how dramatic it was in louisiana one of the majority black face the civil war in 1890 and 1898 there were 130 lachman.
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by 1904 after the ratification of the new louisiana state constitution, there were 1342 black men registered to vote. in effect, that is amazing from one 30,000 in six years from one 30,000, 1300 and 42 so the north northwest the growth of the black church and the growth of black political power which is my congressman john lewis, another ordained minister beaten on the bridge from a whole was a sergeant for? voting rights because that was the part of black power. the movie brings up a nation based on the novel and it he says the worst thing that ever happened in the history of civilization was not to defeat
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the south by the north, it was giving the formerly enslaved the right to vote it was a reversal of all that was beautiful and true in the history of civilization, it's an amazing passage, he said that was the pretrial that was the turning civilization by these this people in the north. >> it would almost be hard to believe if it were happening not. >> yes impact by make it before this on reconstruction because i want people to realize what is happening now is a repeat of the rollback reconstruction. reconstruction is a. in 1865 in 1870 when they experienced maximum amount of freedom 13th, 14th and 15th amendment and it was all
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rollback by the.nd called redemption that what we saw with the rise of donald trump the rise of the tea party and thank god donald trump was denied a second term because we, being black people, women, gay people, trans people, our rights would have been unjust. we never finished our discussions about the five ministers. >> i guess. >> let me wrap that up. we can, as you said the crucial thing, the north is being defeated. when the newspapers printed the fact that we can in the black ministers of the white house to encourage them to leave the free community t out, to emigrate to
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africa or latin america and douglas and all the other black abolitionist go crazy, thinking then released the preliminary emancipation proclamation in september of 1862 and he still had colonization in his message to congress, that's what i was reading from his book. december of 1862 when the emancipation is in its vinyl form, there's no motion of colonization and addict that lachman will have the right to bear arms fight for the union lincoln himself says that withoutln he calls it in a lettr in 1864, he calls him is black wire. without his black wires, the north would not have one and in the last speech he gives, he says he's decided to become
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convinced that certain black men, not all lachman should have the right to vote he said 200,000, he did mention the figure but we know there were 200,000 lachman, and in the navy together, he said my black warriors, in effect and the intelligent we don't know how many negroes there were and truthfully, you could say that speech but to his death because john brooks booth was on the grounds of the white house listening when we can was next to him and said that's it, meaning he assassinated abraham lincoln, lincoln underwent major transformation about mental capacity and their right to bear
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arms fight in part his friendship, mike probably john david light yes, he knows more about frederick douglass, like this two years ago. ... and the documentary rights to his book that will be aired on hbo next year. >> one final question. how can we implement the book the black church into the k-12 curriculum? >> we talked about this. my dear friend who needs no introduction to this audience.
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he's been working on the reconstruction curriculum and a curriculum about the black church and he's a hard person to say no to. i would like your input about that a coast what i did come i wanted to give a shout-out to my editor at england random house who is in the audience. whatr i did was found away to tell black history through the mechanism of "the black church." so it's like turning a telescope around so instead of putting the church and the history of african-americans i turn it around and talk about black people through the history of the church and through the dominations. oh remember i was going to tell you but the triangular structure.
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>> yes. >> he's born in 1825 born free in what is now west virginia in the county in virginia and daniel payne was born in 1811 and charles and he was born free. he was a member of the brown society because if you were not too dark you aren't black or brown he becomes bishop of the church. he believed that black people should sit erect dancing the hymn. none of this gospel music and the holy ghost, none of that. that after the civil war he goes down to charleston and he's proselytizing throughout the south for the ame church and he goesyt to a traditional black church and people are getting the holy ghost and he jumps out ofol the pulpit and he says you
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are worshiping the devil and you have to stop t t that. i love that story and then turner is born free in washington d.c.. slavery is legal in washington d.c.. he is born in 1834 and he's a chaplain of one of the few black chaplains for the union army during the civil war and he becomes a member the ame church in 1880s and he goes into liberia and south africa to proselytize for the ame church in the 181880s and 1890s and he comes back and after the founding meeting of the baptist convention in 1895 he gives a speech and he says god was black and people couldn't believe it.
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that's amazing. when i read that i went wow this is 1895 and the national baptist convention one of my favorite stories is about reverend boyd and reverend boyd in 1896 formed the national baptist publishing company and the citizens savings bank as part of his denomination in elton 1908 and they were all under the national baptist convention. isn't that amazing? >> that is amazing and the institution of the black church just for one denomination alone. >> they are asking us to wrap things up. we are just getting started. i have an hour or more and me but thank you and thank you for the book and thank you for all
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the work you do. thank you for everything you have taught and everything you have modeled. you are just a delight in the black >> i can't thank you enough and i want to thank all of our guests were attending and being on with us today. go buy the book. >> don't just buy the book, read the book. a recording of this conversation will be available on the web site. go to gilder and thank you all for attending and god bless you. >> god bless you. thank you my brother. goodnight everyone. >> goodnight everyone.


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