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tv   Parag Khanna Move - The Forces Uprooting Us  CSPAN  November 24, 2021 7:04pm-8:02pm EST

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wing evangelicals are also confused with the spirit of antichrist and has other kinds of heresies and one that dismisses cosmetic in the aspect of the gospel do not suit this agenda. >> for the rest of his discussion online, at booktv.org and search for mr. hendrix name for the title of his book and, christians against christianity using the search box at the top of the page read. >> get cspan on the go, watch the day's biggest political events live, or on demand at any time anywhere on her new mobile video at cspan now, access talk highlights, and listen to cspan radio and podcasts all for free, download cspan now, today. >> and i would like to welcome parag khanna, and the release of
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his new book the forces and compelling look at the powerful global forces them because bbillions of us to move geographically over the next decade pretty ushering in an era era of radical change and is a founder and managing partner and a global strategic advisory firm that specializes in data driven it visualizations pretty and is internationally best known author of sevenhi books includig the future of asians as well as the trilogy of books on the future of world order beginning with the second world followed by how to run the world and concluding with the next geography and is named of one of esquire 75 most influential people of the 21st century and featured in smart list. a phd from the school of economics and holds a bachelors and masters for the school of
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foreign services spirit georgetown university and he will be joining conversation today with michael hearst, the senior correspondent and is editor of foreign policy and previously he wased national editor for political magazine and is author h of two books capitol offense at washington's wiseman turn america's future owner wall street and at war with ourselves and why merkin is squandering his chances toe buid a better world. so now, please join me in welcoming parag khanna and michael hirsch predict. >> thank you. and thank you to those of you who are here with us. we hope to have an invigorating conversation i would like to start out by saying this is a very bold and brave book to be publishing it at this juncture in a sense that the conventional
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wisdom at least in washington where ito am, is really focusedn the idea that we are globalizing and that zeno phobia has sort of taken hold of the national conversation and that without pandemic it, we are looking at are more at the closed borders and you in your book, you go directly opposite way. and you are saying that we need to prepare ourselves for mass migration and perhaps i think the overarching idea in the book that it seems to me is as you say, it has become an old geography is destiny that is not the case you say, mobility, not geography is really her destiny so he talkedny about that. and why you're arguing this direction now. >> was her thank you so much ed will he delighted to be here
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thank you politics and prose bookstore. in his early conversations has always been really exciting in terms of teasing out the pieces and you pack a lot into that perceptions of the globalization of migration and the pandemic, u.s. politics let me untangle that so migration is part of globalization but not all of it inte the mood in washington whatever it may be, does not always necessarily correspond to reality the rest of the world may not follow even in the united states and after s all, wear a mask migration society and we always have been i would ilsay, argued always will be que frankly and you know just to jump the gun, must be clear that as you saw the most recent senses that was just released, right under trump's nose american became more diverse, more latino, more mixed-race and so forth so we will not in terms of political polarization but in terms of demographics, the back ten years from now say that
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trump who so we have to acknowledge the mass migration is a feature of global society the feature of western and civilizational history because modern life on the trend that is not reversed at all and if you look ate canada's immigration policy and germany's innovation policy, even written by the way, it's easier to migrate into the united kingdom today thante it s before like right now as we speak, that's how and that is a legal fact and even in places that do become the very embodiment of the notion of xenophobic and order opposing anti-immigrant populism, guess what, mask migration is alive and well, if you at the biden policy, but that aside and then the pandemic it, and finish the book before the pandemic but i had plenty of time to update it and it only strengthened the argument in many ways and first of all this technology that the lockdown was thet most
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significant coordinated thing in the world, governments have never come together on anything and it was you might say the opposite direction for closed every border in the world - but people moved to the mid- home a so the largest movement of people in the world, was in the year 2020 was a couple of million in salvation it construction workers and migrant laborers in the gulf countries which is you know the majority of the population are the persian golf, indian they moved home in the not only to the mid- home, they also moved much as to the cities but to farms and there was a factor in the state a very 44 state in india not far from where i was born and because people decided to become farmers again the agriculture faindustry driving there so the movement within the country's personal is a big theme in the book the vast majority is migration within the country is
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not talk about that as well again, doesn't register in washington that alone just mass migration is china india africa, no, m didn't make it less significant for the human species, course taught semi movement it is happening all of the time and then coming out of the pandemic, the forces i identified as being fundamental deep drivers of human migration whether it is climate change is a big one, doesn't stop just because of pandemic lockdown political conflict, look at syria and afghanistan and the refugee flows and less the technology people are moving all the time. the united everyone in this almost one or two or a handful of people no longer live for these two because they can now be digital nomads in this part of mobility as well but as we move forward, forcing situations
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or trends that apply to hundreds of thousands ofpl people, millis of people and billions of people in the larger this point goes outwards, the more i'm confident in his thesis because of the deepest trends labor shortages in neighboring countries and because of climate change. so what i ask anyone to oppose the question sort of rhetorically back to you or anyone else, to me that you think in light of climate change and labor imbalances in demographic imbalances that the borders will be shut forever predict to me that we can debate it. >> to me what you are arguing, the basis for argument and you do nothing powerful case that climate change will drive mass migration mostly to the north and inland as you say and you
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also make the case that contrary to the population particular in the covid-19 era, a population collapse in many countries and that is going to create a labor shortage. on the other hand you do describe anyways which we can connect them in this digital world, called the public and people will find easier ways to create virtual communities and maybe they don't need to physically move as much. any sort. that out for us and hw is when play out. >> those are mobility concerns and just today, to say hey i spent my entire day in multiperson up and on the headsets and mark zuckerberg told me amanda what is the
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matter were about any electricity but again you want to live in a place and has stable electricity supply were you not going to have food shortages in this what people are moving it. and for reasons of precisely relate to taxation of the digital economy people moving all the time people are setting of the business in dubai for example or whatever the case may be so people are moving for precisely this reason. nina regulation of crypto currencies is everything dave people physically move to be in a jurisdiction of all of them to participate net economies to the very high net worth individuals and innovators are physically moving on the backs of this technology. physical migration is involved there and indeed were countries are crating sandboxes and
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saying, live here because a regular shoes are going to be different ground operations and this sort of thing and people living for that went to new zealand for further countries and because those people are not numerically significantly economically very significant as investor migrants, a dedicated first place in the book because they need to be key indicators of other people and they can be domestic as well as international so obviously the fly from san francisco to miami is again, digital mobility and arbitrage and fire it being would move the people and miami ispl a direct beneficiary of the higher cost of living and suffocating kind of political and weight the people perceive it in.
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and they're saying how can i help and their population has shrunk it now on the stuff around the declining population, this is one of the most important departures of the book of both normatively ineffectual, one is that what is not going to be overpopulated planet of 15 billion people, nothing of the sort and you know with all this work i know you have for 20 plus years and back in the '90s as you know i will both remember, predictions that the world population would reach 15 billion peoplee and out up on record right now and say that we will be lucky to reach 9 billion people like i highly highly doubt the world population will reach 9 billion people we were off by quite a lot, and that is just in 20 years pretty because the democratic forecasters miss
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everything housing shortages the pandemic and youmi name it and these have these baby pumps pretty so theab way that a frame holding his look, where this planet and we have a hundred 50 million square kilometers entering and by the hundred billion is inhabitable and we've only most i million people all f us would fit inside washington dc if we were standing side-by-side we do not have a population explosion problem in some parts of the world do like diindia. we have a distribution problem, that is really what this means me and obviously's accounting for all of the critical obstacles. is it morally and logistically feasible to have a more feasibility of the world population in terms of the, shortages we reach the peak humanity is a phrase that i kinda coined and usednt throught the book, we've reached it in japan and in europe and america and canada were already passed peak humanity and it does matter
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that the fact that the african population and indian population is going, some material to the fact no shortages of nurses and elderly care givers in our nursing homes in america. it's already here and were at peak humanity and our populatioi would not grow if we were not importing people. when you say, every thing is remote and whyot do we need more people, will tell that to all the elderly people who died during covid-19 in the d nursing homes because there were not enough caregivers. not enough oxygen either but all of the logistics and the work some of the physical human works, nontradable services as is known, required to get things from point a to point b is specifically caring for old and elderly people, find me a robot that will do that right now in prison, there's a shortage of 100,000 it ins. england, right now, a wealthy sophisticated company, there saying sorry guys, no turkey, no bacon and
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probably no gas to get your food for christmas and that is not because they don't have enough robot doing work for them. it is because they have an awful immigration policy to paying the price for it. i'm ready to embrace the digital world michael, bring it on but here yet pretty. >> you say there is no global migration policy and that's true. i don't think that many people have figured that out a new layout that for possible scenarios. and if you don't grapple with these issues one of which though hopefully magical nor the like, this might be adopted and once you talk about that a little bit, what could happen if we do not adopt these policies know scenarios and going into northern lights.
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and more positively predict. >> will definitely at this time we were to standstill sarah, it's awful because i'm not issuing with any certitude of exactly what will happen in the book is structured around the scenarios ready in three of them as you say are quite grandma negative. in this scenario is more or less resembling the present like to be focused on reasonable domains most migration owes region all and were investing in our own sustainability and renewable energy in providing technology to others are saying here's an technology don't come people read status quo buthn it's can s financial scenario and ignores her labor shortages does not necessarily good for us to be doing this. but it could persist for a while. to be barbarian at the gate scenario, our mitigation strategies are not working at your diplomatic 800 on the market for and our policies are
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failing, our shortages in a this are right everybody is fending for themselves, food supply chains are breaking down and the droughts are cutting off our food distribution and production. or becoming survivalist and hunter gatherers again and basically it's true, somewhere in the world rightht now, is tre in the world right now, it's happening. in third scenarios barbarians at the gate and then also is happening new middle ages plus the internationalization of migrants spillovers and uncontrolled way willl welcome o mexican border welcome to the mediterranean sea, thisra activy now, and grabs her happening now. water wars and resource wars and thus the third scenario and then there's northern lights and there's only one positive scenario thee' book so i'm not a naïve utopian optimist, we have to thread the needle and i think that's a present use read very very luckily and forthrightly in
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ways that we are today capable of doing other than blocking things down to reopen the world of migration is premeditated gradual sustainable way in which the human beings, billions of them a recirculate devastated and unproductive regions into places where they can be gainfully employed hopefully culturally assimilated and so this was scenarios, and vision. the pipedream credit is meant to be a vision and is called canada welcome to canada, country that welcomes and thousands of migrants every single year 1 percent of its population rated 400,000 never step foot in that soil more ors, less arrived in canada every single year. and some just came from the u.s. and the growing numbers probably will as i talk about in the book read says about possible do for the mice absolutely butn it's going to be an uphill battle.
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>> let's talk a little bit more about the politics of this because i think that countries, maybe those countries that failed to take on this agenda. and he wasn't might be a looser long-running go into details about this country that really grew and thrived and flourished because of immigration policies predict and becoming the nation about going in the opposite direction pretty but the infrastructure bill being debated on capitol hill right now. joe biden is not donald trump and yet he has done this rather champion way to saving grace for americans blue-collar workers a way to bring back the americans. and a buddy talk about whether these immigration policies if anything is almost presumptuous and how do we turn that around
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and heading into the point where as you say, in order to build infrastructure in this country, we've really will need the immigrant labor how to be changed politics here in the united states. >> i think we have to separate and bring together infrastructure and immigrationmm because there is a set of proposed reforms around trump's immigration policies that reach far broader than the current emergency level continuity run what is happening at the border. they're obviously trying to manage the flow and to just incentivize dissuade people from just crushing the board because they b already have i don't have totally empathy for how it's being handled but you i can understand it that you don't get to start a new one is millions of people lining up and waiting to come into the country. that said that would be heavily discounting and ignoring what biden is trying to a do around e domestic spending product and allowing thousands of the visa
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holders to work which will really draw in a lot more skilled migrants into thent unid states because they can be tube income hustles off the bat in this matters massively when i described as one of these technical roman three, and two, b - four, line items in legislation it braided is seismic and stuff kind of telling whole world that if you have brains and your skills, come to america braided that's with the biden administration is actually saying you know what this means for future as we deal of demographic, i'm an indian immigrant to america myself and as a kid and my parents came and we became citizens when i was 15. as like your, they dominate this quota in the pathway toeeom normalization so i would say it
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sort of like immigration, really does carry on and even just think about also climate refugees and think about the devastation whetherab we go actually hundreds of thousands of people for p the caribbean ad latin america enter the u.s. on the bases they never go back either read so we continue to be a mass migration society people coming from all of the direction so matter what and you had the biden administration has riauthorized i returned to the record numbers of visas for chinese students of the chinese are coming back ins huge numbers as well and a lot of them will also stay on and there's canada and the skilled labor and i would say it really defies political short-term is, and i think that's a good thing is sort of like the supply and demand it are playing out in the
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world of global labor markets if we just let them do so even more rated in the infrastructure, so sure you want to spend a trillion dollars okay will find me enough americans with exactly the skills that you needed to build back better if you want to answer is a not enough. in looking prison right now, they are paying truck drivers more than $100,000 in british people still "off the couch and do it. so we have the most people have this perception that there is this breakneck competition for jobs in the labor market between sort of indigenous and or local in the labor, that is not true that it drags down wages across the economy that is not true and so on. >> is it just being those
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countries that get it in some of the dough canada new point out that supplies and with japan, and the own collapsing population and starting out to look more alike with the countries but is there going to be any way of achieving this on a global basis and you talk about cosmetology and and so i do that we will want to have the greatest numbers and getting them to the right places but who accomplishes that. there is no global body now in existence, no global governance of any kind and how does that fix us. >> one thing i want to articulate is anyone who would criticize these sort of ideals, is that we will never ever ever have a global migration accord likely will have international
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agreements on how to settle and colonize the moon before the governments of the world will actually have a compact this is the people of the world can circulate freely the one, michael, you've reported all of the world and you know as well as i do that even if not using it to cult science terms, but that one a message that remains in a world where government can notnm control the pathogens in cyber attacks and thugs across the border pollution the one thing left even for the weakest ace in the world is the intent to control your borders yes the movement of human beings is one thing, a political geographer by training so ever in history, there is any, nobody else has to say it. so we will never have this led to go to your previous point,
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there is the divide in the world, one of the divides between those countries to get it those don't b those countries and say you know what, we have a bilateral basis are going to recruit these people and those people because we need them and you know mitochondrial multiculturalism will take its course we will follow along. ... >> may be 400,000 people a year. i went to high school inld germy in the 1990s, i was definitely the only brown guy in a pretty ssignificant radius. if you told, there used to be a party the neo-nazi party in the late '90s, used to be in fear
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of them. if you were to tell me or any german politician 25 years ago, that was a long time ago. almost 30 years ago. i'm getting old, almost 30 years ago if you told post-cold war, post-berlin wall german, 30 years from now you can have 1 million africans in your country, you have a couple million arabs, 6 million turks, they might believe you on the turks, 500,000 chinese and 100,000 indians freely circulating in germany many speaking german. integrating into your economy, not everything is going to go smooth andy peacefully you'll have some bumps in your politics and cultural adoption but this is your demographic in the year 2021. every single german all 80 million of them, they overestimated their population, there's less than 80 million, they would've laughed in your
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face. today is the fastest growing, the only country in europe with the growingng labor force in the role model for industrial productivity. germany gets it and it's easier to move to britain today than it was five or six years ago before braggs it. you used to have to show your proof of employment and pay a security bond, today you can be an indian kid and if you graduated college you upload your certificate and your allowed entry into the uk. there are 3 million foreigners living in japan. which is the highest level in history. there is a lot of countries waking up that doesn't make them cosmopolitan it doesn't mean that there truly borderless egos and hold everyone to beev equal. here is one thing that is
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important when you say how is this going to work, and the very technical level a lot of countries are saying it is all or nothing your citizen or you're not is not good enough. we need to have eight different tiers. this is happening r right now, smart countries do this. if you look at our immigration policy absurd alphabets from eight to be with the number following every letter, 85 of how to coming to america. in other countries is like level one, level two, level three here's how you do it here's how you apply and write an obligation in here's how you can be between the tears and ask amount of time and here's how you upgrade to digital. welcome to every other country in the world except america. it is totally happening because countries are realizing that they need these people. do you think that we don't get our act together here in thehe united states in terms of immigration.
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were not just could bein outpacd by other countries but what you describe in the book as a digital lead where other countries that do have moremm light and immigration policies join together, technologies, ideas are shared, supply chain are once again restored and conditions. and were left behind. is that a possibility? >> i don't really worry about that. it's contrary to some people i am not remotely declining it. aboriginal list continental list when you study geography that's the way you're trained to think. the fact that north america is going to be just fine, north america is the only truly peaceful stable continent on the planet. i don't worry at all about the future of north america in general and even america in particular, i worry about her
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politics and the fact that the u.s. is incredibly attractive and even with climate change afflicting and punishing parts of the u.s. more so than iten ds europe. recirculate because america is a lot bigger than europe and canada is a lot bigger than america and europe. resorts rich, fairly independent than a couple of areas for supply chain. he much everything that comes from arad is going to be substituted in america and no other country can say that with as straight face. it can be done with industrial policy and brains in the u.s. can do both. talent b will come in you can dw on remote talent and look how wall street kept on coming during the lockdown not only because they pivoted to remote work but they massively hire more indians. if you think about your financial institutions and consulting companies in digital companies, the tech consulting
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and finance essentially tech and finance are the biggest sectors of our economy. why labor day drawn a global labor force. of intelligent people who are serving american corporate interests that in some way our economy.nto i'm not actually worry quite frankly but that said you don't want to not be the number one destination. they are now leaning toward canada or britain or other european countries even asian countries, new zealand, australia and. so forth. >> it'll be a distribution allows hydroponic distribution of the left and the right not evil, it's natural, part of the globalization in its assigned that more parts of the world are lovable politically and
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commercially andpa something to celebrate. many americans might be surprised in the biggest problem is immigration. >> there are serious people looking at that it is interesting to see the number i talked to them in the number that has doubled into the mid to thousands. >> before we go to questions i wanted you to sketch out as detailed in your visions of civilization 3.0. your projectile, big feature is this idea particularly in europe climate change will be moving northward and inward. you really go into great detail across the globe in terms of what might be happening to russia and siberia and all the
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way across to the far east. talk about that how that's going to look if the migration takes place. >> the principle ofat civilizatn 3.0 can apply anywhere not just the principal, the mobility and sustainability which is to say more people will move in coastal inland and lower levels of elevation and so forth. as we move the great lakes region as people move back to the great lakes right now it's been depopulated but it will gain a population because of climate resilience. we should not be polluting and having mass migration to ecologically and the way that we've done so much of the planet. we have to do mobility with sustainability there i talked about how our future housing in
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cities need to be circular. collect rainwater and channeling to hydroponic agriculture wind and solar power and switchable battery packs. all this stuff and even the cities that i've looked at some of the investments in technologies and 3d printing movable housing and so forth. you can have millions of people living in low footprint even mobile kinds of settlements not because we want to go back to the days of our ancestors but is sustainable and feasible way to live in a high-tech way basically bottom line civilization 3.0 is a global concept that we should follow and have visibility millions people adopted as possible not talk about some of the countries that might be in balance, for example russia we have a really good performing economy but it
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has all of this landmark. >> russia and canada share similar geographic and latitude but have very polar opposite immigration policies. what i reported on in the book my travel all across russia, when you're outside of the kremlin in away from the victory all xenophobic, racist, nationalism of putin you hear a very different story as soon as you go east which is most of russia i talked to chiefs and governors and mayors and so forth and they say we need more migrants. we at least got the chinese investment and we need to build the railways and highways and we want to reach into the derelict soviet aircraft factories and become productive again. we have all thean agricultural superpower we don't have enough farmers. we have the university are dying
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in aging so we need students we should start teaching in english. this is the stuff that you've never seen reported outou of russia. this is exactly what the russians who run russia and physically run the majority of the territory known as russia tell me and doing all the time. the future of russia demographically, economically, climb illogically really does look very different than russia. >> why don't we see if we can go to the question to the audience. one question comes from darcy and darcy asks what will be the role of the transportation industry particularly the aired transportation civil and military in the scenarios thatth you layout. >> this gets partially to your infrastructure question, it's really interesting. one of the things that were not doing when we think about the
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infrastructure spending is to start with the first principles were the deeper trends. the fact is that climate change is rendering certain geographies unlivable or not fiscally responsible lovable. like parts of the gulf coast for the carolinas or whatever the question may be or whatever the location may be but we're still throwing money at these places. instead you start with the realities of climate change one of the most lovable parts of america that will remain livable. how do we incentivize people to move their which is with the army corps of engineers in fema and hud have formedth this alliance of federal agencies that are say no more rebuilding in coastal areas that are destroyed and getting destroyed every year in emmett domain on those locations. here's your relocation spent in michigan not louisiana. we are moving in that direction
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right now were doing technocratic things that you wouldn't normally ascribe to the u.s. government which i think of the right things to do. we talk about climate, migration and other infrastructure and transportation and otherwise of her own military which is to say if we know where we are directing people into livable geographies that will be more stable that's where we should spend on infrastructure and focus on improving roads and highways and bridges and affordable housing. water infrastructure, agriculture industry and so on and so on. that is a logical sequence which you should determine where and how to spend trillions of trillions of dollars. not what's happeningng right no. military is interesting as well. study after study of the pentagon is saner basis or in the i wrong places were spendina billion dollars repairing and
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refurbishing where they are rather than finding resilient areas. again all kinds of infrastructure and transportation first and foremost are vital to maintain the civic civil unity of a society and they dedicated a whole previousoo book to this issue infrastructure that we do in a logical way. if you don't have the infrastructure you're not really somee united states is level. >> let's go to another question. he asks we have heard in the recent past a lot of similar rhetoric about democratization and globalization and so forth but none of these promises of connectivity have been completely delivered in part
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because the regulatory architecture is built on different technologies. what can we do differently now to harness the impairment that you talk about their mobility. in other words it focuses hown can we change a regulatory policy. >> this is an area where you will have a collective global action immediately. we see bifurcation and how china views digital regulation versus europe and america. there is a shorthand and america companies on your data in in europe the people on the data in china the government owns the data. the reality is quite a bit of a launch of depending where you are. i argue less about the digital divide this is an area where if you go back to the 1990s this is when the term came of age but if we were in the 1990s with people
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have imagined that africa would be a leader in mobile money they have global crypto e-wallet's in the super on asian mobile phones they have access to everything, financialion, services, social media. far superior to any western country like far superior. that is not something you would heard in the 1990s but all of those arene factually true. my general rule more trade less trade is still divine and so on. i would like to continue to invest in t these areas. does that mean you get a global harmonization around digital regulation, no but we also tend
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to paint i'll linear of the tech cold war, we don't actually live in a world with the line of reasoning, to say there's only two choices in the global marketplace for technology. not true yet to choose between the chinese and american model for all technology, not sure. the fact is that i monopolies do exist and have been allowed to occur simply because of managing and certain assumptions. i also change. while we had 37% of the global 5g market now it only has 20% because the u.s. and western economies in japan said wait a minute let's not let that happen and encourage other countries to diversify their partnerships. even chinese cavities are telling their ownlo leadership, wait a minute when you force us
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to identify too much with the chinese state we lose business opportunities abroad and then we cannot become influential mobile companies anymore so you have to pipe this down. there is a non-linearity to all the stuff that tends to not be acknowledged when we posit with the war on technology. liz: let me follow up on the previous question by taking you back to connect over coffee written pre-pandemic. and in many ways you anticipated the kind of world that we are dealing with now that we've been hung into this world a virtual connectivity including today's session. about your book which normallyly would've been a pleasant chat among a bunch of us at politics and prose bookstore.
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it's now turned into something where i'm speaking from washington you're in singapore i believe and i don't know where our listeners are. you also talk about it in a previous book is supply-chain disruptions. we have a supply-chain war going on and a lot of debate about that. talk about the ways in which you anticipated where we are today or maybe you didn't anticipate where weod are today. >> there's two levels one is the infrastructure, the geography of supply-chain in the competition to be the central nodent of production were to control the technological innovation in that book i call it the horizontal and the vertical level of the supply chain. trying to be the producer of whether semi conductors and etwhether it's whale in the u.s. is the leader in technology and out to swing producer and energy
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so the u.s. is connected and relevant and technology finance andd energy and vertically which is to be controlling the innovation of the value added. there the u.s. is still vital and still spreading rapidly and you having areas like a.i. and manufacturing a tremendous innovation of the rest off the world. there's a competition to be the vertical leader inus the innovar that's hard so folks at a vertical level to create an industrial policy and on top of that we continue to spend trillions of dollarsl a year on the connectivity infrastructure whether it's high-speed railways, electricity cables, internet cables building more and work internet cables connecting all thein continents. all that to remind everyone is promoting connectivity. you can shut down borders allu you want but our global economy
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persist in many ways. one thing i remind people of ifl you use one lens which is trade what people tend to think they understand better. even that they get wrong because they think everything is a finished good made and digitally in one country which is not as part of the breakdown were seen right now people are like fine taiwan can produce enough semi conductors. but the silica the most abundant element in the earth's crust i have a stand in that book. it has to be finished and prepared in china to be sent to the semiconductor plan and non-friendly territories like taiwan and korea and even as we further distribute semi conductor production out of taiwan to escape the geopolitical scenario of the chinese mainland seizure of
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taiwan. as far as arizona and the united states, japan, korea and india. we continue to distribute and dissipate production in order to achieve greater systemic resilience which is a fancy way of saying if you stop supplying something you can get it from somewhere else. that's the world we need to build and the more we invest, the morehe we get towards the connect logger free. redoing all the time redoing it because of the nefarious nature of geopolitics. it is because of it. china built the road and the infrastructures for their own national interest, it is to get the elite as far as ukraine, is to ship things over the arctic and to europe for the trading partner but it benefits more than china it is dual use. anyway that's what is going on
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and then the digital domain as j well living with the internet infrastructure and the share of the economy that is increasingly digital anyway irrespective if a shipping container gets stuck in the canal. it doesn't stop the digital economy. were not good at measuring the digital economy if we overlook the financial economy you couldg stop all physical trade finance is trillion.n. if you want to understand globalization focus on dollars and bits not just adams, dollars bits and atoms at a bare minimum and these are your four pillars you want to properly measure globalization look atou all flor and you see globalization is alive and well.
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>> we have connected virtually in the last year end a half the pandemic is there anything that we learned about the limits of that and how it doesn't work? >> of course people have blossomed in a way that they will keep in touch. my mother misses her grandchildren and hasn't physically seen them so it would be nice to getet together again the way we used to. that's one dimension regionally compensate in a limited way. of course globalization is not self secure for inequality by any stretch of the imagination connectivity can help fund people. let's say your job is taking photos or tagging photos for google earth in your living in uganda. your part of thehe connected economy in your earning a higher wage. but your village may still be lacking in running water.
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there is lot of things that we need to focus on ast local level which to be honest the humanitarian message of the book is pretty simple it should guide the totalitarian. if you cannot move people to resources move technology to people. it is one sentence in the book but it's fairly simple law move people to resources and move technology to people in the world will be a betterr. >> i don't take it for granted. travel is a methodology it's not just fun andnd games.
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and before going to place. to help me wisdom like you you have to substitute for temporarily when you're in a lockdown but i don't think for me there will be another way of life then travelingy and exploring unlucky my parents raised me that way. i raise my kids that way they bid to dozens and dozens of countries already. let's be clear on the eve of the pandemic this is a good way to wrap up the year 2019 i was not alone as a footloose border crosser, 1.5 billion people across the board or in the year
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2019 that is a record in human history degree. i ask you to tell me this one pandemic suddenly means the end of the megatrend i mean megatrend were 1.5 billion people cross the borders and nearly 300 million people were living outside of their country of origin. quite a few million went back home indefinitely but of course millions of people right now under our noses are relocating to r other countries because they've decided where they want to be if the next pandemic were hit. obviously this is a crucial part of the book to the technology of all of this. this will be a learning experience, reset and how we do mobility. rather than just stamps in your
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passport and physical reporting on who's vaccinated and who's not. it's creating a greater mobility divide and mobile dividing because africans don't have qr codes to demonstrate their certification. imagine what we will have five years from now. i mean five years not 15. five years from now every human being is gonna have the qr code saying there vaccinated annual be putting data on the block chain about your travel history and financial history and education history and criminal history. that is acceptable only when needed to government so you can have access to the country and will digitize mobility because of t the pandemic. >> far from believing it's a linear lockdown it is very much the opposite. i know and i'm following and encouraging the companies that are building that future digital pathway too physical mobility fr all of usl right now.
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i'm absolutely certain were gonna have it within five years. that's an optimistic note to end on that. >> if nothing else the pandemic and lockdowns have the mind of so many of us of how desperately we want to get on the move again. >> you and me both. >> that is probably itfo for us. >> think you both so much. >> i also wanted to throw back to the supply chain disruption, speaking of that. your book which is supposed to come out last tuesday is now coming on the 12th. >> that is right. >> has to do with the pandemic and a lot of authors moving
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their books to the fall and printing issues. thank you both so much for being here. that was a fantastic conversation. >> i really appreciate it, thank you. >> good talking to you and maybe you can give me investment ideas aboutay those companies. >> sure, why not let's have another chat. >> take care. >> thank you everyone. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast every saturday and making history tv documents america's story and on sundays booktv brings you the latest nonfiction books.
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>> cox along with these television companies support c-span2 as a public service. >> every saturday events and people that explore our nation's past, american history tv will bring to the latest nonfiction books and authors. television for serious readers. merck, discover, explore, weekends on c-span2. >> my name is edward lewis, i'm the editor of the financial times, i'm delighted to'm be hee at the club of california to talk to thomas wright about his new book which you should

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