plusus going 2004 victor davis hanson was on this program and since then he's written an additional seven book so we invited him back to speak about those. his most recent book is called "the dying citizen" and in dr. hanft and in this book you writeou quote history is not static. civilizations experience with detours and regressions and abrupt imposter. can you give us a sense of how you view our current situation historically? >> guest: yeah. maybe it's what what makes a civilization very successful.

there'll predicated and i would verify that by saying constitutional governments of the sizable middle class and it has to be larger than an aggregate. we are starting to see and we have seen for 12 years and 2017 a steady erosion of income, $1.7 trillion in student debt largely accrued by the middle class. the age of homeownership is falling. the age of marriage, the age when people first get married and the first child born and did did demography itself. the middle class is being tested as never before and also i think you have a sense of orders. i've always studied what caused wars and it's always over borders.

even strategic defense were symbols and their culture could inculcate within these borders the customs and traditions and wayne the united states were the first successful large multiracialut constitution. i know brazil and india tried to do so as well but they were far less successful. it was very important that people inculcate this idea that your tribal affiliation and your background or your race, your gender all of that is important to your identity but it has to be incidental rather than essential. you have to judge multiracial multiethnic complex society. you have to have a commonality. tribalism is a constitutionall asystem. these were kind of organic.

there t were. modern threats throughout history and tribalism and absence of borders and the feudal system. ink think also our elite in a postmodern post-civilization sense, we have 2 million, 40% of all americans and especially in net new york washington nexus. we have a lot of people and this is difficult for traditionalists and conservatives i and i would expand dwight eisenhower's military-industrial complex warning to the military and the surreal intelligence investigatory complex. the fbi, the cia and nsa the pentagon and we have had a lot of controversy about our professional health care. d the common denominator is we have allowed people who exercise

and one officer one person legislative judicial power without necessary audit. we also have a lot of evolutionary. there's nothing wrong with changing the constitution. many of them have been key whether about or a women's right to vote for the 18-year-old vote but but this idea that suddenlys a 233rd year of her public we are going to get rid of the customs and traditions that it worked pretty well with a 180 year filibuster that's been discussed. the supreme court that has been with usme for 150 years in 60 years of having 50 states, 233 years of the electoral college or i that's also -- i'm worried about that is first obtained jars of a constitutional government andre then finally is kind of, globalism is a new

variation on a cosmopolitan citizens of the world but it's primarily confined to the elite. mostly the costa would lead to feel there are certain aspects of united states that are not in sync with the world and maybe a more superior way of governance but you can see some of the attempts of davos with this current great reset and a lot of american industries and intellectuals and celebrities have joined the idea that major nations of the world could get together on corporate tax polices are corporate tax rates or climate change provisions. we saw that with the paris climate accord. i think it's a wrong idea that the globalization that started in the millennia was economic in a harmonization of the american capitalist system all over the world.

i think people tookt it to the next level fooled by technology and the internet and tv. because you could communicate instantly with people other governments and cultures would be equally responsible for world governments could see a little bit of that. secretary blinken invited the u.n. inbe the aftermath of the violence we had in the united states in 2020 or the international criminal court looking at whether american soldiers should or should not have done something in afghanistan or iraq. the problem with all of these is the 190 nations of the world the majority are not democratic and they are not constitutional. such af system would be democratic in itself in many of these countries would be operating cosmically democratically. that's not sustainable.

these are some of the concerns i've had of our organic. moderne tendencies could we create a postmodern top-down change to the system. >> host:is do you feel this is a dangerous and turbulent time of the 60s or perhaps even 18 50's? >> guest: we all have this idea that everything is even -- either better or in your own time but what i'm a little bit worried about is anytime you have a geographical force multiplier to call this a sociopolitical differences the united states you have have a problems of the civil war was predicatedul on but is also predicated b on the geographical mason-dixon line were one side was clearly a geographical entity. we are starting to -- i think barack obama saw that when he

gave it democratic speech. we are not red america or not blue america i and i'm not suref he followed that necessarily in his own governance. the idea that you can go to a completely different paradigm andnd that runs the gambit from vaccinations to mandates to crime to taxation etc. etc.. that's worrisome because in the past -- and their thing that's worrisome is we are getting a nullification idea that you can -- that's what south carolina did and 18 50's and that led to the south thing we simply are going to obey federal statute. and we started to see it on the left. we have 550 of them in state and local communities and the states have said federal immigration law in its entirety doesn't comply with our jurisdiction.

i've seen certain reactions to that whether they say him like you guys we want to honor the constitution we will not by state laws and we are going to sell guns that follow the 2nd amendment and they don't follow california's gun laws. once you start no a fine laws and everything -- every time you do it leads toh chaos. in the 60s when i was a student at the newly migrated you see protesters are on the outside. they marched on corporate headquarters in complained about the shout out of the media and i tell you i watched a lot of

protests where people store and get difference in this revolutionary cycle we are in the people want to change the system within it. theyva are the google people in silicon valley and hollywood celebrities and in international basketball league, the nfl, entertainment in general. this is different. the 60s said we don't have the institutional power. we want to change the system. this democratic capitalist system that we feel isia materialistic this time around most of the revolutionary fervor is coming from the top down on institutions that are in control. >> host: at in "the dying citizen" you talk about the concept of citizenship and whether or not that's n a dange.

>> guest: it is. when you go back to the time and space i can't think of -- civilization is 7000 years old in the middle east. there is a subject and a mir resident but the idea that people can control their own government and they can elect an official and hold them to an audit and they can remove them set their budgets and have their expenditures and declared himself when to and when not. that's a unique idea started in the eighth century in greece and probably later in the republic system in rome and then it disappears morear or less and ps up again in the middle ages in some forms in europe and britain

especially with republics and the renaissance. it's usually the odyssey and the rarity that is more rare than common. you'llee see a lot of cultures haven't embraced constitutional governance whether it's g chinar russia or other countries in africa or south america or asia. they have arguments against it but but this idea of america the national state plan to establish it takes on a life of its own. it's durable and it's tough and it's completely ahistorical and very fragile require so much responsibility on the part of the resident and there has to be clear distinctions between people who live in your country and our residents and people who are full-fledged citizens. those distinctions whether it's the ability to vote or the

ability to receive federal help for state help for the ability to go back across the border freely there's a staple between ala resident -- was her you worried that we are forgetting our commonalities? >> guest: iem. i thought we had 60 years or so since the civil rights movement that demolished the legacy. i thought the visions of what matter and not the color of our skin and when you look at economic development of so-called nonwhite people in america starting to achieve parity and that's one of the most important rubrics. i looked the other day at groups

identified by every background and people were number 16 the koreans arab-americans. they all had a higher per-capita income than the supposed majority. we were making progress and now we are progressing and people are beginning to look at their tribe and suggest if the country wasn't conceived in a perfect nature or didn't come off perfectly or it's not perfect now it's better than the the alternative boards on even good and the problem with tribalism from a historical point of view is it neverla occurs in isolati. it's like liberation once the country goes the neighbors want to do because it brings out the elemental instincts. the latinis word tribal was a death of a tory word.

in the past there were three gangs where we get this prefix tribe and they ran things. people were select it without consultation or constituencies in the tribal chief said everybody looks and talks like me and we are going to fight that tribe. the same thing was true in classical attica. wede destroyed the tribal system and the result was democracy. i think we have that aspiration but the idea that we are going to go back now is not going to end well because every single tribe no matter how they will start reasserting themselves. this person is doing edits a little bit different than the idea of civil rights legislation like affirmative action that was based primarily on the ideas

that this on our history of jim crow and, once we created this diversity and said we are going to enlarge the people that they've been oppressed by the american system to 30% of the population and will be based on the idea q that -- suddenly peoe were quite affluent from south america and immigrant in the southern belle david on 5000 acres. you could be a taiwanese ophthalmologists and class no matter -- no longer matter. we had these systems kind of their unification of jesse jackson's dream coalition but they were not economically oppressed and many of them had no history of discrimination within the united h states. some did and some didn't but the point i'm making here once it was based on race better --

rather than historical - circumstances of orr class we reach an orwellian situation where v we had affluent people n the states who are suggesting that their race is their focus of oppression and whether that's meghan markle or lebron. what we are getting to, james would have to tell a forklift driver and bakersfield say he's 21 and came of age 30 years after the civil rights movement making minimum wage in their a lot of people that i know. he's probably dating someone or married to someone in the demography of california that is not and the side of inter-marriage. he's never been eligible for affirmative action and doesn't have the connections of thehe elite. on the basis of his race on the

oppressor side of the equation somebody like lebron james. my point is not to make anecdotal evidence like that and make a generalization. just to save the system of facing a lot of grievances only on race rather than class is not --he it has too many paradoxes.ons in >> host: victor davis hanson on the identity politics and class warfare and arguments you make. to use the phrase in this book and i wanted you to explain a little bit. you talk about the crunch earl had them at -- cultural hegemony. >> guest: i think it means there is always a hereditary elite. hereditary elite were people who

had money going back to the 1880s like the vanderbilts and the rockefellers etc.. in the new meritocracy of the 20th century i think we undo social political where you went to school and where you were born or how much money had. if you have a b.a. or a bac from el princeton and stanford caltech, m.i.t. then you are rewarded accordingly whether government politics or business etc.. we were trying to professionalize these deals. the problem was when chewer staffed with that brand we didn't have the continuing audit on how sensible you were. the best and the brightest of the candidate generation got us

into vietnam and the people who suggested maybe we not go into vietnam were not part of thatf bipartisan establishment and we could settle back with a lot of disastrous american history. when you look at the ashley universities today and you ask yourself is a level of undergraduatee education cold fr ball with the reputation. i don't think it is in with the look at people ined the media or people in business or people in the military not a clipping the military academy what they say and what they do and how they conduct themselves suggest they have moral or educational similarly branded with these letters. that said great. of the culture really produce a geographical component because

globalization averaged people on the westu coast and korea south korea japan taiwan and china and the east coast the eu. it wasn't just their proximity. if you have a skill that was transferable but notra replicatd abroad and if you are in the media and what we are doing right now intellectual discourse orr discussions or you were a lawyer or a corporate person or a silicon valley magnet your audience or consumer market vastly expanded. threonine 30 million to 7 billion. if you are small farming or a lathe operator or you had 80 technicality or your job required muscular labor you logs

or minds or any natural resource that could be duplicated user lost a job or your pay was cut or you are sort of nukes. i'm speaking of my own and i'm looking at interior california that has lost its huge -- forklifts plant etc. etc.. then i think it was cause and effect. these people took opioids or they did not have to cope. whatever it was that we never said -- someone yanks in ohio at died because of the trade policy and we have a vocabulary people

and it took on a political content. the idea that these were. that's what i mean by cultural leaders. >> host: victor davis hanson joining us from his farm in selma california. which is where intel is about the. area. >> guest: it's almost the geographical center of california. i'm 180 miles from san francisco 180 miles from los angeles. the closest town is fresno which is about 1 million people now. it's about 18 miles away. v. 25,000. it's now 6000. fresno county t is the richest agricultural county united states. i learned about that in the

90s. during this globalization project farms had to be vertically integrated to survive because so much of it was exported and imported. to be efficient in the global sense you need large-scale economy and that would be b integrated preferably two or 3000 acres and integrated with trucking vertically integrated with trucking packing cold storage distribution and shipping. i'm looking for in a 60 degrees amount might -- around my window today and it doesn't look anywhere near what it was like in the 1980s. by that i mean if the israeli family the family to see other family all of these groups that were neighbors are all gone.

by that i mean a corporation that bought the farm and farm houses are rented out and we don't haveve that velocity anymore. i tried to write earlier i'm not laying anybody because i'm looking out of my almond orchard that i rent out and it's much better farmed them when i did it myself. everything is on a computer it your dish and fertilization schedules automatically administered. there's a scientific regimen and the old idea that almonds -- and it's a now biggest their produce with water and less fertilization but the idea that the families going to farm and the kids are going to grow up and work in the almond orchard

and the mom is going to be in pta and dad will be a little league b coach and view free ranger kids that are old enough to talk with the other kids. it's a natural diversity rather than a proposed one where b1 has different ethnic backgrounds and that's all gone i think.. >> host: >> guest: i understand a couple of things happen to people. when you get older you look back and you say it was so much better they are and there was no crime and nobody had keys or doors. .. young. race or ethnic background, i mean, there were stereotypes and cruelties, i'm sure, and i heard them, but it was a sort of, well, if the japanese guy farms

better than you, then he's better than you. it was a meritocracy. yeah, i lament that. i lament the idea that farming is no longer necessarily social or cultural. in other words, the idea from the greeks on was that the combination of muscular labor and intellectual activity that farming requires, at least homesteader agrarianism requires, is gone. and many of the people who were the best farmers now i don't think have have ever driven a tractor. many of them, not all. so i lament that fact, but i also understand that food as a percentage of the budget until recently had been increasingly more plentiful, more diverse and cheaper. and that's because of the scientific, technological breakthroughs in agriculture and research, partnerships with corporations and universities. and as i talked about earlier, economies of scale is.

i guess if i put all that abstraction and verbiage into a paraclimb, if i looked out here when i was young, we had trees lining all of alleyways not because they have the added anything, but they were shade key, and they were picturesque, and people could walk through them after dark, or you could ride a horse through them or bike, whatever. and we had hills all over. it was one of the earliest farms parceled in 1870 by my great, great grandma. but when it was sold off, and i wrote about that, i have four siblings, three brothers and two cousins that were virtually my brother and sister, all of, all of that was sold off except what i have now, 40 acres. and, obviously, nobody wanted to farm that way, so the hills were leveled, the trees were ripped out, the alleyways were demolished, and they were put on a computerized grid and

synchronized with other -- that had been independent farms. so now the original >> nl the original 1305 acres of you look at the picture, it is part of the large large large m- acre complex but the idea that anybody not the same visuallyer very nice thing, is perfect under part of the squares like a factory hundred trying to privilege my own espresso i think that a lot of people realize the same thing happens with small businesses, when they become target or walmart, is much cheaper and efficient maybe even cleaner and more highly regulated but you do something. you don't know the people you're talkingo. to, is just an exchane of merchandise and there's no cultural and going into the storm talking to walmart to put in way that you used to there

with food markets. >> his book, it first came out in 2003 and is been updated throughout the years including this year, and in the boca, he writes we are at the last frontier of cultural democracy and limitless mass production and for the first time in history, entertainment and fashion and media are an economical understandable reachable and apparently enjoyed by everyone and regardless of race, age or gender predict what was that important for you. >> you think about was that all of the considerations made unique cultures, small-town america, states that were different from one another, turning on the television and southerncent or a

accent and a michigan accent, and different types of dress and customs and i was all being harmonized and we losing a sense of regional community and everybody needs well you do not want to identify by tribe and therefore is important for people to have football teams lease will do, but they have to have something unique and if you're going to harmonize the entire country so that fresno and i got to charleston ra go to burlington, still see the exact same applebee's or mcdonald's and the culture is pretty much the same and then you have to have some transcendence and that would mean the united states so you will have to then say, okay then this is the 21st century and 20th century the modern era and all interconnected in

the united states is unique and exceptional place because were connected with the world but what we are doing is harmonizing the regional level and in same level and united season overdoing it the global level and people aref just part of a conglomeration and they don't have any sense that there's anything unique about living here were exceptional come if you don't have a border very unique idea about who you are, and i don't mean and chauvinistic over an aggressive sense but just a confidence that you have achieved something and that you requited a system that works any uprightness system inn the people participate in the system. and i think that's in real danger, we don't have civic it education anymore, schools i can give you have to to get to know people don't like him but i went to school work and see out my

window that was about 5 percent of mexican americans did not go to the rural farm school was more diverse parents were strong true democrats and thought it would be very good to go to school that represented people who lived around us we lived closer to town than most i can tell you that it was a brutal bargaining but we learned grammar and we learn english and we learn american history. the majority the vast majority of the mexican-american students there, went on to do quite well, iran is city council and the governments and private enterprise and very successful. i feel a lot of their success was never given the tools that it is everything from addiction to grammar to vocabulary to mathematics, to compete with the people who have far more economic advantages than they

did today. anything repairs because we were in addition, we were self schooled by my mother and she grew up speaking that and my grandfatherth had no sons and oe crippled daughter is worried about what happened with mortgages the late 30s and two girls to stanford undergraduate and graduate degrees and so when she came back here and so to my father, who had a degree than people and their families have college degrees in the kind of tutored us in addition to the public schools and so i got a very good education that she thought that it might be lacking if i didn't to go to school with people lived around and just hung out with the one family and so very poor people most of them from the oklahoma hundred sign back about in this area, not a lotut left is very poor than thn

is pretty couple of high school you'll read and have to those ideas tested in the real world but it did get a good education and the circumstances. >> now you mention it stanford university which are connection with stanford today. >> i'm a senior fellow, somebody who is attached to the hoover institution there in the research is involved in the medical school law school that it's a professional entity attached up stanford and then, your audited or your expected to do research popular

dissemination of the research and the new tenured process, the classics professor in 2004 is been reduced a little bit to do and half weeks because it took it off in the summer then i teach at hillsdale, i when they start right before the group starts up again in the summer and i guess that i graduated at the university in 1980 with a degree and i have a long history with thehe university, my cousin sort of grew up as my sister went there in her son with their is that my mother went there and my aunt and i had kind of an ambiguous relationship and when hannah thought that i got a

superb graduate education, no map printed out about it, most rigorous education can imagine almost brutal but it was pretty good that my mother got a great legal education so we had a lot of respect for especially the quality of education is always the sense that stanford sort of lacked connection with the real world and the people at stanford thought they were of a surgeon i don't know, absence of what you and i were talking about earlier, the credential verities of california or maybe even the country and i don't know if that was always worn out i have an ambiguous relationship and i still do with it and i don't get along too well necessarily stanford although we do have a lot of close friends. >> a national review last april

you wrote this today's universities and colleges resemblance to postwar higher education imagine place with the certification educational excellence a the arts degree iso guarantee that a graduate can speak right or communicate coherently, or think productively. >> he i look that up in a didn't just write that to him i talked to a lot of very successful ceos and business people who hired us from elite colleges and they all said, the same thing to me. i think it is more out to talk to practically the inflation etc. they also the same thing the top universities are graduating people who cannot express themselves, coherently printed their vocabularies are diminishing they do not write as

well they do not have the same skills and yet, rather than being aware of the deficiency, and more confident and i can see never before has onerr person voting is our bad combination and i think that you can really see it when you suggested to the universities that they might make some changes and he said to the university, when you know i, event tenure overtime since your early 20th century incarnation as a modern university and do you really have intellectual diversity and it may people speak out for the most oppressive atmospheres for free speech is the person amendment on little universities and why do we have in this 21st century, why are we regressing having separate graduations theme houses even in selected roommates unselected on race and

maybe we should have a five-year contract and say this is what fiveea years or maybe we should say, until recently you thought the sat the act, where criteria which you could judge the inferiority of the superiority of high school education and so soon he said they had a four-point oh, you said but we don't know how to trust the high saloon have you also take the sat for example wanted have an exit exam because may we don't trust the quality of your education it so everybody of god bachelors degree within be sorted like a bar exam just regular would not be hard taken sat standardized test to see if you really learned anything at the universities of course have a tenure are very critical of the outer when we say to young people want to teach, you got your back force degree but were very worried about the academic content in

classrooms and part of that is the preparation of the teacher so you have a choice, we don't want to dismantle the educational system but if you do not want to get a credential which has a lot of emphasis on technique for administration or social issues but you want to hone your academic skills and you can either have a one-year answersne in english history ma, or making of the credential that either one is the true and parochial schools are community colleges will be fined and when you close p that, to the universities in the state, education boards, they say why don't we when affair notch or prices stupidly, universities have become political entities and if youou look out the political affiliations of the faculty orat administrators, we type you know what, nonpartisanship does not exist anymore or lease is not a

diversity of partnership when we just type after $12 billion, your endowment is taxable just like hisnd money so much money e treasury getting a lot of it in taxes we really think that your nonprofit anymore any sense of being politically unbiased when i don't take up too much time we said to the university, winces federal government transfer the idea of moral hazard and your students were borrowing the money with federalra guarantee loans on .7 trillion into and during this time, raise tuition higher than the rate of inflation given enough is also some question about quality education that the graduates expressed in some degree in

their path at the university lost interest in my graduate degrees are not necessarily transferable to profession and when we avenue back it you'll have these enormous in some cases the best schools have multibillion-dollar endowments t to save your students that we will loan you money and for default, we will cover the expense i think they had that house or there will be very careful about their budgeting and administrative vote that have contributed to the shocking rate of growth of the tuition at these universities. >> in fact it was '90s you are writing about the changes in education. >> is worried about an classics, felt that what happened were two things, one was a generic not

political, just that we have 5000 it - in the united states and 90 percent of them were people who were teaching for five classes you a lot of them and they were advocates for the profession of the idea of western civilization and their teaching translation and they were devoting their entire lives and kind of the people that no one really cared about not make a lot of money many of them were part-time contingent faculty had then, these elite schools, we had a few never teaching very few classes in the idea was that they had to teach review because they're doing seminal breakthrough research when you think w about classical studiesf who didwh what, the invention of

archaeology or newman. the more i think the proposal orally, or roth the first documented professional embrace and focused on this and all of them had one thing in common either theye were either not thy were running himself for taken a tradition and said they were going to pick a few people can be very specialized this wasn't. three headaches and i different than the 12 tribes today at the moment and when you look at phd classes being taught, titles

like the transgender is emma on the apollo rhetoric manhood or will not getting the value the areas but desperation with a predominant didn't translate well into the undergraduate curriculum much less to the general public and so when i would go into a bookstore, i received books in the ancient world that were very popular in all of the authors were necessarily - they were intellectuals financing intellectuals and writers in the tomball and so to speak of the classics and have these positionsor and the other side f the coin was that we were getting very political university in general about suggesting that when doing more to be more populist and poor concentration in the undergraduate teaching and public outreach to h try to convince the people of the value

we can latin languages and when we acknowledge the people who do very specialized philological research and very valuable criticisms and manuscript and we need the continuing research and we need larger research in areas of anthropology and sociology etc. but s let's not make them into - whene we say these people are important in the undergraduate teachersnd or maye a little bit more porta because without them, there's no field subsidizes the people at the very top and there was no constituency group, and a mean that people will were part-time teachers felt that if they objected they likable, the people would hire them and people were going specialized philological research valid on

under attack that fell on attacked and people were very left wing for under attack and had good reason to feel that way think the general public i think that the message but unfortunately, the years since that book was published, i think of things that we worried about, have gotten worse and, i mean, princeton university just announced that it become a classics w major without taking any break and now the classics is another controversy and that is not the postmodern controversies of the 1980s not out of africa controversies but more fundamentally essential and it shouldn't even be classical is a field is horrifying western civilization and toxic supposedly. and we should encourage and they

want to have these classics the problem with that is that people who want to abolish it, feel that they are compared to this some sort of historians literature on the tenure so that he would gravitate to disciplinary program and all of the many hundreds of event thousand part-time teachers treat teachers and assistant teachers of classics would be out of a job. >> i'm pleased that you join uss for this month's into programs in the scholars and historians and authors and joining us victor davis hanson from his home in southern california were going to begin taking this call in just a few minutes and here's how you can get through, and talked with doctor hansen 2020 gotten some flight 8200, houston several times on, 740, 8201 for those of you who are in the mountain and split pacific not times and if you want to send us a text message, so here, this a

text message only, 202-7488 line 031st name and if you what, if you can't get through the phone lines so to make it, try some social media e-mail book tv as cspan.org apple tv for twitter facebook and instagram will begin taking the calls and texan tweets in just a minute doctor hansen is the author of 22 books for second time on. license program his birth was in 2004, and we've invited him back to some ofme his recent book, se of the more recent books include which first came out in 2003 but is been updated with years and second one out in 2017, the case

return, 2019, and dying citizen, most recent book which we discussed a little bit and telling today and doctor hansen, when it comes to the u.s. immigration, first f of all is this a book about immigration or is it about assimilation or neither of those. >> it is both, there's two themes for an editor the first name was the illegal immigration is wonderful because it enriches the culture and it makes native american people born in the united states aware of how lucky they are and its so-called and am just now voicing traditional support and put them on their toes and so what, i mean, the real world is that my family was

here in 1870, felt like 1970, none of the people that were farming except for one neighbor so-called - homesteaders they were median or the mexican-americans or in one case creaking, what it meant was they came with nothing or less resources than they work very hard as the idea that you could learn from them work ethic and maybeen people would be here log time and that was a reason and for the idea that if somebody risks life and limb, to come to the united states, and start from scratch, then maybe's thats it natural part of people and then complacent they're not the well-off these are people are really going to work they have talent that dumping recognizing real systemic in the second half was that if you other people come in illegally, in the first

act that they commit as they are breaking the law by crossing the border in the second one is residing illegally, and often a third act will be to find a good vacation with the illegals and speaking of someone that think on three occasions that they stole i think it can make the argument to somebody is here illegally. and if thehe innovation pool is not sufficiently diverse and it fifth of people coming all without experiencing many of them don't know english and have a high school tacoma, if they are arriving doses plus confidence in the melting pot adopted the salad bowl of each particular ethnic group that they should maintain their cultural identities and if they being sent as a good work, by

government who want remittances and we havego now $30 billion st back to mexico and another 32 central american a very cynical fashion the largest foreign exchange in latin america countries involving an progression and if the safety valve the people say who are just dissatisfied in indigenous people in thehe treatments the government in mexico city and the mexican government said well then why don't you leave, you don't have really internal reform to the same degree if ueverybody - the united states and several of these things, then contrary to the idea of diverse immigration illegal immigration and immigration floor people come into a country we are enriched by your culture

on this and what is this music and fashion and the arts literature etc. we are going to absorb you and that this kind of a term that we will integrate human we are going to assimilate you and uniqueness of american life that you choice to join and that would be constitutional government every market economy and racially blind ideal and the judiciary quality of women in multi-ra racial society that requires a lot of work and power and it is all of those values that we are going to impose on you the immigrants and we are goinget to make a distinction between the people who come here legally and they want to be here legal residence than those who break the law and fortunately we host we've lost confidence in

the powers of assimilation and integration and we don't estimate enough of have too many vested interests corporate entities that want cheap labor they can exploit them and we have immigrants and people for political reasons who want an assimilated the constituencies they can flip the state like california nevada colorado new mexico maybe arizona from red to blue and the building of f integration so all of these constituencies seet9 in the it's of a them up but i don't think it necessarily benefits either the illegal immigrants, though not supposed to say that word but that is a good latin base word for somebody violates the law when they arrive and i don't

see if you going to have illegal immigration you have so many paradoxes and hypocrisies that it won't work and you can see the noun them southern border fr half million americans that were for the federal government many of them have had covid-19 and antibodies that what we're saying sing to them is going have to be vaccinated to keep her job were not asking the same obof noncitizens crossing unlawfully in southern border and a stunning and unexpected that's what you would expect with thehe system at institutionalizedd plus 25 year. >> last question for me weur goo our colors and viewers, captain here in washington about presence hosting historians and in the white house, which about history etc. any overt been invited. >> up to the white house. >> yes. >> i was invited to the bush white house when i got the 2007,

nationally humanities award from there was a ceremony that year and i think there were three then i went to a christmas party in 2007, but have not been to the trump white house. >> whenever one of those off the record discussions. >> oh yes, yes, i have. i had during the bush administration has got k a funny coming move work not supposed to discuss things i don't know if i'm violating this or not but there was a wide range of views and i know i wouldn't want to mention all of the names of the people there were three or four or five historians and they were not just conservatives, they were centrist and taking in one or two cases, progressives and they talked about 911 initiatives and then the wisdom over ignorance going into afghanistan into iraq what you should do things go bad in iraq

so they went on, once or year for three or four times with that was off the record i think ited we were still eastside trid to abide by that request not to mention the admin to the white house because i think that some of them said one of the white house and people are listening to me. i think the one journalist one point, said something that why would anybody listen to somebody from summa california and somebody heard about it and it did not come from me don't think they were listening, think they just wanted to what one thing that was get ready to recommend booksco and everybody recommendd a book and then two or three times overho the years the next time that you were there, actually read the book and he discussed with a person that recommended it in front of the other.

>> was a book you recommended to president bush. >> yes and that i think, didn't show a lot of imagination, i said just read portions of the city's history and then i mentioned i think, winston churchill's second world war there were others pretty going on i can't think of one person good friend of mine, and he gave a lot of recommendations about the modern is on and recommended one of his books and i think the president read read. >> let's hear from our colors, and you are on with the author victor davis hanson a go-ahead. >> thank you very much and prettily doctor hansen and i would like to ask you by the current state of the so-called mainstream media corporate media, specifically as an example about wisconsin and

pretty obviously a domestic terrorist attack in the holiday parade in the legend murder of one look at his social media history is pretty obvious. >> tingling i apologize mobile getting a little far afield here, could you distinctly ask yourur question. >> it yes, i am wondering since the corporate media and mainstream media so-called is the vast majority is so obviously one-sided now in the left and do you think that we will have any effect on the history of the future so to speak to my you and i think we got your point. >> i think that everybody wants both use and so i try to look at

this empirically hand so you go onto the internet come i think that you can find a wide diversity of opinion with one exception. and that is if you post something that is controversial a conservative versus controversial liberal coming probably going to run into trouble much more frequently the auditors facebook and twitter. if you run a google search, i think if you do a lot coming mortified there's a pattern the result will more likely show liberal than conservative findings and matches as you can find a lot of conservatives site so not worried about the access to information in essence, i am point about $6 trillion in marketet capitalization in silin valley think you on the left or the right, trying to come to an agreement that it represents something like 19th century trust that they have not placed

a buyout and absorb all of their competitors and the use an enormous amount of money to affect the way that we vote massage certain procedures and four and 14 anything a lot of people on the left today to give more money to us but they're awfully thinking on the right-center we bought this for so long to the remarketed entrepreneurs in the buccaneers and now i think there's going to be some action there i look at the larger spectrum, and by that, i mean, that if i look at the network news, and i look at cable-tv coming out "fox news" on the writing of ms. nbc is cnn on the left and i think it balances out because fox has

many hours of greater market shares the two combined about when you look at network news i don't see diversity in public tv i think that obviously cspan, the big support of ryan my was one of them and i think one of my favorite american so i public tv and things like cspan do a good job and try to get people diverse views which is essential not sure national public radio does as well predict and washington posted new york times and tribune and los angeles times, they are not diverse somehow doesn't translate quickly into the real world, that means that if you have a very controversial this what is happening and fourthly we have these court avdecisions that immediately become weapon eyes did. so i do not think that why nonwhite long island kenosha, when necessarily amend them on racial pathologies of the majority culture and i

understand mr. blake had been shot but that had been thoroughly investigated and had not been a civil't rights issue and so that rittenhouse trial for some reason is that the media the way they massaged and highly focusedus on the trial in the become a referendum month on race and then not more than 50 hours later we had the box shockingly and then you can make the argument that if you wanted to as a media seem to want to do, fixate on race, you could say that mr. brooks is 20 year career felonies had a history of not only anti-semitism, the white anti- white expression on social media and some of his songs and even call for violence againstit whites. killed six people and there were people know mainstream for bl

him but a self-appointed that suggest that there was sort of a revolution minor official democratics said while there were people who felt that was perhaps racially motivated but the point is, there was much more credence to the argument and there hadhe been a kenosha t that story was not justice mother this mother to the degree that when you look for the washington post, to take one example, his name is not even mentioned, days after the violence almost as if somebody else was possible the car crash, andsh collision an suv his peope as if it were on autopilot so this story in sort of things that when you do not have a diversity of opinion in a major news and is causing is on the media's interest because you have such hostility toward it by haveil to country when you start

to look at things like juicy small editorial fitted on away and because it is a trial and what about that but i'm talking about the initial reaction to it with the media is almost unanimous that this was a racial time when it was clearly evidence euros fine and i could go intond the matter or talk abt the kids but there is a pattern that when a certain story emerges, the mainstream media can use thatt term tries to weapon eyes it for legal advantages sometimes effects of her out and i think that to be more specific i think that hesitation like foxes had some problems and you see all of the network news and cnn is a special category wee saw with te chris, departure firing and it is had talk about kathy griffith

or some comments were made by some of their editors they were pretty gross more some of the departures of resignations that had because of bias, i'm really worried about it and i think that it is not healthy for constitutional states that the mainstream deliverance and so there are few conservative in your thinking will i can't find out what is happening coming can find out on the internet and you can find out some other avenuesot from radio but is much more difficult predict just saying this, the center on the desk media research at harvard i think six months the trump administration found that 93 percent of the news coverage trump was negative and away and not been true of either republican or democrat or prior administration. >> euros with victor david

hanson. >> what a greatat pleasure think you cspan and professor hansen for what you do and also professor, thank you for not attending the redundant article in my question is concerning timing amongst other things one of the signs of the collapse that keeps points out is loss of faith inn the elite by the many. i may be extrapolating on this point here but a tendency the reaction on the french left and right as two sides of the same coin. the write-ins to look towards

the past has golden age but never was in the left looks towards an idyllic future which can never be. >> i tell you what, let's go with what you laid out on the table there, loss of faith in the late, and the views the left and the right, victor davis hanson. >> i think that there is a compromise position and i think when you look at the founding let's say of the united states, it is true that the majority of the vast majority were white males representative of the times predict in united states that is the people had privilege money and education is not going to be inclusive but what was odd when i say audit because it did not happen anywhere else, we judge the past unnecessarily by the values of the present all of

the time because we have the benefit of hindsight and technology and moral development but when you look at other places in the world, there was simply no documented, the like the declaration of the intervention or the constitution because they had built and with ma implicit idea that in the case of the constitution whether you could demand and change things if you went through a constitutional process in the declaration said all man and susan said all men were created equally and eldon you know what that set off logical trajectory to quality where wee were or are now politically equality of opportunity and so i think it is good to acknowledge that there were people the sense of a record of the sins of humankind and will base america different is that there was an effort to institutionalize a myth method to change and regress and

improve and don't see it anywhere else in thehe world. there are things in the past and i grew up in a household where my mother had gone to stanford university and gotta be in the got another va stanford university and got a law degree at stanford university in 1946, and she was all for job is a legal secretary she came home and she went all over and got in her little card she drove all over and not one person would hire her even though i think it would argue for the first superior court judges in fresno county and i think the second one ofi the first court judges female diverted job pretty southerners institutionalize bias ahead of the and some not looking back in the past but the same token, as we talked about earlier, there was also a

stability to that society and i can tell you that i lost my wallet in california, at about four people call me within seven right times that i have done it and say, where are you from i get it delivered tonight a couple of people to hand deliver it i were to do that today that i haven't twice believe me, i have to run to the phone before you charge everything. so collectively as a society, we are progressing but individually, i don't know w whether it is a lack of religion or moral instructions, i'm worried that we are progressing politically had technologicalol progress is he is setting up the greek polis that you often get moral regress so when you look at memorial us in the ancient world and i'm talking about attorneys in a way that they are convinced that affluence and

leisure tends to be bring with them what they called luxury or decadent as i think the big problem that we are having now is that this modern sophisticated society, doesn't have a lot of labor and have a lot of appreciation for how hard it is to do certain things and there's an expectation or sense of entitlement to. i don't my grandfather came home is a mike on convicting a cataract out of my eye, can you believe that i can see and now that his routine's operation that is good but we don't have any appreciation of how difficult that operation is and so i think that we all have to take a deep breath and say you know, we want to have a the individualism as we progress in the sense that if the system needs to be changed, to ensure more equality of opportunity

can. >> everybody along with myself is wondering how did you lose your wallet so often. >> hello i lose it. >> it sounds like you and you and would lose your wallet quite often. >> will i am 68 but if you talk to people who know me, they would say i'm terribly absent-minded and right now i'm looking for my keys that are dropped somewhere. i probably threw it away in the trash accidentally and have a lot of important keys so unfortunately, anything that i've solve the problem i gotly e of these, i put it into my wallet in his electric beep on it and so left it once in the car under the seat i guess and i thought it had busted but i found it but i'm sure i have lost it more than that is easy years would've been very lucky, i've had at least six occasions in the 70s and 80s were people called me but not had one this millennium and two or three

times, i've had almost immediately carson i don't know how d people charge $500 of gasn two hours. >> let's hear from jane and joshua tree, california. >> thank you so much i have to just say, okay background brief on junior-college and circular to write a term paper so my high education really did not serve me well and we are about the same age as anand went to berkeley uc berkeley, and i was an honor student and let you know, there was no direction and you know, given the choice of american history is a basic point is that i had a can or i can choose california indian history which i did choose and was fascinated by but i want to go back and i want to say that getting my college education

from book tv and mark in history tv and literally have transcribed concert and conversation because i am just host fascinated by things that i didn't even think id would herbert hoover last night in the middle of the night talking about his education and upbringing with the idea of simplicity and public service without personal gain read and going back to washington farewell address, and worried about factions data my really really concerning about the upcoming elections because the idea of notifying federal law in oklahoma florida, we don't have to answer to washington, is that when the civil war was based on. >> jane a lot out there on the table for doctor hansen to respond to. >> all try to respond in the

last as i said earlier, the problem with nullification is when your side wants to know if i, they seemm to assume that the other side won't want to. soso if you were a state and you that you going to nullify a federal law that revolves around elections revolves around the endangered species act, you going to say that you are doingc it because california new york illinois has nullified the immigration law then there goi g to say, you did and so either all follow the federal system or none of them do with there is no concession in our system to say were morally superior to this person so then we get an exemption because we've answered hire or something like that so that's important as far as moaning, the constitution is clear on that national election pretty and it says that in

national elections, the say shall have primary responsibility although from time to time in the federal government, they can come in and without to limit things like suffrage which happened to an 18 -year-old but was words nationalizing so i think that what is wrong now is a people do not read the constitution and so people on the s right say the federal government cannot determine how state runs election at all and it can with international law that involves from time to time but it cannot say to a particular state, your state has to have first and last names and that is up to the state we have to have an id or not as i think that is the difference in the balance is what pretty well, with the right prices i think right now is, whenever your political

persuasion p is that in 2016, tweeted went to 40 million bail in ballots and absentee ballots and another worse 40 million, is about 42 percent no, even less than that what a largebu percentage of them were not cast on the auctioning almost immediately hillary clinton althoughhi she alleged that thee had been russian collision in the election was not legitimate, we are forgetting that we have a lot of celebrities that came in and i say you've got to carve ot electors nation often according to the state mandate and we had joe - ten overturn the election and we had wealth okay so the people questioned it but it was partly because we didn't have confidence in the auditing elections then we have the 220 elections on you think that donald trump lost the popular

vote but you have 102 million people, we never had experienced at this, especially because of covid-19 but 102,000,063 percent of electric did not vote on election day and some of them voted in so early that tradition in american politics, and the presidential debates, morning of the second debate sees millie people had already voted and so that is a new challenge that when you have some states who had traditionally had rejection rates after just 5 percent of the ballots but when you sworn the ballot the rejection rate because of inadequacy are the ballots goes from three - 5 percent down 2.3 or .4 by a magnitude of ten, the real loss of confidence i think in this next election we gotta decide ws a primary way of expressing support and if we do find, but if you want to go to mail valley come over and to be very careful that we don't we don't have so

many absentee ballots that is almost impossible to adjudicate all of them as legitimate and that is what the arguments are right now. >> in from springfield, virginia, referencing your 2018n book, the case for trump and he said is there a case for trump in 2024. >> everybody is asking there? ten right. on the right and conservatives and traditional's, i think that i know it is a little bit better coming on the let the people are torn from a different way a lot of people are thinking, i can't stand the guy and i don't want him to be president and other people say buddies probably given her own bleak prospect and he's the only person who will unite the left again and we can get so angry at him for babies probably the only guy we can be

because we beat themm and repeating twice in the popular votes i think •-ellipsis between wanting him and not wanting him write his horn as well and thert half of the people say that i like why think most of them if you look at the polls 90 percent say they like the energy and independence and that jacksonian foreign policy to go after so many nics and emanate i could use that and sanitized words, but you don't have optional military engagements on the run and you don'to go into syria ad you try to adjudicate the clerk's etc. okay you don't go into libya lebanon and you don't go back into etc. they like the idea of a flyover country needed to be industrialized to policies and deregulation and they like the results, low inflation pretty good gdp, and very low

unemployment, and people like myself critical about the spiraling debt and anytime a republican spends a lot of money since bad example because this credit because the party supposedly is fiscal sobriety although not sure that's true anymore. and so they say when everybody said they liked him but is broken down in half of the people say, even aftra for some without trump and means that we don't have the facebook detours or the twitter cul-de-sacs or gratuitous test and souls now have safe no no no, you don't understand, romney & come back and mccain come back and people controlled they left controlled so many institutions, you need an attack on the 24/7 so you know what i don't care about myself, i'm going to go after him and you know everybody's

against everybody so that's where they are and i think that realistically, so i don't sound trump plazaza nomination, i probably think more likely than not, he's probably going to win the nomination and he wins the nomination, i think people will say well, if he gets even rather than just mad, another was he has a detailed agenda and it does make some of the appointments, or steve bannon types of appointments bit more professional and more wisdom, is that going to have an and the other have safe no can have an character and i haven't taken a position on that in my recent ti voted for amp i thought that he was the first republican candidate that was able to appeal to constituency t that hd to things he appealed to the middle class in a way the republicans had not and he didn't say that he can't reach

47 percent of the population for he didn't say john mccain that he brought all of the crazies me up about predict other than was wise and he was starting to from the republicans he had a high ll of minority support more than 2016 or 2012 i think he was starting to crack the idea that whatever your particular ethnic or racial pride, is that you have a commonality of middle-class concerns about the price of energy, your job prospects and your wages, fuel costs, and job futures and nationalism and the populism and i was a very good thing for the republicans. .. that so there were certain things that explained why he won

the electoral college. >> host: let's hear from randy in louisiana. i really have enjoyed listening to you and i appreciate your doing it in such a calm and articulate manner pointing out these things. i'm looking forward to getting your book, i'd like to get all the books to tell you the truth. >> thank you for calling in, we appreciate the comment. >> doctor hansen, how are you ordoing? i'm african-american and i'm a trump supporter. i look forward to reading your case but i got a good question, i was telling the call screener, we have a baptist college named louisiana christian university in louisiana, will you be doing a book tour, do you do book

tours to the different colleges and universities? i'll take my answer off the air. god bless you. >> the book came out october 5 so i went for week and i did a lot and now i stopped. one of my concerns is we have put so much emphasis on amazon and i think there run by computer algorithms but the book came on october 5 as number two and number three during the day on amazon and 48 hours later it was out of stock and stayed that way for ten days so if you wanted to buy the book even though they had basic books 30,000 copies on hand, i don't know if it was a supply problem but there is a sense when you look at books coming out this hiweek by scott or peter navarr,

there is a sense we want to know why they are out of stock. i think my book today is out of stock even though thousands of copies have been printed. we need more diversity in the bookselling business, support independent stores, support barnes & & noble and alternativ, i buy a lot on amazon but however they adjudicate out of stock or whatever they are not necessarily, they've lost the trust of a lot of authors especially on the conservative side, i wish we a had more diversity. >> victor davis hanson published by basic books, a publisher for a long time. philip in los angeles, good morning to you. >> thank you very much.

as a conservative living in southern california, how do you view -- the left has in terms of aspects of our culture including education, media, even sports and the military and my second related to that as a citizen of california, is it hopeless to be a conservative republican? i'll take your answer off-line. >> thank you for that question. that's a lot to answer. we look at california and let's be honest, there's a super majority in the two state legislatures. there is no attorney general or control or governor or lieutenant governor who is the public and. of the 53 congressional

districts representatives, i think 11 are republican so it is a model of state and there are pockets of conservative in the inland empire and san joaquin valley, especially of north so geographically about two thirdso of the state are conservative but two thirds population was from berkeley to san diego 15 miles and lived his liberal so we know that from the south one-party system, it's not a healthy system, it's a good to have a two-party system. whenever you don't have, people are not adjudicated, bad things happen so i'm worried about that but the way i am confident though because i think what is happening is the left said diversity is our future ande demography is our future and welcome illegal immigration and

demonize a lot of the middle class. they were happy, i'm quoting almost literally, a prominent silicon valley, we want people to leave california. they are the wrong people here bill crystal said why don't we replace the people and bring in new people? the sense that immigration was welcome for political purposes but what happens especially with latinos, if i could use that as a proper term, but especially mexican-american people and a lot of african-american people is they are looking not at the border where the rhetoric of the politics, they are saying themselves why am i paid the second-highest bill in the country, why do i have the highest into the services most reliable. why are they dismantling when

it's sufficient and has a good record and the glazes will only go up. why haven't we built in 40 years. why are schools rated 45 on test scores when they are well-funded, why is the infrastructure if you go down to 101 or 109 and when we have the highest income tax. you pay so much because you get so little and of these so i'm very confident most of the people i know in my hometown are not a so-called white but they

are very conservative and i don't know if that is the right word but they say i don't really care just because people who look like me are coming across the border illegally in texas. they've been vaccinated and i think the class is starting to reinsert assault in california and starting to look at the powers that be in california. we are talking mostly about the $6 trillion of the market capitalization in silicon valley and caltech, usc, berkeley, la, stanford and the spinoff industries finance. it's all on the coast and a lot of those people are very wealthy and kind of insulated on the ramifications of their own ideologies they tend to put their kids in prep school or parochial school and they are

very prounion and against charter schools or they don't believe in water transfers, the lifeblood of the valley, but they are dependent on hedging or they don't mind 27 cents a kilowatt because the climate 65 to 75 is not like it is here so a lot of people are waking up to that a real diversity of political opinion that we don't have now. >> host: victor davis hanson in your book, "the case of trump," you refer to them as a monolithic rainbow coalition. what does that mean? >> guest: what, i mean, by that is if i were to go to most universities and i would say in

class, if i were asked i wouldn't go off topic but if people knew my opinion and i were to say that i don't like racially segregated safe spaces really don't think that young people should preselect their roommate on a basis of race i don't believe in separate graduations i would be in big trouble and that is monolithically if they were classically liberal democrats that agreed with me, i don't think they would voice their opinion. i'm not being theoretical. the stanford faculty senate focused on neil ferguson and to the president and myself in a

way that they didn't bring similar scrutiny to other people who the crime was to be in the national news or something that suggests that liberal orthodoxy was flawed because i couldn't quite see what the complaint was that they chose, there was the motion to investigate the hoover institution. so it's monolithic and i think you saw that with "the new york times," she was dismissed and you can see belmar is under enormous attack because -- and so is dave chapelle. larry summers was severely criticized and yet everybody says the republican party is

monolithic and it's got all different groups. they are being controlled by this ideological movement of small ideological base and the bill clinton democratic leadership council people are terrified of so there's not a diversity of thought, it's monolithic. if nancy pelosi or bill clinton were hillary clinton or chuck schumer said it should be legal, diverse and should lead to assimilation as they did either in 92 or 96 with the democratic convention, they would be ostracized and politically ruined today. >> host: you write often for a

group called the independent institute, but you also left the national review after 20 years, saying i think they were happy to see me go. why do you say that? >> guest: i'm not affiliated with the independent institute. that's one of i guess 40 or so people who pick up my column and one of my columns i write for american greatness is syndicated and the other one isn't and they can either be a syndicated buyer, not many but if you and i have a regular call for american greatness. i see that they are buying it a lot because i have that question a lot.

for "the chicago tribune" it is the home for it and i write one exclusively for american greatness. it's funny in 2001, they had dismissed the column that we should i don't know what it is i don't want to say something that's not entirely accurate but she's written a controversial article about retaliation about saudi arabia because they were the home of the majority and they decided not to run it. i got a call from the editor that i didn't know in 2001 on 9/11 that said can you write for us a column we need something quick. we've had to dismiss someone. and i ended up being there for 20 years and i wrote two columns a week, excuse me, 11 years and for nine years that meant i had a ruptured appendix and libya

but to get my column to the national review and then sometimes to calls. there were changes in the national review and i didn't think the big break came i think they would say during the trump years. of the majority of the republican party was going to nominate them as the flagship conservative magazine. they should have a case for trump and against and i voiced my opinions on that and i was in a distinct minority and then i

think i was a little critical on the covington kids for some people they said something about that that they were somehow culpable or they were wrong or mr. phillips was a distinguished combat veteran. we had disagreements and as trump became more controversial if i were to be careful he represented in the modern times the john burke society william buckley had ostracized in the republican movement and they felt in the spirit of that is the continuation of buckley policies that it was their job to excise but my problem was 91% of the republican party had voted for them and he brought eight to 10 million people back

into the political process. they had not 151% since 1988 the presidential vote and they lost seven out of the last eight popular elections and that was at a time that they won very well for the state and local level under the obama administration but they were not appealing on the class terms to a lot of working people of the democratic party had seemed to have given up on. there was one article somebody asked me and said i didn't think that it was my job to be the internal auditor. i've never been a registered republican. i was a democrat and independent of though i vote for more republicans than not but i felt

that i was a problem for them and i think if people were to look at what i wrote versus what was being written, this was before 2000, january, 2021. i think they did voiced my warnings after 2021, january 20th that the assumption that it was joe biden from scranton would reject a bill clinton type that they could get behind. it was going to be a hard left agenda and if you look at the national view today it is at the forefront of criticizing the biden administration that i think raises the question were they surprised were not. i have no animus towards them.

i still go to it and read a lot of articles i just think that on this issue unfortunately, it became kind of the issue and i didn't feel like, there were people that were not happy and i didn't -- i wanted them to be happy. >> host: thanks for hanging on. you are on with victor davis hanson. >> caller: thank you very much. i'm a conservative by nature, social moderate, survivor of childhood trauma and a product of overcrowded and underserved education. fifty-eight and still working on educating myself. if you have an understanding of mortgage-backed assets being traded on wall street and the effect on home prices across america. thank you very much, god bless you. i don't know you but i love you.

>> host: anything to comment? >> guest: whether we talk about the mortgage-backed assets or unsustainable scenario where we have an annual inflation rate of 6% and may be people are suggesting that at the end of the year could be seven or even eight and get the interest rates for mortgage loans are one or 2% what we are doing is encouraging people to buy houses that are overpriced and the supply versus the demand out of the synchronization. it is for the prices that are not affordable but because of the interest rate, they are buying into it, which is okay because some of them are 30 year loans with 2.8% but what happens if they lose their job, they have almost no equity

whatsoever. then they think they can flip them and what i'm getting at there's a lot of the conditions that we saw in 2008. it's almost like we've learned nothing and have forgotten. i'm very worried about the financial situation in general and of the mortgage industry in particular that is starting to resemble 2008. you may get 5% or 6% but you are not appointed with flipping houses and you don't know the intricacies. you may or may not have a 4o1k but you don't know how to invest in stock so right now you are getting about 1% but it's losing

five to 6% annually due to inflation so we are witnessing a massive transfer of wealth away from the middle class to people that are investors and some of them are just really getting income disparity. i would like to see the middle-class be able to say i worked hard, follow the rules, i saved, i've got $35,000 of my life savings on getting five or 6% and that is 3% over inflation rather than being punished, i'm supposed to go out and invest or flip houses in a way that i had no idea how to do that. i'm speaking for myself as well. i don't know how to do that. >> host: let's make sure in

the last ten minutes of the program we get in victor davis hanson's favorite books into some of what he's currently reading. favorite books include winston churchill's "the history of the second world war," joseph conrad "victory history of the peloponnesian war," john keegan "the fees of battle," edward gibbon, "the history of the decline and fall of the roman empire," this is what doctor hanson is currently reading. andrew roberts, "the last king of america," david mammoth on the "recessional's," and barry strauss, "the war that made the roman empire." salvador texts into you from new york city, given the now almost complete closing of the american mind that alan bloom spoke of 30 years ago, what do you see as the glimmers of hope?

>> guest: i think there's a popular distrust of what i would call technocrats and people that are not elected and we can see that about the administrators. the idea that we have this professional education lobby and they are dictating to policies and suggested the parents have no input on a variety of controversial topics, we saw that backlash and uprising in virginia and it's kind of sweeping the country and i think there was outrage when general millie said he called up the chinese counterpart. we never had a chair the joint chiefs even suggests that and i think people had enormous confidence and wanted to support doctor fauci but when he said

masks are not viable but you should wear a mask or to masks and we want to reach a herd immunity to 60, 70, 80 or 90% or i'm against mandates but i know we have to have a mandate so he downplayed natural immunity which we know in many cases could be comparable to acquire vaccination or he denied even the possibility of the research grant. people say you know what, ultimately you get back to the idea that the forms especially the middle class they are independent of these people and any time they concede political power whether it is the nsa, the

doj, the cdc then you will have bad things happen and you have to hold of them to account and make sure that you are consistent and tell the truth. when they say something that isn't true under oath and they have to be subject to the same consequences. any of the people listening would be if they said something to an irs investigator. >> host: next call from claudia in california. please go ahead. >> caller: hello, doctor hanson. i'm a big fan. my question is pretty straightforward. i am an independent and terribly underrepresented by both parties and yet to become a candidate or grow a citizens congress seemed impossible because both parties seemed to be in lockstep against

the average citizen running for office, and because they are the ones making all the rules it feels as though the deck is stacked against the average middle class and definitely the poor income citizens. what solutions do you think would allow us to get rid of all of the entrenched professionals in congress and allow us to have a congress represented by people like me -- >> guest: i didn't believe in term limits but i'm starting to believe that it is a wise idea. the problem is that a person that goes into the state legislatures as an assembly person and then turned out they go to a state senate that is the problem. i think term limits are not a good solution but they are a helpful solution. i think that's important.

we saw people in new jersey and virginia and i think it's good to vote for people that have a different background. they don't come out of the political legal nexus. i like the idea of voting for people in business and all sorts of business, farming, ranching, small business person. i don't think a corporate ceo or professional politicians or lawyers necessarily invest background for politicians so a lot of people start to agree with that or i should say i'm agreeing with a lot of people and especially people coming out from the lower ranks of the military. i'm a skeptical of people with one, two, three, four stars, generals, admirals because so often they evolved from a corporate board into government. after retiring from the

corporate board and back to the corporate defendants. a lot of that enlisted. >> host: mike, detroit. good afternoon. >> caller: good afternoon. i wonder if doctor hanson could address who and what the democratic party has become, because it is the polar opposite of the world war ii generation and it seems like they curse everybody that won't go along with the radical destructive agenda and won't put the party above the welfare of the nation. >> guest: i grew up in a democratic household. my grandparents were sort of agrarian populists. my grandmother resided at the cross of gold by william james bryant, not that i would to say he was a model for what i

believe in, but the point is they were strong democrats. my father flew 40 missions on a b-29. he is first cousin who i'm named after was kind of adopted when his mother died on okinawa and we always got the flag out. veterans day, you name it, it was on our house. very proud of the united states. my mom was the same way, and if they were democrats. what i'm getting at is there was no sense of conservative or rural democrats and they were very strong civil rights advocates. i can remember when i was 12-years-old we got in the car to go all the way up to the cathedral to hear martin luther king's speech. my mother detoured because she found a list of african-american people who might not have access and would have to take the bus. we picked up three women who we

fitted a very small car. the eight of us and drove in. we didn't know where to park at that time. we walked all the way up. it was over packed. when the doors started to close, my mom literally pushed me in and i was the only one of the party that got to hurt him speak. they were classical liberal, and this idea that today you cancel somebody else because you don't agree with them or you tear down statues without a consensual vote of the city council, or you rename things without any consistency, it's kind of trotskyite we are washing away people and names are ideas that we don't like command we are not doing it in the light of day with necessarily always on a majority vote or a constitutional means or we are berating people, we are suspending free speech or due process on the campuses. so this is in the democratic party that a lot of us knew.

>> host: victor davis hanson's most recent book is called "the dying citizen of progressive deletes tribalism and globalization are destroying the ideas of america." doctor hanson, thank you for re- joining us on "in depth" on the senate will be back monday 3:00 p.m. eastern, law masers are expected to debate president biden's federal reserve nominees including rainer, to serve as vice chair. lisa cook whose if confirmed, would be the first black woman to serve on the board. when congress returns, will have live coverage of the house on c-span. watch the senate on c-span2 an online see standout work or are free video at c-span now. ♪♪ c-span now is a free mobile up

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