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tv   Free Black and Revolutionary War Privateer James Forten  CSPAN  July 4, 2022 10:00pm-11:01pm EDT

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>> squatting in a diner for internetwork is even harder. that's why we are providing lower income students access to affordable internet. so homework can just be homework. cox connect to compete. >> along with these television companies, supporting c-span2 as a public service. >> .. be excited to welcome this evening performance and excitinf original play commissioned by the museum. i'm joined by as the founder of black history longtime collaborator with the museum in our living history project are diversified living initiative.
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and after the performance of going to vacate my seat and give it up to michael idriss longtime philadelphia has been the brains by this incredibleca plate you'e going to see the historical advisor on this piece written by percy candidate you will see performed by tran j h. we are excited to be doing a lot with james were destroyed not just now when you can visit you will hear more about later, also in the future we've got exciting programming and exhibitions about the important family mcoming up. i don't distill any of that thunder print going to let you ask questions of layla, mike later. feel free to drop questions into the chat during the performance or after words. kalela will be monitoring that in selecting questions for these guys to answer. so without further ado take your seats and meet james forten.
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my dear brother-in-law. this is ready to take us to england. it is almost time to set sail. a voyage, a new opportunity. i know this kind of journey is familiar to you, but this is a new adventure for me. this is my home. the noise of the war, the megant different accents and languages, irish, german, west indians, west african, british, i've spent years watching the arrival and departure of ships filled with traded goods like this one. holding cargo, i was in awe of
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the ships carpenters. shaping the wood and repairing damage in each ships most recent voyage. i especially loved watching the sailors twice the sale. you know how much we'll talk about my father, thomas broke my father taught me too read. food practice practice reading scripture or follow the teaching and warns of the hymns that we sing on sunday. as a boy i followed him where he worked alongside white and black men. my father was meticulous in his work. he paid careful attention to every sale he corrupted. i would sit close to him watching as he laid out the canvas across the floor and cut out the shape of the sale.
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the sales, the sales were so big they had to be hoisted through the window. i had to stay clear of the wastes are not to get knocked down by their size and weight. when i got older my father began teaching me sale making. i helped by sweeping the floor, taking over scrap canvas to preserve the usable pieces. i would have beeswax for sewing, honey and spell at my fingertips. my father gave me this sale making. i learned how to use it stretching the canvas for grommets but i even learned how to sew a few canvas pieces myself. by the end of the day my hands were step and ached from all the work. liked about english father reminded me god would indeed bless us if we followed the work
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of the lord and not of men. eventually he ventured on his own making a few sales here and there. i was proud to be following in his. footsteps. i imagine that would be my work some day until he died when i was seven years old. after a father's death myar mother, margaret receiving an education was the next important step. she sought the help of anthony i still admire her for that. asking a white quaker teacher to take me as a student. probably helped always rated point out the contradiction between slavery and the christian doctrine. he knew we could achieve the same thing as white people. i think most of society sees us as inherently flawed, lazy, at
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least when i am making a profit for them. for some people like robert bridges see us for who we are. they people with a rich culture and history. but then again robert bridges is a slaveholder himself. that is the corruption, slavery. my mother and sister, your dear abaco provided for the household education i was only at school for two years before i had to to find work. i had heard of other free african children being forced into indentured servitude if they are their parents were found to be a burden on society. being forced to work until they were 24 years old. how would that help them or their families?
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i did whatever i could to support my family pretty picked up odd jobs here and there, running up and down sweeping floors, stocking shelves, sometimes iran errands. i might've stopped school but did not stop learning. i read the bible, the newspaper, the pamphlets i would come across in the street. news of the rebellion was everywhere. frightening and exciting at the same time. people are in the city boycotted reports from new england about conqueror concorde and bunker hill. the revolution had begun. this rebellion mean for africans? the enslaved africans did much
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of the same work as a white dirty men. their only hope and aspiration is one day they would be free. maybe it's a cycle first shoot work your life away to try to earn your freedom like myy grandfather. i want to get it you work your life away try to keep it. her at a pamphlet by thomas paine thomas like my father simpered he was someone who showed us the error of our ways. how could americans say they were slaves to british tyranny when their actual slaves among them? enslaved by this very same people who scream the loudest about worker plantation i knew there two wars being fought around. one was for that liberty and independence of america. one was for that liberty and independence of all americans.
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i was at the statehouse when they read our declaration of independence. i weaved in and out of the crowds trying to get as close as i possibly could. we hold these truths to be self-evident. all men are created equal. they are endowed by their creator with an amiable right among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. that was how i know we are all equal. we deserve life, liberty and happiness. how to read and write because of this truth. thomas paine's pamphlet spreadt the word declaration made it
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real. but sometimes freedom wears a red coach. the british offer freedom to enslaved africans who abandoned. some of us found a liberty that way. i can only judge the people that join their cause. what else might the british give free africans in exchange for theirha loyalty? might it be better than they would get innate newly forced nation? who held the greater promise? which side to choose? for me there was no question. the declaration rang in my ears. this was my price for independence, liberty and the futurefr. i'm enslaved africans were granted emancipation. maybe optus fight we could get opportunities and maybe even citizenship.
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but i had to beg my mother to let me go and fight. after the fight n was here off e navy mind you this was a better chance. join a private ship and set sail and in no small incentive a chance at monday premier commission to capture enemy s ships and keep the profits as our own. so i risk my life for the revolution and also provide for my family. i choice captain steven decatur joined as a powder boy at the young age of 14. my job was to transport the gunpowder from the ships hold to the canons on deck we were a motley crew. the only african aboard the royal louis, i was one of few people that could read and write his name.
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but really, none of that mattered. our lives were in each other's hand. we were alone was not as important as well they were together. i crew and our first cruise on the royal louis was a success. we captured ships from new york, down to charleston, south carolina. many of these ships surrendered without a single shot. and when i returned home i was in good health with the money and my pocket and the glory of victory in my heart. i turned 15 day i watch the continental army march the streets of philadelphia. the rhode island regiment nola to all african companies march probably bite.
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and brave men as ever fought. they were determined, unstoppable and i was two. we were doing our part to call out our place in the new country. i was only home a few days before were put to sea i was ready to capture more british ships. but we were not as untouchable as i thought. we sailed over the horizon and right into british hands. i knew that could be a possibility but as a prisoner from my white shipmates and at best there be exchange. butpt for me, i've heard of othr captured africans shipped to the west indies. slavery in the cane field?
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i was terrified but kept the lessons of my parents in the church close to her. i promised my self up and taken prisoner for the liberties of my country. that kept me alive. they guided me even from easy ways out. because the british captains to go to england were education and new opportunities await. it was a good offered anyone in my position could only hope to achieve something more thancr sweeping floors stacking crates. but i refused. i had sailed too far to abandon the cause now. on the cost of that decision was
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dessert meant. even the single word is horrible to me now. a ship with the mast cut off, anchored in new york harbor. a blood eat prison filled the men and boys younger than i met daniel only 13 years old but it did not matter whether we were black or white. free or enslaved. we were literally in this together. short rations and cleaning the ship on the lower deck. there was sickness and death everywhere. the hole filled with prisoners held tightly together. the stench was on bearable and it was unforgettable.
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sometimes i wonder if this is what it felt like to be held on a slave ship? escape seemed impossible. men who tried to swim ashore risk to miles of open water park there lucky enough to get over undetected they still had to get along the island which was under the control of the british. we schemed of course a one time i came very close in a prison officer was to be exchanged and he would take his sea chest with him. i was just small enough to fit inside covered by his clothing. but so was daniel and he was two years younger and in far worse shape than me. so i switch places for my white brother inn arms. i helped him in and wished him
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well. i thought i could wait it out and be exchanged. and slowly my name moved up the ledger. each month i knew i was getting closer and closer to freedom. i was on the jersey for seven months. the war ended before my name ever came up. that was just a year ago. so i walked shoeless from brooklyn to where i received aid before arriving in philadelphia. the war had ended but i had missed most of the celebrating. my reward is reuniting with a healthy daniel putin. and i certainly did not think i will be ready to return to the sea again so soon, william.
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but when the wind shifts we must trim our sales to suit. our revolution is only just begun and the horizon have open wide. i cannot let my parents down. i have a good foundation and the lord said in the gospel too muc is given much is required. the problem is i am not sure what i'm required to do. i knowea i could do more than wt i've done already but i frisked my life for a nation independence. my family and our people. philadelphia will be here when we get back and who knows he might just learn a thing or two in london for the british after all. enough of this talk. it's time to put to sea and find out what kind of voyage we are in for.
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asked so in this painting you actually get to seat 15-year-ole james forten always broke that. james child was born september 2, 1766. daughter's 15th birthday fortune is seen troops of the rhode island regiment as they link withh washington's troops n their way to yorktown. it's an awesome scene to see james forten given that moment of reflection with this hat in the middle there you can see as these members of the rhode island regiment put down the african-american members of this particular group will been through. so just an awesome scene. we are just getting ready for our actor john eight that are moderator kalela will be
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moderating. >> appreciate hello everyone thank you so much for coming. >> yes thank you. that was amazing. so gosh, so many questions. so many questions to ask. let's start with the idea of why we are all here tonight. why are we here? what does james forten story tell us today? >> for me james forten story is what is so critical as a person of african descent who as a 9-year-old witnessed the words of the declaration of independence, being read by sheriff john nixon for the very first time, places him and a very integral point in american history. and then to see a free person of african descent making decisions to decide how, and my life am i going to choose to serve this
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country. he is seeing events as a young manhe in the city where the firt continental congress, the second continental congress is taking place. while this is happening in young james life. to think he will serve as a privateer and then go on to do incredible work as a sales maker but connecting network to other pursuits something that's really important and something we need to center to think about. >> thank you. before we go to nay and emma quickly asked that question again. there is little bit of a glitch with my sound. the question is what does james forten story have the tells today? >> all right. for me at tell such a great story of hope and tenacity. the fact he did all of that and is very short 18 years of life. to do so much in so little time.
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i think that is very inspiring. not only to think about what america is. imagine what america could be. we see that in action but he let's daniel bruton go in places himself. that is equal that rings true for him, that a quality. >> thank you, thank you. that was a really compelling start of this piece. it is really great how there is new talent brought in. and then he directed the pieces someone we've worked with many times. at a who wrote the play is someone he began his work with. michael this question is for you. can you talk about the conception of this to the ground up in creating this program from the ground up?
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>> to understand, there is so much of james forten's life you want to unpack by the hardest part is boiling it down. so to look at just his service as a privateer was really important. like nathan just said he managed to do so much in a short period of time. his connection into the cell making trade from his father up until the age of seven or he has to make a shift into pursuing his education pay but then also taking up odd jobs to support the family. but then again saying the backdrop of all the things taking place not just in philadelphia but up and down the colonies at that time. then decided he wants to serve. to put it altogether it becomes incredibly compelling breaks up the incredibly rich.
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i think that is really where this begins to take shape. we started by learning objectives. one of the things ier want to do is how -- where and how we want individuals who meet james forten freaked outch with him ot to be an incredible untouchable hero. so that you can feel the beat is the neighborhood he is in. and giving some lift to who he is under sense of the spaces you would encounter in his young life. to start from there focusing on ways to bring that space out. but to understand we wanted to put that all together into real educational component that was also very entertaining as well. our excel of the physicality of this. and my question is for you.
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human doing this for quite a bit. what was it like becoming james forten as a young man. like stepping into this role and what's it like happening in this world right now? >> absolutely. youus know in the beginning thee was -- i really had to focus on getting all the lines down and things of that nature. once i began to get comfortable with the set and i was really able to play on think about what could james be thinking in these moment what is it mean to hear these moments the declaration of independence for the first time. what is it mean to be in the different settings. i'm just so grateful and honored to be able to do this.
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i think it is such a pleasure to publisher this information with so many people. i try to treat each performance as the first performance. >> the performance really does just embodies the space. my next question you mentioned the painting which is right behind us, where action a whole gallery of his paintings. it's right behind us. how did this inform both the production of this, the creation of this as well as the performance of this piece? >> it comes onto the visuals. it's always great to have a multisensory experience. and to know the moment, to read it, the reflection of it and to read the book a gentleman of color. it is incredible. but then to see it to come tooa life the dirt roads think being
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a 15-year-old's and what that means. and then of course the iconic space that in this painting is not independence hall quite yet. it is the statehouse able to center this iconic image of america. and you have a young man of african descent to be right at the center of this how it changed his life and his reflection of looking at other men of african descent much through philadelphia in their regiment, but their hunting shirt the threat of connection for its interracial connection. some are older than james some have been around potentially the age of hisso father. it is just being able to see your self reflected in other people. which i think is very powerful. it's a great scene that often is
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not something one can close their eyes and imagine but you do not have to do that any longer. this actual visual to it. >> absolutelyy absolutely. something i think about, something i focus in on is the udust rising seeing all the people marching along. imagining how loud that must be an exhilarating. i think there must've been sods much excitement and invigoration and seeing the regiment cross. >> i love how the paintings really speak to the museum itself. the idea of noise, sound, and walked to the exhibition. you can hear people whispering. you can hear people shouting break my next question nathan is also for you.
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can you talk about how a student group -- how is speaking the student groups different from speaking with general audiences? is there a difference? >> is a bit of a f difference. the time being a lot of educational performances are over resume. very similar to the performance tonight where i am performing by myself in a room. all of the other school groups ask questions and things of that nature. ist really have been very excitd by their questions. they have some very challenging ones. whether to we aso, an artist but also how do i relate to james forten? i think one question they might have asked you today but why do you think he allowed to go into the sea chest instead of going
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himself? very thought-provoking questions. i am just so excited that students at this young age of the young age they are at are able to receive all this rich information. >> thank you. going back to the beginning of this t again, the idea of how te creation of this was informed by primary sources. can you tell us versatile what are primary sources and how did they inform this piece? >> what things most challenging about this work is getting the actual voice of the person. especially when you're talking about descendents of african descent. it is not always a large body of letters the individuals themselves were able to write. we are very fortunate with james
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forten to have a good collection of letters to family, to friends, to politicians, to intermediaries. other people in business the scope he is working with. with james corresponds with his family as well. that rich resource helps us to be able to find phrases in his life that speaks to nathan's performance. one of the things i love is when he talks about never giving upke his allegiance to his country. those are actually james forten's words to hear his voice and i just really important to note is words of words that you
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read. obviously her reading a script is enhance the way you perform them? similar to not wanting to be a traitor i fail too far to abandon the cause now. to say that and to think that i am in it now were going to have to see this through. >> thank you. i have a question about you. it's incredible of his boyhood parade this us a story of him from age 14 to the age of 18. he was a young man. my question is, to joe her
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experiences as a teenager, as a young man, so that inspirednd anyway. were you able to draw from any experiences? i'm sure he did not spend it on a prison ship. brew able toou draw from any experiences or insights as your younger self? anyway he can pull from that to take with you to this performance? >> it is a good question. i think something in my view but i imagine james to be is someone that isoc very -- out of a socil butterfly is the appropriate word. that's what i see him as in the sense he's moving i think i first read the script and he was at his father's sail loft doing work and things of thatt nature. i think he was seven. as a 7-year-old that it's a much
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different thing. you have to be as a child you have to be so talkative but also very focused. i think that something i really related to. also being a bit of a social butterfly. not as focused in my youth. definitely something i appreciate. >> it's always humbling when yor talk about children in the revolutionary era. you see the handwriting and their calligraphy near just like what? [laughter] do you feel like there are some experiences as you are creating this you couldn't visioning this. >> taking in the sights and sounds. there is another generation that saw what was unfolding. like you might've seen the seven
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years war. i does not seem as encompassing as the revolution. and it kind of think of what james is seeing what they are doing. potentially as well. add that to the mix. just the other young men he is coming in contact with. captain baisley's children, two sons. the individual to might've got to a school with@day school. it really does give you insight into the lives of young people but what's really important is that is transferable to what young people actually see the play itself they think wow he was doing all of this. he's picking up the scrap pieces, doing all these different -- pretty tough work. doesn't sound he's pooh-poohing that because at the time he
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lived. it's important young people are not always placed with the context of today and to oft individuals who lived in the past we can give james that space and others that live in that space as well some intentionality. some connection with the world in which they live. >> i want to go back to this idea of the items, what we know. how do we know what james look like? also, how is that used in terms of creating this image of him? >> looks really cool about this eis in between two privateer excursionse. you look at james forten of some money in hisis pocket. nathan says i've got money in my pocket. that's awesome it is explaining what it means to be g a privater
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of the bounty of some ofer the things you were able to procure from other ships. how there is some pride in t swagger in his step. i go get your hair cut, for james there is pride in your posture and to feel that. that is a real connective symbolism i think people caniv appreciate. i guess you got another clear window into his life. >> we do have an image of james forten that has arrived as an older person. as historical society of pennsylvania. o we have a replica of it here. we have an image of him here. so we actually do have a portrait of him. >> it's really cool because nathan's costume is what a sailor someone who is working at sea would have been wearing. the behavior of his are stylized
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ways of doing that. dangling your shoe and a swagger way those who work at sea. when it shifts individuality to it as well you couldn't really appreciate the fullness of his costume. exit goes to my next question has to do with what we wear. you as an actor used a costume. are you used to work hand sewn absolute historic accurate to the best of our knowledge garment like what you're wearing today? what you are wearing somebody actually sewed it by hand the way it would have been done by plum or perhaps a sister back when he wass this age. how does it feel to embody this? >> is such a great help to figure out how you are able to
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move regards to the shoes. they do not have a lot of grip. on the tile floor i have to reallyly walk. [laughter] in regards to even the pants. typically they were the scrap not used for sales. and i am really, really warm. a skinny use of various aspects of this outfit. it helps inform me what were the things possible, range of motion and different things like that. i don't add really fast the one thing that is so interesting to me was the string. while i do have buttons on my pants there is a short trip shoe string on back used as a belt. if you can think of sweat pants
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but backwards to tighten them it's different. >> it's always interesting on some who's done historical interpretation. it is interesting that you haveu underpinnings. for women you have stays. >> there says in the museum and costume i had dropped something and had pick it up for me. this is awkward. you have any insights as you working and costume working in this historically accurate? >> yes. one of the individuals i take on a persona would have been an elder to james a philadelphia baker being able to tell hise story. someone who would've work with james later in hise. life. someone cyrus and daughter would have worked with new young james forten as well. that particular costume there is
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an iso apron that goes with it. it is just something rich about being in costume. something you can transfer and change someone's concept especially people of african descent. what that looks like. there's limited thoughts based on a person standing if he was enslaved or if he was free of what their work were like. these individuals contributed in so many ways from their skill set from their contributions and engagement with their community. so all of that can be encompassed just by being in costume and giving life and image to something that is not given a visual very often. but it's interesting this idea of community. we've all would've known each other i portrait a
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schoolteacher. also note known as eleanor harris. it's very interesting. we would know each other. weird thing a list in my head is almost like stepping back in time. my next question is an audience question. it's a compelling question. can you comment on protruding as a free person but he is living with the trauma knowing his people are enslaved. that fear ofd being captured and sold into slavery as well. >> absolutely. very interesting vantage point that jamesn had.g there is a bit of privilege that many were afforded during that time. but to know at any moment that could be really taken away.
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and he said possibly going into the cane fields and different things like that. there were instances in his life you're getting very close to that line. >> it is so interesting during the performance and you're in the ship he think this is what it must be like. i wonder if that's was like the way the lived experience for speaking to an ancestral experience. >> yes absolutely. and giving positive take that into account. what the possibilities were. the differences between wife officers potentially being in prison for the entirety of the war wherever that might of been
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at that time. versus never seeing your family again as a potential consequence for you. doing labor in the space so far away disconnected from your family at the end result document he is 15 or member. so who would you discuss this with? how do you build community? it talks about that he does build community. the think it's important to knod that as a sailor that strong connection of men of african descent you talk about motley crew james is probably more educated than many of those men. there are potentially relationships as far as building trust. people know who james is and what his responsibilities were. inch important to think how he
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ingratiate himself there. but then coming out as a free person of african descent understanding how many people he sees in philadelphia. philadelphia is a largely a free people during james' early years. he is also very much e seeing people in philadelphia in the position of that as well. this will again undergird the rest ofwi his life in the works that he will do. >> we x have a message from a dissenter his saying thank you, nay for that heartfelt performance. that makes him extremely proud to be a direct descendent of james forten. very cool. it's just amazing. could you talk about the importance in the power of genealogy in your work? >> it is what we use it gives us
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that map. it is so much more than a family tree. talk about timelines that you can put certain dates up against what else is going on locally, statewide, and nationally to put things into context. also just sick more people decide to breakak off. there's so many important components to it. but to take that skyview and how long their family has been here in philadelphia. going back to the pen and the founding of the city. this was a space context for the
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family originated and where it is today and where we are here. >> absolutely. it is such an amazing thing. one, such an honor to be able to perform for a descendent of james forten. that is amazing for the ability to track your lineage in such a way. my family personally unable to track a few generations. for me i knew my great-grandmother. i think passing on the baton and james as children really continue to work abolitionist work. i'm really help continue his legacy keep his legacy going. i imagine this has encourage you to study more.
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>> absolutely. i'm one that doesn't know much about my mother's side of the family. before the speed of our site out. and it being able to go back to their families. it's so wonderful we have a lot of friends of the museum who have they began to stitch their family legacy together. we have such great friends to continue to help us and inspire us the backgrounds of the past. survive all these experiences. it's a fortune for us.
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but the adult life and his abolitionist work as an activist? i'd be remiss if i did not start. we talked about his wife charlotte and how they work together establish goals. they link up with the society. helping to establish pennsylvania hall. that is incredible. but then thinking about what james said in taking over robert bridges business. he starts just doing odd jobs. when the ready to retire to
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start that to take over the business. if it think for a lot of respects mid century of that in more. a lot of responsibilities taking on as well. >> i'm glad you mentioned important women. even into the far 19th century where we have charlotte his granddaughter a lot of important people who did amazing things. going forward but also be hoping to discover about james horton? about black revolutionary war soldiers? what else are we looking to discover?
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how would that be brought to life you're at the museum? >> going forward on up meeting it is just amazing how much in the past fears is happening here. there is so much to build upon. to incorporate nathan's work at other pieces to this play as well. we would see it life one day. it is a constant was right down the street from where the museum was today.
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feel the connections to spaces and places and his family and really all of those that worked around him from richard allen's to the -- is in front of both of his consolation people put together protective got a few minutes left. went as an audience question at the great question. nathan, was the best question you got from a kid about your performance? >> question. i think it would probably be how i most relate with james forten. other like one of the questions was to the effect what was your
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funniest mess up? i was so honest. >> the question i want to wrap up with is, we have an anniversary coming up. it's an aversive hearing the declaration of independence. the decoration of independence as a nation. how do you want james forten to be or member across the nation? this is an audience question and a good one for whoever asked it. next i went james forten, i went elizabeth, i want all of these really stories not shared nationally to be on the same echelon. they are the founders. so many different ways we think
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of work as a sail maker, as a privateer there's declaration someme bit like elizabeth freemh and how she worked with the early founding documents to get to her story. but wait talk about the inception of this country. >> absolutely. they got right to the point. yes and really just understanding the different perspectives that were there. and who was affected by it and in what ways. in such an important part to learn. didn't really know there's a sort of understanding not really
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equal. it's for everyone but not really for everyone. so here are people of african heard these words and was charged just remarkable. >> thank you so much that is what is really special about this museum. for me it's a way i can see myself back during the revolution. the revolution belongs to all of us. i think that it's really, really special pretty want to to thank everyone for tuning in. it was -- i thank you so much michael idriss, thank you so much to read eight. thank you for tuning and please catch us up the next program. also come to the museum, come visit. >> come visit us for sure.
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>> cspan2 an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's story. on sunday @booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. fighting for cspan2 comes in these television and more. including medco. oco ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ along with these television companies support cspan2 as a public service. >> on our weekly series the presidency author gary ginsburg talked about his new book first friends. which examines the people closest to american presidents. >> i don't think madison had on jefferson are also great
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friendship. just expand on your question but it wasn't just during his presidency you see it played out. it played out the first many 1776. that encompasses 1250 letters were exchanged between the two men. it was so different both in body and impersonality. six-foot two -- 6-foot three. madison was 5-foot four. jefferson was larger-than-life personality. madison was very shy and timid. they work together beautifully. i think madison needed jefferson's large personality and idealism. i jefferson needed madison's exacting mind and practical nature. thank you played out it pegs as small as how they approach the act. or how they approached how he was going to deal with john
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adams when jefferson comes in as the vice president 1797. and jefferson wants to just become friends with adams. medicine is so exacting it says don't commit yourself to it yet. we do not know where this is going to go. but also there such great personal friends. i'm played pivotal rolls in keeping each on the trajectory to their greatness. for example when jefferson is basically run out of the governorship in 1781 and then undergoes a friendly trial of sorts to see if he advocated his responsibilities openly vindicated paired but he is demoralized and his first wife died. he just wants to get out of politics. he is done. he just wants to stay and live in agrarian life. but madison says no part you cannot give up your public life.
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you are too important to this new nation. he is the one who goes to the confederate congress and says you've got to get back in the game. he really gets him to paris by 1783. and that kind of a dynamic place throughout. when they lived together in philadelphia's in the confederate congress and jefferson is over too paris. jefferson notice madison his phone for a 15-year-old priest 32 years old he was unmarried. in phone and love to know how to delta rejection. place throughout their life and as i said in many ways it's responsible indirectly or directly things like our constitution, for our bill of rights. for our two party system. for the geographic obstruction of our country through the
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louisiana purchase. at bob's to the whole state university system. jefferson, with madison's help was a very big part. i certainly don't want to talk. people here are far more knowledgeable about the development of this university system. you for from uva. it was, for me a lot of fun to discover the depth of this friendship are. >> the presidency airs saturday and available to watch any time at my name : :


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