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tv   Hearing on the Climate and Methane Pollution  CSPAN  July 15, 2022 11:21pm-1:03am EDT

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[inaudible conversations]
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and members only to avoid in different background noise statements and documents and motions must be committed to the electronic repository and finally members experiencing any technical problem should inform staffll immediately today we will review community perspectives on climate and job and economic benefits of a cutting methane pollution from
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oil and gas and now i will recognize myself for five minutes welcome to part two of our series on methane the second largest source of heat traffic pollution and a major contributor to the climate crisis last week we discussed state perspectives cutting from the oil and gas sector in this week we will discuss how methane helps us take health for sustaining jobs and improve lives across the nation it is clear we need federal action which remains the largest industrial source of the united states according to the majority house staff report they are routinely failing to address weeks deployment of technology is defined and inconsistent and
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in order to fix this it's crucial the federal government holds producers accountable as well as harmful practices less we step up the work american families will continue to face the harm posed by the super pollutant americans living near oil and gas suffer more asthma attacks as well as other lung and heart problems it can be dangerous to pregnant women causing lower birth weight and preterm birth t and into many cases they fall in those communities of color and of neighborhoods but theseer outcomes are entirely avoidable there are ample technologies available to help them cut methane in a cost-effective way in handheld optical imaging sensors using infrared light and satellite
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and technologies to combust methane on-site deploying these allow the oil and gas sector twosi / emissions inhofe and no net cost this is low hanging fruit and can reduce waste to help save producers and customers many but we need more companies to take advantage of those regulations from the epa to address the industry to help drive innovation and enhance appointment and create jobs the good news we get help from the biden administration last week along with european union to help launch the energy pathway t to drive down methane pollution and eliminate routine flaring as soon as possible the president is also committing to slashing methane emissions inhofe by 2030 and
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the proposed epa rule would 41 million times and house democrats have taken action we included improvements to natural gas pipeline safety as well as minimum performance standardss and advanced technologies to repair methane leaks we passed a bipartisan resolution passing the attempt to weaken those safeguards bipartisan infrastructure law four.$7 billion of states and tribes mediate abandoned oil and gas wells. funding for reclaiming abandoned mines monitoring the pipelines house past reconciliation bill also included wasteful pollution in the house past the innovation
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act to help states prepare and replaceng leaking distribution pipelines those harmful pollutions will protect public health with growth of new small businesses and create tens of thousands of new jobs i look forward to hearing from our witnesses as we bring these cost-saving benefits to the community i yield back and i recognize the ranking member from louisiana. >> thank you madame chair and take it to the witnesses. and what i should argue is that more at risk from the storms and anywhere else in the country.
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and i think a lot about the country and the planet that we leave them. you read the news and you get ther perspective one side is here and then another site is over here. but then you look at the data you get a different picture. you get a very different picture. i remind you the united states has led the world and ask it is 41 percent higher lives cycle emissions as compared to
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the united states for the biden administration has said very clearly that there will be a significant increase of natural gas dependency of the next 30 years in a 50 percent increase of global energy demand but yet s what is happening in the united states? our administration to carry out d policies that shut down oil and gas production so that will reduce emissions but the facts show that results in higher global admissions. .shake your head. that is the fact if you want to debate that i cannot wait. because that has some of the lowest intensity of admissions than any other country in the world don't take my word for it it is crystal clear 2019 we
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would love to have that discussion. what do we do? the president lifts the remaining sanctions blocking it from being built facilitating more russian gas going into germany . . . .
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this administration shuts down the keystone pipeline whenever you have his own press secretary standing up there and saying, oh, no, it didn't stop the production of the areas where the keystone was going to transport from, they're just are sending it through different means. you know what that means? higher emissions and a greater chance of spill class environment?u what's: this administration's policies they say we're going to ban russian oil . we're going to stop. we said this was going to happen and the senate february 22. if you don't do this right is going to cost greater emissions and greater problems and look what's happening in russia is making more money off of their oil today and they were before
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they invaded ukraine look at their economy. and you know what we've done? we're selling cheaper energy right now to india and to china which has higher greenhouse gas emissions so always done is incentivize the purchase of russian oil that has greater greenhouse gas emissions and on top of it we incentivize the source and on top of it we undermined the us economyand lost competitiveness . you know, i've been extremely when we have energy production and some of the lowest intensity energy commission in the world aand i've been accused of being a shill of the oil andgas industry . i want you to think about something. the policies this administration. also resulted in 100 percent increase of gas prices, tripling of natural gas and there's price gouging and all these massive profits. whose cost? ththey have read the policies
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whereadvocating, lower emissions .the environmentalist? >> now i want to welcome our witnesses, patrice tomcik advocates for equitable solutions to protect children's healthfrom air pollution and climate change . a resident mcof pennsylvania bmiss tomcik became involved as a volunteer joining other local parents to push for clean air safeguards after fracking was permitted at a gas well near her children's school. robert kleinberg is a senior research scholar at columbia university research center on global policy focusing on dr energy technology and economics as well as environmental and regulatory issues associated with the oil and gas industry. doctor kleinberg earned a doctorate in physics from the university of california san diego and is a fellow of the
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boston university institute for sustainable energy d. doctor caroline alden is the cofounder and vice president of products and markets at long past technologies which is greenhouse gas emissions monitoring service based in boulder. doctor alden earned her doctorate and at in geology from the university of colorado boulder and she previously worked with the national oceanic and atmospheric administration carbon bible group on greenhouse gasalgorithms . sarah and smith is the chief of programs with the clean air task force. a member of clean air task force senior leadership team mrs. smith led the growth of the organizations methane emissions reduction program building a small team into a substantial global operation on four continents without objection the witnesses written statements will be made part of the record. with that you are now recognized for five minutes . >> welcome. >> thank you and hello to
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your counselor, ranking member graves and members of the select committee. thank you for inviting mehere to speak about protecting our health , climate, by cutting methane pollution. i'm patrice tomcik field manager from mom's clean air task force community of 1 million moms and caregivers united to protect our children's health from air pollution and climate change. we envision a safe fuand equitable future for all where all children believe brief clean air and live in stable climate. a mother of two boys living in southwest pennsylvania on top of the marsalis shall wear many oil and gas operations are located. in the us oil and gas sector is the largest industrial source of methanepollution intruding to climate change . methane is a potent greenhouse gas and a main component of natural gas . children who live, learn and play near oil and gas operations face higher risk
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of exposure to oil and gas industries air pollution. across our nation more than 3.9 million children go to school within a half-mile oil and gas operation. my children attended the mars area school district where there are gas wells and network of gathering pipelines. the closest wells that have been tracked are approximately half a mile away from my children's school campus where 3200 students help us risk. well and gas operations in a climate warming methane and also harmful volatile organic compounds otherwise known as bacs. those can contributeto ground-level ozone or small . smog is among that triggers asthma attacksand increases lung infection . children have a higher respiratory rate than adults thus can be exposed to higher rates of air pollution than adults my boys play outdoor sports and i'm very concerned about what they are breathing into their still developing lungs.
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in addition the ocs such as benzene committed by oil and gas operations. benzene can affect lung development and increase the risk of immune system damage, neurological problems and eu cancers such as childhood leukemia. as a parent of a child who had leukemia, i know firsthand how critical clean air is to good health. in fact it was my youngest son's cancer journey that motivated me to speak out about protecting children's long before the first gaswell was cracked near my school . every day i sent my children to school i feared for their health . this is especially true for carson was higher risk of having cancer again. i'm constantly reminded about how important my work is to protect children's health from pollution and climate change. the families i work with would tell you ourclimate crisis is a health crisis .
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these families are experiencing climate change impacts smoke from record-breaking wildfires who moisten the air across the midwest. when severe waste regularly health s, preying on older adults when and low income communities the list goes on. this is happening right now and we're all impacted and especially our red black indigenous and latino communities who are disproportionately exposed to the effects fromclimate change harmful pollution . we need environmental justice now we need climate justice now. quickly and significantly reducing methane pollutions is one of the best levers we have to slow the rate of climate change now and clean up the air to protect children's health. our families need strong federal standards to create baseline methane protections especially for states that have failed to enact oil and methane protections. this is why it's important the epa finalized comprehensive methane to
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eliminate routine clearing and include frequent inspections or small wells with leaked equipment. as parents we can't control the air our children breathe. it's why we depend on you our elected leaders to do your jobs and protect ourchildren . what we want is for our congress members to urgently pass legislation and invest in a clean out the energy future. thank you. >> thank you very much. next, doctor kleinberg your recognized for five minutes. >> day chair caster, ranking member graves and members of the select committee in order to address you as a final at today's hearing is safeguarding health creating jobs and in our climate. methane emission mitigation is essential to reducing the rate of global warming between now and 2050 l. this is technically and feasibly on economically
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feasible and has already generated a constellation of innovative us mall business so exploiting american designs on technologies. we know we must reduce our use of fossil fuels and we know the transition from fossil fuels 20 carbon sources will take time. one of our key challenges would be to minimize damage associated with fossil fuel use during this transition. according to the international energy agency the world consumes or trillion cubic meters of natural gas in 2020. assuming nations adhere to their announced harris agreement nationally determined contributions to world will consume almost exactly the same amount of gas in 2050 . assuming the world and do much better than this satisfy the sustainable development scenario consumption would still be 2.5 millimeters. no matter how optimistic you are that nations will respect their paris agreement commitments you must take methane emission reduction
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seriously. moreover even after the transition from fossil fuels is complete a methane problem will not go yaway by itself. biogas and methane production and transport have been found to be sources of this climate pollutant as well. it is a time-honored truth you cannot manage what you don't measure. eva relies on emission factor methodology which is now sadly outdated m. remarkably, over the last seven years american industry academia and nongovernmental organizations have worked together to find out how much methane the oil and gas industries are actually in the. the results showed thatepa dramatically underestimates methane emissions . two examples of new su measurement methods are aerial surveillance and continuous monitoring. the practicality of large-scale quantitative airborne remote-sensing is well-established. large number of large-scale
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campaigns have been performed in major oilsand gas producing regions . costs are surprisingly modest . doctor caroline alden who personifies the transformation of world-class research and a successful business will tell us about continuousmonitoring in a few minutes .you have probably heard methane reduction can be implemented at no cost or implemented at a profit and i'm sure this is true in some cases but if it were generally true industry would not be embedding as much methane as it does. i can tell you from personal experience the petroleum industry does not leave money on the table. as it is oil and gas sourced methane emissions are declining at the meager rate of 0.3 percent per year.the truth is industry needs to be notched to do the right thing . this means smart regulation. oil and gas methane emissions can be remediated by known engineering solutions. in my written testimony i
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reviewed simple measures that can reduce ucemissions by millions of tons per year. i compare these to the health and safety improvements i saw over the course of my career in the oil field. our highly skilled anworkforce has made our workplaces safer while keeping american industry the most efficient and productivein the world . given smart regulations and incentives they will do the same withmethane . finally, to address ranking member graves! i would like to point out russia is taking advantage of interior methane reporting methods to improve its environmental image. like the united states russia uses the emission factor method when reporting is methane emissions to the un fcc but unlike the united un states russia is self reported methane emissions of its oil and gas sector declined by a remarkable factor of eight since 2015. as a result russia's self
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reported methane intensity is now less than that of the united states. if left unchallenged the russian reports weaken the case for reduction of european dependence onrussian natural gas . only measurements will reveal the truth . please see my written submission for specific recommendations and thank you for giving me the opportunity to share these observations . >> thank you very fnext, doctor alden, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. chairwoman caster ranking member graves and members of the committee you for inviting us to testify. my name is caroline alden and i spent the last 15 years using greenhouse gas measurements to understand the sources measured here. after decades msof research i hope about long path technologies and in my role i develop algorithms to convert our leisure measurements to emission volume and work with
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stakeholders across industry academia environmental organization and governance on how best to reduce emissions . this morning i look forward to discussing the technology and benefits of measuring and mitigating vemethane emissions which i believe is a win-win for the climate for industry and for neighboring communities. methane leaks from oil and gas operations are unpredictable. they can happen anywhere at anytime leading to intermittent these make methane leaks difficult to catch. there are three pillars of advanced methane detection. total emissions are governed by how long the league goeson meeting the faster you catch it the better . number two site coverage. it's important to see all emission points. the epa method of handheld cameras often misses unmet players simply because their high off the ground. number three, sensitivity to different leaksizes . as industry keeps reducing emissions technologies must
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ultimately be able to help operators to zero emissions. so there are a range of new methane technologies. airplanes and satellites llgenerally perform periodic surveys. aerial surveys only catch larger leaks but did you see all the thought aside and cover large areas. this informs what emissions look like as a whole including whether policy targets are being met. fix continuous monitors provide high-frequency allowing for rapid fixing of leaks. continuous technology variance on the coverage but most have the ability to catch small leaks and many have the ntability to buy the volume. the us doesn't currently have a regulatory system established to leverage quantification data but quantitative dataprovides many benefits . quantification lets operators prioritize leaks or faster repairs, prioritize what's replaced, and ultimately assess how well compliance measures work.
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long past technologies using uses nobel prize-winning frequency coleaders that in the hundreds of thousands of colors of infrared light to measure methane and other greenhousegases . each laser is power mounted and covers 20 square miles smeasuring emissions on a site by site basis for customers. long path networks style rk coverage lowers the barrier to entry riby monitoring all types of leaks and importantly including marginal sites. so going back to those pillars of advanced monitoring long path provides continuous emissions data to customers in real time. reading covering all the equipment and we quantify all sides of the leaks. importantly the tech has proven to extensive third-party line testing and we have made all that data publicly available. in closing i'd like to offer dfor scenes for methane detection and emerging policy differing day is market and with respect to industries option. number one, methane monitoring reduce his emissions.
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saves costs for operators, drives energy efficiencies for the market and creates jobs. long path tripled in size with new jobs ranging from field technician in west texas the software engineers working remotely across the us number two the us is the world leader in methane monitoring technology. we recognize the aligned incentives of policymakers, climate advocates and us gas can also become the cleanest in the world. to accomplish this, regulations need to encourage operators to use new technologies and plan for quantification based metrics. epa rules should include a ll matrix that allows for technology neutral choices. fcc rules should require measurements not outdated inventories and responsibly sourced gas standards should preclude greenwashing by de transparency and quality monitoring. relatedly number three the
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federal government could invest in the creation of independent third-party fy bodies to certify and create standards for new technologies . lastly number four, continuous monitoring is inexpensive and it more than pays for itself to reduce costs and revenue retention. we can now sit the largest for continuous methane monitoring for less than the cost of 20 to 30 miles of interstate highway for as my colleague says less than the cost of the last james bond movie so thank you for the opportunityto contribute . >> thank you doctor alden. next mrs. smith your recognized for five minutes . >> chair caster, ranking member graves, members of the select committee thank you for inviting me to testify . i am the chief of programs at clean air passport a global nonprofit organization working to safeguard against the worst impacts of climate change like catalyzing the rapid development and deployment of low carbon energy and other climate
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protecting technologies. i'd like to emphasize three points. the world is warming rapidly serious impacts are here today. simple solutions like finding and fixing plumes of methane oil and gas sites can dramatically cut us emissions and represents the fastest way to slow warming while also limiting unhealthy air pollution and creating jobs. strong epa standards represent a key opportunity to accomplish this and should be finalized this year. whether it's severe storms, rising seas, deadly heat wave sort plan rampaging wildfires the impacts of our warming climate are being felt today. and reports on the intergovernmental panel on climate change made it very clear that if emissions continue the impacts will get much worse in the coming years. methane is a key culprit responsible for about half a degree of the one degrees
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celsius of warming we already in experience. but methane is also a key opportunity. it's high warming potential during its relatively short lifetime in our atmosphere provides us with our biggest chance to slow warming over the next few decades. reducing methane is like a handbrake for our warming planet which is currently hurling towards a much hotter period to which humans may not be able to quickly adapt. pulling the handbrake while we have carbon dioxide to is essential to limit direct impacts on people and importantly to limit the acceleration of harmful feedback loops where warming causes more warming. such as the rapidly disappearing arctic sea life. the darker circus is left behind after they absorb more sunlight just like we're moving a natural canopy exposes the dark parking lot creating more warming, a feedback loop. the good news is we can
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methane emissions rapidly from oil and gas today despite using technologies and practices that are already included in standards on the books and we can states new mexico and colorado. epa can cut oil and gas methane emissions by 65 percent in just three years. these solutions do not require rocket science just simple sound plumbing. the standard deviation put in place would require the oil and gas industry to regularly check k their equipment for leaks using modern instruments and replace equipment that is designed to dump methane gas into the air with modern cleaning equipmentthat doesn't . it's that simple. epa's proposal last fall would go a long way to accomplish these productions it needs to be structured. the methane emissions reduction program the house passed in the billback better act would serve as an effective and efficient compliment to epa regulations because it would go into effect more quickly for
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existing sources incentivizing the highest operators to rapidly investin cleaner equipment . these policies would lead to dramatic cuts in methane from oil and gas, 8 million tons per year of methane and as miss tomcik underscored these policies would cut emissions beyond methane as well . other precursors at 100,000 tons of air toxics like carcinogenic benzene every year. finally strong case standards would create 60,000 high-paying jobs according to atf estimates. a new oil and gas industry manufacturing and other factors. these policies can dramatically cut methane emissions by 2030 and bill on global momentum as seen in this global methane pledge led by the united states and european union. the us has shown great leadership on methane around
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the world and can back that up with strong action to cut methane at home. methane emissions are wreaking havoc on our planet and we have the solution in hand to rain them in c. we must use them now thank you . >> thank you and thanks to all of our witnesses for your insightful testimony . i like the american can-do spirit you all have. now we will go to member questions. first off miss brownlee's i feel like this is the first time i've ever been first in the committee to ask questions so thank you for that. according to the international energy agency, natural gas markets could have sold an additional hundred 80 billion cubic meters of natural gas if all
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the leaks from fossil fuel operations had been captured, a volume equal to the entire gas market of europe. mrs. smith, you noted in your testimony routine flaring wasted enough gas in 2019 to heat over 3.5 million homes. this seems like it should be a powerful economic incentive for industry to stop leaks and flares from drilling so what do you think a counter industries your to do more on their own address the problem. you think industry's failure to fix the problem is another argument for tostrong epa standards? >> thank you for the question representative brownlee and you're right. the amount of waste is staggering. billions of dollars of mi natural gas is flowing out of ha leaks every year. why hasn't the industry acted ? we haven't had informed
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standards and that's the role epa can play by assuring strong safeguards. >> do you see a industry getting to regulate this on their own just to protect their bottom line? >> some companies have been more forward thinking in this area. there was a benchmarking report recently that looked at the top 100 operators. there's a big range when it comes to emissions so again óthe solutions do exist are not being used uniformly. >> thank you for that. miss kleinberg, thank you for your testimony and being here . you mentioned and talk about your children's school being half a mile or so from tracking wells. with all of the new technology and satellite data
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that's really available now to track methane flares and emissions, has this data helps you in any way to raise awareness at the local level about these problems? >> i'm sorry, could you repeatthe last four that question ?>> i'm asking if with all of the tools and data that we have available now to track methane flares and emissions, has any of this, these tools, this data. at that but to help you in terms of raising awareness in your own community to improve upon those leaks etc. that are happening? >> what we do know is that there's a lot of oil and gas air pollution that is impacting communities where
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they live. and so the information and technologies are making it clear that we will methane rules and regulations to protect those communities are being impacted by flaring and also the pollution that is created from the leak. from a small leak thrown wells. so it's very important that these methane rules are enacted as quickly as possible to protect the health and protect people fromclimate change to . >> thank you and again thanks for being here. mrs. smith, you noted in your testimony there are a variety of different kinds of leak detectors including close range technologies and screening technologies. do you have an estimate of how much these various technologies would cost? for instance the handheld device that you spoke of. >> i'm sorry, was that for me
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or doctor alden? >> for mrs. smith. >> 94 that question representative. fortunately over all the costs are very very low. we look at weeding states like colorado which has had a long repair standards on the book and it hasn't had an impact on the productivity compared to other states that do not have standards. >> missed:, can you add anything to that? >> sure. i completely agree with mister smith and it's pretty amazing how the implementing this kind of monitoring drives amazing efficiencies for operators so it keeps objects in the pipeline, identifies functions which where it's illegal or not that saves money and provides an instant feedback on operations, helps folks dial
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in their system. the technology gaitself is very affordable. >> thank you, i yelled back chair. >> next representative gonzalez, you are recognized. >> iq chairwoman and ranking member grace. thank you for our witnesses for all your work in your testimony. doctor alden i'm going to start with y you. as you know epa plays an invaluable role in us energy innovation for a moment and transformative technologies and in some cases that are too risky for the private sector to invest in. it's great to see however that long path to the two-time rv recipient particularly a selection of the scale up program. despite the successes of our pe my colleagues and i remain concerned some companies may face your credit barriers from agencies outside the doe in the rpe process that she'll agfuture private investment slow down the path
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of commercialization so with that backdrop can you provide insight into long past experience with regulatory agencies such as epa during the rpe process? >> where a huge fan of ability for the federal government to invest in high-risk high reward ideas some of", some of those do that's great for the economy when they do. working with other agencies, its top for federal regulations to keep pace with the technological innovation that's happening right now. epa is taking great steps in their draft rule. they opened the door to new technology which is used and we've been working with them and all other stakeholders including doctor kleinberg as well to help them get those rules across the finish line. planning for the future of better technologies taking
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hold. so yes, agencies can look at regulations that are potentially adaptable in the future also setting metrics that we think we can achieve in the future. i think that's a positive step. >> outside of the rulemaking process are there any specific recommendations you would make to improve the process on your side? to make sure that we a bunch of great technology companies stuck in this bureaucratic mess which i know happens sometimes . >> yeah, i think the ability to have agencies create rules that are very much inviting of stakeholder feedback is positive and certainly a great step right down in terms of looking at agencies like rpe or dop or some of those groups would be to now what we really need to enable these technologies to take hold and get out there is going to be a governing body
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or independent group esand i think that rpe, doe, some of those agencies could fund an independent group to create standards to make sure that technologies going out in the field are of that most highest-quality. >> thank you. shifting gears of it i want to focus on how the various methane monitoring technologies can work together to improve our detection systems . in recent years one of the more popular missions control devices have been satellite but while they carry benefits they also feature drawbacks such as their considerable range of uncertainty and inability to apply to smaller emitting sources. can you explain how monitoring system lifelong paths and work in io collaboration with today's drones to identify leaks? >> as i mentioned there's been value in both those kind
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of large-scale survey technologies and in having fixed monitors to provide that mitigation piece. satellites are extremely powerful on the world stage p so there are a lot of centers where it's to our. you're not going to be able to get ground-based monitors or even aerial surveys in place so on the global stage satellites are a huge key piece of the puzzle. in the us where we have the ability to deploy this date i see some value in tax solutions in terms of you get your continuous iexcuse monitors and well pads, tank batteries, ercompressor stations and then there's a lot of other infrastructure at a little more diffuse. gathering pipelines guidelines for example the a nice place to fill in that gap with the aerial technologies but there's a lot of ways to back these technologies and certainly redundancy can't hurt in this realm.
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>> thank you for all the work you're doing and that high-yield back. >> representative letter. >> thank you for holding today's chair castro. i'm glad we're having a i'hearing on methane pollution and i think about these issues as a parent with two young kids at home nine and eight years old and my wife and i encourage them to learn basic science e and i thought i would start with temple facts . as weaver methane is a key greenhouse gas driving global mean temperature rise while addressing carbon gets in many conversations a study with e scientists at scripps university confirmed what we already know. reducing carbon dioxide alone is not to me are 20 climate targets. in order to stay below the targets we must focus on addressing methane emissions and other non-carbon dioxide pollutants tool for triggering your personal climate change.
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methane is particularly important because it has a warming potential eight times greater than carbon dioxide over 20 years and human populations represent one third of all warming from greenhouse gases. given methane intense warming potential stopping methane pollution is one of the most impactful preventions we can take to avoid warming in the coming years as we continue working to decolonize all facets of our society but methane leaks doesn't just outline the benefits but we know reducing methane emissions as key a health and benefits and as part of the united states efforts to help reduce europe's dependence on russian fossil fuels president by committed to provide additional 50 billion meters per year us liquefied national natural gas analysis found reasonable reductions in methane waste from the flaring could meet 50 percent of by.
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seems to me that the oil and gas industry should focus on reducing waste of our natural resources at the most tangible short-term solution to increase the domestic supply of natural gas. ms. smith do you agree that reducing methane pollution by the play leak detection and repair represents a key opportunity to increase our overall ppsupply of natural gas and help address high energy crisis both domestically and for european allies? >> thank you for this question, yes. it would indeed free up additional gas.wo it should absolutely be a priority. we're talking about millions of dollars worth of gas going up in flames or going into the air in the us every single day. >> is that if we are serious about maximizing the potential of our current gas that we should be doing all we can to mitigate leaks and we should be preventing
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flaring. with my time running i like to ship it to discuss efforts going on in my home state of california and using aerial surveys to improve the detection of methane leaks doctor kleinberg, as you know between 2017 and 2021, our lead pilot program california resources for lead program to use airplanes to detect methane leaks and sources including will field as part of this initiative 44 california facilities voluntarily repaired weeks after they were notified as part of a pilot program . the fix is prevented the equivalent of 1.2 million metric tons of carbon dioxide from escaping which is equal to taking about a quarter of 1 million cars off the road for a year. as a result of the success carbon carbon are planning on wanting to satellites in 2023 provide regular complete precise measurements not just
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of methane by carbon dioxide emissions as well as 25 other environmental indicators doctor kleinberg given the success of california's pilot program what lessons should the government take from these efforts to improve standards format detecting methane leaksthrough aerial surveys on the national level ? >> the california survey was a model for the way i think we should be moving in terms of regulation. it was extremely comprehensive, 272,000 sites just last week at the house science committee on this. this is exactly what we need to be doing. it is remarkablyinexpensive to do it and as caroline alden pointed out comprehensive. this is the way to go. >> i'm grateful to have had the opportunity to have pilot in california and i hope the rest of the country will take notice and it's good to hear
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from a usb drive with on uaour panel today this is i'll yield back the chair. >> next up representative carter. >> command chair and all of you for being here. look, as much as my colleagues on the other side of the aisle don't want to admit it or don't like it, we have to admit adthat fossil fuels, natural gas and will are going to be part of our portfolio for a long time . let's face it. we'll great percentage of our energy portfolio today is fossil fuels and that didn't happen overnight and it's not going to change overnight no matter how hard we want it to do that or how badly you want it to do that but i have to tell you i encourage by the progress that the oil and gas industry, the fossil fuel industry has made in decreasing emissions. i had a group in my office earlier this week, a group of six oil companies are doing this business in canada and
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they have a desire, they have a goal of being carbon neutral by 2050. even with the fossil fuels and i want them for that. i think that's great we don't get enough credit to the fossil fuel and oil and gas industry for the progress they've made in decreasing emissions. and a lot of that has to do with the policies. just last week we had the governor of wyoming before this committee and he was telling us how he has directed the state to pursue a goal of negative carbon dioxide emissions continue to use fossil fuels. so you know, it's going to be part of our future, i understand thattechnology is going to play a big part of that as well . i wanted to just a little bit
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because we all know that climate change e, this is a global problem. we would be this we are being remiss by not thinking about third world countries developing countries because they are using fossil fuels re they're going to. they do their best to use renewable energy and clean energy they are going to use whatever they have to in order to get their economies going and to have electricity . these developing and growing nations. this is an example. indian governments fuel mix shows they will overlook overwhelmingly on fossil fuels even though the have a rapidrise in renewable energy as well. nigeria's vice anpresident put it this way . no country in the world has been able to industrialize using renewable energy yet developing countries artie
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expected to do so with everybody else in the world knows that we need gas powered industries for business . it's just part ofit . doctor alden, i want to ask you, my question for you is this. doesn't that the is important to test and explore the new technologies like loans have so that we can reduce these emissions while providing reliable energy w? >> absolutely. i think looking at the global stage as i mentioned there are satellites can go everywhere all the time for a lot of the time and at least see the very large emissions that might be happening in other countries but i think there's a lot of potential for exporting the technologies that have been developed in the us like longpath the various surveys, the whole host of new tech is ready to go over on as well.
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i think there's great opportunity for the investments that have been the to the exported overseas and try to solve that problem . also i think that yes, the other pathway is just we got the technology here. let's implement it through via measurement at us gas is clean and we can export that gas. >> let me ask you this quick, i'm running out oftime . what aboutregulations ? wouldn't improving regulations to encourage adoption of allergies like we see longpath, would that contribute to the potential for job creation inthese areas ? >> absolutely. it makes rules that come online are recognizing the technologies and creating a direct on-ramp is going to be usually important to stimulate activation in the technology sector and get on
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the ground to want to use it. >> let me say that i've always said in order to address the situation going to have to adaptation, innovation. i believe the greatest scientists are right here in the united states. we should be encouraging back . thank you chair i'll yield back. >> next, representative bonnie nietzsche. >> thank you to the witnesses. ice sit on the technology committee as well as the poorest committee earlier this month we released a majority staff report finding well and gas companies are failing to address super imaging weeks and not consistently deploying the repair technologies that exist doctor alden your colleague was there at the hearing where we spoke about this i wanted to follow up on some of the questioning that you've been responding to. we know you established it,
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others have established that technology now insists that there are financial incentives but the industry is not adapting to this technology so how can congress motivate industry to adapt this continuous monitoring technology want to point out as well i appreciate your comments. it's something i've run across in a half decade on the science committee that regulating technology is balancing because the technology changes much more rapidly and regulations so can you talk about the best thing congress can do to motivate industry that the monitoring also if you could mention as well there's been a lot of talk about the oil and gas industry but that's not the only source ofmethane . did you talk about how technology works with other alienating sources? >> thank you congresswoman
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bonamicci. with the rules coming down the pipeline i think just being ready, the technologies are here and knowing that we can achieve the metrics we want. if we want to metrics like methane intensity that scales across different production zones in a meaningful way we can get there now with the technologies we have . i think in the more immediate turbo epa rules, we've worked with a lot of stakeholders. doctor kleinberg has been a great leader in this process creating technology neutral matrix so that we can have those technologies ready to go and the reason it's important for industry is the epa rules for example the fcc rules don't allow direct on-ramp for these new technologies industry is going to be stuck doing the old method. there's doing these all ogi surveys and are not going to
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spend extra money to do the monitoring is going to be effective. we need to make sure we're encouraging at least not this incentivizing operators to use these technologies. i think those will be important just to build ranks to meet. and to your second point that is absolutely an issue is the biogas and other incredible, incredible patience online. they're going to need monitoring to. if you're effectively capturing various sources, the same type of leaks as oil and gasinfrastructure, it's equally difficult to find it not harder to find . similarly inventory numbers indon't cut it and you can't predict where these leaks are going to happen . e >> doctor kleinberg in your
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written testimony you address mediation process so you can you explain a little bit about that process and how addressing it would contain methane reduction technologies. >> i'll be happy to. one thing that's important and regulations is having them adaptive. this feels in particular where so much technology is being developed so fast, this begs for a regulatory scheme that takes into account new technology which has been blossoming in the last seven years. the alternative means emission limitation is a provision of the clean air act that basically anticipates that but the way it's been implemented so far by the environmental protection agency it turned out to be more of a barrier than an enabler. in fact is 2012 when it was first implemented for methane there was no applications between 2012 and 2020 while
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people like caroline alden and others were developing this phenomenal technology because the process was so it improved a bit in 2020 still, one application which is still floating around in the epa, we need to do better than that. we need to give epa the resources to handle these applications and regulations that encourage innovation, not discourage it. >> i appreciate that and i have another question for mrs. smith but i'm going to be submitting that for the record as well as the follow-up for doctor kleinberg so i yelled back. >> mister armstrong you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair. if we think capturing 100 percent of natural gas would lower our energy prices in
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the long term i don't think we're being honest about how products get to market. in fact one of the two biggest drivers for north dakota not producing oil and gas right now is in capital. we have a workforce shortage and gas capture. if we would capture under present at the gas in north dakota we would drop 250 to 300,000 barrels of oil a day and that would happen overnight. you wouldn't produce more gas , you produce less oil and the reason for that is the geographic center of north america and we don't have the capacity to get back to market v. when we're considering methane emissions for oil and gas we were the majority the industry with a broad brush and when we talk about these producers are and where they do business, yes there are large multinational companies but the majority of the regulatory burden from broad federal onshore policy will fall on small and medium-size gas companies at these
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companies rightfully have concerns with these proposals . it's not because they aren't already being regulated, it's because they don't want to be subject to duplicative regulations and the real problem with actions by the epa and congress is a stifle innovation and even if their intended atnot to the nature of federal regulations are burdensome because the majority has noted states are already supporting innovative technology. we did this in north dakota when i served in the state legislature talking about rewriting our pipeline laws. we were really interested in how we were going to use that and it turns out they don't work when it's 25 below zero. they didn't work and we continue to move forward. north dakota does this through methane regulation that's already on the books. the problem is when you revert to obama era epa follow-up policies you cut out new technology by the nature of federal fregulation and its burdensome and it's unusable by producers.
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we need to stop duplicative regulations that slow down innovation. doctor alden in your presentation you want for the technology developed by longpath to support facilities that provide leak detection and quantifiable data. how do you accurately quantify commissions and help operators that use this technology work for effectively and how to benefit both the industry and also reduce emissions. >> your question is about how quantification helps? so quantification drives a lot of insights. we hear a lot of operators say you need to know if there's a leak or not but when folks do start on board like quantitative data is accurate and reliable we see this behind a lot of value. for example, you can can prioritize leak repairs to the end when they want to get alerts.
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what five leaks want to get alerts on. in order to really be efficient about attacking the worst needs first. the contract and compare equipment are performed. look at say hey, on a windy day this separator that doesn't have burner control unit. blows out and leaks gas but this other one over here with a more advanced burner control unit doesn't. we see a lot of value in being able to track those emissions over time. really look at their reductions and quantify their reductions over time and compare site tosite and equipment to equipment . >> alwaysinterested if it will work in ifebruary and north dakota . that's usually a concern. as you state technology neutral regulations that allow for adoption and deployment of new technologies. how could a neutral regulatory framework help deploy these technologies and how important is it regulatory agencies work with
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the different stakeholders to adopt framework . >> great question. as i mentioned there's a group of stakeholders and that's industry folks, ngos, technologists like myself, legal experts are together crafting what we call a matrix approach to the rules and we are very hopeful and i think expecting that the epa will adopt this new rule. what that will do is allow for certain technology neutral metrics to be put forth like how frequently does the technology look and what detection levels, what leaks does it need to be able to find reliably so that's a great first step in terms of, i think that will go into epa rule and i applaud the epa for opening the door to that kind of regulation . the second thing i want to emphasize what doctor kleinberg about adaptive ve regulation. it's a rule right now and it's going to be a struggle.
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this puts the rules further away from where they have been historically which is difficult but getting in place the ability to totake the the ics you want for long-term and build your rules around that and as the years go by in three years and five years return to the best science on what emissions are. >> i feel back. >> representative hoffman. >> thanks to the witnesses for their interesting testimony. doctor kleinberg i'd like to start with you. you gave us a lot to think about in terms of methane in from oil and gas sector but we also hear about methane in agriculture and other sources . could you just in terms of the scale of the problem we're trying to deal with and that the context of the conversation? >> i'll be happy to. people talk about oil and gas
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because people that run oil and gas industry are well-capitalized, high technology so that looks like a good sector to work on and indeed it is . nonetheless the agriculture sector is a bigger problem. and in fact in that survey of california that representative living mentioned, many of the largest sites turned out to be agricultural reforms, that sort of thing or waste management landfills. those are also big problems we should not ignore and in some ways they're easier to deal with because it's a less itinerant industry. there's always new wells here then and there. and wwith many possibilities for leaks and high pressure gasand so on . agriculture might be easier in a different way or different problems but things that we should be working on right now.
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>> different solutions, yes. >> appreciate that. if we achieved total methane control in the well and gas sector and just did a great job with all these technologies. both detecting the methane and eliminating the leaks, if we're meeting ever higher amounts of global energy demand with natural gas we're still increasing co2 in the atmosphere. >> yes i think it's important as we think about what do we do with thismethane issue . obviously we've got to apply i have that ms. smith and others have talked about because it's a super pollutant 80 times or potent than co2 and global eating is having fast. we desperately need to get methane under control. but if we are not simultaneously bringing co2 concentrations down. real trouble. >> definitely long-term. methane asked fast and sort of gives you instant gratification. in the long run we need to
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deal with co2 absolutely. >> i just wonder about the moral hazard policy hazard maybe i assuming sometimes i. suggested by colleagues across the that will tackle this methane problem. will do that and then we can go out with clean natural gas and everything will be just fine. that innovation will sort of figure out new ways to capture the co2 emissions. we will use offsets. any thoughts about the moral hazard of getting this clean bill of health the natural gas as westare down the climate crisis ? >> i think your concern is well-founded but i will say it's been brought up this morning as carbon capture and sequestration is another route to taking carbon dioxide outof the atmosphere . >> so is time travel but neitherof them are scale right now .i mean, do you disagree and mark. >> the technology exists to
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do it. the problem is that ccscost about $60 a ton. we need a price on carbon network because nobody takes away your garbage for free . >> you don't disagree that right now ccs is just hypothetical. all this additional natural gas were trying to sell, none of it is thehypothetical cause there's no price on carbon . >> thank you . the other point i think is that methane pollution has all of these other aleutian impacts. the environmental justice impacts that have been discussed . >> .. >> .mi
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>> again, that's why we need the well-established authority to reduce methane emission and in addition to establish that authority to reduce air pollution. >> i always appreciate and to speak about justice how people are impacted by my colleagues across the aisle talk about economic injustice and i
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brought this up in this committee and other committees multiple times about this town in illinois a town of 2200 people and with 90 percent african-american and these are people who don't have access to naturalth gas. with propane and wood-burning stove some are cooking and i justde wonder and then having access to a natural gas line. yes or no. it is not a speech. say yes or no. it is a yes or no. would you support a natural gas line for those who live in
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pembroke township illinois? yes or no. >> i would like to. >> i will take that as a no but jesse jackson disagrees and others in the civil rights disagree with you they have worked tirelessly to get a natural gas pipeline and the illinois legislature has finally approved it now they love cleanburning natural gas they can use to heat their homes and cook their food and warm the water and hopefully bring someto businesses into their city so they can have better jobs with environmental justice and economic justice and energy justice. i also want to point outin some things loving to talk about technology in this committee and other committees it's a
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problem that cannot be solved. but that's not the case. in that process to convert methane to ethanol and liquid fuel. was zero co2th emissions and converting methaneon to fuel or chemical field stock. that technology is not commercially available yet but i predict that it will be. and the research that shows a common claim product such as with the use in cat litter can be used for methane emissions.
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so you mentioned your f testimony to detect the leaks for reducing methane emissions. and those without the government mandate. and with these types of technologies. and those energy is entrusted. to see how emissions can be reduced and then to double up and what they need to do and we expect thatla to happen. >> talk about methane leaks
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and the oil and gas companies but the fact of the matter is it's just not true this is a win for industry. there is a financial benefit is that accurate quick. >> yes. it certainly is. is adding a powerful tool to the toolkit toin track what's going on in their operations. they are generally assigned as a malfunction. and that just drives efficiency and operation. >> i have yet to have the democrats say they don't support that. thank you. spent the reason we have devoted so much time is
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because it is a super pollutant driving higher cost and what caught my attention is venting methane into the atmosphere is like throwing garbage into the street outside your home. it is worse than that throwing good food that committees elsewhere into the street outside your home. at the last committee meeting we had. and the governor from new mexico has worked and developing a model so is that why it's important to have strong federal standards here on methane? what is your view quick. >> i'm a very big believer in
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federalism. and that as colorado comes to esmind canada has some strong restrictions but then to have a level playing field and then with respect to exports from the rest of the world. and then to see upstream greenhouse gas footprint. and that comes out of the basin. >> meant to have those solutions in hand to reduce methane and then say this is not rocket science it's like modern plumbing.
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what is the importance of federal standards? >> yes i agree with a patchwork of state rules so we need those federal safeguards that is responsible for 60 percent of the of the us. >> you spoke from the heart your perspective as a mom the impact of pollution on your children and really spoke on behalf of parents everywhere. this is a massive public health issue i know we get involved in the technical questions over time that air pollution is a killer and this is harmful and is there a way to reduce the health impact the harmful consequences to our kids quick.
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>> absolutely. the reality is oil and gas operations will be there for a long time. and the potential to pollute will be there for a long time. we need federal rules to protect the communities. so what we do know is states like pennsylvania, the second largest natural gas producer in the nation and the oil and gas industry in the state is responsible for emitting 1 million metric ton on —- and then to significantly lower those methane pollutants along with those impacting the community the reality is.
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we don't know exactly what is in the community because there's not widespread community monitoring. that something that reallyo needs to be addressed in order to protect communities and i'm hoping the epa come out with a solution to help communities living with oil and gas. >> my kids are worried about climate change and when we talk about it they are concerned about how it will be for their children when they are old enough to have children and they are teenagers right now imi just want to let you know i told my kids i was coming here. my son said let them know i'm the best lacrosse player in the country and i won the state championship. i tell you that because they want you to know we are
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people. we are real family we are individuals living here with oil and gaso and we need methane rules to protect your health from air pollution and climate change. >> thank you chair for being here today. in my home state of west virginia we are abundantly rich in natural resources to power our community and country and world. i am a member of this committee because our energy producing community deserves a voice in the debate on the future of energy and climate policy. i am deeply committed to finding the solutions toat combat emissions although the world climate has changed and will continue to change since
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god first created earth we have science like never before that we can depend upon to help us solve the problems to mitigate and reduce the emissions programst is concerned not with our ability to define the solution but the willingness to make sure we have the ability to do so. this administration and mysl colleagues across the aisle have tried to make it impossible to invest in the technologies to reduce emissions from reliable sources of energy without future investment these technologies won't exist and we cannot bring your energy producing community along into the next generation of prosperity. doctor, thank you for joining us today i was in she treat to track methane emissions. can you explain how methane monitoring makes oil and gas industry more viable for a
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less carbon intensive future? >> think you'll. so measuring methane emissions really does contribute to reduction across the supply chain for oil and gas. it's important for public and private sector to invest in technology to help us wherever possible and itng is a win-win for reducing emissions. >> can you talk about the importance of continued investment of more traditional forms of energy in thehe new technology to support those producers quick. >> yes. i cannot speak to the general investment that you helping that technologieso to evolve and be more responsive and
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responsive and quantitative to help everybody's. >> in the permian basin it is flat does technology work in more mountainous areas like west virginia with abundant natural gas and oil reserves quick. >> that's a great question. is a a very new technology. so right now we are out that maxci inefficiency where the system being able to cover many gas facilities it's ideal for us because we can spread that out and is a very low level certainly as technology continues to evolve to shrink down where you are thing
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keeping that technologies rollingg and pushing forward it will certainly help with the monitoring. >> that's why it's so important with innovation. >> thank you madame chair. i think we all agree that we should quantify on limit emissions and try to help and those that don't want harmful particulates in the air but i want to take a step back and notes on inescapable fact thatme component of natural gas. natural gas has been and will then be a key factor to reduce global emissions as it
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displaces higher a meeting coal and the demand for natural gas and energy demand in general increaseou drastically and us natural gas is far cleaner than the largest competitor, 41 percent cleaner and now we have a cost-benefit question citizens are facing higher energy crisis suffering from inflation and they cannot stop coming up with ways to discourage investment of domestic oil and gas industry to increase production which is her only hope of reducing prices anytime soon if we want to tell the american people today to accept even higher prices there better be an extraordinary benefit awaiting them. oil and gas methane emissions make up 20 percent of global methane were global emissions us makes up 7 percent and us
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oil and gas makes two.8 percent so then we talk about tackling two.8 percent so what will happen what will reducing a fraction or the fraction even accomplishments smith mentioned this was the fastest way toh reduce global emissions but if we want to be factual we recognize that 50 percent of the world emissions come from foreign coale that is most likely to be displaced by natural gas in the domestic gas producers tell me they can quadruple experts in the next ten years if our export policy was targeted at displacing form : have the equivalent to electrify 100 passenger cars powering every home in america with a battery pack and adding
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54000 windmills doubling the wind capacity. that would seemat like a better investment to me if reducing global emissions was her goal while maintaining price stability that we can have it all if we want. so talking about russian gas earlier and howow we can compete with that but frankly if a country is looking to purchase natural gas should they purchase from russia quick. >> to k be honest we don't know we studied the statistics very carefully they look fishy. i have not done in tracking down exactly how they manage to reduce reported emissions by a a factor of eight.
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it is suspicious. [laughter] and then we need to be measuring in both countries we talked about continuous monitoring and satellites and if the united states does the other countries will start to do it as well. >> that's what i want to get out. why does increasing our own regulations encourage the russians who clearly are not our friends and encourage them to care quick. >> russia is a tough case but in general. >> that they are the biggest one. >> that's right. we have to basically show that we areth doing it right in the european union and the other buyers have to determine who was more credible the united
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states or the spreadsheet exercise from russia? and then with the text sound gas company for that reason to make up things and then you can see the work is unbiased and thoughtfully done but with that ibl am out of time we got the point of order. >> i appreciate you being here and iei want to follow up on the questioning thing they were going into ukraine saying they were liberating ukrainians and denied any human rights violations when there is clear
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evidence that was not the case and i'm not sure that russia has much credibility. we can sit here all day long talk about putin or methane numbers but i do want to ask you that you noted in the testimony and told mr. crenshaw that the numbers are fishy but i want to ask so what do we do to put a better system in place to get a more accurate measurement? >> russia is using the same system first used in the united states pioneeredsy by epa which was the best method at the time which was the mission factor method which is a spreadsheet that involves the measurements and russia copy that most do copy what we do
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how they implemented is another question. but by the same token now that weme have these wonderful new instruments, we can do a lot better and other countries will copy yes. i just want to point out you are from louisiana when i have been around the world talking to petroleum that are trained in texas and oklahoma the american influence is very powerful in this industry and once we do it right other countries will and then the purchasing nations like koreans and japanese will say yes we want this it is verifiably cleaner. >> doctor when your colleague
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testified a few weeks ago with the importance of eta regulations. so talk about methane leaks so talk about the opportunities and what they deploy? >> a lot of companies are trying out the new technologies in their testing the waters. and then to encourage operators for technology. and then then they need to encourage and incentivize but
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do that with the carrot and not stick. people try stuff out. and then to encourage widespread adoption and those who do put the time in to integrate there will be gains with improvedem efficiencies. >> thank you for being here please know that my opening statement wasn't an effort to attack you but i care a lot about the environment and the planet we leave our kids but the plan it shows a different outcome then the folks believe the narrative to be. so i was curious in your testimony and they got this backwards but the oil and gas industry more than 16 million metric tons and only
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8 million tons did you understand the difference between your testimony? >> the 16 million metro times annually is environmental fund information and what they do is they like at the measurements that are taking directly from oil and gas and happy to provide thatd information to you and then you made that comment that minorities are more impacted in your testimony because last time somebody said it was the opposite and those two letters from june 23rd another one fromgo june 24th and to be
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included in the record. >> without objection so ordered i want to think the witnesses today for your testimony and also unanimous consent with the letter from the evangelical environmental network thinking that committee for our hearing and the environmental defense and for recent scientific papers and economic reports highlighting the need for strong federal rules in a letter from the company then encourages the committee toe urge the agency to lower methane emissions thank you again it is critical time for
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the type of testimony and the committee is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]
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>> it is our great pleasure today to be joined by a chris he doesn't need a whole lot of introduction as most people are familiar with his background so i will keep this brief he


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