lasting effects of the 20 year military engagement to cover the line council is a host of this event, and lastt about an hour. >> good afternoon everyone, i'm thinking president ceo theoo united council and am pleased to welcome you all to this event, hosted by the hellenic councils center for strategy and security reflecting on america's parts are from afghanistan i would also like to give a special welcome to our viewers on c-span. we are delighted to be joined by such an excellent panel whose to decade-long war in afghanistan touched in different ways we were going to be fortunate enough to hear the perspective and the personally experienced and broaderd expertise on national and global security issues, first elliott a decorated marine corps veteran, and the other the new book, the fifth act, and america's and and

afghanistan, a striking and eventually personalel history of the war in afghanistan and elliott, i am proud to have actually be a dance uncorrected proof which is where i met of this book and thank you for the love you and it is really a riveting read. elliott is a remarkable novelist as well and original thinker one of the few people that i know who can write both nonfiction and fiction equally. this is the first time that elliott has been back at the atlantic council since the passing of his remarkable father peter and your friend of mine and a member of our board executive committee. i know how much he would like to have been here and elliott and i also know how proud he was of you and of your mathematician wrestler brother nate and so please pastor hundred and hunt counterparts best wishes to him as well and member of the la council board of directors, and he had a distinguished career in

the naming i think that distinguishes an understatement, rising to the level of four-star admiral answering 16 supreme allied commander of nato where he oversaw operations in afghanistan libya syria, and counterpart it's off the coast of africa. any was the longest serving combatant commander in recent u.s. history writes regularly published 12 books and hundreds of articles and on television as well as one of the most imported voices on foreign affairs and future warfare anywhere and i'm going to longing of the book, 2034, this was one that elliott wrote together with admiral and is just absolutely brilliant brilliant piece of future ologies and fiction writing. finally, two of our outstanding

senior fellows come affiliated with our center in south asia center respectively, both have extensive experience in dealing withn issues from security and peace building perspectives and her moderator will go into that more in a minute and convening such as nesta the integral mission, and developing it sustainable nonpartisan strategies to address the most important security challenges of our day and at the same time where the legacy of general and america's final withdrawal from afghanistan last year marking of a war to reshape the country to many other things as well. in the united states in afghanistan after the 911 terrorist attacks, degrading al qaeda and eventually killing whilee temporarily removing the telephone regime and lives in every day afghans to transformed

and lost along the way in our panel today our panel reflect in the past looking forward as well as will have personal reflections including some of the strong themes really it's new book and when year after that withdrawal from afghanistan faces an uncertain future mobile the future hold. how will the withdrawal of the american and without, living pass. >> range. and he will moderate this event and filing about before fsu met them up by both of those books. >> thank you a much, it is an honor to be here today ins moderating this panel and fred did a good job of setting the stage for today's discussion i think there are really two occasions, one is that one year anniversary roughly one year of

u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan and america's involvement in the longest war in the race of the big questions that we will discuss today about american strategy and about the experiences of our service members and conditions of the grounded today in afghanistan, and about efforts to resettle the afghans to aid in the u.s. war effort for the occasion as fred mentioned is the publication of elliott new which is a terrific book so congratulations elliott, i highly recommended so the plan for today is for me to moderate the discussion with our distinguished panel i will do that for 35 minutes or so and then i will turn to the audience questions and answers be thinking of your questions now and iff you want to ask a question you can do that in the q&a function here on zoom, we can also ask a question on

twitter using the # and so without further ado let's go ahead and begin the discussion and elliott, here the author of this terrific new book and i think we will start with you and i just finished the book last night. i really enjoyed it and i wish i would write the way that you do, nonfiction that reads like fiction for the narrative about well maybe it will let you do it and tell us about this both and tell us why you decided to write it. >> personal, thank you that and thank you to everyone on the council for having us today to talk about this and reflect on how this war finished one year ago. is specific to your question matt, wire of this book kind of comes a little bit into the title of the book, why it's called the fifth act in

afghanistan about a year ago, as afghanistan was falling television for moving in to kabul and just asked if you would contribute 500 word essay amongst a series of essays by the situation in front of mine said vote but he want me to write about and most people in america have not been following the story maybe you can summarize what is happened in the last 20 years because everybody thinks is a tragedy enemas will first of all, the idea of trying to summarize a 20 year war in 500 horses just like an absurd writing assignments, but the use of the word tragedy, got me thinking pretty hard to approach a small assignment with intent yes this is a tragedy

people asked why did so many americans feel this when we pulled out and if you look at tragedies, from shakespeare all of the way back to the inches tragedies typically follow up five act structure is on this very small minute writing i just read write about the presidencies george bush barack obama, donald trump, president joe biden, and fifth act becomes the tele- man so give me a structure in the book you will see there is an overarching framework. talking about what i believe are key themes in the war and the administration to administration because it makes it unique is the numbers of administrations that presided over it but in the book, also is part memoir and so when i originally signed up to write this book, as when write it sure 30000 word paperback original and sort of more just

politics and policy related what is happening in afghanistan and within about three weeks of signing up to do that, like many veterans and journalist and activister millie anyone who was invested in afghanistan for about 20 years as the country was falling to the taliban might entire network lit up with people i knew asking for help of primarily friends of friends of friends were asking for help. like so many others, i was immersed in you know what some people call the digital crowd source evacuation out of afghanistan so that the five political acts of the book but tell the story of the five distinct evacuation cases that i was closely involved with over the summer and each of the five prickly had a different outcome, some have been so happy and then the laste kind of line the book,

anything this is a theme across the entire effort and what is the mean on the idea that we don't leave anybody behind which is a code is really central in the military not unique to this notoriously idea that is as old as the ward if you look back to the ancient stories we tell about the way that the kelly audience, is after achilles killed hector, he grazed hector's body back to the camp when finals scene is king of the trojans, pleading with achilles to allow him to return his son home to give a proper burial living up to that ideal of we don't leave anybody behind and so, nothing rose with the bucket also i care memoirists taken last summer, critically one

incident afghanistan, ambush those involved and when my comrades was killed we struggled to get his body outing present memory to get trudged back up to the surface and for me, to assess question when summing to me, to leave no one behind and what is been torn nation to leave no one behind. sue was at a time to goes up to 50000-foot policy levels and then he goes way down to the beyond ground realities both the last summer but even the war itself, more than a decade ago and so it's real he came to write the book. >> that's terrific, your best-selling author and you published everywhere really comes through anyone also say that you're a decorated veteran,

five tours in iraq afghanistan and so when you're after the withdrawal, i think one of the things you tell about the book is the memory that comes about talking about your time difference are, how do you not calling you certainly think about the warbo in afghanistan w when you're after the u.s. withdrawal. >> i think that it is, when the war was ending, one of the things i think was remarkable for me in the book sort of opens and makeup of how long he had lived with the war. they began to resonate his are trying to wrap your head around what opposed afghanistan reality looks like, for the afghanistan some of it as veterans what is mean that the war is now over.

in those days, weeks is coming to a close last year and i recognize i'm none the work and participated and spent that time with my children wife and my life in the war had had obviously touched on and always been there, just fine thread in my look back you asked by the veteran and i l look at my clost relations at internships that i have with my wife, people i served with, some people who were similarly touched by the more and we overlook their. so even though war is over, his legacy lives on in us but there's also businesses when you're out, particularly among my cohort of veterans that

there's been assessment in america's kind of turning the page on afghanistan is much as everyone said unfortunate how things ended their irt don't thk anybody would say that the weeks of evacuation were o america's brightest hour. there's a sense of wanting to collectively move on if there's nothing else i can be done about afghanistan, to be fatalism this misguided because there's still a lot to be done. not necessarily within afghanistan that we can talk about it, but we did get tens of thousands of afghans into the - many afghans and they might be american citizenship of their certainly american heroes and these are people who lead alongside us, and fighting for objectives the right lighting

with our national interest here in the united states and they are currently here on humanitarian parole so many of them cannot work and many be explored and deported and now is winding its way through congress, the afghan smith act because critically important, these people that we evacuated last summer, green cards and get them workingge with them on the pathway to citizenship and user american heroes when they become citizens,, they will become incredible americans on benches were of observing this when you're more, it's important to recognize there is still work to be done and much good can come out of how this ended. >> there is still work to be done ♪ ♪ back to those themes in a moment when we talk about the ongoing work on the afghan but i

want to come to you admiral the distinguished career as fred pointed out, and the allied commander nato and courses was not just the u.s., and the only time with nato has been invoked so i want to ask you about that but first, there are also regarded as one of the country's leading strategic center so something that we can go to the venture and ask you what is that war in afghanistan and lessons learned mean for u.s. strategies we have debates of mtn wars a debate about whether the chaotic nature of the withdrawal harmed american credibility but i want to hear from you. when the major lessons learned at a strategic level on the word afghans can. >> i wouldld be glad to pick upn la is.on what we owe the afghans were still in afghanistan and

those coming here i know that will be more to be said of this but the point about the immigrant experience in here you have quite extraordinary group of people who managed to get ouf that like elliott and many other veterans, how is involved in this seen so many different stories about it there's a point want to make, how much courage and true grit does it take to grab your four -year-old hannah put your two -year-old and her back, call your way into an airport, get across the border and somehow find your way to the united states. i want that person on my team in the first generation will start out doing some pedestrian things in the second generation, will be starting great companies in

the third-generation fully running ford motor company's and this will be good for our country by the way, my theory, this course is exactly what happened with withdrawal from faith is worth making that comparison which many have about the two experiences and matt, to get to theat strategic level pie of this, let me do it from the inside out if you welcome and i think that elliott is right, many americans have sort of minimally checked out of the problem of afghanistan for a variety of reasons and you can unpack and let's stipulate that's not a lot of people are serious and paying attention to what was going on and then you have is extremely chaotic throw which does us no credit whatsoever obviously in the course of watching that unfold, i think that

many americans kind of shook their heads and said, that is what happened, when you get involved in these overseas wars so inside of the united states unfortunately this what would chilling effect on other scenarios locally with united states they ought to be involved in the real question is what is the degree of involvement we've had some very successful engagements for example in columbia, the extraordinary success my view both legs, we had a rock little case to see were iraq plans ultimately give us anything has been very hard thing for the nation for the point is that the afghans fifth act that elliott eliminates in this brilliant book as a believer kind of a chilling

effect and others inside of the policies of america will point to it and say, that is what we don't want to be involved in these kinds of scenarios in the inside out, the allies and friends, and the ending in the fifth act and they say, the u.s. is nots. reliable in the u.s. ds not stand with allies in the u.s. cannot get organize and can't orchestrate and work with partners in the disconnect between the nato partners who ironically fought together for 20 years, in the chaos of the withdrawal, notable and by our allies that the united states that instance and in those months was not stepping up to organize this animal 400 compared way we can argue abouta the selection of the date and technical things that occurred were broadly speaking, our allies discouraged shall be

saved watching this and third and finally, our opponents and again inside out in america and her allies and opponents were emboldened, no question about that in personally coming to drop a plumb line from the events always to the following february when putin decided to invade ukraine ira think he took the wrong lesson from out any think he is paying for mightily but i think our opponents watch this of afghanistan and felt america can't get organized get out of its own way internal discord prevents it from acting brilliantly i think that is being put is a lie is what is happening today in ukraine by the way but now i has purchased strategically globally so there's a snapshot of the key things to learn the right lessons from this, the wrong

one, thank you. >> that was great, thank you admiral and three points of invocation, domestically for the allies and adversaries, mostly negative is understandable, you also see accomplishment in the 20 year war and he is maybe related, are there ways that we can maybe mitigate some of those downside consequences that you cotalk about. >> i think there is positive effect inside of afghanistan, hundreds of thousands if not millions of afghans have learned as a result of her intervention and generation of afghans maybe will be frustrated and better t when exposed them to broader ideas and we talked a moment ago about the diaspora which will come from this and has already incurred in many places and these are brilliant motivated

people and they are going toee succeed here, all of the accounts on the positive side of the ledger for the file have is in fact out to afghanistan, and part of the al qaeda network there seems to be researching of course, but did serious damage to it and i would say as a veteran i get this question a lot from the veterans, why did we go in the answer was that we went because we were attacked from afghanistan is been 20 years following 911, not attacks in any significant way by any global terrorist network and i think that is partly result of pathe work goes in afghanistan, not just the military, the volunteers in the peace corps in our aib workers and all of us can take some pride in that accomplishment and then i smiled

we found osama bin laden and that is a good thing in my view so therey is some meaningful net positives that come out i think the key is where we made mistakes we've articulated and we have to learn to know and calibrate engagements in ways that would make this look more like outcomes unless like the ones we just saw in afghanistan. >> thank you for both you and elliott talk about theyo efforto resettle afghan to work with customer north and want to come to you next, course you are a veteran as well former navy service officer counterterrorism analyst in afghanistan and served as a cultural advisor to the u.s. forces there and since then you been working out ceo of honor across and enjoyed

nonprofit focus on the partner and i know you been involved in united states and you talk about your efforts basic question is how we doing, are we living up to the promises were made to those who helped us bring the war in afghanistan. >> thank you, i would say that people asked me, but in writing the organization i do say that is because i still look of the united states is a promised land for afghan as it was for me and for my family. the idea that someone can travel across the world to the united states but their head down and work hard to make selling of their selves, we ask how we

doing, unfortunately, not well our afghan partners are often times feeling a sense of relinquishing many of them unfortunately do not speak english fluently there different from our interpreter partners who are eligible for the special visa and elliott mentioned that the majority of afghans are here through parole and allow them to work as an important authorization document this uncertainty of what will happen without parole runs out. it impacts the way that employers feel about having an afghan work in their company and first and foremost, housing, there is a a housing crisis in e united states more broadly and is absolutely impacting our partners ability to find places

where we can actually live in sees their new home in the next of course is the asylum piece, very complicated incentive pop up in the lawyers are asking for $10000 and the head of households to file an asylum application which if you're nott working, company for the $10000 to be able to pay for that asylum application. ... e to take care of yourself and your family members and family who have been left behind in afghanistan. those issues are top of mind. i am very proud of the veteran and military affiliated communities that have come out to all of the various events across the u.s., focusing a light on our afghan partners and

what communities can do at the local level has been uplifting to see that support. we need national policy that will address these shortcomings. if we are going to make these afghan partners actually feel included, like they have a life in the u.s. >> clearly we are not doing all that we can. if you could wave a magic if you could write about a magic wand, what are one or two things you would change? what was the u.s. government be doing, which of the people watching online be doing? what can we be doing to improve our efforts in this regard? >> first f and foremost you can talk to anyone who served in anv capacity in afghanistan their sink please, the afghan adjustment act. the sense of orate that afghans and all of us that are supporting them, that sense of

worry would be alleviated tremendously. to be kicked out of the united states, deported and also that allows them the legal status of thaving a permanent way to citizenship while allowing them to reunify with their families. that stress, that unpredictability, the not knowing of what's going to happen to them is has an impact on their mental health, on their resiliency. the ability to go to work everyi day. to learn english. so if i was clean for the day it be the very first thing i would focus on or ask our government to pass. but at a community level i would ask anybody thats doesn't matter what race you are, what gender you are, what language you speak just please help open up your community. they arere not going to learn to

integrate at the societal level at the community level. we need the opportunity but i see this a nationwide and national problem i believe these solutions are local. in any way as an mayor consistent you may have never spent any time in afghanistan. it's okay if you see an afghan, work at the resettlement agency. just reach out. invite them to come grocery shopping with you. invite their children to come for play dates. these seemed like very small asks but they have a tremendous impact on the mental well-being and the feelings of inclusion for afghan folks. >> very powerful, thanks. there's something we can all duke to contribute.

i think i would like to come to you senior fellow with us as a counsel, a lecturer at george washington university. you are also an author of human security and agency reframing productive power in afghanistan. you've been involved in the afghan peace talks were over a decade. your recent research has focused on conditions on the ground in afghanistan. talk about how that's one of thb areas the united states made a difference while it was there. now of course the taliban has taken back over. there are scientists not living up to the promises it made to uphold women's rights and other things. you are tracking this closely. how do you assess what's going on, on the ground in afghanistan currently? >> thank you for having me. i certainly going to buy it and

read it. as you mentioned ivan currently following the afghanistan issues both on the ground in the region. the taliban takeover meant for the region i have done my research. it was difficult to its unexpected initially. itit was shocking for the population at large. and what a tragedy particularly for the educated class, for the progressive class and the people who the products of the last 20 years. they're very fragile system in a very new republic.

an taliban who have a track record human rights violations in the past. and of first certainly a bad one specifically for particular segment of society and democracy and from the educated class of the society. now, what was happening? there's a high level of w misinformation most of it were not able to track the exact data from the ground for reasons. and a ban on them on certain segments of society. the restrictions on freedom ofn expression. there is the tension of

journalist especially the ones that belong to the last 20 years there was a ban on to come and speak up. they tried at the beginning to speak up about different issues. there's all kinds of atrocities for the first few months of the taliban takeover it was a complex situation. an access information is very difficult. the situation -- there is that security in the reduced corruption. there are two aspects we have been hearing. again the facts are not there to have accepted. about they security, there has

been a reduced level of direct attacks. early in the armed conflict thet last 20 years. it means there should be some level of reduction in the attacks like bombing, like public attacks and many more assassinations that used to be the last 20 years of tactics of the taliban groups. but the nature has changed. therefore as a person who follows security and studies security i would argue differently. the security crisis is are there based on the facts there have been changes in the nature of security. now that change means what?

the place some of those tactics that used to be from the last 20 years. there is suppression there are killings of minorities and their rising against the system. there are all other kinds of insurgencies from across the country who are against the regime it. it gets the taliban regime that is a whole different level of security. will further organize the president unchecked presence of ppp. we have taken northern parts. [inaudible]

this kind of emergence of insurgencies and reorganization and it terrorists groups particularly the presence of al qaeda strive for. these are the facts that can give a hint by the crisis are still there, still desire it hestill urgent. to press into the region if it's not prevented. that's about the security. there is another issue that we have seen with a high level of data that show about the lack of security for people. for example i mentioned the particular segment the they're being tortured, detained and suppressed. women are of the population for they have been deprived. and, on the other hand there

high crisis in the region. people leave the country because of the economic crisis that is taken shape. on the other hand the suppression of our rights and access to rights. therefore they leave the country for there's all kinds of other safety crisis which h have emerd from one area of the taliban takeover that has been struggling with. when it meets for the peace and what it means for the rest in the long term. and on the other hand the regionaleg aspect is going to mention here. there's been a change in that reason the takeover they

withdraw their perceived power. with the invasion of ukraine support of russia getting more engaged in the region. in other countries how aligned with relations with this emerged power. with ron, china, russia. what it means for the country for the region at large. and the relationship with the taliban. there's all kinds of pieces some are struggling. my argument would be the crisis and that reshaping differently for this different formats. it does not mean that

insecurity. i stopped there. >> thank you very much. i noticed as you were talking there's a bunch of related questions popping out. i think we will come back to you and that portion of the discussion. i also noticed the elliott, the author of the book was ready to jump in on theub subject. if i could build on that reading the book but near the end you do get into a policy discussion some analysis and recommendation. and in particular raise the issue of deficit funding the all volunteer military force and some of the implications that has. but if you could share some of his insights with the audience? >> sure. for a second ago from an afghan

specific discussion to an american war making discussion, every war the united states has fought since the revolution has had to have a construct to sustain it. by that i mean generally speaking to sustain two terms. blood and treasure. who is going to fight the war and how are we going to pay for it? if we look back over our history when the constructs of the civil war was the first ever draft in this country's nation as a result of our civil war. as is the first ever income tax. the second world war was a war characterized by natural mobilization we look at the vietnam war and that is a war remember a very unpopular draft that led toas antiwar movements that almost ended the war. when 911 happened in american once again has to mobilize to go to war 30s to be a construct to sustain it.

the construct we very quickly settle on is one in which the world will be fought by at all military. the funding will come out of our deficit. in fact, the last or the united states passed the balance a budget was not byha coincidence, 2001. but the result of that construct is that the american people are a nesta size to the cost of war. if you were to ask me why does the war in afghanistan go on for 20 years? why do we have these forever wars? it is less due to battlefield conditions and more due to the constructs of the war that alloe them to proceed through four different administrations because politically becomes very easy to begin prosecuting these wars. another thing it does as americans is wars used to be something that were experienced generationally. they were generate elation late defining events. the second world war thewa greatest generation.

even the first world war the lost generation. i lookon at my own generation hw we experience the 9/11 oars, i have never felt like i was part of a lost generation. i actually felt more like i wasn the loss part other generation. as we look at american sick society we see the trend of, atomization, all of us descending into her various subgroups it becomes a very unhealthy thing for a democracy when the military it follows that trend. wars are just fought by a subsection of our society. as we hit the end of 20 years of war, as much as we are talk about the geopolitics, afghanistan how it relates to ukraine, how it relates to authoritarianism around the globe. it is also equally important if not more critically important to reflect on how these wars were waged inside of america. how we are waging oars.

i would finish by saying it's particularly essential to do that. our adversaries look at us and correctly say our own internal dysfunction stands in our way from holding up a i real shield for western liberal values around the world. the greatest national security threat around the united states as our own dysfunction. too also ask in the future. i will show my handay here. i think a waging war were society at large does not have skin in the game is probably not the way to wage for war going forward it's ten or 20 or conflicts. >> important insights, think you elliott.o i do want to go to q and a now. i say we have a number of questions in the chapter.

some coming in on twitter. if you like to join the conversation, please do. ask your question in the q&a function or on twitter with #. former ambassador to the osce former governor of virginia. this question is for you admiral. can you tell the u.s. military assessment, so sensually the total withdrawal some kind of u.s. presence that could have remained in afghanistan and prevented this outcome? >> governor, thank you for attending the webinar. thanks for a great question. the shortest answer, yes i think there was an alternative. obviously the biden administration disagrees with tithat view. just to kind of do the numbers for people, when i commanded this mission for four years we had 150,000 troops there. byoo the time we get close to te

withdrawal we are down to 15000 for it here i'm talking about coalition troops about 15000. we'd already withdrawn 90% of the troops before we start to chip away both the trump administration and the biden administration comes in and pulls out the very last punch. my own view, this is arguable. my own view is we should have maintained i would say ballpark 10,000 troops coalition. i think the year old would gladly have put up 5000 -- 7000. we could've made up the bulk of that provided intelligence logistics, ongoing engagement. once the biden team will tell you that it's a good counter, thede tele- ban were just waiti. they were poised, they were ready to strike at a moments

notice.t counterfactual who knows what would have happened if we would have maintained a mission there. resident biden gets paid to make a really big, really hard decisions. i respect him for doing that. his call was no, we are going to cut the cord we are out of here. i think we could have maintained 10,000 -- 15000 tops. frankly that is a de minimis level of deployment for the united states and europe. we have 40000 troops in korea. we have 60000 troops in europe. i think those are good numbers. personally i would've cap 10,000 u.s. troops there quite gladly. suit the next turn of the wheel is prebuilt never know how that would've turned out. i look at the evidence of how we did during this withdrawal. as adr possibility, i think a pretty good one we could have to continued on, continued the march the president made a different decision. >> think you admiral.

there is a function where the speakers can indicate they like to respond to questions. i see you would like to receive and reply to this question but how is that possible after 20 years our military never prepared the afghans to fight on their own? >> it's a question i hear very often. afghans do not have a problemho fighting. i thinkin anyone who spent timen afghanistan can attest to this, elliott you can probably attest to this. there is no issue ofne fighting. they're willing to fight they want to fight they have been fighting. in terms of the number, the numbers do not lie. hundreds of thousands of afghans have taken up arms in afghanistan over the last several decades fought and died. fighting is not the issue. the greater issue for all of us to really think about is when we

create a system that is so incredibly and then we also centralize it.y and then we say to a different country, best of luck to you as we leave. then we cannot expect a positivf outcome. we taught the afghan military to be subservient to a civilian authority, which we should. thatat is that government misuse the afghan security forces. i have been saying thatsa for years. many other analysts would tell you that. the u.s. military think did a very good job of helping afghans learn how to use our weapon system, our helicopters, our ways of doing operations. and while we were there we could

mentor and train and advise those operations went well because wee were there to suppt from the logistical side. the afghan government highly centralized i heard numerous state there been times i felt like i was fighting the taliban and my own government at the same time i could not get the resources that i needed in a timely manner. as of the issue is not fighting. afghans have fought. they will no doubt continue to fight. that is not the issue, theheat problem. our military did fight alongside those afghans based alongside us. but what we did not do is actually help them learn the phd level of military operations which is that logistical peace. how are they going to be sustainable? we never create a system that was sustainable. >> let me just add one really

simple analogy to that, agreeing completely with lilette. if you go back to the american revolution and look at the protagonists in that, we train an army of redcoats. we should have trained them to be minutemen. the tele- ban or that minutemen. they had logistics, they moved quickly, they shot from behind cover. we trained their weight we fight. i think that was a heart of our error. i think all of us in the military who were decision-making will need to own that part of the miscalculation. >> there's another point also. the first of the fighting there all political dynamics in the entire process.

those are political events and political dynamics and undermining the confidence best to sit down in many districts in the towel bond were approachinge it's back that political event which undermines the confidence in addition to many other impacts that has on the all in all i think that had. >> i think it's irresistible and unfortunate. but i will make the comparison. the mere zelenskyy, leadership matters. how leaders comport themselves under fire, matters. in this case the political will

was simply lacking. >> thank you all. good insights. looking at the clock i think we have time for one more question and i see using this function elliott would like to respond to a question from samantha sloan at american university. how can the u.s. rehabilitate its as a defender and advocate of human rights question rick whatd should the u.s. do to mitigate the effect of its failures on the afghan people particularly women. any final thoughts you'd like to leave with the audience would be welcome as well. ask and think there's great deal of the united states can do to rehabilitate reputation abroad.

for doing and part of the ukraine. it is remarkable as we sit here when you're out to just recognize the year we lived. the only time nato is one of nato's darkest hours. which was this evacuation from the airport and we saw thehs images a year ago. then within six months of that is a head head dizzying speed we see one of the n brightest hours which is way the alliance and the face of russian aggression in ukraine. afghan has a tendency, least i observe in our conversation is to stovepipepe afghanistan. we talk about as though it does not relate to the rest of the world and the united states. we just tied a thread but nato

not stood firm with ukraine and had not mounted roll through ukraine will be talking about although we are already talking about it much more earnest terms but the future of taiwan was going to be because then we would be watching a rising access of authoritarian nations sweeping across the globe. because afghanistan matters in the global balance of power at as it exists with these other issues. wouldn't it be nice right now if we still had access as united states and nato to these airbases that share a border with china.

x little snippet. >> china is not a little one. i think going forward the united states might say afghanistan is certainly not of the united states. we need to watch that space. >> thank you all very much. i think we've only begun to scratch the surface on some of these issues. but unfortunately i think we need to leave it there we are out of time. i am sorry we did not have time to get to you. meet wrap us up here. thank our terrific panelists for joining us today. thank you so much. thanks to all of you for attending today's event.

if you have not read it yet i would highly recommend by elliotts, a terrific book. it really does permit nonfiction it's a compelling read. thank you all very much. and please come back to events in the near future. and cute. >> cspan2 is your unfiltered view of government. funded by these television companies and more including cox. >> homework can be hard. squatting in a diner for internet work even harder. providing lower income students to access to affordable internet. so homework and just be homework. cox connect to compete. >> cox, along with these other television providers giving you front row seats to democracy.

>> coming up tonight on cspan2 senator lindsey graham announces new abortion legislation conversation at the trump administration family separation policy. later president biden's nominee to leave the u.s. space force testifies at a confirmation hearing in front of the senate armed services committee. ahead of the 2020 midterm elections senate lindsey graham announced legislation that would ban most abortions nationwide after 15 weeks. he spoke along with pro-life groups laying out the framework of the bill paid senate minority leader mitch mcconnell and senate majority leader would later offer their perspectives on grams legislation. x thank you all. welcome ladies. this makes me look better