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anything. comcast, along with these television companies support cspan2 as a public service. generate six committee returns thursday for its hearing head of the release of the written reports expected by the end of the year. you can watch the hearing it live it beginning at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, or anytime on demand at c-span.org. ask scott horton is a director of the libertarian institute the editorial director of antiwar.com. and the author of this book, and enough already time to end the war on terrorism. mr. horton, it is 20 years since 9/11. and u.s. troops in afghanistan, what is your reflection on that? speak to a sparsely war in

afghanistan goes, we never should have thought of her the whole war on terrorism could have been over by christmas 2001 at the w bushch had focused ther efforts on either the extradition of allocated to america or another friendly country or on targeting the gilts in the very small number of al qaeda fighters hiding out in afghanistan. instead he wrote for regime change that did not attack us on then to wageus a 20 year war against all of its enemies in attempt to prop that new government up. and now for 20 years they have admitted what is been true for at least ten which is that the war is a loss the taliban has one. they never could have won that war. andd now the proof is in the putting that the critics were right all along and the proponents were wrong. >> 20 years later the u.s. is pulling out of afghanistan, what do you think the results will be? looks well, i think it's going to be real trouble for the

parties american has supported and power for all this time. america fought for the super majority. i was not really a victory because they did not need us and kicked america right out since we were done winning the war fon them. but the government america create in baghdad is still the government of our rock. in afghanistan the situation is different. essentially attempting to hoist a coalition ofal minorities the 40% of the population. they have essentially no political representation in thei government. and have been sworn to resist american occupation since they started fighting it back in 200. and so they are going to take over the country almost certainly. that means there's going to be to pay for those who been propped up in power byy the united states so far. it would be great if they could

negotiate some kind of peacefulb resolution to the problem in the form of a new government there. but frankly i do expect the worst. see what in your book, enough already what you mean by that? irex well, low back was a term coined by the central intelligence agency after the coup in iran in 1953. it means not just consequences but long-term consequences of secret foreign policies. so that when they come back to haunt the united states the american people do not understand the real context of what is going on too. but with the iranian revolution of 1979 and the ayatollah calling us the great stay tunedd and burning the american flag. the american people did not of the cia had overthrown the government of iran 25 years before. t this was a consequence of that. the same kind of thing pretty fact that senior 1979 jimmy carter on july 3 signed a finding authorizing cia to start

backing in afghanistan. an attempt to provoke the soviets into invading that country. in the words of the carter miss trish at the time, the purpose of this was to give the soviets their own vietnam. a hopeless long-term no-win war that breaks the bank and destabilizes the country. and we did that. through the reagan years, thisk policy continued on and included not just backing the afghan movie but tens of thousands hope for called the arab afghans the army not just arabs but actually muslims from chechnya, the philippines, the united states and especially the middle east who all traveled to afghanistan to help fight against the soviet union. then when america occupied permanently occupied saudi arabia ander preparation for irq war one and then permanently throughout the 1990s and the rest of the 20th century and bombed -- my continued to bomb iraq from this place is in

arabia. that is what caused osama bin laden inen their group to turn against their former patrons, the united states of america. first and foremost the basis inr saudi is to bomb iraq and the no-fly zone through the 1990s. support for israel their occupation of palestine and at that time of lebanon. support for dictators around the middle east such as the king in saudi arabia att that time egyp. pressure on those nations to keep production high in oil prices artificially low to subsidize our economy at theirns expense. and bin laden criticized america for turning a blind eye to russia, china, india and pakistan for their wars and suppression of a muslims. actually the bill clinton government supported the al qaeda forces and al qaeda linked

forces in bosnia, coso and chechnya. even though they'd been attacking us all through the 1990s. in america is in fact picking up tabs for the russian war against the chechen rebels at the same time they were backing the chechen rebels. in effect after september 11, bill clinton and brad sherman all three said something to the effect of how could these muslims attack us after all we have done for them? but the reality was the occupation of saudi arabia had not seize the bombing of eyebrow did not seize the support forot israel the dictatorship. the democrats had failed to bribe off these al qaeda terrorists. all of their motives to attack the united states were still on. and importantly it was not just that they are angry about the policies, they had a strategy breadth strategy was to provoke the united states into doing something stupid. and rules for radical asymmetric

political action is moving terrorism. the action is in the reaction of the opposition. in this cases al qaeda were not trying to get america to turn around and run away, they didn't think that would work for their trying to provoke a full-scale invasion of afghanistan so they can replicate the ward that we had help them fight against the soviets in the 1980s. to bog us down and lead us to bankruptcy force the american empire out the long way in the hard way. when effect osama bin laden's son omar gave an interview to "rolling stone" magazine in 2010 when bin laden was still alive. he said when bush won the election of 2000 he said my father was so happy. this is the kind of president he needs one who will attack and break the country. and so he said in clinton's time

khrushchev was after my father he got away. then again he'd been in afghanistan for ten years and they still don't have an clinton's time america was smart. not like the bull that runs after the run scarf. this was in a very important point. bret stephens the "new york times" for example just a couple of months ago wrote an article criticizing the withdrawal from afghanistan inciting bin laden's taunts that america's a paper tiger will turn around and run away if we give them truck bombing or two. brett stevens one of the leading opinion writers of the "new york times" newspaper record in america said this is proof america must state continue to double and triple them forever and ever. these were simple taunts by bin laden because that is exactly the reaction they were trying to get out of brett stevens and the american establishment. that america needs to stay at war until we literally cannot anymore because our dollar is

completely destroyed and our empire is completelyy i broken. proxy subtitle of your book is time to end the war on terrorism. how do you define that war? what date do you see it started? maxwell, the real war on terrorism began in 2001 after september 11. of course a cia head efforts against al qaeda around the middle east in the years leading up to that. but, in essence the war on terrorism has been a bait and switch prefer the very beginning the bush government conflated al qaeda with the taliban who not only had not attacked us but something foreign minister to war the americans of an impending attack. and then from there they immediately conflated bin laden and his group of radicals with saddam hussein the atheist dictator of iraq. a land where the word no al qaeda members there had never been a suicide bombing in theto entire history of the country.

theyey use the fear of terrorism and the fear of a completely phony, fake dishonestly claimed alliance between saddam hussein and osama bin laden to officially live to the people of the united states into that war. and from their breath with a former chief of the cia bin laden unit said if afghanistan was all bin laden ever wanted then america going to iraq to attack what bin laden called the socialist infidel, saddam hussein was the hoped-for but unexpected gift to bin laden. my take inside the shiites there america drove the suny minority population of the country intove the arms of the bin laden in their ranks swelled from 400 men at the time of september 11 attack to tens of thousands during that war. and then luckily the local suny tribal leaders marginalize allocated 2006 and seven and solve that problem for us to a

great degree. but then, just at the time barack obama was killing osama bin laden and pakistan in the spring of 2001, he was taking his side in libya and then in sierra. the libyans and syrians had gone to iraq to fight with al qaeda in iraq against the united states and shiite forces there had now come home just as bin laden and them had come home for the 19 '80s war in afghanistan to cause trouble. these guys came to start a revolution and libya the islamic fighting group come al qaeda and the islamic, these guys fought in iraq or two. and obama took their side and a nine month air war in special operations war to overthrow qaddafi who was murdered on the side of the roadn the country ws a plunge into absolute turmoil and violence of a civil war that has been raging ever since that time. and then it took the jihadists

and the guns and ship them off to sierra for the next regime change. and as barack obama explained tn jeffrey goldberg in 2012 goldberg said you know the iraq war has empowered by iran. don't you think if we got rid of the shaw of sierra that would help bring our rundown a pig? and obama says absolutely. jeffrey goldberg says what more can be done to see this through to make it happen sooner? and obama says essentially the old line i'd tell you but i have to kill you. i cannot toe jeffrey because your classified clearance is not high enough. what he meant by that the united states is already launched a covid action campaign in coordination with saudin arabia, qatar, turkey, jordan and israel to support al qaeda in iraq, in sierra. they called the moderate rebels they are nothing but the head chopper suicide bomber enemies

from iraq or two. until that war ended up bleeding is john kerry explained in a secretly recorded discussion with syrian rebels, led to the ikeda forces and isis which split off from al qaeda decided not to march west to damascus but instead to go east and conquer all of western iraq. being to the islamic state which of the days of george w. bush was the wildest war propaganda of liars like t glenn >> said there is a fascist caliphate out there that's coming to get us. there's nothing but nationstates in the way. though since osama bin laden's wildest dream hiding in thees attic. and yet with bush's war in iraq and obama's war in sierra they succeeded in the impossible creating a literal bin laden with fascist as they call it for three years from 2014 -- 17 the

size of great britain with tens of thousands in their army leading to iraq or three in total casualties in iraq in sierra of certainly more than half a million. they have done the same thing with debate and switch down any yemen. where barack obama had a war beginning in 2009 of cia and al qaeda in the arabian peninsula but not just al qaeda tied actors but real al qaeda terrorists would help coordinate september 11, who bomb the ss: 2000, attempted to blow up a bombing in detroit on christmas day 2009. and obama was bombing them. i'll skip the politics it's a complicated mess by thehe end of 2014 shiite group friendly with iranut came out of the north and sacked the capitol city. but at the time that happened you could all read this in the wall street journal and a great

piece in the monitor from generate 2015, our current secretary of defense lloyd austin was a four-star general. he made a deal is that you guys like killing al qaeda? no problem. he was funneling them intelligence to used to target and kill al qaeda in the arabian peninsula for those generate 2015. just two months later barack obama stabbed them in the back and took al qaeda side against them in the war launched by saudi arabia, united arab emirates and their allies including the united states which helped with the war from the very beginning obama gave the green light for them to begin it. and al qaeda has been a major part of the coalition this whole time. cnn did a story a couple of years ago about how the uae had given al qaeda armored personnel carriers they were using not just to drive around and joyriding but taking into

battle. after al qaeda had seized the port town and a couple others this is really embarrassing for the coalition. the uae made a deal with them. they would integrate them into their militia. and so the obama and the trump governments and now into biotin, pretend they still have a warl against al qaeda in the arabian peninsula but that is just not true. al qaeda in the irradiance have been integrated to the uae armed moshe force on the ground for the americans are flying as air cover and acting as part of the coalition with the bin laden knights against their enemies, just because their friends with iran. even though it was bin laden who hit the towers not by ron enough there and hezbollah or others. sue clicks you may say this is a false question but how do we protect american interests abroad in the war on terror?

>> the first think we should do is stop supporting terrorist groups. they say we cannot leave afghanistan we will leave a safe haven behind. but our government still supports al qaeda in sierra. still supports in this war frankly genocidal proportions against the civilian population ofofio yemen. and we continue to target with brutal sanctions the iranian and syrian regimes that are at the top of the list. the first thing for regime change himself. the firstel thing we should do s stop supporting terrorism. and then as far as the threat of further anti- american terrorism we have to call off the entire policy of american dominance of the middle east. that is the cause of the terrorism problem against the united states in the first place. so ending the war on terrorism won't do because then we will

still be at risk. what has to happen is the middle part of north america has to renounce their pretended mandate to rule the rest of the world and particularly the arab middle east now. rex scott horton is the author of this book, enough already time to end the war on terrorism. he is also the director of the libertarian institute, editorial director antiwar.com which is what? >> antiwar.com is the most t important project on the internet. we've been around for 25 years, right about everything the whole time and the records prove it. we are at liberty are not interventionalists but we are very catholic in our organization. we feature all the best writers from the left, right, around the world and anyone as long as it's on strict nonintervention for policy with the best news writers, best columnist is the

most important project on the internet today. >> just to extrapolate a little bit we been talking about the war on terror.ar but do you think american forcea should be brought back from korea? should the u.s. have international basis? >> no. in fact our constitution describes a limited republic rather than a worldimth empire. there is no threat in korea, japan, or you're up for that. the only reason the americans obstruct reunification korea is because they want to be able to hold the north korean threat as blackmail over south korea and japan to let us keep our troops there. but if we just let the south koreans drive they would reunify pre-they would make a deal and reunify with the north, the americans would cease preventing it. as far up europe goes look what's going on now the controversy were biden is

supposedly in trouble now or ceasing, obstructing germany and russia from creating this natural gas pipeline now, your audience is familiar with the fact the last two times in germany and russia fought it was the worse thing that had ever happened. and now we have the germans who has donald trump complaint refused to spent 2% of gdp on g their military. in fact they are building a pipeline with the russians to expand trade and economic interdependence with them. that's because anil merkel and her government do not believe the russians are coming. the reason why is because the russians aren't coming for the soviet union has been dead and gone for 30 years. america has expanded nato all the way up to their borders in the baltic states and have threatened parentally elite to bring ukraine and georgia into

nato. because the united states in our world empire are the aggressors in the d stabilizers in eastern europe. if we could but out things to be much better pickwick scott horton has joined us from freedom fast the annual libertarian convention being helped in rapid city, south dakota this year. his book, enough already, time to end the war on terrorism. mr. horton, thank you for your time. >> thank you very much for having me peter. >> weekends on c-span2 our intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's story. and on sunday, boo tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for cspan2 outcomes of these television companies and more. including a while. >> the world has changed. today a fast reliable internet connection is something no one can live without. so well is there for our customers with speed,

reliability, value and choice. now more than ever it starts with great intranet. >> a while, along with these television companies support cspan2 as a public svice. on wednesday british prime minister liz trust takes questis on economic and foreign policyssues facing the uk. through the first prime minister question time since the death ethically. live coverage from house of commons begins at 7:00 a.m. eastern on cspan2, on c-span now are free video app and online at c-span.org. degenerate 60 minute returns thursday for its ninth hearing. ahead of the release of the written reports, expected by the end of the year. you could watch the hearing live beginning at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, or anytime on demand at c-span.org.