tv John O Neill and Sarah Wynne The Dancer and the Devil CSPAN October 17, 2022 10:34pm-11:37pm EDT
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were deployed by the former soviet union today's successor state the russian federation. well as aea people's republic of china north korea. it is a great honor to have attoday's presentation with the authors of the book the dancer in the devil, stalin, pavlova and the road to the great pandemic. the book covers about 100 years of history and the use of both chemical poisons and bio weapons. it's in a way that's pretty sobering when you're done with the book and you realize the magnitude of what is madonna in the past. if i may elect to introduce the authors. we have with this john o'neill and sarah wynne. john is a co-author was sarah of the book we're going to be discussing this afternoon for graduate than the united states naval academy in 1967 but served in vietnam aboard the swift boat
is on the brown water navy going up the rivers and deltas but in the southern part of southor vietnam. he was decorated of course for his service there. i don't to the university of texas lawe school. e finished as the top graduate brady had a clerkship with chief justice at the supreme court and has a really funny story about that, i urge our folks in the legal department to stick around after the presentation may be asked about the story with chief justice rehnquist did a pretty humorous. after practicing as a litigator firm.ternational law let's actually you. i skipped a bullet point there how terrible.
back to john o'neill, had several hundred cases that you tried including representation for this is interesting and ironic. youth represent the people's republic of china at one point, successfully but then realize perhaps what they're all about decide not to do it everag agai. sarah wynne is of course a co-author with john o'neill for you also graduate university of texas law degree and under graduate degree of high honors. and after practicing asga a litigator international law firm you decide to take up law. cracks acrylic art i found dollars in the southeast. you live in houston right? what i do indeed. let me ask the two of you, why this book?
listen to the fall of the soviet union and the brief. when the soviet archives are open to the public. what sparks you into writing this? >> we'd written other books that were bestsellers. i began by remembered all the people i saw slaughtered in vietnam and in hong kong. hong kong harbor during the great cultural revolution. i love these people should not be forgotten. so i began look at stores. you talked about marxist lot in the 20th century's happen to be a few pros troubled on the story of anna and by the grace international figure of that's our time in the 1920s and
early 1930s. when she died he kept telling people she was poisoned. she was poisoned by the food in paris. she said it over andnd over agan emile upon climbing in a train. it remained a mystery for years why she thought academy award winner 1932 for best picture is called the grand hotel. it is about the mysterious death of a russian ballerina loosely based on anna h pavlova. we stumbled upon showing the nshopper operation of the russin poison ring called iasi was gang operated in paris and using anthrax to poison a large number of people. it isn't that they were embarrassed by their proud of it. very proud of it for their all executed by stalin in the end. once we got pup lola and was the example of what was happening, she became the heart of the
book, why? first she was poisoned. he was killed with anthrax. she leads directly into the use of a bio weapons facilities, poisons and so on and continued long pass and a couple of his time to the present. second, she was the embodiment of cultural war. 19208 relate 19205 the soviet union embarked upon suppressing all thoughts, ideas and so on. i had said needs to control the memes of production. the bank, the oil company and so on. it went way beyond that. he said it marxism, the government needs to control the mind of man for the need to control the actual language that he uses.
he needs to eliminate stalin said the word god. the word god itself has to be eliminated by 1935. and so he embarked upon our tremendous kill off not only of political opponents but cultural opponents. not only in russia but western europe. and rush of book accounts are some ofro the people who produce the wrong ballet they produce russian bally's from 19204, 25. their accounts of stall and he did find favorable. or even they just put on music that he did not like. and he killed him. he had to do it secretly by the way he did it secretly was through bio weapons like anthrax and through poisons of various kinds that are outlined in the book. and a pup lola was a great cultural symbol of russia to the entire world.. she danced the nutcracker, swan lakin and all of those there's
always a russian nobleman there's a picture of christmas that is happy. as a cultural challenge to stalin he could not allow to exist. and that is why he is the iasi at gagnon paris outlined in the book to kill her. the organization what what was called lab one lettuce into the actual soviet bio weapons production as late as the 1970s, 80s, 90s and the gun under putin. the two bio war labs set up not only in the soviet union but in china. until that took us another year to the research on china. that is for the book came about and how the book in general came about. >> one of things that struck me but i suppose it makes sense after the fact is the extent to
which stalin went to cover these things up. you go to the creation of lab one. then remarkably all of the executioners saved a very small number of them with themselves executed. the scientists and the doctors. these novel poisons. were you just stunned when you came across the evidence that is what occurred? >> we came across killing after killing 41 to cover his tracks exclusively. he even did so with various poisons but sometimes he would say i want to be known for having killed this person, to put fear into people. other times you do it secretly throughout with called -- for instance chuck if you had respiratory issues that chuck would come down with pneumonia. oh it's too bad he had
respiratory issues and it was actually anthrax. no one questioned if you'd been poison. or if you had for instance heart issues would be given some other virus bacteria that would tell you that way. the non- gang was a poison mechanism in the 1930s. he some the back to moscow 1938 and killed everyone of them. their bodies lie in mass graves in russia. let's outlined in the book. he did the very same thing the people actually killed in 1918, slaughter of the girls and family there all executed 1921 in 19202 and a monastery former monastery located near moscow.
it happened over and over again soviet. >> even at the high levels. lennon was killed by stalin so stuck with the timing of that. you casually say these two monsters, right? lennon was killed by w stalin. what was lennon going to do the day after he was killed? >> lennon had been shot. and so he was ill. >> you tend to get ill after your shot i understand that happen sometimes. the woman shot him was beaten up and shot ray quickly. we never really know how women gott shot. they got shotbl and had to recor her that made a terrible mistake. he had a nickname for this in the book. the stalin controlled all access. he said to build power but finally leonard realized what
was happening. lee composes last testament pretty gave his last testament to his wife the only other person with access to him beside stalin. stalin learned of the last testament in his plan was to present it to a soviet congress in 19204. he went hunting and then a day or two later the day before he was supposed to present at the last testament denounced stalin and called for stalin to be removed. the day before it was presented lennon suddenly and inexplicably died. lennon had other physical problems but the u pathologies studies at the university of maryland concluded lennon cannot possibly have died of what it was claimed he died of. serendipitous death among a whole host of other deaths that occurred suggests strong
evidence that you talk in the book about lennon's brain was preserved even to this day that no into any analysis of its defined in poisons that still might be there in the tissue. >> in the old days go to red squarehe when he fell in disfavr taken out on halloween night. and buried him. and there are actors. one guy playing stalin i don't know if there they are anymore, doubt it in the putin. and i asked the stalin guy could you kill lennon? and he just of smiled. i asked the lennon guy for your killed by stalin? and he nodded yes. the soviet people sort of understand what happen. >> tell me about this guy they
nickname the poisoned dwarf. the thing is interesting to me about the skies the photograph of him with stalin has become a modern internet meme about the george orwell's 1984 memory cold it happens and people get canceled. everyone has seen the picture got stalin in a couple other people next to the canal cap next was small guy the same exact never knew the connection between what he did for stalin and the fact that got him executed. >> is put in charge of the entire kgb. itit bio weapons. expand into huge file weapons' facilities on himself as the
book outlines almost died in an inadvertent it's unfortunate he didn't die, it occurred in 1939. he was so genuinely evil. even allen's friends could not believe they were around a person so evil. short in stature. he loved watching poisoning people he loved beating people to death. he loved he is human misery and so on. he is the one who conducted purge trials of 1937 in 1938 where they were actually executed in stalin's birthday party he pretended to be others and imitate their death and agony. he was a supremely evil man. he himself was destroyed in
executed 1939. in order to conceal all the poisonings he had been involved in. >> people think this is all ancient history install and consolidating power and acting on his paranoia and some would alsay although putin working vey hard to rehabilitate stalin. tells us of the latter cold war. to what ends with laboratory one is it ends up getting replicated. the soviet union begins to be even more sophisticated in its use of bio weapons. they start to realize the possibilities of a mass casualties instead of just killing one or two people. ms. a few interesting things happening. can you talk about these elaborate leaks that happened on whatat that indicated the soviet union was getting into? >> three huge lab at leaks of bio weapons that we are aware of in the 1970s. the first was in 1972 these are all disclosed.
the number two guy in the soviet program defected. he wrote a book all buyer hazard which you can obtain. the first of these were anthrax is a set of bacterial spores. they mimic pneumonia and the lungs fill up with water. they were incurable until the development of various types of treatments. there is a leak of anthrax out of the facility but actually went into the sanitary sources and mutated into a form ofth anthrax the soviets turned and used as their primary form of anthrax for think it was called anthrax 638 but it is in the book. in 1977 in china in western
china the flu went all over the world. it was called the russian flu even though it had appeared in kichina. scientist looked at it you can look it up on wikipedia it's the russian flu. when they looked at it was inexplicable it was exactly the same flu that existed in 1955 men disappeared from the whole world. i said if you were alive and 55 you never got the 77 flu because she were immune from it. they said someone has preservedd this flu in a laboratory and it has escaped. the chinese said we have no idea you're talking about. the russian said not us. much later scientists all over the world that is chemically identical to the 1955 flu. flus migrate mutate it's like
john o'neill going to law school 50 years ago, appearing today i just cannot happen. somebody has to preserve this in the laboratory. happened is in 1994 ahead of the chinese virology program outlined in the book disclosed for the first timed the chinese had preserved 55 flu and a laboratory that leaked they were conducting a vaccine trials try to develop it as an effective bio weapon and they didn't know that's what they had if that got out. that's all 707,000 people died in the world. in 1979 exactly the same thing happen in the soviet union it's called the bio weapons chernobyl. the bio weapons chernobyl you can read the journal of the people that worked on it, they talked about having to kill stray dogs and how silly that
was because they all know it was anthrax. they killed something like 11 or 1200 people we will never know how many. the soviet union at that time claimed it was just matt bad it meet. someone had bought and they tried the butcher amazingly. those were three of the leaks.y >> blaming it on bad meek and rogue illegal butchers seems eerily familiar to a story that appeared a few years ago. >> it was the wet market story but it was exactly the wet market story about 40 years earlier. and not particularly innovative. you can read the actual accounts from in the journals milbury college has actually done. you can read the account of the virologist to study and talk directly to the chinese and doctors who admitted they were developing a bio weapon developing a vaccine to combat a bug that existed only in their own labs.
click let's continue in the late 70s. there is a fascinating incident that i believe happened in london. just again outlined sometimes a regime aims to make a public statement by shooting someone in the open. many times a person inexplicably get sick and dies. tell me about the umbrella. what was that all about? >> i can also speak to this but sometimes in that poison on the end of the umbrella he was poisoned with but sometimes they were shot in the open. sometimes it was very secretive. there'sth a number of ways they could administer these poisons. >> putin has an operation outlined in the book. one of the numbers question. >> unit 29155 began telling
people by 2004 and that ukraine was poisoned with dioxin you can see the pictures of it. you've probably seen a picture of a horrible looking guy a really young guy. and then two seconds he's terrible looking. in 2006 they poisoned a guy in london which is a nerve to poison the soviet army uses. and on his deathbed he said the world will always know now that putin is a poison or parade they ask putin did you poison him? putin said he's no lazarus he won't be coming back. similar poisonings in 2010, 11, and so on. most recently in the way he finally got caught was in england they poisoned the family
in 2018. idiotically they allowed themselves to be caught on video camera. and a blogger was able to take the pictures of them and identify who they were. they were posting on facebook, unbelievably. to the entire unit got identified. the british police working backward identified 14 different people. fourteen different people they had murdered in england alone. most recently eight different families have all died in the soviet union. and in spain. the most recent family they were all families involved with the soviet oil and gas company. why he killed them we do not know. typically a chance husband, wife, little girl. supposedly the husband chops up the wife and the little girl with the hatchet.
and then hangs himself. if you believe that you will believe anything. of course this is a murderer as they explain the function of the letter is to stage a suicide that looks like a suicide. or a a natural death that people in russia at least know is not a natural death or stagee suicide. so the eight different families all murdered in similar fashion sister everybody in russia look if youly oppose putin here not only going to die yourself but your whole family is going to die. your wife is going to die in your little kids are going to die. >> so let's address a critique. you will have some people who will say oh well, the cia has done these sort of things before, right? how are we better than the old
soviet union or the people's republic of china? what would you sayth to people o would bring up the example of the cia several supposedly a failed attempts poison fidel castro foror example? ouwhat is the difference between the sort of activity you outlined ink your book and that sort of thing? >> the first differences 1970 u.s. law was changed to outlaw any of bio weapons to outlaw any poisons. and in 1972 we entered a treaty that we would never do it. there'ss absolutely no evidence of done it since then. even before that time our activities were small on the scale. castro, maybe a couple of other people. we likely we were behind his death. and at south vietnam but we were killing hundreds of people who were involved in a bio weapons to kill hundreds of thousands of
people. there is a tremendous difference in degree from the very beginning. the bio weapons treaty in 1970 through we stopped absolutely stopped any efforts of any kind. but how it discloses in his book that was not a stop with the soviet union. it 1 was a starting point. by the bid 1970s they were spending more money on bio weapons and they were spending on nuclear weapons. minutes prio two going live, which is that you talk about the scale. but i remember, john, you had also said, you know, if we had the ability to poison hitler. of course, would have done it. right. so there is a there's a difference in intent and you mentioned it in so far as the targeting but when you look at, for example stalin going after a ballerina because the sort of cultural that she was represent entered a threat to the legitimacy of his and his regime. and so why you then see people
like that and then their extended all being killed as well. i and their extended families being killed as well. that seems to be a completely different sort of activity. >> there is a huge difference. if you study the history of marxism you say what happens as folks take over on a very idealistic basis life in general collapses and people voting for freedom find themselves in slavery. that's tragic and it ultimately collapses to a ruler as joseph stalin or putin. as a rule with the great human trade starts like that but that's not how it ends. marxism is not capable because it fails so often that's why controlling the mind of man who is so important to stalin and
now in china and putin in russia that's why china is picking up 11 different actresses that have disappeared in china. m that's why there is a massive disappearance made by the dozens seems to be on the right political line. >> why would stalin want to kill a ballerina who seems harmless but she traveled over 400,000 miles in the days before air travel and represented everything stalin couldn't stand. it was an independent free thought and continue the doctrine of cultural hegemony as mentioned earlier to control men you have to control your mind and thoughts, music and everything and she was a direct threat to them. >> they sent her mother from russia to try to get her to come back but she wouldn't. they sent an invitation to come
back. they declared 1927 an enemy of the soviet people and that didn't seem to faze her very much. 1929 they seized the trust she had to set up for her kids and ballerinas in moscow and gave it toso the army and now she was an enemy of the soviet people. stalin sent a woman who was likely his mistress around europe to contact the norwegians and other governments to try to stop them from allowing herhe to dance so he went to great efforts. 1930 her friends tried to a get her to come to hollywood. she had many offers to make movies and hollywood. they were afraid for her and she was afraid for herself and felt instead she scheduled a tour go to theoing to borders of the soviet union in the south to poland.
the very next night because the company promised her that w they would they went forward with the whole show with the light shining on the spots she would have been because there was no understudy t because she was the greatest dancer in thebe world. >> i believe there's 37 biographies written about her and no one accused stalin of forcing her even though she said i was poisoned by the food i ate in paris and uganda circumstantial evidence it's remarkable. >> it was concealed until the 1990s. >> another 60 years before it was disclosed. >> oneta more question before we start asking for questions from the audience and if i may when
we goth to questions because c-span is here, please wait to ask your questions until the microphone gets to you and also end with a question. if i can one of the things that struck me when we were talking ahead of time as you have a finished book there's all these crazy things that happen in the world that would seem to suggest. regarding the current pandemic. >> we said we've got to add this into w the book we know it's the same link that was encountered over and over again. we took the book to publishers and they said we love your book and wewe will pay money but you
can't talk about china in the covid-19 in the book. >> or putin. >> then some of our manuscripts data sources are fairly secret but so tell them what happened then. >> i mentioned earlier i'm an artist and i have a separate website and noticed we had a 650 endnotes so i was doing lots of research but noticed in the course thatt my website was getting hits from china and i thought that'sno disturbing. it's nothing to do with the book and i don't have any clients so i didn't think anything of it and a few weeks later i began to work on a manuscript in the morning and i was the only one that had access to it. john didn't even. i mentioned theat manuscript had been opened at 4 a.m. >> at this point we contacted the fbi and they said get a good
forensics experts so we did. while he was studying it and after making a copy tell them what happened. >> in a similar manner i opened the manuscript to i open work on it and i would save them by the data because we would make changes and want to a add what e deleted and whatnot and they were all gone, all deleted. if i hadn't saved it on a flash drive wert would have lost at least a year's worthth of work o that's why we contacted the fbi and we already had my hard drive and wi-fi and everything with computer experts and he ran a thousand tests i didn't even knowot were possible. they were able to discover the breach happened in the apple i cloud. who here doesn't save their data. >> it's coming from there down into sarah's computer so we were
abled to determine the breach happened there. most likely it happened from china. >> and there is no way to prove who got into the icloud but there's only one country in the world with the capability of doing that so i guess we have a very strong gas. >> i wasn't going to put my name on the book. i love working with john but this matter was frightening so i thought i'm going to help you but i'm going to stay anonymous and once mysc computer was hackd into the manuscripts were deleted i thought they know who i am now i might as well put my name on the book., >> talk about the specific issue obviously there's been a lot of controversy about gain of function research. where has that been done in the u.s. or the fact that you have this very advanced level for lab
just coincidentally where the outbreak starts. talk to the skeptics. why do you think there's a visit in the pandemic with people dying why do you think that this is where it came from? >> the newly discovered physical evidence let's start off with the obvious. we've known there was a huge military lab. understand what happens. for the very first time and only time outside of the military lab
doesn't exist and has never been located anywhere in nature or anywhere else. it's similar but not identical, 96.2% of it is the same as the horseshoe bat from the himalayas f and about 80% of it has never been found anywhere in nature. the bat was brought in 2015 they publishedd articles saying we ae really proud of having this and. they brought the bad and were experimenting. the next piece of evidence is tithey were doing the gain of function research meaning they werere taking viruses and changg them and sarah is going to talk to this in a second. the next thing that happens is
2018 and now developed it was an application by the lab with the u.s. government to place the hook, the 3.8% almost exactly in a bad virus. the year before this all came out. that's anje article by doctor jeffrey sachs that's come out in the journal of the american academy of science. >> it's 2019 the doctor discovers it, he puts it on the internet and says there's a new virus here and see what they did they put him in jail for disclosing state secrets, they released him and hehe says he dd of the virus. all theie other guys mostly die, all the samples are destroyed and the early forensic samples
are destroyed by the chinese military weapons command. these are all general such and such and so on and they suck down the city and to destroy the destroy the evidence of what actually happened. >> the world health organization doesn't begin the searchti for n entire year afterwards. everything's been destroyed as john mentioned the people in charge are all appointed by the chinese communist party. >> jon stewart said if there is chocolate on the foot of the hershey factory in hershey pennsylvania it's crazy to think that it's emigrating from brazil. understand these are from 1100 miles away in the normal
range and none of the bats have been located within 500 miles of china accepted that lab. a search has gone on for the virus but doesn't exist anywhere. it can't be found anywhere so it's a creative virus that linked out. it came out in june of this year and called for the independent investigation of american institutions and the universities that could have evidence leading to the origin of covid.he interestingly, he was able to show that to the spike protein that you hear about on this site that is 12 bars long exactly withyo that precision you don't
find but also interestingly it hasng a string identical to thoe found. going back to 2018, three organizations, the institute that we heard a lot about and the health alliance applied for a grant from the department of defense to insert a site identical to what is found in covid-19 that was exactly a year before they were rejected because that is illegal in the united states and one year later it shows up. we also know those three organizations had worked togetherre in 2014 to increase e transmissibility of the virus and then invented in 2016 a virus using a spike protein that had been isolated.
>> some of this is new information before the book was published that has a tendency to come out over a periodod of tim. i think another very important thing for you to understand is until the tool was created it should edit viruses for the first time in human history at least in the west. the soviets were dealing with plague, anthrax and viruses that exist in nature and how you weaponize those and there was an island called it's the first instance of this ever happening.
>> we hear a lot about the risk and that's very frightening most of the world doesn't understand the threat of the biochemical war. i believeve even in the debate n 2014, putin was criticized because his army was in disarray. it's a frightening subject and one reason we wrote the book is to honor those that he killed but also to make the public aware of what is happening. at the plague or with various types of diseases when the animals died off they put more animals on the island. this was all in the book.
it was an unheard-of disease for millions of years and we then told the story in 1939 in the soviet union,e stalin had the head of the bio weapons project in berlinsa and from an emergeny meeting in moscow and began coughing at the hotel. he said you've got a pneumonic plague. there is no cure for it. the hotel got shut down. it's a plumbing failure. taking one from the internet
audience first and then we will go toom questions. for someone watching online asks where can people whoo are interested in f the story find more information? the greatest is the story by her husband. he loved her deeply and when you read the biography it's very, very sad. there is a great one who wrote only one book about anna and notes the greatest sources of other information. you can also look online if you put in pavlova the dying swan swanyou will see the actual film
that john and mary did of anna pavlova when they were trying to convince her not to go to russia to make a movie in 1929. we did a book launch and the national science when the book came out a couple months ago and found a video with ballerinas all over the world dancing to diane swan for covid relief. now is your chance to shine so please raise yourr hand and someone will bring you a microphone. with these individual events happening and then when the information is coming to surface in the sources that you are
finding is interesting. have you all found or seen any correlation between how long it takes between that to happen? is it coming to surface quicker nowadays and if not, do you have any ideas on how we can be more proactive in finding out the truth more quickly? inar russia and paris it took 60 years before the documents came out they shot all the people who were actually involved in shooting them and no one really knew what happened until the testing came about.
it's very hopeful. they were able to identify these guys by video cameras in england and then just a regular blogger was able to take that image and find out who they were. the response when confronted was to say there is no such. theysh were only on vacation but there's should be such a unit like that. that was hispo actual response. it's not an easy question. you can have somebody coughing and that's what you know about
it. of the e recent events for instance the article coming out last mont' i think we are seeing more and more in the news of evidence of it being correct early on mentioned the theory and was raked across the coals for it and doctor francis collins the head of nih said what can they do to squash this and he said i wouldn't do anything about it. you will start to see more and more people who no longer labeled it a conspiracy theory but when you add up all of the circumstantial evidence we had fun writing the last chapter of the book but as lawyers we wrote it like a closing argument and there is an abundant amount of
evidence. stalin killed 4 million, somewhere between four and 8 million people in ukraine and called it the great famine. and a reporter for "the new york times" won the pulitzer prize for reporting there was no famine in ukraine. it takes a while to come out and there was a famine. four to 8 million people died.
all the pulitzer prize is in the world don't eliminate the truth of whatre actually occurred. they have a commitment to truth itself. >> more and more people are defecting a lot of the evidence comes from defectors who one woman actually worked inin a la. you mentioned jeffrey sachs' article and as i recall, he had this letter or call to american institutions about what they may have done. what's interesting is the chinese communist party -controlled peepers in china.
yvette just came out last week. i remember seeing headlines that said no new evidence was created ina a lab. it was at the university of north carolina. there is no evidence that it was created in the lab. >> the obama administration outlawed gene enhancement in 2015. it was very frustrating. they thought you ought to be able to enhance the infection of the viruses in the laboratories. they show up and propose that
the department of defense fund the creation of thisen enhancemt of the bad virus and they say no we are not doing it. it was shared with the chinese and used by the chinese not for these purposes but the creation of bio weapons and china. >> it all centers around this site. we have a question here down front.
>> i wondered if you've done any research on whether monkeypox was manufactured or if it's a bioic weapon or if you have suspicions what are your thoughts? it's only gonna way of the newspapers there are 120,000 people every single day coming down for the first time with coronavirus right now. in other words somewhere around 10,000 peoplea a month are dyig from coronavirus. as any other single cause it looks like it's going to be a deal that's been with us a long time because it's continuing.
it was leaked in china -- >> a mass cover-up. there's been a massive cover-up of what's happened. we can't let it two thirds of american pharmaceuticals be manufactured as they are right now. if china has 12 or 15 major bio weapons facilities they don't go out of the bio weapons business. they are out of the u.s. pharmaceutical business so there's all kinds of steps we can take once we realize the truth. >> sometimes thatt is confusing when we give talks about the institute and there is an adjacent level of the biosafety labr the who was never allowed o investigate that and much more
dangerous than covid-19 because we are not allowed any access to them. >> do we have any idea the level of personnel compared to the so-called civilian lab? >> i don't. >> 1972, china a major opponent of the bio weapons signed a treaty together with russia that outlawed all these activities so all these activities are a total violation of the international law and treaty obligations under the 1972 treaty. a total violation of it. another frightening thing the only reason that they would do that is if they themselves were preparing to initiate some type
of biochemical attack. >> i can assure you those biological suits are very uncomfortable and i can also assure you the russian version is even morean uncomfortable because the one we use is with a lining that allows for some reason and is disposable for a certain period of time you throw it away and burn it. it's made to last longer but it's terribly difficult to work in. >> we found pictures of it in the publication today. >> that makes sense. >> i think we have time for one more question from the audience. if we have one from the audience otherwise we do have more questions online. >> how was this technology
developed in the united states ever made available to china? >> the theory was there was a tremendous almost lobby in favor of gene enhancement in the united states. it wasn't bad thinking it was about a thinking but for good reason. the theory was if we can enhance gene viruses we can edit them to make them more communicable in the lab. also we can use the gene enhancement to see what viruses are going to mutate into and instead of a surprise we would be prepared. between 2000 and 2012 and 2015 in the united states.
at theth conclusion was it's a band in the united states. no gene enhancement in the united states. it's dangerous and so on and it looks likeke what happened is people took the same technology in the same idea and decided we will try to do it at the u.s. expense except it never got funded by the u.s. >> we know the organizations worked togetherr as there is a man of the university of north carolina he was educated in the coronavirus and gene enhancement. we know as i mentioned earlier in 2016 those alliances and the institute actually created using the spike of the virus that was isolated. if there's new evidence to be clear that the university ever violated the law in the united
states. like so much it migrated. >> the book is the dancer in the devil stalin, pavlova into the road to the great pandemic. authors will be available outside in the lobby to provide copies of the book that have been personally signed and they will be selling some of their books out in the lobby. to you with us and those watching on the live stream as s well as the c-span audience, thank you for joining us today for the book talk at the public policy foundation. please have a great afternoon. [applause]
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