tv Hearing on Expanding U.S. Energy Production CSPAN February 7, 2023 6:27am-9:04am EST
2000 -- the tulsa black wall street. the from pump storage, we really need to look at the investments we could've built 2000 black and make sure we are maximizing wall streets. for the equivalent of that the clean power that we are environmental justice money. getting from our dams around in other words, we wouldn't be the country. >> i just would add, this having a conversation about poverty right now. because all of our black pumped hydro storage, i was out communities would be thriving. in mr. curtis's district in but instead, we're gonna get a few retrofits, a few windows utah, meeting with the company there that is interested in and nothing is going to change pumped hydro storage, and how about the economics. >> thank you for that. that could be helping with base i yield back, mister chairman. thank you. >> i apologize to members the load and with peak and how we manage that. so my time is limited, but i witnesses. both even called on the floor. we're going to -- ten minutes after the close of will just say it's important that this committee does not the second -- there's two votes. overlook the potential of our this is gonna take care of business and will be back ten nations hydro power resources minutes after the close of the to deliver abundant, reliable, second vote. and the committee stands in recess. clean energy. it exists, we have 90,000 dams, some of them can be retrofitted with turbines. so i remain committed to pursuing holistic and comprehensive policies to bolster our hydro power generating capacity, and to
ensure our energies -- nations energy independence, and i hope that will be on a bipartisan basis with our committee. i stand ready and willing to work with each of my colleagues here today to make good on these promises for the american people. and mister chairman, and yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. thank you. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from florida, dr. dunn, for five minutes. >> thank you, mister chair. i saw an interesting fact -- the cia projects a 50% increase in rural energy use by 2050. the u.s. should be the global the -- >> the subcommittee will come leader in innovative back to order. technologies to maximize and the order of things, doctor efficient energy production, should be at the forefront of ruiz is next, from california, filling that demand. our entrepreneurial spirit five minutes. >> thank, you mister chairman. drives innovation, but overly i want to focus today on the prescriptive policies from the question of reliability has biden white house are drowning emergency medicine physician, i american innovators with know how important reliably burdensome regulation. electricity is for powering this puts our economy and our medical equipment and national security risk -- preventing lifesaving medicine
from spoiling, and one of the as mr. mentally pointed out a best ways -- couple of minutes ago. this is why i will be focusing on combatting the move towards a carbon free administration's radical energy energy system. it's to increase the battery policies that destroy american leadership in the energy space. i look forward to working with storage capacity on our nations my colleagues on policies that grids. lithium batteries are critical will unleash american components of electrical innovation, return america to vehicles, but they are also an the forefront of energy obvious solution to clean air production, and unlock resources for future clean -- while also providing the grid generations. i have to pause for a moment reliability that we need. in fact, batteries are already and say, miss jackson, is great to see you again. i think we've talked a lot, being used to increase just recently, i hope to see reliability on the power grid. you in tallahassee before too in my district, california's long, or your team, at least. 25th district, the crimson but the first question is for energy storage in blaine is the mr. mcnally. i'm want to give you this question, and mr. dabbar, i'd second largest energy storage like you to answer after him. project in the world. american innovation has driven constructed by union labor, first and foremost by ideas, including the international those animated by deities must brotherhood of electrical then be supported by efficient workers, and i believe also the allocation of capital teamsters powering the vital investment. this administration's policies medical equipment, electric vehicles, and so much more. and the private sector -- our country needs more stymieing rational capital
batteries and battery storage investments in the energy projects like this. batteries need lithium. sector, specifically oil and and lithium is found at the gas, but also in renewables. and in the nuclear field. sulk and see, in the imperial capital allocators director valley in california. in my district, the salted sea investments to renewable technology because they are has a massive supply of raw supported by a favorable government subsidy. materials that could power mr. ali, do you feel that the clean energy futures. the sultan sea has the fifth current administration's largest deposit of lithium in policies in esg investment are the world, and it has the potential to supply the lithium obstacles to american needed not only for electric innovation and development in vehicles, but also the energy? >> i do. batteries that can make our i think the initiation is electric grids resilient. lithium valley, as we like to signaling that it doesn't want call it back home, is the key to unlocking a clean energy future, cement the u.s.'s to see capital flow into oil leadership, strengthen our and gas production. at a time, as i mentioned battery supply chain, and protect our national security. earlier, when we are in the foothills of what i believe will be a multi year boom cycle dr. unruh cohen, you mentioned when we will not every drop we that china has a start on that can. they are doing that based on of the world and clean energy. the idea that we need to forced i'm sure you know that the head start, it includes both those disclosure, or raise the cause of capital, based on carbon and chemical supply of lithium and climate change and so forth. the manufacturing of lithium as i stated in some of the batteries. in fact, according to the world papers i will be submitting
economic forum, the united states is eight in a lithium with my testimony, we need a sound and serious climate production in the world, and policy, starting with the china has 60% of the lithium politicized science, crossed refining capacity in the world. can you talk about the effects benefit analyses, legislation, not regulatory rules and that the u.s. lagging in courts. producing lithium supplies and but we should do that first, manufacturing batteries? >> thank you for the question, and then, -- where to deploy, maybe we doctor ruiz. consider it down the road. and let me underscore the >> you cautioned on that earlier, careful on how -- reliability, the importance of ready, shoot, aim. reliability, and say that wind and solar availability is predictable, and so when you couple that with battery resources, we start to have a mr. dabbar? >> i always had a view that the full spectrum, 24/7, best place for federal investment is in discovery, and opportunity to provide new innovation. it's too far away from cash electricity to the grid from flow for the venture capital renewables. to do that, you are right, you community, and the corporate community, to invest. need more lithium, and i know the private sector, luckily, in there's projects in salt and this country, is still vastly larger than the federal sea and around the world, government, and the amount of capital is widely available for getting their permits, moving forward, getting investments, things that can be applied, and and you know, the investments
the better use for federal money is where the private we see in the infrastructure act and the inflation reduction sector doesn't see anything act are going to drive that quite yet to invest in, and further. therefore, discovery science and innovation and new things, the additional good news when it comes to the grid is we that's more efficient for the federal spending. actually can take, when neb is >> on that subject, mr. dabbar, used their batteries, and they i want to spend the rest of are no longer great for that, this time opining on what we you can put them in ways to use can do to make america a global in the grid. so there's a lot -- leader in the nuclear energy >> in terms of china, us technology field. and this is a pointed question, because we have a large importing the majority of gathering of the nuclear batteries, et cetera, lithium, industry this evening. from other countries. we all know too well that is take it away. >> i think that the development dangerous for our nation, if it is dependent on foreign supply chains, because in a foreign country, -- reactor program that was passed favorites on domestic companies, here a few years ago has really triggered a lot. for whatever geopolitical there's a lot of excitement reasons, or clean energy within the industry right now. revolution is stopping in its and i think that is moving tracks. that means we need strong, along very well. domestic supply chains that so i think congress should be start in communities like the imperial valley, making sure -- has done a lot with that. that companies don't simply come in, extract community >> is there more we should the? resources, and turn it into batteries elsewhere. >> i think trying to -- that means those jobs are
the u.s. system, trying to filled by local workers, and maybe a first customer of some those benefits come home to our communities. of that power, and once again, all of this is more important i said a little bit earlier, than ever to ensure that the maybe tva or wapa or bonaville benefits of this lithium goes back to this salton sea, which could become a worse environmental disaster, with can look at being a first customer for some of this plan. reduced water flowing from the >> we talked about this. colorado river and the exposed ply a, putting find particular -- dust in the air. i like these ideas. thank you all, all panelist, for coming. mister chair, i yield back. they can affect people's lungs >> the gentleman yields back. -- the inflation reduction act can the chair now recognizes the help us build a strong supply gentleman -- chain for our clean energy future here at home. in what ways you expect recent gentleman thank you to our witnesses. past legislature -- i have been proud to support domestic manufacturing of batteries in the u.s.? >> i think we are already seeing the results of that. of that 90 billion dollars in the bipartisan infrastructure law which made historic investments in clean energy investment that i mentioned in future. my testimony, a lot of that is electric vehicles. i think we just had one today they help to diversify that maybe i didn't get to incorporate. so almost every day, there is a new announcement. renewable energy sources which
>> the gentleman's time is is key to building a resilient clean energy system. expired. i recognize myself for five minutes. i want to thank the panelists before i start with my for being here, it's been very questions i would like to note informative. i approach energy in two broad i was pleased to see in the categories. testimony of ms. transportation fuels, which is jackson, in her testimony, a fossil fuels and electricity, for evs, and base load power positive reputation about generation. and base load power generation, you have nuclear power, which can be ramped up and ramped former subcommittee by --'s down very quickly or easily, so it remains constant. work on increasing diversity in and then you have renewables as part of the energy matrix as -- energy industry, this is important to me and while i was renewables come online when the disappointed we could not find sum comes over the wind is bipartisan support and blowing. it could be a climactic event agreement in the last congress, i would love to see a that makes solar go of line or they can see it starting to decline, or it might be the sun compromise and i am hopeful in setting. the 118th congress we will so when that happens, they've got to fill the gap to make focus on workforce and jobs. as former secretary of labor in sure that the base load power is constant for our consumers. that's our constituents's homes, delaware, this issue is an municipalities, manufacturing. so what works in that gap important one and during this congress i will continue to filling area is coal, hydro if work on that issue starting on it's available, and natural
creating programs within the gas. and we've got to make sure the department of energy to meet natural gas is a big part of that. the workforce needs of the what i hear from a lot of my energy sector and further train utilities is that we have a pipeline issue in this country, that our pipelines are about at and get more people in the capacity for the amount that's underrepresented communities drawn off of it, and if we into the energy workforce. don't meet that future demand, the gas is not going to be it will lower the cost for available. so i wish the infrastructure those individuals in bill would have include more communities that are gas pipeline permitting and underrepresented in communities projects, but unfortunately, it of color and increase opportunity, jobs that are good didn't. it focused a lot on evs and paying jobs. charging stations and all that. look, as mr. dabbar said, -- i also want to address my i will be part of the matrix, it's groovy. questions mainly to you, ana unruh cohen, we've heard a lot but i know what works to provide that bissell power that the manufacturers need, always today about energy production on, always ready, always but i want to emphasize the available. importance of energy efficiency, back to the 24/7 three 65 base load power. and right at christmas eve and lowering costs, global energy demand is only going to grow -- we just had about a texas event and we need to focus on because some of those situations where, when insular initiatives that optimize wasn't possible, coal, they energy. can you discuss the importance of energy efficiency when we take three days to crank up to thermal capacity to meet energy think of things like national
needs, natural gas is 30 minutes. security, our economy, and so it's got to be a big part of public health? talk to us about the benefits? that. pipelines is the new word from the graduate, it was plastics in the movie the graduate, its >> thank you for that question. pipelines today. the most important piece of i want to focus on nuclear. energy is that which we don't nuclear energy must be part of the energy matrix. moving forward -- use, energy efficiency is as unfortunately, other countries big as energy resource, if you are outpacing us. look at our history since the 1970s. adversaries like russia and china have continued to invest in their nuclear industries. in the past four years, china has brought in 21 reactors online, many of them are advanced reactor designs, 31 plans are under construction. and energy efficiency is this country, we have to focus crucial for taking the edge off of those bills, for making sure on things that could be walk households are not making those away safe. unfortunately, -- hard decisions about paying their medical bills versus in large part due to regulatory their energy bills, reduces the and licensing structures that use of energy all over so where disincentivizes private sector we have solution concerns investment. that's going to lower that and i've got a piece of legislation we filed in the last congress, we hope to reintroduce, if we haven't already, then expedite the less energy we use, the the permitting process to build power plants. less dependent we have been on if you've gotta prove the designs, build. international providers. it -- do the geology, make sure
there's no things there with earth and earthquakes and other >> i'm transitioning to clean things that can be cited there, a water source for cooling, but energy, not only necessary to protect human health and the replicate that in and expedited environment but also an enormous opportunity to create permitting process. as we continue to look at a similar's and other advanced a more equitable economy, and nuclear reactors -- i was glad to see an article this week that the first mri was actually permitted -- and renew federal investments, start producing energy, as a from the bipartisan policy test case, and once we see that it works, heck, it's worked in the united states navy for what, 50, 60, 70 years? it works! modular reactors work. so those are some of the things center, and can you discuss cal clean energy investment from that i believe in. the bipartisan infrastructure law and the inflation reduction act will help build a more equitable economy? -- we need to incentivize -- what are some of the high-level suggestions to modernize nuclear regulation in this >> yes, in both of those bills country to invite innovation and through the biden and growth, to -- encourage growth and lead this administration's initiatives, there is a huge focus on making global nuclear energy? >> as you pointed out, sure communities that are building out the clean energy, congressman, the nuclear regulatory commission is very
conservative. those jobs are filling in their. as you know, you interview and we talked about the regulators all the time. weatherization program and one of the benefits is not just to the people living in the house overtime, they get more conservative, because they don't want anything overturn in the courts. and as a result, it's drug out being more comfortable but the crime endlessly as a result of job training and getting that. skills, skilled training for -- let's review, it ten times the workers, i mentioned my mom, i sunday. so i think any sort of benefited from that and she loved talking to the young men who were there doing the work legislation that might allow them to facilitate that, to and learning the skills they were building up for the jobs. make it -- to get them focused, i think that's important. that's where we have ended up. >> i want to add this is an area where i've seen young the other thing we should do is take away some of the federal power entertains like bonaville people, people of color, and so on and take a look at different communities come together and recognize we have them, willing the contract as a a lot opportunity here, i hope first customer for some of we take up this opportunity, i these new reactors. so i think any authorization yield back. for a d.o.e. or tva or others >> gentle lady yields back, the chair recognizes the gentleman to be a first customer of -- from utah, mr. curtis, for 5 minutes. that will provide a big jolt >> thank you, do like to be for the industry. >> that's spot on. this committee will have an rcm
to talk about those things, asking the same questions. we will also look at closing the fuel cycle and recycling spent fuel, in commercial here, to prepare, and i reactors, because there is a uranium concern and a fuel couldn't help thinking if an alien was listening to us today concern. my time is expired, so i will they might conclude that those now go to -- on my levitated fossil fuels and would stop at nothing to >> congressman, five seconds. stomp them out, likewise they savannah river national lab might so advise those of us on the right want to go crazy with proposed to me a recycling plant when i was under fossil fuels and do nothing secretary, and i think you else. should be talking to them about to any alien friends listening i have some good news and bad their idea because it's exactly news. what you just said. >> we are, and there's great -- first the good news. others across the country that despite the dialogue, there are can play a part of that. mr. peters from california, you many areas of agreement between those of us on the right and are recognized for five. the left. >> thank you, mister chairman. our path to true energy representative peters has security is not to double down on oil and gas. the oil embargo in the 70s, the pointed out the need to deal with permitting reform. representative reese pointed gulf war in the 90s, hurricane katrina in 2005, 2008 financial out the rich natural resources crisis, covid, putin's war on that we desperately need. ukraine, all contributed to a representative duncan has rollercoaster of harmful oil addressed nuclear. many of us agree nuclear is part of our future and we can price volatility under republican and democratic have a reliable, affordable,
presidential leadership. despite the pain of these price clean future, like hydrogen fluctuations, republicans continue to propose the same false solution, more oil and fusion, better battery storage. we agree wind and solar are gas. that will only lead to more price uncertainty and pain, as we have seen at the gas pump important, we don't want to recently, and has san diegans are seeing on their natural gas bills today. the solution, long term, is lose to china, and energy clean, innovative energy efficiency is important, i technologies which are becoming don't know anybody that would cheaper than fossil fuels, and listen to you and disagree that can produce energy domestically, we would take into account those least able to afford without reliance on foreign this. adversaries. it's not radical, it's smart. even texas takes 40% of its rather than ask you to nod your power from non carbon sources. heads an agreement that we are it's not because texas is on the same page, this was -- against oil and gas. now the bad news. it's because it's the sensible thing to do. i'm proud that we provided significant funding in the we spend too much time in areas where we disagree. 117th congress to build this for those of us on the right, more clean and secure energy we feel there is too much future, but i want to talk about the 118th congress, misrepresentation of our position. i have no doubt my friends on the left would feel the same something we haven't talked about much today, is speed. way. we can have all the money in the world, but we will still i don't speak for either group but let me say this. fail if we don't act faster. i don't know anyone in my look at high voltage electric
circle, i represent oil and gas transmission lines. according to research from and coal, a group of 80 princeton, 80% of the projected emissions reductions from the republicans the talk about inflation reduction act depend climate, don't know anyone in my circle who doesn't want to on building transmission faster. berkeley lab founded -- lead a clean earth better than we found it. in the pipeline to power nearly it is okay to leave something 85% of our economy, but 80% of for our grandchildren, not as good as we found. those projects could be i don't know anyone who thinks canceled due to insufficient more pollution is better than less pollution. transmission. according to jesse jenkins at at the same time those i hang princeton, the current power around with think it is wrong grid took 150 years to build. to demonize fossil fuels and to get to net zero emissions by 2050, we would have to triple those that produce them. its size in the next 30 years. as far as i know all of us in that means 200,000 miles of new this room are highly dependent on fossil fuels. transmission lines by the i don't know energy expert 2030's, 200,000. anywhere, right or left to over the last decade, we build won't tell you that we will be just 1800 miles per year. because each one takes more using fossil fuels in the year 2050. than ten years to complete, and i think this is the problem, we seven of those ten years, seven of those ten years, are just often mistake fossil fuels with for playing a permit. emissions. other countries are doing it we need to be clear, do we hit just fine, according to an fossil fuels? or do we hate emissions? american -- north america has built just
seven gigawatts of into i challenge my friends on the regional transmission, less than half of that is the u.s., left to substitute their anger so say we are about three or four. south america is 22, europe's with fossil fuels with that of emissions and i ask this 44, china's 260. in the 1970s, iron byron mental question, if fossil fuels can compete with other energy priority was to stop, dirty sources in cleanliness, why do destructive products. we insist that they die? -- was designed to require public why do we demonize the very input to ensure federal people who have produced these for decades and decades? why can't they be viewed as agencies assess the -- before they made decisions. part of the solution and not we have needed to think for a the problem. on my side we see hypocrisy great deal in environment like posing an electric hammer preservation, but its and bragging about it, the implementation is slow, with documents several thousand reality is a gas chevy malibu pages long, that refused to take -- nepa is also the most litigated produces as much greenhouse gas emissions as an electric chevy environmental statute, with hummer. we see hypocrisy of shutting down federal lands. lawsuits dragging on for more than a decade, and the simple threat of litigation can my district, 7 of my counties prevent new -- are 90% federally owned and get we must build to be in our the president goes to other countries, in many cases our climate goals. climate action is about enemies and asked them to produce more. building things, not stopping things. to save the planet, we must
build transmissions, utility to my colleagues who don't understand the approach let me scales, solar power, hydrogen be clear, we believe we have pipelines, passenger rail, -- been falsely told we must sacrifice affordability, bike lanes, tons of infill reliability, and national housing, and ironically, many security so that we can be of the laws intended 50 years ago to protect environment cleaned. i believe we can have it all. could undermine our climate i believe we can be energy action. some claim that nepa wasn't the independent. i believe we can be reliable, affordable, and clean. problem or that it can be touched. someone who has practiced law in this field says i can't if we can get together and believe we can sustain project talk, i believe my colleagues on the left being leave the by project -- same thing. in the 30 seconds i have left, still achieve climate action i don't know if you want to with the time and money we weigh in on that. have. the successive process -- affect a punitive tax, a clean miss cohen, would you like to take my last 20 seconds. energy, and fixing laws? just to serve the public good? >> i will just add in the that's our job. we can achieve high environmental standards with select committee across the less time. aisle, we would often agree on nipple was signed into law in 1970. 165 of our congressional the challenges the country face colleagues were not yet born. we are as far in time -- and sometimes we agreed as you set on the opportunities to solve those and other times we this is an old law, folks. have disagreements and i encourage this committee to as
we are charged to updated for you said focus on the things -- our times, and that's okay, >> regrettably i am out of time. because it didn't come from noises on tablets. i would love to have you all share your thoughts but i yield my time. >> the gentleman yields back, moses -- they had electric typewriters. the selective process -- those of us committed to the chair recognizes mister vic are from the state of texas for climate action say it's the 5 minute. >> so glad we are holding this greatest threat we face, there important hearing today particularly on energy security. called on to rethink -- clean energy projects. i think energy security, our to unlock a future that doesn't environment, the air we breathe depend on greenhouse gas energy, we have to update our -- is something we can never talk to make it easier, not harder, enough about. one of the things that has been to build. i encourage all of you to worrying me lately is china. engage in a -- with the communities of we know that china has been interest to talk about real under strict covid lockdown, bipartisan process to enact -- probably going to, quote, reopen here sometime soon and i deliver energy security and environmental production -- was hoping maybe mr. protection from the american people. i look fortunate looking at mcnally could tell me what he that with all of, you and i yield back. >> thank you for yielding back. thinks china reopening is going the china recognizes mr. palmer to do as far as prices are from the great state of alabama for five minutes. concerned, the upward surge in >> thank, you mister chairman. prices that might pose on the i want to start off with american public.
>> thank you for the question. that is my bread-and-butter. talking about how this green new deal policy -- oil prices or pump prices have been in a tug-of-war between there's about two billion the russian disruption risk people around the world to have little to no access to reliable which makes them go up, and energy. this macroeconomic weakness it reminds me of a quote from risk which makes them go down, thomas hobbes, when he china was on the macro weakness described life at that time as side until the end of last year because as you noted, they were solitary, brutish, nasty, and in severe lockdown, their demand was suppressed and importantly china is a big exporter of refined products short. this is what access to reliable like diesel and gasoline, that energy means. helps gasoline prices get to $5 a barrel, however, do your the rule bank -- energy consumption has doubled. question as we come into this it was half what it is today. year, president xi decide covid to run rampant and burned in 1980. through so by the second quarter we had most analysts and extreme poverty was four times higher than that it is think china will be recovering to its pre-covid demand level, today. life expectancy, because of close to 16 million barrels a day can with a big chunk that has to come back is jet fuel. china's expansion of their energy grid, and obviously, it's mostly coal fired power that would put upward pressure on prices. plants, their life expectancy you seen prices rise, now we has increased by ten years.
this is not just -- have to see what happens with russia like the boy who cried i mean, i worked for two wolf, didn't see disruption last summer but we might going international engineering forward. communities, you will hear me repeat that several times, i china's return switched sides have a good idea of what it and the tug-of-war from being takes to generate power, i worked in aerospace, different downward priced factor to being projects, and i will just be honest with you. and it's not just my opinion, an upward priced factor. >> some reports say 101 million barrels a day which would be a there was a report from the electric power research record for the world. institute, that basically says so one of the things i have heard a lot from my friends on the other side is we need to that -- unleash all of this energy that they are not sufficient themselves to achieve net zero we have and i am proud to say economy wide emissions. we do a pretty good job in other words, no amount of winter minds, solar panels, hydro power, nuclear power, battery power, electrification, unleashing, not only have we revolutionized things in the and possibly technologies, any fracking area but we have been of that, is going to get a one of the world leaders when stern and zero by 2050. it comes to renewable energy, that's a wall street journal article describing the policy, 25% or so is renewable energy. we are doing it right there. what i hear about unleashing that research paper. miss jackson, we've had this
discussion -- american energy and energy i grew up dirt poor, my dad had an eighth grade education, he independence, one area that continues to really hurt the u.s. built the house i grew up in, congress, we haven't been able to find any compromise, is the he only finish what he could pay for, unlike the federal issue of immigration. government, he didn't spend if you talk to people in the more than he had, and he heeded the house with a cold heater in permian basin, people who run the oil and gas companies a lot the kitchen. of people don't realize the in the wintertime, we slept under about a foot of blankets, that my mom and grandma and permits ranchers use, great and quilted. what does it mean to people when they see their power bills agriculture, hospitality, those same immigration permits are not the ones that are needed for people to have temporary go through the roof and they have to make decisions on how work visas and the oil and gas sector. much food they can afford to buy and still be able to heat or cool their home? when you talk to people in the >> one of the things that we oil and gas field, people who always have to pay for, because i hear a lot of people talk say we need more swabing units, about climate change policies, more rigs, guess what, you are but i've never heard anyone talk about actually how many not unleashing a thing unless degrees is going to save. the climate change -- you do something about immigration reform and so when the climate change policies are more harmful than the -- you hear people talk about being able to unleash, you what we are trying to save and we shouldn't be enacted. can't unleash anything if the one of the things we advocate dogs don't have a handler.
for is that you do an economic so please tell me how we are impact study on the lives of the people that it's going to going to unleash all of this affect. the climate change policy, energy potential if the other right now, they're more harmful side is not willing to work for low income and minority with us on immigration reform families. and will continue to use this then the climate change -- then what the climate change is supposed to be doing? as sort of a wedge between the american people and offer no >> we are hurting people. sort of solution? >> we are hurting real people. i get calls every day from >> i will step around the people that don't have my political leaning -- landmine of immigration in the border and so forth and just concur that when i hear the same thing from my clients in black people, naacp people, your state and others, input costs are really high and part urban league people, saying of that is finding good people, they need help. they can't afford to pay these bills, and nobody is listening. we are scouring sri lanka all over the world to bring workers >> what gets me is we hear in, steel tariffs raised the price of steel so they are -- report after report, from europe, from the uk, about the real supply-side pressures your constituents are dealing with, number of people dying as a my clients are dealing with and result of excess winter deaths, congress out to look at how to because they can't heat their alleviate those but i will homes in the wintertime, and we see that here as well. steer clear of immigration if you don't mind.
people can't afford to heat -- >> before i go over my time, let me say we really want to it really impacts people, with unleash, we better do something respiratory disease, cardiovascular -- that sort of thing. and it's like, it's almost like about immigration reform. my colleagues across the aisle think this is collateral damage, saying unleash without immigration reform means and it's acceptable to achieve absolutely nothing. >> the chair now recognizes the what clearly, they are not gentlewoman from arizona for 5 going to achieve by 2050. minutes. so mr. mcnally, i want to ask >> thank you. you -- i want to pivot now. i'm really excited to be on the china is building coal fire plants all over the world. energy and commerce committee there's a report that came out and the energy subcommittee and last year, last fall, that they talking about energy because it built 14 coal power plants. is vital to every aspect of our lives. they are building i represent the phoenix, infrastructure around the world, developing -- arizona, arizona, area and its and we are going to make ourselves dependent on china suburbs. for our energy production? outside my district is a nuclear plant. does that make sense to you? >> congressman palmer, if it is the largest power producer in the nation for there's one area perhaps of almost the last 30 years. recently, last year, the bipartisan agreement, i think we're all clear eyed, or hopefully are, that china use energy and the transition and nuclear plant in arizona was awarded funds from the dominance of the power and the department of energy to transportation aspects of energy as a way to replace the increase its flex ability by united states as the worlds
preeminent power. it's a militarized superpower creating hydrogen, when selling to the grid isn't economical. strategy. we ought to see it as such. what more needs to happen to and build our own clean energy here. >> mister chairman, time went increase the deployment of energy technology like by quick. hydrogen? but my time is expired, so i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. the chair now recognizes the >> we awarded the money around gentlewoman from new hampshire, miss custer, for five minutes. increasing hydrogen production across the nuclear facilities. >> thank you, mister chairman. hydrogen is a storage vehicle. ranking member pallone, and our the comparison, you produce subcommittee leaders for holding this important hearing. electricity, in chemical form, i want to start by taking a -- or you can store it in gaseous kathy mcmorris rogers as the form in hydrogen or you can do it in liquid as i was talking first woman to chair this great about earlier. committee. what we may represent districts hydrogen has a great on opposite sides of the country, our constituents rely opportunity for additional storage. the other thing that is on similar energy resources, exciting about hydrogen is some including hydro power. and that's why i look forward to working with all of you, to industrial uses cannot really use electricity. unlock the full potential of so the likelihood of hydro power, to provide electrifying certain industries is quite poor around certain affordable, reliable, and clean energy to communities, from the things like steel and concrete. pacific northwest to the so if you can take that
electricity and put it into northeast. something that can produce a it's important today to remind yourself that democrats and republicans share many of the much higher heat rate, that same values when it comes to manufacturing will create an our nations energy resources. opportunity for those we believe that all americans industrials to electrify, electrify via converting it to should have access to low costs, hydrogen. >> exciting, that is the thing reliable energy. that does not depend on foreign i like about energy. a lot of new technology going resources or foreign technologies. while we may have a policy disagreements, if we focus on on, exciting, you solve a lot these shared goals, i believe of our energy needs in america. we can find enough common mr. ground to deliver on. last congress, we passed mcnally, in your written and historic legislation to invest verbal testimony recommended in our country's clean energy the establishment of a national commission on energy transition future, and put the u.s. back on track to lead the clean energy revolution. realism, and expert nonpartisan commission of renowned energy the infrastructure investment in jobs act, in included experts to advise government officials and evaluate policy approximately $800 million in options for energy transmission. i love it. i think it is common sense. investments in our nation's sounds like a great idea to me. dams, including to upgrade our electrical grid for hydro power united nations energy. in his testimony, mr. day barr intergovernmental panel on spoke about prioritizing base climate change in a report
load energy, and i agree. issued last year pointed out that collectively, the g 20 hydro power is the base load power that we need. with black star capability and members are not on track to the potential for additional meet their goals under the energy reserves through pumped paris climate agreement. hydro power storage, hydro it also states in the latest assessment that global warming power can provide additional at the end of the century is resilience to our energy grid. i wanted to ask you, dr. unruh estimated at 2.7 ° celsius. not even close to the paris cohen, can you speak to the ability of clean energy climate agreement of one. 5 degrees. resources and technologies, such as hydro power and hydro the biden administration is spending trillions of dollars power storage, to bolster the resiliency of our grid as we on solutions that are not transition to clean energy? working. >> thank you for the question, congresswoman. don't you think it is time the hydro power has been an incredibly important power source for the history of our country. it was the first power source administration has an honest conversation on spending for our industrial work, up in trillions of dollars on ideas that according to the un ipcc the new england and northeast. aren't working? and it continues to be critical. >> thank you. i certainly do. i think the important thing to i see a sound and serious consider for this committee,
especially looking at the climate policy as having a investments that we made in foundation like a house has a dams, over the past few congresses, is the water cycle foundation, quality of the foundation will determine whether the house is safe to is very sensitive to climactic build in and live in and so change, and so -- forth. the foundation out to be we are going to see challenges depoliticize. to hydro power. transmission of science to nonexperts like all of us, the unfortunately, our friends in the west are really seeing that concern with the ipcc reports, challenge now, with the colorado river level. the folks who are decoding the it impacted the northeast as well. complicated climate science and in order to continue to provide explaining it to all of us are that incredibly important clean government officials and they energy from hydro power and don't have the rigorous peer from pump storage, we really review and requirements to be need to look at the investments transparent like you do in actual climate science. and make sure we are maximizing i respectfully suggest your side of the aisle, make it clear, you embrace climate science, the problem is not climate science but how it is transmitted to the rest of us because it is pre-complicated in these ipcc reports. and let's have reforms to make
sure it is honest, peer-reviewed, good foundation upon which to debate sound policies to address the problem. >> fantastic. and 13 seconds i have left, thank you for being here once again and telling us, representing low income communities and minority communities and speaking up and i yield back. >> the gentlewoman yields back, the chair now recognizes mr. soto from florida. >> there are a few elements in the room worth mentioning. the washington post reports today oil companies post record smashing profits as gas prices creep up. record smashing profits. exxon mobil, 55. $7 billion in 2,022, a record. chevron, 36. $5 billion, 2,022.
another record. inflation, corporate greed, record profits, share buyback, something this committee needs to keep in mind as we navigate this. elephant number 2, climate change demands our attention. intensifying hurricanes, massive floods, long droughts, rising seas, extreme heat, extreme cold, the climate is changing and it takes more than just saying the word climate or delay delay delay delay to actually solve this. inflation reduction act is now law. this committee should join the president and the senate in shepherding fair implementation of this landmark law, pursuing, diversifying our energy production with clean, renewable energy. number 3, exporting oil abroad, there used to be a ban on that and now oil is being exported and americans are paying high prices at the pump, this isn't
an america first policy, this is the opposite. if you want to kickstart american energy dominance we should start by looking at the exports that just started a few years ago. what do you think we should do about record oil profits at the expense of the american people? >> it is almost ironic that when a few years ago when we were the energy dominant side on the oil markets and the gas markets, the oil and gas companies were making very low profits, and the biggest problem when that was going on, when we had so much production was the prices were dropped so much for the consumer and it's a funny dialogue so that when we've been supportive of pipelines and so on, oil and
gas companies make less money and consumers pay less money but when we put lots of restrictions on them and lots of turmoil, prices go up and emissions go up. emissions are because of cold winds coming online in germany. so it is a funny dynamic around those different issues. >> thanks, i appreciate describing the issue but it would be helpful for some solutions on it. a key role for this committee is implementing $369 billion to boost renewable energy, boost conservation. what are some of the things this committee can do to help with fair implementation? >> thank you for the question. we talk a lot about the importance of the grid in the infrastructure bill and the inflation reduction act as
important provisions to help improve the resilience of the grid and expand it. that's an area this committee can give some close attention to. in addition, there are a number of other -- we talked about nuclear power, in the infrastructure act and the inflation reduction act, provide ways to keep our current nuclear power, to support currently operating nuclear power plants that are safe to operate, taking a look at that would be important, that we keep that carbon free emission coming and as we talked about making sure the deployment of wind, solar, the electric vehicle infrastructure is happening. >> thank you so much. i, like many honestly agree it should be in all of the above solution, we should look at different sources of energy, i hope the mistakes of the past with the affordable care act of
trying to eliminate it for many years only to continue to be the law of the land, 3 million floridians get their care from there, we learn from those mistakes when we look at the inflation reduction act knowing it is the law and will be a law for the foreseeable future and rather than trying to undermine it we should work together on maximizing it and under the inflation reduction act we have incentives for things like modular nuclear and carbon capture in their so for colleagues talking about it as if it is all just renewable energy that is false, this great opportunity to work together to pursue this in the committee and i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back, the chair recognizes mister crenshaw from texas for 5 minutes. >> thank you for hosting this hearing, thank you for being here, we heard earlier republican priors are misguided. that was a little shocking because i think our priorities are very clear. provide energy to the american
people that fits 3 criteria, reliable, affordable and clean. i don't think that's very controversial. reliability is number one. it has to be because energy production is pointless if it isn't reliable. society cannot function if it cannot keep power on. affordability is second. americans need to be able to afford reliable energy without massive government subsidies so they can drive to work, heat their homes and benefit from a thriving economy. republicans want our energy to be clean, and yes, we can have energy that is reliable, affordable and clean, it is possible. also worth noting that america's natural gas revolution is the largest factor in reducing america's carbon emissions, switching from coal to gas amounted for 60% of emission reductions in 2,005. we cared about global emission reduction we might note the us natural gas is 40% clearer than russian national gas which is why republicans advocate more natural gas exports to displace foreign call which by the way accounts for 50% of total
global emissions, that would be some pretty low hanging fruit, if carbon emissions was actually the goal. worth noting that republicans are the strongest supporters of nuclear energy which is both reliable and one hundred% clean, colleagues join us in fixing the outdated process that makes up for your project last for 15 years. democrat colleagues, most just want to talk about wind and solar which isn't reliable and only affordable if you subsidize it. think we can just build a bunch of batteries and deal with the inmates easy problem of renewable, we can clear hundreds of square miles of land for solar and wind farms and pay china to mine and process are critical mineral so we can pretend we aren't actually responsible for the environmental devastation of chinese mining practices and the on norma's amount of emissions that result from processing at all. my question to my colleagues is if the goal is reducing global emissions, work with us to improve our absurd environmental permitting regulations that are choking off our ability to not only build pipelines but also build
solar and wind farms and battery backup systems you care so much about. i know some of them are because my friend scott peterson was just talking about it. surely my colleagues find it troubling that the 10 west transmission line his groundbreaking ceremony was attended by vice president harris last year, won't be online until 2,025. planning actually started in 2016, just for simple one hundred 25 mile transmission line on public land, that's nearly 10 years from start to finish, 4 years of which was just to get the environmental impact statement approved. we put a man on the moon in less time than that. does that seem like a healthy permitting and regulatory system to anyone? surely not. transmission lines, critical minerals, in nevada we couldn't build a lithium mind because of stimulus us plant called tm buckwheat, not joking, look at it. in oregon we can't mine for lithium because of the sage grouse which is a fancy version of a chicken.
in minnesota this administration halted the twin metals project over vague environmental concerns. this mine would have produced copper, nickel, cobalt, all of which are needed for any renewable energy project. my point is this, the false narrative that we can transition smoothly to wind and solar only future is not based on anything that resembles reality. it is a fantasy and a dangerous one that will quickly take us down the failed energy scenario we now see in your. wind and solar have their place, but when energy demand will increase by 50% over the next 50 years, intermittent renewables will never ever be enough and it is time to let that fantasy go. on my promoting oil and gas? yes i am. in fact, the quickest way to reduce global emissions would be to ensure that our cleaner natural gas is displacing foreign coal-fired power plants. that single feet would have a larger impact on global emissions than any other solution offered. the industry thinks we could quadruple gas exports in the
next 10 years if we let them, if that gas displaced foreign role it would displace emissions more than the combined impact of doubling our wind capacity, selling solar panels in every home and electrifying every vehicle in the country. you want solutions for reducing global emissions? build pipelines, build export terminals, lease the land for drilling and sent special trade reps to countries like india and indonesia to make a deal. that's a realistic solution and it is doable. reality has to guide our solutions for the future, we cannot sacrifice energy reliability for radicalism. we must be rational environmentalists, not radical environmentalists and we have to remember the prosperity of the american people depends on reliable, affordable energy. >> the chair recognizes the gentlewoman from minnesota for 5 minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i will focus my attention on
our nation's biofuel sector and its role in strengthening economic and national security. i will ask you a question so get ready. as many of my colleagues know, i have been a champion on the energy and commerce committee for expanding and enhancing this vital segment of our economy. for example, i was the first member of congress to pass year-round e 15 through the house, in the lower feud -- food and fuel costs act in the last congress. i'm eager to work with chair rogers this year. we should take up and pass the retailer choice act which is bipartisan, bicameral legislation that would allow the nationwide sale of ethanol blends higher than 10%, hoping to lower fuel prices, increase stability and certainty in the us fuel market. this is supported by the largest unified group of oil companies to date and i look
forward to reintroducing the proposal in this congress again. e 15 creates opportunities for our family farmers, supports economic growth in rural america and lowers prices at the pump for minnesotans. with this sentiment in mind i want to direct a couple questions to the panel for your thoughts and observations on biofuel policy and where we go from here. mister mcnally, you recently spoke at the national ethanol conference about the future of liquid fuel and told the group to keep the faith because there's no evidence that consumers or governments are on course to d carbon eyes as rapidly as the consensus expects. in a minute or so, i hope you can talk about this comments and why you predict american drivers will still be filling up with homegrown biofuels for many years to come. why don't we go ahead and ask you to comment on that. >> very quickly, thank you for the question.
the consensus has decided to believe that liquid fuel demand, gasoline and ethanol is going to peek globally in 10 years. this is a very controversial, in my view, unjustified, if perhaps attractive vision. if you believe that, demand for biofuels and oil, because they go together, will go down. in my view, that consensus is wishful thinking and demand for energy will grow much stronger than that including liquid fuels which means there will be a bigger pie for gasoline and diesel which biofuels complement. >> thank you so much. doctor cohen, the select committee on climate crisis recommended congress, specifically this committee develop a low carbon fuel standard to build on the renewable fuel standard. i have been a cosponsor of the next generation fuels act which would ramp up the use of homegrown ethanol at gas stations across the country, making americans less reliance on foreign oil and less
vulnerable to the anticompetitive tactics of opec. i'm wondering if you could speak a little more about the design of a low carbon fuel standard, while the time is right to begin this important work on the energy and commerce committee. >> thank you for the question, congresswoman. i actually was able to work on the 2007 energy bill where we did renewable fuel standard which is now in need of reauthorization so the time is right for this committee to take a hard look at biofuel policy. we recommended doing a low carbon fuel standard, we have seen that work for transportation fuel, agriculture community out in california and it will be a way to take a holistic view about our liquid fuels and provide that signal and that standard to move towards lower carbon fuels. i agree with mister mcnally, we
are going to be using liquid fuels, we invested in sustainable aviation fuels in recent laws, so we need to provide signals to producers that we are getting the type of transportation fuels we need to meet the climate reduction goals that we know we need to achieve. >> i would like to end by thanking the panelists. it's been a long day for you and with that i yelled back. >> the gentle lady yields back, the chair now recognizes the vice chair of the environment manufacturing and critical mineral subcommittee. doctor joyce from pennsylvania, for 5 minutes. >> thank you, mister chairman. i think all of the witnesses for being here today, realize energy and commerce, the first formal hearing we are holding is directed to energy and how that unleashing of american
energy is so important. as we begin the one hundred eighteenth congress, this hearing is the first chance for energy and commerce republicans to begin tackling the issues facing all american people. it is great to be back with my colleagues in one room to do the job that our constituents sent us to washington to do. our new republican majority is ready to an act the commitment to america. a core piece of that plan is to ensure that our nation has a robust and reliable energy supply. let's be clear, you've heard us say it repeatedly. energy security is national security. our physical and economic well-being is tied to maintaining energy. your words resonate with me. you messaged to us how important energy sources at affordable prices are to wall americans and how the high cost of energy is certainly having
more impact on lower socioeconomic americans and how that impact affects each individual american every day of the week. american policymakers in front of you have recognized that reality. it is why the department of energy was established in 1977. in order to decrease our reliance on foreign adversaries, with both her publican and democrat presidents, our nation finally achieved that goal. under the lasted been a straight energy superseded that goal. we were and energy exporter. we were energy dominant, energy dominant, supplying those necessary energy forms for our friends and allies. sadly it is no longer true. the biden administration has waged a war on american energy industry by creating restrictive and burdensome
regulations that have left us less secure and more exposed to bad actors, focused on poor alternatives like wind and solar instead of baseload power capacity has made our grid less reliable and less resilient. this becomes clear in my district in pennsylvania when i heard from constituents that they were asked by their utility companies over the christmas holidays to conserve energy or risk outages. it is shocking, it is shocking, in the state of pennsylvania where we have strong energy portfolios, coal, natural gas, nuclear and they all play critical parts in the commonwealth's electricity supply, generations of pennsylvanians of gone into coal mines to power america, new drilling technology has enabled an explosion of natural gas production from the shale industry. it is unacceptable that in a
state, in a nation as blessed as we are with natural resources, for our citizens to be at risk of blackouts because of bad government policies. now is the time to abandon these failed policies and unleash the reserves, the reserves that are under the feet of my constituents in pennsylvania. with our new house majority, republicans are ready to begin implementing policies that will allow new leases for oil and gas production, reform the permitting process for energy infrastructure and prevent burdensome government regulations to reclaim american energy dominance. my first question is for you, can you speak on how critical it is for grid reliability to have baseload power capacity and how does the closing of coal and natural gas power plants in favor of renewables affect the grid resilience?
>> until relatively recent past, almost all the power plants in the country were dispatch a ball. whether it was hydro or gas or coal or nuclear, the advent of wind and solar which are great at emissions has increased instability in the grid. it is only good at the edges of the grid, doesn't come close to having other peaking sources. >> i'm going to interrupt if i may. how would government policies forcing electric vehicle adoption further strain the grid? >> electrification overall is a big part of it, adding more demand and what we are seeing is on the supply side, more power plants are being shut down and are being built and the ones that are getting built are less available so that is
increasing risks in our system and as a result, increasing prices. in new england the electricity prices were one hundred% on the energy side above where it was a year ago. >> appreciate all of you being here and i yield. >> the gentleman yields back, the chair recognizes the gentle lady from washington for 5 minutes. >> i am delighted to be back on this committee and let me also say it is a special privilege to work with my fellow member from washington state, our new chairwoman of the committee. i agree with my republican colleagues here that high, volatile energy prices are a real problem, a problem for my constituents who are still paying over $4.50 a gallon for gas, prices are coming down but not enough. my colleague mr. soto talked about record smashing profits by the oil and
gas industry. i would like to continue to call out what sure feels like price gouging and that is why last congress we passed my bill, the consumer fuel price gouging prevention act and i hope we will take that up again. i wanted to pivot to national security. i think russia's more on ukraine has highlighted and refocused our attention on how tightly tied our energy independence is to our national security as we watch what is happening in europe. national security is not just geopolitical. it is also security from the fire and longworth house office building disasters we are experiencing all across the country. with that in mind, conjuring up what mister curtis says, i think we can all agree that we need to be bringing down emissions and we need to be
transitioning away from fossil fuels toward cleaner sources of energy. i would add even with so much domestic production of gas and oil we still have extreme price volatility so there's many reasons, energy independence, where we need to transition, stability and energy prices, pollution prevention, climate action, national security, that all should make us want to redouble our efforts to move away from 20th century energy sources to the energy sources of the future in the us needs to lead, not china. we had committed action last congress in putting in incentives, economic incentives to boost innovation, hydrogen hubs, battery manufacturing, really supercharged research. i will also note that some of the things that were in the
that bill, would help individual customers afford heat and other innovations that would help energy efficiency and to bring down those monthly bills. also, because of clean hydropower, the chairwoman and i pay some of the lowest electricity costs in the nation. i want to ask, doctor cohen, in your testimony, back to national security, you noted that china leads the globe in clean energy investment. we all know that this is not because they are great environmentalists, they are doing it because that is where the money is. can you talk why the united states needs to catch up, surpass and lead in this area? >> thank you for the question, congresswoman. going back to your point on the consequences of climate change, the western wildfires don't just stay in the west to.
everybody has health impact that come from that, burning of forests. to your question about china, in 2022, china invested $546 billion in clean energy transmission, the us was a distant second at 141 billion. that doesn't count what we just passed, so we expect that to change very quickly, but as a number of people have mentioned, increasing glee every country is looking for energy security so they are looking at what can they do domestically which means they start looking at what they can produce from renewable energy, and i quoted it, bp's economists have said we are seeing that and a huge change
in europe in the face of them realizing they can no longer rely on russia for energy. >> that is why we need to do innovation that this committee will do, we are a crossroads where we can't depend on china for those resources, we need to do the mining, the recycling and everything else it will take to invest, i yield back. >> the gentlewoman yields, i recognize my colleague from north dakota, mister armstrong. >> we need to be honest about the use of energy on the planet and its importance for economic growth and national security. next year, regardless of any policies pushed by the botnet ministration a world. use more carbon energy than it did, and the year after that and the year after that. in the united states this administration has taken a whole of government approach to dissuade develop and but in europe, we are seeing a realignment accompanied by substantial long-term investment in carbon energy as countries try to make up for
russian supply chains. the norwegian energy ministry has proposed putting 92 offshore oil and gas blocks in its licensing round, spain lay the groundwork to become your buddy deb's natural gas hub. they have the capacity to onboard it, they just need to move it. germany's building an infrastructure to support 56,000,000,000 m of capacity, roughly the same amount imported from russia in 2,020 one. given the right regulatory environment these investments are for the long-term. despite past rhetoric there is an awakening in europe that energy security is essential to national security and economic growth and there are lessons to be learned, if we don't think the challenges are relatable to the united states we only have to look to the northeast were natural gas availability is threatened by an artificial supply crunch. like continental europe natural gas shipped in from producing areas but unlike countries such as spain and germany, northeastern state have yet to
recognize the threat posed by unreliable access despite warnings from grid operators, industrial uses and utilities. at every opportunity, the permitting and certification process with carbon energy infrastructure have been mired in legal and regulatory -- and worse yet for my friends who support green energy, we have taught them how to stop those projects as well. you don't have to look farther than the northern pass pipeline which is trying to bring hydropower from montréal to boston. it cannot get built in any state on the northeast corner, you know who shut it down? indigenous tribes in southern canada and the sierra club. from the defeat of the constitution pipeline to the cancellation of the northeast supply enhancement projects, years of coordinated environmental opposition have prevented the construction of one thousand miles of interstate pipeline across the northeast. instead of expediting deployment of the necessary infrastructure to move abundant energy resources northeastern states supported by an
antagonist federal regulatory environment have done everything in their power to halt that development. since day one the biden administration has taken that playbook and applied it on a national scale. last month through an expansive definition of waters of the united states the biden administration further empowered activist and environmental entities within states to abuse the section 401 certification process to stifle pipeline develop and for political reasons, now, only a few weeks later, a new guidance from the council on environmental quality will further muddy the waters as agencies evaluate greenhouse gas emissions and climate change when considering proposed actions. under this latest proposal the council on environment equality is pushing for agencies to use this process to link decisions with the national climate change agenda, connecting reviews to environmental justice, pushing arbitrary alternatives and providing a new pathway to consider both upstream and downstream emissions. while it remains to be seen how
this new guidance will play out it almost certainly will further slow the development of much-needed energy infrastructure projects and drive capital away from the carbon energy resources. i appreciate what you set up a lithium ion battery. when we figure out a better way to store electric energy, it will have as great an impact on our economy as the steam engine or the microchip. the problem is the lithium-ion battery needs it. in your testimony you talk about the need for reform as part of the permitting and approval process. can you walk through how the activist capital combined with straying from statutory strain charge has distorted the marketplace for carbon energy infrastructure? >> yes, congressman. as you laid out, very long approval processes are effectively a tactic to never build. that is what it is. the last administration they
put a time stop, not a yes or no but you got to get it done in a certain time period. >> i called it an unreasonable amount of time. and so i think some sort of -- congress when peter talked about reform, one of the key things holding up things from getting built is incredible long time period from the time a company tries to lay it out to the approval plus inflation, the inflation mixes projects with long delay undoable economically at the end of the day so some sort of time stop on reform, doesn't say it has to be built or has to be approved or not approved, just do something reasonable from a time period, that is good for everything. >> i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentlewoman from massachusetts. >> i don't think we can have a
hearing on energy supply and not mention the record profits big oil companies are about to announce from last year. the corporations are slated to earn a combined profit of almost $200 billion. these same companies sat here before this committee last year and groveled for more drilling permits so they could lower prices. apparently they couldn't use any of those profits to start drilling on the thousands of permits they already have and couldn't allocate another dime to restart the refineries they shut down but you bet they use those profits for stock buybacks, to inflate their share price and make sure they got there multimillion dollar bonuses. mister chair, i agree with you and members of your parties that we need to achieve energy independence, stop relying on the whims of opec. for thomistic oil barons, we can't trade vladimir putin for exxon mobil if you're going to keep doing the same thing.
influence the market to pad their profits while working families pay the price. mister chair, the american people want to lower energy costs and a planet that their kids can inherit. to achieve that goal, we must focus on sustainable alternatives and we are close to having one, in particular, that will change energy as we know, recent breakthroughs including at lawrence livermore national laboratory have finally put fusion energy within reach. unlocking this virtually unlimited source of clean energy will drive down costs for a family struggling with gas and oil prices. it will reduce our carbon footprint and help ensure a healthy future of our planet for generations to come but it won't happen without building on the public and private sector investments in research and develop at that have gotten us to this point. so ana unruh cohen, thank you
for your incredible work over the last two congresses, you mentioned public-sector investment in clean energy trailed other countries including china. that about of energy is considering applications from private fusion companies for $50 million in public-private partnership and a new milestone based funding programs that would support building fusion pilot plans. accord into the fusion industry association the funding opportunity announcement was significantly oversubscribed with applications requesting close to 3 times as much funding as allocated. can you just tell us why public investment in fusion energy is so critical for accelerating the impact of existing private investment in the united states? >> thank you for the question. i spent a lot of my career in the house and senate so i'm very familiar with the companies that are doing that,
and fusion is one of those. we had a great one there. the promise of fusion is amazing. we have spent a lot of important research dollars going into that. we have had exciting breakthroughs. and i know we are on the cusp of being able to understand the potential more and hopefully move forward to commercialization. hadn't realized it had been oversubscribed. that is something the appropriations committee can work on and more resources available for that. >> did you want to add something? >> one of the leading fusion companies in the world is around devon. that plant is going, when it comes online in 2025, will
outperform livermore. i don't like to talk about how much but i have a pretty good idea. iran the fusion energy program for the country. we decided when we were there to engage with the private sector. we had not engaged with the private sector before, we had to break a little glass on that. a milestone program we started, we start moving along, needs to be expanded and i know some of the proposals in build back better made that larger. i would encourage that we take the momentum on technology innovation, and i would recommend every one here look at expanding is that. >> i look forward to bipartisan work on that. i believe the committee with this. the nuclear rogatory commission recently released their options of licensing and regulating fusion energy systems which highlight the important safety and security benefits of fusion energy. no chance of a meltdown, no
special nuclear material like plutonium or uranium but it leaves regulatory ambiguity suggesting future fusion power plants may be regulated like fish in which is a very different energy process. i look forward to making sure we put the right regulatory environment in place so that we don't stifle that innovation that is coming. i yield back. >> the gentlewoman yields, the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas, mister weber. >> thank you, mister chairman. i want to talk about something that was said by scott peters. in texas, 40% of our power is renewable, that is not accurate. go to energy information administration, look at that, in texas it is 50% natural gas, 18% call, 76%, not good at math, but that leaves 24%, 20 of his wins, 4% is solar so we appreciate renewables in texas,
we do, but the point of fact is texas, the renewables cannot be the leading actor. renewables can be a supporting actor, but renewables cannot be the leading actor. that winter storm -- talking about pipelines, you and our members, the keystone pipeline would have come into my district in beaumont, texas, carries 830 barrels of oil a day. the pipeline you system you talked about carries 3.1 million barrels a product today. the keystone pipeline is literally one fourth of the output that feeds the southeastern part of the united states. why didn't the president come to texas and beg us to drill for more loyal? it is a real mystery to us. also in my gulf coast district i have the strategic petroleum reserve. we house about 59%, not quite 60% of the spr in my district. i've been watching it for a
long time. i serve four years in the texas house, environment of energy subcommittee, and i will tell you, environment regulation committee, we paid a lot of attention, texas has 225,000 miles of pipeline. the pipeline industry has a 95% safety rating. we can move products safer than anybody else. we can store in the spr, have it ready for emergency not because the president wants to bring down gas prices in an election year, he's trying to help, maybe he's storing advice by documents in his garage to pay storage fees, i don't know, he's just trying to help. i want to go to you if i can, mr. mcnally, you made a comment that an arsenal of energy is what we need to. that is a great term. you talked about world war ii if i remember correctly.
americans need to know what is important and why we have to be energy dominant, energy independence. energy safety, domestic safety, political safety, it is military safety. ..energy, it is absolutely energy safety, its domestic safety, because political safety, its military safety, if you just -- economic safety, you just can't, suppress how important it is. for the president to draw down the espy are in an election year, that's totally uncalled. four >> my question to you is, in your opinion, and you probably come back and looked, i think the spr capacity y depends on wo you talk to about 714 million barrels maybe 730 70 depends on who you are reading. in your opinion, what is the proper use of the spr and what's the history of itt if you know that far back? >> thank you, congressman weber. i think we top out at about
725 million barrels. it's now about down to that half of that level. we are at a 40 year low so since 1983 we see that this low. it's really unfortunate because in a way in my view is a a bipartisan mistake to start to selloff the spr for just to pay regular expenses in 2017. we did the same thing in the mid-1990s under work for president bush after 9/11 when we restock of the spr at higher prices. we kind of went around the circle once before. i was hoping we wouldn't o it again in addition to the mandatory nonemergency cellshe which are very unfortunate but starting quivers, president biden especially in november of 2021 before the russian invasion of ukraine used it purely for political reasons. there was no disruption. the ie wouldn't go along and had to beg china to go along with us. that's up thereus in the halls f infamy with the decision by president clinton
september 2020, 2 months before the election to invite al gore to announce a release at that time. with the emergency release in march of last year at least without we're going to lose russia. when it started we had a real emergency we thought up within a couple of months we realize russian supply was a quick off. they should have suspended the sales. we have a a mixed history with e spr. fortunately some presidents have usedth it for purely political price control rate limited by my count twice. we fed no kidding emergency releases and i would again say the administration probably took the right decision initially because we thought in march 2022 the i ae said we will lose 3 million barrels a day russian supply. again that wolf did not come in the village. we should suspend the sale of we did not. they could for the question. >> ideal backs but the gentleman from texas yields. the chairir recognizes the gentleman from texas come ms. fletcher. >> thank you, mr. chairman.
i welcome our new members and congratulating chairwoman mcmorris rodgers on her historic chairmanship. and thank her wooden serving it today. it has been a long day but i have been here and appreciate your testimony. as we've heard throughout the day our country leads in energy production and innovation. we believe in these areas because of the work that is done in my district and trendy as in houston. we touch every single segment of the energy industry from exploration and a production, transportation, transmission, marketing, technology both traditional and renewable. i'm going to resist the fiveessional urge to spend minutes talk about how great my district is, although it is but a want to share these data points because it helps underscore the importance of the issuessi to me and the depth and breadth of knowledge in my constituents that i bring to the work of this committee. it's with that in mind that i'm glad to say i've heard a lot of
things i agree with today from our witnesses, from my colleagues on both sides of the aisle. but i have also heard a few things i disagree with. i can't go through all of them here but i am disappointed to some of the attacks on the 117th congresses energy policies rather than why did so at how we can work together to build on the historic investments that we made in the last congress. we have talked about some today especially the folks on permitting issues that affects all sectors in whichs i very mh look forward to working under . think it's a boardan underscore the infrastructure investment and jobs act and inflation reduction act that we passed last congress are historic pieces of legislation that make energy and infrastructure investments that further strengthen american energy security and drive innovation for our energy future. at this moment we have an energy sector that is looking stronger thanrt ever. with the eia expecting production to set a a new recd high this year of
12.4 million barrels a day which would surpass the previous record set in 2019. the rig count is backed . it was 771 last week. net exporterwa also expected to rise further strengthen our energy security and portland that of our allies. this is happening whilek we're working to meet growing global demand for energy and reducing emissions. we need to do all the things we're doing and more. we need a holistic approach so i really look forward to talking about what that is and how we come together to do that on this committee this congress. but for today i want to focus my questions on one of the programs we passed in the bipartisan infrastructure law, funding for the animal mentation and design regional hydrogen hub. through this program congress authorized the development of multiple hydrogen hubs to advance a country's clean hydrogen sector and department of energy will select six to ten regions to establish thesed hydrogen hubs. mr. crenshaw and ihe recently wrote a letter to secretary
granholm making the case, not surprisingly for the department toth slip houston as a location for hydrogen hub under the program. i want to direct my question first to dr. cohen. and is the time i will ask this, i have a quick follow up if we get to it. if not i will submit for the record. can you talk a little bit about how this program will advance hydrogen technology deployment and why federal support is essential in emerging technological sectors like hydrogen?. >> yes. and i will sing houston's raises and the process because they are a great example of a poor industry, academia, local government have come together to identify. we need to take our strengths and talents in the energy industry and expand that. you will be a good candidate for the hydrogen hub. the program will drive these types of partnerships between industry and the federal
governmentdr to develop the new technology. and hydrogen is critical for also all of the petrochemical work that happens in the houston area. we are going to need clean green hydrogenen to help the company some of those processes so that we can benefit and have the clean chemicals coming out of our domestic plants. >> thank you for that. with the time i have left i do want, i may have to get your the record and if anyone else wants to submit response i would appreciate that because while this investment is essential to jumpstarting the technology i worry there's still a lot of hurdles the congress needs to address before we can see widespread adoption. d.o.e.'s 2020 hydrogen program plan identified rights-of-way and permitting issues forth hydrogen pipelines as challenges for hydrogen delivery infrastructure. there are still a lot of
unresolvedog questions regarding siding, political federal-state jurisdictional conflicts, and the regulation of pipeline rates in terms of service the need to be resolved. so with the 12 seconds i've left -- is that quite a work. >> was goingrm the wrong direction. >> with that, that is my question to if you could respond to that for the record i would appreciate it and i will yield back the balance of a time that i got over. thank you very much, mr. chairman, for indulging me. >> all right. thank you, the gentleman from texas yields. the chair recognizes the gentleman from georgia mr. allen. >> thank mr. chairman, and energy security is national security. we further over and over again. the last time we were in the majority we passed congressional review act. and what itt did was revise a lt of thee regulations can update a lot of regulations around oil and gas industry.
what we saw we couldn't believe. we became energy dominant. we had the power to control the cost of a a barrel of oil. that to me is maybe the greatest power that you can experience. in fact, we drove it market price was 30, $40 a barrel barrel. we greater whole war with the seven dollars a barrel and now we're what, 90 to 100, it's been over 100 now it will fluctuate even more than that. but, in fact, we do this throughout the economy and ms. jackson, everybody benefits. it was a greatest time i've ever seen myy lifetime. so there's no secret that president biden come his administration have declared war on fossilli fuels. he said there will be no more drilling. in fact, thatat was a quote. so we see what's happened there. in fact, backno in the greatest
economy we had 1.26% inflation. and so you know, so how can we unleash oil and gas industry and become energy dominant again? is a secret sauce? [inaudible] to both, yes. >> again, if i could rephrase my attempt to answer, get back to all of the above and get on his data and analysis. if we can just do that will be in ama much better place. to hisis credit president obama, to his credit, helped get rid of the crude oil export ban which directly threatened the shale oil boom and recognized not only was that good foror energy production but help us offset the loss of iran which were sanctioning and so forth. he understood that transitions are multi-decade affairs and he
comes to his credit, thought gas was part of the clean energy future. but as you pointed out we had moved to keep it in the ground, to a war on fossil fuels, and that must end. honestly if wicked it back to where we were in the last few presidents, including president trump where it's all of the above, we can unleash our energy potential. >> congressman, it started with a great innovation by the membr from texas, the permian basin cost year-by-year was dropping because of innovation. that allowed us to drive prices down globally as a result of that innovation. then the federal system and the state systems allowed things to get built, to move that energy to where it needs to go. >> let me ask you this. would it be fair to assume that free market drive prices down, government intervention drive
prices up? >> that is the irony of what we're seeing today. >> okay. so what we've done, i was on the house energy action team and i met with a lot of, i was a small business owner. i met with a lot of small business owners. who went in the business of drilling and m refining. they are out of business. they were driven out of business. if you have more demand than you have supply, guess what? the price is going to go up. now obviously if you're one of the few companies remaining you were going to benefit from that. now, how do we reverse that? we've got to open up the free markets and then, you will drie down prices. i mean, there's no secret to the way our economy works. as far as also wanted to ask you a quick question, i've got about 45 seconds, about russia being the leading leader and exporting
enriched fuel and their course of the strategy was to urge for u.s. production of her own nuclear fuel. i've got plenty of electricity in georgia. in fact, you probably have to bring your car to georgia to charge it at some point in time. but can you give me a a little background on that? >> so russia has almost half of the global enrichment market. the biggest expose country to united states. if the russia tomorrow decided to stop exporting their enriched your into his come over the course of a couple refueling cycles we might lose half of the fuel needed to run the nuclear power plants, as 20% of the country of 10% of the power plants would be at risk of not having fuel. >> i would hope this congress will do something about that. thank you. thank you and i you back. >> the chairir recognizes the gentleman from california,
ms. barakat. >> thank you, thank yo. when i receive the republican committee memo for today's hearing what stood out to me was ach complete absence of the need for u.s. energy policy to address climate change for environmental justice. not a word. an effective use energy policy must keep costs down, create the jobs of the future and reduce the fossill fuel pollution that warms our planet and harms the public health of many communities, including my own latino community, community of color in my district. dr. cohen, let me thank you, thank you for your tireless work in thehe last congress with the select committee to make sure that we were doing everything e could to savee the planet, addressing climate change and doing the hard work of the select committee. one important program from inflation reduction act the democrats passed is $3 billion
for climate and environmental justice block grant. based off of my bill the climate justiceat grant act. can you tell us a little bit about how can this program helped to reduce energy costs and reduce pollution in communities of color and otherer committees across the country? >> thank you for the question, congresswoman. that's what are then most exciting programs in inflation reduction act that's going to provide funding to empower committees to look at the judges that they are facing when it comes to energy costs, climate costs. as we heard fromto ms. jackson d others, there are challenges that constituents are facing. high prices are problems for everybody. and so this program is going to really empower communities to figure out the solutions that work the best for them, to help bring them affordable, clean
energy in response to the climate crisis consequences that theyof are seeing already indexd annuity. >> great thank you get my next question is also for you. i want to talk about geothermal, something the chair and i actually working on together and how we invest in geothermal. this questionn is related to the climate crisis action plan that the select committee on the climate crisis work on, highlighted the development of more geothermal energy as a building block of going american clean energyy production. could you describe out increased development of geothermal energy in california and elsewhere would enhance usemo energy security with 24/7 clean power? >> yes. geothermal is tapping in to the power of the earth in what is all around us in california has been a leader because of the particular geologic benefits in profiling in california but as a technology has improved from
investment in d.o.e. over the years we are now at a place where we are close to commercialization of energy supply in areas that don't have quite the great resources that california and other parts of the west half. and so it will also will add to that need to provide dispatchable power to fill in at times that we need it. i think it's one of the most exciting opportunities, coming our way. in addition, quickly, it also use the skillll set and training of many members who are working, or workers in the oil and gas industry right now. it provides an additional opportunity for them to take those skills and help continue to provide this country with energy. >> thank you.
mr. chair, i would like to enter into the record agenda or 30th climatee wire article titled china invest 546. in clean energy far surpassing the u.s. this t is china's 2022 investme. dr. unruh cohen, the inflation reduction act passed by democrats includes 369 billion and clean energy and climate programs. it's important to fight climate change and to compete with china are the jobs and industries of the future. more must be done to support clean energy. what of the most important steps the u.s. canna take in the next few years toe keep pace with china on clean energy? >> i i think we're seeing it already. just since the passage of inflation reduction act we have seen hundreds ofea announcements about bringing clean technology manufacturing to the u.s. and expanding what we have already. i had a testimony, nearly $90 billion in projects, and that is private capital coming in ready to partner and have
that synergy with the d federal government investments. >> thank you. thank you for your responses, and i yield back. >> the gentlewoman from california has asked for a document to be entered into the record. we are waiting for theou docume. we will reserve that until the end of emitting. >> thank you. >> the chair recognizes the gentlemangeli from ohio. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you all for being you today. it's been a long day. mr. dabbar, my first question is for you. so sacredk that shall wrestle revolution and the united states has brought inn its economic benefits in ohio, natural gas and oil development can choose more than 50 bring to the te gdp and supports hundredss of thousands of jobs. in addition to economic benefits we've also seen clean and by mental benefits from increased use of natural gas. according to the department of energy use of natural gas for electric power production has led to a 57% reduction in
domestic emissions of airborne particles such as sucked. this is as old an estimated 17 billion in annual health benefits. in 2020 when u.s. natural gas exports were the highest on record in the united states, that's but an annual next exporter of natural gas since 2017. can you discuss the public health and environmental benefits america has seen as resultre of this shell revolution? healtl benefits america has seen as a result of this shell revolution? >> as you pointed out, the big shift from coal to natural gas has had a big impact. another thing has been under reported. this is efficiency when it comes to natural gas. the natural gas power plant, the things you produce in your state that combined cycle gas plants, are about 50 more efficient than they were. they are 50% more efficient and they run on natural gas. it takes less bg use, it takes
less energy to make the same amount of electricity. it produces 50% less emissions. the emissions have been driven down in large part because of your state because of both the natural gas production model so the turban improvements, and the combination of those two has dramatically reduced emissions as a result. >> thank you. follow-up to that. can you discuss in the benefits and exporting our natural gas to developing nations? >> the developing nations, if you go to any international, conference you go to the african nations, and they are very upset. they say that the imf and the world bank is saying you can't get any money to build energy. you guys did it but we are not allowed and it is pretty stark when you go out into these international meetings, and particularly african nations. right now, they burn coal,
being made by chinese companies called power plants. they don't produce much natural gas in china. our ability to export natural gas to those countries and do what we did in this country versus what the chinese are doing to the world is quite obvious. >> thank you. and with green at all cost advocates nuclear and fossil fuel power generation years ago without a concern for their own needs in, they found themselves beholden to the likes of putin for oil and natural gas. what's happening in europe is certainly not a path my constituents want our country to follow. you referenced the problems facing germany earlier. i would like to expand on. that you have concerns that this administration is putting the carpet before the horse when it comes to the transition to renewables, that's the first. question instead of picking where nurse and losers, why isn't so important in this administration and congress promote all forms of energy products? >> if you want to see the
worst-case energy policies, look at germany. they decided to shut down nuclear when it was perfectly safe because of what happened in japan. they decided to increase the risk with an autocrat in terms of their energy exposure. they expanded renewables where germany is not particularly sunny and it's hard to cite, relatively crowded country. one of the starkest things you can see on the internet was when the former president was at the u.n. saying to the germans that they were going to be increasing their risk of energy exposure to russia and a better stop it. there was a picture of the germans at the u.n. laughing at him. i think we know where things actually turned out. >> i would like to hear your thoughts on how we can ensure energy policies don't lead us into the same situation, much of europe has found itself. you have 30 seconds, thank. >> yeah. again, do not let china
dominating the supply lines for renewable power and electric vehicles, showed those really take off at scale into the future. maintain our strategic stockpiles, aim to become an arsenal of energy, stay open to exports, keep diversity and global energy and be at the center of it. >> thank you very much. mister chairman, i yield back. >> thank you. the gentleman from ohio yield. so the chair recognizes the very patient gentleman from illinois, miss schakowsky. >> thank, you mister chairman. it's my own fault. the rule is if you miss the gavel then you go to the end of the line. i didn't realize that. that wasn't true when we were in the pandemic. anyway, i'm happy to be on the committee and happy to be here today. i'm really looking forward to the rollout of the inflation
reduction act and the infrastructure and jobs act. i think it is really going to make a difference. it's going to make a difference to communities all over this country. it's going to make an unprecedented investment into americas clean energy future, creating millions of good, clean jobs. lowering the prices of people at home, on their energy, on their energy bills. finally, really addressing the climate crisis. i agree with the previous democrat in saying that i don't hear enough about that. we should put in these same level all of the energy options. but this is an existential issue right now and dealing
with the climate. i'm so happy that we are going to be addressing that. as well as maintaining and even enhancing the economy of our country. one of the things and that was in the bill as we passed would be an investment in historic 15 billion dollars for the removal of lead service lines, a problem in my community and so many communities where we are not drinking clean water because of these lead service lines. also millions of dollars that are going into help of communities that are most affected low income communities, communities often most populated by people of color.
i also want to mention that over almost 100 years, americans have been subsidizing the fossil fuel industry. to the tune even today of billions of dollars. i think it is important just to mention that somehow spending a lot of money that we have on addressing the crime it crisis is certainly important. i wanted to then to ask doctor unruh cohen the question, similar to the one that was asked earlier. we haven't ruled out the kind of programs that are going to deal with environmental justice communities, communities suffering right now. what are some of the important things we are going to be doing that will serve those communities?
and address the absolute relevant issues that miss jackson raised. >> thank you for the question. we are in a really exciting time. for the first -- these are the first laws where we really have been able to put money forward in specifically environmental justice programs, the biden administration is focusing its investments and has committed to its fulfilling the justice 40 so that we see these benefits flow into these communities that have been under investigated, that have experienced the impact of pollution that comes from fossil fuel development and refining. >> are there also workforce opportunity benefits that might
-- >> absolutely. we will see as these clean energy programs rolled out, there will be a focus of developing jobs for people in the community and getting them the training. we have talked about earlier workforces is a place where we need to have more focus from the congress in this committee. while we will see some improvement, i hope this committee can work on some of those issues going forward. >> let me ask you this. it seems to me, instead of working to pass what i think is an effective legislation that was to do -- am i over? i think i am. i will write that and send it to you. thank you. i yield back. >> i don't mean to be aggressive. we will get everyone -- the gentlewoman yields. the chair calls on the gentlemen, mr. fulcher, from idaho. i >> need to respond to a comment a few minutes ago from my friend from california that
indicated the united states somehow needs to follow china's lead on clean energy investment. i just want the state, for the record, that if anyone believes that that is a model that we want to follow, pay china a visit. i think it may change their mind. on to my specific topic. it will be a question for mr. dabbar, it's in regard to geothermal energy. in my state, idaho, we've been a pioneer on that front. there is the first district heating system in the country was in boise, idaho, in 1892. we've got a very good resource there. it's carbon free, its base load. we are a bit familiar with it there. it doesn't seem to get a lot of attention. you made a comment, mr. dabbar, earlier today that caught my ear. you need to be tilt technology
neutral was the term you used when making distributions on these sources. and not some political idea and try to drive it with the subsidies and so with that comment, i want to get your opinion. i have got a bill that i wrote for several years called the enhancing geothermal production on federal lands act. it allows a geothermal exploration and production on federal lands where there is already existing leases, oil and gas leases. it has not made it very far. i wanted to get your opinion. and does this satisfy the tech neutral argument that you laid out before? what are the opportunities and challenges for geothermal this country? >> congressman, i think expanding geothermal is absolutely something we should be looking at. not knowing every detail of the bill, i think facilitating lands already being used for
energy production and that have the geology already mapped out is going to drive down costs and increase the likelihood of finding the right formation. and further investment in driving down costs of geothermal equipment and thermal efficiency, it is a great base load generation. it is great base load generation wherever it's at. i would think any place that it is available, we should be aggressively attacking that. >> thank you for that. i need to pivot, just utilize my time as best as possible. i'm going to shift. i have a question for mr. mcnally here. it does go to the nuclear arena. also, in my state, we have the idaho national lab. there is a lot of research there with a small modular reactor. one of the arguments that we hear is that, in addition to the efficiency of the energy production, and there can also
be some upside when it comes to grid security. specifically because we are threatened with sabotage. we are threatened with cyberattacks on our energy system so much. by having an energy source which you can isolate, for example, when reactor could potentially power the city of boise, idaho. by isolating that and staying off ultimate connectivity of the old overall grid, that could help with a cybersecurity or cyber threats. your comments on that, is that true or false? is it a benefit to be isolated off the grid or is it a negative to do that? >> congressman fulcher, on that question, that's outside my area of expertise. i would defer to my panel mate, mr. dabbar, if you may have a view on, that that's area outside mixed. >> i think nuclear power is
supportive of good security, first of all it's really hard to penetrate a nuclear reactor in terms of security. i think that has a lot of value. at the end of the day, the availability of it is unparalleled in the system. >> the isolation of staying off a greater grid, do you think that is a good thing or a bad thing? >> the ability to separate in times of any challenges in the grid, including an attack, has great value. >> thank you mister chairman, i yield back. >> the gentleman yields. the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. -- >> thank you chairman, i would like to thank the witnesses as well. mostly good questions have been asked today. thank you all for being here. i represent the basin, it's been mentioned many times. it's the heartbeat of the shell revolution. i'm so proud of the men and
women in the basin, odessa, that part of the country that have innovated to a point where we've literally helped raise a billion dollar out -- billion people out of poverty throughout the world. we have literally lower the cost of living for every american family to the tune of 20 $500 per year. we have allowed this economy, prior to january of 2021, to soar, to absolutely take off. i'm trying to figure out right now the discussion about the climate crisis. who is saying this is the greatest threat we face with any sort of facts? mr. mcnally, to your point, i won i want to see the analysis here. i want to see the debt. you've made incredible point on. i go back to some of the campaign promises the president made. and i quote, we are going to get rid of fossil fuels. there will be no more coal
plants. we are going to phase out fossil fuels. those were three quotes he made. i got to handed to him, he has done everything he possibly can with every tool to assault the 2 million texans who are in this industry, like dr. cohen's family in corpus christi, who are doing the things cleaner, more efficiently, and better than anywhere else on the planet. he has assaulted this industry in a way that is directly attacking, thank you, miss jackson, for your testimony today, the most vulnerable in our country. i appreciate the regulatory and discussions about permitting. mr. dabbar, if we continue with the policies this administration is pushing, what's our country going to look like? what's our economy going to look like? what are we expecting, 45%
increases in demand over the next 30 years in electricity, what are we going to look? like >> the key word you just mentioned there, congressman, is the man. i think, no matter how you approach this topic, as long as there is a demand for a product, then it has to be supplied from someplace. take aside all the other debates. if we are still going to be needing petrochemicals to make this pan or drive some cars because they are not all electric vehicles, someone has to provide the. i think we can all agree on that from both sides. if it's not produced in midland or odessa, it's going to be produced outside tehran. that's it. if we restricted because if -- citing in this country, we will -- it will be produced overseas, it will emit more, it will be more environmentally hurtful for the world, it will be less jobs, less jobs, hear more jobs in toronto, orange -- it's relatively more straightforward. if you have this debate on this
topic about the man, as long as the man is there, for national security and the economy and the environment, it's better to be produced in america than it is in russia or someplace else. >> right now in san antonio, texas, my hometown, about 100 miles to the east of odessa, it's 27 degrees, it's snowing, there is no wind at all. the sun is not going to shine until friday morning. it'll be 27 degrees on friday morning. i just looked i don't know what his official position is. i asked him if renewables provide capacity and i'll ask dr. cohen at the same to you. we have a ton of wind energy. we're so proud of the wing energy we have which is more than the state the stn my district does do renewables whether it it's solar, wind r another form that provides basic capacity for my family right now. >> renewables provide predictable electricity for your family and families all across the country. >> predictable is i think not
always reliable. >> predictable mint predictable. we know when the sun will shine. window when the wind will blow. smart grid operators can then provide, make the energy decisions they need to keep the lights on. i just happen to look at the texas electricity map yesterday and i noticed there's a lot of stranded electricity doubt in my part of the world. so texas could continue its leadership in building transmission they will be able to free up some of that renewable that blowing between corpus christi and san antonio and get it up to other parts of the state. >> it takes every form of energy, every amount of energy and every bit of energy to service the demands. i could talk for another ten minutes wanted to have that much time. >> maybe we can talk another time. >> the gentleman from texas yields. the chair calls the gentlewoman from tennessee ms. harshbarger. >> thank you, mr. chairman. her being here. you are tired.
i'm tired. i'm going to make a couple comments and then i will go to my question for mr. dabbar. ms. jackson i want you i've represent a real district what two district counties. the average median income is 49,005 understand exactly, i get calls every day from constituents who are call my friends and family. they tell me if i pay my power bill i'm going to have to make decisions about do i buy groceries or do i buy my medication? i i want you to know i totally understand,, okay? mr. mcnally, , your statement about foreign and domestic actors beginning to attack our domestic energy infrastructure has never been more evident than with the colonial pipeline attack. i was on homeland securityto lat congress on the cybersecurity and critical infrastructure subcommittee and it was very frightening to hear that, have attack occurred and that it again.appen it hit me because i drive from
my district in east tennessee all the way to washington, d.c. every weekend, and had to stop at every gas station along the way to make sure that i had fuel just to come here and do my job. that hit home, and you saying, i agree with you that congress needsst to be better prepared fr more cybersecurity attacks and when you do hold those bad actors accountable. that's a big deal. mr. dabbar, your comments about russian having the largest overall heu stockpile inig a wod in your statement that use needs to work on our uranium enrichment capabilities is on point. and just so you knowla i have nuclear fuel services in my district, and i've talked to many of those people there and absolutely understand the importance of thisav their issue why we need to do enriched uranium. so with that said, and i'll continue to talk to them so stay tuned. i agree with absolute need
higher base load of power because we see how fragile we are to these disruptions. my question is this, i'm from east tennessee the first district and just before christmas east tennessee experience rolling blackouts after the tennessee valley authority was unable to meet those energy demands required to heat your homes during storm ellie with no the natural gas facilities can come fully online around 30 minutes and our best option for ranking of energy production in adu pinch. my question is this, how much additional investment inci natul gas will we need to combat these unexpected increases in energy demands in the future? >> congresswoman, tva shut donbas logistic of the places have. that's the reason why i think he ran into those problems was that tva was shutting down more plans. they are call plans. you can understand but you will need to replace them with something. you need to replace them with something that can be
dispatched. natural gas is the obvious place to go, subject to some new wouldr power plants which be wonderful east tennessee. the gas pipelines in general are not there to replace plants that use to be call and rail and so on. things are getting more unreliable in the whole ev area including in your region. that's the reality. if gas pipelines are not built you are going to run into that problem more and more as your great economy grows, under east tennessee well from being at d.o.e., you are going of additional problems because her economic growth is so strong. >> the scary thing was that them didn't give notice, tva didn't, to the emergency management services, the emergency broadcast systems went down because of the rolling blackouts. there was equipment damaged. we're trying to track that, too,
as we go along to see along the wayas down, how much notice did they get, how much damage was done monetarily because there's one industry that left -- three miles from the shut down a network through the weekend. i have a question, anybody can answer this, any not a time i have left. the american people tells come appear in work, do your job and get results. but like so many other projects whether it be energy production or highway improvements they get stalled in the nipah process i guess my question is what would a rewrite of nipah look like and how thatct would allow for us to build natural gas production so environmentalists can't sell those projects into nonexistence.. anybody? >> how about bipartisan agreement to a legally enforceable deadlines for nipah decision for clean energy, conventional energy every thing. just say you got a certain amount of time. you got to get it done here and you cut back on the litigation
risk that we are today and is for all energies, all businesses so forth. i said maybe theheav bipartisan agreement behind that. we might want to think about critical national security infrastructure where there you super hundred supersize it. i would hope, and since a person agreement we got toth improve permitting for all energy. >> fantastic. chairman, i underscore that inflation reduction act, had nearly a billion dollars for agencies to fund their permitting work. >> thank you. the gentlewoman yields. take us home, the gentlewoman from iowa, doctor meeks. [inaudible] -- usual i don't need this but i was an that iowa is an energy state. let me also say unequivocally that all of us i think bipartisan agree that what a cleaner healthier planet for our children and our grandchildren. but we also want to be able to
have an economy that can compete in a global economic environment. energy demands that i learned at cop26 and cop 27, to my surprise, i thought energy demand was increasing to i was surprised toar hear at cop26 and 27 they thought energy demand is increasing. what i have yet have yet seen from this administration is a way to transition with reducing admissions. so let me tell you a little bit about iowa. iowa has 50% of its energy from renewables.uc so that his wind, solar solar, biodiesel, ethanol, while mass, biochar, manure. we have this entire slew, and up until two years ago we also had nuclear. we have an entire slew, 58% of our electricity is generated by wind and we were told this year that we would potentially have rolling blackouts. why? because we are an energy exporter. so why should a state that generates massive amounts of
renewable energy be subject to rolling blackouts? it's because there's not enough energy production. on average itou takes 6.5 yearso prevent transmission projects in this country. there are some examples of projects taking over ten tes and they are still not fully transmitted, or i permitted. if we're serious about improving our grid security modernizing our grid infrastructure and diversifying our energy mixke we need permitting reform the last congress i introduce the stay off my line act which seeks to address some of these permitting challenges. just very briefly if you can because i've got a couple of questions, what other steps can we take to improve our nation's permitting process when it comes to transmission? so if you would, mr. dabbar, if you could take a swipe at that. [inaudible] >> excuse me, your microphone,, please. >> the timeclock of approvals
under nepa is basically preventing things from getting bill. i think at the biggest thingng that could get fixed. >> thank you very much. >> i would add that in senator manchin permitting legislation the language that that with transmission i think it's good place for this committee to look at about going for. >> thank you, and you mentioned that earlier as well. i iowa is also the nation's largest fuel ethanol producer and it accounts for about one-fourth the u.s. fuel ethanol production capacity. i've heard a lot from this administration and from people not electrifying our transportation sector. somewhat to bring up a little different source of energy than what we've talked about throughoutti this four hours. i'm very, very supportive of ethanol-basedri aviation fuels r sustainable aviation fuels.ut according to the department of energy replacing existing jet fuels with sustainable aviation fuel has been recognized as an effective strategy to help the aviation industry reduce greenhouse gas emissions, diversify fuel supply, and
enhance energy security. the technology needed for this production already exists including ethanol to jet conversion technologies. compared to petroleum jet fuels sustainable aviation fuel produced from today's corn ethanol offers a 15% lower carbon intensity as we've heard and even be carbon negative. this is a part because the technology to produce ethanol from corn is improved. in fact, lifecycle emissions of corn ethanol have decreased by roughly a quarter in the past 15 years. what r&d incentives and coordinated effort would be needed to speed up the deployment of faf in commercial aviation? mr. mcnally? >> i hate, i learned a long time ago i worked for president bush, even know the answer to the question always i don't know and i can find out. so i'm going to pass to any of my other colleagues. it's not something and in rh and development. >> we find it quite a bit of this at d.o.e. and as you mentioned its a big area of focus. t conversion of wind energy
into sustainable aviation fuel through a series of chemistry steps is completely doable. you can turn went into aviation fuel. and so -- takes a few steps of energy and some efficiency needs to be improved. iowa is an excellent position to help drive that innovation. >> thank you very much. i would agree with our ames laboratory withen what we're dog in thee rentable space is and also continued innovation in nuclear fusion as we've just seen some landmark things occur and then in hydrogen as well. i think with a bright future it will focus on what we have agreement and that we all want a cleaner and healthier planet. >> the gentlewoman yields of the chair calls on the gentlewoman from florida. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to our witnesses for being troopers. we are in our six of this committee. so thank youou for your diligen, persistent and endurance. speaking of endurance our
economy needs some endurance and i can only be provided through a reliable domestic production of energy. i'm so excited this as our first hearing, our first topic. it goes without saying i think regardless if you're republican or democrat, we are an energy economy. everything begins and ends with energies am excited for all the discussions we had today. i and the author of the reins act which seeks to rein in the regulatory environment which costs our economy $2 trillion a year. you can look no further than the work that's been done at d.o.e. or at or others where this has been ann ever-growing presence. going to go down the line if you guys can keep the show because follow-up question to all our witness ballast overview, mr. mcnally. give me one regulation that we can take off the books that would help unleash domestic production of energy and bring down costs of energy in america. just one.
>> take off our reform? it would be nepa. neither is at taproot of all te problems. fixed neither and you fix whole lot of things. >> dr. cohen. >> i think we talked about unleashingng some of the clean renewable energy that's tied up and we need more transmission for that. >> what regulationin specifical? >> that -- i think ferc is doing some rulemaking right now that will look at their regional planning. and i think that improvement will bring about a new transmission building. >> okay. >> to our country. >> thank you. ms. jackson. which by the way you what remarkable quotes today. i've written a number of them down, so thank you for your testimony today. >> i'm going to say that i don't know about the regulation is correct but i would say make the
permitting reform so we can have more energy production. doesn't matter how many leases you have if you can't get the permits. it's useless. >> certainty. certainty in government, it's a novel concept, i know. >> i will also go with neva. we need too clear out the litigation that's backed standard sediment built off. only you can clear out all that. >> perfect. thank you. and it goes right back to you, mr. dabbar. we need to put energy security back at the center of our enery policy both for our national security but also for our allies. my question to you is an element of ip theft and china. you work at the department of energy during the thousand college program crackdown considering chinese researchers gaining access of to lecture property and other sensitive security information. and now you are also involved in the cutting edge quantum technology exploration.
whatll specifically can we do, should we do, to protect our secrets and other sensitive information from the chinese communist party? and how will this effort benefit our own technological development? >> well, with a spin out of caltech, thehe reality is that e chinese have a vast amount of effort for stealing technologies from national labs. when i showed up at d.o.e. there's a significant amount of technology those being appropriated legally because we had no regulation on the interaction. but also at universities. so when i i was at d.o.e. we rolled out that we rolled out four order to a limit that. i give an example something that should be applied to other areas in addition to d.o.e., is at we banned band grant money, the american taxpayer money, going to
university researchers who were also at the same time, programmers of the tiny comes party. we set the american taxpayer money should not go to those people who are also working for them. >> seems a little too common sense if youle ask me. i'm sorry, i cut you off your butt to that t point i mean you have the thousand tons program, yet the confucius institutes on college campuses here i mean, is it something specifically, a database where tracking or is this simply not on the books or has it been been done by second board on the connection between thousand talents and issues of national security programs that were workingng on? >> it's basically been a few agencies that of done it and that's it. i would recommend that this congress take a look at the best practices for what's been done atat d.o.e. and some others, do, because att nsf, the federal reserve has chinese --
>> i appreciate -- >> if you can endure we've got one more. the chair recognizes the german from california. >> thank you very much mr. chabot that i want to thank all of our witnesses. you've done an amazing job. i know it's been a very long day for you. it is almost over. what do thank you for hanging in there with us. mr. dabbar, you said something in your testimony that really resonated with me. whenen highlighted the fact that we are removing baseload generation from our grid at a a much faster rate than we are adding intermittent power sources. and as i'm surete you know thats a particularly acute problem in my home state of california. because of that we are having a situation where there are times when the sun is shining and the wind is blowing what we are having to pay adjacent states to take her excess energy because we have so much of it. the width of the times when we have brownouts or have just people to curtail demand because
we don't have enough baseload. the question for you is, what should be done about that? what do you think we ought to be doing differently to solve that problem? >> so the only entity that's trying to pay attention to this and and i think they're doing a poor job is -- that's because ferc has allowed them to do what they're doing and what you just described. i think that ferc shouldngns be under, that you all should look at a reform of the federal power act to guide ferc to actually do their job to order the california iso to effectively set up efforts that would reinvigorate building a baseload.. >> right. i agree with you on the federal side. on a stateside actually put the blame more with the california state legislature where i served for six years. i think the folks at cal iso do their best but sometimes there
constrained by the state law that is opposed on-demand that's one reason why my constituents pay twice as much of residential electricity as neighboring states, three times as much for commercial electricity, four times as much form. industrial. it really puts a hard heavy burden on the people of california. >> commissioner bernie, former ferc commission is written a couple papers how these layers of state rps standards and tax incentives have turned what was an efficient market model that was anticipated under the federal power act into very convoluted systems which does exactly as you described. >> so talking about baseload, i wonder if we could have a discussion about what potential path forward would be. so obviously we are trying to rekindle some interest in fusion energy. i'm sorry, fission energy. but they're been very promising
development in fusion energy and a know youre had a question for mr. mike cochair on the fusion caucus, is his tray hand. good to talk about the future you see for -- ms. tray hand. maybe your levelel of optimism that could be part of the solution to the problem? >> so for a couple of decades there was not much innovation in the material science andma other areas around fusion. there was a lotlu of innovationn batteries in wind and solar, but as of about five or six years ago there was some big jumps in terms of innovation in fusion in particular around material science that allowed for thehe magnetic fields to get stronger, that really makes the possibility of a net out fusion possible. the announcement at livermore was great but that was not made to be a power plant. that was getting with the weapons program. i was made to be a power plant. but i think there are a number of fusion companies including southern california, , including in northern california as well
as massachusetts that are much farther down the road than even at lawrence livermore. i would recommend that given, fusion has all the positives of all the other energy sources and literally almost none of the negatives. .. negatives. and so, given the advances in technology, i would recommend a further, additional investment by the country into this now kind of beginning to break through area. >> i agree with you. i think it has to be tension to really revolutionize the space and solve a lot of these big hairy societal problems that we've been grappling with. but, i'm out of time. >> le that's appropriate for
fission, but maybe not for fusion. and i want to thank you for your testimony. thank you to all of the witnesses and i enjoyed the testimony today. i'll yield back. >> the witnesses have made it and i want you to know that you're worth everything that you were paid to be here today and i'm going to talk to the committee about building in bathroom breaks in the future. thank you so much to our witnesses and to all of our members. without objection i'd like to request the following documents to be entered into the record nor today's hearings, a letter natural gas infrastructure, industrial, consumers of america. a letter concerning energy regulations and productions from the american exploration production council and generations, retirements from american's power. a paper arsenal of energy. blueprint for series and form from american leadership. eight necessary steps to defend u.s. critical infrastructure from cyber attacks, reform for
the american leadership. and the paper entitled u.s. climate recommendations from the 118th congress. a paper, u.s. energy from the 118th congress reform nor american relationship and by the way the witnesses can leave. the title restoring america's competitive energy, advancement from the department of energy. reducing russian involvement in western nuclear power, marcus from columbia university, article, aids war effort calling for sanctions from "the washington post," article, ukraine war to accelerate shift away from fossil fuels. climate change, key concepts for health, and equity outcomes for new federal investments and clean energy infrastructure from the bipartisan committee and finally from climate war on
clean energy investments. members have 10 days to ask questions for the record and the witnesses should respond by february 14th. without objection, the subcommittee is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] >> cin up live on the c-span netwks at 10 a.m., house lawmakers meet to read the u.s. cstution on the floor as mandated by new house rules and begin the process of considering legislation to