Skip to main content

tv   Winston Churchills Contemporaries  CSPAN  November 13, 2016 10:00am-11:29am EST

10:00 am
history tv all weekend, every weekend, on cspan3. now, the 33rd international churchill conference. we recently covered two full days of panels and speeches on the former british prime minister at the mayflower hotel in washington, d.c. historians discuss his contemporaries, including john anderson who served with him in the british war cabinet in world war ii and churchill's personal physician. this is about an hour and a half. >> good morning. byant to begin congratulating you for joining us at this un-churchillian hour of 9:00. he was a man of tremendous energy. i cannot help but feel if we
10:01 am
lived in the true spirit of churchill, we would all be in bed at this time of day. of course, we would have read all of the newspapers and have worked through all of the daily correspondence by this point. i feel many of us are lacking in the amount of domestic and secretarial assistance sir winston had through much of his life so perhaps our failure to emulate his morning routine is pardonable. i'm a senior research fellow at the margaret thatcher center for freedom located in washington, d.c. the title of our panel today i'm great contemporaries has a truly churchillian ring to it and i am delighted to be joined by three distinguished churchillians who will be speaking on men who played important roles in different ways in churchill's life. john anderson, mackenzie king, and lord morris. is professoraker
10:02 am
of modern history at christchurch university in the united kingdom. chartsest book churchill's evolution as a nuclear statesman and has been described as impressive, gripping reading, and the best yet written on the nuclear churchill, so go buy your copy immediately to today, he will be looking at churchill's relationship with a man he described as unjustly unsung, john anderson, who led the wartime effort at churchill's request to build the atomic bomb. our second speaker began his career in english banking, continued in canada, bridging both countries with the relationship between tito great prime ministers. on therdon will speak subject of is superb 2012
10:03 am
book. our third and final speaker is a british import, a scotsman no less, who served his adopted country him in the united states, in the army for 30 years. he is a distinguished physician who has been elected to several medical associations. biographer who studies the effects of illness are leaders and is an acknowledged expert on the medical issues that affected winston churchill. he will speak on a gentleman who was a diarist and physician who cared -- coordinated the care the last 25 years of his life. these are our speakers today. we will speak for about 25 minutes which will leave us with about 25 minutes of q&a. let's go to our first speaker. [applause] >> good morning.
10:04 am
llian hour.churchi thank you for giving me this platform. it is a real honor. iq for lending me your -- thank you for lending me your ears for the next 20 minutes. to begin at the beginning, in january of 1945, as the churchill prepared for the long trek to yalta for his second wartime meeting with president roosevelt and joseph stalin, he wrote a letter concerning the wrong if something went
10:05 am
if either he or his present to presumptive heir should perish on the way to our back from the primary -- crimea. he said there was only one man the king should send board to replace them as prime minster. here he is. sir john anderson. is met with sir john who? independentwas an mp. he was a member of the war cabinet since 1940. he was chancellor of the checker. onlyson was, he said, not well adapted by character and outlook to shoulder the burden of the primary ship, but also
10:06 am
because of the general regard attaching to him from all political parties. as we know, yalta was codenamed argo not -- argonaut. he returned safely. was what it was. nonetheless, i still think we should ask the question, what was it about this man, john anderson that one him such a vote of confidence? what was the relationship between these men, personal as well as political? here is the thing. in the u.k., vermont the united states, if john anderson is membered at all it is for this kind of her gated iron -- corrugated iron construction.
10:07 am
it is shelter. million of which were issued by the government in 1939 and 19 already in the hopes of giving the british public some protection from german bombing. than a anderson is more bomb shelter, and so i would like the anderson rediscovery process to begin now. 1882 in scotland. he was a proud scott. he graduated in 1903. the subjects were geology, science, and mathematics. a year at leipzig did a studyhere he of the chemical properties of something called uranium. rejected a career in
10:08 am
science and entered the civil service. a string of appointments followed. at the colonial office, national insurance commission, the board of inland revenue. everywhere he went, his work ethic and organizational prowess one him golden opinions. in 1920, he took up a new appointment. he was about 38. he became joint permanent secretary for ireland. he was based in dublin castle. he was shortly on an assassination a list. england andck to became the permanent secretary at the home office. for a civil job servant. from 1932 to 1942, anderson theed a reputation as
10:09 am
greatest administrator of his age, perhaps of any age. his home office staff to get to give him in the name, jehovah. the all wise. shift2, in a dramatic location, he headed east to become governor of bengal. another perilous assignment. anderson risked his life continually with the utmost composure and carrying out his duties and narrowly missed assassination twice. 1937, he is back in england and begins a new career in politics. he entered parliament as an independent mp, capital i. axis civil servant, he did not think he should now his colors to any particular mast. equally supported the national
10:10 am
government. -- he fully supported the national government. his stars in rows. secretaryhe home recognized his administrative competence and gave him the task of overseeing national evacuation policy, this being the time of the war scare. later, neville chamberlain appointed him lord privvy seal. that is a cabinet level position. he was given special responsibility for air raid preparation. he was in charge of civil defense in general. ironman, at the outbreak of war you became home secretary and continued as de facto minister for home security. that was a daunting dual
10:11 am
portfolio which he initially retained in churchill's ministry in may of 1940. he was not a member of the small or. -- war cabinet. of 1940, he was made lord president of the council. that job had a seat in the war ca has a right. binet he did best. ofhandled a wide range unspectacular but vital domestic issues. good policy, social services, allocation of manpower. churchill was grateful. he came to call anderson the automatic pilot of the home front. he was grateful because what anderson did was allow churchill to concentrate on winning the
10:12 am
war, the military conduct of the war. here's the thing. historians have often found dourhill's regard for this and unattractive victoria something of industry. i think it is true -- victorian something of a mystery. i think it is true. tohad an uncanny resemblance the undertaker and oliver twist. solemn man whose features were not naturally intended to wear a smiling aspect. it was also said that an anderson speech could sometimes resemble a funeral oration which sounded as though he had not known the dear departed very well. [laughter]
10:13 am
thehurchill looked beyond pompous edifice that was john anderson. far wideran of outlook that has civil service background would suggest. he was imperturbable. he was possessed of great personal courage exemplified by his time in india and ireland and the possessor of an acute and powerful mind, a firm spirit and long experience of. responsibilities. -- of varied responsibilities. a dole dog socially by all accounts. you may not want to be stuck in the lift with him. tonever gained admittance churchill's and her circle of companions. one of those companions better]
10:14 am
was always sneering about john anderson's small outlook. he thought there was something wrong with the world when a servant could somehow rise to become a master or a minister of the crown. happy,ston does not look does he in this picture? maybe they have been stuck in a lift together. admitted that anderson's solid gifts were not those that set the pm's mind on fire. even though winston trusted him and respected his judgment, he did not always find him congenial. at the same time, he was convinced that churchill had great need of such a man. more to the point, so to churchill. book, irching my
10:15 am
rediscovered anderson, happily so. we did not share a lift. happily so. i found something else. i found that churchill's faith in anderson's ability to get any job done well extended into the realm of atomic energy. all anderson's other cares and concerns, september 1941, churchill gave him ministerial responsibility for something called tube alloys. the top-secret british effort at that point to create an atomic bomb. in my remaining time, i would like to dwell a little on this churchill-anderson atomic relationship. ,n churchill's orders to alloys this race to harness the power of nature of the bomb before
10:16 am
nazis gave one tubular was one of the most closely guarded secrets of the war. not even the service ministers knew very much about what was going on until near the end. fact, there were only three individuals who knew how the whole thing fitted together in its vast, scientific, industrial, technical, military, diplomatic, financial complexity. one of those was churchill, obviously. his interest in the bomb during the war possibly did. sometimes he was keenly interested. other times he had a war to run. present danger more than futuristic stabilities preoccupied him. the second individual is here in hat.rademark bowler
10:17 am
frederick linderman. churchill's very close friend and his scientific mentor. the third individual is not in the picture. you have already seen him. john anderson. he was the glue, i would suggest, that held the whole thing together, the workforce. solid -- a line is belying his stolid demeanor turned out to be a nuclear visionary. that was the surprise in my research. as the war went on as atomic development gathered pace, anderson became convinced of the uniono inform the soviet of what the british and the americans and canadians were up to.
10:18 am
his reasoning was simple. the soviet union had the raw materials. they had the scientific brains. the soviet union had the industrial potential after the war to create atomic arms. it just did. it was foolish to think otherwise. in order to avoid a future catastrophic nuclear arms race, and the present it was necessary to apprise stalin in the most general way of what the manhattan project was all about, to tell them that the british and americans were working on a british -- an atomic bomb. and it would be used against the common and many -- common enemy. this was the minimal show of anglo-american faith necessary if the soviet union was later to abandon any thoughts of developing its own super weapons and work with the british and
10:19 am
americans and canadians after the war in creating a system of international control, a way of chaining up this calamitous power that has been unleashed, a way of directing atomic power towards constructive rather than destructive ends. neil's bar is regarded as the foremost advocate of postwar international control. septemberet him in 1943 in london. as suggested that he fell under the spores spell. he had worked out this thing a good year before he met niels bohr. what you have from the 1943 is anderson, churchill's go to man
10:20 am
working almost as co-conspirators within the grand move the keyry to figures, winston churchill and franklin roosevelt towards acceptance of the idea of international control, and beginning with a very very -- fly overting of the joseph stalin. andersonchill, john had his work cut out. churchill was a monopolist, determined to keep the bomb a close secret. anderson chipped away. in may 1944, thanks to his maneuvering,enes
10:21 am
churchill agreed to give niels for an hour of his time. atomic famous moment in history. it was a total disaster. churchill was under great strain as d-day loomed. he was in a foul templat -- temper. john anderson was as dejected as niels bohr. thanks to the intervention of another admirer, u.s. supreme court justice frankfurter, franklin roosevelt agreed to see niels for a few months -- bohr a few months later. this time, he seemed to make an impact. maybe stalin should be told. international control, that may have something to go for it. churchill's monopolistic outlook is a problem, but i will take
10:22 am
care of churchill. alas, for poor and anderson, it was really churchill who took care of the president. in september met 1944, at hyde park, churchill and roosevelt initialed an atomic understanding that is best remembered today for affirming their desire for joint anglo-american nuclear cooperation in wartime and peacetime. that contained a repudiation of and international control. historians debate whether fdr or justre churchill, let him think he agreed with his ideas. r prejudice anti-boh
10:23 am
is unquestionable. he wrote at the time that niels bohr was all for giving away all the secrets. no he wasn't. churchill wondered whether he should be locked up. anderson was rather shocked by the attack on an honorable man. his mindded to set straight to the point that niels bohr retained his liberty until the end of the war. indeed, once the trinity test out in the wilds of new mexico proved that the atomic bomb was a real weapon, not just a radical, churchill's monopolistic convictions parted. at the same time, he began to entertain the idea that the bomb
10:24 am
and the anglo-american monopoly of the bomb might be used as a diplomatic lever to make stalin except the settlement in europe, particularly over all of based based on western democratic. -- democratic principles. the 1945 general election saw him lose office. as for anderson, he was retained by the labor government as an atomic advisor for 18 months, testimony to the respect that all political parties had for men putting national interest ahead of personal or partisan political interest. in the end, as we all know, international control never materialized.
10:25 am
instead the cold war in the nuclear arms race that anderson and a lot of other people had feared came to pass. it left the world leader in -- teetering on the brink of calamity. anderson stepped down as a member of parliament in 1950. churchill asked anderson to join his government one year later. anderson declined. andersonyou, to which replied that he could not afford to join the government. what he may have meant is that it was going to find it impossible to provide his wife, hersocialite, known even to close friends as becky sharp personified with the lifestyle expected on the ministerial salary. she was the widow of race with
10:26 am
him, who supply churchill with a lot of vital information before his untimely death. anderson accepted a. -- a peerage. he continued to inform the government informally on atomic matters. he died in 1958. shortly before his death, anderson reminiscing about the oppenheimer,bert the director of the manhattan project. anderson, a sweet guy oppenheimer recalled. had never been reconciled with the back that bohr's council had never been followed. nor his own counsel.
10:27 am
i think however one regards the atomic aspects of john anderson's career, and his outlook now seems idealistic and naive, knowing what we do about stalin's nuclear ambitions, i think you will at least agree that anderson's importance to churchill and churchill's dependence on and at times makes him deserving of being remembered for something more than a garden-based bomb shelter. thank you for your time and attendance. [applause] >> good morning. thank you for those initial words.
10:28 am
mackenzie king. the major participants on the allied side in the second world war were britain, the united states, and the soviet union. the contribution by what could be called the second division was a significant factor in the successful outlook -- outcome of the war. this included members of the british empire and commonwealth, of the dominions the major cheerleader to the war was canada. the contribution of that country is opined by the british historian richard holmes, he 1941, britain would not have survived as an independent nation at it not been for the agricultural,
10:29 am
industrial, and financial aid received from canada." he also wrote in that book, "the canadian contribution was remarkable in terms of manpower, it produced over one million volunteers for the allied armed killed out of,000 a population of 11 million." as usual, only the squeaking wheels get the grease. the quietly competent canadians deserve more credit than they have received or i can give here. was williamnister lyon mackenzie king. he was born in 1874. ofdays after the birth winston churchill.
10:30 am
height and in in the color of their eyes. that similarity did not attend to their scholarly achievements. whereas churchill was an indifferent scholar. brilliant student with degrees from the university of toronto and harvard. he was given by canada's prime minister jens is the king's .uture was in canada he occupied the senior civil service persistent -- physician .hen churchill arrived to speak on his next was. they met, but it was not a
10:31 am
success. king bounded churchill drinking in thene at 11:00 morning. it was not impressed. he received great success in solving labor issues. this came to the attention of teddy roosevelt. increase of numbers of the japanese and in and sit -- united states. the results of the meeting was a request that can intercede with the british government, which had a friendly relationship with the japanese government. to put pressure on japan. in that regard. king sale to england.
10:32 am
reducedlt was a much flow of immigrants. his diary showed that his opinion of churchill had much improved. he wrote, "one cannot talk with them without being impressed with the nimbleness of his mind, his quickness of perception and his undoubted ability to go that same year, he was elected a member of >> king lost his seat. 1914,he coming of war in the almost 40-year-old king was
10:33 am
an unlikely candidate for the military. another prospect soon presented itself, however. his impressive record involving labor disputes came to the attention of the rockefeller -- wasion, which would involved in serious and bloody disputes in colorado. to join asvited director of research. year, salary of $12,000 a substantially good in those days. king solved the colorado dispute and later worked for other u.s. companies, such as bethlehem steel. general electric. standard oil. he returned in 1919 to contest the leadership and was successful. two years later, a general
10:34 am
election was held. was ineral a party office and king without prime minister. nine months later, september 1922, in the form of the colonial minister, winston churchill, the question was of possible military action against the turkish army. king responded that the request be considered by canada's parliament. noever, the king had intention of exceeding to the request. with a further 172,000 wounded, and a population of just 8 million, the king of the people would not stand for further shedding of blood.
10:35 am
but ittter blew over, was clear that canada could no longer continue in a subservient position. when britain declared war on germany in 1913, canada was automatically at war. to changeetermined the basis of the relationship. 1923, thect in british foreign minister put forward a resolution that when the foreign minister spoke, he spoke not just for britain, but the whole of the empire. countries such as australia and offeredand agreed and britain protection, but king and canada disagreed. king won the day, and it resulted in the balfour
10:36 am
declaration which stated that areed kingdom and dominions autonomous communities within the british empire. wayl in status and in no subordinate to one another. aspect of domestic or internal affairs. king's liberal party lost the general election held in 1930. government hade to deal with the great depression. the little party reelected in 1935, and king became prime minister. met withwing year he churchill in london. was neverld britain in greater danger. she insight, five years
10:37 am
would be a vassal state of germany. supported -- supportive of churchill's efforts, and with his background negotiations, he supported the appeasement wealthy of neville chamberlain. in may 1937, king was in london for the coronation of king george. and he met with the ambassador. ribbentrop had worked in the first world war. and ribbentrop suggested king meet with hitler that was arranged in june 1937. king went to the hindenburg palace. king recorded the conversation in his diary. it makes for astonishing rating. -- reading.
10:38 am
quoting from king's diary, to say youuesday -- have no fear -- no need of fear of war with germany. remember that i myself have been through a war, and not one of us wants to see another war. king was obviously impressed and relieved by hitler's statement. thats credit, he did say if britain was attacked, canada would come to britain's aid. whether that made any impression ithitler's is not known, but made an impact on his future decisions. 1939, britain 3, declaring war on germany, king broadcast to the people of canada. "the forces of
10:39 am
evil have been loosed on the world. call on canadians tonight in a to protect all that makes life worth living. and to preserve for future generations those liberties and institutions which others have decreed to us." on september 9, canada's parliament passed legislation declaring war on germany. war, one thing to be at and another to be able to wage war. 1939 was totally unprepared. however, deficiencies were quickly remedied. agreedember 26, canada to be a training ground for
10:40 am
airmen from britain, australia, new zealand, and canada. it achieved spectacular results. trained and pilots canada assuming three quarters of the cost of $1.6 billion. president franklin roosevelt remarked that canada was protecting democracy. a general election was held in canada where kings liberal party won in a landslide. complete andt sincere congratulations on his victory for a common cause. when churchill became prime minister in 1940, king sent him a telegram assuring him of his
10:41 am
wholehearted support and cooperation of canada and his government and himself. wewhich he said, quote appreciate your guidance in these critical affairs at the most critical in hours. they felt the united states had to join the allies. in the spring of 1940, president roosevelt was far from convinced that britain would survive. illustrated by secretary of state cordell hall requesting dominion toneup the bring pressure on britain not to make a soft piece with hitler's. given that britain was to be defeated, the british fleet to ports in the
10:42 am
north american hemisphere. king wrote to churchill, explaining the united states concerns. the following day, churchill responded, pointing out that if the united states would win the war, the fleet will be transferred from the clutches of germany. but if the united states continue to be neutral, and britain was overpowered, he could not sell a policy would be adopted by a pro-german administration. king forwarded churchill's response to washington. andless to say, roosevelt hull were most concerned with churchill's attitude. they found alarming and distressing. they asked him to continue a dialogue with churchill given
10:43 am
the dubious reason not based on american plan to say the british empire. king was uncomfortable at being the link in the correspondence. here's your churchill of canada's continued support. churchill of canada's continued support. he said in a broadcast, i speak of the heart and mind of our country when i say that every inrth in canada -- port canada will be another calais and every harbor another dunkirk. to be extinguished by the powers of evil will yield liberties to the tyranny of not see brutality. -- nazi brutality.
10:44 am
the following month the attitude of roosevelt changed after churchill's actions. keeping the fleet out of hitler's control. the president without determined -- was nowa support determined to provide support with 40 destroyers. this action was welcomed by kaine -- king. ofre was a joint board representatives from the united states and canada to devise strategies for ensuring halfction of the northern of the western hemisphere. what became known as this agreement agreed that the united states would help protect canada's territory.
10:45 am
roosevelt were in constant medication. at thel 1941, president's home, they met in hyde park. britain was basically bankrupt shortage of serious u.s. dollars. king suggested a form of barter. manufacture munitions for the u.s. in exchange for the purpose -- purchase of american war materials. while roosevelt was initially against the agreement, thinking it might go too far, something manufactured in canada or the united states could be glenn least to britain. however, the concerns were overcome and the hyde park significantwas a achievement and ended canada's
10:46 am
financial difficulties for the remainder of the war. in 1941 king broadcast to the people of written. -- britain. courage and your determination to fight to the end. may i send to you warmest ofetings and remember to what has been a valued friendship for many years. to us, you are the of britain inn this, our greatest hour. churchill responded the next day to the people of canada, and this included, your comradeship , cheersmortal struggle and fortifies the people of these islands. it must seem strange that canada, free from all of the
10:47 am
pressure, some thousands of miles away, should it hastily forward into the battle against evil forces of the world. the people of great britain are proud of the fact that the liberty they have one through that long and romantic history should have taken root throughout the length and breadth of the content from halifax to victoria. britainthe king flew to and spoke at a dinner. thetarted by speaking of commitment of the british people, and especially londoners. he then addressed churchill. by the power of your eloquence, the energy of your conduct and the genius of your leadership, you galvanized this people into
10:48 am
heroic action. rarely equaled and never excelled in the history of warfare. king concluded with a familiar theme. it was necessary for the united states to be a full participant. states entered the war in december 1941. churchill arrived to discuss strategy. he then traveled to ottawa to address the canadian parliament. as the globe and mail reported. with a big cigar and smiling broadly, churchill, the emperors -- empires great war leader, arrived in the dominion to receive a welcome which he will remember to his dying day. his speech to the canadian parliament --
10:49 am
portrait resulted in one of the most famous photos. interestingly, churchill later told king that he did not like but king kept a low profile. in december 1942, he addressed the pilgrims of new york. he took the opportunity to point out the contribution canada was making in the war. he gave many statistics on the canadian war production. many facts were difficult to assimilate, one statistic was easily understood. supplying 200 pounds of food for every man, woman, and
10:50 am
child in the united kingdom. content to let roosevelt make the major war decisions. canada accepting. notver, when canada was given recognition into in k's, communiquesasion -- about the visions of sicily and france, he reacted in fury. war, a generalhe election was held in canada. the conservative opposition built its campaign on the criticism of the handling of the war effort. king spoke of prosperity and want a clear victory.
10:51 am
-- 947 he dined with churchill, and his opinion changed. he said, i confess that as i looked at him across the table, i felt that perhaps he was the greatest man of our time. deteriorated,th retired in the summer of 1948. after 21 years as prime minister. records and still is a for longevity of a prime minister in all of british and commonwealth history. king died in 1950. 1952,uary the 14th, winston churchill spoke at a dinner in ottawa. lifelong commitment
10:52 am
with him and shared by great with all canada and the whole free world at his death after so many years of faithful and skillful service to the great causes which we uphold today. thank you. [applause] >> thank you for your kind introduction. i think my mother would have been delighted. my brother would have been amazed. you might imagine there is a lot of ground covered here. you'll find all not always be content on the fly. listen to my individual comments with your active listening antenna.
10:53 am
are we going or not? go ahead, sorry. >> you though. >> thank you, john. in some 50 years this year since publishing his diary and creating an uproar. son, try to do something about it, although he died a couple of years ago, publishing is father's work in two volumes.
10:54 am
19421945, andears in 2006, covering the years 1945 to test with several additions, and a rewriting of the last five nsa,ers of the book were one of the few pages of getting the word decrepit. said when his father died he wanted it to be regarded as a viable source of understanding the doctor and his patient. and that controversy be put to rest. out introversy played many different ways and the correspondence concludes with trying to defend himself in this way. simply, if you do not understand
10:55 am
turtles health issues you do not understand turtles last 25 years of his life. --s portrait integrated completed in 1921. friend lord his brain. have saidtractors this yields much about his character and is thought to be somewhat cunning. and yes, some 75 years since churchill met him or he met churchill, he met his way -- how hes way wondering would take care of them and discuss things with them. eventually, churchill made the comment, i don't know why anybody bothers. this is ridiculous.
10:56 am
that is not entirely true, of course. hand, a publication about his medical issues has several harsh words to say about moran. not conducting a physical examination and is first visit. he goes on to state moran was a master of spin, at the center of events. who pushed moran onto churchill? his friends were patients of moran in his private practice. problems and had the notion that churchill had a week just.
10:57 am
-- chest. social did not like either of these gentlemen. you had a lot of things besides dyspepsia. moran got a full accounting of all of these issues. so what was this week just -- chest? had pneumonia in 1896. was because the school was on a hill. you can read this as i go along, these comments. moran was interested in becoming a writer before his father insisted he had to go to medical school. he did go to medical school.
10:58 am
i think the most interesting correlation here is the remark that moran made about himself because churchill wrote in his biography of marlborough, famous men are usually the product of an unhappy childhood. certain pressures and certain instances -- circumstances. in early years. wit,enacious mother without which great actions are seldom accomplished. so what of his personality and character? him.t some insight to he served in the first world war and was interested in these people from the front coming to be examined.
10:59 am
he catches on that maybe -- i beg your pardon, that something else is really going on here. he is researching poisoning with mustard gas. he gets the sense that maybe something is going on. the ravages of war, the sense that there is a series of fact. -- a serious effect. now we understand ptsd. churchill toget help with his book to get it published. unfortunately, moran was mistaken.
11:00 am
declined, saying it might hurt recruiting. this psychological nonsense. this was a shadow of his black dog. the black dog, one of the things that upset people most was the first time, what they bought the first time was this black dog stigma. some may remember churchill's descriptions of psychiatrists. they capable of doing an immense amount of harm. the tightest hand should be kept over them. believe aboutran this business of his black dog? is this more than just in fact a
11:01 am
reaction to circumstances and ambition? suffice it to say -- his son randolph was eloquent in his interviews about his father's mood swings. probably for the most part that he did, just a couple of comments highlighted in red here. in 1937ted on churchill , a pioneer in surgery. he was doing a hernia. he was faxing on his patients before churchill in 1947. ofexpert in the use
11:02 am
medication was long in to consult on pneumonia in 1943. his vital role is not mentioned in the diary. diary he wasn't exactly the nicest about his colleagues. diaries, thetreet comment that moran is vain, egotistical. shrewd, but often not always right. he did have some good friends. lord richardson -- richardson was a cardiologist. here he is with his wife dorothy, great friends of lord richardsons wife. his daughters --
11:03 am
well, this is a particular interest. people saying churchill had a heart attack. moran is on his own. he is in washington, the white house, december 1941. churchill caused the next the next- calls morning and says i have a pain in my right arm. moran says, ok. concluded by the description that churchill had indeed had a heart attack. he said, you have to rest. this was before congress, giving a talk. and then another talk. and so churchill rested.
11:04 am
so possibly he did not have a heart attack. notes inparkinson's says he did diary, not. your ekg shows no damage to your heart. imbalance in your heart . idea a lot ofs an people have had. sorry, i should have shown that slide. of course, it leads to the myth
11:05 am
had a weak heart. yet to have medications for his art. only time he really had was when he had double pneumonia and his heart was in the failing. -- indeed failing. so the last 25 years, those medical issues, these are pretty straightforward. along,ily had this, all they felt churchill had something wrong with him, they first called lord moran. there are a lot of other things you did not mention in his book at all. -- lord moran did not mention in his book at all.
11:06 am
exception in found not27, saying i more than one would expect. you have heard a lot about the various medications churchill was given by lord moran. churchill commented, i don't think he invented it. bills in a pill box and took them when he felt he needed them. when it was a red day he would find the red. or green he would find the green. the collection is in the university of charleston and south carolina. i just messed up again. i am sorry. hit that. i get it. i get it.
11:07 am
the one interesting thing that moran gave was amphetamines. remember, june 1953 he had a stroke. -- woody is, with fuzzy brain be able to pull it off. well, just before, two days before, he gave them amphetamines. my, it hasaid, oh cleared my head greatly. presentation, a spectacular performance. he was spotted smiling and laughing. -- his son-in-law, i'm not sure you can see in the that his very anxious father-in-law would pull it off. character? moran's
11:08 am
he was trying to get things , making sure they got more money than other practitioners. angry when he was able to succeed in that. he demonstrated outstanding political skills. there was deviousness and untrustworthiness, and so he got a nickname. this dog jim the rest of his life. lady sybilip by richardson, he said when i put pen, i trust in these conversations i've forgotten no one. the diary of course is not a diary. it has an omission of certain critical events. events are2, certain
11:09 am
completely inaccurate. some are written out. so they were reasons for many to be upset with the publishing of the book. 1967,hed as a diary in surprising churchill. comments which i do not think churchill would appreciate, the most difficult man to work with. i would not have missed a chance with working with them for anything on earth. great britain after churchill's august -- she was known to have been a close friend. book, tone of her
11:10 am
of thismight be said from some degree, i think you get out aboutmad as get the book being published. read the book you get some sense, a supporter in no uncertain terms of winston. so that upset with the book being published. biographer said he compromised the work with his first volume. the rest of the family felt the smartest and stigmatized. colleaguesal published a book in 1968, action
11:11 am
on working with churchill. errors andbout the inaccuracies. and the medical association. the bma. the upset with the release of confidential information. the journal of society of criticizing the notion of revealing things in a confidential manner. ok. what do others finally conclude? one professor political science
11:12 am
question, the topical whether the average is the decisions -- physicians account or the weakness. this is from a year ago. ofy look at the issue confidentiality. it isll is said and done, the first one that broke the code on the issue of confidentiality. is that the last word? i don't think so. the gracious lady said she understood how he understood winston thoroughly. not only the medical considerations, but also fully aware of the implications in regards to the office he held and condition. i think churchill should have
11:13 am
the last word. he relied heavily on board more , saying youmoran get me going for so long. and that he lived another five years. moran himself claims churchill opens his heart and felt better for his candor. it may have disturbed his family. moran's revelations opened up the possibility that churchill was human after all and worthy of admiration and honor. not the clay feet, his reputation undiminished. thank you for your attention.
11:14 am
[applause] >> thank you very much. thank you to all three of the presenters. that gives us about 15 minutes or so for questions and, of course, answers. hand, andraise your have a question, that is excellent. to directed toke a particular speaker, please do so. >> thank you. i would like to ask a question about the atomic bomb. you mentioned the breakdown of the relationship. but you do not have a chance i guess to talk about what happened with the u.s. and its relationship after the war. you mentioned a joint agreement signed. that bohray perhaps was too idealistic, was
11:15 am
churchill to idealistic to think the united states would share atomic diplomacy? thank you. >> can you hear me? can you hear me now? no? yes? ok, right. it is a good question. conclusion that as somebody who loves america so well, sometimes i felt churchill did not always understand the american rules of government. and constitutional. there were two critical agreements with as much anymore. one in 1943 in quebec. a very important one. a mutual agreement that bomb will not be used unless both
11:16 am
america and the u.k. agree. that is one. the other is september 1944, the one i shared on the slide. churchillboth fdr and continue atomic collaboration going into peacetime. was not until after wartime, what happens after 1945, the fdr is dead and churchill out of office. u.s. congress has a nationalist stance and decide whatever wartime agreements existed were immaterial. unconstitutionally . but the executive agreements hammered out in wartime did not standing in the peacetime. churchill is bereft.
11:17 am
he is aghast. in 1951, yet back this burning desire. suspects that the mcmullen act would not have been passed if he was in power, and it is an effort to protect themselves from the government of the u.k. to thetries to get back old thinking. i think the idea where if you read, you are aware of these very billion h-bomb speeches, -- brilliant h-bomb speeches, and the house of commons where he is coming up with mutually assured destruction, he is coming very the end ofbracing his career.
11:18 am
i hope that has answered in somewhat your question. is it good? let's go to the gentleman closer to the front on the side of the room. >> good morning. this question is directed to john. from you hear non-churchillian's, i've never heard this from a churchill in, that winston was a drunk. we all know the famous quote that he said something to the effect that he gets more out of alcohol that alcohol out of him. reviewing a lot of the medical information regarding winston churchill, is there any indication that he had any of the mental problems related to alcohol consumption? >> i tried to leave that out. [laughter] >> is a pretty interesting
11:19 am
question actually because clearly he imbibed a lot of alcoholic beverages and handled it very well. all -- alcohol does more to process the alcohol as you buy more and more. rarely drank outside of meals. whiskeydid, he had this that lady mary showed me one day, taking a large glass and filling it with ice, maybe a mble full and keeping it all day. so the question is, was he
11:20 am
really alcoholic? the answer is, we only know of s-canned.hat he got that was in moscow. they were plying them with alcohol. churchill -- eden and churchill were drinking the ivanka when he was drinking water. the otheralk out and role of being security advisor, he walked down the street. that is the only time i know of with an eyewitness to the fact he was an alcoholic. reported inrson being drunk in new orleans. the time he probably
11:21 am
wobbled out, taking his afternoon nap. he thought he was drunk. i don't think he was drunk. >> and to say, that advice on alcohol consumption may be the most encouraging thing i have heard in some time. let's go to the back of the room. i would like to start by saying how much i personally appreciate the canadian arrival in england in 1940. the first canadian division arrived, they were the only group of troops we had to defend us. them in ourer kitchen. lollipops and american comics like little orphan annie.
11:22 am
the question i would like to ask, at the end of the war, i believe the canadians paid britain a debt. other to ask, if you know, how much that was in financial terms. >> i'm not sure exactly the amount. i'm not sure exactly how much they gave. the total amount that canada was 3.2 billion dollars. given for the manufacture of andstuffs and machinery military equipment. the rest of the war, as you probably know, united states and loan at 2% a interest of $5 billion.
11:23 am
seven or eight years ago the loan was paid off. the $2.8 billion loan was paid off. loan.0 billion i do not see about the loan to canada. not throwing the flag around too but the united states as 10 times the population of canada. mathematically, canada. three times as much. -- paid three times as much. >> i think we have time for one more question. i saw gentleman in the very back there. thiswould like to direct to the gentleman about churchill and the bomb. and i would like to hear your soviets about how the
11:24 am
union viewed the process at that time. the simple fact is that the teens, 20's and 30's were many conferences, some of which were sovieted with both scientists and western scientists interacted and there was a cross-fertilization of ideas. west to thet the assumption the soviets knew nothing about these matters was really in retrospect totally incorrect. the soviets were very sophisticated, they were behind in the engineering and how to construct the bomb, the theoretical aspects of it they had mastered. forward, from mutual assured destruction, the fact is that in peacetime alone there have been a thousand lastar detonations in the four or five decades. i bought the soviets and our
11:25 am
scientists came to be very concerned about not just mutual assured destruction but extermination of life on this planet. a large number were brought to the surface, devices detonated at the same time. out, it was the green party of the russian orthodox church that convinced them with the strategic defense initiative to go ahead and proceed and accepting the salt treaties. this is a fact not commonly known, that the russian orthodox church played a role in that. >> very briefly, all those points are very well made. i am very interested. the firstmment about point. you can call it tragic
11:26 am
incidences of the 20th century history that the discovery of nuclear fission, chain reaction, really occurred in a certain year called 1939. with the world war looming at the end of that year. things what propels forward thereafter. the international republic of of 2 septemberea 1939, it is estimated something like 90 serious papers published , you name it,ld and when all of the internationalization of knowledge grinding to a halt with the war, when it starts, the genie is out of the bottle. hr, theypeople like bo knew that this thing, if it
11:27 am
works, would not be just an aggregation of tnt and so on. they knew that this was a potentially apocalyptic development and it would be very naive to assume that the soviet union or anybody else for that matter that access to this would not at some point in the future get this thing. hr was, yes, wartime, in favor of wartime use, but it is what you do afterwards. to that extent, churchill, rightly or wrongly, refused to take it. but your point is made. i appreciate it. >> thank you very much. i think we all know what we need to do after this panel, step outside for some coffee and return here in a few minutes. so let me close by saying thanks to all three panelists. [applause] >> i just want to thank all the
11:28 am
thelists for reaffirming brilliance of the program chairman of this conference. [laughter] >> we will take our first break of the morning and resume probably around 10:45 a.m. >> we continue without coverage of the 33rd international churchill conference held recently in washington, d.c. next, historian andrew roberts, who talks about the sensitive side of british prime minister winston churchill. this is about 35 minutes. >> i'm very much enjoying my first experience at the international churchill conference, and i'm very pleased


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on