team are concerned, it is important to do something about , so as to a minimum prove that the u.s. is not a ," as mao had been saying. and most importantly, to demonstrate american resilience in the cold war. if you don't take anything else out of this lecture, remember this, the vietnam war was never about vietnam for the united states. it is about the larger cold war. it is about the credibility of the presidency, the credibility of the united states, the credibility of the entire american system. announcer: watch the entire program on "lectures in history," tonight at eight p.m. and at midnight eastern, on the at c-span3. next on the civil war, william marvel explains the economic

factors driving many northerners to volunteer and fight. he is the author of "lincoln's mercenaries, economic innovation durin by union soldiers during the civil war. ." >> good afternoon, i am peter carmichael, director of the civil war institute and also a member of the history department. it is my pleasure this afternoon to introduce william marvel of new hampshire. the marvel has published more than 20 books in the field of civil war history and it is truly remarkable, when you consider the fact that he does original research in the archives. he gets his hands dirty! better thank you probably do any research on the internet, maybe

just a little bit. no?oquito? >> [indiscernible] peter: what he just said to me, is that he does -- he goes and it digs into the original resources. many of you have read his books, they are all quite good. but one "andersonville" won him the lincoln prize. he has written more books on lincoln, appomattox, and he just finished a book called "literary soldiers," to be published by lsu. he is currently working on a biography on fitzjohn porter, hopefully to be published by usc press. one thing we all know about him and his writing, is that he is a contrarian. he takes something that is a well-established thought within our field, and he often turns it

upside down. so you can count on a talk that will crack open a new perspective on an often tired subject. you can also can't but his books, as well as his talks are eloquent. his writing, of course, i think is some of the best in our field. it is a real pleasure to introduce bill marvel. [applause] bill: well, good afternoon. i hope you all can hear better than i could. think some of you out there may be old enough to remember the last time i was here, a few of you. as pete indicated, it was because i had written a book about andersonville.

this time, i am here because of really.r, the worst editor i ever had until i got into the newspaper business, was an assistant editor at the state historical societies quarterly journal in my home state. i had published a number of and the in the journal, director of the society, who became a friend of mine, had done all the editing himself. are tontually, the work be a little too much for him, and he hired an assistant. the first manuscript he ever gave her, was one of mine. he told her something about me in an introductory way, that he ,ound interesting, he told her

this fellow is a carpenter, but he writes history. i would have reserved the emphasis on those >> occupations, but -- emphasis on occupations, but she basically felt that she had a better literary style that i did. she did not know a great deal about editorial etiquette to go she did not send the manuscript back to me before she published it. consequence, i didn't know anything was wrong until i opened the complement to the copies and began to read. and began to notice some strange punch ration, missing here, not necessarily there, some vocabulary are don't think i , and ever have used interpretation now and then that i would've had a little difficult time defending, and finally, some factual errors created by the editing process.

i had put a great deal of energy into that particular article. it represented several years worth of research and several weeks of active analysis of the evidence that i drew from that research. agitated, butttle i handled it in a professional fashion. i went into my closet, got my portable typewriter out, slammed it on the kitchen table and began pounding out a letter to my friend, the direct to, who are thought, had butchered my article -- the director, who i thought had butchered my article. it make you a degree of in that to my exasperation that the carriage lock stock, and instead of sending the carriage flying across the typewriter, i sent the typewriter flying across the

kitchen, where it broke the dog dish in the corner. i didn't have another one, so i finished it off, cleaned it off and put the paperwork back in after i loaded it out. but one of the paper drips had had broken, so the paper started skidding sideways out of the carriage with each carriage return. but i finished it, and i had a little space in one corner were a good sign it, so i put it in an envelope, hand addressed it -- my hand writing was still shaking, i can tell you -- then i sent it off. i keep copy of everything and a few years ago, i run across the letter.opy of that i recognized it immediately, because all the lines were hanging down like a broken phoenician blind. i read it, and i realized that ais anyone today received

letter like that, the first step would be to stop at the courthouse and file a petition for a restraining order, but, people did not do things like that in those days, they actually confronted people they had offended. he did, he wrote me a nice , as a psychologist would ,ay, he validated my complaint he explained what it happened, he apologized and said it would never happen again. and, it didn't. we went back to work, and we are still friends to this day. he retired not long ago from the indiana historical source society. when i go there to do research is a fit when they do, i call ahead, and we frequently have lunch. with the assistant editor did not last much longer however, at the journal. he never really told me who she was, but i think i deduced who it was. name, itled the right

would appear that she dropped out of editing and went into college administration. [laughter] you have to do something, after all. about now, you are probably wondering, what that has to do with what i am here to talk about today. the article that she butchered was the genesis of the book that i have coming out in november. get doney, when i with a subject, either an article or a book, i put it to this ride and it was onto something else. probably why i seem so misinformed when i'm asked to talk about a book i wrote three years ago and i cannot remember a dam thing about it. but, in this particular case, i was anxious to get this published in a way that would not embarrass me, and i tried for a row years, and this book ultimately came from that, although somewhat indirectly, as most things do. the article was an analysis of

andeconomic background investment patterns of union soldiers who enlisted from my hometown in new hampshire. i have been studying those men in particular since i was a child. at the age of 12, i found a register of new hampshire soldiers in the public library, huge books, a good five inches thick and a couple thousand pages. i went through every page, scrolling down with my fingertips, looking for men or in in or lived in conway. 13, i had military records of all men from my hometown. later, iew years discovered that after the national archives published the 1860 census in microfilm form, they sent the original ledger looks that the census was recorded in, back to the states

from whence they came. new hampshire choco went to the state library -- new theshire's went to state library in concorde. on theled across it stacks by accident, and after a couple of trips, i copied down the names and all the pertinent information from the 1640 people from my hometown. then i had the military records of all the soldiers, and i had the economic background of all the people. because >> of the questions asked on the 1860 census are, how much real estate do you own, and how much personal property to your own? all --course, it is reported by the individual himself, there is possibility for error. but on those occasions, when i've had to go to the town hall and look at the select records

from the 1860's, the census records, i have found the tax assessments run a parallel to what they claimed on the census, in most cases they seem to use tax assessments to assess, today owned. so i put -- how much they owned. so i put this information on index cards for each of the soldiers and again arranging them in different formats. ,irst, by neighborhood, then but economic status, then by military unit that they ultimately joined, and finally, by the dates on which they enlisted. without any analysis, i noticed fairly steady, gradual progression in the increase of wealth of the groups who enlisted at different. war.ds during the the poorest of the recruits. enlisted at the very out that.

not really men in some cases, but they were poor, the chillers, all working as from hands with no family in town. one of them was only 15 years old but has been on his own since he was 14 on the census, working as a firm hand and supporting himself. in those days, childhood did not last into the late 20's as it sometimes seem to today. 1861, youater, in started to get people might: but very for farms, or the sons of people who did -- farms, or very poor the sons of people who did. them, they had been prosperous farmers, but had been comfortable most of their lives until the panic of 1857. one of them, the 60-year-old,

over the course of a few years, cumulated 70 deaths that the 1860 -- a candidate is so many bts, that by 1860, he had to sell off putting much all he had to pay off his debts and was left with just a shack. be money seems to something there were interested in. neither one lasted in the army for long, they were all discharged, but they needed the applied for pensions. that was another indication, money meant something to them. the 62-year-old, although he was than the other one, he may have had another motive. he had been a widower for many remarried.e had just perhaps he found he had made a mistake and thought perhaps, camping out would be a good thing for three years.

had perhaps his wife discovered that she herself had made a mistake and decided to pound a little patriotism into him. but i think, money had something to do with it. thehe summer of 1862, enlistment consisted of sons of prosperous farmers, or young men who had really established themselves. 1863, he had older farmers, tradesmen, family man in other 30's or 40 years old, who had greater wealth than those who had gone before them, but the bounties were considerable by then, if you put them all together. the richman of conway, of which they were a few, at least were rich, by local standards, never enlisted at all, neither did their sons. but the wealthiest group on average to enlist, or those who went in as a gain late september of 1864. and there were several reasons found ithave invite

inviting been. for one thing, it was an enlistment for one year as opposed to three. another thing, the war was going well. captured,d just been a look as though things were winding down. there was a major though, which was the bounty. that town bounty was $800 in 1864 for a one-year enlistment. those who enlisted in 1863 for for threeot a $300 -- years, got a $300 bounty. and by the way, all of those men ind, those who enlisted september of 1864, all of them came one, except one of whom died of typhoid. none of them were thrown into battle. their names are still, not only

present in the community, but prominent. they came home with a lot of $800 bounty,ad the $50 from the state, a federal bounty, soldiers getting $16 a month, and up to $12 a month of family support from the community, ultimately guaranteed by the state. so in the course of that year which they did not serve, they served nine months, ultimately -- over the course of that time, you could earn $1300, which is about four years wages in that 1861, a laborer got a dollar a day. if you worked six days a week 50 $300.a year, you got the poor man from the hill districts who enlisted earlier on in the war, did not fare so well. the village of north conway -- i have to tell you about north

conway because i know many of you have heard of that tourist , that unfortunately, is in the same municipal township that i am in, so i have to pay the taxes for their exploitation of tourism -- that community provided two soldiers during the entire civil war. one of them was a short timer. both of them came home. . they represent about 4% of the eligible men in the village. districts, where people owned nothing were very little, the enlistment rate was about 24%. of those who enlisted, 30% died. their names are no longer on the tax registration rolls or the voter lists in conway. i don't know anybody in the town who has the name of any of those early soldiers, who was at all related to them. ,o it seems rather clear to me

that there was a connection between money and enlistment. it seemed obvious that the poor had carried the burden of the war, at least, in my hometown. b, it seemed that money had something to do with their enlistment. because, the poorer they were, the more the compensation appealed to them. read -- jim mcpherson had civil war soldier motivation about this time and he concluded that union soldiers enlisted primarily for patriotic motives and partially, for all touristic motives. patriotic meaning, they enlisted to save the union. all to a stick, and a few other motives that he deduced from reading a lot of manuscripts.

him theto him, i sent results of my local study. who know jim mcpherson must know, he is probably the most kindhearted person working in this field. although i was just a wood chuck the north country, he engaged in a little exchange, postal exchange with me on this subject. he suggested that people make life choices for a variety of reasons, that may be patriotism wasn't the sole reason some enlisted, that maybe all tourism wasn't, maybe money was not -- altruism wasn't, maybe money was not. he discounted the money issue. he said for instance, i am going off to speak in a couple of weeks, and i am getting paid for it, but i am not going because of money.

and my response to that, at least internally, was, well that is the difference between you and me, because if i don't get paid, i am not going anywhere. [laughter] but there are many differences mcpherson.nd jim for instance, i mentioned how kindhearted he is. but for many years, i supposed that perhaps, he was right. that maybe money was not the overriding issue, maybe it wasn't that much of an issue. but then, i started writing what i thought was going to be a book about the opening phases of the usual, i don'tas know when to stop what i'm doing, and before i knew it, i had a four volume history of the civil war from the union perspective. but that first volume involved the battle of balls bluff. and with any topic that i look into, i dive into the details. into twole say,

great an extent, but i don't think so. one thing i did was look at the rosters of all the people that fought in that battle. the first thing i noticed among the massachusetts regiments, which were numerous, was how on shoemakers there were the rosters. 24,regiment was composed of 25% shoemakers. another one had 30% of its roster consisting of shoemakers, another had 33%. about the same time, i run across a labor journal article about the shoemakers' strike of 1860. it was the largest single labor action in u.s. history before the civil war. it started in lynn, massachusetts, and ultimately spread around eastern massachusetts. estimated that about

half of what he supposed were 40,000 shoemakers, went out on strike. shoemaking at that time -- over 30 or 40 years -- had been transformed from a cottage craftsmanwhere craft whe made custom shoes for individuals to basically, forced labor. and in industrialized labor, the emphasis was on more production, but certainly not more compensation. shoemakers in 1860 were making $3.50 or more per week. the rent for a house for a family was three dollars a week. room and board was $2.75 per week. so whole families a lot of times, had to go into the shops to make a living.

was, they didn't have enough money to save any in strike strike so, the only lasted a few weeks and eventually, they went back to work. so they went back to work, and they lost all those wages. the shoemaking trade in those days used to have a slump toward the early autumn, then it would pick up late in the year, i suppose, when southerners would start buying shoes after going barefoot all summer. when westerners used to buy boots for the winter. but it didn't happen that year. -- therean election had been an election in a large percentage of the country, was o this really upset by the person elected -- was it viscerally upset by the person elected. if that was not their president, they were pulling out of the game.

any imagine anybody being that upset about an election? one of the things they did was stop doing business with northerners. they stopped buying goods from them, they stop sending con up sending kotten up there.ing cotton up the shoemakers were sort of the canary in the coal mine doing the little recession, they were the first to suffer when it nobody hired them back in the fall, but it was a fairly widespread recession. the textile industry in new england was impacted as well, manufacturing in new york and philadelphia was heavily affected. out in the west, you had a currency crisis. in those days, of course, individual banks issued all the money that you used. if you were living here in

gettysburg, you might have your pocket full of bills from the adams county trust, if there is such a bank, and perhaps, there is -- in the east, those banks used to keep gold on hand to aboutheir bills, usually 10% of whatever you had issued. out in the west, a lot of thanks are into eudora secured their issues on southern secured guaranteed or the money they issued on southern bonds and suddenly, those bonds did not look very good. they were worthless. as a result, nobody had an money to buy anything and if you have something to tell, you couldn't it.rid of and believe me, people had plenty to sell after the harvest of 1860. then, there was the simple issue of uncertainty. even today, we hear that uncertainty is the worst thing that can happen to business.

and it happened, then. nobodystopped investing, wanted to put any money out, even if they had good money. it seems to be quite a recession, that as long as i have been interested in the civil war -- and i can tell you a story that i have been, recognizably interested since i was five years old -- i have never read about this recession. so i started looking back through the classic histories that i had on the shelf. i looked at allan nevins. , he had the eight volume history of the civil war period, two volumes of which were devoted to the emergence of lincoln the surrounded this time period. in those 4000 pages, he spent one short our graph talking about what he called "the premonitory signs of a financial crisis." premonitory."

it hadn't happened. another historian what a look on 1950, and he in spent quite a bit of time on economics, a couple dozen pages i think, and he was focusing on the tariff issues. whatso was concerned about people feared what happened in the economy. he did say that there were some , but thatlowdowns turns out to have been a considerable understatement. as recently as 10 years ago, harold holster wrote a book about the period between the election and the inauguration of lincoln. although i did find a sentence in which he talked about the fear of a recession, there was no talk of a recession itself. so, i started looking back to the newspapers, from just before

the start of the war, which poredly i hadn't poure overmuch before. 1861,r began in april 12, and before that, nothing really seems to matter. but when i started looking at madrid 1860 and 1861, looking specifically, at evidence of economic turmoil, it was pretty hard to miss, it was all over the place. the new york journal of commerce, i have a couple of quotes here. three weeks after the >> it was all over the place. the new york journal of ommerce, i've got a few quotes here, the new york journal of commerce, three weeks after the lection, said that 25,000 factory workers in new york city jobs as a ost their

crisis.of the cheshire republican had an article entitled "hard times." "hard times" keeps coming up up in newspapers during this period. he complaint was general throughout the country that the times are hard and are daily growing worse. t's probable that before the winter closes most of the manufacturing establishments in new england will suspend of ations and thousands laboring people will be thrown out of employment. on the other per side of the state two days later, in a town that was both a making town and a shoe town reported that the workmen generally towns are without employment. this is january 4. and there seems for them a prospect for the remainder of the winter. the "philadelphia inquirer," 22, 1860, 1861, said

40% of the factory workers in that city were either out of working enough to support themselves. and that continued, would you xpect the material production for the war would kind of that tart the economy but didn't happen immediately. there was so much backlog of inventory that it didn't happen some time. in rhode island, which was the heavily ortionately industrialized state in the they were hit particularly hard. that was a state where 55% of were so poor they claimed no income. the median income for rhode island in 1860 was zero. three months passed, they have not been able to earn more than

$3.or most have earned but little for the last eight months. that's ck eight months, the election. that re is your evidence there was a recession. so when the shooting starts and they start asking for troops who is going to enlist? what are all of these unemployed people going to do? they are going off to war, and sure enough, the randolph county winchester, indiana, n may 16, 1861 reports, the army furnishes employment for many, and the indianapolis daily on july 6 says that men without property, business, or make wart are ready to their permanent calling. beards town, illinois, was a river town. it was on the illinois river, and river traffic had been dead long time. as of the end of april, there was an effective blockade, efore that, there was a voluntary blockade. here were no goods going down

river because there was no one buying them, no passengers coming up the river. travel, no reason to and the editor of the beards own paper, who obviously wrote exactly as he spoke, apprised local fellow at a was recruiting for the war and great many e is a men out of employment who might as well take a little trip as not. the pay of volunteers has been increased and there is now more clear money in that business other that we know of. that certainly was true. communities were adding to the money that you could get from the army. the state of vermont agreed on, i think april 26, 1861, to pay vermont soldier, everyone who enlisted in a vermont regiment, wherever they were pay, which was raised to $13 in august. september of 1861, the

ermont herald reported that aside from all considerations of duty and patriotism, no business so well as soldiering nowadays. per month from the date of enlistment and all expenses paid despised in these hard times. indeed it wasn't. a month and get $20 keep as a farm hand. your evidence that the pool of unemployed people targeted for enlistment. evidence that me people were either enlisting or ot enlisting because of the money. out in indiana, a young fellow to a woman named miriam asen said, on july 11, 1861,

long as i have work to do, i shall not go, but if i run out and they want more men, then maybe he would enlist. one of the most interesting collections in this regard that of ve come across is that hugh carlisle. it gives you an idea of the views that veterans had of their service years what they pposed to thought at the time. kyle lyle left both an original journal and a andwritten memoir in his papers. he was an 18-year-old compositeor in the newspaper business. walkedout of work and he all across ohio looking for jobs. from springfield to mount ernon, stopping at every newspaper to ask, do you have any work? maybe t he could get was a meal and an offer to sleep for the night on the couch in the office.

walked all the way into northeastern ohio. finally he found a job for five but it was a five-week job, probably until some fellow 90-day service returned, and when it was up he had to leave. be n, there was nothing to had. finally, he enlisted. from his t you get journal. from the memoir, he wrote robably four decades later, he explained that he didn't enlist at the very outset. e almost apologized for it because he said he was afraid his father would not allow him enlist, give him permission. well, it's true that young men basically the property of their fathers until they were really think his father wouldn't have given him permission? he let him walk all over ohio money looking for work. and for that matter, you think needed his permission? i think of that 15-year-old kid hometown. about in my

here's another one, alford heeler, from connecticut, originally, left home at the age of 15 looking for work in hartford. find it. wrote back to his brother and said, is there anything back in town yet? there wasn't. he went to new york. nothing there. went to philadelphia. nothing there. 1861, he writes to his mother, still 15 years old. i enlisted, he said. when i left home i had not the least idea of it. would try to get employment. ot finding any, i decided enlist. there was a young carpenter in new rnando davis hampshire, who enlisted and then it.ed to sell his brother on privates have $13 per month and keep as they get their well, food, clothing, housing, as well as pay.

the state gives $10 when you're into service and at the end of the war the government gives you a hundred dollars so pay is inducement enough without any other. lenty of people thought that way. there is a fellow from central new york who went out to iowa to make his fortune. skylar coe, his name was. he went out to council bluffs, and he stayed there a month, he mother. he liked council bluffs very much. stayed a month intending to get into some kind of business but everything was dull and promised to remain so until war was over and i concluded to enlist. so there is your evidence that enlisting for the money. appealing to them. like towas mentioned, i base my research on original contemporary

resources, not memoirs. memoirs.eally trust i'll use them if there is they g else, but i think should be taken with several salt.s of but the manuscript material that we have, although there are collections across the country, they are not that representative of the union army a whole. i mean, let's say there were 20,000 collections of union manuscripts. etters and diaries, not counting memoirs. that's quite a few, and, as all this research find, there is always more to be found. it's still only reflective of, at most, 2% of the union my estimate, more like 1%. -- ll those people who have who enlisted from my hometown, over the course of more than

i have never , found a single letter or diary rom any of them, so how representative is that manuscript trove? probably not very much. so you need something else, and that something else is statistical information, and i too. that, i'll go into that very briefly, should if someone appen to want to know about it afterwards. thanks to a project at the university of minnesota, i think i get it d, i hope right, integrated public use series, which did acer vayrynen of the 1860 census. to come up y able with median wealth for every state in the union. a very difficult calculation to make for an individual. with that survey of the 1860 census, it was possible.

i wrote back in i 1980s about my hometown, was only able to view average wealth and that's not very revealing. any n wealth divides population exactly in half into a poorer half, if it's economic, half.richer it doesn't necessarily mean you were poor or rich on either side certainly is a line of demarcation. then i started surveying the enlisted anies that from each state during each of seven recruiting periods during i started chasing each ll of the people on of those companies. there were close to 9,000 people involved, and i was able to find, i didn't find quite 2/3 of about 2/3, i was able to find, and i discovered union soldiers in those groups, which were upposedly the most patriotic

soldiers, they were the first to defend the flag, 66% of them the war came from the poorer half of the population. and at the very outset some of significantly e higher. in many states, 80% of the men in the first company were from the poorer population. new jersey was 89%. he figure is somewhat ameliorated by the nine-month troops and the hundred day heard of if you've those. there was a hundred-day drive in withthat was filled mainly rich people who wanted the of anteed rear echelon duty short term, and the majority of those regiments were composed of richer half of the population. fighting regiments were poorer half m the

of the population. what time 't notice pete started me here, it was supposed to be a quarter to what and that's sort of i'm working on. i was asked to speak for about 5 minutes, and i want to tell you, i brought a watch to be sure that i followed that watch , i haven't had a for years, because i work at home. i don't care what time it is. i never know what day it is. every day is the same to me, but didn't want, you know, to abuse the hospitality here, so i went out to my local hardware store and bought a watch last tuesday and i came home and my saw it and said, where did you get a and how much was it? i told her, and she reminded me that i had only recently said really need to cut back on expenses. well, i have lived with her long that i know how to defend myself and i said, this expense.iness

i need that for gettysburg so i and she to shut up said, well, then, it was a complete waste of money because wristwatch made with an alarm loud enough that that.ell you i'll ask with that, if there are any questions. jess particular lating -- oh, okay. on?s this yes. one question. mike from boston, massachusetts, of what ve any sense was going on in the confederacy related this kind of subject? thanks -- you mean in relation to the economics? >> yes, sir. i do, thanks to joe. similar study of confederate soldiers. many erates enlisted for

different reasons and much soldiers.from union from my own perspective, my knew is, and was before i about joe's work, that confederate money was worth so and the bounties were so small that it wouldn't have been much of an inducement anyway. which, they had much scription, and those people were, like it or not, defending their homeland, which had some impact on eople's enlistment, in the north, it didn't seem to have that much impact until they invaded pennsylvania. you got a few short term troops coming in. but they didn't have that threat quite so much. this is, as i say, it's analysis of union motivation. when i was working on that four volume history of the war, for

instance, a lot of reviewers, there are some reviewers i would get my hands on, but who are some reviewers have complained that i didn't what the problems were in the confederacy, but i wasn't riting about the confederacy and i'm not here either but oe -- has concluded as well that economics did not -- money of a pull much amongst confederates. okay. looking for raised hands, but now i'll go over here and he would ellow what like to ask. from charlestown, west virginia. to the extent that the federal government was like kind of army as a ining the way to earn money, in what ways they sort of get that message across? you mentioned that it came out

this is a good way to earn money, but was that recruitment posters? >> oh, yes. >> when i think of recruitment ones are very flashy and bright. >> yes. did y'all hear that? right. i had a hard time hearing it myself but i think i have it. the war progressed, the pica size of the type on the dollar value of the bounty grew. war became more unpopular bloodier, the dollar sign grew. it.'s the visual aspect of f course, the dollar value was increased as -- it became -- appealing,became less you know, they had saturated the oor, and enlisted as many of them as who were you going to go, and then they had to bump to get men in the

next economic strata. >> i was just wondering if the ps you have data about difference between native born to strial labor as opposed immigrant soldiers who enlisted in the army, who, many of them in that lower half of the economic -- is no, i didanswer not divide that way. you know, some regiments, you can look at, 42nd i think it was the new york, was heavily -- i'm 3/4 so i could say infested if i had done a study of their economic background, if it were possible. thing i did find was that ompanies that were made up

heavily of immigrants, irish and -- an immigrants, tended to i had less success finding them on the census. many cases it was because they were either transient during the census or come subsequently. i do know, though, that the city cradle of the abolition sent to germany, to laborers, to massachusetts, and they had who d to work for anyone employed them and they sent them keep ht into the army to from having a mans to go. that's as far as i've gone with that. although my survey was kind of numbers, it was really very rudimentary. house who ople in my have had a course in statistics are my wife and daughter. relied on them for a lot of the nomenclature involved, but i

expect others and hope others will look at the statistics a closely.ore my data, so-called, is supposed go on the harvard data website, and i just discovered is the form i have it in not acceptable, it didn't work. and so i'm going to have to it somehow to get it on. you.hank >> sure. >> jon huber from sarasota, florida, what happened to the bounties and what happened to amoluments? rose considerably because the draft was not meant to drag people into service. draft was meant to encourage volunteering. deadline kept moving ahead. in of the slipperiest people the lincoln administration kept -- the first thing he did

the nine-month put an vy of 1862 was 11-day deadline on it and then he started extending it, because idea was the local communities would pick up the so y to get these people in that those people in the community who didn't want to erve, which was, frankly, a majority of the people, would forced into e service. >> i'm wondering if you could factor and ge as a household wealth, because it seems to me that if the majority of these volunteers are young in their late teens and early 20s, they are not going to accumulate a to lot of wealth. inherited t have their parent's estate or purchase land in an agricultural ociety so it makes sense that they would not be all that well to do. >> that's true, and that's why i as opposed wealth to individual wealth. years old orwas 18

less, and lived at home, i wealth.his father's i also counted -- there were, in cases, the head of the the family dicated wealth. sometimes people in the family that. wealth to i did not count that while i was looking for the median figure deliberately, so as to bring the median lower. calculating s whether someone was below median income, if there was someone in household who had extra monday i added that in. conservative a estimate of it. whose fatherar-old owned, say, $2,000 in real the median, as concerned.as >> -- from pennsylvania.

the initiation of u.s. color roops in 1863 have any effect on any of your survey? black d not calculate soldiers. partly because, obvious reasons, for going that might have been economic, or probably not, and it was impossible to tell what their most cases, en, in in 1860. effect that they had mostly in dropping the substitute cost because they would take ess money but that didn't really factor into whether they enlisted for that, that reason. mostly it was the substitute brokers who were taking them.age of >> bill -- manville, ohio. surrogates or roxies, in my home state, the buckeye state, john d. rockefeller, i think, was he had 34 surrogates

or proxies, two questions. ho had the record for proxies in the civil war, secondly, how much would a proxy or surrogate, how much would that be? >> i don't know of any who hired i wouldn't e, so know what the maximum is. proxies you're talking about are either infamous s or the representative recruit, a representative recruit was, for forone who was not eligible the draft but wanted to lincoln had braham one. he was too old to serve. women often hired representative and these were people honesty and ed for sometimes they were veterans themselves. substitutes, most people hired substitutes so they would draft, at le for the least for the three years that that substitute enlisted. know.don't

as for the money, that rose, at war, ery end of the skyrocketed. major piece of evidence that the civil war was man's fight was the clause.tion the $300 commutation clause that prices down, e they had to compete with that commutation clause. if you were drafted you could $300 band out -- and be out of that particular draft. substitute you were good for three years. ubstitutes were $500 to begin with. $600. clause was mutation removed in i think june of 1964, charging a started housand, $1,100, $1,200,

$1,500. think templeton said, i it was in june 1964, when rich people suddenly realized, we may get a substitute and they got authorization to ire a substitute ahead of the raft, as sort of prophylactic protection from the draft and george templeton strong said he $1,100 for a big dutch which take his place, would make sure that every time strong complained about why men, they draft more wouldn't draft him. ma'am? >> was there any point when -- california, was there any point when the economy desertions rove and would go up higher? >> what was the last of that? the reverse kind of of what you're saying, if the economy improved? >> yes. fact, that's another reason

that the bounties had to start because when war production finally kicked in and jobs, started finding they didn't want to enlist anymore. in, i akers -- someone think it was december of 1862 aid, shoe makers in eastern massachusetts are making more than they ever have before, so they weren't enlisting anymore bounties had to go up. had more you exploitation of immigrant volunteers. missouri. st. louis, in going through some records, st. logical records in louis, i came across an ancestor had come over from germany in -- before the war. and some prominent citizens that lso enlisted at the same time,

and i was wondering, was there a incentive for people to enlist in the union army at that time? a citizenship incentive? >> yeah, you could become a citizen and bypass the process like that, in order to become a citizen? not that i know of offhand. if you were an immigrant, you were ineligible unless you applied for citizenship. he mere application for citizenship made you eligible draft. i don't know of any specific it certainly wouldn't hurt, but the main thing was money. money to enlist. and if you're an immigrant, with then maybe you want that. i don't know if i understand entirely.tion

>> for example, going through st. ist of enlistments, in louis, i came across august bush, who was a recent would not and money have been an incentive for him, so i don't know why he would and enlisted at that point that's why i thought perhaps, perhaps he could avoid the citizenship process and just a citizen.ctly with it was towards the end of he war, though, it was not early on. >> it was late in the war. >> late in the war. okay. missouri, early in the war, there was a great, a economic disruption, and i actually -- i don't know if i ave them here but i have some quotes from germans who enlisted in st. louis early in the war. have enlisted later, i don't know, i don't bush tough about august tell you. i don't drink beer, but if i did -- you u i believe you said

werish, didn't you? >> gin. i like gin. i don't know of any, no. see somebody creeping up on me. me.watch isn't telling are we out of questions? good, because i'm out of answers. thank you very much. [applause] civil war, the historian talks about the experiences of the men and women who fought with and supported john bell hood's confederate brigade. soldiers an itled the ies, she spoke at institute of summer conference, this is about an hour. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, whh