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tv   U.S. Japanese Perspectives on World War II  CSPAN  March 14, 2020 8:45pm-10:01pm EDT

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negotiations in washington dc leading up to the pearl harbor attack. we also hear from the grandson of a colonel who served as intelligence chief under general dwight eisenhower in the european theater. hauenstein center hosted the event. >> welcome to our c-span and grand rapids audience. i am the host of today's discussion. since 2003, the director of the hauenstein center for presidential studies named after colonel ralph hauenstein, whom we will be speaking of. i am joined on stage by two individuals for whom world war ii is no abstraction. to my right is the daughter of an ambassador. her father is remembered as the
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envoy who tried who she ate -- tried to negotiate peace while the japanese military was secretly trying to attack pearl harbor. her mother was american from new york city. she marriedwar ii, an american, worked in commercial real estate, and lived much of her life in the grand rapids area. one of her great-grandchildren is in the audience. theour far-right is youngest grandson of colonel ralph hauenstein. brian's grandfather is pressed known -- is best known as 's u.s. army officer and placesed paris of unbelievable horror.
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after the war, ralph discovered his vocation as an entre nous or and he is -- an entrepreneur and recognized as the father of goldfish crackers. in the private sector, he also became one of west michigan's lead philanthropists. it is more than the fact that his name is on buildings. spent most ofas his adult life in west michigan. he is the organization's senior advisor and serves on the hauenstein center's cabinet. brian's daughter is also in the audience, a recent graduate of the hauenstein center and soon will be taking a job in tokyo. congratulations, by the way. on a personal note, two things. one of the highlights of my life at the hauenstein center is when
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i introduced them over lunch and heard them share stories of their different wartime perspectives. two people who in a previous era might have regarded themselves as enemies, but now met as friends. weant to say that, in life, often seek one thing and find another. ralph became more than the center's figurehead. in the 12 years i knew ralph, he was a wide as advisor -- wise advisor and terrific and treasured friend. we met for lunch every wednesday in town. we met on saturday mornings over a cup of coffee. history, notarned only laughed at his sense of humor, not only experienced his gift of friendship, but also by
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his example understood what it is to become a better man. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome them. [applause] to begin our conversation, we should get to know your people better. if we could take four or five minutes each. tell us what you think we ought to know about your father, the famous ambassador. as a was primarily known person who founded an act, not a good idea according to my father, but the ranking japanese ambassador in europe. although he had no prior negotiating pact, was ordered to
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sign the agreement. the architect on the japanese side of the pact was unable to come to europe. they did not have the flights they do now. he wasn't able to attend. my dad was appointed to perform that task. unfortunately he didn't really care and more or less signed it under duress. the other thing he was possibly known for was he was a special import sent to washington to negotiate some sort of peace, avoiding world war ii. unfortunately it did not turn out to be successful. he regarded it as the worst part of his career, because it ended then and he wasn't successful in
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attaining his goal. as a result, the war came and he .ost his only son in the war >> thank you for that introduction. tell us more about your grandfather colonel hauenstein. >> he was eisenhower's chief of intelligence. that is where his world turned around in many ways. leading up to that point, he was stationed in iceland. ahead there wellahead -- of the troops in europe. [indiscernible] hello, everybody. [applause] -- [laughter] start.f you want to
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maybe i can start over. most notably, he was eisenhower's chief of intelligence. he was for a couple of years in iceland. wasing up further, he editor of the grand rapids herald. that led his path. the civilieutenant in conservation corps. expertise in being a reporter and military experience, all of those things culminate into the perfect person to work in an intelligence division. in iceland he was assigned to the intelligence division. people don'tmost
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know this, but we were already actively engaging with the germans. they were sinking merchant ships. we were shooting down planes. it was one of those planes they had shot down that they noticed a codebook was amidst the wreckage. there might be an image of that here. he took that codebook to the park. many know the story where they were in coding the german enigma. some rule of thought is that --e breaking was in part took place because of the codebook recovered during that time. he was in such turning points of
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the war throughout. one story, he arrived into paris. he was the first to arrive. as he is coming into town, all of a sudden, boom, bomb goes off. he is thinking he is under attack. the vehicle he was in backfired, so he was ok. [laughter] there are so many great stories to tell about the war. i could go on forever. i think i will save them for the after war experiences. >> both of your relatives involved in the war had a distinguished career of public service. it is interesting how they got to public service, because it was not a linear path. it would be interesting for heng people to hear how
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ended up in the diplomatic corps . owned aather shipbuilding company and apparently did some business with people from overseas. fact,t know if that was a but i suspect that might have been a factor in my father developing an interest in the rest of the world. immediately he made up his mind because the service immediately after graduation from university he entered the japanese foreign service. he, as a result, we were dragged, the whole family, all over the world.
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at times, especially when i got to my teenage years, i used to tell my mother, when i grow up, i am going to stay in one place. [laughter] was an interesting experience. in retrospect, i would have not missed it for anything. >> it provided your family with amazing experiences to see the world. >> it was difficult because my mother believed if you want to learn to swim, you put them in the water. was whatever country we arrived in, the first thing that was done was to put me in the local schools without knowing a word of the language spoken there.
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wasy enough, as a child, i able to pick it up rather quickly. i did not have to look at the children looking at me and saying things that i knew were bad things about me. >> tell us how ralph got to public service. his distinct military career was not obvious when he started out. wasirst, i should say he very much a religious man. his path was guided through his faith belief. between world war i and world war ii, he was smart enough to see we were not going to get out of this next round. age,nk that, from an early
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and i suppose he was in his early 20's at the time, he realized for the betterment of our country and himself -- in some ways, it sort of protected him because he went in as an officer rather than an enlisted man. there were opportunities that presented themselves. he pushed things along as well. he didn't just let things happen. public service after the war, the opportunity came to serve on eisenhower's committees. he was on the inner circle of washington. he took advantage of those opportunities. the jamestown foundation, served there for a number of years ensuring our country would be safe from communism. somewhere around 1961 all the notably,gh -- and most
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the first free russian elections, there he was with and the chief of intelligence and the like. his whole life was dedicated to country and family and to building business. all that tied together nicely for him. go ahead. >> both of these individuals had a real sense of what a nation needed. you can't have everybody always in the private sector doing their own thing. they knew the sacrifices public service entailed. both of them were in view with that grace to be able to do that . bit,nk you teased us a telling us what it was like to be a child of this famous
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>> tell us more about what it is like to be the child of somebody who is that high-profile, and right in the middle of so much happening in the world. burden. thing it was a somehow, ily age, knew that my behavior would have consequences, not just for my family, but possibly even, heaven forbid, for the country. something you either adjusted to all the movement and change of countries, or you just had to drown. mother'sly, due to my , if you cannot change it, go with it.
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becameer thing is that i older and was aware of things going on in the world. it became fascinating to be allowed, many times, to listen aswhat my father recounted, the result of something that happened. illustrate,, to what a diplomats job was, when i was three years old my father was posted to lima, peru. it was a. -- it was ainawa time when many okinawa citizens emigrated to peru and it was creating an issue. economic stresses, and the fact that there were so many who
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entered in such a short. of time. -- so quickly in such a short time. it was my father's job, as the lead up met in the country, to find a solution to this burst, this issue that had arisen. he was able to negotiate with , to haveian government made available a sparsely populated section of peru, since many of the people of okinawa were farmers. to relocate them to that land. they dispersed, the farmers, the okinawans, or doing what they were trained to do. and there was no more economic issue in the city. thingsre the kinds of that come at the time, i did not realize.
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i was only three years old. and listening to my father speak, or my family discussed, i became very aware jobhe fact that a diplomats was not an easy one, but a great opportunity to do good wherever they were posted. >> just a follow-up. did you feel you are watched, your behavior? pia: yes. i do not recall that anyone ever told me that but i definitely had a feeling that my behavior and especially in public-was rather important. to be good. >> what is so interesting about ralph is that he did not reveal all he had done in world war ii. when you are his grandchild growing up around him, maybe you hear some stories. but it is only in the letter
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part of the 1990's he starts to reveal who he was. mentioned the codebook earlier. let's put it on the table now. tense --bably saved tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of lives to be the first to discover that codebook and get it to the british, so the quebecers could start working on it hurt and churchill would end up saying, nobody could know we had broken that code. is too precious not to be surrounded by a bodyguard of lies. that was the saying that ralph put tell us. you find out as an adult who he is. interesting. as family we all knew he was in the military. we knew that he fought in world war ii. we knew his rank.
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but we did not understand to what extent he really contributed. breakers could start working on it. past d-days celebration -- 40 years. i'm not doing the math right. [laughter] i'm not a banker anymore. i think it was because washington allowed this thing to happen, to talk about the name a machine, the coating and so forth. coding,tarted -- the and so forth. he started speaking, at the ford museum and there was a piece in the newspaper. because he operated most of his life in the shadows, he was not very forthcoming with many of the answers we were looking for. but we would still hear stories over the dinner table. i was selling -- telling somebody earlier, the first time
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i brother and i were using chopsticks at his house he said i learned how to use chopsticks in paris, when i had dinner with kai - chiang cob,ther was corn on the we headed at the house. taught general molotov how to eat corn on the cob. ok. [laughter] >> the molotov cocktail. brian: i don't think those are tied together. [laughter] , as he aged,ating to hear the stories. many in the room have heard many of the great stories as well. but not those on c-span. he was also called up by the vatican to be a vatican observer.
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and he was deeply involved with the catholic church. i do not know how many popes he spent private time with. but he was very passionate about his faith. as was grace, his wife. one of the tricks i learned, anyone who learned new ralph, if you wanted him to open up and talk, get him a glass of for lundy a -- finlandia. on the second when he is ready to start telling his story. he would open up. let me ask a different question. environmentin an where japan was changing a lot. and you would go to western europe or south america. you had experience with different kinds of regimes. i'm sure that made you think a lot about what it is like to
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grow up in freedom and have an environment in which you are able to do what you can. tell us about your experience, though, when you went back to --an, for dark it had begun after it and began to change under tojo. pia: we spent three years in europe. we had left japan in 1936, and returned in 1939. europe, japan for seemed to be a fairly free and normal country. when we returned in 1939, such a dramatic change had taken place in the culture. that apparently fraternization between the sexes was very discouraged for some reason. i know not why.
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boy, who wasousin, the same age as i was. we went to the same school. had to go-there was a section in tokyo where there was one bookstore after another. they had different specialties. some specialized in certain countries' literature and so on. we needed to go to some bookstore to acquire a text for school. bookstoresed by the that specialized in russian literature. so i said to my cousin, i want to go in there and he said no, we do not want to spend the time, let's go look for what we need to look. he started to walk away. so i chased him and grabbed him. intog to get him to go this russian literature store.
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police kioskas a nearby. andpoliceman came out politely asked us to come into the kiosk. and i thought, oh dear, that is all i need. parents are going to read the paper and see this, that their daughter was accused of being unethical. [laughter] cousin, fortunately was ate fast thinking fellow. a fastunately, was thinking fellow. he said we are sorry, this girl is a student from the philippines and she has been here a short time, so she is not aware of the rules. and i really did not want to bring her down, but my mother insisted that i bring her down. to get this book that was necessary for schooling. [laughter]
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thing towas a great happen to me. anytime i got into trouble, i became a philippine exchange student. [laughter] lotthat took care of of a of awkward circumstances. [laughter] wasother thing that leadersing, i guess all have things they like to do, that they feel connects them to the people. general tojo what the prime minister of japan and he is the one who developed this very militaristic regime. his thing was to ride his horse every morning in various neighborhoods. if there were people there that
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he could speak to, he would stop and speak. there were a lot of media people following him. i was waiting for my bus to go to school in the morning when i heard this clap, clap. and i looked and thought, oh dear. [laughter] this will not bode well. quickly went-i was sitting on the curb waiting for my bus. and i got up and ran into the front yard of a house nearby. so that i would not have to be interviewed by mr. tojo. [laughter] shortat was how, in the three years that we were away, the total atmosphere and culture of the country had changed. amazing,hat rather that it could happen in such a short time.
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and ralph for to himself as a kid from the midwest. the prohibition midwest when he was really young. and he is called to iceland and then europe and he sees the contrast between what is happening in the united states and in the midwest, which had been isolationist. now he's confronted with tyranny and fortress europe. it changes him. it broadens his outlook. brian, would you talk about that? imagine, a west michigan native, born in fort wayne, indiana, but at a young age moved to grand rapids. very midwestern. to see what he saw with his own eyes and experience that, must have been a tremendous undertaking. he talked about-and you
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mentioned earlier-duck out concentration camp -- dachau concentration camp and the express he had there with the prisoners. -- experience he had with the prisoners. he is on the hunt for hitler's. he has been to the eagles nest. he is heading for berlin. as an intelligence officer you have reports from the field these things are going on. but there is never really any concrete evidence and so when he saw this firsthand, and the prisoners come up to him and he still had a scar on his hand until the day he died, 70 squeezed him so hard, they were so happy they were there. to see the stacks of bodies. and the horrific things that he did see. he interrogated that camp and his of dachau, sergeant next to him had all he
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could do to restrain him from doing the wrong thing and he realized that later, to shoot this guy on the spot. but it was an awful experience. >> all right. that segues into the next question i wanted to ask. your father, your grandfather, or really sensitive souls in a lot of ways. spentample, your father time in his youth in a zen temple, studying. a very spiritual man in addition to having a very sensitive soul. with so many of the difficult things that came up in world war ii? the atrocities, the war crimes? pia: he was very saddened. our member him telling us the story that his first post was in which was a major chinese
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port. a. when many -- it was a time when many navies traveled around the world and this port was one of the stops. many of the countries had consuls that represent their interest. my father said he was envied by all the rest of the consulates there because the japanese fleet would come in and the sailors lunch aroundir their middle and go sightseeing, go back to the ship. left he the ships had had no problems whatsoever. for many of the other consuls, they complained that when their fleet left, they left behind so many issues and complaints by the chinese government of misbehavior by the sailors. understandould not
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how the culture could have changed to the point where japanese soldiers were no longer -thating to the warrior -- theed the summer i, a very strict code of behavior by warriors. prevalent. by the time world war ii occurred, that had totally disintegrated. my father was so saddened to aink members of his country, country he represented for so many years, was capable of doing such awful things. crating atrocities.
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-- creating atrocities. heard,ll the stories you ralph, what is your -- brian, what is your favorite story ralph told you? brian: there are some any good ones. many good ones. storiesd some great , when he time in paris was trying to organize. he was given a tour of the gestapo headquarters. so he saw the headquarters of pure evil. that seared him, when he saw interrogation rooms and found out what really happened in their. learned to love the opera, this kid from the midwest. he talked about how much it operato him to go to the and there was one in particular that was his favorite.
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you remember the story of la bohème? the reason it meant so much to him, he was introduced this opera by a man named puccini. artist inis about the a garrett, and of a cold apartment in paris. ralph is in paris in winter when there is not enough fuel for people to heat their homes and they were sacrificing. it tells the story -- he tells the story of one sunday going to montmartre to mass, being driven up there. we got out of the car he was on the hill with the cathedral, looking down over the landscape thereis around him, and is no smoke. no one could use the fuel to warm their homes. he understood they were called. all of a sudden he connected that with going to the opera and this poor, young,
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parisian, who was freezing in her attic. he felt such compassion. come tohought ralph tears a couple of times. in all of the stories that he told me. one of them was when he was talking about heroism of the parisians, and their sense of sacrifice, that was necessary to endure that part of the war, knowing that they were cold and suffering. story, sod to that five years ago my daughter and i went to paris. we were up near march. -- montmartre. he had never adapted to technology fully he had tried. like many seniors, i'm not going to learn a darn new thing. he was 10 with my parents at the time. him -- he was staying with my parents and we
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facetimed with him. he had not been there for many years but you could see him it reminiscing in his own mind about what he saw. he was talking about how he saw people eating out of garbage was, and the poverty that right in front of him there. the story about people eating out of the garbage, what struck me about one of those stories, once he was describing a man who nattily,ed natalie -- in like a tuxedo to us. and the dignity that was injured, that man's dignity, that he had to go to to the trash to eat. ralph was struck by that, that he try to maintain his dignity with his formal suit. pia, what isu, your favorite story you love to hear your father tell? pia: actually, it is something he did which illustrated to us
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what a soft soul he was. we were in belgium. the war was imminent. army was reactivated reactivated and disbursed two sections of belgium. truck's and tanks, all kinds of vehicles, as well as soldiers, were going by where our house was. jimmy, a wireamed haired terrier. entranced by all this frontty in the street in of us, so he jumped the little and disappeared.
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never found out what happened to him. but we had an idea that a soldier probably picked him up and jimmy was very happy. usually,father did not to our knowledge, take walks in the evening. but as soon as jimmy disappeared, jimmy was primarily his dog. he would announce after dinner, that he was going to take a little walk. andhe would leave the house a few minutes later we would jimmy.m call, jimmy, but jimmy never appeared. illustrated what a kind person he was. >> yes. all dog lovers are kind souls. pia: yes. absolutely.
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hearthink we ought to about the spouses. remarkable people themselves. case and your mother's grace, and your grandmother. please tell us about them. brian: my grandmother was born and raised in paris, michigan. rapids, anof big irish catholic family. she had several nuns in her family. strong,an extremely faithful person. her duringore about the war years reading her letters last week. i think there might have been a portion of one up there. i grandfather made me agree with him that i would not share her letters and his letters, but i think that small caption is ok. he is not striking me down.
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an extremelyt passionate couple. you can kind of see that here in this letter. brian, in your pause i have to say it, this passage, i got a lump in my throat when i read that. brian: and there are so many like this. in those letters. he was a writer. he was a newspaper guy. but he had a way with words. >> would you like to read it out loud? brian: sure. i realize darling, your great me, as pointed out in your last letter, and only pray that this thing will soon be .ver forever
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i'm sorry. it's hard to follow. [laughter] it's up there. it's probably easier for you to read. the weight is angled. >> can you in the back read this? ok good. as a typewriter so the words are doubled a little bit. it is very moving. about, thessage children miss me and i miss them ever so much, often dreaming by the hour of how i can improve as a father and companion to them. perhaps we will all be richer by the separation. surely i love you and them, to so great an end, and realize and feel your devoted love toward me. does that not get your heart? brian: yes. and repeatedly he would talk about being with the children, ice-skating and doing all these things as a family. it was so important to him. he came back after the war and i was having a conversation with my dad.
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about this last weekend, we all saw this growing up. as a grandfather he was so passionate about getting the family together. if we were in the month of february and he had not heard about what are the plans for st. patrick's day and the three birthdays, what is going on? i want to know. we have to have a plan. so he was very loving in that way. and very much ever present in the moment. he was not a guy who is going to be on the phone even though his business may have required it. he was right there with you. many in the community, i've heard from many of you. i thing i saw hilary snell. he shared a story with me as he was passing through the old hotel one day. and he said hey ralph you do not know me but i loved to have -- i
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would love to have lunch with you. that's the kind of guy he was. he would love to share his stories when he could of them. he loved his community. i think you can see that throughout grand rapids. it is the many things you do not see that he did, that a really special to me. if i remember, your grandfather told me that he was away for five years, without seeing his family. i wondered how hard that must have been. not just for him, but his family as well. brian: while he repeatedly wrote , and i went through a lot of these letters the last few days. he wrote i hope i will be home soon. i think that is what kept him going. he did not know what the end of the war would look like. he did not know if it will be tomorrow or a year from now. know, he wrote letters twice a week.
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he said i'm going to make sure to write twice a week. and i think my grandmother wrote every day. there were a lot of letters. that was the face of the time, right? >> tell us about this photograph. think, my dad could tell you better because he is in the photo. when he wasback stationed in iceland. hit come to give a debriefing to the president at the time about sinking of the ship by the germans. there was a lot of controversy over that. they did not want it in the media. so he had a quicktime to come back and spend with the family. i think it was over christmas. write dad? -- right, dad? yes so that was the only time he came back. again, he did not know how many years it would be before he could return home. that was this photo.
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like many soldiers, he was not different in that regard. >> and your grandmother grace was a remarkably strong woman. she bought the house for the family and did all that without him. that was hard to do in those days. brian: yes with the help of his brother, howard, she acquired a home. he wrote in one of the letters, i will be sending back $400 per month so we can get that paid off. that is a smart investment. that howard, his brother, would help her do that. his parents did not even own a home, i learned from my dad. they rented their whole lives. he did not come from a wealthy background but he knew enough to save and to build for a future. >> and you have to tell us about your mom, alice. she is a remarkable spouse also. a very strong woman. pia: yes she was. she was only 19 years old when she married my dad.
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accident.uite by that is a long story so i will not bore you with it. the first place, when they were married, that they had to move to come up father was appointed as consul general to chicago. and my grandmother had a fit because she thought that is entering indian country, and it was not even safe. [laughter] welly mother adjusted very to the frequent changes and always kept busy doing something that was worthwhile. war, myance, during the mother and i retreated when the bombing started. and webings in tokyo moved to our country house in a small mountain town resort which
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was founded by american missionaries. it was not a typical resort town. there were golf courses, tennis courts, church. but link places or anything of that sort. residents at the time were probably less than 1000 people. it was strictly a summer resort. mother wasre and my not the type to sit and do nothing. to speak to the residents of the town. she discovered who had babies were having trouble nursing them because of the poor diet they were forced to be on. decided the kimono sleeve would make an ideal
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diaper to be used and so i was sent to all the households in this little resort town to try to round up all the cotton kimonos which were not being used so we can make diapers out of them. goats were easy to keep. and goat milk should be healthy for the babies. realized that there was no occult facility -- no medical facility in this little town so in negotiated with a doctor a nearby city, too, on a monthly , to look form a clinic into the health needs of the people in the town. she did not mind that frequent moves and the adjustment to
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different cultures. one story i would like to tell about my mother, is when we first went to germany, after our stay in brussels. it was 1939. we received a briefing that it would be possible that everything that went on at the embassy would be listened to by the germans. that was a horrible experience, at the age of 30, and practically a magpie who talked all the time, the notion that something else was going to hear everything that was going on was very traumatic for me. -- the age of 13. my mother had a secretary who was german but spent many years in london. so she spoke english perfectly. time, i was in my mother's
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cannot remember but she came was, in with tears in her eyes, crying because she had just received a summons from the gestapo. [ooh - crowd] and apparently from the time, to be summoned by the stop of, was the beginning of the end of your life. theto be summoned by gestapo. do notr said to frau, be concerned, i will go with you. the gestapo were shocked beyond words. they did not expect in investors wife to accompany somebody they had sent for. so they had some lame excuse and said it was not really important , we just wanted to know who she
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had worked for in london. obvious thatt was she would not be safe. so when we left germany, my parents made sure that she was that she to london so would not have to deal with the gestapo again. that was the sort of-my mother was, if there was a solution to some problem, she would take care of it. remarkable in the sense that she adjusted so well to any adversity that happen to come our way. >> what a great story. to remind the audience you will have the opportunity to ask a question or two, so be thinking.
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i have one more question and then we hope you will step forward. i would like to know what you think, what should the history saburo kurusu? how did the text books get it wrong and what to they say? pia: the end of my father's career was an attempt to negotiate peace in the united states. unfortunately, the general opinion was that once pearl harbor occurred, that he was really not trying to negotiate , that it was all a smokescreen to enable pearl harbor to happen. sourcet was a tremendous of sadness to him, to think that the end of his career, the
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general opinion was that it was for not -- naught. not really an effort to negotiate peace. i remember after the war, when the war crimes crile's -- trials were beginning, and the american judge named was judge keenan. to be dad was called interviewed by judge keenan, to establish whether or not he could be considered a war criminal. in this interview, judge keenan mentioned to my dad that one telegram he had sent from washington, d.c. to tokyo indicated that he was fully aware of pearl harbor going to occur. looked at the suppose
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it cable that judge keenan , iwed him, and he said certainly do not recall ever that you arele showing me. so my father volunteered that he would go and get the original cable from the foreign service that he had sent. and would have the translation at the same time. and he met with judge keenan again. and showed him the cable that he actually had sent. and the translation thereof. and it judge keenan said, you know, i did the same thing. and you're right. the translation was totally in error. translation, a a difference in language, can have very difficult consequences.
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as a result of proving that he had not sent that cable, he did not have to suffer as a perspective were criminal. >> that was acknowledged. pia: yes. thiswever, apparently little incident was not sufficient to totally eradicate reallyion that he had come to be a smokescreen to cover for the pearl harbor. incident. on as career really ended sad note. >> a lot of that was due to the secretary of state who was pleasant against your father -- was poisoned against your father from cables from the 1930's, and did not get your father the benefit of the doubt. pia: yes, so i understand.
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>> the victors write history. brian, tell us what you like to see the text books say about your grandfather. brian: i think we will probably never know what he really did. through the war, postwar, all the way up until he stopped working for the intelligence division, or really will not know the full story. what we do know is the legacy he created. so, the programs like the cook , and thep academy hauenstein center for presidential studies, i believe through his life yet a chris tebaldi see where the future was going. he believed that greatest --
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through his life he had a crystal ball to see where the future was going. was here with carter. he was the founder of an institute at a major contributor to what has gone on there. he had his hand in so many things that will probably change our lives for many years to come. and we do not have a clue as to what that is now. it is amazing what he was able to accomplish in his lifetime. i would love to see maybe a book. i know you have a lot of notes. i would love to see a book come out about his postwar. he often told me that the book he wrote, the intelligence was my line, that focused on his war thes, he said it is really story really gets interesting after that. [laughter] that is what he left me with. and one more thing i would add is an incident of the
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tripartite pact. theink a great deal of suspicion of my father's intent in negotiating and washington, d.c., before world war ii, was the fact that he had been the signer. o the tripartite pact. actually, he was deadly against the pact. he did not think it had any-but it was pushed by the germans and italians and mr. matsoka, the foreign minister at the time of the architect of the pact. diplomat ine senior europe at the time, he was ordered to sign it, as i mentioned before. but he immediately resigned after signing that tripartite pact. and he was called back to work.
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negotiatingempt at a peace with the united states occurred. frequentlystory is rewritten based on archives opening up let's hope that as we go along, the truth will out. i think it was does, it just takes time. i want to make sure we open it to the audience. questiont he have a pia or brian? >> . i would like to hear about what happened after pearl harbor for your dad. did he stay in this country? did you have transit back to japan? pia: there was an exchange which .ook place the american diplomats in japan were put on a ship and the japanese diplomat in ashington,
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d.c., or put on another ship. and the two ships landed at the southern tip of africa. ships andople changed were returned to their own country. interesting that there was a group in japan of , who would get together surreptitiously to try to form a policy that might be taken after the defeat. there was no question in anybody's mind that japan was going to be defeated. that as cover for these meetings, i would sometimes accompany my father. the meetings were held in
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private homes, different homes. sometimes asked to accompany my father, so that it appeared we were just visiting some family somewhere. in he was very much involved the attempt to design some sort of an equitable future after the defeat of japan. question. a thank you. what did your father think about general douglas macarthur and his time in japan? did he appreciate him or see problems? pia: i feel correctly or otherwise, that the perfect person was chosen, because the japanese were not accustomed to
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be hell --ho would type of people. if general eisenhower had been sent as the spring commander he might not have commanded the respect that general macarthur did. we were used to his type of personality and i think that was a great help. the other thing general macarthur did which was probably very helpful, and calming the in a prewar enemy occupied country, was the fact that he insisted that the emperor position be maintained. even though there were many theories that he should be japan. as the emperor of but general macarthur wisely
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decided that was not necessary and did not do it. question. >> i wonder if brian would explain the map here. my mother asked me about the map here. [laughter] she said where did that come from? an interesting story. when my grandfather, toward the end of his life he was down in his office at home and he reached up on the shelf and pulled down this cardboard tube. he says have a look at this. i look and i am like, is this what i think it is? and he said, -- i said is the from the war room in london? the date on this is june 1, 1944. so we know what happened right after that, right? what is fascinating about this
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beyond the fact that it is all hand drawn, is the fact that the intelligence required to put something like this together required an enigma. it required agents on the ground, double agents. it required flyovers. the amount of information here is amazing. to know that in order for them to attack normandy, they really needed all of this information. otherwise they would have been annihilated. i encourage you to come up and take a look afterwards. artefact.nating i'm sure the smithsonian and everyone in the army war college are after it rained -- are after it. what one of you tell about the story that ralph used to stabbed bytime being
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general patent and how he had the card from eisenhower? -- general patton. brian: he's to love to show this card after the war. he would pull it out and say this is my past, no one else has it. because he had full clearance to interrogate anyone, to go anywhere he wanted and to do basically anything he wanted. pass.s is my he was moving through patents division -- patton's and had the curtain draw in his vehicle. patton sent someone to the vehicle and said, that guy has to take the curtains off or draw them back. and he just held his hand out with his pass, and on he went. [laughter] and patton stormed away. great story. that is probably my favorite.
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thank you, marybeth. >> as a follow-up, i invited ralph over to watch the movie patton with george see scott because i wanted to see how ralph would respond. 10 minutes in he said, it is just like that s.o. b. [laughter] brian: true. >> any other questions? >> six months after pearl harbor was the battle of midway. i wonder where your family was at the time and how your father reacted to that? pia: my father was still at tokyo at our home there. my mother and i were already up in the mountains. war, of course, this group of people, who were
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of some consequent politically, had access to interesting information that was not publicly available. but it was certainly a very road to defeat after the midway incident. you what myl father's reaction might have been because i was not close to him at the time. we were in the mountains. he was in tokyo. >> one more question. >> what information got to you in tokyo and what was the reaction among the people that you knew to the dropping of the bomb on hiroshima? was one news that was immediately publicized in the
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papers, although the media was pretty much controlled by the government. result, wasdiate the disbelief of what that single bomb could do. wereurse, invariably there people who had relatives or friends, or people who had been at rush month when it happened. hiroshima when it happened. so the gravity of what it created became very widely known very quickly. after course, very soon the emperor officially made the speech of surrender. to the allies. thing that was
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immediately, the information was newsreels and all the , and news radio shows, and everything. so the gravity of what had happened was immediately obvious, i think, to the entire population in japan. >> i want to think both of you for bringing your father, your grandfather, out of the printed page of the history books and really putting flesh and bone on him and telling who they were as people. how they struggled, how they triumphed, the ways they were interesting people worthy of a studied that's where the of study and worthy of the students in our cook leadership academy to study. this is exhibit a and b of what leaders have to go through and how tough it is to be a leader. [applause]
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[applause] pia: i think you all for listening. it has been quite a number of i tried to live as just jane don't life. [laughter] it has been an interesting experience for me. i am parted some information you may not have had. thank you for listening. -- i hope i imparted information. [applause] reception so stick around and share stories. ask questions. we will see you in the back. thank you. ♪ corps]nd drum
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history see spence tout with event coverage, eyewitness accounts, archival films, lectures in college classrooms, and visits to museums and historic places.
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all weekend, every weekend, on c-span3. -- you are watching c-span3. sunday, yell law professor justin driver talks about the 1956 southern manifesto, written by congressional members who oppose to the supreme court's 1954 brown v. board of education decision which ruled segregated schools were unconstitutional. here is a preview. -- a yale law professor. >> what was the southern manifesto? when people think about it today, it is enshrouded in the mist of mythology to the extent they think about it out all. we think of segregationists as having temporarily taken leave of their senses. and that the southern manifesto is a screed that sounds like nothing so much as a latter-day
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rebel yell. when describing the manifesto and its signatories, commentators say that it was driven by fear, anger and mental illness. just about any emotion or condition that reduces rational thought. we hear that the manifesto seed anger, and that it had an ugly vehemence. signersay about the that they were fanatic segregationists. this line of thinking finds that height in richard kluger's simple justice, a magnificent work. he says thee southern manifesto was an ejaculation of bile and an orgiastic declaration of defiance.
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language and if one reads it, it is hard to square with what is on the page. manifesto undermines the perception that southern politicians were universally blinded by rage. the drafters advanced legal arguments opposing integration that contained nuance, subtlety and sophistication than their detractors have allowed. recovering those arguments in detail enables one to understand how the manifesto in significant ways should be viewed as the missing dissent to brown v. board of education. >> learn more this sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv. 75 years ago on march 9 and 10th 1945, nearly 200 bombers conducted the bombing of tokyo.
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destroyede city was and the estimates of civilians killed range from 80,000 to 130,000. ca," "thereel ameri last bomb," this academy award nominated bomb shows planning, execution, and return after 3000 miles of flight. ♪ >> early in 1945,


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