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tv   Campaign 2020 Future of the GOP  CSPAN  July 29, 2020 6:40pm-7:34pm EDT

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next, a discussion on the upcoming 2020 presidential election in the future of the republican party. held by the common good. this is close to an hour. >> good afternoon everybody,
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i'm patricia. i'm happy to welcome our gray special guest speaker. we have a extremely fascinating guest today and one of our favorite political analysts to operate as moderator. we will get right to the conversation. we've got a bright unusual phenomenon in the 2020 presidential campaign this year. a hugely influential slice of the republican party, including longtime conservatives and moderates, have broken with reelecting the leader of their own party. the president of the united states no less, donald trump. these political operatives are part of the broader never trump rebellion that began four years ago as a largely slight blind khadr a of republicans. it has transformed in recent weeks into a potentially disruptive force in this year's presidential race. groups such as the lincoln project and republican voters against trump are using guerrilla tactics and clever
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ads and may already be making a big difference this year. we are thrilled to have one of the leaders of this efforts, sarah long well, who has decades of experience as an active voice in republican politics. originally as the vice president and communications director of brimming in company and later with her own communications form, boeing will and as -- long well and associates. recently, she served on the cabinet of republicans and became a never trumper in 2016. she's now the executive director of republican voters against trump as well as republicans for the rule of law. she's also headed up defending democracy together which advocated for trumps impeachment to help us out, we are really honored and so happy to have you. our good friend, republican strategist and analyst, susan del percio to moderate and host the conversation.
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she has advised dozens of candidates in new york and elsewhere including rudy giuliani for whom she served as a deputy commissioner. also an adviser to governor andrew cuomo. you will be familiar with her on many of her appearances on msnbc. we thank you both so much for being with the common good today. i now passing the baton to susan to lead our conversation. thank you susan. >> thank you so much patricia. sarah, thank you for all you do and fighting the good fight for principled republicans. i get to say that because i'm a moderator. recently, there was a story on you by susan glazer. one thing that stood out is she said at the scene as there being a bunch of never trumpers. all they do is get around to talk. then, you stand up and say let's stop talking induce something. so you did. tell us where you are in this
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process. >> susan makes it sound much more cinematic than it was. as i recall it, it was actually bill crystal talking and i started interrupting him and saying your famous, why don't we do something besides just sitting in these rooms with a bunch of sad republicans and figure out how to fight back? i will admit to some naivete early on. i really thought that the republican party writ large. the susan collins, the lindsey graham's, that they will -- that they would be real guardrails. that it was going to be a tough four years but, but we were going to find someone to primary donald trump. we tried. we named bill crystal, we spoke to larry hogan. none of it came to fruition. as we were going into 2020 --
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one thing i did early on was say, everyone was asking what happened to the republican party? what was going on? my background and communications led me to know there's an answer to this. we can go find out. so i started doing focus groups with reluctant from voters. people who had voted for donald trump but rated him as doing a somewhat bad or very bad job. we started talking to them to understand why they voted for trump and ultimately, what would persuade them to stop supporting donald trump. which brings us to this moment where the thing that i found after doing three years of these focus groups is, the thing that people found most persuasive was not these abstract foreign policy scandals. it's not the ads with the scary music and things like that, it is real republicans just like them expressing the anxiety that they all talk about having around donald trump. it's not just that they think he should get off twitter, they think he's erratic, they think he's a problematic character,
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they think he has good qualities to, things that i probably wouldn't give him credit for having but there are -- just in talking to them, i thought, these people, women, for example. say, i voted for him and then i felt like i to take a shower, or i went home and cried. okay, that is a person who can be persuaded to not vote for donald trump again in 2020. so i thought about how the personal stories, we could show that, how that really move people. i thought, how do you build a project that is just a hundreds of republican voters and people who voted for trump in 2016 talking about why they won't do it again in 2020. and so we really build republican voters against trump with that research in mind. it was hard at first. i'm sorry if i'm just going on. >> please. >> it took us probably three or four months to get the first hundred because people didn't know what we were doing with that, people were nervous about going on camera and expressing
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how they felt but once we got the first hundred and we launched now they are just pouring in. we have almost 500, we got 30 today, so far. they're coming in droves and it's because, i feel like there's a lot of republicans who haven't been doing what i have been doing the last three and a half years, which is constantly talking about why this is wrong. and instead they have been sort of struggling with it in their own communities and now they want to get it off their chest. we have collected but it's getting close to 500 of these testimonies videos and we are about to spend 15 million dollars in the swing states to showing these real stories to those soft trump supporters like the people i've been talking to in the focus groups for the last few years, to see if we can't knock off even if it's just 3%. when donald trump won, everybody knows this now it's, conventional wisdom, but he won three states by 77,000 votes, that's few people that are packed into an nfl game. if we can pull 1%, 3%, and frankly i think we can do
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better than that, then we can give joe biden a landslide victory. i think that joe biden leads a landslide victory. because i think that is probably the only way you will get republicans to own the fact that this was a mistake. this whole thing was a mistake. >> i definitely want to get into the nuts and bolts of the campaign. i want to just, for those people who are doing the testimonials, and maybe, i know i have gotten this question asked a lot. i'm sure people have to you. they say, you're not happy with the republican party, why not become a democrat? >> yeah. , i would become independent before i would become a democrat. in some ways, i'm not particularly tribal about politics. i have a set of things that i believe and a lot of them aligned more closely with what traditional republicans believed i, believe in american leadership in the world. i believe that free markets are good and have lifted millions of people out of poverty.
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i think that personal responsibility is a virtue, that we should cultivate in our society, whatever, you know, i think we shouldn't allow it runaway dead and deficits. things like that. >> you wouldn't give up your party just to vote against donald trump. >> i was your first. this guy shows up being after spending most of his life as a democrat and suddenly saying i am here to hijack the republican party and i can't believe that people just decided to roll over and say, we don't believe in free trade anymore? it has been crazy the experience has been really wild, it's like invasion of the vice nature's. i still just believe the same things that i have always believed around policy, i'm not going to change that, that being said. i will take any day, policy is not what is at stake here. i think for people who say, tax cuts and judges as some kind of a reason for donald trump, there aren't enough tax cuts in
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judges in the world to allow a person who is actively subverting the foundations of democracy in the rule of law and so those things take precedence. i believe in liberal democracy much more than i believe in east marginal tax rates. i believe in both of them, but i believe one is much more important than the other. it is not that i'm going to go and become a democrat, i'm gonna fight for the things i believe in. in this moment, that means fighting donald trump. >> let's get into this nuts and bolts about, the three states, when we look at michigan and wisconsin. we really see, based on the numbers, that was a turnout problem for hillary clinton. she just so underperformed barack obama. when we look at wisconsin, sure, donald trump did do a little bit i'm sorry, michigan, donald trump did do better than romney, he got an extra hundred thousand votes, but what is interesting is that in wisconsin, donald trump
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received 2000 fewer votes than romney. it really was looking at this, it really was the democrat candidate that kind of blew it there. but pennsylvania is, and that is your stomping ground, is a whole different category. because hillary clinton basically came just shy of 20,000 votes of where barack obama was in 2012. it really was trump finding these voters and whether we call them the forgotten voters, he looked for new voters, got people registered. but to the tune of 240,000 more votes than mitt romney. that is huge. that is the story that i think people mistake between michigan and wisconsin versus pennsylvania. i think it's that pennsylvania strategy that trump is trying to duplicate, not just in pennsylvania but in other places. do you think that can work? >> you're absolutely right. this is how donald trump sort
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of pulled that insight straight. he pulled a rabbit out of a hat. in 2016, he found voters that weren't really, that didn't vote, otherwise. it's something that comes up in focus groups all the time, it's such a blind spot for politico's, which is that i have people say all the time, why did you it for donald trump? well, he's a great businessman. i watched him on the apprentice for eight years. he was really decisive and i'm always like, i never watched the apprentice. it never, i always forget that he lived in people's living rooms for eight years as this carefully curated, consummate businessman. he fired gilbert godfrey or whatever. he became this vision for people of what a decisive businessman is. those people who maybe weren't normally involved in politics but were fans of his, came out of the woodwork and voted for him. the reason that i'm skeptical that he can do look at that strategy is that, number one, we have seen that playbook. democrats are not leaving
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anything on the table in terms of turnout. they were way, way to, i can't think of the different words some going to say khaki, overconfident is what i should've gone with. they were way too over confident in 2016, thinking that hillary clinton headed in the bag, i constantly i'm thinking -- >> no chips no trips to wisconsin. >> no trips to wisconsin. they were spending money in arizona, which i would agree with spending money arizona right now. but i bet they wish they had spent that arizona mnuchin. there were just things that were totally left on the table. so number one, the democrats democrats know that playbook, they won't make that mistake again. to, i think that independents broke heavily for donald trump. we can all take this polling with a grain of salt but the independence this time around are going to break against donald trump. all the polling shows that to be true, because donald trump has to run on the record. he can't run around saying i'm
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going to build a wall that mexico is going to pay for, and people are going to get excited about that. we are in the middle of a pandemic that he has mismanaged, it has real, personal consequences for peoples lives. their lives are not better than they were four years ago. we are all living in our basements, not living in them but working in them. people just, the personal consequences to their lives now, if you ask the reagan question, are you better off today than you were four years ago? the answer for most people is no. i just don't think that he is going to be able to generate this forgotten man enthusiasm this time around, for people who say let's shake things up. i think people are much more likely to say, i would like somebody who knows what they're doing, because things are really, really problematic right now. >> we saw a new kind of enthusiasm in 2018. especially in the suburbs. i would think that suburban women, especially, are kind of your prime targets. and especially where we are
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today, because nothing took down donald trump yet. charlottesville didn't do it, mueller didn't do it, impeachment didn't do it, but somehow, i think that suburban women, trying to figure out if they should send their children to school, and listening to donald trump, is a tough choice. we saw some of it in 2018. what are your thoughts on 2020? >> just on that 2018 point, which i think is a really good one. i completely agree, i think the story is women. it's coupled with, if there is high african american turnout, coupled with the total cratering and defection of women from the republican party. the republican party has totally advocated and women. i can't think of a stupid or mistake they have made, the republicans don't have a governing coalition or winning coalition if they can't compete in the suburbs. and the suburbs absolutely mean women. one of the things that i think is such an interesting data
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point on 2018, if you look at somebody like alyssa slotkin. she is in a place where donald trump won by seven points in 2016. in 2018, she wins by four points, which means that she had to have picked up people who voted for donald trump. now she's in a very vulnerable seat here in 2020. i don't know whether she will hold on to it or not. i do think it shows just how many people -- i do all these focus groups and when you take people who voted for trump, you focus on women, and you say you are only looking at people who write him is very bet. it is filled with these women who voted for him in 2016 because they couldn't vote for hillary clinton and by 2018, they were so disgusted and so horrified by him, they couldn't wait to go vote for the democrats in 2018. i saw that shift happened more or less in realtime. that's a gender gap is turning into a gender chasm as 2020 has approached. you look at his numbers with women and not just college educated suburban women, but
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white working class women to. he had has had an 11 point slide with non-college white women. if he can't hold those women in those more rural areas, that is where depressing that enthusiasm, or those numbers going down, that destroys is theory of a, we've got all these people who have never turned out before. it's a simple challenge to them. in the middle of a pandemic, a health crisis, economic crisis and racial crisis, do you think that there is another hundred thousand people that are like, i'm loving what i'm seeing and i want to go out and vote for this guy again. -- >> i can believe the first hundred thousand. >> that's true. >> when you look at that, we know that those suburban women are gettable, as they call it in the business. but can they be turned away by what would be perceived as maybe a two liberal vp choice by donald trump or duo biden? with that scare them?
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>> it's a good question. here's what i think. i think that there is a reason donald trump really wanted to run against bernie sanders. it is because that was the only way he was going to hold on to the suburbs. i actually think that if he did run against bernie sanders, granted, i don't know, in this particular environmental things would've changed but the suburbs, he would've been able to hold on to a lot more suburban voters. i think that this is a tricky one for joe biden. normally, i would say that a vice presidential pick doesn't matter that much, but of course, with his advanced age, it actually means considerably more than normal. i think it's a lot of people right now who are looking for the vice presidential pick as a signal of which way the parties going to go. the democratic party is having a similar struggle to the republican party. they have been able to hold off their more populist, far left flank. if joe biden picks somebody who is perceived to be extremely
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liberal, i think it gives the republicans something to beat up on them about. i think there is some room for attrition, with some of those suburban voters. that being said, i think that what i'm talking to these people in focus groups, they are so out. if you watch some of the videos, the testimonials, the things people say are, i voted him in 16 but this time i would vote for a tomato can if the democrats put it up. i'd vote for tuna fish sandwich, there's a lot of inanimate objects that people are busting out that they would vote for. i think there's at least some percentage that i don't think it's and significant, that are completely out. they would be happy to vote for joe biden and whoever he picks as vice president. i don't think it's meaningless, i think it does have meaning, who he chooses. >> to follow up on the baby choice and how he should be running is frank payne, we saw some polling recently, he's within five points, in texas, some have him up.
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there's this top that maybe he should go to run the board. you said earlier that you hope he wins overwhelming. i think he that can be done with the popular vote. i happen to think that his best strategy is to win is to get to 70. do you think that there is a danger of him following too much in the hillary clinton playbook, looking to expand for a 300 plus victory versus two 70, which could, if he goes with a bigger number, he could really start hurting those 3% or 2% of the people that we talked about just now, that you have. >> i think that is really right. i had a piece in the bulwark yesterday, arguing against this idea. there's a story that came out over the weekend by jonathan martin in the new york times, saying they're bunch of democratic operatives pushing joe biden to get involved in texas. i would've piece saying please, do not do that. texas 30 minute 30 million people, it's a planet unto
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itself. joe biden, while he's been out fund-raising, donald trump the last two months, he's way behind on the cash. he's got a little more than half of what trump has. he's playing with a small stack. to spread it around the board in places like texas because the democrats think they can press their advantage to go for a political realignment type of election, i think that's too far. certainly, invest in north carolina. invest in arizona. please break his back in florida. if you're going to invest in a massive state, go into florida where the fox news polling, which is where the best pulls out there, has got him down by nine points and where he's just dying with seniors. that's a play. i do think that there is a risk where democrats, they don't have their resources because they went through a tough primary and he hasn't had the same amount of time. i will tell you one thing, i would accept texas as a play if someone named mike bloomberg were to jump in and say, he'd
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find 300 million dollars in the couch cushions, that's a different story. when he's at a fund-raising disadvantage with not much time left on the clock, he has got to play to win. that means making sure that pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan are sewn up, go into florida, look at arizona and north carolina. the other thing is, if you want to stretch play, stretch into georgia. where those two senate races at least. i have not understood this texas thing. i really think, we can't do the same thing. we shouldn't trust the polling. we should look at it, it should be a guide, it should be something we factor in but it's not, you can't take it as gospel by any stretch of the imagination. i always tell people that run like are ten points behind every day. if you're ten points behind, you would be putting your money into the main stakes that you can win to make sure you can get to 70. i think it's a little bit of a
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difference sometimes between the republicans. i got a lot of grief from the democrats when i say don't go into texas, because there was like, who wants to listen to this republican tell us about why we should unprecedented in texas? i was like, because for me, trump is an existential threat to democracy and so i will take no risks. there is no gamble, no room for gambling. you have to do the thing that is going to make sure you get to 70. >> if biden takes michigan, which the trump campaign is written off, all he is to do is pick a florida. if you just focuses on florida, that gets him over to 70. i am on the same issue. you mentioned georgia, where there are competitive senate races. how do you balance the need to destroy trump and really knock him down, versus the need to hold on to a senate majority republican majority? is it worth losing the senate
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majority? will it result -- if donald trump goes down, does the senate go down with him, and is it worth it? >> this is a good question tonight is tough one. i have thought a lot about it. i have this incredibly soft spot for susan collins. susan collins led the fight to repeal don't ask don't tell. i know that she is the one that is in the sights, it's been hard for me to watch all the moderate republicans like carlos gravel and jeff all get run out by donald trump. we made a decision not to senate races in what we're doing we are very focused on donald trump. >> there is absolute value in the republican party learning about the lesson about what they've done donald trump. the key is for joe biden to run up historic margins and i think that there are maybe fond of
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susan collins,. if some if joe biden wins by enough in those senate seats go, i don't think that's better off for the republican party to learn the lesson that you nominate a guy like donald trump, ultimately i just decide that the best thing for us to do strategically -- we want people to participate in our program who aren't necessarily going to vote for democrats. we want to attract people who say i'm deeply pro-life, i'll never vote for a democrat ever, but i'm not going to vote for donald trump. i voted for him last but i won't do it again. we wanted our tend to be big enough to accommodate those people, you can put together that kind of coalition if you are also doing the sentence. frankly, we want people who are going to maybe vote for tom tillis but aren't going to vote for donald trump. we want those people to. there's a strategic answer to
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that and an emotional answer. >> this was to go hand in hand. we talk about the future the republican party. i had faith in our nation coming back stronger and better. i do know if we can say the same about the republican party. we know what to do in 2012, there's an autopsy because we need to build a coalition and not our focus. the donald trump never cared about the republicans. what happens the day after election day swimming don trump loses? does the party have the future we once thought it had? >> i wish i had better news for this on this front. some of it is the margin of donald trump's loss will matter.
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republicans will want to be in charge again at some point, they will recognize that they can't build a winning coalition justin white working class men and be regional party. rty.i think that there is opportunity there to have a fight for the soul of the party. i will say that the problem with donald trump, he is just not going anywhere. unless he is in jail, which i think is not off the table entirely. if he's not in jail, what is he doing? donald trump has never cared that much about beating democrats. he cares about owning the republican party. he wants to be the kingmaker in the party. jeff sessions, he runs a jeff sessions yesterday and i don't have a ton of love for jeff sessions but he got donald trump -- donald trump is running him out because he did the honorable thing and recused himself in this situation of the special counsel's investigation. donald trump wants that role -- >> he didn't even pick the better candidate against doug
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jones in that particular case. it would've been good for the party if sessions, he would've been more likely to be doug jones. >> that's right. donald trump doesn't care about the party or about the party winning, he cares about his own power and influence. the idea the george w. bush goes off to live in texas and really doesn't stick his head out to much, that is not what donald trump is going to do. he is never going to stop talking. he is never going to stop tweeting. he will have his own television network, he will probably have shows for ivanka and jarrett. he will groom somebody, maybe tucker carlson, for the future. if that is the future of the republican party, and donald trump maintains that role, and then the party is pretty doomed. i am not as optimistic. the reason for the landslide victory needs to be that the party says to him, this guy doesn't get to have a role, and tries to shut him down. i think the world being what it is, that is a tough thing to do. what do you think nikki haley
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is doing right now? if she distancing yourself from trump? >> i'm trying to figure out who should be at the convention or not. that is the million dollar question for me. >> we have covered so much. thank you. there are a lot of questions coming up so i think i'm going to throw it back to patricia, who is going to do some of the human a. is that right? patricia? >> yes. she is unmuting herself. >> right, okay. >> i think you would think i have this down by now. that was amazing. that was really fascinating. no matter what party you're part of, or not much part of. i wonder if rick solomon wants to ask his question. >> rick, your muted. just an yourself. >> you said earlier, sarah,
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very interesting, about the fact that trump needs to be destroyed in a landslide in order to be dislodged. implicit in that is the fact that, you may not leave off his piece of lee and that you might need to fly him out with a crowbar. what is your view on that. there are a lot of people, including constitutional lawyers, who believe that he will not leave easily. it's also a great question >>. it's something i think about a lot. it's one of the reasons that i think a worst-case scenario. let's say, a worst-case scenario is donald trump winning. the next worst-case an area is him losing very narrowly. one of the key things about this election is that it is going to look different from other elections. we are going to be continuing to be in the pandemic, very likely. there is going to be way more vote by mail and absentee ballots that commit. the election night is not going to look we could traditional election election night, likely. if you look at some of the
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primaries that it happened, the one in kentucky for example, you don't find out the results for a week. my biggest concern is that it is a very narrow victory for joe biden and yet, there is all these ballots to be counted, and donald trump is out there, he's already laid the groundwork for this, to start talking about the fact the election was raked. but this whole thing, people were ballot harvesting and all this stuff, sewing distrust in the outcome. i think at that point, if let's say, there is one instance of an irregularity on election night, and donald trump is able to use the levers of the federal government to do i don't know what, but tell people to cease counting ballots or who knows. i have less of a fear about the idea of him losing decisively and to him not going. i think that's not something to worry about. i am worried about it being not as clear cut in who won and it being a little bit of a confusing election, because it looks different.
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and for people to be in the streets over it. >> allen, are you trying to ask a question? >> we do have a question from stan cohen. do you want to ask your question, stand? >> sure. i. my belief is, i just want to state for the record that might surprise those when only. i'm a lifelong republican, i'm a jab it's republicans win as liberal as they get. my scenario is the only way trump can win is either by who putin maneuver or just a miracle happening in the pandemic. what i'm concerned about is biden comes in and can't do anything in the government because the senate is still republican and so nothing gets accomplished and it becomes a
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democratic failure. do you see that and do you feel that to move the country forward in a way that restores us, that the democrats are better in holding all three, the two branches of congress and the presidency? >> i'm not sure, i think it depends on which republican senators are still in their. i think that if you've got collins and rick how ski, it also depends on what he tries to do. i think it was trying to pass the green new deal then obviously that will be frustrated by a narrow senate majority. i think would be a narrow senate majority. if they hold the senate it depends on who's there but if you've got susan collins and murkowski, mitt romney, and others, folks who are looking to find some corrective action. something i think is going to
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happen, pretty early on i hope is going to happen, is that there's going to be a bunch of, after nixon, where they do a bunch of rule of law reforms. you can't put your kids in the white house, you can't install them in the white house and have one of their spouses running the executive branch without proper security clearance. anti corruption legislation. i think a lot of republicans would support that and i think a lot of republican support would be there for a lot of things. modest moving on health care, i am, as a conservative, one of the things i like is for people to have to negotiate and for there to be more incremental change. it's not -- this goes back to susan's question which is why it's tough. i want donald trump to be thoroughly repudiated. that probably means him losing the senate as well so that they learned that lesson. at the same time, i think that
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the problem with it, if there's totally unchecked democratic power and they are running really hard left, then you are looking at a very short period of time where people don't start looking back to the republican party as the option to put the brakes on that democratic party. i would like the republican party to have a little more time and we, they have anointed tucker carson to be the brakes on a crazy democratic agenda, i think the best-case scenario is if it's incredibly narrow and there is compromise being forced. >> i just want to jump in and i feel just like sarah does, when we see this in new york, for example. having a republican controlled senate is a perfect foil for biden. because it allows him to not go. he's not extreme. he is more moderate.
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it allows him to say, i couldn't go that far, i could give you this but i couldn't give you everything. and that is a place he's actually more comfortable in. there is that to consider, i want to throw that out there. >> that is a great point. >> let me ask you, in the same vein, what do you think would be the consequence -- what is the possibility of trump finding a way to fight biden. he doesn't seem to find a frame as of yet to really hurt biden. but he is searching for one. -- is there one that you think he would be most vulnerable to? is it about being too liberal? >> i think that -- i don't think that biden has been particularly vulnerable to most of these things. he ran in a really bloody primary as the most moderate in a big batch of democrats and blew the socialist out of the water.
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it's hard to paint him as a liberal extremist. i do think the biggest issue for biden is his vice presidential pick. i don't think that trump can lay a glove on him. they can try china but everything that trump does ends up looking like a projection. if it's china, trump has been weak on china. are we going to get into a debate over mental acuity because that enough you saw that rose garden speech esther day, but donald trump should not be in a fight with anybody over their mental acuity. when they go after this senility argument, biden is too old, that hurts him with a lot of the older voters. trump has been, they want to run an economy. they don't have it. they're trying to run a culture wars. the problem is they are talking about monuments when most americans are thinking, how am i going to send my kids to school safely and why isn't there a plan? they are not as interested. it's not as fun to own the lives when you can't own a car or on your house because you're in double double digit
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unemployment. he hasn't been able to get a toehold against biden. donald trump's dream right now, if i put myself in their shoes and what they want to happen, they want elizabeth warren. they want somebody that they can really say, yes, that is the democratic party we've told you to be really scared of. i'm not confident that it will work just because of the pandemic scenario, and that changing everything. but that is their best case scenario and hope. i think that would be, the mistake would be going too far left in a vp pick with a candidate who is old enough that people think, this person could definitely end up being president. >> nancy collins. you're next. >> hi, i was wondering, if biden really wants to play to win, who would you choose as his vice president? >> you're gonna make me go on the record with a pick, how? my own personal biases are
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really wrapped up in this. i would've told him to go with amy klobuchar and grab somebody. i have more of a sense of what the profile should be of the person that he should pick. joe biden has been a vice president so he knows what it takes to be a good vice president, which is loyalty. somebody you can get along with, have a good relationship with, who is going to carry out your agenda by not running for president the whole time that they're there. i think that if you picked somebody that's far from him, ideologically, that is a recipe for disaster. i think he would be the most comfortable with somebody like amy klobuchar, mamie kamala harris, although with kamala she would be my second choice. i do think you end up with somebody like her, someone who is basically running for president from the moment she becomes the vice president. susan rice has been tossed out. i think that is not a bad choice but that means everybody gets to re-litigate benghazi. that is a pitfall there.
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my choices are all people like gina roman dough and i think retching whitmer is a pretty interesting one just because she's handled the pandemic well and the eyes of her constituents. she could be good. you know who he should choose for vice president, cory booker. i want there to be a female in the white house as much as anybody. but cory booker is right for this moment and i think he would have made a stellar vp pick. biden is locked itself in. he was locked himself in. amy klobuchar stepped back and i really think it needs to be a woman of color. not only did she take herself out, she basically took elizabeth warren out with her which shows how vicious amy quinn which are can be. if you really narrow in terms of a woman of color, who has
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experience at a pretty high level, then you are down to very few people. i, like everybody else, gets taken by the news cycle. look at keisha lance bottoms, isn't she interesting. but she's a mayor. she's a mayor that we saw give one awesome speech on cnn during the protests. i don't know that necessarily says off, we should definitely make her vice president. it's a pretty tough decision, i think, for him. one of the bigger ones facing him. >> nancy. someone sound went out. >> i thought maybe you were frozen. patricia, were you saying something? >> maybe patricia is frozen.
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>> can someone pick bernard shorts? >> yes, no problem. bernard. you can speak. once you are a needed, sorry. >> your muted. >> can you unmute him? >> hello? >> we can hear you. i'm a lifelong democrat i have always been a democrat, i always will be democrat, i hope, i think. i have to tell you i am very, very worried about this election. for a lot of reasons. those three months left to go. i'm sure that trump will come in with another package, maybe a trillion dollars that will
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get us through the next three months, to have the people who are unemployed. and he will have a good portion of their vote. i'm concerned about the fact that we democrats do not have a spokesperson. the only thing i get from mr. biden, when i loved dearly, is a package saying this is what he said yesterday. i see him on tv showing how he would be a vivid, vital, leader of this country going forward. i think that he will have -- trump will have good news or fair news about the epidemic. he will keep on trying to keep on coming out with good news. all in awe, this is not going to be a runaway for the democrats. we are not geared up for a real, good, heavy fight.
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we need a fighter in there. i think biden can be so but he needs to be advised needs to be out there in front. he's the person who has to be there with the new ideas, with the issues that we have to face as a country. don't kid yourself, this is not going to blow away because some republicans are going to join us. it's going to be tough and we are not geared for it. >> that is right attitude to have. i think that the last thing anybody should do is get overconfident and i think after what happened in 2016, we should all live with that ptsd and we should channel exactly what you said. the thing about biden, i agree with you, i've been of two minds about how he's been handling himself. on one hand, this election really is going to be a referendum on donald trump in many ways, joe biden very
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strategically is sticking his head out every now and then to give a good speech, and remind people that he is the nominee. it seems to be working in the sense that donald trump is just self emulating. that being said, when i do the focus groups and i talk to people who don't like donald trump, but they are really on the fence, they are really on the fence about potentially voting for biden, the biggest thing that they always say is, i don't know that much about him. what does he stand for? one of the things that has been surprising to me is that for somebody who has been in politics for 40 years and who is the most recent vice president, he actually is pretty undefined with voters. at some point he is really going to have to do more to present a positive and affirmative vision that give people a reason to vote for him, not just a reason for people to vote against trump. just going back to that earlier question, what could joe biden due to really mess things up? i do think that one of things that he could do is that if he comes out and in storm some
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ways starts demonstrating that he really isn't up to it, for some reason, if he -- i don't just mean one bad debate but, you can look at joe biden and think that he's lost his fastball a little bit. but i think people are willing to accept that because donald trump isn't even play the same sport. i do think he's going to have to perform at some point. people are going to have to have a reason to really vote for him, not just against trump. we've got time for one quick question. cathy, are you ready? that's >> i'm ready. i'll ask the one to have also asked. do you think there's any chance that trump will see, as we get closer to the election, that he's going to lose, and they will resign? >> now. i don't think so. i think that donald trump will
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squeeze every last ounce of juice out of everybody's attention being on him as possible, number one. because that is his psychological profile. to, he pulled the rabbit out of the hat last time and i think he believes in his own potential magic. i think that he will stay and do that. i also think that for donald trump, he is better off as president for his own legal problems that he is facing. there are a lot of pending cases against him. supreme court just came forward with a couple of other things that they are going to be able to look into further. he is much better when he can exert executive privilege. i think you are going to have to pry the presidency out of his hands with a landslide victory. maybe if some deal gets mate, about pence pardoning him, of
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all the conspiracy theories of a crazy things could happen, i think the biggest one is trump picking out nikki haley and swapping vp is at the convention. that is the one that i am most bought into being a real potentialities. it's because donald trump is a showman. he doesn't like the script right now, the narrative is bad for him. he needs to shake it up. joe biden is going to have a woman as his vp. donald trump needs to change the conversation. i think that it is possible. i've watched nikki haley very closely. she was high on my list for the person who should primary donald trump. she has moved closer and closer towards donald trump in a way that seems very strategic. i can't quite figure it out because i know that is not -- i don't believe that's what she is deep down. and maybe not haley, i don't know that she would do it, because i think she's got a
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great shot of being a nominee in 2024. if i was going to buy into, here is the crazy, crazy thing that could happen, that is what i would put my money on. >> that's fascinating. just before we shoot it back to susan for any last thoughts, what about timing duckworth? >> i should've talked about her. i don't know tammy duckworth particularly well, like a lot of the people that keep getting floated. i thought that she handled the tucker carlson knock on her extremely well. and kind of eviscerated him with her you should walk a mile on my legs before you criticize my patriotism. i thought that was good. i thought that her answer, the first thing that got in trouble the beginning, was not taking a complete stand around people taking down the washington monument.
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i think she's probably an impressive person. i do think that there is a tendency in the democrats parts to pick federal candidates. i think they do like picking senators more so than mayors and governors, which is a slightly more republican thing to do. i don't know, besides the fact that she is a war hero. what do people know about her? she could be. she's an interesting choice. my colleague, they'll crystal, this high on her as a potential pick. but i don't know. >> last thoughts, we're out of time. this one, i hate and, it's so fascinating. >> i think overall i really appreciate sarah's answers because they are questions i've had a tough time struggling with myself. we have to keep focused on what the goal is. it's two 70 for joe biden. it's to take down trump.
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and do it hopefully as decisively as we can. but let's not forget, we may be counting ballots for two or three weeks after election day if it's that close. let's beat donald trump, that's priority number one. thank you, sarah. that was fascinating. i could-less i could sit here all day listening to your brilliant -- i wish you good luck with your work. susan, you are just wonderful. i hope we have you back soon again. you are always fantastic. thank you so much. i hope this is an opportunity for us to keep a sense of community while we are all in our basements. and working for engaging in our democracy and making it better. please come next week, we've got tom rogers and his daughter jessica rogers who is an attorney. we're gonna talk about social media, the youth vote in the 2020 election. congressman eric swalwell, with
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dennis meal on the house committee investigation and the other things that he's been working on. retired colonel chris columbia with former homeland security secretary, jay johnson, on the never-ending war it seems, in afghanistan. thank you, susan. we will hopefully see both again. >> thank you.
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tonight, on american history tv, beginning at eight eastern, congressman john lewis. the 17 term democrat from georgia recently died at the age of 80, he will be buried on thursday. before joining congress, he was influential in the 1960s civil rights movement. congressman lewis gave the keynote address at the 2019 ceremony to honor pioneering african american tennis player arthur ash. watch american history tv tonight and over the weekend, on c-span three. >> congressman can but, republican of colorado with us this morning. we were giving our viewers a view of the tech companies, the ceos are testifying on capitol hill today. you are on


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