tv History Bookshelf Kasey Pipes After the Fall CSPAN October 10, 2020 4:00pm-5:01pm EDT
a look into arlington national cemetery memorabilia box placed by resid wilson and 1915. and on the presidency, the life and legacy of theodore wiles tv thiserican history weekend on c-span three -- an c-span3. kasey pipes, former adviser to president george w. bush, recounted the post-white house years of president richard nixon. he talks about how nixon counseled presidents and set precedents for what post-presidency like good involved. are pleaseding we to introduce an author on the postpresidential years of richard nixon. , often very important life.oked part of nixon's
worthy of a book, probably a series of books. he rose from defeat to become america's elder statement. he reinvented what it means to be a former president, serving as advisor to everyone of his successors. you may 29 foreign trips and world with -- worked with world leaders across the globe. to tell this remarkable story, pipes.joined by kasey he served in the administration of president george w. bush and at later a senior fellow getting's college. would you please join me in welcoming the author of quote after the fall," kasey pipes? [applause] thank you all very much.
thanks for being here. thanks for having me. john and chris and the entire nixon staff. after hearing all of the people coming up later this month, later this fall i want to come back. neil gorsuch as well. hewitt,o thank hugh president of the foundation, who was indispensable in helping me write this book. you could not be in better hands hugh.nybody else but thent to thank couple of archivists who worked with me, greg cummings and pamela eisenberg, who i understand is retired. so many people helped me along the way. fred fielding.
just tremendous number of people helped make this possible. i also want to say hello to , parents ofrry friends of ours in fort worth. pitching coach for tcu and we live right around the corner. you guys get the award for traveling the farther is tonight. you came to an half hours. i hope the book is worth it. let me know. i will be asking. and thanks to all of you for being here as well. came backfirst time i to the library was 1995, i was an intern at the ronald reagan presidential library. john taylor was running things down here and john showed us around. i will never forget it. and then it came again in 2007
with the release of the eisenhower book. the bookin 2010, once was out, i began and was able to research it and began going and spent afiles few months here doing the research. when i first started doing this i wondered is there a market for this? we were the number one new arrival on amazon ahead of the -- bill o'reilly. it was awesome. thed an interview and interviewer was a sports guy and he spent 7 -- some two minutes walking me through the
post-presidency. i said, i really appreciate you being on and you said, nixon is one of the most fascinating people. i have always been a fan of nixon. and an amazing career. i have always tried to tell the stories that have been untold but need to be told. to focus on stories that we know something about. the story let me to of eisenhower and civil rights. .
this is a story that needs to be told. we have an idea of what nixon was doing during this time. we have an idea that he was active. hopefully you will agree that he was more active than we thought. hopefully after reading this book you will realize he was more successful than you could have ever realized. ,efore delving into the book and i will take your questions at the end, i think we have to understand how high he climbed as president to appreciate how far he fell at the end of his presidency. you think of richard nixon in 1972. he opened the door on china. deal beginning talks on a to end the war in vietnam. and yet less than two years later with public approval in
the 20's, he's forced to resign and finds himself, as he says, really fighting for his life as he talks about in his diary and we will talk about that in a minute. there have been libraries of books written about his life. libraries of books about his presidency and vice presidency. crowley's memoirs which are wonderful and detailed. anson's book. sam there's never been a 20-your volume that covers the entire story of what happens to him. historians will always debate whether nixon was a great president. debate he wass no a great ex-president.
hishistory of postpresidential years is the greatest mix story that is never really been told. why a book about his life after watergate and if it is so important, why has it never been done before? the answer to the first question is simple. we have all experienced strife in stride --strife and tragedy. none of us will experience professional setbacks like he did. in a sense, it's a story about us. the other reason the story has is because then papers are privately owned by the family's. to secure the cooperation of the family in righting this book. not only is this a new book about a new period of life of nexen, but it has new material
in it. this is a very extraordinary period in the life of a very extreme very man. when richard nixon left the white house in 1974, he is no money, and no obvious way to make a living. within weeks of moving back to sacramento, he faces a health scare. he faces years of litigation through case of what was on a certainly depression. here is what he wrote in 1974 about how he might climb his way out. "write books, make speeches, and try to put things into context." this is the roadmap he would use for 20 years. write books, make speeches, television where possible, and put things in perspective for the people and history and it's amazing how well he did this.
he did this so well and it becomes -- and he become so effective and well known that people begin to accept him back. the public begin to accept him back and the president do, too will. part of the story the book is the story of the relationships of three presidents, reagan, bush, and nixon. mentioned three changes you will read about in this book. i think this is really the heart of what this book is about, is change. nixon changes the very nature of the post-presidency. post-president, there are no post presidents. they all die. nixon knew all of these men, but
he watched what they did in their retirement and what they did was very different than what he was going to do. they basically retired. eisenhower goes to palm springs after year. he writes his memoir and then he writes another book in the spring much it. he becomes a doting grandfather. johnson goes to his ranch. these are men that basically go away. nixon has no such choice. he has to make a living. he has no money. yesterday resigned from the bar in california. he has to resign from the bar in california. he wants to resign from the bar in new york and they won't let him because they want the privilege of taking him out. he has to find a way of making a living. what he does with no template is he invents the template that all ex-president to this day more or less follow. he writes books. theravels the world in
country giving speeches. he stays in contact with other world leaders. he talks to presidents. he uses the power of his ideas to influence events in washington. you think about the post presidents today. you think about clinton with the clinton fund. you think about george bush. you think about barack obama righting books. they are all, in some way, following the nixon model. nexen did not have the option of retiring. he told john taylor that he had to remain active for his own health. he spent years righting book after book on his main area of expertise, foreign policy and becomes a trusted advisor and confidant to three presidents. he doesn't just write books.
he writes books that matter, books that people read and pay attention to. he did not just say something. he has something important to say when he was riding his books -- writing his books. he showed that he had an important role to play as an outside counselor. carried his book around him for -- for one point in this house and you have an even closer relationship with nixon and nixon relished the chance. the only power he had left, which was his mind and his ideas to influence policy. he gives counsel to presidents. he influences them.
let me give you something small. nixon, shortly after reagan --es president wants to reagan becomes presidents, have a way- was to to take care of his ability. this is a guy with tremendous political ability. to the country. he can rally the country, and nixon sees this and wants to take advantage of it. early in the nixon administration, nixon sends a letter to mike deaver urging the creation of a weekly 10-minute radio talk to allow the president to dominate the monday papers. nixon suggest they do this on sunday. and the saturday morning radio address is born. that lasted from 1982 all the way until 2018 one trump
discontinued it. we've always known reagan's started it. we never knew that the idea came from a letter from richard nixon. but his real contributions came from bigger matters of substance. when gorbachev comes to power, nixon meets with gorbachev. this is a man that reagan could do business with, as margaret thatcher said. he wants reagan to meet with gorbachev, but from a position of's during -- of strength. when reagan announces his intentions to build the strategic defense initiative nixon immediately doubts the science. but he loves the idea of using it for leverage in a negotiation , and almost from the beginning he sees it as a key bargaining chip. to pullbachev threatens
out of negotiations -- remember in reykjavík, gorbachev walks out because he tells reagan, this is contingent on you getting rid of sdi. reagan says no. nixon suggest to bud mcfarlane, national security advisor, i feel very strongly the president could pull off a coup by offering to mutually share with the soviets the results of our research on sdi. --s would undercut her child which of -- gorbachev's position. he was right. he pops in men and brought him back to the negotiating table. displayed a role in getting the soviets to agree to the inf
treaty. nixonresident bush, privately went to china after the tiananmen square tragedy. he met with chinese leadership and spoke brutally blunt language to him. tiananmen, i told him would be " the death of the relationship with the u.s. if it happened again." on returning home, he reported to the president who was faced with a political crisis in washington. democrats and many republicans weren't put sanctions on the chinese. but the fact that nixon deliver the message helped defuse the situation.
he worked with boris yeltsin to assist to be -- to assist the emerging democracy. president clinton marveled at .he wisdom of nixon changes the post-presidency through his work with reagan and bush and clinton. in many ways, he changed himself. the conventional wisdom, during the watergate section of the interview, it is a myth that david frost and others have perpetuated for some time does the reality is quite different. they talked about it in advance,
what he wanted to say when this question came up and he apologized for his moral failures. would never admit to criminal wrongdoing because he did not believe he violated criminal laws. an accidentas during the frost/and at and interviews, but as a planned answer to -- frost-nexen interviews, but as a -- interviews, but as a planned answer to question. he began to reveal himself more -- become public be old public with people. when hubert humphrey was dying from cancer, he consoled his former rival. when he on up the phone, he turned to his aid that, i don't care what it takes, i'm going to his funeral. start working on it.
his wife anded said no former president should live in exile. to be seen inn public at his funeral because it would give the country a sense that there was forgiveness, that there was a grace. his first appearance in washington sense watergate -- since watergate. then he emerged at another , giving the eulogy for his friend football coach woody hayes. this is what he said. "he was never satisfied with success and he was never going to be discouraged by failure." there is a rule in life, nixon set of hayes, if you take no risk, you will suffer no defeats. risks, youtake no
will when no victories. was certainly describing woody hayes, but he was also describing himself. when bud mcfarlane survived a failed suicide attempt, where he will govern the hospital, the first person he saw sitting by his bedside was richard nixon. "you will need an anchor," he said. the bible on the nightstand. "your strong faith will get you. through this" friends abouttold the time his grandkids asked him what name he wanted to be called. can coming anything you .ant to call me," he said "because i've been called everything."
shows him as a human. this shows him as someone who struggle through the l years of life and yet came out on the other side. nixon in exile is a different man. in full. -- a man in full. onan who can look back tragedy and failure, defeat and is defined response. he never gave up and there's a lesson in that for all of us. remarkable to think that in august of 1974 when he left in disgrace, not even richard nixon could have imagined he would be back inside the white house giving president break and advice to tiananmen square, delivering a message that was important to the bush administration or meeting with
bill clinton and becoming friends with bill clinton to the 1994,that in april of arrives at the funeral to deliver a magisterial eulogy when she says, my -- may the day of judging richard nixon only by watergate come to an end. thosed nixon said only who have been in the deepest valleys can appreciate how magnificent it is on the highest mountaintop. navigatingonstantly the peaks and valleys, richard nixon could look back once enjoy the view. that is the story of "after the fall." i hope you read it. i hope you like it. with that, i am here to take questions or comments. [applause] >> thank you, kasey.
we will take questions if you will raise your hands. i will come to you with a microphone. can you give me what you think it should nixon would think of the current media arena and what -- in this dayis and age, we are so quick and spread viral instantly with social media, can you give me your take of how he would use that? >> he would certainly be more diplomatic than our current president, but i do not know that he thought were highly of them that our current resident does. there was favorable biography.
smith wrote a favorable review and nixon says to his staff, you know, the new york times once a decade will say something nice about me. i guess they just wanted to get this decade out of the way. he always had a very skeptical view of the role of the media and i'll think that improved over time. environmente media is very different, all of the different social media platforms. he was an innovator. the whole concept of these saturday morning radio address. he would be somebody looking for
ways to use those tools to visit manage and to the president's advantage, whoever that president might be. i think he would be uncomfortable with how this resident does about that. i can't imagine he would enjoy reading some of the trump and n tweets.rumpia thank you for coming and telling us about your book. i wonder if nixon ever acknowledge the sacrifices president ford made right giving him the pardon and short-circuiting any legal process. no doubt about it, it cost ford quite a bit. it did.sey: there is a scene where ford comes to see him and it's an emotional scene. i think it is as close as it t.er god'
the pardon was difficult because he did feel bad about it. expressed remorse, but he also did not feel like he is broken any law. as he said to frost, my mistake butcher. a very good he was trying to help these people in his view. yet very complicated feelings on this topic and i don't know that would evering he have thought to sit down and talk to gerald ford about. they did not have a kind of relationship. it was a formal relationship. theink the scene in hospital between the two men is probably as close as i can get to it. it's worth reading.
it certainly -- she was in an emotional states. he -- he was in an emotional states. he almost died. here comes the president. that i do not know that there was a lot of direct conversation between the two. about some ofalk the post-resignation relationships? halderman, coleman, and specifically henry kissinger. how are those relationships after? kasey: they were all very different. the kissinger relationship is very different. has just written a book about that and how the two men jockeyed for credit over foreign policy accomplishment. it was a complicated relationship for sure. i think his relationship with some of his aides was a little
more personal. and again, he felt their suffering very personally, particularly the ones who went to jail. mitchell and ehrlichman and haldeman. haldeman gets out of jail. emotionaltty conversation. he felt their grief very personally. there are a lot of the stories and their and conversations. and soul of the book is to show him emerging from in 1974tional states and 1975 and really focusing on his policy objectives and taking him seriously as the next president and what he was trying to achieve.
tends to focusk on those relationships. team, schultz,s headache, mcfarlane, bush, james baker, bill clinton. those are described in more detail. you get a sense through the dialogue and those conversations of how much it weighed on him. he definitely felt a burden for each of those men. hello, i'm a republican woman from northern california. americanuralized originally born in taiwan. i have two questions.
activitye for my son's and when i was going through the museum i was very puzzled, why is it that president nixon later ron would go to china and establish that kind of relationship with china knowing that china is a communist country when i saw in the he said it was, clear we had come to a consonant tottering on the brink of starvation -- consonant tottering on the brink of starvation and chaos -- inent tavern onnt the brink of starvation chaos. later on he feels so comfortable.
up i don't think i was taught properly in public education. i really feel after going through the exhibit that i don't think president nixon did anything wrong. i don't think he needed to resign. i wish he had stayed on and let the world know what kind of person he really is. the real criminals were the ones who broke into the building. i wonder if he felt compelled to do what he did because of national security. they were dealing with a lot of communism. those are my comments. kasey: there's a lot to impact their. let me start with the first one. you mentioned nixon being a cold
warrior. he was. china was part of his strategy. i think this is misunderstood that he was naïve about china and he wanted to have good relations and bring pandas back to our zoos get the photo op. this is realpolitik. trying to drive a wedge between china and the soviet union. it was a brilliant strategy. use -- you can't simply ignore a country of 750 million, at that time. there is a story -- i can't remember where i heard it. it may be apocryphal. reagan was visiting with some time when he's leader and reagan said someone was going to
recognize china sooner or later. you're better off it was nixon. he was doing this from the position of a cold warrior. he was not naïve about what the chinese were doing. he was capable of being brutally honest with them. even in later years. he viewed it as a cold war strategy, as a way to separate them from the soviets. you can debate the wisdom of that. i can only tell you what he, himself said. he certainly felt that he made moral mistakes. i screwed it up, he often said. he viewed his role in this as essentially trying to cover for his friends who were doing these
things. he resigned because he did not believe he had enough support to sustain himself in the senate. because heresigned knew it was best for the country. these are questions that historians will debate forever and hopefully this book sheds somewhat new life on it. hi, can you share with is the role that pat nixon had president nixon's rise from the ashes? rock. she was his just as when he was president. she was his cheerleader. she felt he had been dealt a really bad hand. andys did feel that way
they remained enormously close. of course, they had -- he had a series of health setbacks. there's a fascinating pat nixon story toward the end of the work where she is watching television in the late 1980's and she is watching "the film donahue show, of all things, but who shows up but new york businessman donald trump and she watches the show and she is impressed and she tells her husband, i watch donald trump on -- i watch donald trump -- i watched donald trump on the television. trump a letter. he said, if you ever want to run for office you will be a winner. that letter is framed in the
oval office today. it's interesting. handicapping politics. he never quit looking at races and potential leaders. he wants bill clinton to deliver his eulogy. he realizes the symbolism of that, having a democratic president deliver this magisterial tribute. but he also wants bob dole and people said to deliver eulogies. -- pete wilson to deliver eulogies. speech is magnificent as well, if you recall. he stages that. wilson does run for president. he does not run very well, but he ends up getting the nomination, which was basically what nixon addicted was going to be.
mindfascinating how his worked and how he was always thinking several steps ahead. >> hi, i appreciate your scholarship. i want to ask this with all due respect. a biography on general eisenhower and i just finished jean edward smith's biography "eisenhower in war and peace." there are all these tidbits about nixon, and it does not seem like nixon was well-regarded by president eisenhower. i know one question was asked of general eisenhower -- what does nixon contribute to your administration? he said "give me a week and i will think of something." there's the 30 campaigning, the
racial epithets caught on -- dirty campaigning, the racial at this caught on tape. he's a very checkered, dark, dark character. .ou talk about his redemption what is the heart of nixon? i cannot quite make out -- make out his objective in life? before i answer that, let me tell you my favorite story from the eisenhower book written by went to dallas to's he might former boss, the president, and i took him a copy of my book. man.a very blunt he said, what's this? i said, it's a book about eisenhower and civil rights. i'm surprised is
not a shorter book. [laughter] kasey: that's what you need to read the book. in terms of what kind of hard did nixon -- heart did nixon have, he had the same kind we all do. there was good and bad in it. watergate.arts after i don't spend a lot of time focusing on that. watergate happened, we have had libraries of books written about it. --t did he do about a main what did he do about it as a man? he certainly wanted to reestablish himself. he never used the word "come back," or anything like that. he wanted to be useful. he wanted to have a role with
the rest of his life, and the one thing he still had after he lost all the trappings of power and the levers of power, he had the power of his mind. the power of his ideas. that he was able to persuade presidents that he had something worth listening to. this is a remarkable achievement. that is quite a comeback. motivationsernal were -- i can get inside his mind any better than anyone here can. and doed to be relevant something meaningful and to this
book argues that he did. just as richard nixon post-presidency has not been studied that much, i feel like reagan's post-presidency has not been studied. there's more than just alzheimer's. do you think that that would be a good topic for a book? kasey: i do. bob spitz's new book has a lot of material. there is an amazing story about reagan's doctors coming to the air and while they mrs. reagan, he
writes the book -- he read the letter. whyiven to an agent said, don't you clean the sub? they released it as it was. it was an amazing story. i think in general, post presidencies are fascinating. you are looking at presidential biographies, you are looking at the use of our. with the post-presidency, you are looking at the loss of power and adjusting to life without that power -- in this case, a much more dramatic way. so, it's a fascinating topic and we now have presidents who are living longer lives. george w, based on his genetics will live into his 90's. barack obama is a healthy, fairly young person. -- definitely interesting he
area of scholarship is probably .nderdone >> couple questions. did he reach out to the other presidents and ask if they needed help? he was at the cusp of so many different things. did you learn anything in your book and how is he compensated? was he paid as a consultant? was it gratis? how that go? >> obviously, his books were bestsellers. , but was money out there in terms of his relationship with the president, he never said, hey, let me help you out.
it was usually in the form of a memo or a letter -- in the case hey, you didwas, great in the election. ng.y usually came in writii that builds the relationship and the phone calls start and the phone calls are typically from the white house to him and they are calling him and asking for advice. it's bill clinton who reaches out to him. process.ry subtle .e is saying things that matter he is saying things that no one thought about or --about four. -- about before.
he's offering ideas that these presidents and their staffs find very useful. became aibute that he .rusted confidant extremelys aggressive. should nixon be called to the white house, what common steve think he would have to offer? >> is hard to say. nixon viewed china within the context of the cold war. it's very difficult to judge because that was motivating's so much of what he wrote and. but in some ways the tiananmen episode is insightful. it shows him not -- it shows him
willing to speak in tough language to them. he certainly believed that a nation of more than a billion people now could not be toward and they were a player on the world stage and they might as well have some kind of relationship work their own say. he would try to preserve that relationship with tough love. it's a great question that. -- it's a great question though. >> hi, i'm from texas. i did hear you on hugh hewitt. if, --urious if he had context -- contact with nixon. the other one is -- i think i'm
carter came tod hearings.ontra were speaking so the carter was all over the place, not hasnized, but nixon -- that stuck with me so many years that he was a brilliant man, very organized in his thinking. do you have anything like that .n the book kasey: colson remained a until the end.on there is some relationship there that's documented in the book. iran contra is fascinating. had a unique perspective on scandal. is the know if this
story you're referring to. but he was delivering a speech to senators. they write the story about this and he basically says, you need to have raven -- reagan back on this. if his staff made mistakes, that's one thing. he was not trying to do anything wrong. on him.t and run it's fascinating to see him. carter is not someone that nixon thought very highly of. that's well-documented. he is just sort of mortified of the hostage crisis. he's mortified at how the shah that.eated before but this is all setting the stage for reagan and for big
things to happen in the 1980's right aboute he is that. carter does appear in the book, but not in a terribly flattering light. talking about richard nixon -- hisg relevant diplomacy and foreign policy, do you have any feeling that he had any sense that if it was not publicly knowledged in his lifetime was he satisfied he was relevant? i think he certainly sensed how far he made it back area i don't know if a person with that kind of intellect and ambition, i do not know if satisfies the word i would use.
but you certainly realize you couple away in -- realized yet, long way. he realized the policies that he , he certainlyft lived to see the triumph in the .old war he says, remember when i have the kitchen debate and chris nikitaid "will bury -- khrushchev said "i will bury you." he had one. the west and one. that was remarkable for him.
certainly he had become relevant again and he had enjoyed being expertise which he wanted even more. thank you for giving us this insight on the past president. one of the things that i knew about him was he came from very humble beginnings. unlike most presidents who have great support before they get to office. rapidly.ed and of course he has files in all of that. but his per's stiffness. i believe the man had vision so far out. i think he saw the 750 million ignored which we had for train five years that she
saw that teaming up with soviet -- what an overpowering force , and he sawave then the opportunity to talk to china and that scared the russians into saying maybe we ought to talk about defense moderation. i think he was very perceptive. goldo think when the standard was in trouble we lost too much gold. so we had to take this off the gold standard. don't youstion is feel that he felt very satisfied with the changes he made? i cannot believe that he was not totally satisfied.
he wished he could have lived longer. >> i think he's certainly appreciated how far he had tom. i worked for a president. they are wired a little jenna -- differently than you and i are. wake up in the morning and say i want to be president, is not a very rational aim to do to be honest. my sense is he wanted a little bit more. as is in the book. he talks about his term being abbreviated and his presidency .eing abbreviated i think some of those feelings come out. but this is the next best thing. he could help others and it is a remarkable story. >> thank you very much.
ladies and gentlemen, it's give him a round of applause. [applause] >> i think i heard at least half a dozen times "it's in the book." that book is on sale in our museum store. pick up a copyk. asey -- pick up a copy. will be in our front library to autograph it. kasey: thank you very much. >> "history bookshelf" features the best known american writers of the past decade. >> tonight, j buckley --
discusses the lewis and clark expedition after the we as a purchase. here's a preview. >> they started to encounter a lewisent landscape and forged ahead to make sure they were on the right stream and he was separated from the group and period he was nearly killed by a buffalo bull, a badger, and a grizzly bear. entire kingdome .as conspired against me the bear did not eat him. he survived that. and he arrived at the great falls and he rose that she wrote
-- this is such as when did view. he said i was so much disgusted with the imperfect idea that i was determined to begin again, but then i thought perhaps i could not do better than the first impressions of my mind. so he has this idea that he cannot write down how cool this -- place is. . the rest ontch "lectures in history" >> with -- "lectures in history." >> we're looking back at this date in history. how would you define the difference between you and senator dole. jim, i believe the federal government should give people
the tools to make the most of their own lives. that to me, is the key. --t leaves me two different leads me to different conclusions than senator dole. we have reduced the size of government. but i have worked hard for things like the family and medical leave law, the brady bill, the assault weapons ban, the program to the 100,000 police on the streets. all of these were programs that senator dole opposed that i supported. i have worked hard. i supported the v-chip so parents would be able to control what their kids watch on television when they are young along with the rating systems. this is a big increase of the
safe drug program. they are helping individuals and families make the most of their own senator dole: the basic difference is, and i have some experience in this, the basic difference is that i trust the people. the president trusts the government. go back and look at the health care plan he wanted to impose on the american people, 1/7 of the total economy, 17 new taxes, price control, new bureaucracies at a cost of $1.5 trillion. in't forget that happened 1993. a tax increase, tax everybody in america, not just the rich. if you make $25,000, you've got your social security tax
increase, a btu tax turned into a $35 million gas tax and a $265 million tax increase. i rely more on the individual. i carry a card in my pocket called the 10th amendment. where possible, i want to give power back to the states end back to the people. >> follow us on social media on c-span history for more this day in history clips and posts. >> author john turner talked about his book, "they knew they were pilgrims: plymouth colony and the contest for american liberty." he discusses the colony's views on religious and political liberty, as well as the residents' practice of enslaving native americans that they fought with. museums on the green hosted this event and provided the video. mark: this is the 400th anniversary of the mayflower voyage to plymouth.