tv Presidential Debates 1996 Presidential Debate - Clinton v. Dole CSPAN October 28, 2020 9:31pm-11:07pm EDT
looking at past presidential debates. thursday night it's the 2000 debates between vice president al gore, and texas governor george bush. topics included tax policy, education reform, and abortion. we will also show the candidates acceptance speech of their parties conventions. it starts at 8 pm eastern. enjoy american history tv, this week and every other weekend, on c-span 3.
>> in 1986 president bill clinton and republican presidential nominee bob dole debate -- debater. twice next their first debate which focused on domestic issues. jim lehrer moderate at the debate. >> good evening from the theater, in connecticut, i am jim lehrer from the news, our on pbs. welcome to the first of the 1996 presidential debates, between president bill clinton the democratic nominee, and senator bob dole, there were republican nominee. this event has been sponsored by the commission on presidential debates, it will last in 90 minutes, following a format and rules agreed by the campaigns. there will be two minute opening and closing statements. in between, a series of questions. each having three parts. a 92nd answer a 62nd rebuttal,
in a 32nd response. i will assist to candidates in adhering to those time limits, with the help of a series of lights, it's about to both. under their rules, the candidates are not allowed to question each other directly. i will ask the questions, there are no limitations on the subjects. the order for everything tonight was determined by a coin toss. now, for the opening statements, president clinton. >> mister president. >> thank you jim, and thank you for the people who host us. i want to begin by saying again how much i respect senator dole, and his record. and how hard i worked hard to try to make this campaign in this debate one of ideas, and not insults. four years ago i ran for president, at a time of high unemployment, and rising frustration. i wanted to turn this country around with the program of opportunity for all, responsibility from all, and an american community where everybody has work to deploy.
i wanted a government to be smaller and less bureaucratic, to help people have the tools to make the most out of their own lives. four years ago, you took me on faith. now, there is a record. ten and a half million more jobs, rising incomes former cloying rates. the strong america, at peace. we are, better off than we were four years ago, let's keep it going. we cut the deficit by 60%, now let's balanced budget, and protect medicare, medicaid, and education and the environment. we cut taxes for 15 million working americans, and we passed a tax cut for education and help with medical of age -- emergency provide at home. we passed medical, even all it's expanded, so more people can succeed as parents and in the workforce. we passed 100,000 police assault weapon, brand now let's keep going by finishing the work if putting the police on
the street. and tackling toobin i'll gangs. we passed welfare reform, snow let's move 1 million people from welfare to work. and most important, let's make education our highest priority so that every eight year old will be able to read, every 12 year old can log on into the internet, every 18-year-old can go to college. we can build that bridge, for the 21st century. and i look forward to discussing exactly how, we're going to do it. >> senator dole, two minutes. >> thank you. >> thank you mister president, for this kind world -- words. i think the people of hartford, the commission, and all of those who may be listening are watching. it's a great honor for me to be here, standing here is a republican nominee. hunter proud to be the republican nominee and reaching out to democrats and independents. i have three very special people, my wife elizabeth, my daughter robin, who never let me down, and a fellow named
frank, from new york, who helped me out on the mountains of italy, a few years back. i've learned from them that people do have tough times. and sometimes you can't go at it alone. and that's what america is all about. i remember getting my future back from doctors and nurses, a doctor in chicago, and ever since that time i tried to give something back to my country. to the people who are watching us tonight america is the greatest place in the face of the earth. millions of you still have anxieties, you work harder and harder, to make ends meet, and put food on the table. you worry about the quality of the safety of your children, of their education. but even more importantly, you worry about the future.
and will i have the same opportunities, that you and i have had? and i want to share with you some ideas tonight. jack camp is my running mate, he's doing an outstanding job. i'm a poorly speak and men, and i learned long ago that your word was your bond. and i promise you tonight, that i will try to address your concerns, and not try to exploit them. it's a tall order, but i've been going against the odds, for a long time. and again, i'm honored to be here this evening. >> mister president first question, there's a major difference in your view of your own federal government and that of senator goal. how would you define that difference? >> well, jim, i believe the federal government should give people the tools to try to establish the conditions, in which they can make the most of their on lies. that to me, is the key. and that leads me to some different conclusions, from
senator dole. for example, when we reduced the size of the federal government, to a smaller size in 30 years, we reduced more regulations, elevated more programs, than my to republican predecessors. but i have worked hard for things like the family and medical leave law. the brady bill. the assault weapons ban. the program to put 100,000 police on the street. all of these programs that senator dole opposed, and i supported. because i felt they were a legitimate effort to help people make the most of their lives. i've worked hard to help families, import valleys to their own children. i supported the -- so their parents would be able to control what their kids watch on television, when they are young. along with the riding system for television and educational television. i supported strong action against the tobacco companies, to stop from marketing advertising and sales of tobacco to young people. i supported a big increase in the safe and drug free school program. these were areas on which senator dole and i deferred.
but i believe they were the right areas for america to be acting, together, as one country. to help individuals and families make the most of their own lives, and raise your kids with good values, and a good future. >> senator dole, a one minute. >> i'd like -- i think the basic differences, and i've had some experience in this, i think the basic differences like trusted people. the president trusts government. if we go back and look at the health care plan that he wanted to impose on the american people. one seventh of the total economy, 17 new taxes, price control, 35 to 50 new bureaucracies, a possible 1.5 trillion dollars. don't forget that in 1993. the tax increase that taxed everybody in america, not just a rich. he made 25,000 in his original post, from social security tax increase. we had a beat you tax turn into 35 billion dollar gas tax. and 265 billion dollar tax
increase. i guess i rely more on the individual, i care -- carry quite on my pocket, the tenth amendment. were possible, i want to give power back to the states, and back to the people. that's my difference for the president, and my specific difference is later, he noted a few. but there are others. >> mister president, 30 seconds. >> i trust people, we've done a lot to give the people more powers to make their on the stations, along with their own lives. but i do think we are right when we try to for example, give mothers, and newborns, 48 hours before they can get kicked out of the hospital. ending these terrible deliveries. i think you are right to pass the act on kennedy bill, which says you cannot lose -- lose your health insurance because you lose your job, or someone your family is safe. our government is smaller and less bureaucratic and it has given more authority to the states, then it's two predecessors on a republican presidents. but i do believe we have to help our people get better to succeed, and the 21st century. >> senator goal, the president
said his opening statement, we are better off today than we were four years ago. do you agree? >> when he's better off than he was four years ago. >> i agree with that, that's right. >> and i may be better off four years from now. i don't know, i look at the slowest growth in a century. he inherited a growth of 4.7, 4.8%, and now it stands about 2.4%. we're gonna pass 1 million bankruptcies this year, for the first time in history. we've got stagnant wages, in fact women's wages have dropped 2.2%, men's wages haven't gone up or gone down. so we have stagnation. we had the highest format that in history, and it seems to me, that if you take a look, are you better off? well i guess some may be better off. saddam will say it is better off, then he was four years ago,
probably. someone else might be. but are the american people, that are working harder and harder, and pay more taxes, for the first time in history you pay about 40% of what you earn, more than you spent for food clothing and shelter,, combined, for texas, under this administration. so some might be better off, they talk about family income, that's not true in connecticut, family income is down. and it's up in some cases, because both parents are working. one works for the family, and one works to pay taxes for the government. we're gonna give him a tax cut, so he spent more time with his children, and maybe even take a vacation. that's what america is all about. >> well let me say first of all, in february, senator dole acknowledge that the american economy was in the best shape it's been in 30 years. we have ten and a half million more jobs, a faster job growth rate than under any republican
administration, since the 1920s. wages are going up for the first time, in a decade. we have record numbers of new small businesses. we have the biggest growth in the numb -- drop in the number of people in poverty in the 27 years. we have the biggest drop in income inequality and 27 years in 1995, the average families income has gone up from 1600 dollars just into our economic plan passed. so i think it's clear we are better off than we were four years ago. now we need to focus on what do we need to do, to be better off still? how can we help people to get their retirement? how can we help small businesses? to be able to afford small -- health care, to be able to educate the children? that's what we're focusing on we were clearly better off than what we were doing for years. ago he acknowledged, at this year. >> senator dole? >> i doubt that i acknowledge, did this year. but in any event, i think we just look at the facts. we asked people who are being tonight, are you better off, then you are four years ago? if not -- it's not if we are better, off or if they are better off? are you working hard to put
food on the table? feed your children? are your children getting better education? drug use has doubled in the past 44 months, all across america. crime has gone down because mayors like rudy giuliani, where one third of the drop happened in one city, new york city. so yes, some may be better off. but the people listening tonight, the working families, who would benefit from an economic package, they'll be better off when bob dole is president. >> mister president, senator dole has gone pretty close in the last few days of accusing him of lying about his position on medicare reform, have you done so? >> absolutely not. let's look at that position, first of all remember that in this campaign season, since senator dole has been a candidate, he has bragged about the fact that he voted against medicare, in the beginning, in 1965. one of only 12 members. he said he did the right thing, then he wouldn't work at the time. that's what he said. then he asked -- has a budget that he passed
along to get medicare 270 million, dollars more than necessary to repair the medicare trust fund. it would've tracked seniors more four out of pocket cost, and in premiums, because doctors could church a more. the american medical hospital this association, the nurses association, the catholic hospital association, all said hundreds of hospitals could close, and people would be hurt badly. under this medicare plan, that i vetoed. and now, with this risky 550 billion tax, skin senator dole, even his own friends and campaign co-chairs, say that they can't possibly pay for it without cutting medicare more. and current -- and cutting social security as, well according to. him now, my balance budget plan adds ten years to the life of the mayor daycare trust fund. ten years. it will have time to deal with the long term problems, of the baby boomers. but it was simply wrong, to finance their last thing, cut medicare by billions, to have
this running by the vine. we always had to reform over the years, but we need someone who believes in it, to reform it. >> senator goal? >> well i must say, i look back at the vote on medicare, 1965, we had a program called elder care, that also provided drugs, and test, still people who needed medical. i've supported medicare, in the sense that i used to call my mother, and she would tell me that bob, all i have is my social security, and my medicare. don't cut it. i wouldn't violate anything my mother said, in fact we had a conversation about it with my mother one day. we talked about our mothers when, day very potent conversation in the white house. i'm concerned about health care, i've had the best health care, guardhouse but, an army hospitals, and i know it's important. but we have to face it. it's his trustees, the presidents just, he's not mind, that say it's gonna go broke. he doesn't fix it for ten years. we ought to appoint a commission, just like we did
for social security and 1983, when we rescued social security. and i was proud to be on that commission, along with the champion of senior citizens reform, in florida and we can do it again if we take politics out of this. stop scaring the seniors. you've already spent 45 million dollars scaring seniors, and tearing me apart. i think it's time to have a truce. >> well let me, say first of all, i'd be happy to have a commission deal with this. and i appreciate what senator gold it on the 83 security -- security commission. we will be possible to do, if he is tax schemes passes. because even his own campaign co-chair, senator -- says he will have to get medicare even more, then was cut in the bill, without veto. now i vetoed that bill because it cut more medicare, and basically run the risk of breaking up the system. my balanced budget plan, puts ten years on the medicare, we ought to do that, and then we can have a commission. but senator dole's plans are not good, for the country. >> senator dole, speaking of
your tax plan, do you still think that's a good idea? the 15% across the board tax cut? >> oh yes, and you will be eligible. >> me too. >> and so will the former president. >> i'll need it. >> people need, it that's a point. this is not a wall street tax cut. it's a family tax cut. this is a main street tax cut. 15% across. what's a family making across a year, that's 1261 dollars now may be some in this bush known memorial, that's not a lot of many people. but people who are watching, couple of, kids, families working, that's four or five months of daycare, maybe a personal computer, and maybe three or four months of mortgage payments. this economic back is about families, but it's six point package. first of all it's balanced budget, amending the constitution,, which he twisted arms and got six democrats to vote the other way, we lost by one vote. it's balancing the budget by
the year 2002. it's a tax cut, cutting capital gains, 50%. to create more jobs, and more opportunities. it's a state tax relief. it's a 500 dollar per child tax credit. it's about litigation reform, not that the president gets millions of dollars, or he would like to fight this provision. in fact, when i fell off that -- , before i left -- hit the ground i had a call on myself phone for a trial lawyer i said i think we have a case here. and it's also regulatory reform. it's a good fact that mister president would like to have your support. >> mister president? >> well here's a problem with it. it sounds very good. but there is a reason that 500 economists including seven a low price winners, and business periodicals, like business week and even senator dole's friend, former republican senator for new hampshire, said it is not a practical program. it's a tax scheme, that will cause a big hole in the
deficit. which will raise interest rates, and slow down the economy and cost people to pay more for home mortgages car payments, credit card payments college loans, and small business loans. it's not good to raise the deficit we work too hard to lower. and he will actually raise taxes on, it and an addition to that, it will force bigger cuts in medicare and medicaid education and the environment and the lens that he had passed that i vetoed last year. so it sounds great, but our targeted tax cut for education, child raring, health care, and home buying, which is paid for in my balanced budget plan, something that he has not done, certified other congressional voting office. that's the right way to go. >> senator dole? >> he didn't increase spending 20% of them next year, i want to increase spending 14%. that's how simple it. is i want the government to pitch pennies for change, instead of the american families. we're talking about six percentage points over six years. and with that money, you give it back to the working people. he also provided opportunities
scholarships, of low income parents, that wouldn't have the same choice as others have to sign your children to better schools. and it would work. what it does work, mister president finally will congratulate me. >> mister president, senator mentioned travelers, and that means campaign finance and. how do you personally avoid being under the influence by people who give you money, or give your services in your campaign? >> while i try to articulate my position sars clearly as possible. tell people want to stand for, and if they decide whether they're gonna support me are not in the. case of the liability bill, which they pass in a vetoed, i think that's what he's talking about. i actually wanted to sign that bill, and i told people exactly what kind of beloved sign, and a lot of the trial lawyers say wanted to sign any bill at. all and i thought we had to do what we could to cut the losses. they wouldn't make some of the changes that i thought should be made. let me just give you an example,
i had a person in the oval office, who lost a child, in a school bus accident. where a drunk driver caused the accident directly. but there was a problem from the school bus, the trump driver had no money. under the new bill, if i had signed it, a person like that could never had had any recovery. i thought that was wrong. so i gave four or five specific examples to the congress, and i said to me that these people could recover, but we're gonna eliminate further lawsuits, outside of the bill. but generally, i believe that the president has to be willing to do what he thinks is. right i've done a lot of things that were controversial my economic plan, my trade position, bosnia, haiti. taking on the nra for the first time. taking on the tobacco for companies for the first time. sometimes you just have to do that, because you know it's right for the country, over the long run. that's what i've tried to do, and that's what i will continue to do, as president. >> senator dole? >> how does he avoid conflict? well i don't know, in the case of the trial lawyers. when you are a few minutes
george, you want to hollywood, you pick up two to 4 million in organized labor, comes to washington d.c. and puts 35 million into the pot. these aren't special interests and i have a lot to learn. i was here for about before i left on june 11th. the trial lawyers -- my wife is a lawyer where the only two lawyers in washington who trust each other. but were lawyers, i like lawyers i don't dislike trial lawyers. but it seems to me there's got to be some and to these frivolous lawsuits, there has to be some impunity down. and you're putting a lot of business people out of business, small businessmen and small business women, who pay 70% of your 19, 265 billion dollar tax increase. the highest tax increase in the history of america, i said that one day and a democrat said no in the history of the world. so i modify did, the largest tax increase in the history of the world. it seems to me that, there is a problem there, mister president. and i will address you, mister president. you didn't do that, with
president bush, in 1992. >> let me say, first of all, i signed a reform bill that dealt with civilian aviation a couple of years ago. i signed this to perform. secondly, senator dole has had some pretty harsh comments about ten inches my. but it wasn't me who opposed to what we try to do to save the lives of children, who were subject to tobacco. and then went to the tobacco growers, and bragged about standing up for the federal government, when we tried to stop the advertising marketing and sales to tobacco to children. and it wasn't me who led to polluters actually come in the halls of congress, into the rooms, and rewrite the environmental laws. that's what senator dole did, not me. >> that's not true. >> so i believe we should take a different approach to this, and talk about how we stand on the issues, instead of trying to characterize each other's motivations. i think senator dole and i just honestly disagree. >> senator dole, let me ask the same question i asked the president, how do you avoid being influenced by people
contributing money and services your campaign? >> i think it's very difficult. to be honest about it. that's why we need campaign finance reform. that's why i reach out to the probe, owners and like we've done, in the reform party of the republican party. and the pro voters are looking for they want to take a look at the republican record. whatever it is, whatever they check, it's all done with campaign finance reform. i worked with senator mitchell, who played me, i guess in the debate warm up, we tried six or eight years ago to implant a three people to get campaign finance reform. we can get it done, because the president wasn't forceful. he suggested -- i suggested that at least four or five years ago. we have a commission on campaign finance reform. they sent them to congress, we had to vote it up or down. that's how it works. whenever gonna fix it by the parties, the democrats want to advantaged him selves republicans want to advantage and selves, and that's not how it's gonna w!g.c. but i want to touch on this tobacco thing. i know the president has been puffin a lot on that.
i want to go back to 1965. that was my first vote against tobacco, when i said we ought to label cigarettes. i've had a consistent record ever since 1965. we passed a bill in 1992, is that encourage the states to adopt programs to stop kids smoking off 50 states did it, it took three and a half years. and went until election years mister president you never thought about stopping smoking. what about drugs that have increased double, in the last 44 months? cocaine is up 100 and 44%. marijuana -- cocaine, is 100 66%. it seems to me that you have a selective memory and you know my doesn't work that way, so i'm just trying to correct it as we go along. >> mr. lehrer i hope you have a chance to talk trump later in the program. but let me and what you said. i do agree to many incumbent politicians in washington, in both parties, have consistently opposed campaign finance reforms. that was certainly the case in
and i got. they're so after senator dole took over the congress, i went to new hampshire, hyde amendment jested a gentleman, that unfortunately just passed away a couple of days ago, he suggested that we appoint a commission, and i shook hands with him on it. and the commission ever met. good point senator dole, senator mccain, along with senator fine go, they supported -- sponsored a campaign finance reform proposal. i strongly supported it, and members of senator dole's on party, in the senate killed it. and he was not after urging the vote for the bill. so i think the american people, including the dole supporters know that i've had a consistent record in favor of campaign financial, reform and i will continue to have. and i hope we can finally get it. and again, in the next session of congress. because we needed, badly. >> senator goal, 30 seconds. >> well on campaign reform itself, we're gonna get a, one we have a bipartisan commission. take it out of politics, get people who don't have any interest in politics, to understand the issue. and let them make
recommendations to congress. we're not getting anybody, mister president, the sophisticated people watching this, militant meals of americans know the republicans haven't done, it in the democrats have -- won two. it >> mister president, the senator has suggested in the past that you are uber some responsibility for the rise and drug use in teenagers, in the united states, is he right? >> well, jim, i think every american in any position to be responsible should be concerned about what's happening. i am. but let's look at the overall record. overall in america, cocaine use has dropped 30% in the last four years. casual drug use now 13%. the tragedy is, that our young people, are still increasing their use of drugs. about 11% total, with marijuana -- are you want to. i regret, it and let me tell you what i try doing with that. we let our efforts on the south
border to try to stop them coming into our nation. the most heavily directed decorated soldier uniform went there. we submitted the biggest drug budget ever. we have dramatically increased control, and for us at the border. we supported crime bill that had 60 death, including the death penalty for drug. and i supported the big expansion for safe and drug free school program, to support things like the dare program. because i thought all of those things were very important. i do i think that i bear some responsibility for the fact that too many of our children still don't understand drugs are wrong, trucks and kill you? even though i have consistently opposed the legalization of drugs, all my public life. and worked hard against him? i think we all do. and i hope we can do better. i don't think this issue should be politicized. because my record is clear, and i don't think the senator supports the use of youth in drugs. i think we have to continue to work on this, until those who think it is not dangerous, and won't kill them, and won't destroy their lives, get their message, and change.
>> senator? >> again, you're very selective, mister president. you don't want to politicize jokes, but it's hard to politicize medicare, and go with this carrot senior citizens. in other vulnerable groups like veterans, and people who get bail, grants and things like. that any new say we've done all of these bad things, which is not the case. but it seems to me, the record is clear, the record is pretty clear in our concern, the governor because he thought it might interfere with treatment. but he cut the drugs, by 83%, and you cut interdictions substantially. that's what i want to keep cutting from coming across the border. and administration, we're gonna train the national guard from coming across the border. and this is an invasion of drugs from all over the world. and we have a responsibility, he had a surgeon, before general kathy, you had considered legalizing drugs is not the kind of leadership we need? and i will not comment on other things that have happened.
in your administration, in your past, about drugs. but it seems to me, the kids ought to stop and they just don't do it. >> mister president? >> let me say again we did have a drug issue in arkansas, but we answer to it just like we thought we ought to do. secondly, senator dole you voted against a crime bill, and you had the death penalty for going in the kingston. and you voted to cut the service to 23 million schools, in the drug free schools act. i don't think that means you are soft on, drugs i think we just have a different approach. well i'm reminding that my family has suffered from drug, abuse i know what it's like to see somebody you love nearly lose your lives. and i hate drugs, senator. we need to do this together. and we can. >> senator dole, on the government, continuing to talk about the government's role, if elected president would you seek to repeal the brady bill,
and the betting on assault weapons? >> not if i didn't have a better idea. but i've got a better idea. something i've worked on for 15 years. it's called the automated check, or the instant check it's being used in 17 states right now, states like florida, colorado, virginia and other states. you don't buy any gone, you don't get any gun. we have 20 million names in a computer in washington d.c. of people who should not have guns. we have to keep guns out of hands of criminals, and other categories that should not have guns. i've been working on this for a long, long time. you walk in, you put your little card and they, or if it says tilt, you don't get any gun, you don't get a handgun, you don't get a rifle, you don't get a shotgun. you get zippo. here gonna protect american children, and american families, and people who it was prisoners in their own homes, we have to stop guns from being dumped on
the street. administration says they support the instant check, they appropriated about 200 million dollars, but the only spent about 3 million to get it on the way. in our administration, mind ministration, we will expedite this, it keeps up with technology, it keeps guns out of the hands of people who should not have guns, that is the bottom line. and i believe it's a good idea, a strong bipartisan support, and perhaps that's another thing we can deeply decides. you talk about the brady bill, there's only been one prosecution under the bitter -- brady, bill one under the assault weapon ban. and one under the brady bill,, that you talk about all the time. but on the assault weapon ban, out of 17 weapons that were banned only six now,, because 11 have been modified. let's get together on this instant check. because i'm willing to make a difference. >> let me say, first of all. senator dole is going back and forth about whether he would be for repealing the bill, or the
assault weapons plan. and i think his present position is that he would not do so, in fact, i'm grateful for it. but let's look at the facts, here. the brady bill has kept, at least, 60,000 fell in, fugitives and stalkers from getting handguns. senator dole let the fight against the brady bill. he tried to keep it from coming to my desk. he didn't succeed, and i signed it, and i'm glad i did. then when we have the assault weapons ban, in the senate, senator dole fought it bitterly. and oppose the entire crowd bill, and almost brought the entire crown bail down. because the national rifle association didn't want the assault weapons ban. just like it unwanted brady bill. but two years later, nobody's lost their handguns, i mean they're rifles. we've expanded the brady bill to govern people who beat up their spouses, and their cases. and this is a safer country. so i'm glad i took on that fight, and i believe, with all respect, i was right, and he was wrong.
>> while the president may have been right. it seems to me that in times the assault weapon ban was not effective, that's history. after the nra that's history. you're not gonna worry about, it i'm not gonna worry about anymore. let's do something better. let's stop playing political game, mister president, talking about this and this. you went up the stage in used the instant check and how many weapons were kept out of the hands of criminals. you have four surpasses henry mentioned. so in my view,, if you want to be protected, you have to vote for bob dole, and get the instant check pass. we'll keep guns out of the hands of criminals. >> the senator dole said the other day that there was a photo op in foreign policy that has less in the credibility of the united states, throughout the world. is he wrong about that? >> if that's what he said, he is not right about that. look at where we are, today. the united states is still the indispensable nation in the aftermath of the cold war and on the brink of the 21st century. i have four to support our
country, as the world's strongest fourth -- force for peace, freedom, prosperity and security. we have done the following things. number one, we managed the aftermath of the cold war. supporting a big drop in nuclear weapons, in russia. the removal of russian troops from the baltics. the integration of central and eastern european democracies, into the new partnership. with nato. and i'm on the head of the democratic russia. there's no nuclear missiles pointing to the children of the united states, tonight. and have not been in our administration, for the first time, since the dawn of the nuclear age. we have worked hard for peace, and freedom. when i took office, haiti was governed by a dictator, that identified the united states, when i took office the worst war in europe was waging in bosnia. now, there's democratically elected presidents, peace in bosnia, we just had elections there we made progress in
northern ireland, and the middle east. we've also sent up to the new terrorist and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. organized crime, and we have worked hard to expand america's economic presence around the world, with the biggest increase in trade for the largest -- . that's one of the reason america's number one. >> senator? >> well i have a different view, again i supported the president on bosnia. i think we were told to, troops would be out of here now and i understand that's been extended until sometime next year. but, let's start with somalia. where they drag the americans through the streets, 18 americans were killed one day because they don't have, they had been pinned down for 18 hours. they didn't have the, tanks asked for the tanks, they didn't get the tanks from this administration, because we were a nation building who was called mission free we turn over to the united nations. the president didn't have much to do about. it look at haiti, where we
spent about three billion dollars in gun alarm called two weeks, ago they have to send down some more people, because the president found out their desk wasn't in his own property. so we need more protection from america. bosnia, northern ireland, there's no cease fire and bosnia i think there's still lot of problems in bosnia. we agreed to train an army of muslim so they could defend themselves, the policy had that you ran in 1990, to we had that, we are way behind. which means americans can't come home. americans should have gone, there in the first place. how do we let them defend themselves, as they have a right to do, in article 57 of the united nations charred. >> mister president? >> first of all, i take full responsibility for what happened in somalia but the american people must, remember that those soldiers were under and an american commander when that happens. i believe they did the best day could, under the circumstances and let's not forget that hundreds of thousands of lives were saved their. secondly, in haiti, political
violence as much, much smaller than it was. thirdly, in bosnia, it's a virtual miracle that there has been no return to war, and at least, there has now been in an election. and institutions are beginning to function. in northern ireland, in the middle east, we are better off than we were four years ago. there will always be problems in this whole world, but a four moving in the right direction, and america is leading, or better off. >> senator dole, if elected president, right criteria would you use to decide when the u.s. troops into harm's way? >> well, after world war one, we had, you know, a policy of disengagement. then from world war i to world war ii we had sort of a compulsory engagement policy. and now, i think we have to have a selective engagement policy. we have to determine when our interests are involved, not the united nations interests. and many of the things the president talked about, he turned over to the united nations. they decided. he's deployed more troops than any president in history around
the world. it's cost us billions, and billions of dollars for peacekeeping operations. look, these are facts. and it seems to me, that when you make a decision, and the decision is made by the president of the united states, by the commander-in-chief. he makes that decision, when he commits young men or young women, who are going to go around, and defend our liberty, and our freedom. i would be my position. and i'm gonna have a top down review, at the pentagon, not a bottom up review. we'll fight over how much money is there. i want to talk down would be to determine what our priorities are, and what we should do in the fence, and then follow that policy, instead of this bottom up review, with all of the service is fighting for the money. you know, the president said he was going to cut the fence, 60 billion dollars, he got defense 112 billion dollars. devastated states like california and others, and i think now, we've got a problem. we have to go back and look. it's just like you said, in texas one day, you know you raised taxes too much, and you did, and you get defends too much, mister president, and you
did. you may have said that, to. but the bottom line is, we are the strongest in nation in the world of, we provide the leadership, and we are going to have to continue to provide leadership. but let's do it on our terms, when our interests are involved, and when somebody blows a whistle at the united states. >> our military assist youngest military in the world, it is the strongest best prepared best equipped, it has ever been. there is very little difference in the budget that i proposed, and the republican budget over the next six year period. we are spending a lot of money to modernize our weapon system. i have proposed a lot of new investments, to improve the quality of life for our soldiers, for our men and women in uniform, for their families,, for their training. that is my solemn obligation. you asked why do you decide to deploy them? the interests of the american people must be a steak. our values must be a steak. we have to be able to make a difference, and frankly, we have to consider what the risks are, to our young men and women in uniform. but i believe the evidence is
that our deployments have been successful. in haiti, in bosnia, when we move to kuwait to rebel saddam saints threatened invasion of kuwait. when i have sent a fleet, into the taiwan straits, when we worked hard to end the north korean nuclear threat. i believe the united states is at least tonight, in part because of the discipline, careful, effectives appointment, of our military resources. >> senator dole? >> well i failed to mention north korea and cuba, while i. go look at north korea where they have a plutonium, six nuclear bombs we can sort of distance ourselves from, our allies stay have created the korean war, are the forgotten war. we lost 53,000 americans. we shouldn't be doing any favors for north korea. it's a closed society. we don't have any inspection, we don't know if it's going to work or not. but we keep giving them incentives. someone called them something else. incentives. we don't know what's going to happen. here we have cuba, 90 miles from our shores, and what we have we done? we passed a law that day people
are right to sue, and the president postponed it for six months. and it seem to me, if you want to send a signal, you've got to send the signal, mister president. the sooner the better, off will be if you put tougher sanctions on cast, you are not try to make it easier for him. >> mister president, what is your attitude toward cuban and how cuba should be treated? >> well first of all, for the last four years, we have worked hard to put more and more pressure on the castro government. to bring about more openness, and move towards democracy. in 1992, before i became president, the congress passed the cubit immoderately act, and i enforced it vigorously. we make the embargo tougher, but we increased contacts people to people, with the cubans. including direct telephone service, which was largely supported by the cuban american community. then, cuba shut down two of our planes, and murdered for people in international airspace. they were completely beyond the pale of the law.
and i signed the helms britain legislation. senator dole is correct, i did gave about six months before the effective date of the act, before lawsuits can actually be filed, even though they're effective now, and can be legally binding. because i want to change cuba. and the united states needs help from other countries. nobody in the world agrees with our policy and cuba now, but this law can be used as leverage to get other countries to help us to move cuba to democracy. every single country in latin america, central america, and the caribbean, is that democracy tonight but cuba. and if we stay firm and strong, we will be able to bring cuba around as well. >> that's the point i made, we have to be firm and strong, and i hope that will happen. i'm hoping it will happen next january. maybe we can have a balanced this, year it had not been firmed and, strong you look at the port of people who still live in cuba it's a hate in for
smugglers, or we don't have a foreign policy when it comes to fidel castro, in my view but policy has failed so congress passes along with the president and signs, like a lot of things, like welfare reform, i don't assigned it but i want to try to change it next year. a lot of these election years converge and the president talks about all the drug, money and all the other things, all of these anti-smoke campaigns, all happening in 1996, and i think the people viewing ought to go back and take a look at the record. when he fought a balanced budget amendment. when he gave that biggest tax increase in history. when you try to take over your health care system. when he fought regulatory reform that cost the average family six to 7000 dollars a year. this is serious business. it's about your family. it's about your business. and in this case, it's about a farmer policy with cuba. >> there were several off the subject qualifiers in that litany. let me just mention, senator
dole voted for 900 billion dollars in tax increase. his running mate, jack camp, once said that bob dole never met a taxi did not hike. and everyone knows, including the wall street journal, hardly a friend of the democratic party or this administration, that the 80 to tax increase sponsored in inflation adjusted dollars was the biggest tax increase in american history. so we ought to at least get the facts out here on the table so we can know where to go from here. >> you mentioned health reform several times. what do you think should be done about the health care system? >> let me first answer that question about the 1980 to tax cut. we were closing loopholes, we were going after big corporations. i know you probably would oppose it, mister president, but i think we should have a fair system and a flatter system, and we will have a fair and flatter system and we're going to make the economic package work. health care, we finally passed the kassebaum bill. the president was opposed quit in 1993. he wanted to give us this big system. it took about one seventh the
economy, what price controls, created state alliances, and would've cost 1.5 trillion dollars and forced people into managed care. whether they wanted to or not. most people want to see their own doctor. they are going to see their own doctor when bob dole is president. we won't threaten anybody. so we passed the kassebaum-kennedy bill which will cover 20 to 25 million people. we've been for that for four, five or six years. the president held up. and then when it finally got near passage, senator kennedy held up for 100 days, because it wasn't satisfied with one provision. but it will cover pre-existing conditions. if you change your job, you're going to be covered. so there are a lot of good things in this bill we should have done instead of trying to take this massive takeover by the federal government. but then of course, we had a democratic congress, and they did not want to do that. until we got a republican congress, we finally got action. i'm proud of my colleagues in the republican party for getting that done. it means a lot to a lot of people watching us tonight. >> that sounds very good, but
it's very wrong. senator dole remembers well that we actually offered not to even put in a health care bill in 1994, 93, but instead to work with the senate republicans and it riding a joint bill. -- in writing a joint bill. and they said no because they got a memo from one of their political advisers saying that instead they should characterize whatever we did is big government and make sure nothing was done to eight health care before the 94 elections so they could make that claim. well, maybe we bit off more than we could to, what we are pursuing a step-by-step reform now. the kassebaum-kennedy bill that i signed will make it possible for 25 million people to keep their health insurance when they change opt or when someone in their family gets sick. i signed a bill to stop these drive by deliveries when insurance companies can force people out of the hospital after 24 hours, and i vetoed senator dole's medicare plan
that would have forced a lot of seniors into managed care and taken a lot of my money out of their pockets and lead to medicare without -- withering on the vine. >> many of the provisions on the kassebaum-kennedy bill were my provisions, like detection for long-term care, making certain that self employed people that are watching tonight can deduct not 30%, but 80% of pay for premiums. you can also deduct long term care now. so it's a good start. i think there's another way of looking at our text to proposal, our economic package. there may be a way of reaching out to the uninsured, because there's a lot of uninsured people in this country, particularly children, that should be covered. another way you can do it is to expand medicaid. in america, no one will go about health care, no one will go without food. >> senator, go ahead and finish your sentence. >> all right, food. >> [laughs] >> back to foreign affairs for a moment, mister
president. are you satisfied with the way you handled this last iraq crisis and the end result? >> well, i believe that because the appropriate thing under the circumstances. saddam hussein is under a un resolution not to threaten his neighbors court threaten his own, repress his own citizens. unfortunately, a lot of people have never been concerned about the kurds as the americans have tried to be. we've been flying an operation to protect them out of turkey for many years now. what happened was one of the turkish, one of the kurdish leaders invited him to go up north, but we felt since the whole community -- war community had told him not to do it, that once he did it, we had to do something. we did not feel that i could commit, i certainly didn't feel i should commit american troops to throw him out of where he had gone and that was the only way to do that. so the appropriate thing strategically to do was to reduce his ability to threaten his neighbors. we did that by expanding what
is called a no fly zone. by increasing our allies control of the airspace, from the kuwait border to the suburbs of baghdad. was it the right thing to do? i believe it was. was it fully effective? it did make him withdraw from the north? well, he has a little bit and i hope he will continue. we have learned that if we give him in and she will take a mile. we had to do something. even though not all of our allies supported it at first, i think most of them now believe that what we did was an appropriate thing to do. >> senator dole. >> well, the presidents own cia director says saddam is stronger now than he was. i don't understand extending the no fly zone in the south when the trouble was in the north. and what we've done during the bush administration, the kurds were at the state department negotiating and trying to work their differences out. now we've got thousands and thousands of refugees. we're even shipping 3000 kurds to guam. it involves turkey. it's a real problem that saddam
is probably stronger than he ever was. we shot 44 cruise missiles that are about 1 million or two apiece and hit some radar that was repaired in three days. did we inflict any damage? no. did we have any allies helping? well, we have great britain, they are always very loyal to us and i appreciate that. and of course, kuwait, even though they had to find out they had 5000 troops coming. they did not even understand that. we had to get their permission. the bottom line is that we went there in -- we went there alone. we are supposed to be operating under a un resolution. we did it without any of our allies that helped us in the gulf. >> senator dole has two or three times before tonight criticize me for working with the un. now i'm being criticized for not working with the un. >> it was not the un. >> sometimes the united states has to act alone, or at least has to act first. sometimes we cannot let other countries have a veto on our foreign policy. i could not send soldiers into the north of iraq, that would have been wrong. i could reduce saddam hussein's
ability to threaten kuwait and his other neighbors again. that's what i did. i still believe it was the right thing to do. >> senator dole, on your photo op foreign policy charges against the president. >> not mine. >> oh, no, i mean your charge against the president. that he has a photo op foreign policy. does the middle east summit last week ball into that category? >> well, there were some good pictures, but does it fall in that category? i don't know. i want to be very serious. i've supported the president when i thought he was right on bosnia. i supported him on nafta and get. so it's not that we always disagree, others disagree with us. the middle east is very difficult. but it seems to me just as an observer that, before you would call someone to america, you'd have some notion of what the end result might be. maybe it's better to get together and sit down and talk.
maybe that was the purpose. i know talks have started again today. but again, it's almost like an ad hoc foreign policy. it's sort of we get up in the morning and read the papers, what countries in trouble, will have a meeting. to me, that's not the strategy that i think people expect from america. i think we've lost credibility. i say this very honestly without any partisanship. we've lost credibility around the world. our allies know, -- they're not certain what we are going to do, what our reaction, what our response is going to be. nobody suggested sending troops to iraq, if that was the hint there from the president, but i do think that saddam hussein is stronger than he was. i do believe that we did not gain a great deal in the middle east by bringing three of the four leaders, one refuse to come to washington d.c.. >> we have a very consistent policy in the middle east. it is to support the peace process, to support the security of israel, and to support those who are prepared
to take risks for peace. it is a very difficult environment. the feelings are very strong. there are extremists in all parts of the middle east who want to kill that peace process. prime minister rabin gave his life because someone in his own country literally hated him for trying to bring peace. i would like to have had a big organized summit, but those people were killing each other, rapidly. innocent arab children, innocent israeli people, they were dying. and there is so much trust that has broken down in the aftermath of the change of government. i felt that if i could just get the parties together to say let's stop the violence, start talking, commit to the negotiations, that would be a plus. now today, the secretary of state is in the middle east and they've started negotiations and all those leaders promised me they would not quit until they resolve the issues between them and got the peace process going forward again. >> senator dole.
>> well, i was disappointed. the president has not cauldron unconditional into the violence. it seems to me the violence that stopped when these leaders came to america. the killing and tragedies had taken place and it is a tragedy. it is a difficult area. no doubt about it. it should not be politicized in any way by the president or by his opponent. i don't intend to politicize it. i hope they've talked and reach some result and that the killing will end. >> mister president, in your acceptance speech in chicago you said the real choice in this race is, quote, whether we build a bridge to the future or a bridge to the past, about whether we believe our best days are still out there or our best days are behind us, about whether we want a country of people all working together or one where you are on your own, and quote. are you saying that you believe senator dole is a man of the past, and if elected president,
that he would lead the country backwards? >> well, i'm saying that senator dole said in his speech -- his find speech in san diego, that he wanted to build a bridge to the past. and i think i know what he meant by that. he's troubled, as i am, by some of the things that go on today. but i believe america is the greatest country in human history because we have maintained freedom and increasing prosperity by relentlessly pushing the barriers of knowledge, the barriers of the president, always moving to the future. that's why when i became president that i was determined to kind of move beyond this wholesale debate to have gone on in washington for too long to get this country moving again. that's why we've got a country with ten and a half million more jobs in record numbers of new businesses and rising incomes and falling crime rates and welfare role rates. that's why we're moving in the right direction. i'm trying to emphasize that what i want to do is to continue to do that. that's why my balanced budget plan will still invest and grow this economy.
that's why i want a tax cut for education and child rearing, but it's got to be paid for. that's why i want to continue the work we have done over partisan opposition to work with communities to bring that crime right down until our streets are all safe again. these are my commitments. i'm very oriented towards the future. i think this election has to be geared for the future. i think america's best days are still ahead, but we've got to build the right bridge. >> senator dole. >> you know, the president reminds me sometimes of my brother kenny, who is no longer alive. kenny was a great talker. and he used to tell me things that i knew were not quite accurate. so we always had a rule, we divided by six. maybe in your case maybe just to. but 11 million new jobs and everything, i mean the president can't take credit for everything that governors are doing, whether it's happening in new york city when it comes to the murder rate, and then not be responsible for the bad things that happened, whether it's drug use or something else in america. so it seems to me that we can
talk about what we call kenny, a great exaggerate or. he just liked to make it sound a little better, made him feel better. when it comes to bridges, i want to reach the future. i also want to bridge to the truth. we have to tell the truth. we've got people watching tonight and listening tonight trying to find the truth. and the truth is there's a lot wrong with america. we need a strong economic package. we need a tax cut. we need the 500-dollar child credit, and we will have that soon. >> mister president. >> i do not for a moment think i'm entitled to all the credit for all the good things that have happened in america. but where i have moved to work with the american people to help them have the tools to make the most of their own lives, i think i should get some credit for that. i also personally took responsibility tonight when senator dole ask me about the drug problem. but, you know, i think my ideas are better for the future. senator dole voted against
student loans, against head start, against creating the department of education. if he gets elected president, we will start the new century without anyone in the cabinet of the president representing education in our children. i personally don't think that's the right kind of future for america, and i think we ought to take a different tack. >> senator dole, do you still favor eliminating the department of education? >> yes. i didn't favorite when it was started. i voted against it. it was a tribute after president carter's election to the national education association, who spent a lot of delegates -- delegates to the democratic convention, who gives 99.5% of their money, democrats, and the president, and a lot of the teachers send their kids to private schools or better public schools. so what we want to do is call opportunity scholarships. some say you're republican, you can reach out to these people. i reached out to people all my life. i've worked on the food stamp program, proudly. and the program and the school
lunch program with senators like george mcgovern, hubert humphrey and others, to name a few of my democratic friends. i'm not some extremists out here. i care about people. i have my own little foundation that's raised about 10 million dollars for the disabled. i don't advertize it. i just did, i haven't before. i tried to do a lot of things that i think might be helpful to people. but it seems to me that we ought to take that money we can say from the department of education, put it into opportunity scholarships and tell little landale shakespeare out of cleveland, ohio, and tell your mother and father you're going to get to go to school because we're going to match with the state puts up and you're going to get to go to the school and your choice. i don't fault the president or the vice president for sending their children to private schools are better schools, i applaud them for it. i don't criticize them. but why should everybody have that choice? why shouldn't low income americans and low middle income americans? i'm excited about it. it's going to be a big, big opportunity for a lot of people. >> let me say first of all, i'm all for students having more
choices we worked hard to expand public school choice and might balanced budget bill. there's funds for 3000 new schools created by teachers and parents, sometimes by business people, they are called charter schools that have no rules. they are free of bureaucracy and can only stay in existence if they perform and teach children. the ones that are out there or doing well. what i am against is senator dole's plan to take money away from all the children we now help with limited federal funds and help far fewer. if we're going to have a private voucher plan, that ought to be done at the local level and the state level. but senator dole has consistently opposed federal help to education. you voted against student loans. he voted against my improved student loan plan. he voted against the national service bill. he voted against the head start bill. he voted against our efforts in safe and drug free schools. he has voted against these programs, he does not believe it. that's the issue. 90% of our kids are out there in this public schools and we need to lift their standards and moving forward with the programs like those i've outlined in this campaign. >> i need to correct the
president. i don't know what time it is, what is probably getting late. but i want to correct the president. all these things i voted against, they were probably part of some big package that a lot of pork in it. a lot of things that we should not have added and probably voted no. i've supported all the education programs. i've supported head start, i think we have to look at it. i don't want to think anybody out there to think we've just been voting no. let's give low income parents the same rights that people of power and prestige have in america and let them go to better schools. let's not, let's help, let's turn to schools back to the teachers and back to the parents and take it away from the national education association. >> mister president, what is wrong with the school choice proposal? >> i support school choice. i support school choice. i have advocated expansions of public school choice alternatives and i said the creation of 3000 new schools that we are going to help the states to finance. but if you're going to have a private voucher plan, that ought to be determined by states in localities where they're raising and spending most of the money.
i simply think it is wrong to take money away from programs that are helping build basic skills for kids, 90% of them are in the public schools, to take money away from programs that are helping fund the school lunch program. that are helping to fund the other programs that are helping our schools to improve their standards. our schools are getting better. our schools can be made to be even better still with the right kind of community leadership and partnership at the school level. i have been a strong force for reform. and senator, i remind you that a few years ago when i supported teacher testing while in my home state, i was pretty well lambasted by the teachers association. i just don't believe we ought to be out there running down teachers and attacking them the way you did at the republican convention. i think we ought to be lifting them up and moving our children forward. and let me just say that budget that you passed that i vetoed would've cut 50,000 kids out of head start. it would have eliminated the american or plan and it would have cut back on student loans and scholarships.
it would have. that's a fact. that's one of the big reasons i vetoed it. we need to be doing more in education, not less. >> well, americorps program, if that's one of your successes, i would not have talked about it too loudly. it cost about 27,000 dollars -- 27,000 dollars to pay people to volunteer. we've got 4 million young people volunteering every year. the number hasn't gone down. and you pick out 20,000 whether they need the money or not. and they get paid for volunteering. i like and people. i like teachers. i'm a product of a public school. you attended private school for sometime in your life. i like teachers. you're not for school choice. you can't be for school choice because this is that special interests money again. when you get 99.5% of the money, we don't know what happened to the other 0.5%. we're looking for it. somebody got it, but it all went to democrats. and this is part of that liberal establishment, one of those liberal things that you just can't do. your four school uniforms and curfews and you're opposed to truancy.
now that's not reform, mister president. why can't landale shakespeare in cleveland or pillar gonzales in milwaukee give their children opportunity to go to better school. some schools aren't safe. some schools aren't even safe. your choice is nothing. let's give them a real choice. the kind of choice you head and the kind of choice a lot of people have in america. if we want to stop prime 18 age pregnancy, let's start with education. >> first of all, senator dole, let's set the record straight. i was able, for two years when i was a very young boy, to go to catholic school, but i basically went to public schools on my life. i've worked hard for a long time to make them better. 90% of our kids are there. you ... it's amazing to me, you are all for having more responsibility at the local level for everything except schools. we don't have very much money at the federal level to spend on education. we ought to spend it helping the 90% of the kids that we can help. if a local school district in cleveland or anyplace else wants to have a private school choice plan like milwaukee did, let them have at it.
i might say the results are highly ambiguous. but i want to get out there and give a better education opportunity to all of our children and that's why i vetoed the budget that you passed with 30 billion dollars in education cuts. it was wrong and my plan for the future is better. >> senator dole, at the republican convention you said the following and i quote. it is demeaning to the nation that within the clinton administration, the core of the elite to never grew up, never did anything real, never sacrificed, never suffered and never learned, should have the power to fund with your earnings their dubious and self serving schemes, and quote. whom precisely and what precisely did you have in mind? >> i had precisely in mind a lot of the people that were in the white house and other agencies have never had any experience, who came to washington without an experience. they were all very liberal, of course, or they would not be in the administration. their idea was that they knew what was best for the american people.
now, i feel very strongly about a lot of things. i feel strongly about education. i want to help young people have an education, just as i had an education after world war ii with the gi bill of rights. and we've had millions of young men and women in subsequent wars changed the face of the nation because the government helped with their education. the reason they don't -- the reason the president can't support this is pretty obvious. it's not taking anything away from schools. it's new money. it's not going to be taken away from anybody else, except will downsize the department of education. this is a very liberal administration. this is in administration they gave you the big tax cut. this administration tried to take over health care and impose a governmental system. this is the administration that fought regulatory reform that is putting a lot of small businessmen and small business women out of business. this administration fought the balanced budget amendment and vetoed a balanced budget and vetoed welfare reform twice, and the list goes on and on and on. that's what i had in mind.
i want people in my administration, and we will have people in my administration, who understand america. there won't be ten millionaires and 14 lawyers and the cabinet. there will be people with experience and people who understand america and people who made it -- who know the hard knocks in life. >> when senator dole made that remark about all the elitists, all the young elitists in the administration, one of the young men who works for me who grew up in a house trailer looked at me and said, mister president, i know how you grew up. who is he talking about? and you know this liberal charge, that's what their party always drags out when they get in a tight race. it's sort of their golden oldie, you know. it's a record they think they can play that everybody loves to hear. and i just don't think that toggle haunt this time. the american people should make up their own mind. we cut the deficits for you zero for the first time before we world war ii.
we've got ten and a half million new jobs. we've got record numbers of new small businesses. we've made every one of the mueller juggle for a tax cut. we've got declining crime rates, two fewer -- 2 million fewer people on welfare rolls before welfare reform passed, and a 50% increase in child support in a crime that would 60 death penalties and 100,000 police and the assault weapons ban. the american people can make up their mind about whether that's a liberal record or record that is good for america. liberal, conservative, put whatever label you want on it. >> i think it's pretty liberal, i'll put that label on it. you take a look at all the programs you've advocated, mister president. thank goodness, if we had a republican congress there. the first thing you did when you came into office was set up the stimulus package. we've got a little pork we want to scatter around america, 16 billion dollars. and even some in your own party couldn't buy that. i remember talking by telephone. i'm not even certain you were too excited about it. i never repeat what i've talked to the president about. but in any event, we saved the taxpayers 16 billion dollars.
then came some of the programs and then came health care and then came the tax increase. a lot of these things just stopped in 1994 because then the congress changed. i think we've done a good job. >> mister president, if you're not a liberal, describe your political philosophy. >> i believe that the top purpose of politics is to give people the tools to make the most of their own lives. to reinforce the values of opportunity and responsibility and to build a sense of community so we are all working together. i don't believe in discrimination. i believe you can protect the environment and grow the economy. i believe that we have to do these things with a government that is smaller and less bureaucratic, but that we have to do them nonetheless. it's inconvenient for senator dole, but the truth is i've reduced the size of government more than my republican predecessors. and i did stop them, i admit that. i sure stopped their budget. their budget cut enforcement for the environmental protection agency by a third. it cut funds to clean up
testing -- toxic waste dumps with 10 million about our kids still living within four miles of a toxic waste dump, by a third. it ended the principle that polluters should pay for those toxic waste dumps unless it was very recent. their budget weekend our support for education, 30 billion dollars, they even cut funds for scholarships and college loans. their budget cut 270 billion dollars in medicare and, finally, their budget withdrew the national guarantee of health care to poor children, families with children with handicaps, the elderly in nursing homes, poor pregnant women. it was wrong for the country and calling it conservative won't make it right. it was a bad decision for america and would have been bad for our future if i had not stopped it. >> well, the president can define himself in any way he wants, but i think we have to look at the record. go back to the time he was, what, texas director for george
mcgovern. george mcgovern is a friend of mine, so i don't mean, but he was a liberal, a proud liberal. i've just finished reading a book, i think it's called, what is it, the demise of the democratic party talking about all the liberal influences and the administration. whether it's organized labor or whether it's the hollywood elite or whether some of the media elite whether it's the labor unions or whatever. and so i think you take a look at it. the bottom line is this, i think the american people, he recited all these bills and all these things, they want to know what's going to happen to them. they've all got a lot of anxieties out there. did anybody complain when you raise taxes? did anybody go on and ask people how are you going to pay the extra money? that's why we want an economic package. we want the government to pinch their pennies for change instead of the people pinching their pennies. that is what our message is to people watching. not all this back and forth, you voted this way, you got it that way, we want a better america as we go into the next century. >> the way you get a better america is to balance the budget and protect medicare,
medicaid, education and the environment. to give a targeted tax cut, and let me talk about the education tax cut, to let people have a 10,000 dollar deduction for the cost of college tuition in any year. any kind of college tuition. to give families a tax credit, a dollar for dollar reduction in their taxes, for the cost of a typical community college so we can open that to everybody. and then you let people save him and i.r.a. and withdraw from it without a tax penalty for education, home buying, or medical expenses. that's the right way to go into the 21st century. balance the budget and cut taxes, not balloon with this 550 billion dollar tech scheme. >> senator dole, we've talked mostly about differences between the two of you that relate to policy issues and that sort of thing. there are also significant -- are there also significant differences in the more personal areas that are relevant to this election? >> let me say first on the president's promise for another tax cut. i mean, i've told people as
i've traveled around, all you have the promise last time, vote for him in 96 and not many hands go up. so the question, would you buy used election promise for my opponent? the people want economic reform. they're having a hard time making ends meet. you have one parent go working for the government, the other one working for the family. and this is important business. this is about getting the economy moving again, this is about american jobs, and opportunities. it's about the government, as i said before beijing it's pennies for change, inside of the port taxpayers. when the major taxes, nobody runs around asking people where you gonna get the extra money? i think the government can do better. my personal differences? >> that are relevant to this. >> my blood pressure, my weight, my cholesterol. but i have a lot of health issues that don't make part of this campaign. i think he's a bit taller than i am, but i think there are
personal differences. i mean, i know i take it into a personal matters as far as i'm concerned this is a campaign about issues, it's about my vision for america and about his liberal vision for america, and not about personal things. and i think his vision is a thing of the past, i know he wants to disown it, i wouldn't want to be a liberal either, mister president. you're stuck with it. because that's your record. it's your record in arkansas, because tax increase in history. biggest crime increase in history. biggest rug increase in history. >> mister president. >> well, just for the record, when i was a governor, we had the second lowest tax growth in the state in any student. and when i ran for president, i was widely recognized for another mother advances. but the important thing is, what are we gonna do now i think a targeted tax cut is better for our future, targeted education.
with the rest of the education plan hooking up all of our -- making sure you have an army and leaving a volunteers to train or teachers, so that our eight year old can learn to read. investing in our environment cleaning two thirds of the toxic waste those plans are better, then the tax came. remember folks, even senator dole's campaign co-chair says he's got a cut medicare to pay for this. everybody has looked at, it 500 economists, seven nobel prize winners say it's bad for the economy, it's gonna blow a hole in a deficit, it's going to raise taxes on 9 million people, and require bigger cuts than when i vetoed. our plan is better, it will take us into the future, with a growing economy and healthier families. >> well i'm ready -- really encouraged, to know allow renewed friendship, and i know he appreciates it. you don't even have tax cuts in your budget, mister president, the first two years were
president. it wasn't until we had a republican congress, we haven't thought about, you talked about tax cuts. and getting back to personal differences, i think, jim, if you're a little more specific, but i think the president could clarify one thing tonight, and that's the question of pardons. i know you talked about it on the pbs show, and i've never discussed whitewater, as i told you personally. i'm not discussing it now. but i am discussing the power the president has to grand pardons. and hopefully, in the next segment you could lay that to rest. >> mister president? >> well, first of all, you know you make that remark about senator damato, i'm more familiar with his comments that are used to me. let me say what i've said already about this pardon issue. this is an issue they brought up. it's under, there's been no
consideration of, it nova scotia in of it. i will tell you, this i will not give anyone special treatment, and i was strictly adhere to the law. and that is what every president has done, as far as i know in the past, but whatever gather president has john. this is something i take seriously, and that's my position. it >> seems to me the president should have any comment at all. particularly, words someone wary of had business dealings with. i mean, it may be sending a signal, i don't know, i'm not questioning anybody. but as a president of the united states, when someone asks you about pardon, you say no comment, period. and i think he made a mistake. and i think when you make a mistake you say i made a mistake. but apparently his position hasn't changed. if there are other specific, areas beyond that, i haven't gotten into any of these things, as the president knows. we've had that discussion. and again, i know senator damato, may have had a hearing or two on whitewater, i can't
remember. but he is not my general chairman, he's a friend of mine. and so senator kennedy, a friend of yours. >> you bet. >> i remember when you on the voice and now gentlemen, let me tax your memories. and kennedy jumped up and side, why haven't we thought of that before! you, know one of your liberal friends. >> thank you. >> mister president, 30 seconds. >> no comment. [laughs] >> what's the subject matter? >> senator dole, if he could signal that one thing, but you would like voter for the voters to have in their mind about president clinton, on a policy matter, or personal matter, what would it be? something to know about him, understand it, and appreciate it. >> see, if i see anything it's going to be misconstrued.
i don't think there's even a rinse -- race between the two, it's about our vision for america. i happen to like president clinton, personally. i'm addressing him all, evening as mister president, i said in 1992 couldn't extend a courtesy to president bush. but i respect the presidency. i've served on their intimate presidents, they all have their strengths and they all have their weaknesses. so i'd rather talk about my strengths, i think i have my strength. and i think the best thing going for bob dole is that bob dole keeps his word. so question which we trust and fear, and i would say, i think, mister president about all you've got going in this campaign is fear. we are spending millions and millions of dollars in negative ads, frightening senior citizens, i know this to be a fact, because i had one told me last week, senator don't get my medicare, i'm trying to save your medicare. just as i rescued social security with my bipartisan commission. i have relatives on medicare.
are used to sign welfare checks for my grandparents. i know all about poverty, and all about need, it all about taking care of people. and that's been my career in the united states senate. i don't keep my word on the economic package. if i couldn't that taxes, and balanced budget the same time, i wouldn't look at you in the eye in your living room, or whatever you might be, and say that this is good for america. people will tell you, who served with bob dole, agree or disagree, he kept his word. that's what this race is all about. >> i'd like the american people to know that i have worked very hard to be on their side. and to move this country forward, and were better off than we were four years ago. but the most important thing, is my plan for the 24 century. it's a better plan. a targeted tax cut, a real commitment to educational reform, a deep commitment to making welfare reform work,
with incentives to the private sector, to move people from welfare to work. now we have to create those jobs, now that we're requiring people to go to work. a commitment to continuing step-by-step health care reform, with the next ship helping people who are between jobs, to access health care and not lose it just because they are out of work for a while. a commitment to grow the economy, while protecting the environment. that's what i'd like you to know about me. i've gotten up every day, and work for the american people, and work so that their children could have their dreams come true. and i believe we've got the results to show that we are on the right track. the most important thing, is i believe you've got the right ideas for the future. it and i like senator dole, you can probably tell we like each other. which you see the world in different ways. and you folks all they are going to have to choose, well you think is right. >> well i'd say the first family building the sudden was the dole bird bill, part i can't remember who was in control in. i remember working with senator
rick, off from connecticut, in the hospice program. we now have 2500 hospices. as i said, i've worked all my life when i was in your congress, i left on june 11th, because i want to the american people to know, that i was willing to give up something. president clinton run for governor 1990, and said he's going to fill out his term, but he didn't. he's president, so i guess it's a little better deal. but i want the american people to know that i was willing to give up something. i wasn't just getting more, and more power. so i roll the dice, i put my career on the line, because i really believe the future of america is on the line. we can give you all these numbers, they know me nothing. if you're out of work, you have nothing to it, or you can't have medical care. or your holding a crack baby in your arms, right now. what do you next? you know, america's best days are ahead of us. i've seen the tough times, i know they can be better. and all lead america to a brighter future. >> mister president, what do you say to senator dole's point,
that this election is about keeping once word? >> well let's look at that. when i ran for president, i said we cut the deficit in half in four, years we cut it about 60%. i said that our economic plan would produce 8 million jobs, we have ten and a half million due jobs. we are number one in auto again, record numbers of new small businesses. i said we put passed crime bill, that would put 100,000 police on the street, then assault weapons, and deal with the problems that ought to be dealt with, with capital punishment. including capital punishment for drug king pins, and we did that. i said we would change the way welfare works, and even before the bill passed, we've moved nearly 2 million people from welfare to work. working with states, and communities. i said would get tougher on child support, and child support enforcement up 50%. i said that i would work for tax relief, for middle class americans. the deficit was bigger than i thought it was going to be, and i think they're better off, all
of us are, that we got those interest rates down in the deficit down. republicans talk about, it but where the first administration that in anybody's lifetime looking at this program, to bring the deficit down four years in a row. whistle gave tax cuts to 15 million working americans, and now i've got a plan that's been out there for two years. it could've been pesto ready, but instead, the republicans shut the government down to try to force their budget, and their plan on me. and i can take that. but will get the rest of that tax relief. and so, i think when you look at those results, you know the plan i've laid out for the future, has a very good chance of being enacted, if you give me a chance to build that bridge to the 24 century. >> senator. >> well there he goes again. that line has been used before. i mean, exaggerating all the things that he did. he didn't do all these things. let's take all these four years in a row. he came in with a high growth rate, the 1990 budget agreement, which some, you know, didn't
like. he had some very tough cost controls, but a lot of pressure on congress. the snl crisis was over, the were starting to sell assets. all that money was coming in, and he cut defense for more dollars. he talked about a smaller government, or sexually less people in government, except for the fence related, jobs they are gone. in addition to the republican congress they caught 53 billion dollars. so let's just give credit where credit is due. governor angular of michigan, cut taxes 21 times, greater look a lot of new jobs. so did garner thumps, and and governor roland. a lot of people ought to deserve credit, mister president. when i'm president of the united states we're going to have a governor's counsel, and we're going to work directly with the governors to get power back to the people and back to the states, republicans and democrats. >> i think a lot of people deserve credit, and i try to give it to them. but i believe that my plan is better, then senator dole's ill-advised 550 billion dollar scheme, which also again, will
blow a hole in a deficit. our plan will balanced budget, grow the economy, preserve the environment, and invest in education. we have the right approach for the future, and look at the results. it is not midnight in america, senator. where barr often we were four years ago. all right -- >> all right, that's the last question, the last answer. let's go now to the closing statements. mister president, your first, two minutes. >> well, first jim, let me thank you and thank you senator dole, i thank you ladies and gentlemen, all of you listening tonight, for the chance you've given us to appear. i want to say, in the beginning, that i am profoundly grateful for the chance of inadvertently serving the president, in the last four years. i've never could've dreamed of anything like this would come my way in life. and i've done my best to reflect in the church is giving. the i'm part of the fact that america stronger, and more prosperous, and more secure.
then we were four years ago. and i'm glad were going in the right direction, and i've done my best tonight, to lay out my plans for going forward, to anywhere better featuring the next century. i'd like to leave you with the thought that the things i do as president, are basically driven by the people whose lives i have seen affected by what does does or doesn't happen in this country. the auto working in toledo, who was unemployed when i was elected, it now has a great job. because we're number one in auto production again. all the people i've met, who used to be on welfare, who are now working and raising their children, and i think what others could do for our country and for themselves. if we did the welfare reform thing in the proper way. i think of the men who grabbing my the shoulder winds, with tears in his eyes, and said his daughter was dying of cancer. and he thanked me for giving him a chance to spend some time with her, without losing his job, because of the family and medical leave act. i think of all the people that i grew up with, going to school
with, and why stay touch with, and who never let me forget what we do in washington effects olive out there, in america. folks we can bring that bridge to the 21st century, big enough and strong enough, for all of us to walk across and i hope you lay build it. senegal, your closing statements. >> thank you jim, thank you mister president, thank you everyone watching and listening. i want to address my remark to the young people of america. they're the ones who will have to spend most of their life in the 20 per century. they are the ones who have the challenges. there are people out there making predictions that it will not be the same. that is what you are faced with. that is what the parents are faced with. it is important. it is their future.
i would say to those i know there are more young people experimenting with drugs today than ever before. drug use has gone up. if you care about the future of america, if you care about your future, just don't do it. i know that i am someone older than you. but i've had my anxious moments in my life. i learn to feed myself and to walk into dress. i'm standing here is proof that in america the possibilities are unlimited. i know who i am and where i am from. i know where i want to take america. we are the greatest country on the face of the earth. . we do more good things for our people in our communities, our neighborhoods, than anywhere that i know of.