harbor from which it set sail. watch wednesday beginning at 8 p.m. eastern and enjoy american history tv every weekend on c-span 3. >> you are watching american history tv, every weekend on c-span 3, explore our nation's past. american history tv on c-span 3 created by american cable companies and provide american history tv to viewers as a public service. >> millersville university history professor francis bremer discusses william bradford, one of the first governors of plymouth colony. our perception of bradford has changed since their arrival. the boston public library and

new england gene logical society brought the video. >> the society and american ancestors education online programs. >> thank you, kristin. i am honored to be here and to welcome nhgs members and friends to this program. we are excited to be partnering with the boston public library again and as mentioned i'm jenevra morris and i'm with the ancestors and american ancestors is the oldest and largest nonprofit society in the world, we were founded in 1985 and help people of all backgrounds explore their past. you can learn more about our

resources, experts and education programs and 8-story research center in boston at our award winning website american ancestors.org. one of the publishers of this edition of william bradford's work of plymouth plantation, we are excited to hear from two of the editors today. this new edition offers a new transcription of the original manuscript with annotations of newly discovered information and paula peters and to learn more about this story, about the pilgrims t wampanog, i would encourage you to visit the

website. dr. kenneth, the works of jonathan edwards and jonathan edwards center and online archives at yale university. doctor is a member of the research faculty at yale school and research associate at the university of free state south africa. he offers seminars in early american and early modern religious history, as well as reading courses in all periods of american religious history. he has contributed several articles to the journal of american history, the william and mary quarterlies and new england quarterly and massachusetts historical review, among others. he has also edited or coed digited several works on jon edwards and colonial preachers. >> thank you very much, ginevra. it is my pleasure to introduce

frank bremer, who i have known for quite some time. i think i first met you, frank, when you did one of your wonderful conferences back in millersville back in 1991, if you can remember that far. i was a young graduate student, and these conferences offered the opportunity for up and coming people like myself to rub shoulders with the giants on the earth like yourself and others and to get a proper introduction to field of puritan studies. i know one session in particular where we tried to define puritanism and we just couldn't do it. but we decided that -- we knew a puritan when we saw one. that was about as close as we could get. the puritans considered it the

height of bad manners to praise someone at their face, but with frank bremer, it is hard not to do that because he is indeed one of the world's most distinguished historians of puritanism and early american history. he has a lengthy list of service, not just publications, but of service, very important part of a scholar's life given to teaching and mentoring and organizing those conferences that i mentioned and other service on various boards and committees. so he has really been a real shaper of the field, published many books and articles on a wide range of textbooks, monographs, biographies, including one of john winthrop whose paper he ed dated at the

national historical society. he is a moving force behind new england begins which we will hear about during the course of his presentation. and, of course, with the new upcoming observations on 400th anniversary of the founding of massachusetts colonies, colonized towns, it's appropriate to begin with plymouth and with this new edition of brad fords plymouth plantation, that frank and i and others teamed up with this significant and helpful project. he authored a new book, one small candle, puritans and beginning of english new england. i hope you will check that out

when it comes out in a couple months. dr. bremer will talk to us today about william bradford and plymouth, the view on 400frank, >> thank you very much. thank you very much can. and everyone who is out there and joining us for this. i hope we have enough time to answer all the questions at the end. but if there are some of your questions that don't get answered, please, feel free to email me. francis.brammer at millersville university. it's.edu, i should say. in the fall of 2016. a group of individuals representing historical organizations. in the commonwealth. and all the new england states,

met at the congregational library to form a partnership. for new england beginnings. this was a group coming together to make plans for the 400th anniversary of the settlement the plymouth. the goal was to educate americans about the cultures, plural, that shaped new england. we were and are determined to find ways to commemorate those cultures. european, native, african. rather than to follow tradition and merely celebrate one culture, that is the pilgrim fathers. to focus on education,-had unanticipated benefits. well more celebratory events that worked for large gatherings of tourists have proved impossible in this time of pandemic. many educational programs have

been able to be held. the publication of books has continued on pace. and retro specs such as this one, and even conferences have gone online. our determination to focus on multiple cultures, with the result of a shift in historical understanding, that was given impetus at the time of the 350th anniversary of the settlement the plymouth. in preparation for that event, the commonwealth of massachusetts and the descendents of the mayflower passengers, decided to invite a member of the wampanoag tribe. the people who had assisted the pilgrims through their early struggles, to address the crowd that would gather for the event. the invitation was extended to frank james. a member of the wampanoag tribe, who, at the age of 14, had taken the native name warms up. james had served in the united states coast guard in world war ii. he was a musician, a brilliant trumpet player, who was the

first native graduate of the new england conservatory of music, and a music teacher on kate todd. he was considered, presumably, a safe choice to speak in celebrations. but, when the organizing committee reviewed the text of his address, they insisted on changes. which he rightly declined to make. the invitation was withdrawn. instead, on thanksgiving day in 1970, james addressed a separate gathering of fellow natives and others on poles hill. overlooking limit harbor, and a replica of the mayflower. in the text he had prepared, for a very different audience, james admitted, as he put it, it is with mixed emotions that i stand here to share my thoughts. this is a time of celebration for you. celebrating an anniversary of a big getting for the white man in america. a time of looking back, for reflection. it is with a heavy heart that i

look back at what happened to my people. even before the pilgrims landed, he continued, it was common practice to for explorers to capture indians, take them to europe, and sell them as slaves for 220 shillings a piece. the pilgrims had hardly explored the shores of cape cod for four days before they robbed the graves of my ancestors and stolen their corn and beans. he went on to enumerate various atrocities and broken promises. and ended by saying, you, the white man, are celebrating an anniversary. we, the wampanoags, will help you celebrate in the concept of a beginning. it was at the beginning of a new life for the pilgrims. now, 350 years later, it is a beginning of a new

determination for the original americans, the american indians. >> now, frank james was not the first native new englander to remind the public of the long history and continued presence of the native population of new england. in 1838, not too far from the boston public library, where this event was originally scheduled for, at the odeon theatre on federal street, the methodist preacher and pequot indian, william ask, delivered a eulogy on king philip in which he reversed the traditional pilgrim story to transform the wampanoag to the heroes, and the english into villains. but-address on poles hill had a greater significance. became the first of an annual event called the day of mourning. which has evolved over the years in its demands and tactics. but which, at its heart,

remains an assertion of the importance of the first people of the region, that the natives called don land. the troops that the states 1970 organizing committee found to uncomfortable, remain to this day, important troops, to be addressed by all who were interested in the shaping of 17th century new england. and that was something that the organizers of new england big innings bore in mind. as we looks about what we were to do about commemoration of 1620. early in the process of thinking about the events of that year, the hyper- society of massachusetts and the new england historic and genealogical society, agreed to sponsor a new addition of william bradford's of plymouth foundation. the most significant contemporary account of the pilgrim's progress from england

to plymouth, massachusetts. the editorial team included-of yale. paula peters of the wampanoag nation and myself, the three of us here pictured. along with jeremy bangs of the american pilgrim museum in leiden. because the bradford manuscript included a list of hebrew vocabulary inscribed as part of the governor's efforts to teach himself the biblical language. we engaged yale's eric raymond to transcribe and introduce that material. the inclusion of an si by a member of the wampanoag nation is the most striking departure of this addition from previous ones. but not the only departure. i would like to discuss some of the things that make this volume unique, and then move on to talk about how working on it has helped me to revise my understanding of bradford and

his writings. william bradford began to compile in his history in 1630, 10 years after his arrival on the mayflower, and in the same year that john minter arrived in massachusetts, to take charge of the colony that would become the dominant puritan presence in new england. >> while bradford compose the work in a way that suggested he was preparing it for publication, it was not published in his lifetime. passed on in manuscript through successive generations of his family, it was used by various individuals to tell the story of plymouth. his nephew, nathaniel morton, used it in writing his own history, new england's memorial, published in 1669. later in the century, puritans increase mathur, william hubbard and cotton mather, who, drew on their own accounts of the region's history. in the 18th century, thomas

prince consulted the manuscript for his chronological history of new england, published in 1738. prince retained the manuscript. and housed it with other volumes in his collection of books and manuscripts, which was placed in the tower of the third church of boston, popularly known as old south. it was there when it was found by british troops, garretson in boston in the american revolution. one of whom, presumably brought it to new england, where it ended up in the library of the bishop of london. having been discovered there in the mid-19th century, the manuscript was eventually, after four decades of negotiations, brought back to new england in 1897. the first publication of the work was in the collections of the massachusetts historical society in 1856. while the manuscript was still in england. a commonwealth addition was published in 1898.

following the repatriation of the volume. since then, there have been a number of other additions. when our addition came out in may, someone asked on facebook, why she should buy it. because she already had five other additions. well, let me try and answer that. this is, both in its printed form and in the soon to appear online version, the most accurate transcription of the manuscript that is available. a high resolution, color scan of the original, enabled--two -- made by bradford at various points in his composition and to establish that some of the insertions and marks on the pages were made by a later user, most likely, thomas prince. is-pointed out in his introductory essay, we can judge with some degree of certainty, that bradford made at least two passages, and

likely more, to the text. stretching into the 1650s. he did not abandon his history, as some had said, but continued to try prioritizing its meaning and improve his stock. >> early on, we decided to include into the text it self, letters, which bradford had inserted into his narrative, but which previous editors had relegated to appendixes. similar, will bradford wrote on the right side pages with manuscript, he praised some later additions on the blank facing pages, such as this one. we also incorporated these into the main text, as bradford intended. the result of these decisions was to produce the material as the author had planned. >> another feature of the new addition is how we have approached the adaptation. the last major addition had

significant annotations. that produced by the family of elliott morrison in 1952. our understanding of puritan religion, the pilgrim experience in leiden, plymouth colony's society and economics, and native history, have substantially changed in the decades since. and there have been substantial advances in chronicling the rise of the first colonists. we wish to incorporate these new insights into this addition, including putting the greater sensitivity to the native perspective in the notes, as well as within all of peter's introductory a phase. charles anderson was particularly helpful in the details of pilgrim lives. while jeremy bangs brought to bear his expertise on all aspects of the story. >> one of the most notable accounts of the story of the plymouth colony, bradford's history is not the only

stories. edward winslow, one of the leaders of the colony, who would serve for a time as governor, and then as an agent of the colonies to the english government, is generally considered the principal author of the journal of the beginnings and proceedings of the plantation settled in plymouth, published in 1622, and generally known as morse relations. >> winslow also published a number of other works dealing with the colonies early history. including the news from new england, hypocrisy unmasked, and new england salamanders. thomas morton and other enemies of the colony, published their own accounts of the pilgrim adventure, accounts that were much more critical. some early sympathetic historians, including nathaniel morton and william hubbard, had the advantage of speaking to men and women who were themselves played a part in the colonies story and incorporated those tales into their own

narratives. >> drawing on all of these, we made an effort to include in our adaptation, material that sometimes supplemented, but occasionally contradicted, bradford's narrative. equally significant, our notes draw on bradford's other writings. during the last decade of his life, he composed three dialogues, as they are known, accounts of the religious dimensions of the story, organized as its changes between the ages of the colonies and members of the younger generation. two of the three survive. they were, in many ways, unfiltered. and in them, he dealt far more with the religion of the pilgrims, then he did in his history. bradford, also per composed pomes. something relatively common among the educated men of the time. dealing primarily with history and religion, the holmes were then used in which he also

expressed feelings , that he tempered in his history. finally, he compiled a letter book, in which he copied correspondence that told the colonies story. and which he drew on when he wished to insert into the text, c considered important. only a portion of that manuscript survives. but, it indicates the scope of the original. the first x then page contains a letter from the colonies investors, written in 1624. that page is numbered 339. suggesting a vast number of items from early years that we would love to know about. >> it in drawing on the letter book, bradford sometimes omitted portions of the letters he was including in his history. where those significance are significant, we have printed them in the annotations.

as all of this might suggest, the task of producing this 400th anniversary of plymouth plantation was much more complex than i had originally imagined. and in working on it, i learned much more about william bradford and his colony than i had previously known. that is what i wished to reflect upon in the time remaining. >> in historical writing in general, including the history of early new england that i focused on, it is important to start against accepting orthodoxies without question. drawing distinctions at the expense of ignoring commonalities. and achieving priority at the expense of neglecting nuances. over the past decade, i have revisited a variety of subjects. i previously dealt with. and asked myself have i been guilty of any of these errors? i found that i had succumbed to the fallacy of presenting new england as boston writ large. overlooking the significant differences between the

colonies and within each of them. i didn't always spend enough time examining the differences between the various representatives of so-called orthodox puritanism, such as the differences between leaders such as john winthrop and thomas douglas. i accepted without question, the idea that amber ship in colonial churches required a conversion, rather than recognizing that the primary value of those relations was an evangelical tool to help others. >> recently, as i suggested in my-last evening, i have been questioning the assumption that the only stories of puritan women were telling were those of dissonance. like anne hutchinson and mary dyers. it was with this background of questioning standard interpretations, that i began

work on the bradford addition and simultaneously on a study of the religion of the puritans that is due to be published by oxford university press in a few months. one of the things the evidence led me to question, was the term pilgrims. as it was intended to distinguish the plymouth settlers from puritans. >> there were two elements to this. one centered on the way the plymouth story was told by the generations after the revolution. who start to identify the essence of the new nation. for the most part, these early national historians and politicians want the pilgrims with the puritan settlers from new england, and extolled them all as founders of american democracy and exemplars of the search for religious toleration. pilgrim accomplishments were enumerated in speeches financial leaders such as john quincy adams and daniel webster. the descendents of the mayflower, held annual parades and dinners to celebrate their forefathers. but by the early 20th century,

the story was being revised. of those who felt constrained by the moral codes of the victorian age blamed the puritans. and in the process, mischaracterized them in many ways. this attack on the puritans is perhaps best encapsulated in the writings of the 20th century, tater, hl mencken, who says that puritanism is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, maybe happy. >> literary scholars such as -- and van would rooks argue that puritanism suppressed creative intellectual growth. scholars who sought economic drives as the essence of history argued that the search for whelp was the driving force behind the settlement and growth of new england. popular culture came to misunderstand puritans as

theocratic, misogynistic, repressive prudes with bad fashion sense, who executed those who disagreed with them and earned which is. in essence, historical fashion went from praise that ignored the blemishes to the heart of puritanism to concentrating only on those blemishes. for those closely connected to the plymouth story, it became desirable, even imperative, to distinguish the pilgrims from the puritans. and there was some evidence that seem to to point in this direction, or at least support it. during the late 16th and early 17th centuries, english church authorities had attacked puritans who were struggling to reform the church from within, by saying that their views inevitably lead to separation. and thus, destroyed the unity of the church. in order to retain their credibility as reformers, rather than revolutionaries,

most puritans had denied any connection with separatists, such as the ancient church in amsterdam. and john robinson's congregation in leiden. >> scholars who bought into this position ignored the many things that most puritans had in common. in common with the separatists. and emphasized the one issue which did drive them. focusing on the debate between separatists and other puritans, on whether it was necessary to leave the church of england, one could easily find evidence that the two groups were hostile to each other. further evidence of distancing could be found in the religious debates that accompanied the english civil wars of puritan revolutions of the 1640s and 1650s. advocates of presbyterianism, such as scott, robert bailey, sought to discredit english

congregationalists as offshoots of separatism, by way of new england. to free themselves from being targeted as separatists, colonial authors, such as john cotton, vigorously denied that their church policy was derived from the pilgrims, or any other separatist influence. >> many historians bought this argument with a number of influential scholars denying the significance of the pilgrim colony in the shaping of new england religion. perry miller, who did much to legitimize the study of new england puritanism, argued that the churches of massachusetts would have been no different if plymouth had never existed. second birch of itch, similarly dismissed the pilgrims as an insignificant group with no grand design that contributed to shaping american history. and theater dwight roseman went further, arguing that plymouth

was pathetically unimportant. >> i would suggest the first scholars were misled by cotton and other content contemporaries who protested too much. recently, some historians have been willing to reopen the question of plymouth's influence on the bay colony. i examined the subject inconsiderable depth in my forthcoming book. that this afternoon i only want to highlight a few pieces of evidence. first, are the clear statements provided by john endicott and charles.at the time. when the first settlers sent by the massachusetts bay company, arrived in salem in 1628, they were wracked by disease. much as the pilgrims had been in their first winter. their governor, john endicott,

requested help from plymouth. and governor bradford sent samuel fuller, the colonies physician, but also a deacon of the plymouth congregation. this was the first of a number of trips taken by fuller over the next few years to the bay colony. fuller's ability to impact the disease was likely minimal. but, he spent many hours in consultation with the puritan leaders of salem, who had no -- at the time. and then later visits, he engaged in similar discussions with john winthrop and other lay leaders of the 1630 migration. the question before all who immigrated in the early years of massachusetts, help to form churches and undertake worship. the answer was to be found in the practices of those who had formed congregations themselves, such as that -- forming it through lay initiative. in letters to governor bradford, inserted into

bradford's letter book and then copied into a -- endicott praised fuller, for his knowledge of mr. robinson's church, expressed his view that he, john endicott, believed the plymouth's face full were servants of one master and of the same household. and god's people were all marked with one and the same mark. a seal with one and the same seal. and have for the main, one and the same -- guided by one and the same spirit of truth. and where this is, there can be no discord. , there must be sweet harmony. >> also significant from letters in bradford's letter book, from charlesdot, what of those who arrived with endicott. dot not only engaged in discussions and fuller, but traveled himself with-when he was entertain with bradford and

rooster, the late elder of the hilton congregation. by 1529, following plymouth's example of late initiative, endicott,dot and other layman formed the congregation. subscribed to a church-and then shows as pastor and teacher, two recently arrived english puritan clergy. eight delegation from plymouth travel to salem to extend to the new church, the right hand of fellowship. a similar process involving discussions with fuller and lay leaders in the bay, preceded the formation of congregations in boston, watertown, and dorchester in 1630. and, most interesting, one of the new arrivals in massachusetts, william codding, who had been a member of john cotton's boston liquor tire

shirt told fuller that prior to the sailing of the winthrop fleet, it was "mr. cottons charge that they should take advice from them at plymouth, and should do nothing to offend them." >> the essence of this story, including the text of the letters, is found in what bradford recorded in a plymouth plantation. with some additional detail in the letter book. but that is not all. in various poems and in his dialogues, bradford repeatedly emphasized, plymouth's identification with the broader congregational movement as found elsewhere in new england, and among the english congregational independence. in a lengthy insertion in a plantation, he rejoices in the downfall of the bishops, with their course cannons and ceremonies, that came about with the onset of puritan

revolution. clearly, a case can be made for the role of plymouth in shaping new england's congregational puritanism. >> the other major way in which my understanding of early new england has changed, by immersing myself in bradford and other sources, is an understanding of the pilgrim relations with the native population. as paul peters makes clear in her essay in the new edition, the natives of southern new england had ample reasons to be suspicious of the arrivals. earlier voyages of europeans had brought diseases, for which the indigenous people had no defense. as we witnessed, the-pandemic sweeping the world today, we can perhaps better understand of the horror of an unknown disease cutting down thousands of thick rooms. with the normal human instincts to cover the second care for the dying, becoming means of

spreading the contagion. in the region around cape cod where the pilgrims would settle, mortality rates of 50% were common. and some community suffered losses of over 90%. in the village of qatar said, the site of which became plymouth, there was so few survivors that those natives who remained dispersed to live in other communities. what had been a flourishing community visited earlier in the century by the french explorer, champlain, depicted here, was deserted. in 1620. in addition to the ravages of disease, the natives suffered from the aggressive intentions of some traders, who kept, who kidnapped individuals and brought them to europe. the most famous of these was tess quantum, better known as squanto, who received the

-brought to spain to be sold as a slave, escaped that fate and spent time in london until he was able to make his way back to new england and his devastated homeland. >> given this history, it is not surprising that parties from the mayflower explored the lands along cape cod bay, the natives would be-brief clashes what is known as first encounter beach. observe them, but made no attempts to make contact. in the course of these explorations, the english found deserted villages. they desecrated graves. and they seized for their own use, corn stored by the indians for their own spring planting. >> there are two accounts of these explorations. that related by bradford in- plantation, and that of edward wind throw in more's relation. the first time in these, we see what i believe was a significant difference in the outlook of the two men.

bradford described the events with little detail. and with little evident interest in native society. winslow showed much more curiosity about what the expedition came across. bradford mentioned abandoned villages and graves and taking the corn. winslow is much more descriptive recording the nature of the houses remaining. he reports from their first encounters with what they assume to be graves, they left them untouched, because we thought it would be odious under them to ransack their sepulchers. on the next lot they came upon, he acknowledges that did not stop them from examining a grave site, the details of which is recorded. >> winslow recorded a story from one of the expeditions that bradford did not. he wrote, as we wanted, we came to a tree where a young sapling was bowed down over april.

to make one strewn underneath. stephen hopkins said-some deer. as we were looking at it, william bradford, as he pointed out, gave a sudden jerk up and he was immediately caught by the way and hoisted into the air. winslow went on to admire the stair. pretty device. made with a rope of their own making and having a noose as artfully made as any rope and england can make. bradford did not mention the episode at all. and probably did nothing to improve his view of the natives. >> it is important to remind ourselves, that not all of the colonists held to the same beliefs and principles. while sharing many european attitudes, winslow always seemed interested in the native inhabitants. and developed a close relationship with the wampanoag, --.

bradford's views of the natives was far more critical. in the early chapters of his history, he wrote of them as savage barbarians, ready to fill the pilgrims side full of arrows. he described the landscape of the first encountered it as a hideous and desolate ruins full of wild beasts and wild men. but his harshest views were confined to his poetry. in one poem castigating the natives, as a people without god or law. and marveling that the colonists have lived is so long among these folks, so brutish and savage, without tasting of their injurious rage. >> winslow, on the other hand, showed an appreciation of how wampanoags preserved memories of important events, making a hole in the ground that would prompt questions and thus, the telling of a tale related to the event from memory. and while he acknowledged that at one point he believed that the indians that of founders

are people without religion or knowledge of any god, he later acknowledged that there in i aired, for they conceived of many divine powers. >> we shouldn't make too much of the different views of these plymouth leaders. there are two incidents where it seems to have made a difference in how they presented the plymouth story. with alusa make one, wampanoag --. mutual assistance treaty with the pilgrims. both bradford and winslow saw the significant event. but their accounts differed. winslow's account, the more complete, records the six points of the agreement as this. number 6. that when their men came to us, they should leave their bows and arrows behind them, as we should do with our pieces when we came to them. which makes the treaty seem less one-sided than bradford's account, which eliminates the

necessity for the pilgrims to leave their weapons behind when they enter the native villages. >> in addition to this difference, there is another significant one, which many of you are probably familiar with. and that is the discrepancy in the accounts of bradford and winslow of what we come to call the first thanksgiving. bradford simply talks about the gathering at the harvest. he does not mention anything about the native presence. it is winslow who gives the fuller account. our harvesting gotten in, our government our governor sent four men so that we might after a special manner, report rejoice together after we had gathered the fruit of our labors. many of the indians coming amongst us, and among the rest their great king mesozoic with

some men whom for three days, we entertained and feasted. and they went out and killed five deer, which they brought to the plantation. the implication of a special event, and the fact of the native presence, or in this account, was not in bradford's. the questions surrounding both of these cases prompted me to think more closely about the native role when the colony and the overall colonial response to that native presence. but these are not the only questions that bear consideration in the early history of plymouth. and the editors of the new addition hope that our volume will help other scholars to investigate other questions. >> that is all for now. and we can have time for some questions. thank you. >> thank you very much. frank. and, i can try to relay these

questions to you as they come in. i encourage folks to use the q&a option there in zoom. we have a question from robert. says i am wondering about radford's education. he quotes seneca at one point work and another place, bradford writes, being dust past the vast ocean and a sea of troubles, this is of course, similar to shakespeare, who has hamlet asked whether 'tis nobler to take arms against a sea of troubles. is there any possibility, robert asks, that radford new shakespeare? or was this just a common metaphor at the time? >> i think it is very likely that he knew of the works of shakespeare. bradford is an interesting person because he did not have

any education beyond the home, and presumably a local grammar school. he is not one of the puritans, for instance, who went to either oxford or cambridge university. but he was always very interested in what we would call self-education. and, he read extensively. we can tell the inventory at his desk. he had a very large collection of books. and then of course, as robert mentions, there are frequent mentions in his writings, that indicate a familiarity with a great number of works. i would suggest two things. that if robert is interested in this, he might do. david gruber, lu ch er, has written and a recent book in classical influences or

evidences in the records of plymouth. and he actually talks about the passage from seneca specifically as well as some other indications of the knowledge among the pilgrims of practical literature. >> he also, in another book, would be jeremy d bangs who was one of our co-editors, recently published an inventory of all of the private libraries of people who died in plymouth in the 17th century, and who left evidence of book ownership in their libraries. and, the large number of volumes is impressive. in fact, i don't want to go on too long here. but one of the things that always struck me is that we don't recognize enough, this sort of intellectual baggage, as jeremy is referred to win another piece. of the pilgrims. at even when we go to plymouth

mentation, which is a marvelous recreation, in which they give you a sense of the dress, the livestock, the building materials. but nowhere do you have any sense of the libraries. william brewster, at his desk, owned over 400 volumes. i have no idea where he put them. in a house of that size. but the fact is, there is no evidence other than a few books here and there. these are people who did have very extensive libraries. quite a few of them. certainly, brewster and bradford and myles standish, and some of the clergy and so forth. >> okay. thank you. we have a question from stephen, who asks, why is it that only bradford's history remains when the other person,

i guess he is referring to winslow, has more detailed accounts of their experiences? i suppose it would help to verify that and say how winslow's accounts are available. >> right to winslow and -- winslow's published his first accounts in 1622-1624. they are more detailed because they are dealing with a far more compressed period of time. some of his later works, like his attack on samuel gorka and such are addressing specific issues. so, winslow never set out to write an entire history of the experience of the pilgrims. he was writing about certain events. and as so, he could go into a great more detail. whereas bradford was trying to give us a much broader picture. >> i think that's right. going back to the issue, the shakespeare point.

-- has an interesting point related by jeremy. shakespeare was actually believed to have performed near the church that bradford attended and lighted. does that mean shakespeare himself? or his plays were for performed? that would be clarified. but dr. bangs shared that with me. she thinks they may have actually seen each other. that seems to imply that perhaps shakespeare was enlightened at one point. i didn't know that. so, >> i didn't know it either. and i am going to have to talk to dr. bangs and find out. >> it's a remarkable thing to think about. >> yes. yes. i think in general, and i found with the puritans, there is some familiarity with shakespeare's works. and, while there is an opposition by most, if not all puritans, to-the performance of various aspects, they didn't have any problem with the plays

as literature. they did have copies and they could read them. i never heard that shakespeare traveled abroad to light in. so, i cannot say anything more than that. >> we know for instance that, you know, harvard college had shakespeare's folios in its library. so, for all that they denounced plays and -- could go around performance of plays, and the attending of plays, as you say, are very much in favor of the reading of plays. i mean, you know, cicero and cato -- the classic playwrights, these, they were all in the libraries. >> thomas asks, what is your take on stephen hopkins and non-

separatists in shaping the relations with the indigenous people in trade, and in colonial government as a member of the council? >> first, you don't really have a counsel in plymouth as in the same sense that you do in massachusetts. you have a governor, and then you have assistant's that are named to help him. there is a new book that was just written on hopkins that i have sitting on my table upstairs that i have looked at the cover and seen hopkins, the man who escaped jamestown, saved plymouth, something like that. he is an interesting character. because he was on ac venture on this expedition to virginia. and, almost got executed there. it is assumed by many that he might have been one of the ones who told his fellow passengers

on the mayflower that, you know, being in a place with no clear authorization or legal dority can lead to problems. and therefore, you know, we should do something, thus contributing to the mayflower compact. but, yeah. i mean, he does play an important role in the history of the colony. >> inc. you. another question from kyle. can you both speak a bit about the condition of the original manuscript, and what it was like working with it, and how much you could actually work with the original? i am very interested in the process of creating this new edition. you want to start, and i will -- us >> i will let you take that entirely, can. physical contact with the exact actual manuscript. it is in the state library. >> library of massachusetts.

by the green. so, it is one of their prized possessions. they recently had it completely preserved. i think it was back in 2014. and the part of that process, they had to the manuscript scanned. a wonderful color, hi-res production. that is available online. supplemental version that is available at the library itself so, we were able to use those previously unavailable technologies to create a transcription of this. and then, we were also allowed limited, quite limited, understandably limited to, access to the original in order to look at passages that were

particularly difficult, like where some-had gone through and done a whole lot of very heavy obliterating, i sure wish i could get at those texts. i bet there is something to see underneath those. under those very heavy deletions. but it is very difficult. it is very difficult to do that. so, working with the manuscript was very much kind of a- experience supplemented by these on-site visits. but, i think for us, as people who are interested in presenting and using primary sources from this period, this was a real thrill, first of all. kids in candy shops, that kind of thing. even you know, older individuals. but, it was just a lot of fun and that since. but also, realizing you are

part of a long history of the presentation and interpretation of this document. so, there is the consciousness that you want to do the proper presentation of it, given, the history of it. some other controversial pieces of it and so forth. so, >> i just had two quick things. one is, we were both enormously happy that whoever taught governor bradford how to write paid proper attention to his penmanship.-papers, i have had to-decipher-handwriting. william bradford has a very legible handwriting. >> the other thing is, that in terms of us using the online scanned versions, one of the things that is nice about that,

is that you can blow up the image on your screen. which helps in terms of deciphering some of what is there. >> i see kristin on the screen. i will mention one more thing, kristen, if that is all right. a, alternate versions of plymouth plantation is going to be available online, published online. it is the verbatim transcription of the text. that provides notes, textural notes, to all of the inundation that were made over time. so, it is much more heavily annotated, for those who might see that. that is going to be available soon at the -- at the end sth site and at the -- site. be on the lookout for that. >> thank you so much. that was fascinating. particularly your -- library. i would like to say that we did

not get to have a chance to get all of the questions. so, dr. brammer, dr. minikema, is there an email address where people can reach you? >> yes. they can reach me at francis. bremerat millersville.edu. >> and i welcome questions at ken.tran22. funny dutch name at yale.edu. >> thank you very much. this is certainly been a fascinating conversation. i appreciate your time. and thank you to all of you who were here with us for the last

hour. on the half of any ghs in the boston public library, thank you for joining us, and please stay well. take care. >> thank you all. >> inc. you very much. we nights this month, we are featuring american history tv programs as a preview of what is available every weekend on c-span 3. wednesday night, we continue to mark the mayflower's 400th anniversary in a conversation with robert stone. director of the virtual mayflower project, who shows us how they used virtual reality to re-create the ship and the plymouth england harbor from which it set sail. watch wednesday, beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern, and enjoy american history tv every weekend on c- span 3. you are watching american history tv. every weekend on c-span 3. explore our nation's past. american history tv on c-span 3. created by america's table

television companies. today were brought to you by these television companies who provide american history tv to viewers as a public service. founded in the early 17th century, the massachusetts bay colony sent a predominantly puritan population who governed from the basis of their beliefs. richard pickering a plymouth foundation gives a history of this new england settlement and a tumultuous period when the quakers arrived. the nantucket historical association hosted the stock and provided the video. >> what we wanted to do today, it is going to be kind of a a lot of styles going on here because i need to turn you into puritans, if you are to understand where we are going to go with the quakers. i taught freshman english at the university of connecticut for six years. and one of my courses was