you think they could do it in the necessary time for you to react? >> congresswoman, again, i never would volley a question to the chairman but based on that question on how fast congress would react i'd ask -- >> okay, my three plus years here, i think we could not act that quickly. do you think china believes the united states would defend taiwan with u.s. forces if they were to use force against taiwan? >> i think i'd take that for a classified conversation. >> under the war powers act, does the president have the authority to intervene with u.s. forces if this happened today during an invasion with taiwan without seeking authorization of congress. >> i'll defer that one as a policy question to secretary ratner. >> okay, perhaps we can follow up on that because i wanted to get to the last part of this. so this has been a debate i think has been, you know, elevated recently, so if the

united states changed policy of strategic ambiguity toward taiwan to strategic clarity and guaranteed it would come to the defense of taiwan to the status quo, would this be a deterrent to china? >> i think as this conversation continues, if i were to look at the, or the alternative between strategic ambiguity and strategic clarity, there are some believe that it would be a deterrent and there are some that believe it would be an accelerant. i think it's worthwhile for deep, thoughtful conversation as we look at that option. i think there are pros and cons to both bought ought to look closely. >> okay, i know you didn't fully answer the earlier question and this is the part i wanted to get to, is if china thinks the united states will come to the defense of taiwan and you described the sort of two camps

and the strategic clarity and ambiguity, can you explain like why would it be viewed as a provocative act for us to just be clear, to say united states will come to the defense of taiwan to defend the status quo, can you explain the people in the camp that it would be provocative, their thought process. >> i would say based on the one china policy and the prc's articulation of the importance, in the academic world, any movement towards the independence of taiwan would be very strongly viewed by the prc. >> okay, i'll reiterate, i think this is an important debate, a debate we need to be vague now. >> your time has expired. mr. gallagher is recognized for five minutes. >> if the president came to you and said, you know, my top national security concern is

preventing a pla invasion of taiwan, but, and i think it's going to happen in the next five years, but i'm having trouble understanding how and whether the bureaucracy is executing my top priority so i need your help developing metrics to help me understand if we're making progress, things i can ask every morning when i get to pdb whether we are doing x, y, and z, what would those top, measurable metrics be? what would you recommend the president do in that scenario? >> i think, congressman, thanks, boy that's really complex and we try to do it all the time, right, the assessment of where you sit is very complex and there's a ton of variables. first, i would articulate, are we postured in the right places with the right, credible force to be able to respond quickly and then to dominate in all those domains so i would kind of

do that type of measurement. >> but of things we can measure, i mean it doesn't need to be complex, can be missiles, can be ships, can be taiwan's own investments, i mean what are the most important things the president needs to be tracking to gauge our progress on an invasion of taiwan? >> i think it's the, again, i don't want to make it, well first of all, it is really complex as i see it. right, i just can't say x missiles compared to y missiles and we're good. right, it's the capability of those missiles, it's the survivability, to get to where they need to go to launch, to understand the target sets you're after, so that's why i go back to it would be a comparison of how do i execute compared to the challenge in each domain, would give me a decent sense and we try to do that all the time. >> you mention, your first response was basing our access, can you talk then a little because i look at your aor, i see a lot of u.s. flag

possessions, north territory, simoa, if we were to invest in hardening these possessions and territories how would that contribute to your ability to deter an invasion of taiwan? >> it would absolutely allow us to both move further forward, right, west of the international date line, i have to be in place with the correct capabilities to be effective, second, to the agile logistics piece, the ability to sustain forward so long away from home and it is one of our asymmetric advantages we're seeing it play in the ukraine. there's no one else in the world that can do what we've done, you look what happened in the am i middle east, it's a critical advantage and we have to continue to mold it. that posture directly contributes to that. >> started to simplify a complex reality because we, the d.o.d. and president could measure the extent to which we're hardening existing or increase to where we

don't have them, in terms of the latter issue, what is at the top of your priority list in where you need access that we don't currently have? >> it's not necessarily where we don't have, it's where we might want to expand. again, i could start with the five treaty allies which are critically important so japan, we're in a very good place with japan and have to maintain those places. the philippines, critically strategic terrain and need to expand in the philippines, we are expanding in australia as secretary ratner talked about. thailand, also important, we have logistics support there from our ally. new places, india, working for logistics for india and additional cooperation that's been articulated, singapore, logistics site. so to continue to expand those is the focus. >> another thing i think we could measure quite easily, actually, is what the taiwans

are buying and investing in, talked a little about asymmetric defense. what, two questions, what do you want them to buy and would a security assistance program similar to what we have in ukraine, beyond foreign military sales help you accomplish your mission of defending taiwan from an invasion? >> yes, sir, first of all i left out korea before, because i don't want to step on my buddy's toes, but a true ally, so people of taiwan bought 100 harpoon systems. the focus there, we need to get them there quickly. the other capabilities that secretary ratner talked b we need to make sure we have programs and capability, whatever mechanisms can be delivered more quickly under the current environment would be helpful. >> time has expired, mr. cahaley recognized five minutes.

>> general, thank you for appearing here today. i would like to thank personally for calling me two days by sharing the decision by secretary austin to defuel and shut down the storage facility in hawaii. real simple, do i have your commitment to work with myself and the hawaii delegation to make sure it is safely defueled in the time allotted by secretary austin? >> yes, congressman. >> thank you for that commitment. now jumping to your testimony, specifically, developing regional partnerships. you just answered a question from my colleague about sustaining that posture forward and i understand you were just in paloa earlier this year, i understand the associations with there and other free states have stagnated. these nations are a critical mart of u.s. national security

policy and compacts address assistance very important to these nations. continuing that assistance is not only important as a national security matter in light of the region's competing geopolitical realities but also as a moral matter in light of shared history and the role these nations continue to play in national defense. so given palao's strategic importance to the country, how important is it these agreements are expeditiously completed before they expire and the position investing in their critical infrastructure such as the compact road which has fallen into disrepair? >> thanks, congressman, as you and i have talked about before, the agreement or the compact and free association team is really important. i do want to highlight that the lead for that event is the state department as supported by department of the interior. it's got a d.o.d. representative on it but it is critical these

are areas we have deep people to people ties and responsible for the defense of those nations so we need to work through these. renegotiation needs to know done in '23. d.o.d. is supporting that event but would be critical to get those agreements worked through as soon as possible. >> any thoughts on the investment in critical infrastructure? is it advisable to improve runways in palao, and the sea port for the u.s. military? >> absolutely, and as part of posture improvements and distribution, there are many of those on our list, in fact, the marine corp along with cbs, extended one of the runways in palao based on our own capabilities to start part of that work.

others we can do with other funds appropriated and we continue to work to improve those places. >> thank you for the answer. dr. ratner, the white house, is 2022 indo-pacific strategy document highlights the importance of building connections within and beyond the region through people to people exchanges. what are some of the soft power support systems and institutions that can help support this indo-pacific national security requirement. >> thank you, i would refer to state department and other agencies on specific programs but we're certainly working to build people to people linkages, exchanges and other areas. >> hawaii, east-west center is perfectly postured to expand, the people to people exchanges that are necessary to build capacity and expertise in the region and its challenges.

do you believe the d.o.d. can dedicate more resources to these types of professional exchanges and within the pacific island region this would be warranted? >> congressman, i'd be happy to get back to you on the resource in question but as a matter of the policy and strategy, certainly in our interest to maintain those types of relationships. >> thank you, i yield the balance of my time. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and everyone, thank you for your service and dedication. dr. ratner i'm very concerned. as a friend of india, india is the world' largest democracy, america is the world's oldest democracy. my father served there in world war ii so i developed a great fondness for the people of india, success of indian-americans, so it's become shocking that such a great country has abstained on the issues of the mass murderer in

ukraine. and i -- i'm concerned a lot of this is because of foreign military sales and the different technicalities and whatever. what's been done to address issues to make sure, as has been previously brought up by democrats and republicans of their fondness for india that we're not their main support of military which is in the interest of the people of india and the people of the indo-pacific? >> congressman, had a chance to talk a little this morning, my response would be i share your view of the importance of the u.s./indian relationship 100% and we understand and recognize they have a long, complicated history and security partnership with the russians but that they've been systematically diversifying away from that and we've been engaging with them on that question, looking for that approach as more u.s. systems, more european systems, and

develop their own indigenous capabilities as well and i think the trend lines are moving in the right direction. >> it just seems so unnatural. the relationship with prime minister should be with the united states, not in any way associated by way of obtension with a megalo maniac, putin, in putin's war. i just, again, saw our colleagues, democrats and republicans appalled that there would be obstention by the way country of india. i appreciate the countries by congressman gallagher concerning the defense of taiwan, my father served in the bay and had a great affection for the people of china and growing up with that i have such appreciation, my concern is for chinese lives and taiwanese lives.

we got to build up the defenses. i like the concept of a porcupine, that it's not just in the interest of the ccp to attack taiwan. and here's how the different levels of equipment and you did too, and appreciate that which is being purchased, should we also look at to a lend lease, just as we, america, provided lend lease to stop the nazi siege of leningrad which was successful for the people of russia which some of them have forgotten, but a lend lease as being proposed for ukraine to defend kyiv against russian or putin aggression, should we look for lend lease to expedite to providing the military equipment to taiwan? >> congressman, we are currently in the process of evaluating all tools and authorities possible to expedite the provisions

necessary for taiwan, precisely to reinforce the deterrence you're talking about. >> and general, i had the extraordinary opportunity with the delegation in 2003, with the democrat people of korea, was the last to be on that delegation and the comparison of seoul, the greatest comparison between free market capitalism and socialist totalitarianism, obviously it's the korean peninsula, gosh, the success of south korea, but i saw the petempken village, the horror of people subject to totalitarianism and of course, this is a dictatorship set up by the kim family and joseph stalin, i share the concern as others about the artillery capability, particularly against

seoul and how could this be addressed? >> thanks, congressman, part of it is addressed in close air support and if the fight kicks off in how we 0 would strierk against it, but he's not just got the long range artillery, he's developing other capabilities that give really a 360 threat to the peninsula now. >> and i share concern about the great territory of guam. >> time has expired. mr. gayega is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman and witnesses for joining us today, my question is for dr. ratner. you've touched on the conventional capabilities china is developing, increasing concern of threats in the gray

zon our arms, too prickly to swallow. do you believe that there are the authorities needed to collaborate with partners and allies in irregular war fair and how can we expand irregular warfare forces in the indo-pacific. >> perhaps i'll expand with admiral on some of the warfare in the region. >> we do special j-command extremely valuable, many countries working to improve training, capability, and to support their special operations forces. at this point, i don't think i need additional authorities. >> okay, so you don't believe you need additional authorities, including, just to be more specific, do we have the authority and capability it for

us to do joint training with vietnam, for example? >> we do. to do our j-sets exercises and training, absolutely. >> okay. admiral. can you describe the seas initiative, first step building enduring advantages, developing robust defensive posture in the indo-pacific region must be one of those priorities, i look forward to next month, intelligence over sight, what do you see as the biggest intelligence gaps in the region and what steps should we take for partners from northeast asia to the freely associated states. >> thanks, congressman, hope you come through hawaii in your travel and look forward to hosting and meeting you in person. as i talked about before, this persistent battle space awareness is enabled by all domain isr and while, from what

we've watched over the past 20 years, we never have enough. so any capabilities, whether they be current, terrestrial, undersea, on the sea, above sea, space or cyber space that delivers that persistent battle space awareness are desirable. >> thank you, and general, i want to ask you about persistence deterrence initiative, designed to strengthen presence in the region and meant to enhance exercise and security cooperation, how do you envision the united states forces, korea, on this initiative and the furthering goals of pdi? >> thank you, congressman. our contribution, or the pdi for the defensive korean peninsula for me is our ability to train with allies and partners. we've talked about cobalt gold,

batalapan our ability to get u.s. forces integrated as a combined element working with allies and partners in the region. >> excellent, thank you, mr. chairman i yield back my time. >> mr. walts is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'd like to submit for the record a letter from the committee, noting its concern about the lack of progress and the negotiations with micronesia, the renewal of the compacts of free association, in particularly that there has pac negotiation, particularly that there hasn't been a negotiator named yet and we have had a lot of discussion about how critical that is to you. but where is the negotiator? this is obviously a joint evident with commerce, the

interior, and the department. this is a letter to the white house, to the president i would like to submit for the record, mr. chairman. >> hearing no objection, so ordered. >> yes. thank you. general la cam ration we have had a lot of discussion about allies, and i think we are moving in the right direction. i am worried we are not moving in the right direction fast enough. the threat briefs in terms of what china is prepared to do and overlaid with our pathway to get there to deter it are off in terms of the time line. in the event of a conflict, general, what -- is the government of south korea -- i understand the votes are being counted and we have a general description, is the south korea prepared to allow forces to

operate from the south korean territory in the defense of taiwan in your opinion? >> i think it would have to -- it would depend on if there was of a threat to the korean peninsula. >> so mine us a threat to the korean peninsula a threat to taiwan, which would probably necessitate, from a chinese perspective, attacks on japan, are we going to be able to use those forces? 30,000 that are there, plus the associated air assets from south korean territory? >> well, congressman, my best military advice would be what's the threat to the korean peninsula and what can we afford? we still require combat power to secure the peninsula. i think it would be a discussion with the south korean government, with aquilino w the secretary of defense on what our obligations are on the peninsula and what's needed for the taiwan fight. >> sounds like a non-answer, general. >> it is -- the me, it's

hypothetical. i don't know the incoming government. >> are we incorporating into our planning use of those forces potentially, obviously with the act eessence of the south korean government? are we? >> uh-huh. >> i have not been towelled. >> can admiral aquilino count on your forces in the case of that fight when we are talking about forces forward? >> admiral aquilino can count on me to execute my mission of protecting the korean peninsula. >> congressman, i would recommend taking this into a classified setting. i think we could give you a more fulsome answer to that question. >> okay that would be great. and wish we could have talked about that yesterday. however, i do think we need to take a public posture, and with the new south korean government on what we are prepared to do and what they are prepared to do. and an associated question there is this, is china going to lean

on the the north korean government the ramp up tensions and to tie those forces down in a taiwan strait scenario? dr. ratner, we talked about harpoons. and currently, the harpoons are due to be delivered 2005, i believe. is that sufficient? i mean, by the time they are delivered and then they actually have the training and the operational capability, we are looking at '26, '27, to really -- to have a full capability. is that sufficient some what's the department going to do to accelerate that time line? >> congressman, i wish they were arriving there yesterday. i think as soon as we can get them there is better. i can assure you we are turn oefrg every rock to see how woke accelerate the provision of these capabilities. >> okay. >> we have dedicated personnel working across the department, across the security cooperation department and in discussions with partners about how we might be able to do that. >> how can this committee help

you do that? >> i will get back to you on that, congressman. >> okay, taiwan ease need harpoons. as you said yesterday. i curry. the ukraine yasians needed harpoons, that would have made a dig big difference in the defense of kherson and mariupol right now. >> gentleman's time is exfired. >> thank. >> ms. slotkin is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, gentlemen. i am sorry we have been coming in and out because of votes. i was in taiwan over thanksgiving. you guys have sponsored some really useful classified briefings and tabletop exercises that i have participated in. and it just keeps coming to me clearer and clearer that while we have military options and it is our job to prepare to counter china when and if we ever, god

forbid, have a conflict, that we are just not using the other levers of american power, namely economic power, our culture power, just a whole bunch of other thing. i don't want the pentagon to feel like they are the lead foot in the debate in the engagement with china. tell me, when are we going to have a strategy that you all can fit under? dr. ratner, help us understand how we are going to leverage the other things. because as you have seen we are watching things play out with russia in ukraine. no one wants to see taiwan be the next ukraine. but it is not all about all and the stick. what's the plan and the strategy? >> congresswoman, i fully agree with you that this needs to be a whole government approach. i think as beijing is looking at the crisis in ukraine, the conflict in ukraine, it is important they are seeing the independence could of economic measure has the united states is taking and the degree to which our diplomatic and economic and

military actions are being done in concert with such large group of countries from around the world. i fully agree that there are the full -- >> but we are going to see it? we are going to see the strategy? it is going the lay it out and it is going to be -- i mean, we had a whole strategy around the soviet union. containment was our whole of government strategy. the defense department was part of it. but it wasn't the only part i am looking for that equivalent strategy on china. the country is, loing for that equivalent strategy on china. i represent auto workers who have been laid off the better part of the last year because of a 14 cent microchip they can't get. when are we going to see the global stwreej that we are going to understand, simple, vis-a-vis our strategy with china? >> my hope is that the national security strategy will be out before too long. that's not something the defense department can control. and the national defense strategy as welt will provide both a public and a classified

version of how we are getting after this particular challenge. >> okay. >> there are other efforts underway along the lines of what you are describing that are currently classified and we can speak about in a different setting. >> i would just say the public needs to understand this issue, they are watching what's going on in russia, ukraine, and wondering when is the next shoe going to drop in china? want to know we are prepared. to that end, we know that cyber attacks, attacks on our infrastructure, those signs that are short of conventional war steps are thing we have to assume the chinese are thinking about if we get into conflict. and the average american has been on the receiving end of some kind of ransomware attack, cyber attack. and they don't understand what the government is doing to protect them. i know that's largely homeland security, but can you talk about cyber threats from china and what we are doing in an unclassified setting, i know, to show the american people that we are protecting them when they are on the front lines?

>> thanks, congresswoman. so that responsibility, as it applies to d.o.d. is in cyber comcommander general nag sony. he's a partner that we coordinate with all the time. for the d.o.d. critical infrastructure. >> right. >> he's taking steps can he's got teams every day watching the defendants of the global information grid and tone sure militarily. and as you articulated, the civilian aspect of that is being done via homeland security. >> i understand. i understand that's not your mission. but it is going to be part of warfare. it is already part of warfare. we are the armed service committee here, the defense department. i would love the see a briefing on this classified or unclass made to with the department of homeland security sitting next to you all. probably wouldn't hurt to get the state department in there. something that shows the people that while we know we are the best fighting force in the world and we are going to kick butt

abroad we are also coordinated when it comes back to commenting back home. a gratuitous comment but thank you, i yield back. >> mr. banks is recognized for five minutes. >> i apologize i had to step out to cast a procedural vote. so i missed a little bit of the testimony so far today. but i didn't want to ask immediately, dr. ratner, it seems that we have established today that the threat of a chinese invasion into taiwan is more than ever before. is that fair to say? >> i think there is a mounting threat of aggression from the prc. >> more than before, more than ever before? >> they have the capability that they have today. >> that's the message today, more than -- >> they have been aggressive in the past, so i wouldn't say more than ever before. >> more than in recent years? >> yes. >> would you say taiwan is safer in 2022 than in the summer of

2019? >> congressman, thanks. i think they are seeing exactly what we are seeing, which is this increased aggression. i don't know how to measure whether they are safer or not. i think there is a growing concern based on what they have watched the prc execute over the last number of years. >> but we are seeing increasing aggression. it is more than it was ever before n. august of 209 -- said quote when it comes to the issue of taiwan, 30 months into the trump administration it is more likely for the u.s. to be dragged into a war with china than 30 months ago. the trump policy toward china is fundamentally not productive. end quote. today, coincidentally we are 14 months into the biden administration of which mr. sullivan is acting as president biden's national security adviser. admiral, are we less likely today to be dragged into a war with china over taiwan as

compared to 2019? >> sir, once again, i see increased desire to build up and continue to grow their military capabilities. president xi jinping, in a public statement said he wanted his forces modernized by 2027. he didn't articulate what he would do with them or what he would do it. but from where i sit, my responsibility is to ensure we are ready should that occur. >> dr. ratner, what's changed? what's changed between the summer of 2019 and where we sit today? what is the fundamental difference in our foreign policy today that led to an increased aggression in china's posture toward taiwan in what's different. >> i don't attribute xi jinping's growing aggression and assertiveness to the united states. >> you don't? okay.

what's changed? what's changed? why now? why not then? even if doesn't have anything to do with the united states? >> i would be happy to share that assess inment a classified setting. his capabilities are growing and his patience seems to be decreasing. >> but you don't have an explanation for the american people about why? >> if i could jump in? >> please. >> again, this is what the prc has done, taken lives on the independent yap line of actual control. they have discounted their agreement as it applied to hong kong. they have locked up a million muslims in china. their actions, prc actions, not any other nations are the thing that give us concern. i think that's what you are getting to. >> jake sullivan said this was more likely to happen on donald trump's watch because of donald

trump's foreign policy. instead, dr. ratner, you conceded that the threat is more real today than it has been at any point in recent years. >> 2005 regardless of. >> let me carry on. north korea restarted missile tests in 2021 after a four-year pause in tezing. in 2022, north korea conducted a record number of missile tests. last sunday, the ninth missile test this year. narcotic, satellite images show north korea is building up missile testing. what do you think caused north korea to resume these measures since 2021 after a rather language hiatus? >> -- hill claims it is because of sanctions and that we haven't come to the table. i think it is more internal for him. i think it is fairly complicated when you think the moon administration's on a transition and i think as we have just talked about with china, you

know, i think he defers to china, but he's also looking to be autonomous. while this threat is to the south and to the u.s. -- >> i'm sorry. but the gentleman's time expired. mr. panetta is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate that. my question -- in records to -- the other night. the gentleman obviously thanks all three you for being here and appreciate your patience and your testimony and the information you are providing us. the other night i had a good conversation with the representative of taiwan. we were talking about ukraine, and we were talking about how inspired we are by the ukrainian people and how their population is all-in on this, obviously. obviously, then that pivoted to the people of taiwan. and talking about the national guard, and the condescription services that they have there. obviously, that's something that i think is going to play an

important part if there is any sort of invasion by the prc. that being said, is there anything we can do? is there anything that the taiwanese should do in order to increase the capacity or the will the national goreder guard or those who are under condescription service in order to be more involved in their service or in their will to respond to a prc attack. >> thanks, congressman. i believe -- well, i know for a fact that this is an initiative that's being developed and implemented to ensure that there is a robust whether you want to call it national guard, reserve force, or capabilities outside of the uniform service to be able to defend their nation. so it is very important. and they are working diligently to develop that system. >> are we involved in any way in helping them in that? >> as a part of the taiwan relations act, we contribute to

the support of their defense. that includes both weapons via fms capabilities that woe tack about as well as through services and training, yes. >> thank you. admiral, you talked about -- i think it was in the question-and-answers to the chairman. you said, number one, we need a more integrated and sustainable isr. go into that a little bit, please. and how can we create ever more robust exchange of our isr with our allies. thanks congressman. this persistent rz inning in real time of the battle space is responsibility and with the ability to share it with our allies and partners through what i ar particular lated through this mission partner environment. my number two funding priority as you should have seen in my unfunded list. when you combine those together

those apply strong capability against deterrence and then should deterrence fail, be the able to fight and win. >> dr. ratner, anything to say on that? >> nothing to add. i support exactly what has been articulated. >> moving on to the violent extremist threat in the philippines and in indonesia. after our withdrawal in afghanistan did we see uptick by ve groups in that area? subsequent, can you give an assessment of the ve groups at this point. >> thanks, congressman. as you articulated, specifically in the southern philippines, where we have helped our partner nation there to ensure they don't have a terrorist problem, those efforts continue. but i have not seen an uptick since the recent decision to

depart afghanistan. that said, we are concerned about foreign fighter flow. the sock back commander has been tasked to ensure we maintain vigilant. but i haven't seen a change as of now. >> thank you. in indonesia? anything, admiral? >> again, it's -- the area -- we are always concerned about any increase in violent extremist organizations. and we continue to work with the indonesians and support them as they also watch this issue. >> great. thank you. gentlemen, thank you. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> the chair now recognizes mr. johnson for his five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair, and thank you all for being here n. 2019, the u.s. transportation command conducted a no notice readiness exercise to test the organic surge fleet capacity to mobilize for war. out of 61 ips shhh, just 27 were

ready for sea after 120 hours. these vessels are over 40 years old and readiness rates are likely declining further as they age. previously the department indicated it plans to rely on contract shipping to supplement logistics needs. the question is, do you think that international shipping companies now will risk access to the chinese market to support the u.s. need in a conflict? >> congressman, this is admiral aquilino. if i could throw in here first. >> sure. >> thirst first, i thank you the congressman and the committee for the support to the tsp program. completely effective. i also endorse general vonos's and admiral newborn's ability to go ahead and prove to us whether or not the system can respond. i think we highlighted some challenges that we have to fix. in my conversations with the cno, he is working towards sea lift, the sustainability, the rdness. all of those that come together

help us to realize the distributed nature and the agile logistics that we need. so i don't know if i want to go hypothetically at your question. what i would say is we are doing the right thing to ensure that those capabilities are ready, available when we need them. >> that's good. dr. ratner, would you add anything to that? >> i would say congressman we received a number of questions in the hearing today and yesterday in the classified set being the question of logistics and contested logistics. it is an area of focus for the deputy and you will be seeing reflected in the national defense strategy and the fy 23 budgets. >> very good. let me move on to something else. i suppose any of the three of you could respond. each of us we all regular will he see the condemnation of vladimir putin now. but exposure to the indo-pacific nation is more limited here.

do you have insights for us on how putin's invasion of ukraine has affected indo-pacific perspectives on the american-led international order and the west's resolve to confront aggression in the pacific? i'm chiefly interested in india, thailand, vitd nam, developing partners. apologize if you have tread some of the ground already, many of us had multiple hearings scheduled today so we are bouncing in and out. >> i can't tell you at this point what the prc has learned from watching the european issue. what i would say is i think i am seeing the right lessons that we would like to learn. number one, you know, the investment of blood in order to prosecute this illegal event. second, the international

condemnation and unwillingness to accept it. and third, the drat stick economic impacts to the people. those are the right lessons should this switch over to the indo-pacific region and i think i would leave it there. >> congressman, general lacamera. i can tell you that ukraine asked the rock for military and non-combat items. $10 million in humanitarian assistance provided. and this economic impact has caught the russians are now an unfriendly nation, the rock is. there is $12.5 billion in energy resources from russia to the republic of korea. so it is having an impact on korea. >> let me ask one more question, and i will direct this to dr. ratner. i am not sure how much time i have left. but i am curious, and i guess we

all are interested in knowing what investments we need to make in our allies and partners to protect against vulnerabilities that china may exploit in the even of their offering support in a complicate. what can reduce our allies and partners relying on chinese resources and supplies and enhance ourselves. >> we are engaged in multiple conversations with partners on what they need to best deter and deny prc coercion and aggression. >> thank you. i will yeed back. >> the gentleman's time expired. ms. kuhl hand is recognized. >> one of my questions has to do with scioneaux-russian relationships and in my brief reading understanding there have

been multiple statements between the two states, multiple exercises and cooperation of various forms but that the large and sort the short of it is that we don't see a real formal alliance, so to speak at this point in time. what would it look like if we were seeing a more formal alliance gel? what signals or indications would we be seeing that would or could or should alarm us. admiral i was hoping you might be able to comment on that. >> thanks, congresswoman. it has previously been described as a marriage of convenience. there is issues on both sides as whether or not they trust each other. but we need to look very closely at what's happening right now and see if that's changed at all. that would be very concerning if those two authoritarian nations delivered or developed or went into something that looks like a treaty alliance. so we are watching it very closely. again, we are on day 14 of this thing in europe, and we are

watching it to try to understand what does that translate into. >> dr. ratner, you were shaking your head, what does that mean, translate into? what are woe looking for? formal treaties or something else? >> i think probably not a formal treaty in the short-term. but as the admiral said we are watching very closely. at a minimum i think we have seen beijing's tacit support for russian aggressionh ukraine. we have seen diplomatic support they are providing. at home they are censoring criticism of vladimir putin in support for ukraine. we see what they are doing domestic stickcally politically. in terms of the questions about what it would look like in an enhanced level, i think if we saw china taking steps to try to support or route around sanctions or giving economic support to russia as the russia of the international community was trying to apply pressure that would be extremely concerning. if they provided any military support capabilities or otherwise that would be

extremely concerning. >> general, anything to add there? >> yeah. i would -- what i call it is third party intervention and influence on the korean peninsula. i don't separate a, dprk, china, russia, from there would be an impact on any of the hostilities on the peninsula that we are paying attention to. >> the dod has been trying to rebalance reconnaissance assets to indo-pacom. would you elaborate? >> the theme that we have watched over the last 20 years, there is never enough isr. the globe is a big place. we have multiple areas that we keep tracks on. what i would say is as we shift towards a focus toward the indo-pacific, some of those resource versus come to the indo-pacific but we are still

not meeting the total requirement. we are not meeting the total requirement anywhere. what i will tell you is the secretary has not pulled any assets from the indo-pacific based on what is needed in the ukraine. so, again, the department's focus in the right theater, but, boy, it is a complex world. >> uh-huh. and general, in your area is there any gaps still in isr that you would like to talk about? >> most of it is in placement and access, given the comprehensive military agreement between the north and south and just our ability to collect over dprk. we cannot fly or rise directly over. so we rely on the other ends to develop the intelligence picture. >> my last question has to do with the strategic development of the philippines. i missed a lot of the meeting

yesterday. how are you viewing that in what can we doing to i guess firm up our relationship with the philippines in the face of uncertainty? >> congress congresswoman, the secretary went to the philippines and we were having issues with the visiting force agreement. he got that problem corrected. so the trend is in the right direction. we are doing more with them. we can continue to develop that posture through through your edca sites. we are building out bossa airbase so we can cross train with them. it is on the right trend, we are continuing to develop. >> i yield back. >> mr. -- is recognized for five minutes. >> this late in the hearing pretty much -- i would like to

kind of dig down deeper on the isr piece that representative hoolahan just indicated. do you, you as the department of defense, are you truly taking advantage of all of the capabilities that are out there, let's say in -- we use the term commercial off the shelf. cots. are there any opportunities for increased robustness in isr using things like, you know, again, already existing systems? i will give you one example. a sea guardy m 29b. that's just one example. because we have got a lot of challenges. and you cannot have too much visibility. any comments? >> yes, congressman. we are certainly experimenting with anything that can provide additional capability.

i will give you an example of a sail drone with an isr suite. through our experimentation program we are working to deliver those maybe capabilities that haven't been applied militarily in figuring out how they deliver a war fighting outcome. those that are promising will work to accelerate and get in. but on the isr side, it is all domains. whether it under sea, on the sea, above the sea, space and cyberspace. but we are trying to do that and take those opportunities to deliver an advantage. >> okay. well, i think the -- if you will, for the safety and security of not only the american people but all of our allies around the world, we cannot waste time and money through our research labs trying to get just a little bit extra edge when something that already exists will be good enough. so with that, mr. chairman, i will going to yield back the remainder of my time, thank you.

>> thank you. mr. langevin is recognized for five minutes. are you there, jim? >> yes, i am, mr. chair, sorry about that. >> you are recognized for if i have minutes. >> thank you gentlemen, i appreciate your testimony here today. if i could, start with admiral aquilino, can you talk about the role of information operations and indo-pacom. it seems there are a variety of information related to capabilities that are critical the our ability to compete in the region. how is indo-pacom doing in the information domain? how can congress help?

>> congressman, thanks. so, as a part of the seize the initiative objectives that we have talked about and through the lens of think, act and operate differently, it's certainly an area we have to get better at. through the processes we developed, all of our operations are now integrated with the information space to ensure that we have the correct messaging, what we want to say, when we want to said it or whether we don't want to say something. we agree with you with regard to the importance. and we are working to try to strengthen that. additionally, on the special operations side, there are certain components that have i would articulate increased capabilities and we are working to pull those in. >> thank you. general lacamera, so, it is clearly a crisis unfoldly across the world daily, it seems. i am conscious of the fact that our ongoing focus on the

invasion of ukraine may pull our attention from north korea. but general, can you please take -- or so and discuss with us the most pressing needs on the korean peninsula that we simply cannot ignore? >> thanks, congressman. the -- for me, the top priority is maintaining the alliance with the republic of korea. and then combat readiness is number two. we have got an exercise program focused mainly on command post exercises. but we need to make sure that we are train together tactical level all the way up through the operational level based on the changes in the ka rain, based on the changes in the enemy and based on the changes in friendly capabilities, we are in the process of developing ouron plan for the basis of the peninsula. >> thank you. and let me turn to dr. rad

ratner, in your posture statement, you mentioned that we are growing our cooperation in cyberspace with india and the quad. can you expand on this work more specifically, and how has this cooperation been successful? and have there been any road blocks to getting it done? >> congressman, the vast majority of that work is classified. i will just say, we are working with the indians both to ensure that we are able to communicate better in classified settings, in information related to space, cyber, and intelligence. and we are also working with them to help them better defend their own networks. >> admiral aquilino, can you highlight some of the initiatives to advance cyber with our partners and allies in the indo-pacific region? >> yes, congressman.

as a part of the aukus agreement, as we look at it, everybody wants to talk about submarines, but it is really about proving our advance capabilities. cyber and space are clearly two of those. we are working direct lee with australia. next week again i will be going there with general knack sony and general dickinson and the chief of defense, general campbell to frame and continue to move our capabilities forward. and we do that wherever we can safely and securely with our high end allies and partners. >> thanks. dr. ratner and admiral aquilino, china plans to complete their modernization goals by 2035, and they continue to develop their capabilities across space, cyber, and nuclear domains. in this unclassified setting can you generally explain how these modernization efforts compare

the our own? >> again, thanks, congressman. one update. so president xi jinping teleaccelerated that time line for his forces and asked for modernization by 2027. that is concerning. again, we still have the greatest military on the planet. we need to understand his acceleration, the capabilities he's developing and not only stay on par, but exceed and generate, overmatch in all those areas. >> thank you. i yield back. >> thank you. ms. mcclain is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you all for being here today. historically, india has made -- has had significant ties economically with russia. new delhi has been an expansive market for russian oil and gas sales. and last year, russia delivered the s-400 air defense system to

india n. december, 2021, the two plus two meeting between india and russia, india made it clear that the future of the relationship was dependent on russian investing in make in india projects. my questions for the admiral and doctor is, india clearly wanted to maintain its relationship with russia by its actions. however, now that russia has invaded ukraine, do you see the scenario will india will have to take a side in that conflict and distance itself from moscow and become more aligned with the quad nations? or do you see maybe india attempt to stay neutral? i am just curious on your thoughts on that? >> i would just say, congresswoman, a few of the other members of the committee have asked similar questions. we recognize that india lass a

long and complicated economic and security relationship with russia. the majority of their weapon purchases come from russia. but they have also been systematically diversifying away from russian systems for years now in a way that we view as a positive trajectory. i would also note that at that december summit that you cited there were very few announcements on new purchases. that was quite notable. and just last week, prime minister modi joined the leaders of the quad summit, including president biden, for a leaders call to talk about some of their shared priorities. i agree, it's complicated, but the trend lines are moving in the right direction. >> don't you wish it was easy sometimes? so you are confident in your opinion that you see it scaling back, the dependency, and the relationship? >> india, on its own accord s a sovereign decision has been diversifying its arms purchased

and development, including their own in digitization and making substantial purchases from the united states as well. so i think the trendlines are in the right direction. and the importance of this relationship, i think, could not be overstated. and we ought to keep our eyes on that important fact. >> great. sir? >> yes, ma'am, again, we are seeing the right actions with regard to foreign military sales, the capabilities they desire and the leaning. that's key. military to military, we operate together much more frequently. they have asked for capabilities, support, and help in areas that they haven't before based on what i believe is a common security challenge in the form of the prc. so this -- as this plays out, again, india gets to make its own decisions but i would articulate the same, from my lane in the milton mill please, it is going in the right direction. >> wonderful. thank you, sir. with that, i yield my time back.

>> thank you. ms. spice is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman, and thank you to witnesses. the good news is i believe i may be the lest rep to question. first of all, i want to say i appreciated mr. langevin's comments and focus on cyber. i think as a member of the -- subcommittee, that is something we are looking at. i want to make sure you are engaging with cyber comon the regular to foster a relationship there because i think it will become more and more important as we move forward. my question is somewhat specific to my oklahoma city metro area, specifically close to tinker air force base. this is really directed at the admiral a. significant share of weapons and asset systems in mornization is focused on deterring china which makes your inputs and capability especially important. i understand j rock is reviewing a number of programs kluge the

next arterial refueler, kcy. can you tell me about indo-pacom's engagement and possible input into the process? >> thanks, congresswoman. as it applies to the continued assessment of being able to execute our mission, air-to-air refuelling in identified in every event as critical. not only in indo-pacom which is all the combatant commanders, especially with all of the things that are in tinker under his realm. we identify the requirements. we have to continue to ensure we have the capacity to execute all of our war plans. so i did have input, and it is a critical focus area. >> excellent. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> thank you. at this point, we have no -- we have nobody else here in line to ask questions. so that's a fancy way of saying we are done. i do want to thank the gentlemen for their testimony. this is going to be a huge year,

qy 23, as we have seen, you know, the world has clearly changed and our national security is going to be even more complicated than it was before. so i look forward to working with all of you to make sure you have the tools you need to defend our interests. i thank you very much for your testimony. and with that, we are adjourned.

c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response the russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing you the late frs the president, other white house officials, the pentagon, and the state department as well as congress. we also have international perspectives from the united nations and statements from foreign leaders, all on the c-span networks, the c-span now free mobile app, and c-span.org/ukraine. our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos on demand and the latest from journalists on the grounds. go to c-span.org/ukraine. there are a lot of places to get political information.

but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, if it happens here, or here, or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable.