>> "washington journal" continues. host: a conversation on gun rights. >> a conversation now and gun, rights gun violence in this country. my guest today, member of black guns matter. remind us what your group's mission. is >> we go to the areas where there is high-levels of violent crime, that usually goes hand in hand with the restrictions on a who mueller eighth to keep and bear arms. as we, know most leftist cities in the country, they have all of these gun control

restrictions on the peoples right to defend themselves with they go neck and neck with violent tie crime, robbery and so forth. we go there and do free classes, free to all, completely voluntarily, funded by the general public. for people who want to learn as absolute beginners. >> somebody's an absolute beginner, what are they going to leave a class of yours learning? >> they need to know, obviously, the safety protocols in relation to owning a firearm, handling a firearm, conflict resolution, de-escalation and a little bit of civics. a lot of time, with civics being taken out of the public schools, we don't even know why these rights and responsibilities are that important. so, we have that hodgepodge mix in each class. you're not going to get out of our class without learning something about all of those things. >> black guns matter, the east and philly. what is the solution airy center? >> we have a solution airy center in philadelphia for everyone that was to donate, go to our website. we're not doing classes just on firearms and training but also taxes. also basic defense, personal

protection, welding. anything that it improves the quality of life for citizens. because we could teach you had to defend yourself, that's great, but what about building the equity in your actual life in these areas as well? >> remind viewers about your views in general on gun regulation in this country. >> all gun control is racist. i know we're in a space where, if you disagree with somebody, somebody calls a racist. right? but some things are actually racist. racist meaning legislation, in this form, that was designed to prevent a group of people from having the means to defend themselves. that is literally the origin of gun control in this country. they do a good job of re-branding it as public safety, but rules against murder are already there. murder is illegal. whether it's a knife, gone, so forth and so on. all control is racist, that is not just a cool t-shirt, it's an actual fact. we just need to get people aware of that, so they can highlight which politicians dana d.c. or even locally that are advocating for more of these racist policies. especially towards the black

community that they say they want to help so desperately. >> would it be a good thing to make a lot to require somebody to take a class like yours before they are allowed to own again? >> no. it would be horrible thing. i think that informing the people and people doing things voluntarily to inform themselves about being a safe and responsible owners great. but, when you have a state that, over the last two years, just printed out 27 trillion dollars and didn't get the money to where it was supposed to go, when you have a government that operation fasten fear, is giving out firearms all over the place. the state is not the arbitrator of what we do to defend our lives, at all. we absolutely stress education in that sense. but we can't just start, we have to be very balanced about how we approach that. >> at this, point there's something like 120 guns in this country for every 100 americans in this country. also, right now, mass shootings in recent years are happening more often than ever. are those two things related? >> no. i think that if we want to have a conversation about, 100, 20

if guns or the problem then there's more guns in america than humans. if guns were proud bloom, the extreme gun owners and left to attacking our human rights, they would be in much more trouble. that's not the. answer when we have that conversation we have a conversation about diet, we have to have a conversation about mental health, as we have to have a conversation about psychotropic drugs. but now you're going down the money pipeline. now you're going in that money rabbit hole. we are in d.c., bought and paid for, literally. by a big chunk of big pharma. so, we're not allowed to have that conversation. we talk about mass shooters and shootings, by definition, which make up less than 1%. now, all of them are wrong in horrific. but when you talking about that, when you look at the mass amounts of mass shooter that are actually on psych meds. now, we're starting to see more of a connection. so, there's more of a connection there than the simple inanimate object that americans have the right to have. >> so, the root causes the solution to mass shootings, the larger issue of gun violence.

what would you say? >> the things we're doing at this illusionary center. if we say things are linked, if gun ownership unlawful gun ownership is linked with more crime, than the areas that have more restrictions on ownership, that means those areas would be safer. it's actually quite the opposite. so, the actual solution is not only just arming people to exercise their second amendment rights, but you have a community that's been targeted by the state for a very long period of time. i don't deal with the equity of people in that community. when you talk about giving someone a sense of purpose and the things that they're doing with their life and having the means to defend that equity that they've just built up, that is more of a determined just saying, hey you americans can't of firearms. >> mush wray, from the bottom of the hour until 8:30 am eastern. if you want to join the conversation this morning, weeks but the phone lines up a little bit differently. gun owners, -- is the number. non go nurse to -- . ahead in colin this morning.

you always wear an interesting t-shirt when you come on this program. make criminals afraid. again >> absolutely, you should. let's be clear with the definition of crime. it is crime as have a victim. so, when you're talking about robbery, rape, on the side, those are actual crimes. when you're talking about i want to smoke a plant and the state governments that i can't, so now you should go to jail for ten years for that, that's not actual crime. crime as have a victim. when you're talking about going into neighborhoods, going into someone's home, violently are costing someone's property or their body, that's the type of crime we're talking about. we have the same leftist ran for two years now almost, saying that we don't want you to have the means to defend yourself but we're also going to pretend like we want to defund the police. even though they stole a bunch of the covid money is spent that right to the police. so, they're walking contradictions that emboldens criminals. in order to make a violent criminal afraid, there is no such thing as a random act of violence, it's only ran up to the victim. to make that criminal afraid,

when you have a strong, well organized, thoughtful, empathetic, loving community citizen that has the means to defend his or herself. that's going to make a criminal afraid. >> explain what is so called ghost is? >> it was gunned, that's when that casper had, right? ghost gun is this cute term that lefties of called it. just 3d-printed firearms, that's all it is. it's not going to float around and kill anybody. this is the scare tactic, we've got a serial aziz goes these ghost guns off the tree. as if every criminals using a fire americas gun. most people that are saying this have never 3d-printed a viral metal, they don't really know they're talking about. a ghost gun, that's just a sensationalized misnomer to explain the concept of americans printing their own 3d-printed firearms. this is president biden last week, it's showing some new regulations on the idea of limiting ghost guns in the

country. president biden from the white house. >> folks, a felon a terrorist and domestic abuse your can go from a gun kit to a gun in a little as 30 minutes. buyers are not required to best background checks because guns have no serial numbers. these guns, when they show up at a crime scene they cannot be traced. harder to find improve who use them. you cannot connect the gun to the shooter. in fact the atf reports they've been able to trace less than 1%, less than 1% of ghost guns reported by law enforcement. it makes sense that police across the country are increasingly finding ghost guns in crime scenes. by the way, ghost guns can be quote, rifles, essentially assault rifles as well. this is just one version of a kit you can buy. last year alone law enforcement

reported approximately 20,000 suspected ghost guns to be, to the bureau of tobacco, firearms, and explosive. that is a tenfold increase in these ghost guns from 2016! tenfold, in five years! these guns are weapons of choice for many criminals. we are going to do everything we can to deprive them of that choice. when we find them, put them in jail for a long, long, time. >> managed to ray, your thoughts? >> he's a clown, he's a clown and he's lying. one he said it's a weapon of choice and yet he's a little slick words that he does there he. says the atf have found suspected in a crime ghost guns. you're saying suspected of a crime, that one. to, if it's a weapon of choice, the should be definite numbers. the other thing is, he says like it's just patently false,

man. i can't even really articulate the level of wrong that that dude is in. he says that 3d printing can be done in less than a half hour. that is absolutely wrong, absolutely wrong! the people have no information. this is the same guy that said you should get a shotgun and put rounds in the air off the front step, that's literally what he told his wife to do. i am respectful to my elders but our president, joe biden, it's clearly dealing with them dementia. he is not articulate, he is not well versed on the subject, as well as this new potential atf nominee heat presenting is just as horrible as the last one, shipment. they just don't have a good framework on maj torre one 3d printing firearms are they are just trying to scare the general public by using false information. it is patently inaccurate and provably inaccurate. >> the nominee to bureau of fire how, alcohol, and expose it once they know about his? >> they should know anything

they should know more about the bureau of alcohol, firearms, an explosion it is a rogue organization. they attempt to tell americans that they don't have a second american right. that organization exists to be an infringement. don't get me wrong if someone is utilizing firearms, or anything for that matter, to harm american citizens or humans in general i absolutely want them to have their day in court. i want them to have the trial of their peers, having them afforded all the rights to defend themselves and i do want them to be in jail for a very long time. i do agree with president biden in that space. a lot of things they're doing is not going to have -- they are not gonna make the felons overnight. these regulations trying to get past along with his be atf cronies, it wouldn't make certain americans if you do not turn in your magazines which are overseen capacity, you will be looking at potentially ten years out of federal penitentiary. when we are time a crime, that's not crime. that is possession of a thing

to defend your potential property of your life. somehow americans, guys on the hill, those laws enforcement officers are not subject to the same rules. it's just more of the same. >> any calls for you in georgia. good morning? >> good morning, i'm so glad about your organization. i have been following you. i'm so happy. really, really happy to say that there is a growing number of us black women getting guns and learning how to use them. i am one of them, also i am so glad that our government has changed the law. but first i had to get a gun permit, now i have a permit to carry. they pass the legislation that you don't need to get that, i'm really glad to talk to black people, they have always been the ones who have been on the receiving and out scaring us. i do not recommend, i don't

follow that but, it is not guns that kill people it is people that kill people. if i put my gun on the table and no one is violent, i'm not gonna shoot anybody. people are upset about the tool but not worried about who is doing the thing. you could kill somebody with the bat, you could kill somebody with a knife, we ain't getting rid of none of those. >> right, right. 100 percent right. when you said, you know, they are used by x, y, z. they don't factor in other data. more people annually in america die from assault, bats and hands, than firearms. they also won't tell you that 60% of the deaths related to firearms in america, 60 to 70% are suicides. they are playing this number game with the general public. more specifically, but not limited to, convincing black people that they should not have the means to defend themselves. which is just absolutely foolish. >> i believe referring to constitutional carry. can you find with that? is >> constitutional carrier if

you are a citizen who was not, you have the right to buy a firearm with extra loops and steps, over the infringements. these steps are just infringements. we do hope that you get that far on, go to reputable classes to learn about that firearm. no different than when you get a new video game you're gonna learn. i am not equating forearm to do against but you have to learn about the tools that you get. chainsaw, same. huge shout out to the state of georgia for becoming a constitutional carry state. >> good morning, good morning chris. i guess when you know, you're just spoke about the three basics of his organization i was on board. when he made the comment that gun control is racist, i'm going to have to disagree. my problem with the previous caller calling with the state

taking away the requirement for getting a license and background checks. >> that's not what she said. >> i have a problem with that. when you look at the guns flooding in in the south of chicago and other areas, they were bought illegally. i think that that is a problem across the country, not just on the south side of chicago. , supreme justice scalia said that there should be limits. do you don't get people like the fools who shot up las vegas with hundreds of rounds of ammunition and multiple guns. there has to be a way to stop that. there can be limits as scalia said, who was certainly not a lefty. i will listen to any response online. thank, you bye. >> first there, 11 people say. that i love when they say we want to be safe. i had a percentage with that.

but when you give the example of the guns flowing in from chicago in from indiana. if the problem of flowing guns from indiana into chicago, why isn't indiana having the same problem? there is more restrictions on the general public having to defend themselves. it creates more of a culture of shooting fish in a barrel. i'm a bad guy, i don't fall the rules. you guys are good guys you fall rule and now you become a potential victim. this is the cultural poll that i think a lot of people who identify as anti gun they don't really get that part of it. that's that part. somebody having the rounds, all that other good stuff. the guy in vegas all that other good stuff. every time i hear that argument i can look at the church in texas a year or so ago. a guy walked in and moves about to carnage, several of the parishioners pulled are far, on one of the parishioners, the elderly man, put rounds on that

threat. stop that threat and say it however many lives. for every one of those people can give in that regard, i can give for where firearms are used for defense in gun usage. >> jay in mississippi down on. good morning to you. >> good morning. i just call him into say that i live in mississippi, mississippi has got a real somewhat loose gun laws. no women don't even need to have a carry permit. a man can tow a pistol as long as it's not concealed, legally, in the state of mississippi. mississippi is one of the lowest income states, but our crime rate is lower than the guy who just called in from illinois, much lower. why do you think that is?

because people have got weapons that can protect ourselves. >> 100 percent. defensive gun users in this country are in the millions. that's the other part they don't talk about. they will say 30,000 deaths. they will ignore the fact that 60 piece 70% of those are suicides. they will ignore that over 1 million, over defensive gun usages. someone uses a firearm, most of the non lethal, to stop an actual criminal. they played this stat game. another person that that he was with me until he -- up until it's racist. he's not gonna acknowledge the historical, probable fact where certain states got black people from having the means to defend themselves. the caller that just called in. mississippi is a poor state, generally. low literacy rates, all of those things. somehow this place that has less resources, right? morgan's, it has lower violent

crime than other places of other places. they are not looking at the cultural component, the safe gun use component. >> back to chicago. this is allen on that line for non gun owners. good morning. >> good morning. >> thank you for taking my call, big fan. washington journal about watching for years, i love the show. a show on tv. i was talking to this young man, i agree with what he say about the problem but i don't necessarily agree with that solution. what he said about the gross it's not about 3d printing, it is from kits that you can buy. >>