Skip to main content

tv   1862 America  CSPAN  May 26, 2022 1:16pm-2:49pm EDT

1:16 pm
welcome to the second part of
1:17 pm
the big 1862 round table. my name is manisha sinha, and i'm the draper welcome to the second part of the big 1862 roundtable. my name is manisha sinha and i'm the [inaudible] chair at in american history at the university of connecticut, and i will be cheering and moderating this roundtable. i should also inform you of course again that the panel is being televised by c-span, and one of our speakers, mycah conner, will be zooming in for her remarks and, you can see her right here on the screen. unfortunately, another panelist, keri leigh merritt, had a family emergency a while i go, and let us know that you would
1:18 pm
not be able to participate today. so, just in terms of this panel, i would like to just put forward a few framing remarks on the 1862 moment, and then let the speakers go for ten minutes each, deliver their remarks, maybe talk amongst each other, raise some questions for each other. i'd be happy to facilitate that. and then we will open it up for q&a with the audience. and another reminder, to come up to the mic if you have a question. so in most conventional histories of the civil war, the year 1863 is often taken as the turning point of the war. the year of significant union military victories at gettysburg and vicksburg, and most importantly, the year president abraham lincoln issued the historic emancipation proclamation. but from the vantage point of indian country in the west, 1862 emerges as a crucial
1:19 pm
marker during the war. a precursor to the brutal subjugation of planes indians, and the conquest of the west that would follow the civil war. i think this is the reason that the oah this year has convened this two part round table on 1862. as my colleague adds uconn, nancy shoemaker, likes to tell you, you cannot do in american history without native american history. now, 1862 is the year of the u.s. and to go to war, went over 300 warriors were condemned to death by the military. lincoln took the time to review the sentences carefully, and computed most of them, condemning 39 of the 303 dakota warriors to death. in the end, 38 were hanged, and that still constitutes the largest mass execution in u.s. history, as jimmy sweet just
1:20 pm
pointed out in the previous round table. 1862 is also the year of the [inaudible] background act, the pacific railway act, the internal revenue act, the homestead act. all these acts were predicated on the dispossession of native american nations, and it heralded the development of the american state. it is also the year that president lincoln issued his preliminary proclamation giving advance notice of his intention to issue the emancipation proclamation in 1863. now of course, the process of indian dispossession can be traced back to the settlement of the north america by european colonists, accelerated mightily by the indian removals and the mexican war in the 19th century. and while there has been much historical scholarship recently, some done by our panelists, on a viewing of the civil war and reconstruction from the west, we still need to elaborate on
1:21 pm
how we may develop new historical narratives of the war that would combine both older and relatively new approaches to the war and 1862 in particular. today, our speakers will address these issues from varying perspectives. the histories of black emancipation and freed peoples struggles in the west, the history of the state and political ideologies in western history, and at least lincoln himself places like him himself squarely within that history. now i would also like to point out that there was a typo in the original destruction of the 1862 roundtable because they were initially conceived more broadly to cover the entire civil war, rather than just the year 1862. i ask for your forbearance on behalf of the organizers of the staff that put the program together in the midst of a pandemic. mr. short we all know that the
1:22 pm
sand creek massacre of the arapaho and cheyenne peoples took place in 1864 and not in 1862. i would also like to thank [inaudible] barnes who conceived of these to round tables and the 1862 idea as was mentioned earlier, she could not be here, but she is the one who commandeered all of us in this panel and the earlier one to address this issue. so without further ado, let me introduce our panelists in the order in which they will speak. each panelist will speak, as i said earlier, for around ten minutes, and then we'll open up the discussion here first amongst themselves, and then to the audience. and i'll introduce all of them in one goes so that they can continue, we can continue with the order of the program. hilary n. green in associate professor in the department of gender and race studies at the university of alabama.
1:23 pm
she is the author of educational reconstruction, african american schools in the urban south, 1865 to 1890, which was published by the university press in 2016. she's also the author of articles, but chapters and other scholarly publications. she is currently at work on the second book manuscript, tentatively titled, unforgettable sacrifice. this book examines how every day african americans remembered and commemorated the civil war from 1863 to the president. mycah conner, who is joining us on the zoom right here, the screen, is a post doctoral scholar at [inaudible] penn state university. she received her ph.d. in harvard in 2021, her masters in history at harvard in 2014, and her bachelors in history at columbia university in the city of new york in 2011. the working title of her book
1:24 pm
manuscript is, quote, on this bare ground, the ordeal of freed peoples camps at the making of the bench a patient in the civil war west. her work has been supported by the charles warren center for american history at harvard university, and the mellon sawyer seminar on the politics of kinship at tufts university. and as i said earlier, she will be joining us virtually. heather cox richardson is professor of history at boston college and an expert on american political and economic history. she is the author of six books on american politics, including most recently how the south won the civil, oligarchy, democracy, and the continuing fight for the soul of america, which i have the pleasure to review in the nation. she is a leading two to historian, explaining the
1:25 pm
historical background of ma turn his stories through twitter thread, z coordinator of [inaudible] we are history, a web magazine of popular history, and the author of that is from an american, a chronicle of american politics. and she is too modest to add that she is the woman of the year named by u.s. today. michael queen is an associate professor of history in the university of nevada las vegas, department of history. he earned his b.a. and emmy at you and helvey and his ph.d. at columbia university. he is the author of several books of the civil war era, most recently, lincoln and native americans, for the southern illinois university press series, the concisely library. he has also written several books on nevada history, most notably in the textbook, nevada, a history of the silver. stage two
1:26 pm
for roman and a history of the great basin for the university of arizona press. she he served as executive director of the pacific coast branch of the american historical association. the floor is all yours, -- >> i want to thank people for coming out today. also to explore an act that most people talk about land grab universities. the moral act of 1862. thinking about the recent attention brought by land grab universities, digital humanities project, created through investigative reporting and research. isis very public and very interactive digital tool which if you haven't looked at it, it's great for not just scholarship and ask questions before teaching and getting students to really think about education and institutions and railways.
1:27 pm
the moral act of 1862, and its finding of natural labor institutions and other schools. published in march of 2020 in high country news under its education section, this project has garnered must praise, awards, but also scholarly contemplation. the native american and indigenous studies, a leading journal, devoted its spring 2021 issue to critical reflections on the product, including its methodology, research, and future questions that might be drawn and implications for critical university studies, institutional repair. it is that we are talking about this at this roundtable. the act itself passed on july 2nd, 1862, that facilitated the creation of the state public colleges and universities through the development of sale of federal lands. this legislation that we talked about for the disposition of
1:28 pm
indigenous lands, for the dump the benefit of predominately white americans. this dispossession occurred through, treaties agreements, seizure, we notice, we know that the federal government proved to be bad actors. negotiated treaties, are they really treaties? the violence both real and rhetorical it was at the core of these federal policies. it is the beauty of the land grab university project that shows the real consequences of land loss and u.s. imperialism when the moral act of 1862 federal the government to act each state 30,000 acres of public land, the issue of land scrip certificates for each of its senators in congress. the morrill act also affected southern black education. here is where scholars, including myself, doing this work to we, talk about the
1:29 pm
second morrill act of 1890, which requires the creation of significant land grab -- the mission was not restricted by race. the first act actually is used by kentucky state, alcorn, claflin, beginning a state university. alcorn is the first, a 71, it starts receive money. claflin and virginia state, called by other names, receive money in 1872. kentucky state received its first funds and 1897. the first act, not the second act. it's going to be reported that way. when we look at black education and the schools will we see biracial reconstructive constitutions, once public schools are created for black children, how states use this
1:30 pm
federal legislation that still on the books to find black education, to raise other money. that i think is -- more of its implications of land grant university. it shows the limits of reconstructive states ability to fund black education. and how they maximize all federal policies and funding initiatives to do so. at the expense of not providing any more money. it's like the state lottery today for education. re the first moral act applied to this early hbcus, we and so when we look at these states where the first morrill applied to the early hbcus we see that correlation between the diversity of those reconstruction act conventions, the creation of black schools, but also the dispossession of native americans that made it possible. and so i think one of the things that we have to not only use, look at that act, but more
1:31 pm
importantly, white supremacist governments that overthrew those reconstruction constitutions, they still use these acts. so you see the first morrill being used into the 20th century, for these hbcus. so we really see that government governments gave the bare minimum four back black higher education but also to -- and systematically under funded, but what does it mean they're also dispossessing native americans too? so it's black education, education, but also southern colonialism going hand-in-hand. so this is where i think the grass land grant university project leads to a future of scholarship. and i want to raise additional directions for understanding the scope of the morrill act and the land grab university on its impact on marginalized communities of color writ large in the united states. which communities, indigenous communities specifically funded these initial hbcus? those hbcus acknowledge this
1:32 pm
funding and the impact on indigenous communities to adopt curriculum or admission policies? whom might their institutional reproductive? the schools were created for emancipated and discriminated individuals of predominantly southern black population, do these schools, like claflin, alcorn and others have responsibility and the same institutional burden as, say, ohio state and other large land grab a pwrs? and i would argue they don't. but what is a institutional responsibility at [inaudible] looked like then? and if white southern legislatures truth federal money to pay for black education instead of using state appropriations, what are the states responsibilities for both tribal communities who they receive funding from and even the underfunded each piece the use that the use of money
1:33 pm
for in their own institution and states. and as i think we think about this anniversary i think the field can attend more to the finance of land grab university projects for understated and southern communication, emancipation, expansion of federal power, and the overlapping legacies of american institutions of higher order for all people of color in the united states to. thank you [applause] >> mycah, could you unmute yourself and go ahead? >> yeah. thank you so much. and i really think the organizers and panelists for the flexibility and this chance to participate in such an important conversation today. while trying to -- excuse -- me organize my thoughts for today, i read the description of part one and i thought i might begin with a liner from, but i've been thinking about.
1:34 pm
i wasn't able to see the first panel because i'm here so i don't know if the panelists in part one discussed this already but if so, please take my thoughts as an invitation, perhaps, to carry the subject into our discussion. the description refers to is a significant year as transforming a black life while devastating native america. and this way of putting it kind of reminded me of a line from a recent history of the war that the u.s. waged against the dakota people in 1862. and on lincoln and said, quote, ironically, he was also working on the emancipation proclamation issue, january 1st 1863, which granted freedom to slaves in areas under confederate control. at the same time that he was forced to deal with those
1:35 pm
dakota who had lost their own freedom and equality, and quote. but i should say that this gives the proclamation perhaps too much credit when the words themselves free no one, but enslaved people had to go out and fight for their freedom. and that gets lost here. we can maybe talk about, you know, congress responding to their actions before lincoln did with a series of legislation they passed in 1862. but for now, i want to just focus on how we might look at getting freedom versus losing freedom or transformation versus devastation, in a different way. and i wonder if this framework actually keeps us from understanding both the devastation and the violence of fighting and escaping the confederate project or slaveholding unionists, or at the same time eliding the history and survival work and future 80 of them to court to people during and after the
1:36 pm
wars. i work on the camps and other assemblies of self-eventuated people are free to people or refugees in the western and trans mississippi theaters of the civil war. and i write about how free people who weren't devastated not by freedom but by the violence of the confederate project, by slaveholders, by con man, by union soldiers and [inaudible] , by migrants. i wonder then if we can think of overlapping histories, then, of missionary surveillance, of forced marches, of a family separations, of the killings of children? aspects of the atrocities that [inaudible] had [inaudible] where union forces surrounded voiced to go to families
1:37 pm
[inaudible] in to do a camp surrounded by was [inaudible] it reminded me of why a study from the same time, atrocities on other banks of the mississippi river and revert that connect to the mississippi river. it reminded me of the people escaping bondage on the sand at the steamer [inaudible] and executed by guerrillas on the banks of the missouri river. it reminded me of the success of expulsions of freak people from places like camp nelson and and those deaths. i think of the hundreds of people who died building fort mcmurray in nashville, can you see, which remains i think we're still being found in 2018 if, i'm not mistaken. so i wonder where as we think in terms of devastation for one and transformation for another or loss and gain. i wonder, could the camp or the violent practice of encampment represent the possible intersection of these histories,
1:38 pm
specifically can review it encampment or camps as sites of violence as battlefields in their own right and sides of the injustice of the u.s. government? good to have help us to see both the intersections and the difference of this history of, these histories, and that they need to be at odds. because if you look through the o.r. army you volumes of the official [inaudible] of the rebellion. series one volumes or teen, you'll find calculations made against the dakota people on the same pages as calculations against people escaping slavery. [inaudible] italy of union forces following the attacks on the dakota people on the same page as samuel curtis instructing a brigadier general, the negroes of loyal men should be encouraged to stay at home and mind their business. so i think if we can change the framework from of one group
1:39 pm
receiving freedom and another group leaving it all one for being transformed and another devastated, we could form new questions about the ways for me and fine [inaudible] we could see perhaps removals as aspects of [inaudible] management of the free people in the midwest and the mississippi value. others that would be the effort to clear southern illinois of escaping freed people left the republicans be accused of african icing illinois. whether that's the series of relocations of freed people on two islands into the mississippi, like island number 10, or precedent island, which i'm trying to understand in my work. even looking east, perhaps bernard cox exploitation of lincoln's early approach to the freed people, the mccaul island disaster, where [inaudible] putin took people from fort
1:40 pm
monroe to an island on [inaudible] where they were robbed and [inaudible] there was a repertoire of [inaudible] that can cut through these histories. on lincoln and another thing that 1862 brings to mind for me, if i could save the union without freeing any slaves, i would do it, and if i could save the union by freeing all the slaves i would do it, and if i could save it by freeing summoned leaving others alone, i would do that. these are marks of [inaudible] two horse greely in august 1862 are commonplace in the history of the civil war and biographies of the president. they are direct and varying regrow cautions for people in bonded, though, are perhaps less commonplace. in order to do analyses of these repercussions of can automatically accompany another prominent remark from lincoln about slavery, his protection in july it is 62 that slavery
1:41 pm
in the border states would [inaudible] end by the friction [inaudible] of war. as we know, lincoln was urging patriots and statement of the border states that would it would be in their interest to loosen their grip on slavery by accepting applied for a gradual ending compensated emancipation. but when lincoln proposed dissed and he responded to greely a month later, he outlined a tremendous life-threatening political compromise from the perspective of the people trying to escape bondage. it was a quiet acceptance of the [inaudible] of enslaved people in states like kentucky, the largest and last stronghold of slavery in the union, and the state of lincoln's birth. his terms, friction and immigration, in-flight violence, pain and injury, but he did not say exactly who was to be rubbed raw, and ground down, or for whom how long, and who would be sacrificed. and i think of friction and abrasion as happening at places
1:42 pm
like nicholas and phil, kentucky, in 1864, to isabella miller and joseph miller losing their children in and their own lives after [inaudible] order that free families be driven out into the cold. but [inaudible] among us, there cannot be war, lincoln told a generation of black men trying to convince him to [inaudible] adding that many [inaudible] on either side do not care for you one way or the other. rather than thinking of lincoln, i guess, as a grant or freedom anti take or freedom, we could think of lincoln, the reasonable and diplomatic compared to his successor, as engaging in a politics of sacrifice, especially even, especially if he even for a moment thought that the members of the black delegation, for instance, had an obligation to sacrifice themselves to give up their homes and lives because
1:43 pm
their presence was the cause of the war. that for me is one of the darker meanings of lincoln's friction and operation idea, and of 1862. so i'll end my comments there. >> [applause] i too want to thank the organizers for inviting me to do this and to say it's a real pretty true to be here with these funds colors that i [inaudible] from social media, and it's especially nice to be here with manisha because she's last person i saw from the profession when the pandemic hit she. was literally the last person i remember looking at her and saying, do we [inaudible] do we wait? here we are, it's my first time, really, back since then. so it's a real pleasure to be here. i want to start today by saying
1:44 pm
that i wrote in my last book about how the dehumanization of the native americans during the war provided a new model for racial discrimination during the war to counter veil the changes in the way that the united states government looked at black americans. they had to now a new way to look at rail racial hierarchies in the west. well it's very important, it interestingly less now. because i did a lot of work on that. i want to go in a new direction today and to talk a little bit about the 1862, with the counter to the fact that while the congress is doing something that i'm going to talk about it's worth remembering that going into your of 1862, the american public lands, as they were called, although they were of course indian lands, were thought of as a vast piggyback that could be used to fund the u.s. government and that that was the way that they kept the government going because that was something that the large
1:45 pm
and service in the american south really liked, the fact that they would not have texas and that the government would not do very much. so with the idea that the public lands as they were known, incorrectly, at the time, had been used for about 8% of the income of the u.s. government, i want to lay out what does happened during 1862. and it's a story that i think is really important for the k-12 teachers that i hope will be watching this at home, because this is being broadcast for k-12 teachers. so i want to point out first of all that the last section of the 66 congress reassemble to on december 2nd in 1861. it was in the midst of a money crisis that was about to get really, really bad. the democrats who had been in charge of the government [inaudible] not want to use it for anything, they insisted that it had to be kept small, that it couldn't interfere in any way in the economy, and the way to break the american economy really
1:46 pm
boom was to turn over control of it to the very wealthy. well, what happens is that the money crisis means that the republican party which organized with the idea that the government should work for ordinary americans had to figure out in a hurry what exactly that meant. so what happens is on december 30th the banks in new york city spends [inaudible] payments. that means they're not going to hang out cold anymore and the country falls into just a spiral of financial crisis. so the new congress, which is going to come into the 37 congress, which is going to swear in on march 4th, it is 62, as itself, inherits a large problem. now, once the banks have suspended's pc payments, and congress of course start to panic and thinks what on earth can we possibly do? and what they start to do is they start to talk about the idea of greater new kind of money, and kind of money that doesn't spend on the money from
1:47 pm
capitalists but in states based on the american people. now, for a lot of people you are thinking, who cares? like she's talking about financial laws and i'm going to spare you samuel hooper from the massachusetts. but it's going to really matter, because for the next several months congress is going to decide what the government is who, should pay for it, and how you are going to enable people to pay for it. so between december 30th and the suspension awe of specie payments undid to july and august of 1862, we are going to have a profound transformation of the american government. who and it answers to, who pays for it, at what it does. so let me just go through what they do. and all of these things are being discussed at the same time. somewhat i did is i put them in the order in which they were signed into law. i love these first -- of all they're talking about the money and they're very concerned about the money, concerned about how you're going to be cropped, how you're going to get stuff into the ground. well, you can imagine with
1:48 pm
russia now. that money, you've got yourself a big problem. so they're talking about things, but one of the first things that actually gets signed into law is on december 16th, congress passed i'm -- sorry, lincoln size, congress has passed the composite emancipation to act of 1862 which is human is a month in washington, d.c., freeze about 3000 individuals. it reinforces the people who had legally enslaved them, and it offered those people money to emigrate. then, on march i'm -- sorry -- then on much in, the beginning of march, they are, they start to talk about new kinds of ways to raise money for the government and they introduce an incredibly important bill called hr 312 and hr 312 he's our first major tax bill in american history. that's going to put a 3% tax on manufacturers. it is going to create an internal revenue system to collect that tax, not through
1:49 pm
the states, but through the federal government, and is going to give us the graduated income taxed. not just an income tax which they intervene vented in 1861, by the graduated income tax, so that people would pay taxes according to their ability as the senators who came up with that said. the income tax is going to be 3% on incomes between $610, 000, at 5% on incomes over $10,000. lincoln is going to sign that on july 1st at. the same time they're talking about that, they begin to talk about tariff protect manufacturers in order to get them to pay those 3% manufacturing taxes that they put on a lot of products. the tariff bill is going to cut the free list in half and it's going to set the rates at about 37%. that's signed on july 14th. now, while these things are being discussed, there's the problem of the fact that they if you are going to raise that kind of money, you are going to get that kind of money out of the american people, in order to back this newfangled
1:50 pm
currency they are talking about, in order to do that, you are also going to have to enable people to make enough money to pay those income taxes and to pay that manufacturing taxes. so what they do first of all is on may 15th, they signed into law a department of agriculture, which sounds like who cares, right? the department of agriculture provides seats to regular guys whose dads ket had them seats. what they are saying is that you don't have to be the son of somebody important to be able to plant things. so we get the department of agriculture in which also give people information about how to farm. a newspaper at the time said, this is the first important movement by congress looking directly to the interests of the man who cultivates the soil. the balance of the government shifts then on may 15th of 1862. five days later, we get the homestead act, hr 125. as i mentioned before, so
1:51 pm
public lands made up 8% of governor take about that point and there are a lot of people's north through didn't want to give that length away, including some really crucial figures in the republican party. and that's another longer story. but horse greatly insists, through the new york tribune, insisted this would be a good move. he said, every smoke rising from a new opening in the wilderness marks the foundation of a new feature to commerce and the revenue. think insights that into law on may 20th, and greatly says, young men, poor men, widows, resolve to have a home of your own! and william pheasant, and a senator from maine who was famous for [inaudible] a buck on the tree, said, i cannot say that the wise of course was not to make the most of our time for, no one knows how soon this country may again fall into a democratic,
1:52 pm
recognizing that the democrats would never let him do something like this. july 1st, 1862, we get a land grant college act. again, funded at, as dr. greene said, by 3000 acres of land according to by state and according to the numbers and representatives, you had a [inaudible] thousand acres by each representative and sold and put in a fund to fund the colleges. that again was an attempt to get education into the hands of people who otherwise would not have the ability to get it because they are farthest didn't have the kind of money that the large enslavers did. july 16th we, get the second confiscation act. and the second confiscation act explicitly says that all of the enslaved people covered by the second confiscation act would be permanently freed, and it for bait the military from returning escaped and saved people, even if they came from states that still had legal slavery. that, of course, set to pay stage for the enamel to patient
1:53 pm
proclamation, which lincoln is going to issue. the preliminary emancipation proclamation on september 22nd of 1862. that is the groundwork for that is late on july 16th, and when the democrats in the north go bonkers over the idea of freedom for enslaved people, the cincinnati daily cassette, which is from, which is from a state that is at that point running a democratic, says, it free labor in the community adds to the aggregate wealth. this state needs every labor that has come into it, or is likely to come, because, as it said, every laboring man he's worth more than his weight in gold to the country. so, the 37 congress is going to be done with most of its business by july, and of course, we are going to get the preliminary emancipation proclamation in september. and then in december, in his and first annual message,
1:54 pm
lincoln is going to push further on the legal tender act, which set this whole thing up, when he asks for national banknotes. so what i'm going to argue here is that in 1862 is crucially important because it sets up the on the grounds pressure between the old idea of an oligarchy in charge of the country that does not have an active government and works only for itself, and on the other hand, the new, fledgling republican party, which has set all kinds of highfalutin things about how the government works for ordinary people. but now, because of the financial crisis and the war, it's got to do it. and in the space of about seven months, it creates our first active government that is designed to work for the american people. in 1862, an lovejoy, a republican representative at the time, said that he had lived through a revolution in government. and what he said is that they had decided was that what is beneficial to the people cannot
1:55 pm
beat actually deborah mental through the government for in this country the interests of both are identical. with us, the government is simply an agency through which the people act for their own benefit. so i want to take that, then, as a given and do a little sleight of hand here and suggest. then, that perhaps buried with in the republican project of equality is not only the problem of the racial inequalities that we've been talking about that were baked into it, but rather that within that very economic expansionist program that looks so good on paper, that within it itself is buried independence on both racial and economic hierarchies. thank you. organize the panel the organization of i'd like to thank those who organized the panel, the organization of american
1:56 pm
historians, especially my fellow panelists. and i'm reminded at this moment of an old country entertain who used to say, lord, i feel so unnecessary. [laughter] but i'll try to say something useful. we have heard today, and we know that 1862 marked a turning point on a number of issues. it was also a turning point in that it became clearer than ever before that the north and the south had gone to war over who would win the west, particularly the far west. it also became clear that abraham lincoln and his party intended to transform that area and that historians who love to make comparisons or synthesize deceptively different stories or study contradictions have a lot to work with. we have heard about the dakota uprising in minnesota, which then was the west, a reminder that regional spaces move through time. multiple tweets had reduced the
1:57 pm
dakotas land as part of a decades-long policy of the indian removal and mistreatment. the bureau of endive for indian affairs officials had failed in their treaty obligation to provide food to the cota, partly because of the civil war diverting resources, mainly because of these officials corruption. essentially, the dakota took matters into their own hands and fought battles against the union army there. when the army triumphed, you tell brief crimes, which despite the brevity, where an improvement of the usual approach of having no trials at all. and sentenced 303 dakota suit to die. lincoln ordered the commander, general john called, a radical republican favorite, who was eager to get executions going, to wait and to send the case files to washington, where he assigned to interior department attorneys to examine them. he said to limit the executions to those who committed rape or killed women and children. the army ended up hanging 37 tickets to the day after christmas, 1862, thus, as
1:58 pm
mentioned, the largest mass executions in american history. but lincoln also ordered the largest mass commutation of death sentences in american history in the same action. as for the public reaction, lincoln later mentioned to a congressman from minnesota that his 1864 majority in the state was smaller than it had been in 1860. imagine that, they're counting votes. the congressman replied and that if he had executed all of them, he would have gotten more votes. lincoln responded, i could not afford to hang men for votes. this is not the happiest part of the lincoln story by any means. it's a reminder of how unhappy the entire story was. the situation in minnesota exemplified much that was wrong with federal relations with native americans, but so did other events. lincoln's administration largely abandon indian territory, modern-day oklahoma, in 1861, leaving cherokee
1:59 pm
leader, john ross, no choice but to cast his lot with the confederacy. he met with lincoln in an effort to gain support in 1862, but lincoln and his advisers proved largely ounces that sympathetic. in the same year, lincoln agreed to enroll native american troops in the area, well before the historically more famous debate about african american troops. he also had to resolve disputes there between military commanders a, problem with which lincoln was intimately familiar in the morning eastern and western theaters and with which most scholars of the war, intimately familiar as well, but perhaps not so much with farther west. indeed farther west in 1862, the battle of gloria pass settled whether the competitor she would be able to keep moving west. the army of the pacific and other things to do too including stopping the native american rights on travelers, which resulted many from the lack of food provided by the iaea. to help the [inaudible] the army gave them food on the orders of james cawthorn, who also responded to complaints
2:00 pm
from where residents of western new mexico territory, president arizona, that the apache indicted the mining industry. he told his lieutenant, kit carson, all indian men have that trouble to be called whenever and wherever you can find them. constitute them. and from there it was george scab for kaufman to concentrate the dine eyeballs but don't or shortly thereafter. that became the known as the long walk of that navajo, again moving to human beings to where the government thought they could be best controlled, like the trail of tears, elected though cota, like discussions of the colonization of african american. the same kind of response to perceived images of indigenous response threats to prosperity at the desire for settler colonialism would pay our team by a river in colorado, [inaudible] thank creek, and for the most of the rest of the 19th century union party is republicans at federal relations with the indigenous population and the west generally. the union party as republicans
2:01 pm
had reconstitute themselves to attract pro union democrats had a partisans dream contrary. many of their opponents had left congress. they had room to maneuver and did they ever maneuver. these acts have been mentioned already. all of these acts,homestead, moral land grant, pacific railroad, creation of the agricultural the later became the department of agriculture, all shaved or east shaped the west. they also fed into a longer pattern to generations ago, david potter put it well in the title of his chapter in the impending crisis on the kansas nebraska act. a railroad promotion and its sequel. eight years in considerably shed later, construction on that road began. with each of these measures, the union government proposed a change of character resting land and settlement. to import into the west, broadly defined here is the land west of the mississippi river, homesteaders more capable farmers, institutions of higher education, and a railroad. doing so required moving
2:02 pm
concentrating, and are controlling the native american population. historians see that as an expansion of the federal government scope and power, just at the civil war and reconstruction proved to be a. and also continue those early policies of movement concentration, control. and also reflected lincoln's past, present, and possible future. he was westerner hula -- his entire life until he left springfield for washington d.c.. he was born, raised, and lived in the west he look to the west. on his last day obviously he didn't know it be hbcus's last day even if stephen spielberg did. he talked of the west with mary lincoln. he talked of the west with skyler cold facts, the speaker of the house who is about to go west. he was indeed thinking of the
2:03 pm
west not in the way he should have, but perhaps in the only way he could have at the time. we all al-ata elliott west for his article the greater reconstruction, to heather for west from appomattox, there's a growing list of wonderful scholarship on the west that i'll mention here, partly for the benefit of k-12 teachers. kevin waits, west of slavery, ghana matthews the golden state and civil, where meghan kate nelson, the three cornered war, which was a finalist for the pulitzer. stephen kantrowitz is, pending work on-chunk citizenship. a lot of people are studying the west in the civil war area, a lot can learn from comparison, what happened involving native americans in the west in 1862 takes into account attitudes of waste, government, western movement and so much more that we see through a different lens when we compare it with the federal response to southern
2:04 pm
insurrection and enslavement. and with guidance. the civil war and reconstruction reshaped the nation and the west. and the west helped reshape the nation as it helped shape the civil war and reconstruction. thank. you >> i want to thank all of our panelists remarks today. i wasn't privy to earlier. i'm trying to think of a way in which i could pose the first question, very different topics. the thing that struck me that is mainly a unifying thread, maybe a similar thread of all the presentations is that we are looking at histories of the civil war and reconstruction that are far more complex and
2:05 pm
nuance than what we have been made to digest for so long, right? we are going away from a very simple narratives of the war. and we construction. just as we have done for american history as a whole. the danger is to replace one simple narrative with another simple narrative that might actually alight certain emancipatory possibilities of the war, activism at the grassroots to reshape the nation, or even as heather mentioned, certain ideas about state formation and democracy that were born with the spirit. we can look at something the legal tender act, not just a blunt instrument of finance capitalism. but also one that made credit wildly available to ordinary people. there's a reason why the labour
2:06 pm
party was the greenback labour party, right? at this point. i think that is something that i'd really like our participants here to talk about. hillary, with her notion of how to think about the moral land ground act for what it does for hbcu and also think about the ways in which we can think about the enormous land robbery that it entailed for native americans. similarly, with mycah its comments, i was struck by how much it reminded me of amy taylor's embattled freedom. she really does try to balance emancipatory narratives of the slave refugee camps with the
2:07 pm
maher every day histories of disease, death, combatting all kinds of abuse. including confederate invasions that were just destroyed and kill people. of course, with michael greene's remarks on lincoln, did lincoln have a plan for the west? what was his view of the so-called indian question, that is something we need to unpack as well. even as we understand lincoln's role in emancipation as part of a very broad process that included enslaved people, included congress, radical to abolitionists and others, and the union army. could you just talk about that a little bit? we have the facts before us.
2:08 pm
can we think of a way of telling more complex and nuance histories without throwing the promo real baby with the bathwater? anyone? [laughs] mycah, go ahead. there are two greens, there is mike, others michael. >> it's an important question. i tend to think of the camps, at least in my work, as almost more destructive than generative. that's i guess why the theme of the problem of trying to control proclamations of people
2:09 pm
is something that i think we can use, if not connect history that are different, maybe even use it as a lens for how histories can be similar or different. i think that that would be one answer one way to answer that question. yeah. i tend to find -- i think if we can get, not get rid of, look past, through, blah beyond the jubilee, we can see a lot of more echoes between the destructiveness of the war for other groups of people. and the fundamental destructiveness of white people
2:10 pm
are subjected to during this period. i think maybe the, i'm not a, i'm not against empathizing the important disconnect use of this period i do think though there's something kind of about the jubilee nature the ordeal for free people that keeps scholars and other people from seeing the really punitive aspects of the camps. i don't think the violence happened within them as something that sort of accidental or tragic. and many cases, part of certain
2:11 pm
-- i refer to -- you know, their intentions. that pedagogical violence of the cruelties. getting people, or sending messages to people to get them not to come. by brutalizing them. i'm sort of getting away from the central question. i think maybe we shouldn't highway from those complexities. it can be challenging, you don't want to lose sight of certain triumphs and discontinue days. at least for my case, that something i try not to lose sight of. >> i probably follow up on that. one of the things i think about, the overlapping nation of how
2:12 pm
these policies affect people of color. it is not always needs are simple. one of the things i think about too, these institutions still exist. we like to talk about the civil war as bracketed, reconstructed, bracketed a certain things, there was the wear, okay, this is why think it's, at this is here. these institutions of higher ed are here. we are still dealing with the ripple effect of these larger issues, those questions, they are never resolved. for me, one of the things to think about with lincoln and has movement, the question about the public lands and the piggy bank. had a talks about it here. it is the piggyback of -- instead of finding themselves through taxes. they knew where that land came from. the question becomes to me, as someone who worked out of hbcu,
2:13 pm
i know there are some are trying to grapple with that legacy. there is a lot to grapple with, language university pointed out. also impacts on the stereotypes, it's only a large white school, it's only that. it was an erasure in many ways of native americans as victims. but also, there's no african american involvement here. i'm like, well, we have some hbcus here. to remind people not just to go back to the simple tropes of the simple narrative. i think sometimes, nuance here, we're still dealing with that nastiness. i think we can ask you questions of the pass, pushing the questions that people didn't have access to as materials. i think we can make arguments in more nuanced -- it doesn't mean that completely radically change. now we have more data. we have more tools. we have more visualization. we can then talk about other questions.
2:14 pm
the other thing i think about with this too, especially as institutions are going in and looking at their past with slavery, colonialism, and the like, institutions who are affected by this act they're still trying those conversations. those are real conversations on those campuses. i think it's for us to also provide the framing, also the material to help them work through these issues. as historians and teachers who teach at these places, we have a role to. this is where the no more nuanced, think about the overlapping impressions, overlapping things, getting away from the simple devastation, advance forgiveness, freedom, things like that. i think the more nuance we can do the better. >> hillary, when i was trying to do is broaden what you are saying and suggests that americans really love a government that worked for them. so long as people as color paid
2:15 pm
for it. >> yeah, very much. >> i'll echo all of that. i'll also say for teaching purposes, i teach in las vegas if you drive to southern california, there is a spot where they supposedly check for fruit. this goes back to the mediterranean fruit fly. all the things that were worried about. i will ask students, when you cross the border, do you suddenly stop being a nevada? nuance in the overlap. we can also drill down a little more i think int do you stop being in a fountain, and you check your ideas at the border? and of course we don't. [inaudible] we can also drill down a little more, i think, into what is going on in individual places. we think of ed ayres's work for, example, which is incredible. and i think of a book by a wedge of western is jordan who wanted to into the civil war and influenced we, dick etulain, who did a book on oregon
2:16 pm
country politics in the civil war. and it's, knee-jerk was they called it the tribe of abraham. because he said so many patronage appointees out there. and what do they do? but if we look at that state, oregon, as an example, they are in a big fight over land and taking it from native americans, which they do. they also managed to supply by way of south carolina, originally, john breckenridge's running mate in the 1860 election. but what is going on in that place? in my place, nevada, aunt trivia fans, las vegas was never part of nevada territory, i can win money in a trivia contest on that one, the territorial governor was a william seward operatic who called on the territorial legislature to allow african americans to testify in trials and serve in militias, and when the territorial legislature
2:17 pm
refused, he attacked them. he was critical of them. this speaks well for him. no question about that. but what is going on? what are the influencers back and forth? so the nuance and the overlap that my fellow green mentioned, is indeed a big part of this story. and i think we can find local ways to tell the story that also will help with the national and even transnational understanding of what's going on. >> that's great. thinking about how this westward track began which i'm thinking of stacey smith's book on california, which is just amazing, and the more recent book book by benjamin madley on the genocide of california native americans, as you can see, getting into the those local spaces into the west, oregon is a bizarre place, it's
2:18 pm
so bloody for slavery before the civil war, that is the one who doesn't secede during the confederacy. but on that note, if we could just open up the floor. i think all our our panelists here have given us really excellent answers and a lot to chew on. and it would be wonderful if you would come up to the mic, just to remind you that we are being filmed for a program on c-span, so it would be great if you asked your questions there. brilliant that they've silenced everyone so i would ask them. do you have questions of each other? maybe can i be a jerk here? yeah, am i allowed to talk about reconstruction? yes you are you are. oh look look niches like no. she's really not adalia you are. i mean, i wonder if when we talk about 1862 in the civil war a lot of the things that we're laying out are wartime issues. and i wonder if we when we talk
2:19 pm
about 62 in the civil war? a lot of the things that we are laying out a wartime issues? and the war ended, and there was a moment and maybe a fairly long moment when those issues could have been addressed and instead and it was the man here to my deft who i was going to say my -- right from my left -- who really hematoma to be the degree to which the same people in the west who were saying all sorts of the right things back east were saying, oh, the 14th amendment doesn't apply to mexicans, it doesn't apply to chinese, it doesn't apply to him indigenous americans. and so, i wonder to what degree the issues that we are identifying here in the war our i'm -- sorry -- reconstruction issues? >> yeah, i mean, you could say reconstruction begins in 1860, right? when they succeed, and their attempts to, at least that's the argument i would make.
2:20 pm
>> i would hardly, so i travel to anchorage, alaska, for the first time this summer. and one of the things i was reminded about was that the first, when we purchased alaska, who were the first troops out there to settle that land and protect it? it's african american soldiers. they're coming from georgia, they're coming from alabama, they're coming from mississippi, and one of the things in the very clever and grateful museum exhibit there about black lives that in alaska from 1867 to the present is that indigenous people preferred black soldiers as, i can say, they actually listened to them. they negotiate with them. and they also [inaudible] everything else out there. so if you're going west, you don't have to go that west. but also too, look at certain what he's doing, and i think, like what michael said about lincoln's vision for the, west how much some of his politics from 62 onward didn't get enacted until reconstruction. and that question of the west that he had, get in play.
2:21 pm
that's another thing i think is [inaudible] very interesting. and i didn't think about looking at the west because i'm usually more east, and more southern. but it's something to think about. and those reconstruction issues in there. >> well, i'm suddenly feeling vindicated because of my oral exams from my doctorate i was asked when reconstruction actually began a. and i said, well, really the war is an act of reconstruction. i got a really dirty look. [laughter] but that said, again, we can see the connections of south and west, we can see these people who are reacting to events. are they proactive or reactive? and i'll be local. one of the great stories about this the, classic example, the 15th amendment, and has it referred to the 14th, and
2:22 pm
doesn't apply to mexicans, chinese, other people of color in the west? the 15th amendment formula floor manager was a senator from nevada, william morris stewart, who may have been the most corrupt senator in american history and that [inaudible] . and when it passed, he wired the nevada legislature and said, we are behind this, we should pass this 15th amendment. and the response he got was, does this this mean the chinese can vote? no, don't worry, we're not going to let them vote. oh, okay, then we'll pass. it will, the next census showed about 2000 chinese people in nevada, and about 125 african americans. the issues may be similar, but the people involved can be different, according to the area. and just hearing the other day that the hispanic population of boston, where we are, is now about 30%, someone said, and it
2:23 pm
may be less than that, or a little more. but we are seeing this diversity today, and maybe we can think of the diversity today a little differently if we look at the diversity of yesterday. and the unfortunate responses to some of that diversity. >> you know, i think that's really an important point because there's a recent california refuses to ratify the 14th amendment, right? and if you look at the congressional [inaudible] if you look at the debates, it's really interesting, these republican senators from the western, how democratic they sound. and i would get confused. i had to actually look up, sometimes, their party affiliations, because i was like, does this person belong to the republican party? because they are so adamant against certain parts of the republican agenda, precisely for the reasons that you mentioned. but we have a question here. so go ahead. i think it's on. you could just -- >> okay, it looks like it's on. hi. thank you for a wonderful
2:24 pm
roundtable. this is kind of a follow-up question to what you all are just discussing about the west and the 14th amendment. i want to bring us back, maybe, to the question of frameworks for teaching, not just this moment in the civil war, but teaching u.s. history more broadly, and i've heard some great ones about devastation, encampment, land grab. i think one of the huge challenges in teaching a narrative of u.s. history is this question of frameworks that can bring in settler colonialism with the racism that african americans experienced. but i find that it's so easy and crucial to use citizenship, as one of the frameworks, but then that is in huge tension with settler colonialism. and so i wondered if maybe you
2:25 pm
could talk a little bit about that or how you think about that in teaching, because this discussion right here, to me, is like you kind of see that tension at work. >> can i take a shot at that? >> yeah. >> that's exactly how i teach this period of citizenship, who's in and who's out. and it's really important to remember that in the west, what they do is they rely on the old slave coats of the early 1800s to say that unless you are free and white, you can't be a citizenship. so that knocks out, in their minds, the chinese, of course. and they basically wiggle around indigenous americans and all sorts of people as well so while that issue of who is welcome and who's not, and of course that's going to take you into the 18 70s and [inaudible] decision, question of whether or not women are citizens and it [inaudible] is 75, the women's supreme court says that women, of course, our citizens, but
2:26 pm
citizenship doesn't necessarily read a right vote, so everyone is screwed if, i like to say that. it doesn't, you know, when you have to do is have [inaudible] paul texas and the eighth box law and all those things. but the reason i grabbed the microphone is because i think one of the things that is so important about the 14th that we miss, and the 14th amendment is like, i feel like i walk up to people in the course restarted say, let's talk about the 14th amendment. [laughter] because what the 14th amendment does, the 13th and the 14th and the 15th, of course, are the first ones in the constitution that increase rather than decrease the power of the federal government. at the 14th amendment is the one that says the federal government has a responsibility to make sure that everybody has the equal protection of the laws and the due process of laws. which we all kind of threw out. but yeah, equal protection. but what that means is that you can't have the kkk. you can't have states deciding how the people within the are going to live without us having basic rules of equality before
2:27 pm
the law, and equality of access to the judicial system. and the, in terms of teaching, that becomes the key to everything we do. because of course, it's ignored until the 1840s -- sorry, wrong century -- 1940s. but once the supreme court starts to say that we are going to apply the first ten amendments of the constitution to the states, the bill of rights to the states, by using the 14th amendment, that's something our entire system of the american, government erica, the civil rights protections, the right, getting the win right, at the right to be represented in court, this is regulation, labor laws, all of that comes from the federal government saying, no, you can't screw around with the citizens in the states. and people don't understand that nowadays. they're like, oh, well, let the stick to whatever they want! and this is why i stop people in the course restored to talk about the 14th amendment.
2:28 pm
>> all i did that i do with the course where the theme is freedom and the questions are freedom to and freedom from and that's a framework i think for looking at a lot of different things. i think it's also interesting john. marshall tried to incorporate the bill of rights as early as the 1830s and couldn't pull it off so these are debates that have gone on from the beginning, and yeah, bristol having them, obviously. and that's why people run from me in the grocery store. [laughter] >> yeah and, i would add, i don't view citizenship -- i don't view citizenship, because i'm basically on looking at module of communities. i look at notions of belonging. because people couldn't be belong to an area but not seen as citizens of the state. so but their notions of belonging and feeling attachment to a place and leads
2:29 pm
to activism to include have the state include them. so i usually try to do that but usually citizenship, belonging, and always, my students return of constitutional amendments and also supreme court decisions, more so [inaudible] classes in here too too because i think there's also flash point for understanding how these [inaudible] were fixed and, that idea, that constant negotiation back and forth, that allows for some communities who really are not citizens, but the law and other things, to still advocate in the sense because they believe themselves took the law and to be of the nation of the state, in their sense of belonging, affects their attitudes and beliefs and what they do, rather than just the top down, sort of, trying to get that are the sets [inaudible] dispossessed from the state. ut i thinkthat's a great point,. we had a previous discussion here between citizenship and
2:30 pm
sovereignty for near an americans i think that might be also a dichotomy. native americans negotiating citizenship and belonging since the founding of the nation in various ways, mycah, i wonder, and you want to jump in here? yes? >> yes. sorry -- i'm having some trouble hearing some other points, if i'm repeating anything i apologize. there are a number of ways i think you can shake up this citizenship versus binary. i think if he maybe teach with questions of materiality or labor and power and minds it might take some things up. if you center the, i mean, one thing i found to be really successful in teaching, trying to tell, illustrates, demands, problems, struggles through individual stories.
2:31 pm
i really rely on the -- there are letters from people who are imprisoned that have been published as well. i think if you are looking for and overarching framework or something, if you might not have one, just the teaching things side by side. encouraging your students to try and forge their own connections between first person accounts. i found that to be really fruitful in my own experience. i think that would be one tactic ideas, just to try to shake up some of the binary's that we tend to fall in. yeah. >> that's a great point.
2:32 pm
citizenship can be enacted in so many ways beyond the law and beyond politics, right? yeah. we have two questions. here i think we have enough questions to take. you please, go ahead. >> hi, i'm ray arsenault, university of south florida. this discussion has been fascinating. am i zouave an experience i had over 20 years grab program iran called florida studies. a program on regionalism. we have to figure out what on earth florida studies. where we got a grant to do us. we worked it out over 20 years. i would do the interactive courts on regionalism. initially, i set it up over southern history, i had limericks, legacy of conquest, initially i thought of it, well, i'm going to show how different the south and the west are. in a sense, it backfired. it became clear early on, the
2:33 pm
students figured it out maybe before i did, when we are really talking about, the burden of western history. over the years, we explore that notion. of course, florida being a frontier state for much of its history bridges the two traditions. i just think i learned a lot in trying to apply that notion of the burden. of course, patty limerick had gotten that from woodward. she mentioned it in the introduction briefly. the burden of western history. it is not original by my students, or by me. it was really informative and enlightening to do that. you get the sense that in some ways the burden of western history is almost more fundamental than the burden of southern history. and the sense that they might not have the same historical consciousness in the parts of whites in the west, and whites
2:34 pm
in the south. a lot of the same things are going on. i just kept thinking that when you are talking. >> i think heather has something to say about the unholy alliance between the south and the west. [laughs] >> i would like to say something different about that. one of the things that impresses me about i cannot make studies right now is that people are playing around with, they're playing around more of the economic and political importance. i care more about the social. one i was starting to look into it. both the south in the west are shaped by extracted economy. if you look at that, of course, that's why the studies of capitalism came, out if you look at, that and the studies right now that are coming out of the russian economy, and what happens when you start to bring pieces out of it like a gender system, bianna hills fabulous on this. i think there's a lot to be done on figuring out how economic systems create tornadoes around themselves that we pursues historically
2:35 pm
because of the social patterns, the economic patterns, the political patterns that are laid down by them. so, i don't think it's a -- i don't get an error that the west in the south look so much alike in the 1890s. and right through the 1960s, perhaps the present. >> that was calhoun's dream, right? then we will take the north. go ahead. >> hi, i'm laura burnett. i'm an independence girl or. i am not texting. i was really intrigued by the indication of camps that mycah said. something that heather said about the 14th amendment. those things come together in my mind throughout reminder of the lyrics to the battle hymn of the republic, where the second says i've seen him, i've watched him 100 circling camps talking about the righteous mission of the encampment of civil war soldiers i wondered
2:36 pm
if mycah and had their could speak to, from different sides, the encampment as a space of people who are excluded. by virtue, you know, you're either in the camp which we often use as a term a slang term to mean your borne of us. in this case, to be in an encampment as mycah was using to, be removed from the larger society. we had this long history of encampments from forced relocation to reservations. to the encampments of the newly self emancipated. two japanese internment camps. to perhaps you could even think of migrant labor camps as places where people are physically removed in a way, maybe just symbolically from the jurisdiction of the state as citizens.
2:37 pm
the 14th amendment guarantees citizenship to the same rights that you have as a u.s. citizen, you have an estate where you reside, the states must protect the rights of anyone under their jurisdiction, how does that encampment move people outside, maybe not the jurisdiction but the sense of belonging? i wonder if you could address that. >> thanks so much for that question. it reflects so much of what's the, challenges i've been sort of facing and writing about this trying to think about camps more expansively. what's this history can maybe tell us. tell us about the other examples you mentioned, other things. i still think of it narrowly in terms of my own work. that's kind of, you know being
2:38 pm
removed from this being removed, being removed from the state versus whale -- is the person still there? [inaudible] >> you can see? yes >> well, i only see, i guess i can sort of talk about the camps at least in my were, especially in this kind of mississippi, this westward region, especially, the islands, the mississippi river case, i've been trying to think about how they serve such a tremendous obstacle for freed them an impetus color for instance. in this period, migrating into
2:39 pm
men's this for instance, being targeted by figures who, dea them so to speak. who are writing about them and the possibility of their, the more realizing force. soldiers. when all the sex work, sexual assault that are sort of cashed in that polite way of putting. there are projects in it in that region of moving, i think, the words that he used, getting all them out of town. even though this figure of
2:40 pm
eaten is someone who is there to aid them, you sort of see how his vision, his expectations of, you, know the free people, these neatly self sacrificing pillars of the soil are colliding with freed women's own goals and objectives, for instance coming into this working on, working according to their own terms. so, the thing i see, the thing that's challenging about the camps the question of citizenship, the camps have previously kind of been written about as places where freed people worked for citizenship. i think that when we think about the camps, especially in the context of the role they played in the valley, and the
2:41 pm
free people strategies i'm not being sort of, tied down to the plantations, the system. i think that as, the free people strategy of, you know to go back to the who's out who's in question, we must not lose sight of the man's and different definitions and articulations of freedom. that people are trying to defend within these very of tile and violence, especially in the western, i don't know if that, i don't have answers, it's kind of strange, the camps
2:42 pm
are both functioning, depending upon where you look as ways to not, to move people out of the way so to speak, but also as a mechanism or technology for information about them, trying to, you know, understand if they would work or, if you look at the american freedom of anchorage -- the survey questions that were going out about free people, the weird fascination with a lot of people. there is a kind of knowledge production elements that some of these places have. -- because of how rapidly they changed and the different purposes that they served, depending on what region you're looking in. there's both a pulling away and
2:43 pm
a new attempt to pull in and look at that i'm still trying to clarify. i think a question that remains to be answered is really, if it really understood our particularly, what more the major legacies of i've let people injured in these crucibles, these really concentrated sites of violence in this direction, yeah. >> do you want to have the last word? here hillary, go ahead. >> one of the things i was thinking about, when you're talk about encampments and inclusion. those hbcus are sites of inclusion. they are not being educated within their regular population. they are put out somewhere. when you think about where they are located, at the edge of
2:44 pm
town's, at the edge. there is also another policy of exclusion. how do you talk these sites as item paramount, without the surveillance. at the same time, a sense that they don't also belong, in terms of education. that you need a second moral act to make sure -- so they are getting included. i think there's a lot of things in there about who belongs around questions about whiteness. and who is there, black people, people of color not included in that calculus. it's still another exclusionary practice. >> i will say quickly and then differ. there were at least three japanese american relocation centers in world war ii located on native american reservations. you think about exclusion, it is a double exclusion right there. >> go ahead. >>. there is a really part where
2:45 pm
there, that is free women. i would just like to suggest that since i know you're interested in the intellectual idea of the high the camps and what they were doing with, i've seen them, the watch fires of 100 circling camps. they build at him and alter, the evening news and dams. it's a call to mythology. there's a huge difference between those military and commitments of men, who are supposed to go out and be heroic, and protect the womenfolk. and the camps that are made up of communities that include women who mythologically should not be in camps. even though they're both camps, they're both exclusionary, they're both outside, there's all the things going on in the chaos, i think the gendered component of that actually really matters, at least mythologically, they are supposed to be home not being supervised by the state. instead, they are themselves in the camps. >> i'm afraid, you know, we could continue this conversation for a very long
2:46 pm
time. . we have an acronym. time i like the fact that we ended on this note. if you think of migrant detention centers today, refugees, migrant peoples, that's an ongoing issue for us to address. notions of citizenship, and who belongs there. i like the fact that we at least moved from talking about contraband camps as a slave refugee camps, but maybe in the future we are going to have more work done on this that will really connect the pass to the president. thank you so much for being with us today. thank you, around of applause to our love our wonderful, fabulous, who gave really wonderful thoughtful and interesting presentations today. thanks. [applause]
2:47 pm
2:48 pm
megan kate nelson is a writer and historian living in lincoln, massachusetts. she has written about civil war making kate nelson is a writer and historian living at lincoln massachusetts. she has written about civil war, u.s. western history, and american culture for the new york times, the washington post, smithsonian magazine, presentation wagons in, and civil war monitor. nelson her and her b.a. in history literature from the harvard university, and our ph.d. american studies from the university of iowa. she has taught at texas tech university, cal state, fullerton, harvard, brow


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on