presidency and more. sign up for the american history tv newsletter today and be sure to watch american history tv every saturday or anytime online at c-span.org /history. >> next, on the presidency. author bruce ragsdale talks

about his book, washington and the plow: the founding farmer and the question of slavery. >> in the summer of 1787 in the midst of the meeting of the constitutional convention, george washington recorded an outing in his diary. observing some farmers at work, and entering into conversation with them, i received the following information with respect to the mode of cultivating buckwheat, and the application of the grain. in his letters and diary entities throughout his life, washington frequently makes observations on crops and farming practices. for his own mount vernon estate he kept careful accounts, always seeking improvements and agricultural practices. one can read washington's own words on founders online hosted by the national archives to the

national historical publication commission. over time, washington's ideas on agriculture and agricultural labor changed, based on his own experiences in applications of modern farming techniques. in today's program we will hear from author, bruce ragsdale, whose new book, "washington at the plow", discusses these changes. explains how washington's passion for farming led him to question the reliance on slave labor. bruce ragsdale served for 20 years as director of the federal judiciary at the federal judicial center. the author of a planters republic with urge for independents in revolutionary virginia, he has been a fellow at the washington library, mount vernon, and the international center for jefferson studies. now let's hear from bruce ragsdale, thank you for joining us today. >> thank you, i am delighted to have this opportunity to speak to the audience at the national archives. i rely so heavily on founders online, it is a wonderful resource that has all of the published correspondence of washington and other founders. making it so accessible to make this

research. the book is an attempt to write a full history of washington's life as a farmer. a farming biography as it were. his life as a former really still stands as the most important untold story about the most familiar of the founders. i started this project with a conviction that no one can fully understand washington without some sense of why he preferred his life as a farmer so much. also what he had hoped to achieve for the new nation as a former. the way he saw as an additional kind of leadership, in establishing the new united states. a british visitor to mount vernon in 1785 reported that washington's greatest ambition following the american revolution was to be considered the first farmer of america. washington has been celebrated for many firsts, but the idea of first farmer of america is one that has been lost to our nations memory. i

wanted to find out why that would have been so important to washington, so soon after he had just lead the continental army to victory and secured american independence. why was it so important for him to then term to farming in his service to the nation? i also wanted to uncover a side of washington that it's seldom evident in his military and political life. he considered farming the activity that was best suited to his disposition. he certainly enjoyed it more than any other activity. he said it was more rewarding than any string of military victories could ever be. it reveals a private washington that is, often hard to discern elsewhere in his life. we find a man deeply connected to the natural world around him. you find intellectual curiosity, you find an engagement with the world with the self described

enlightened landowners on both sides of the atlantic. it became a very important part of the personal life that washington wanted to be and what he wanted to bring to his farming for washington was never just a private enterprise. culturally, he thought it would be one of the most important foundations and america's place in the world. the respectability amongst the community of nations. he always, in all of his agricultural innovations over 40 years, he always looking towards the larger direction of economic growth. the political economy that would be supported by different kinds of agriculture. first in the 1760's when he moves away from tobacco -- in 1775 he makes wheat his cash crop. he does this in no small part because he sees the opportunities outside of the restrictions of empire. it was

a crowd that could be traded -- of the acts like encumber the tobacco trade. he thought it was a way of making virginia more independent, more self directed. again, after the revolutionary war when he adopts a program of diversified farming that he thinks will be the foundation of the new nations commercial prosperity. that it will provide the common commercial interests that will tie the nation together. farming was another demonstration of the kind of leadership to be exercised, as well as political and military. i also want to then reconstruct a side of the historic aroaz washington that is often forgot about. especially represented in this famous sculpture, the

french sculptor created for the state capitol in richmond. that is the celebration of washington as the american -- his return from the army to farming recalled the example of the roman general who had left his farm to defend the republican battle. refused an offer of arbitrary power and returned to his life as a farmer. in the 18th century the image of washington at the plow held an idea of civic virtue. it became a similar representation made all the more powerful by his actual preference for farming and his deep engagement informing at mount vernon after 1783. the presentation that who don has here is showing washington not just as he takes off his military cloak and hangs up his sword but also with the plow at his feet with the plow at his

side awaiting his life as a farmer this representation it was especially notable because now, houdon decided to present washington in modern dress rather than the classical dress associated with the ancients. instead of ancients associated with cincinnati's, houdon present washington with a general plow. he had one made like this. it was manufactured by the enslaved carpenters in

mount vernon. this becomes another representation of washington service through his embrace of the plow how washington is also associated with the plow when he resigns as the president in 1797 washington's surrendering the symbols of power on the throne of liberty. with his left hand he gestures in waiting for him at mount vernon's the plow with the yoke of oxen. as these themes and images suggest washington, after 1783 is effectively farming on the public stage. he is closely being watched by both europeans and americans. celebrating is washington with a plow. a farmer doing the public good. the notion of the public that frames many of the expectations of washington as a farmer he places greater emphasis on the

specific benefits of the agricultural improvements he introduces. those expectations also frame his new reckoning with slavery throughout the years following the revolutionary war. it is here in his life as a farmer more than in any other dimension of his life that we can discern how washington ultimately confronted the paradox of slavery and freedom that runs throughout the founding period. in this form we can find the most detailed record of his changing attitudes towards slavery. the story of washington of farmer is the story of washington enslavor.

and slaved labor and farming were inseparable throughout his entire life. he once wrote that he did not like to even think about slavery, let alone write about it or talk about it. in fact he thought about slavery all the time. he thought about it and wrote about it in terms of his management of the enslaved agricultural labor at his own estate. it is there in that record that you can see both a change in attitude but also the record of his daily interactions with the enslaved labor that he supervised and controlled. finally, when washington does ultimately decide to quote, search for some way to emancipate the enslaved people he controls the only record we have of that process, the process, is through his record of farming and his reorganization of mount vernon. it is here, this example, this document washington may it 7 to 99, towards the end of his life, he gave a detailed description of

enslaved labor in mount vernon. this document has only come to light in the last ten years. it was acquired by mount vernon, it is in the library there. it is also on their website. what is really interesting about this document is that he gives such a detailed description of individual laborers and what he sees as their strength. he also makes clear that he defines these individuals largely through their labor, and logic through their value to him. it shows a kind of close personal connection, and a personal engagement that is not available in any place other than in these farming records. when i started the research for this book, i thought i had a pretty good sense of the trajectory of washington's life as a farmer. but i now think are two of the most important contributions of the book came largely as surprises as i

undertook the research. the first of the surprises is the depth of washington's commitment to british agriculture, two british models of agricultural improvement. in the middle decades of the 18th century transformation of farming had brought about remarkable increases in productivity. as soon as washington becomes a full-time farmer in 1759, after he leaves the virginia regiment, he is determined to adopt many of those practices from british agriculture, bringing it to virginia to develop a new kind of agricultural at mount vernon that would open up new types of opportunities and open up a new world for him. he learns about these new techniques almost entirely through books.

beginning in 1759, he starts to order new books through tobacco merchants in london. this is one of the most important. this is thomas hail's complete body of husbandry. he not only brings these books into his library and takes extensive notes, but we can very specifically trace experiments that he undertakes. experiments in cultivation that he undertake soon after he received this and other books. he developed one of the largest libraries, practical treatise is in virginia at the time. he learns about practical agriculture through this but he also learns about a whole culture of farming that was promoted by a new type of gentlemen, self professed gentlemen, farmer in great britain. the frontispiece on our right side illustrates,

these gentlemen farmers often connected their efforts with a great agricultural of antiquity. people like virtual -- they viewed their agriculture as a type of civic and patriotic service when they were undertaking experiments that could lead common farmers to improve their land. washington found in this cultural form or a new role for the virginia planter. that the virginia planter could take on this role of demonstrating new kinds of farming that would diversify farming and open up new kinds of commercial opportunities. what is even more surprising is this commitment to british husbandry increases overtime. it becomes stronger and stronger after the revolutionary war. after independence from the empire. washington is still deeply committed to these british models. in 1785, he announces

that he wants to undertake a complete course of husbandry and best farming counties in england. it is not just cultivation methods or new crops, this is a very elaborate and complicated system of cooperations integrated with livestock management and especially restoration of the soil. stewardship of the soil. it leads him to redesign the entire agricultural landscape over thousands of acres on mount vernon. it also leads him to demand that the enslaved cannot construct a formal infrastructure of farming, including what washington thought were the largest farms in the united states. they probably were, all constructed on the basis of very sophisticated british models. at the same time, washington begins a correspondence with some of our most important

agriculturalists in great britain. they really become his confidants and guides as he implements new types of farming throughout 1785. the second and closely related surprise was the enormous effort that washington expanded in trying to adapt enslaved labor to this complicated course of british husbandry. this is a merger of british notions of enlightened farming with and slave labor which really is unique to washington. no one else is trying to do it on the scale that he has. it is a challenge that he understands is also unique to him. during the revolutionary war, washington on a couple of occasions in private correspondence says he wants to be done with managing enslaved labor. he wants to be done relying on enslaved labor for agriculture. those comments, combined with a few remarks in the 1780 said he supported the

principle of gradual abolition, persuaded many historians that from the revelation on washington is trying to extricate himself from the institution of slavery. he sees the future of american agriculture going in a different direction. from the time that he adopts this new type of farming in 1785, he takes a number of very decisive actions to increase his reliance on enslaved labor. to adapt that labor to new kinds of farming. to find new value in enslaved labor that he has acquired for mount vernon. he relies on enslaved overseers at four of the five plantations at mount vernon that are involved in commercial agriculture. he tries to replace the hired white artisans who he had paid to do various types of skilled trades with enslaved labor at

mount vernon, especially carpenters who were making the agricultural implements, with brick layers who would help build these tremendous agricultural structures and work with the carpenters. to do complicated joinery. most of the enslaved labor in the fields. washington in the process and poses a new type of specialization of labor and it is a specialization of labor by gender. he puts more and more of the agricultural work and the fieldwork and the responsibility of enslaved

women and more and more of the enslaved men working as artisans and craftsmen it is a very carefully constructed program to take the labor that he had the enslaved labor and to apply it to new kinds of farming. washington understood what he was trying to do was unprecedented. certainly, he was not going to get any advice or suggestions from the british agricultural that he read. he devises a new type of supervision that was enslaved, it is original to him. it allows him to supervise much more closely than he ever had before. he devices these weekly worker reports. they eventually are kept in the format of booking format. even though there is no money. not knowing the monetary values recorded

but rather each plantation in indebted for the number of labour is they had and then credited for the work that those labor did over the course that they did. he received these every week. they would be prepared on a saturday and from 1785 until the end of its life -- and they allow him to exercise enormous control over the enslaved labor, even when he is not at mount vernon. as president, he devoted most sundays to reviewing these reports, and writing a very detailed instruction for a response to that. these reports

are just one example of the many kinds of records that washington kept about his state. he had a penchant for all kinds of record keeping. those records collectively make mount vernon probably the best state on the chesapeake in the 18th century. it also made possible writing a book like this. here is an example of the kinds of exactitude and detail that he offered as far manager. this is his architectural design for treading wheat. a 16 sided barn, a very complicated construction. at the bottom, he provides exact details for how the lumber is to be cut. he explains which lumber was to be gathered on the estate, which was to be bought from alexandria. but he put this together at one of the busiest times of his presidency. this document was sent to his manager a week before he was elected to a second term. and

as he came back from the fields one day in the 1780's, he creates this remarkable account of scenes, of how many seeds are in a pound. how many various acres. he is looking for an exactitude and a new kind of efficiency through this really quite remarkable attention to detail. he brought that same attention to detail in many of the records related to enslaved, particularly in the work reports that i've just shown. and also in the record of provisions of the enslaved clothing, food. those kinds of detailed records, aside from correspondence, are really what make possible information about the lives of the enslaved.

those records are always imperfect because they are kept almost entirely by washington and his white managers, rather than any input from the enslaved themselves. these kind of plantation records and accounts for much more reconstruction work on the enslaved. many historians once thought this was possible. and it gives a tantalizing view of what people would like to know far more about. we would love to have better records for is this man davy gray. davy gray was and enslaved overseer. later, he learned how to cradle which especially valued. washington was trying to train the enslaved to do it, rather than hire people to do it at enormous expense. in 1783, he

is made an overseer, the second enslaved overseer of the farm where he worked. he continues as overseer for 30 years, and he works on several different farms over that time. he probably knew the land and the patterns of farming better than anyone, maybe better than washington. gray was there as supervisor of labor and farming for years as washington was away in the revolution and then as president. but in all the records, and the many references to davy gray, this document is the only one that has any indication of his mark that he apparently was not able to write. but we do have this one receipt where he marks his receipt for having been paid for poultry that he raised for martha washington after the death of george washington.

that mark is the one indication of gray himself. gray was able to -- gray received some small cash payments from washington, and he apparently used those to buy poultry that he can then sell. he also, after the death of washington and the sale of the livestock, gray was able to purchase a cow, quite a remarkable purchase for an enslaved person. but he was not able to purchase his own freedom. he was one of the so-called dour slaves. those that were controlled by the estate. washington was able to use their labor during his marriage to martha. but after his death and martha's death, the slaves were divided among the grandchildren and davey gray remained enslaved. for all

this attention to detail, washington never loses sight of a grander aspirational vision of farming that he was trying to implement at mount vernon. this is the seal of the agricultural society of philadelphia. washington was inducted as an honorary member and had a great deal of correspondence and gained a lot of practical assistance. it presents this aspirational notion of what farming will contribute to that new nation. the goddess of agriculture is here presented with a crown of 13 stars. this improvement in society, like washington, they had a vision for agriculture. he was focused primarily on trying to bring the best to the united states. washington, in

the later years of his service in the revolutionary war, as we were just talking about, he makes references to the vine and fig tree. life under the vine and fig tree and the anticipation of his life after the revolutionary war. he sees those biblical references, including the many about turning swords into plow shares, is a representation of a new type of peaceful area that he thinks will be based on agricultural improvement, a shared culture of agricultural improvement with other nations, particularly great britain. he bonds with a lot of british agriculturalists and their mutual rejection of mercantilism which he thinks led to the war. they believe

they are in this joint effort, they engage in almost global exchange of an agricultural knowledge and planting material and agricultural implements. this image here of it was called general washington's, hardly seems like a new era of enlightened exchange. in fact, this is a documentation of washington's first improvement project after the revolutionary war. he decided that he wanted to breed mules. that mules were supposed to be superior to all other draft animals. their endurance, longevity, and also in the cost of their upkeep. he decides that he wants to

procure a spanish donkey, which was considered the best animal from which to breed mules. they were prohibited from export from spain. he sends out letters trying to find out a way how to get one. it sets in play a whole network through the highest levels of diplomatic circles in europe and it also attracts the attention of the king of spain, king charles the third, recognizes that this is a new way of supporting their ally in the revolutionary war. he orders that one of these prized animals would be sent to washington in the united states. the one that survived was named royal gift. when he comes in, he is almost a kind of celebrity in his own right. he is pictured here in this

massachusetts farmers almanac. also his journey from massachusetts where he is brought to mount vernon in the newspapers. he attracts the interests of other agricultural improver throughout the united states. reaching from john j in new york, to the political elite in charleston, south carolina. they all want to bring their mares for breeding with royal gift at mount vernon. the next 15 years, washington participated in this global network of scientific agricultural exchange that extends mostly through the paddocks of the british empire but also through diplomatic channels of the united states. he received seeds and plants from all over the world. he is planting wheat from the cape colony in southern africa. to the coast of africa, he even

receives wheat that was sent to him from agriculturalists in great britain that supposedly was seed supposedly given by catherine the great of russia to george the third. washington is connected to this whole world of both improvement and exploration of the natural world and exchange, a plant exchange that also includes agricultural implements. he gets plows from great britain, and most importantly it includes even more books to add to his library. he again returns to his practice of taking detailed notes from agricultural treatises that he can apply those lessons to the farming at mount vernon. in

return, washington welcomed many, many, visitors who pilgrimage to mount vernon. he offered them a view of an agricultural landscape unlike anything else in the united states. this is the five farms map that he draws in 1794. it shows the extent to which he had completely reworked the landscape at mount vernon to incorporate british farming. a visitor, one of the visitors who came to mount vernon recognize that it just look different than any other farms in the united states, particularly those in virginia. a visitor from europe couldn't believe that washington had not been to europe because he had so completely absorbed the ideas of agriculture landscape. they also recognized the

specific purpose of what washington is trying to do. those who came to mount vernon yuck [inaudible] hero back later and said, the farms that he was building were a monument to patriotism. they were showing the way for other american farmers. this is a detail of the map that shows that he also was creating vistas and views that connected different farms. and is agriculture on display to the visitors. here is the farm with the long alley that went to the grandest barn that he built all on union farms. and then in this image of mount vernon it was painted in the late 1780,

or early 90s, was one of the very few that showed the house that was provided for enslaved families. to the right of mount vernon is what was known as the house for families. when these visitors came to mount vernon, they saw the agricultural improvements, but they also saw the large number of enslaved laborers who were carrying out washington's innovations and were responsible for the changes in innovations that he had brought to mount vernon. and just as we recognize the power of the general term, farmer. so a new generation of anti slavery advocates were convinced that washington was there for their cause. and washington's emancipation of

slave laborers. they encouraged other people to join them. the first appeal that is documented is from lafayette who invited washington to join him in an experiment to educate enslaved labor's, to be self supporting an independent tenants on the land. or the quaker leaders who came to him in new york to ask him as president to support

petitions to congress for the freedom of slaves. the french abolitionists came to mount vernon and a very special appeal that he wanted washington to establish revenue abolitionist society in virginia. and for so like many others who appeal to washington they called it the language of liberty and they called washington the hero of american liberty. they are now extending that kind of liberty to slave labor. it would be the further emancipation of the slave labor that the united states. and it showed washington

that'll be the savior of america that would be hundreds of thousands of enslaved blacks in the united states. this appeals to washington, some that were critical in the press continue throughout his life. and apart from a very few private comments that washington makes for abolition, the changing's attitude towards slavery is only evident in his record of farming as an agricultural improver. in the years after the first heard in the appeal from abolitionist, he attempted institutions in new ways to shield enslaved from the worst of those inhumane parts and what he thinks is the most inhumane aspect of slavery.

not involved in the purchase or sale of slave laborers. he wants to protect the families of the enslaved. he insists that is managers provide adequate food and medical care. and he also tries to discourage the use of violent punishment, especially violent punishment used for the coercion of labor. in a way that mirrored similar efforts in the caribbean and among others with thomas jefferson, it made slavery more rational humane. they are still trying to improve slavery like agriculture, but by making these resolutions and having minimal protection washington returns to think that in return

the enslaved people owe him what he calls their duty. and to do all of the labor that they're physically capable of carrying out. so, it's difficult to write about this and the sounds that are imposed on the enslaved. the fact that they are not able to leave their own mark in the record. as i worked on this praga -- i came to the recognition that washington may have triggered the document his life as enslaver in his changing attitudes towards slavery. when lafayette first approached him about the experiment to prepare the enslaved for freedom, washington replies

that it gives some bag support an affirmation that he would like to help them. he also says that any discussion like this should wait, that becomes a pattern. washington reserves for conversations that are undocumented, any kind of tail talk that stepped away from slavery. any consideration of emancipation or freedom for the enslaved. and it's that record that makes instead of washington so understanding of his eventual path to emancipation. it is in this famous map that

already shown you it was created as washington's first step towards what he thought would be the program that would allow him to emancipate the enslaved. he'd find some other kind of dependency for them. he creates this map in 1793 as a part of an elaborate plan that he has to least his farms to produce skilled british farmers who have come and take over this, continues improvements would not rely on enslaved labor. the money they provided washington he hoped would allow him to freely enslaved. he suggested that one point and the people that advised him saying they could work is tenants. it's all part of this plan that he puts forth in 1793 and draws

this map as a way to show the british farmers for them to lease. and how washington got to this point it is somewhat harder to document. there's definitely a change that takes place during his presidency. he comes to recognition that the kind of agricultural system that he wants to implement, the kind of enlightened agriculture that he wants to implement is incompatible. as president, he gets much more perspective on american agriculture. it has to understand ways which reliance on slavery separated virginia from other parts of the country to the north that were engaged in the same kind of farming.

it's particularly the residency where he closely observes farming values there as president. it comes to the conclusion that pennsylvania improved agriculture much more, not because of greater vantage or the soil is better but rather he concludes it is because pennsylvania has provided for the richer abolition of slavery and virginia has not. he is convinced virginia and maryland to adopt abolition if they want to keep up and compete with the improved farming of pennsylvania. of course, washington understood in virginia's were not going to. he acknowledges that this, oh virginians are not going to endorse gradual abolition.

and at that point he decided he's going to have to -- it was the first planned releasing the farms. it was a very practical idea. he refused to lisa farmed any american farmers. he said he wouldn't handed over to the farmers in the united states and despite the support of a number of british correspondents and it never happens. in the summer of 1799, just five months before his unexpected death he drafted the world that it would provide for the freedom of more than 120 enslaved people at mount vernon. he ensured that the enslaved ones they would be cared, for the young would be trained to

take care of themselves and be self supporting. but beyond that he offered no statement of opposition to slavery. he never explains what it was he was hoping to accomplished, whether he expected people to follow his actions but they didn't, as he rightly anticipated. very few virginians would share this and it would not lead to a wave of emancipation. just in closing, several years after his full-time farmer and revolutionary war, washington ends of the life of a husband was the most electable life of all. he said to see plants rise from the earth and flourish that the

superior skill and bounty of the labor, those with the contented mine it was more conceived than expressed. it was more poetic expression associated with washington. it's when you find forming and that idea of a natural bounty of a rural landscape and the dignity of labour originally tracked him to the 1760. it had guided his further adoption of husbandry in the 1780's. and visitors to mount vernon coming into the most public room it was a new room that washington decorated in the walls of the ceiling. it was sort of the symbols of this kind of improve agriculture, and leighton degradated he had adopted from

great britain. he was also convinced his engagement in the world can get agriculture improvement -- he chose this for the top being that he designed and war as part of turning swords into -- and he was convinced that this agriculture would allow the new nation in both age and piece or comment -- it was based on your land that discouraged haphazard moving. that idea of rural life remains incontinent throughout

washington's life. it remained in conflict with the system of labor that depended on coercion and it denial of individual liberty. in this book i tried to recover not just what i think is an essential dimension, but also tried to show how his pursuit of a particular model ultimately and uniquely to him convinced him that slavery had no place in a commercially prosperous nation. thank you. very good question that many i've a few questions i've time to answer. a very good question that many

people have asked is, can you discuss the cultivation of various crops such as weeds opposed to other crops, how did it affect the number of enslaved workers washington needed? many people have written in the past that once he transitions to wheat, he no longer has the need for as many enslaved labor. that is not true. he finds productive employment for enslaved labor's. he actually continues to by enslaved labor's after he transitions to wheat. and in part, as he implements it it depends on a much greater diversity of crafts. he employs more of the enslaved in these crafts, he's building a whole infrastructure at the farm and there just more work to maintain and the kind of feels that are necessary. wheat requires far more land than tobacco. as a crop it requires less work

on a daily basis. it requires far more land. so, washington decrease the need for enslaved labor after the transition to wheat and care most of his life he is able to find productive work for enslaved labor's. it's only in the mid to late 17 90s that he is finally deciding that he has more labour than he can productively employ and another question, did the agricultural activity affect the presidency? i would say yes very much so. he sees himself as sort of an agricultural representative of the united states. he puts together a remarkable survey of american agriculture. it is not a part of his official duties. when he receives a request from a leading agricultural -- and washington calls in a

number of the leading farms with the government. most notably, thomas jefferson puts together an extensive report of american farming. he also tries very hard to get them to a door's institution that the government has established. it's a board of agriculture that one to surveys of agricultural that he had carried. out they would also recommend national legislation. so, he begins to see more active farm and the promotion of agriculture. however, he does not pass that warmth agriculture to his disappointment. and let me see what else is here. question, didn't slave labor's help manage during the war?

washington has to enslaved overseers who are running on plantations. it served revising the farmer in the labour at this point. he sent it -- and davey, gray them in light spoken about who is at the muddy hole plantation. and they play very important role in trying to find some way of increasing revenue jenny revolutionary war when markets are corrupted. he had them grow tobacco, he thinks he can maybe make some money for that and instructs both of those overseers who have been involved with tobacco before and it is not terribly successful as an experiment. it's more of the disruption for tobacco markets rather than the work of -- where black labor is

washington's only slaves? there is no one enslaved in mount vernon that was not black. but what is important to recognize that washington wasn't entirely dependent on slave labor. throughout his life, he has a number of craftsman. his purchasing at the time throughout his time as a farmer. it was interesting that after 1785, he requires most of those as part of their contract with him to also train and slave laborers in their craft. that's for the people who would train the fields and maintain the boundaries of the plantation. >> all right. >> that is of the questions that we have here.

and if there aren't any others i disagree thank you all for listening to this. i hope that you found it -- will be found something new about george washington so thank you. >> if you are enjoying american history tv than for news that are using the qr code on the screen to receive the weekly schedule upcoming programs like lectures in history, the presidency and more. 70 american history newsletter today and be sure to watch american history tv every saturday. c-span.org slash history. >> listening to programs on c-span proof c-span radio just got easier. tiger's part speaker to