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with these television companies support c-span 2 as a public service. a welcome to another episode of white house history live. my name is dr. colleen shogan. i am a senior vice president at the white house historical association and the director of the david rubenstein national center for white house history. the white house historical association is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization with a mission to educate americans about the rich and diverse history of the white house and the people who lived and worked there. our guest this evening is michael giorgione. mike is a retired rear admiral from the navy's civil engineer corps. he served in a variety of assignments around the world in his 29 year military career. including as commander of camp david. after military retirement in 2010, mike has worked in private industry and now is the chief executive

officer of a building information systems technology company headquartered in his hometown of pittsburgh. in october, 2017, he published his first book inside camp david. the private world of the presidential retreat. mike travels often speaking about the book. he has been covered by the wall street journal, the today show, smithsonian, npr, c-span and many other print radio and television out let's. after a conversation, mike will taking questions from our live audience. please put your questions in the chat and we will get to as many as possible. welcome to white house history live, my. >> thank you colleen, wonderful to

be here. great honor to serve our navy and nation. i appreciate the time to talk. >> but we start from the beginning. tell us how you were selected and with this thought process was. >> well, it is actually a navy command nearby. i was operated and maintained by president roosevelt. civil engineer officer -- so 1998. possible officers being considered with the white house and interviewed with the executive director. interviewed by the camp, by the staff. >> amazing. first a little bit about your own personal history. >> i visited it once

in the early nineties. i want to visit that day, talking about the next assignment. it's really a difficult place to work. they say put it away and go on fracture tours. i was shortlisted and selected towards the end. near the end of president clinton 2nd term >> how long were you there? >> just over two years. >> the last year and a half, again very fortunate on timing to work with 2 presidents that support the family and events -- let's talk a little bit about the history of camp david, the history begins really with franklin roosevelt. tell us, why did fdr select that site?

what did he like to do when visiting. we not called camp david at that point in time but we will let you talk about that. >> very good, very good. thank you. let's go back to 1942 rows about love to go out on the u.s. elf -- one of three presidential lots. the photo on the right is a exam. opening california today. he loved to go out on the potomac to get away from the white house. secure his hobbies or interests or just talk to world leaders and staff. it was 1941, 1942, concerned about u-boat sightings in the eastern coast united states so staff said sir, we can't go out on the yacht anymore. he said we'll find a place where i can go to get away from the white house. this was before the marine helicopters quadrant existed. i had to find someplace drivable, nearby. interesting lee because of the new deal bringing us out of the depression. part of the work progress later progress missed ration in part

of the civilian conservation corps which put money back into the country and rebuilt a lot of roads in parks, there was a place in claremont, maryland, called the tottenham recreational demonstration area, also known as camp number three. roosevelt was given three sites nearby to visit. he went to all three, when he came to can't number three, he looked at and said this is it. this is my first name, my shangri-la law. roosevelt named shangri-la law. a take on the novel, lost horizon. implying a utopian, mysterious place in the mountain. he had that whimsical nature about naming things. that was its name until, as we know, president eisenhower renamed it out to his grandson, camp david. that is how we know it today. >> can you describe camp david? a lot of our viewers and listeners who i'm sure have never visit to camp david in person, and probably will not

visit camp david, can you paint a picture of what the campus like? >> sure, i will try. imagine a hilltop -- it is a national park. maintained by the national park service. great partners of ours. 1800 feet elevation in the spring in summer months very leaf, lush canopy. perfectly manicured yards. narrow asphalt road that meanders to the camp. these cabins that you see here, these are the aspen's. all these cabins have this rough cut oh plant siding with the certain shade of green. all the roofs are cedar shakes wall -- very rustic, leafy, very fresh. at night i find it particularly surreal and ominous at night. deathly quiet. no lights except -- no noise except a squirrel in the tree unless there are

visitors. no lights, no noises from below. eerily quiet and peaceful. that adds to the mystique. this is the cabin that my family and i live in awe commanding officers do. we were the only family to live inside the camp. this is called cedar, just around the corner from aspen, the presidents launch. how many cabins are in camp david? how big is the site? >> there are about 12 full guest cabins. all named after trees. president biden how they're started that. roosevelt called the presidential cabin the bear stand. eisenhower when he renamed camp david he renamed all the cabin up to trees. he picked aspen, that is the treaty of the eisenhower's home state of colorado. about 20 total, and that includes the fire department, ash. the clinic, eucalyptus. the admin office, the support facilities, the barracks for

our single salesman and marine, et cetera. >> let's talk a little bit about the staff at camp david you were the commander. what is the size of the military staff at camp david. what types of jobs they perform >> over 200 sailors and marines. five officers. we have one chaplain corps. supply corps and two marine officers. it comes out of -- washington d. c. all told, you put all the soldiers and marines together, it's just over 200 staff. we have a white house communications agency detachment there. in charge of communications. it's coming out of the main command in the d. c.. >> can you tell us about how camp david has changed over the years? it was very rustic when fdr first came to camp david. there has been some notable additions to the complex. you mentioned there's

a chaplain. there is a chapel at camp david. talk about the buildings and the activities and how that complex has changed over time. >> go back to fdr it again. it's because he took the sailors off the uss potomac. they had not had a job. he took them with them to camp david. he brought the marines on for security. fdr only went there during the non-winter months. truman is not a fan of camp david. he preferred to go to key west. he put a perimeter around the place he had the trees pushback from the cabins. during eisenhower times it was winterized. he was -- he still maintain that. over the years the administration, president nixon during his time put a lot of expansion into the camp. expanding aspen and putting in

the hourglass shape pool. adding laurel, the main entertainment cabin. you see it on news reports and coverage of world leaders visiting. a number of other features throughout. it's been modernized at times. it is a challenge. that has been going on for the past four or five years. now a very sequential and smart way to keep it current and maintain the rustic nature on the outside and the amenities on the inside. it is not a marvel and brass 4 star resort. it's not meant to be. it is rustic and comfortable. to think and walk-in privacy. to recreate on your own or meet with other leaders as some of these voters depict. the most unique thing, the evergreen chapel. that was donated through private money. it was gifted to the president of the united states at camp david,

commissioned in 1991 during president george h. w. bush. >> how do the presidents get to camp david you talked about fdr with driving distance but they don't historically drive. >> not ideally. we prefer to bring them by the helicopter. eisenhower was the first. weather permitting, they will fly in on h annex one or marine one. otherwise, they will come up by motorcade from when they were last departed. >> camp david is a presidential retreat. we know the presidents often find themselves working at camp david. tell us a little bit about how it functions as a white house in the maryland mountains. >> most people recognize, no matter who the president, you're always going

to be on duty. there could be a lot of critiques about what you do when you're off-duty or how you do your job. the fact is, you are always on duty as the president. you need time off. we all need time off. and in addition to a second home that some presidents have, some not, camp david provides that peaceful getaway for family, friends and if needed for staff and for world leaders. it has been a great balance that presidents go there to get away. the reagens, most the time, as a couple to get away. to recreate, but also to think about things and bring guests with them. every president is a bit different. as an outsider, the best balance is use it as a respite for your family and friends and then you find it's a great place to bring world leaders to talk privately. there is no press unless you invite them in. there are no lights. no protesters or traffics. there's no planes

flying overhead. it is quiet and peaceful. that is what you want. >> how do people get around camp david? are their golf carts or bikes? >> it's golf carts. everyone is assigned a golf cart. there is golf cart one. we have to have our nomenclature. his golf cart one, golf carts and bicycles are available. we have cross country trails. snowmobiling, you saw the picture of president ford and his family snowmobiling. principally, golf carts get a while. >> as a reminder to everyone, we will take questions at the end of our conversation. if you do have questions for mike about camp david, it's history, when it's like please put them in the chat. we will get to as many as possible. >> let's talk about the history of camp david and the historic events that have taken place for camp david. can you talk about some of these episodes for them and

why presidents might choose camp david for the setting of these historic occurrences? >> i will mention four events and then i will focus on the fifth one. we see photos of fdr writing winston churchill to the mountains and going out fishing in a nearby stream and smoking cigars and probably having a bourbon or two. >> the moments in the bottom left, are talking about the -- that is rose about inside aspen. the fireplace is still in there. there is a wagon wheel. it's above the roosevelt table. that is still there. president truman only went ten times in his tenure. the presidents come there. that's the first time -- president carter made it famous for most people in 1978. camp

david peace accords with sadat of egypt. during my time in the 2000, president clinton brought yasir arafat and the prime minister of israel to the camps to replicate a similar thing. 2012, president obama hosted the g8 conference at camp david. the single time that most world leaders have been at camp david at anytime. the incident i want to go back to is 1961. president kennedy inaugurated in january. president eisenhower. bay of pigs, cia in u.s. government, others. passed off to the administration, you see a photo in the top right. he's pulled signed. and what is interesting about this, i think, from a human and political point is that president kennedy inherited the operation. it was launched and did not go well. hence the name, bay of pigs fiasco. he reaches across the political and personal aisle,

invites president eisenhower to come to camp david and help him understand how to get through it. how would you fix the mess? what would you do? it's a poignant and significant moment. you have the new upstart democrat inviting the old guard five star retired general former republican president there to talk about what to do. it is a very humble and desperate measure. a very humble way to recognize leadership and recognize what a president passes on between administrations. and talk about what to do best for the country. >> you mention this already, mike, some presidents, when you talk about this new book, some presidents and first families visit camp david more

frequently the others. can you talk about the differences and how presidents and first families use camp david and explain why you think that is. one, it depends on children. what are the ages of the president's children? that dictates, are you going to lead the league's on the inter murel leagues, back in d. c.. most their friends are there. that's a factor. two, some presidents have second homes and prefer to go there. some can do both. three, some like the quiet nature. president clinton rarely went to camp david the first term. over two terms, some prefer to go somewhere else i prefer to entertain elsewhere you see over 80 some years. >> can you share with us one or two of your most favorite memories at how camp david? >> certainly the moments that people recognize. meeting

yasir arrafhat, shaking his hand and watching from the sidelines as president clinton spends almost two weeks trying to forge a middle east peace treaty. watching president bush early in his presidency welcome the blares. it was just two couples getting to know each other. as one of the moves to the neighborhood. it's one of the poignant things to watch the sidelines. even when we get to serve there and see things, you have to remember, you are in the world a brief time. you get to know some personal things about the families but you are not of the world. you have to understand and maintain that core. i will tell us two stories that are personal. i think it helps to relate to families. the first one is the final clinton weekend. four

days nonstop at 100s of guest coming through. dinners and a couple of chaplain new jason is performing in the chapel. it is a wonderful event. we got an opportunity to say goodbye. as i'm walking into the helicopter at 10:00 that sunday night, there's snow on the ground. thanking them for leaving the country and walking down to where marine i, 20 year old chelsea clinton turns to me and hands me two stuffed animals. she says, commander i've had these in my bedroom for eight years in aspen. please give them to your daughter. thank your wife for everything you've done. it is touching and unexpected. it's a very human approach. great keepsakes for the two girls. that is the first one. here is the scene in the final time i see the clintons in 2001. the second one is a humorous story. it is the juxtaposition of the camp and the fact that you're

responsible for security yet your families inside of the gate. you have to run errands and do official things. it was during the middle east peace summit. they had taken the girls down to the fair amount city fair. a common thing to do. she's coming to the gate with the two girls in the backseat. they each had a goldfish and they are each holding it and we have a strict policy at that time. no animals at camp david. no cats. the marine corps guard, who knows us, we know all the marines and they know us, everyone is doing their job. he says, ma'am, you can't bring pets into the camp and she looks at him with a bit of an incredulous look. the girls are hearing this. the tear starts to come down their eye. she's looking at them, he's looking at her, she's looking back at him. he is doing her job and his job. mom is doing her job. michelle

leans into the window and says, they are for dinner and winks. he says, yes ma'am, please proceed. little funny moments like that you realize there are poignant moments at times. we all live with rules and regulations. sometimes you can see the human side. that is my favorite story. moms and dads and kids -- sometimes what it feels like. >> the final chapter in your book is called the true meaning of camp david. can you tell us, what is the true meaning, is it different for every president and for family who spends time there? >> it's definitely different. the bushes had--. he loved going to camp david. they spent every christmas there. for some, it is a time for family to come together for special holidays. during my time, the clintons loved camp david for thanksgiving. every thanksgiving the clintons went to camp david. they do it

pretty differently, nancy reagan loved going there. he did all this on saturdays from the cabin and elsewhere. they all use it differently. the meaning comes from the world leaders. it has a camp david spirit. it's coined by the soviet premier at the time. it was about a place where you can come together with trust and within nature and no press unless you want it there and just the ability to sit down as people and break bread and share a story and get to know each other. to me, that is the true meeting at camp david. a place for presidents to get away and relax. a place to entertain family and guests and

world leaders. probably one of the most unique places to do that. all within reasonable distance of the white house. >> mike, we had some great questions from our live audience. i know that president reagan and nancy reagan were riding horses at camp david. is there stable there? and one other activities are available? >> >> the only time we've had a stable there, a corral, at the kennedy years. you would know the pony macaroni was kept there. otherwise, horseback. i had one incident where president clinton and chelsea wanted to go horse riding. the national park service brought horses. we used a back gate into the wilderness. they went to the nearby woods. horseback riding is possible. there is no corral today. there is a ski shooting, trap shooting, a mini golf course, driving range. cross country skiing.

presidents want to go golfing, they go to the nearby golf course. if they want to, fish they are have nearby fishing holes. we arrange with that. there is a bowling alley, there's a movie theater, there's a game room, there's a library. it is a bar and lounge, there's a recreation shop. >> dave it asks, have hikers ever from the mountains ever accidentally approached the perimeter of camp david. >> it happens, there are warning signs. it's put around the camp. you could drive by the roads. most people know not to go down. we have protocols if you do happen to encroach the fence. there are things we deal with. and help you get back to the path. it is a no-fly zone. there's typically no aircrafts. i'm sure it happens and continues to happen. >> didn't fdr, didn't he make a wrong turn when he was driving to try to get to shangri-la? did he come across a neighbor that was not too happy to see him? >> yes, it happens. we don't drive

as much around as we did. we are always surrounded by agents. there is been those humorous events. knock on the door, lady yelled at him. it's a poignant moment about every day life between humans. >> dennis asks, what is the longest a president has stayed there? wasn't carter there for a week or more during the middle east? >> there was a time carter was over a week during the peace talks. clinton went to the g8 summit. president carter also went there during the 1979. he came back and gave that malaise. he talked about the condition of the country. we had hostages taken. all this was going on. he secluded himself almost two weeks during that difficult time and his presidency. typically, presidents go for a weekend. out friday and back

sunday night. >> jeff asked a good question, how did eisenhower get naming rights to name camp david camp david. was there an executive order? what it legislation? did he just have someone go out with lumber and paint and redo the signs? >> i like the second explanation best. i don't know. i imagine there must of been something signed to change the name from shangri-la to camp david. >> karen asked for, the president chooses not to visit camp david, how does that change? >> staffing operations don't change. you are always ready, your mission is always ready to receive. some presidents have actually let camp david be used by guests.

president carter visited with his family during the clinton term. it was carter again. the former president visited. some presidents have allowed staff to use it. if no one is there, you just maintain the place and take care of it. it can be a morale issue. if no one visits, i had a 5 month gap--that is a lot of time not to do your job. you get a little rusty. you have to practice at times. and then some, weekend some presidents are always on. it becomes quite an increase in uptempo. >> that is the question that gabby has. what happens at camp david when the president is away? what do you do as the staff? >> we have more time to do training and physical fitness programs and

contests if time allows it. our sailors in marine go to school. you need to always be ready. you are really sitting and waiting taking care of the place. you are mowing the grass. you are training, it is constant. because you're always ready, you're ready to execute when the president does visit and we look forward to it. >> jeff asks, has hollywood or the news media for documentary for example ever filmed on site at camp david? >> harry reisner with abc news interviewed president ford inside the camp. i believe that's the only time there was an interview done in that regard. certainly during world events like middle east peace summit in 2000, the press was there. a secluded area to film. the principle is coming in and then he was out on the bus. there have been hollywood

guests of various presidents and musical guests and sports guests but to know real filming or documentaries done at camp david other than something from the archive. and any presidential films from the libraries. >> peter asks, what is the reason for the new pets rule at camp david. >> it was self grown. and our people that live there. it depends on what's happening. reading a book about the incident with nixon and the french poodle and the camp dog, it is a humorous time. it's why that's dictated changes at times. today, we are a little more reasonable. >> kathy asks, he mentioned the library, what kind of books are in the library? does it depend upon the administration? do the books change depending upon the president or first family? >> we keep some archives in a open public library near -- it's more of the history. that's where all the white house

christmas cards and holiday cards are kept. we frame all those. we put those in the movie theater of the library. in the cabin, holly, which is where carter chose to meet with sadat because of the smaller nature, i like that room because that library is most of presidential papers. there's copies of the presidential papers that are published and other historical novels about the military services and presidents. that's what we mean when we refer to the two libraries. one for publicly use and one for the history of camp david and the second presidential papers. >> missy asks, do you have any stories about the johnson years in camp david. >> chuck howe, age 95 in california chuck and his family

were there from kennedy to johnson years. in the book, it talks about johnson being particularly about scalding hot water in the shower and how chuck and the crew worked endlessly to try to make it hotter than possible. how the air conditioning works and all those other things we fight within our home chuck talks about the transition from kennedy reacting to the assassination, and the change of administration, and then bringing president johnson into the camp. >> grant asks, has president biden visited camp david? >> he has been there eight times. he leaves most weekends going to delaware. and he's been to camp david eight times. >> and also as vice president. tiffany has, has camp david ever been damaged by bad weather? >> there are microburst on the hill. they will sometimes knock down

trees. fortunately, nothing serious has hit the area where camp david is. >> marianne asked a good question has there ever been a wedding at camp david? >> one wedding. the bush's daughter was married in the chapel. one wedding. >> it's all from facebook asks, what was the biggest surprise you ever had while working at camp david? >> the day the sprinklers went off when president clinton was chipping golf balls behind aspen. the sprinklers go off, i didn't witness it, but the secret service are watching nearby. the sprinklers went off again. he threw his clubs into the golf cart. the bag wasn't secure. the clubs fell over, it's humorous, but you can understand the frustration of someone dealing with that. i try to make light of it that night when he left camp david

about finding water holes. it was a poor attempt at humor. you learn the balance of when to be serious and not too serious, when to not be too humorous and went to not be -- that was the funniest time. fortunately, there were no serious incidents. there are tough things going on in the world. i left the month before 9/11 occurred. we spent a lot of time describing what that commander went through at the time. light moments during my time. >> charlene asks, and much heads up to you get when a president is coming? >> it depends on the president. the change of command day, 10 am, 10 am and my president sister knew that clinton was scheduled. 10 am ceremony that morning before the ceremony you get word. the president is coming that night. so, a fascinating factor to realize you're about to inherit the camp. you know nothing about

what goes on. you've had briefings. you are the new co. you're driving the cart. i found that to be a very fortunate event. it taught me just to sit back and let people do their jobs. all i have to do is get dressed up and introduce myself and shake hands and that's all i did. i learned a lot about my crew. let people do their job, train them, have their back, support them, let them do their job. that was no notice. the bush administration, we always knew well ahead of time. it depends on the person. >> jane asked a good question. can the vice president and his or her family go there as well? >> if the president allows them. it has happened in history. sometimes the president will let staff or others go away for leadership.

president obama did that for his staff members. the commander at the time and the chapel giving history brief. they welcome people. they do what they're there to do. they go back on a sunday. it varies. >> caroline asks do you know how the pandemic has affected the camp or the new procedures. >> very observant of mask rules early on. very observant of vaccinations. again, this is the trump administration, the beginning of the biden administration, everyone is very observant of following the rules. by the white house, the white house what the president wants or the navy's health protection condition. a very appropriate response. i don't think it's held back. maybe it's held back from one of the outside guess. certainly no at world leaders have been there

in five years. i think that will open up with world leaders attending more. >> bill says, i know the answer to this question. i'm going to ask it anyway. is camp david ever opened two tours? can the average american ever go? >> bill, you are spot on. it is not open. there's a fake white house website out there that advertises weekend tours. don't believe that. it's not true. -- [inaudible] crew members can have guest visits. either know someone who works there if allowed or know the president and be invited as his or her guest. >> jayne asks, what's the food like? a good question. >> we run a galley for ourselves. that's available to guests if they wanted. there is the lounge and bar. it has bar food available. for visits we,

work with the first family in the social secretary to work the menu. and we have well trained culinary specialists who sometimes work with the president chef or the white house to prepare the meals. for world leaders, we work with the state department, especially for kosher meals during the yasir arafat visit they brought kosher meals from d. c.. they provided meals for the guests. we accommodate the guests. day today we have a galley that serves the crew that works there. >> jackie is watching on youtube asks, what is something that you think every american should know about camp david? >> to get to the jeopardy question, is it the first shangri-la. it is a navy command just like marine ones

is a marine command and air force one's and -- et cetera. he was first established in 1942 by roosevelt. >> missy asks, what's the highest rank of someone from the marines or the navy at camp david? >> the camp commander is a commander, a u.s. navy commander. sometimes that officer might be selected for captain, he or she is the -- it is a commander. the senior marine is a captain, the co of the security company. for the white house communication agency detail that's there, maybe a lieutenant colonel, typically the u.s. army. >> our last question this evening. several viewers have asked this. why did you decide to write the book on camp david. and what was one or two things that were fascinating that you learned? >> wonderful final question. on the day of the change of

command there is a photo of my wife and two daughters at the age of seven and four. my wife michelle. she hands me this journal. the first page of the journal is a scrawled note from the two girls saying, dear daddy please write stories about the presidents journal. the kids will read about them. it was humorous, right? i would've never thought about it. so, after every visit or vans i would sit down and i just kind of would write down what happens. i did that to the clinton administration, at the end of that i did at the inauguration for bush. but i sat in my desk. i never thought i could -- their union weekend during the previous commanders, a lot of the former commanding officers and the chiefs and spouses where there. they were all meeting each other. summer meeting for the first time. some we had known each other for years. i had heard, many of them were talking about trying to capture someone's history. i learned later that many had

written their own stories. i first realized that i could write the book as long as i had security review done, it was possible. i knew i wasn't going to write anything that was unattractive to any president. i knew i could weave in 15 stories of other commanding officers and get the history. now we can bring the whole history of the camp, a lot of the camps together. other cos and tell their stories. you will see their stories and names in the books. you will see the photos. and use it to become a historical narrative for some of the personal insights. -- some people wanted stories. that wasn't the purpose. it was to show respect and to tell the story. and a little bit about the military supports the presidency around the world 24/7. >> thank you so

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