richard, you are not forgotten. we want to thank you for for this book. we lost you. and so the nowhere bookshop tent outside the festival marketplace, they have book sales and signings and the next events coming up shortly after this one. so you can exit quickly we can get the new one going on. i'm david martin davies. thank you so much for being part of this.

my name is sarah zenaida gould and i'll your moderator for this session. thank you. to the central library for helping us present this amazing day. and thank you to the juan holt family for sponsoring this beautiful venue. we encourage to share your experience today on social media and tag essay book fest. all events in this are being recorded by c-span fans book tv. so with that in mind, key, please make sure that your cell phones are silenced and please note that flash photography is not permitted. book sales and finance will take place after this session at the nowhere bookshop tent right outside in the market place. please support, your local

economy and our official bookseller by buying your books here at the festival marketplace. okay now i'm going to introduce author dr. omar valerio-jimenez is professor of history, the university of texas at san antonio, and the associate director i'm sorry, the associate dean for graduate studies for college of liberal and fine arts. he was born and matamoras and grew up in taft. corpus christi and edinburg, texas after graduating from, he worked an engineer for five years before attending ucla, where he obtained his master's doctorate degrees. at utsa, he teaches courses in latinos borderlands, the united states, race and ethnicity, public history and immigration. his publications include river of hope, forging identity and

nation in the rio grande borderlands and currently with funding the national endowment for the humanities. the spencer foundation. his on a comparative study of educational reform efforts in new mexico and texas. his new book is remembering conquest mexican-americans, memory and citizenship. we're now going to move into a conversation, but please note that at the end of the conversation, we will. audience questions. welcome. thank you. farah. i have to say, your your first book, one accolades awards brought really great scholarship to borderlands history. and now you have this new book, remembering conquest. so my question initially you is what inspired you to write remembering conquest and in particular was there any

personal connection shaped your interest in this moment in history? sure. thank you for the question. so in in us history, there is a lot of literature, a lot of books and articles on history and memory, and usually the books are about the civil war. so there's lots of books about, how the wars remembered and so forth. and so when i was reading those books in graduate school. i thought, you know, why is it why isn't there a book about history in memory of the us-mexican war? because that was more me more significant because of who i am. and as you heard, i was in mexico and came here when i was or i was brought here by my parents when i was six years old. and so so so that was part it. and then the other thing that i mentioned, the introduction to my book is this conversation that i had when i first moved to taft. we first moved to taft. there was a little boy next door who who asked me where i was from and where i came from. and i told him.

and as soon as i told him, we got into sort of friendly disagreement about the us war, if you can believe that, as a six year old. right. and you know, he was taking in the way i explained it in the book is that he was he was offering the sort of the interpretation he had learned in u.s. schools, us public schools, and he was he was latino. he was mexican-american. and i was offering the the interpretation that i had learned not in i don't think it was in mexican public schools because i had just gone to first grade there. so but i had learned, i think and this is part why, you know, i what i talk about i had learned about sort of the collective of the war through my family through my older sister, who was in the audience here and she would, for instance, told me about ninos edwards, the boy heroes that most people in the us don't know about. children in mexico learn about this. these are the cadets, military cadets who died defending the castle of chapultepec in mexico city. and so anyway, so those stories,

you know, i grew up with those stories. and then i thought about those. i was doing work on my first book. i kept running into references the war and for example, was doing research at ut. rgv in the special collections and i came across a sort of an oral history, a transcribed oral history by, a very famous politician in south texas who had married or whose ancestors had married. i think there were german initially, but they had married into mexico and families. and so in this transcribed oral history, he this very dark period that happened after the war and i thought he was talking about because it was the century politician i thought he's talking about world war two. and as i read more, i realized, no, he's talking about the us-mexican war. and i thought, well, how did he know he wasn't alive? and i so i kept thinking about that and thinking how do people, you know, remember something that they didn't witness right? and i think we remember partly

oral histories that our our families pass along, but we remember the past, you know, like just like we remember, you know, episodes, texas history, because we're taught these these stories in school. and so so that's that's how it came up. and also, you know, in my introduction and i'll read a passage later about other that you know i grew up crossing the border back and forth many times when i was when i was young because i had family in matamoros. so, you know, we were constantly that that we sort of had to how do i say this prove our citizenship in ways know. and so i had a i had an uncle and this is the last story i'll tell. i had an uncle vettel who when came over he was sort of he was a very sort of sort of mexican nationalist, you know, he was he was really proud of mexicano. and he would say, so what are they teaching you over in the us?

and then, you know, he was he was just trying to kid with me, but he would say, ah they teach. have they taught you that texas used to belong to mexico? and like that really important to him. and growing up like i remember that. right. and i remember. why was it important for him to tell me that? and so this these are some of the stories that at least piqued my interest. the story about your uncle leads to actually my next question. for those of us who may not have a strong background in the us-mexico war, what is this conquest that you're referencing in the title? how did it shape mexican identity? sure. so on the conquest that i'm referring to is the us war. so the the war that began in 1846 and ended in 1848 with the the signing of the treaty of guadalupe hidalgo on february 2nd of 1848. and what happened is that after time and this had already occurred in texas a little bit, you know, with the texas

revolution, but what would happen is that, you know, slowly mexican americans. so mexican-americans are the first latino in the us, right? they're also the first people of color who were granted upon their incorporation. so in 1848, with the of the treaty, they the the mexican people who were living in the territories that were formerly belong mexico, like new mexico, texas, arizona, parts of colorado and california were automatically given a choice. and their choice was to become a citizen, the us right away, to be to remain mexican citizen or not to do anything. and then within a year they would automatically become mexican americans. so they would become citizens by treaty, in a way. and anyway. but what happened after after. after 1848, in that first generation? is that slowly, surely mexico and americans started losing social, economic and political

power throughout the us southwest in various ways. they lost land some of the land was taken illegally. some of it was legally. they lost power. and this this happened gradually in some places. it happened much faster. in other places. so in southern texas, you know, mexican-americans, because they're a majority there and remain a majority throughout the 19th century and into today, they continue to hold some power and share power with with anglo americans, as we say in texas in new mexico. they hold on to power much longer in l.a. they they they held on to power. the the the the the power sort of transfer to anglo-americans or european-americans much faster. so it has to do with demographics. if there was a large mexican-american population, they were able hold on to power a little bit longer. and so that's what i was talking about, that they were sort of conquered. they, you know, and i explain they had been or their ancestors

had been part of the spanish colonies who came to, you know, what the what we call the northern borderlands, mexico's northern berlin. and they were of the conquering population, right? they conquered in various ways the native american population throughout texas in the southwest and all of a sudden, after the us takes over, they are now the conquered people. so, you know, laws go from mexican laws, us laws, the spanish language gets replaced by the english language and so forth. and when what were the challenges in tracing mexican-american collective memory of the us-mexico war? and maybe also just speak a little bit what collective memory is. so collective memory way we understand it is, you know, that memory that consist of our individual memory, our group memory, like we were part of a group or, you know, part of either a family or an ethnic

identity. you know, mexican-americans and, you know, sort of a larger of the memory that nation sort of sort of presents, either through monument or through books or so forth and all of, you know, individually is the collective that we sort of learn we don't we don't some of that memory is our own memory, right, that we lived through. but know, i didn't i wasn't aware, you know i was alive when the us vietnam war was occurring, but i wasn't aware of what was going on and i've learned that memory. i've learned about that through books, through movies and so forth, songs and also and other things. and so that's what we were taught historians refer to as collective memory and, forgot the question, which is our history. memory of the us-mexico war. so challenge is, you know, is that you don't really when when historians go to archives we don't necessarily you might go to archive and you see okay there's there's there's a a folder or a box of of documents

for a certain family or, a certain organization like the naacp or lulzsec or, you know, what have. but you're not going to have necessarily a box that says collective of the us-mexico war. so it's a little harder right? it's not like in the movies, you know, that that happens in the movies, but it's not. that's real life. and so i started by going to certain events, certain people that i knew and, you know, from, from my, my, my work. so my idea antonia, mariane barrow, richard burton, who's a novelist from california, who wrote several novels, but one of them is the squadron the dawn, and it's about the dispossession of a wealthy elite california people from california mexican-americans. and so i she had written about it. so i went to that right. i knew of certain organizations like, lew, like the league of united latin american citizens. so i knew that right? and so i went i started by thinking, okay, what some of

these people, organizations that i know and let me see if they if they ever discussed the us-mexican war or the treaty. and so that's part of what i did. and then i, you know, looked at newspapers and such. but the difficulty is that, you know, it's not necessarily categorized way and i'm sure there are many you know sources there that i miss or i just don't know like in family papers and so forth and so, you know, luckily there there are, you know, finding aides. you for historians and so there was ways that i could that i could sort of make a make an intelligent of where and where i was going to find information. but that's difficulty. and the other difficulty i'll say, is that for most populations that that are sort of out of power. right. they're not going to have as many sources. so, you know, women in the 19 century, children of the 19th century, african americans, mexican, so forth, they didn't

they weren't the political leaders necessarily. and so they're not going to have a lot of sources that are left behind. so you have to rely on you know, you have to be creative. so you do a beautiful job in this book. and in the previous book mixing together what i call traditional historical primary sources. but also literature and other just that literary tradition that does exist in our history and our but those creatively put it's to create you know sort of a combination of resource for your your evidence. yeah i'm one of your central ideas is that memory and citizenship deeply linked can you about how remembering the past helped mexican-americans their place in the united states. sure. and in this particular case for my book, you know, the past that for for for that i was looking

for the the memory of the past was the memory, the war and the memory of the treaty. so the treaty gave citizenship, right they said the treaty said, you who live in these areas in you know, in the conquered lands in the the us southwest as as any mexican immigrants who are naturalized. right and become u.s. citizens they can become for u.s. citizens. and so what civil rights activists, what scholars, what journalists, what they would do is, they would say, you know, they would be say struggling against school segregation. they were they were struggling, you know, incidents of lynching in the in in the early 20th century. um, they the journalists would repeatedly say, you know what, what happened to the treaty? the treaty said that we were promised citizenship and we're not being the government aren't making sure that these rights

are respected. right. and so that that is that's one way that they remembered. but there's there's many other ways. i mean, you know, shooting back or fast forwarding into the sixties and seventies, brown berets held the march throughout the u.s. southwest that they sort of. where they mentioned the war and where they i mean, it was it was it was called the march of the latter reconquista or the march of the reconquest. and that was, you know, sort of tying back to the war. and then you in the in the 20, what is it, 20 the early 2000s, um, 26 maybe there these immigration marches right across the us. and one of the slogans that they that people, um, you know, shouted, you know, during these slogans is we didn't cross the border, the border crossed us. well that's what they're referring to. mexican-americans referring to the us mexican war, that when

the war ended, right. the u.s., the border between, the us and mexico shifted southward to its present, where the players presently, um situated and you know, all these people who lived the north part of, you know, in the us side and today all of a sudden became, became u.s. citizens. yeah, i think you make a really important point in the book that collective memory of us mexico war influences mexican-american activism not in the 1960s, early seventies, you might expect, but also even before world war two and more recently. yeah. well, you know, i know you were going to read a passage from your book it might be a good time sure. to do that now. okay. thank you all. right. so i have to change classes because i'm at that age. sorry sorry.

okay, so here it is. so sometimes these memories lead mexican-americans to challenge official versions of war in minor consequential ways while growing up in texas, i often cross the international to visit my maternal extended family. so i was familiar with the interrogation processes that my father referenced in a story he often recounted throughout his life. my father had this border for economic, political, social reasons. his family fled the violence of the mexican revolution in the 19 tens by crossing into texas, where he and most of his siblings were born. my father's made the opposite trip into mexico to escape the anti-mexican violence that erupted in texas during the great depression. he attended segregated texas public schools until the fourth grade, when family moved to mexico, where he completed fifth grade before leaving school to. help his aunt to work to, help his family. by the 1960s, my father was living in matamoros with my

mother, their three children, but commuting to work the united states at the time was typical for u.s. immigration officers. ask border crossers a few questions about citizenship and destination before deciding whether to permit them into the united states. most u.s. citizens not have to show any identification if they answer the questions. english but my father was was a mexican american worker with. limited english proficiency, so he made the habit of carrying his certificate secured in a plastic covering to show immigration officials. these officers had questioned my father's answers previously. so according to my father, one day he experienced a tense interaction with a european american border official who questioned my father's answers about his birthplace. the officer told my father that he had never heard of hills prairie. this is a small town in texas. my father was born near austin and he if it was located in

mexico, obviously questioning my father's honesty. so my father answered in a way that recalled the 19th century conflict. my father explained that hills prairie was in, but mexico, texas at one time. so perhaps he was born in texas when mexico owned it. so officer did not like my father's reply and refused him entry. undeterred, my father gained entry by traveling to the other international bridge connecting matamoros and brownsville. the time there was there was only two. now there's more. but the story that he retold would bear lasting repercussion. and one more paragraph by recalling this border crossing. my father transmitted a memory of the of the legacy of one of the legacies of the us mexico war. to add to my collective memories the conflict when my father first relayed this account, it seemed like another cautionary tale of the of crossing the border, interacting with us immigration officials at the

international border is often fraught with tension for mexican americans, despite their us citizenship. while my father recall the rather uncontroversial fact about the war that is mexico all texas before the united states acquired it the context of his response politicized this fact rather than show meekness humility in responding, my father asserted his knowledge of history and sarcastically the officer deploying weapon of the week. he contested state power in an everyday form of resistance along the border and kill my. i want to ask you, how have mexican-americans being erased from public memory and what tools or spaces have they used to keep those histories alive? okay. so in various ways, i mean, i think have played a huge spanish

language newspapers that existed in the 19th century, early 20th century, and still today, you know, these journalists have reminded people about past, especially, you know, tragedies occur. and so that's one way. another way is, you know, i one of the one of the people that i came across was an author, history historian, really. he a lawyer, benjamin morris from new mexico. his had actually been an american anglo american, who who accompanied steve kearney with you as u.s. troops entered new mexico. and so he married a woman. and noemi garner and had three sons. and all three sons were educated and lawyers. and so benjamin was a lawyer. but as after he he was he you know, he left legal degree a legal profession. he started writing. and when he started writing, he

wrote one of the first books about the war of us-mexican war. and from a new mexican perspective and, he also started collecting oral of other known mexicanos because he felt it was really important to have those histories in the archive. and so that's an example. but you know, from texas, carlos castaneda, the carlos eduardo castaneda, who was a professor at ut-austin did the same. he was interested in collecting documents related mexican-americans or tejanos, because he knew that those documents were harder to find in the archives. it's really hard to read this book and not thinking about the present moment and. i and i know you're a historian, but i do want to ask, how do you see the legacy of the us-mexico war shaping mexican-american identity and activism today, yeah, that's a hard question.

i mean, one of the things that that happened, you know, during the great depression, when mexicans immigrate, were deported and, encouraged to self-deport like my my my paternal family did, and many others. is that some mexican political organizations wanted to distance themselves from mexican immigrants and the famous that we know of is lula. they didn't want to they didn't admit actually immigrants into their organization. and in the 1930s when the organization and their first years and so so they took very as an organization took a very distant stand and they did they actually before the the the repatriation started they actually were encouraging, you know, the us government to get rid of these immigrants. and so i think that that one of

the things that happened i would say during this is the official for it operation -- in 1954. is that the us government started deporting mexican immigrants right. and by this time some of these immigrants had been in the u.s. for quite a long time. so they had established families. so they were part of what we call mixed status families, where families are like one person might be an undocumented immigrant, another person might be a permanent resident, others might be citizens like the children might be citizens, and when some of these groups, the ufw, the united farm workers, actually was was encouraged in the us, deport some of these people. the american gi forum like once again. but when they saw that it affected so many in the community and that families were being broken, broken apart. they changed their tune and they started saying, you know, we have to stop that. and so i my, my hope today would be, you know, once again i'm

glad you said i'm a historian. i studied the past and not the present is that know my hope is that that mexican civil rights organizations or latino rights organizations or others just civil rights organizations. you learn from the past and learn that this going to happen and it is happening right. there's there's been stories in the san antonio express-news about families being broken because of deportations. but speaking of learning from the past, do you think that enough is being done to include the history, the us-mexico war and public education and national narratives? well, as a historian, answer is not enough, obviously, right? because we always want more of our history being right. so and you know, in our currently there's there's there's attacks on, you know, on history there's attack on the eye, there's attacks on. what is being taught in public schools, what's being taught at the university is is a next step. so before i think these attacks, i think there was sort of

gradual, i would say progress towards being incorporating, becoming or incorporating more people. more people color incorporating women into the curriculum or women's history, incorporating history of children and, so forth. and i think that you know some of that is going to i don't think it will be lost. i mean, i'm an optimist that way. i think i think that's just not going to the progress isn't going to go as fast as it was going before. right. but there's so many people that know about the history of african-americans, the history of native, that i don't think whatever the the powers that be, however, they try to erase it. i there's too many people that already know it. you what what we have gone through right. and so i think when this turbulence is over, i think i think the progress will continue. yeah. wow. so i'm a historian who works in the museum field. so this question is a little

self-serving, i guess, but i just think i up in texas, i went to texas public schools. i feel like i came out of high school knowing very little about the us-mexico war and so i just wonder if there were the opportunities there to create an exhibit that could be seen by multigenerational families in and a museum space about the us-mexico war and its impact on mexican-american collective memory identity. what would that exhibit look? sure. this is a great question. i'll answer it in two parts. one, i think so. i did help sort of evaluate such an exhibit at the bullock. the bullock up in austin had a exhibit on the treaty guadalupe hidalgo and it was pretty good, you know, it was fairly good. i mean, there were things that were missing that i would, you know, i would have included. but you know what? like we all know museums have limited space, so they could only do so much. but, you know, they, they items

like obviously. items from, you know, from both sides. and so forth. i think i would i would have liked to have included more items from sort of the mexican the mexican government perspective. right. why were they trying to defend the territory. right. um, i remember when so sort of jumping to current events, you know, that when the former speaker the house was asked about you what was going on in ukraine and russia and so forth, and he said, you know, the u.s. has never done this and he represented, you know, california, which was one of the one of the territories taken by the u.s. during the us-mexican war. so, you know, he sort completely conveniently forgot that part. right. and so i would i would i would say that i would would also argue that some of the newspapers that, you know, published about some of incidences that you know, we were there during the war or what happened after the war.

right. i think would be important to include but also i think including so and they did in this in this exhibit at the bullet they did include sort of native american and i think that would be important as well. i mean, there's been historians who who've written and who have argued that that the native americans, certain native american groups had, a large sort of role in the outcome of the us-mexican and by by sort of having weakened the mexican government through their attacks. so we do have some time for audience questions. if you have a question we, do ask that you use the micro phone any any audience questions. we do have one. okay. i think they're going to bring you the microphone here it comes. and oh, well, they're setting up i have bookmarks for about my book. so if you're if you're interested, i'll give them to you afterwards just to provide.

can you hear me? yeah. okay, perfect. i guess i just wanted to ask as you've analyzed the mexican-american war, would you say that it was as black and white as most like most history books portray? it or would you think that there's more like there's not like a good in like a there are good and bad. well i mean was you know historians will say from both sides, you know, work from mexico in the u.s., there was an aggressor and there was a sort of a nation that was being attacked. right. so in that sense, that's pretty clear the u.s. was attacking another country to obtain territory. but you're right, it's black and white. i mean, one of the examples that i give, for example, is that, you know, the war split families, just like the texas revolution for the families. right. some some wanted mexican

american families, for example, like the civil war as well, and the end of the american. not everyone sided with one side or the other. and in san antonio, we know from the texas revolution that there were families that, you know, sided, some sided with mexico, some sided with with the texas rebels. the same thing happened that the us-mexican war. and so there was, you know, people in cal in california, for example, that welcomed the americans and then once the once the war was over, they sort of their decision because they were treated not as as equal citizens but as second class citizens. so there's a lot of gray area there right where you it's that you know when when people are going through a war they are they don't know who's going to who's going to be the victor and. so they try to remain neutral. and that's what a lot of the handlers did during the during the texas revolution they tried to neutral but was difficult because both the army for example and the texas rebels

believed that if you were trying to leave, you're not with us, then you're against us. and so there was a lot of that. but i think in general i think it's important to read more about the us-mexican war to learn about why is it that certain people took a certain stance right. i mean in some cases you know so my brother is the burton wrote about this for california she married a us military officer so she was looking at it from both sides like her husband was part of the conquering, you know, us army. and yet she ended up siding with the californians and she ended up actually eventually acquiring a ranch that she lost to squatters. and so it's a really thing, you know, where sometimes it's not black and white, right? it's a there's a lot of gray area. and i think for us, for historians that's what we like the gray area because. we know, you know, like i told this story before, in another academic that, you know, when

you see a a history and you read a history that's very black, white, it's not that interesting, you know, it's the gray areas that makes it right. like we all have in our own families. we have, you know, things that we're not, you know, our families aren't proud of. but that's what's you know, if everyone was a goody two shoes, it's like, no, you know, like that's that's not realistic we have. one more audience question. oh, yes. my question is related to. what i think is a collective memory of. most people that went to, uh, through middle school here in san antonio or in texas and to require it to take texas history, but the way it was taught was that like the, the movie the alamo that thousands of mexican guns, evil mexicans, you know, lost the seven or eight brave, you heroes. and so it that was the history

that was covered and i don't think i remember anything going back to what with the treaty of guadalupe hidalgo or anything. have you found that to be true across texas? what to be true the the portrayal of texas history. yeah just being centered on the texas and yeah i mean i think in my generation i think that's slowly changing you know, i think that i mean, i as part of a being a historian university professor, one of the things that we do is we hold workshops for teachers with old school teachers and in those workshops, we have to review, which we normally don't do right. we review the tics, the, the the sort of guidelines on teaching, right that for public schools and, you know at least the last time i reviewed them, i'm not sure, with what shape they're in now, right. because of the the attacks on d i but the last time i reviewed them there was this sort of at least effort to include tejano

history, include african-american history. right now, i haven't seen the textbooks. i haven't seen that currently the textbooks that are being used and as any public teacher will tell you or a university professor or, um, you can't cover everything because there's not enough time and, and so it depends on a lot of times it depends on the instructor, on the teacher. like do they make an effort to, to to focus on not just the, like the texas revolution, but both sides of the texas revolution to to explain like, hey, like the ins here in san antonio, the esparza family was divided, right? one one brother fought for once, one for one side, another brother fought on the other side, and one brother died at the alamo the other brother was was part of the mexican army. right. and one in the the brother who died at the alamo, his children saw what happened. and so that's a complicated story. that's not black and white. right. and so i think that more people are that i don't know, because i'm not a public school teacher. i don't know what's what's taught now, i'll tell you that

it did at least that the university level. we do try to make that that you know an effort to include more people at least we at least i do. and i think a lot of my colleagues utsa. we can do one more. and then unfortunately we are going to have to wrap. yes. uh, my understanding is and correct on this that on the american the powers that be wanted to provoke the war and it that's true. oh i at least is reason to believe that there's some truth in that does your book go into the motivations behind that. is there religious or spiritual component you know manifest destiny type of thing? sure. so my first chapter is is sort of the that opens, you know, that discuss this why the war

was waged right. and the us initially wanted to buy some of this land, but mexico refused. so they took a two pronged strategy. they sort of a diplomatic strategy. but when refused to sell this land, they decided we're going to we're going to we're going to we're going to try to provoke an incident, which they did. and down in down in brownsville, the so-called thorton, a third skirmish. and so and that's happened before. right. it's happened in the gulf of tonkin. that was another another example. but it's happened all over the place. right. and all over the world, not just the us. so yeah, there was a provocation and but yeah. was about getting territory and that's what the war was, was fought for and in some cases some people it was about the expansion of slavery. they wanted slavery to be able to expand and henry david thoreau, who some of you might know, remember from from from literature class, he he went to jail instead of paying some taxes because he said this war is being fought to promote

slavery. and so he went to jail and wrote his famous notes on civil disobedience from jail in massachusetts. so i was all in there. sorry. thank you so much for your enthusiasm for this. thank you, omar. and thank you, everyone, for being here. i just want to remind you that you can head over to the nowhere bookshop tent outside of the festival market place to meet omar, ask additional questions, buy a book, get it signed, and the next event will be coming into this room shortly. so thank you so much for helping us clear the room for the event. thank you