tv U.S. House of Representatives CSPAN October 7, 2009 5:00pm-8:00pm EDT
shocking claims in the case against casey anthony. a man says he saw the accused child killer, casey, with her daughter, caylee, the last day the little girl was seen alive and he's not painting a pretty picture of a loving mother here. plus, casey's own father, george, testifies about the smell of death in her car then hours later his only daughter is arrested. we'll talk about that and this. sex in the workplace? of course, the person in the spotlight admitting to office relationships with former coworkers. what about your office, is it ever okay to mix business and pleasure? can't wait to hear from you on this one.
and whether you've done it or not or absolutely refuse to. we want to know what you think. what about bosses and subordinates? call in 1-877-tell-hln is the number. e-mail us or text us. just start your message with the word "prime." it's your chance to be heard. welcome. this is prooim news. i'm mike galanos. stunning claims in the case against casey anthony. we have a new state witness here says he saw casey with little caylee on the last day she was seen alive. the defense isn't going to like this one. instead of a loving mom, the witness said casey appeared competitive, even jealous of her only child. we'll deal with this plus casey's father, george testifies about the smell of death in her car then hours later, coming to find out, she's charged with murder. did he help put the final nail in his daughter's coffin as far as her getting charged with murder? we'll take your calls, as always 1-877-tell-hln is the number. joining us to talking about
florida state prosecutor pam bondi and producer from the nancy grace show -- we'll get to pam in a minute. what did jim have to say now, he had a box in the store of beanie babies which he gives to children who come into the store and offered to give one to caylee. he said she appreciated it but when he did offer this to caylee, casey anthony rolled her eyes and growned. now fast forward to a week later, june 16th, the last day that caylee was seen by anyone in the family and now also this man, james thompson. he was at a walmart. he remembered casey anthony from the time he had seen her the week prior. he said that caylee was walking about ten feet behind casey anthony and she had to open the
big door at walmart by herself. he felt that it was a competitive nature, he felt that she wasn't treating her very well. and he also said he didn't go up and speak to her because he had had enough trouble with women who did not take good care of their children in the past. >> wow. so, he's really laying it out there. pam bondi, how much does this help prosecutors? because this guy is late coming to the game but on the other side some pretty damning stuff. >> he is. he is. he is very late coming to the game and they are going to have to decide, mike, as we've talked about in the past, whether or not they need this evidence. because it will be attacked by the defense attorneys because he's late coming into the game. why didn't he come forward sooner? but, how it's relevant, of course, are her actions, how she treated her child just before she went missing. now, him speculating that she was too busy and didn't care enough about her, none of that's going to come in. that's all called speculation.
but what he observed regarding her actions could be relevant if they feel they need it but they don't want to muddy the waters at this point. >> okay. back to you talking about a timeline, when did jim thompson come forward? >> he just came forward recently, mike, july 22nd of '09, this year. >> just a few months ago. >> just a few months ago, he came forward. >> okay. obviously the defense will go after that, pam bondi. what do you do if you are prosecutors and want this guy in on this, how do you make him credible? what makes him credible, or not? >> well, they're going to have to find out that they're going to say, why didn't you come forward sooner if they choose to put him on the witness stand. i frankly doubt at noint they are going to want it use him because he came forward so late in the game. but, they had to turn all this information over to the defense. anything new they get, they're required to turn over to the defense. that doesn't mean they're going to use it. >> okay. >> that makes it a public record. >> talking time line here, natiha, he says he saw little
caylee with casey june 16th. that fits the time line doesn't it? george saw caylee the last time on june 16th, the last time anybody's seen her. this fits, doesn't it? >> yeah, it absolutely does fit. this would be the only person outside of george anthony, outside of casey anthony who would have seen caylee alive for the last time that we know about at this point. george anthony says the last time he saw caylee when they left the house, about 1:00 p.m. on the 16th. >> when you talk time line, na tish sharks do investigators say they have a date, exact date they believe also caylee died. >> not an exact date, mike. it's an approximation, they believe it was sometime between june 16th and june 18th. >> pam, do you need a specific date here as a prosecutor or is that window of 16th through 18 enough for you as you try and prove this case. >> no, the window is fine, again, if they chose to use him because as she just said he fits nicely into that window an and one of the last people to see the little girl alive but he's going to have a real good reason as to why he didn't come foertd sooner because the prosecution's
case is so good at this point, you know, they need to be real careful about putting on witnesses who can be subject to tough cross-examination. >> na tish sha, do we have that answer from jim thompson, why did he wait so long or why did he come forward now, what compelled him. >> don't have the answer yet but i will say from his sworn statement, it was very detailed. he remembered what casey anthony was wearing and the mannerisms they had and the specific questions she was asking about the computer screen and because casey anthony, he says, looks so good when she came into his computer store, that's why he remembered her the following week when he saw them at walmart. >> wow. okay. there's that. another topic we'll hit on, judge rules that george anthony's grand jury testimony can be released to prosecutor. natisha, before we hit break, take us back. when did george anthony testify and what did he say? >> well, george anthony testified just hours before casey anthony was indicted for the murder of caylee, her
daughter. we don't know what he said during that grand jury testimony because that has been sealed but now the prosecution has asked for the transcript of that. if that transcript is turned over to the defense, we would then get it -- it would then be released to the pub fwlik. >> okay. we'll continue this part of the conversation when we come back. call in, always love hearing from you, the number 1-877-tell-hln.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln continuing our conversation concerning latest in the case against casey anthony. here's what we know, a new state witness, a man named jim thompson says he saw casey interacting with little caylee the last day she was seen alive, on june 16th, basically did not paint a good picture of casey as
mom. saying -- assuming it up it seemed like little caylee was in the way to mom, casey anthony. we take your calls, your facebook comments, we'll read one, from lorie writing this it sounds like the innocent girl was sacrificed for her mother's insecurities and shortcomings, tragic. a lot of you passionately following this one. that's from lorie. call in, by the way 1-877-tell-hln is the number. we have our experts standing by pam bondi. another topic we are hitting on george anthony, the judge rules, little caylee's grandfather, his grand jury testimony can be released to it prosecutors. pam, as a prosecutor what are you looking for here, what's going to key your case. >> well, mike, what that tells me, the reason they want it is because george anthony is now probably giving inconsistent statements that. is the only reason. it typically just to explain to everyone what happens in a grand jury is completely confidential and that's why, to obtain that -- those transcripts, they
had to go before the judge and ask the judge to release them. now, the "orlando sent nenl" is reporting the judge did rule in favor of the state and those transcripts will be released. meaning, that the prosecutors believe that he said something in that grand jury testimony that is inconsistent with other testimony he has given, which makes me believe he's probably even backing off his story even more. there's a high likelihood of that. >> okay. one place where we saw inconsistency was when george anthony was talking to investigators right after little caylee went missing, he was very forthcoming talking about the smell, could be human decomposition in casey's car. let's go back and listen to george anthony talking to investigators. >> i got within three feet of my daughter's car and the worst odor that you could possibly smell in this -- in this world and i've smelled that odor before. it smelled, uh, like a de --
decomposed body. >> there we have it, george anthony, as hard as that must have been to say and admit he smelled possibly decomposing body but the story changes later, right, then all of a sudden is it t is rotting pizza as the weeks and months go on. >> right. the story changed and changed again. also, mike, they are talking about sworn testimony george anthony a gave where they believe these inconsistencies happened. that was probably the testimony he gave in the gonzales case, that civil suit where george anthony was a bit combative with john morgan trying to get answers from him but, yeah, the story has changed over and over again, not only from george but, also from cindy anthony. >> good point. deeb bee is with us in canada. your thoughts here? >> caller: hi, how are you doing, mike. >> good, deeb bee. >> caller: i was just wondering if there was any video cameras in the store they said she was seen in? >> okay. very good question. pam bondi, let me ask you that one. i believe this is a walmart,
right? >> yeah, this is a walmart. >> you would figure there would be. would they keep that? we're not security experts but, pam, i'm sure investigators are looking going back to june 16th to see if there is any footage remaining, right? >> that's the problem, mike, he came forward so much later that that surveillance video is most likely gone. and that could have been crucial evidence for the prosecution, had he come forward earlier. i guarantee you, if it's out there, they are tying to get it and they will get it but i would think by this time it is long gone. >> pam, real quick when we talk about george anthony and the inconsistencies. >> yes. >> whether first saying decomposed body that smell or rotting pizza what he they said later. how important is that for prosecutors, is that a key piece in the case. >> i think it's going to be real -- they are going to need george anthony as a witness and i think it is going to be real clear to the jury at this point he is going to try to protect his daughter and he's backing off his story. what we know based on the forensic evidence, there were signs of decomposition in the
trunk of that car. law enforcement officers could smell that same smell of decomposition. so, you know, it's going to hurt his credibility a little bit but, i think everybody expected that to happen at some point in time. >> okay. guys, we have to leave it there. pam, nati is sha, we appreciate. who could forgive this story. lisa nowak, the astronaut accused of attacking her romantic rival. hold on, the prosecution says she withheld evidence. they want the case thrown out. joining me later my colleague and friend jane velez-mitchell. that's her new book, we'll talk about it "i want "tie is incredible and wide open. jane leaves no stone unturned and lays it out there about addiction, her struggles and the goal is to help you or someone close to you who's battling addiction. we're going to really get into it a bit later and want to hear from you. 1-877-tell-hln's the number.
who could forget this sister an astronaut involved in an ugly love triangle and allegedly confronts her rival. that case back in course and her attorneys trying to get the case thrown out of court. let's bring in our correspondent richelle carey with the latest to get everybody up to speed. go ahead. >> first of all, mike, the judge refused to throw the case out, so that's not happening. the incident happened in 2007. police say that an astronaut, lisa nowak drove from houston to orlando. i'm noo houston and can tell you it's a long trip. she went non-stop said to accuse her romantic rival dating an astronaut once involved with her. police say the nowak dressed in disguise, peppersprayed a shipment in the parking lot at
the parpt in orlando, charged with kidnapping batley, burglary and assault. her attorneys say the prosecution withheld evidence. they say there's a document that shows that shipman was never injured by any pepper spray. well again, the court refutesed to throw out the charges. they will allow the defense to depose coleen shipman on this new evidence, mike. so, that's where we are right now but clearly there's more to talk about now. >> definitely. okay that's for getting us up to speed. what happens next? we'll clear all this up for you. first off, pam, let in go to you about the judge's ruling here. did you think there was a possibility this was going to be thrown out based on you what heard? >> no, mike. >> okay. >> good solid ruling. she doesn't have to be injured by the pepper spray as long as it was used, it hit her, that's a battery. >> okay. let's talk about that and bring in joe. joe, clear that up here. was pepper spray used or not.
what are they arguing about here concerning the pepper sprayer? >> initially when colleen spoke with the first responders at the airport, the firefighters that came to the scene at the parking lot where the attack took place, she told them that, you know, she was sitting in her car, she had the window rolled up and when nowak showed up, knocked on the window and got her to bring the window down a little bit and fired the pepper spray but she told the first responders at the scene she didn't need their medical help, there was no pepper spray that got on her and she was fine, of course, later she's talking to the orlando police department to a different detective who wasn't there at the time when she made that statement. and her story changed just a bit, at least in his report was that she, indeed, was hit with the pepper spray. >> pam, back to where we started does, that even matter. if you can prove, i think pretty easy to prove pepper spray in the car. >> right. >> if she squirts pepper spray in the car that's an offensive act, rights? >> right. absolutely. it's burglary -- burglary of the
conveyance with assault or battery and the pepper spray was the pep upon used. she didn't even have to be injured by it. remember, that initial statement was taken so early on. imagine the trauma that that victim was experiencing at that point. so, she probably didn't know what happened. she was so shell-shocked. and, yeah, they're going to be able to staep -- if they're able to establish pepper spray was used, which it sounds like they were, that's not an issue. she's facing a crime punishable by life in prison, period. >> okay. and let's backtrack even further as we look at this, joe. what was lisa nowak's plan, at least what has been the plan that's been forwarded out there? she had more than just pepper spray with her, right? >> yeah, she had ropes in the car and other things the police found when she searched the vehicle after all this came out but, of course, all that evidence was thrown out because the judge felt that the police just acted improperly when they searched her car. so, none of that will be mentioned in the trial at all. >> okay. how much did this hurt the case,
pam? because you had, as joe mentions, we heard the pepper spray, rope, stun gun, knife, we saw the wig in the surveillance video, a hammer. you're not thinking good intentions with all those, we'll say that. but with that off the table, what do you do with the case? >> well again, you still have the victim's testimony in the case, but that greatly hurts the prosecution's case because what that shows is how premeditated this crime was. >> yeah. >> i mean, this is a scary woman who did this. she drove all this way to attack this woman. i mean, this is a horrible, horrible crime. and, yeah, that's some serious evidence that the prosecution is losing. >> okay. guys, let's take a quick break. when we get back we'll take your calls on this one, your thoughts on astronaut lisa nowak's and the case against her 1-877-tell-hln is the number. also we'll get an update where is everybody now? what's gone on with lisa nowak colleen shipman, bill oiflein.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. i have a special guest coming up in just a little bit my colleague acfriend jane velez-mitchell is going to join me to talk about her new book "i want" it is a candid book about jane's life, her addictions, alcoholism, how she beat it and her story, how she went deep into some dark wounds in her life, how she went there and comes out better for it. an inspiration, really. and want to hear from you on that, 1-877-tell-hln. jane's going to take your calls in bit. we want to hear from you on this story, your stories on this, your experiences, dating in the workplace. come on a potential to disaster both those in the relationship, for those watching it, the david
letterman sex scandal perfect example. here's dave. >> it did not occur to me last week when i was discussing having had sex with women who worked on this show that then what would happen is reporters and newspaper people and radio and tv would start pounding the staff and saying, well, what do you say? are you and this and that. it was very, very unpleasant and i would just like to set the record straight, no, i'm not having sex with these women. those episodes are in the past. so, my apologies to subjecting them to that vulnerability and being browbeaten and humiliated. it never occurred to me. >> never occurred you to, dave? come on. you're david letterman, you're the boss, you lay it out there, people are going to ask some questions. and that's a great case study of what can happen in the workplace. you have a relationship, people are going to talk, gossip, ask away. we'll debate this issue a little bit as we talk about whether or not to date someone in the work
place. joining us to talk about it columnist for the "philadelphia daily news" solomon jones who believes it's not worth it and joining us stephanie loze. she believes it can be managed. guys, i want to start with a facebook comment this lays it out there from shorty z. writing this i do not feel bosses as we hit on that front should date their subordinates that can cause so many problems issues ranging from charges of favoritism to sexual harassments. stephanie, on that front, i think shorty nails it. go shorty, what do you think? >> you can't argue with that. . the categories of dos or don'ts has to fall in the category of a don't but you can't really legislate the heart and i have to tell you that they convert to marriage at double the rate of regular office romances. >> are there rules, stephanie, do some companies just lay out a policy that a boss cannot data subordinate? >> yes.
yes, they do. but, at so much lower of a rate than you might expect. something like 70% of workplaces have no verbage in their employee handbook about office r romance at all. those that do tend to talk about specifically the boss-subordinate relationship and rules having to do with it but even though they don't ban it. something like 5 to 9% of offices ban that relationship. >> you made a point, you can't legislate the heart there but solomon, when you have that going on in the workplace, it can create a horrible work environment, can't it? >> it can create a horrible work environment and i think to take it even further, the man is always vulnerable. there's no such thing as free sex and as men, you know, we would like to think that there is but there's always a price to pay and especially in the workplace, in terms of your reputation, in terms of the other person's reputation, in terms of your ability to move up
in the workplace, in terms of your ability to get work done is just so many wrong things that -- that can happen out of it. and just so few right things that can happen out of it. >> yeah, national organization for women coming out basically saying david letterman created a hostile work environment. solomon, do you believe there needs to be some rules out there or kind of on stephanie's -- because she lays it out there pretty basic, you can't legislate the heart. >> no, you can't legislate the heart but, at the same time, every action -- for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. and there are consequences to everything that we do. i had a workplace romance a number of years ago and in my column i talked about being sort of the fox in the henhouse and that was many years ago. but, my daughter from that relationship is about to be 18. >> wow. >> so, you know, she is -- she is a gift certainly but there have been some challenges that have come from that. >> let's get a call on this,
guys. mike, your thoughts on this. >> caller: yes, i had a relationship with a young lady 15 years ago and i see her every day. she's the light of my life. we have two beautiful children. >> you guys got married. >> caller: oh, yes, sir. the workplace relationship and romance and everything else you have to be adults about it. you don't want other people in your business -- >> what was your work relationship, equal footing or -- >> caller: no, we were competitive, every day we were competitive. we still fight for the same job. >> okay. >> caller: yes, every day. >> still making it work. >> caller: right. >> mike, thanks for calling and telling your story. if you have people in the work place and somewhat on equal footing, i don't think people have the same issue with the boss-subordinate relationship. stephanie, do you agree? >> oh, yeah, but there are a lot of challenges in the peer-to-peer office relationship, too. i mean, a lot of people are uncomfortable, you know, grabbing for the same goodies in the office, competing against. >> ahh. >> but then there are other ones who meet in the office, get married, continue to work
together, especially in media and entertainment, the -- you know, the industries that we're talking about with letterman. and he married -- he's a serial office dater, isn't he? >> that, se, that he. >> i don't know if you remember, you know, he had a relationship with meryl marko, a very prominent writer on his show for at least a decade and has been dating regina lasko, his now wife for 23 years. we hope he was dating her off and on for 23 years, he wasn't actual lie cheating with her, but -- >> right. let's take a quick break. more calls lined up and more facebook comments. we want to hear you from, what do you think, is it worth it? will you find the love of your life but what if it goes bad you have a bad break-up and you have to look at the person every day. a little uncomfortable, huh? 1-877-tell-hln
what's this? >> a little gift. >> on behalf of desk area clump number one, we welcome you to our little island. love, jim and dwight. >> thank you so much. here we go. >> ohhh. >> a little island. us and dwight. >> that island is completely implausible. >> i love that. >> all right. workplace couple jim and pam that are working it out from the show "the office" i want to get a facebook comment in another workplace romance that worked
out. candy writes in this. i met the love of my life at work. she writes. we got married four years later. i'd say the workplace is a great place to meet somebody as long as you can both keep it low key and drama free. solomon, you've got to admit sometimes the person of your dreams is right there at work, right? >> and sometimes the person of your nightmares is right there at work. >> ha-ha. >> waiting. to pounce on your career. so, you know, i just think that the old adage it's best to separate business and pleasure is a cliche for a reason. cli clicles become cliches because they're true. >> caller: my mama a very wise woman and told me you never get your honey where you get your money. >> okay. >> you just got an "amen" from sol man there. but, i mean, come on, stephanie, i know, i guess i'm a hopeless
romantic at times. two people meet at work, they have a lot of common aities and spend a lot of time together, this might just be where your romeo or jewel let is, right. >> the workplace is the village of the 21st century, right? that's where our new neighborhood s. we spend all our time there. and think about it, there you are, you have chosen the same profession then you have chosen the same company and have chosen perhaps the same department in the same company in the same profession? that's a lot to have in common. and that proximity means that you get past first impressions. it is' not like you went to a bar and said to yourself i would never date somebody who would wear that jacket, you know, it's over. instead you get to know the content of their character over possibly months or years before anyone makes a move, which is maybe why they do result in marriage so often, a good 20 to 30% of them end up married. because, you think harder before you do it. >> here's the cautiousary tale of all the time we spend with
co-workers, a statistics from the vault, an employment website saying 48% of the people surveyed said they have known a married co-worker having an office affair. if you are married, put up some guardrails, right, stephanie, before you start getting too cozied up with somebody else. >> that really is the downside to the nice thing that can create some long-term couples who are very happy which is that you do have all this amount of in common, spending so much time together and sometimes people cross the lines. letterman seems to have crossed the line while he was dating regina lasko. we don't know because no one's come out with that particular detail yet. >> yeah. good point. okay. great conversation, guys, stephanie, solomon, we appreciate it. coming up my honor and privilege talking to my friend and colleague jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues" with quite a story to tell. she does it in a candid way. her new book "i want" we'll be talking about it. i want to show you jane, here she is hosting a & e's recovery
rally in new york. >> you're sober. we're sober. i'm sober. >> you're sober. we're sober. >> look at jane, that's passionate jane. yes, she is sober. she's going to tell us a little bit about her journey to sobriety. again, we'll be talking about her new book "i want" my journey from addiction and overcon shum shun to a simpler, honest life. an honest conversation with me coming up and she'll take your calls 1-877-tell-hln.
her new book called "i want, my journey from addiction and overconsumption" to a simpler and honest life. my privilege to welcome here to atlanta. good having you here. >> thanks for having me. >> love the book. i've talked about it throughout the hour as we've talked about talking to you. you don't leave any stone unturned. when you wrote this, did you ever think to myself, what have i done? >> yes. >> because you lay it out there. >> i did. in fact, i wrote it really quickly and, when i -- because i had a deadline. and i didn't have a lot of time to sensor myself and when i got it back i was like, ohhhh. and i'd look at another page and, wow, i said that? my feeling is, in all serness you are only as sick as your secrets. i don't really feel shame based about all. this my philosophy is why waste a good problem? i struggled with alcoholism, with sugar, food addiction. co-depends washgacholism and i tell folks at home struggling
home you if know somebody struggling with addiction this will help you because it puts you inside the mind of an addict, namely moi and show you how we think. the fact is addiction is nothing to do with will power. my will power, i've got a lot of will power, did not work. i was pushing a giant boulder up the hill and kept coming back and flattening me. and that's why lecturing and scolding and judging addicts just is not effective. because once that craving takes over, mike, the mind is no -- no challenge for it. the mind will align with the craving to justify any behavior because that's how strong an addictive craving is. >> didn't you have, again as you lay out your story, your life story in this, you have to get to the root of the addiction and, when you talk about you've got to go back, right, you've got to go back to some of the relationship that shaped you. the book is dedicated to your father, pierce. >> yes. >> alcoholic, himself, right? >> yes. yes. >> how was it to go back? a man i'm sure there is still
sadness he died young. >> of course. >> lung cancer. but to wrestle with that relationship and how it shaped you, how was that as you went through this? >> well, i dedicated this book to my dad because my dad was a very charming, handsome, hard-working, successful advertising executive but the one thing that really would have had him break through the other side would be a recovery program. he never got sober. now, he was what you call a high-functioning alcoholic but nevertheless an alcoholic. and so, when you are growing up with an alcoholic, they're never really there because their primary relationship is with the alcohol. so, you're always playing second fiddle. so, there is the sense of not really knowing my father. and that's what is so painful and so i'm kind of, when i stay sober, i stay sober myself but i also think of my dad and other people in my family who have suffered from this disease and say, you know, i'm doing it for them, too. my cousin billy, who died of this disease can't even have a cup of coffee today. so, i always remind myself of
that, he died of cirrhosis of the liver. >> wow. it struck me that right out of the gate, for my dad, pierce mitchell, you say that it hurts i never really knew you. because the addictions, whether it's alcohol or consumerism, we just want to buy everything, we'll talk about that, too but that masks who we really are, right because you are hiding behind that stuff. >> yeah. you are self-medicating. the reason you want to mood alter and alter your mood because there is something you want to get away from. so rainy day outside, i'll have a glass of wine, arguing with the boss, i'll have a glass of wine. instead of saying, wait, let me deal with this situation, deal with life on life's terms. what happens with the addict is we binge and feel remorse the next day and realize the sky didn't fall down and do it all over again but meanwhile our problems, the ones reare trying to escape in the first place are getting bigger and bigger, a lot are very deep rooted and stem from childhood traumas and all sorts of other things. >> when you talk about alcohol, i was struck were you introduced to it early and often, right?
>> yes. >> first drank, when, 9, 10 years old. >> i was probably about 9 or 10 years old. i don't blame my parents for this. this happens frequently and i heard it among many inrecoverin. it's much more common than people think. my parents would have big cocktail parties. i would walk around and see stems that weren't finished off and i would finish them off when nobody was looking. because i had a genetic predisposition, it was in my genes, i was one of those kids that went for that. the other kid who didn't have the predisposition didn't decide to go through that. i always liked the taste from day one. >> as i was reading the book, you drew me in, step by step with the stories. and after the break we'll talk about some of the characters in your life. right now let's zone in on that early alcohol that was introduced to you. it just builds on each other. you're introduced to the alcohol. you kind of like it. and you're struggling to fit in. so you use the alcohol to bring in friends. >> absolutely. i was kind of a book worm, loner kid, only child.
one day i realized, i've got to do something about this. i realized, bingo, i've got a secret weapon. and i did become popular as a result of drinking. a lot of people in recovery talk about how they used alcohol to make themselves fit in, to feel a part of. and that's great. at first it works. the problem is, it stops working. and what they say is, we chase the high. we chase that first high. that first moment where it all came together and we were there with our friends. >> care-free, the life of the party. >> exactly. drinking a harvey wal banger and smoking a tareyton. so that moment of euphoria that you feel, life is good, we chase that day after day, year after year, but it's never the same as the first time. >> you found out life really got good later. we'll talk about some of the characters. fascinating. call, by the way.
shocking claims in the case against casey anthony. a man says he saw the accused child killer, casey, with her daughter caylee, the last day the little girl was seen alive. he's not painting the picture of a loving mom here. george testifies about the smell of death in her car. hours later, his only daughter is arrested. how about this. sex in the work lace? it's in the spotlight after the david letterman saga. admitting to office relationships with former co-workers. what's going on in your office? is it ever okay to mix bis and pleasure? want to know wh you think. 1-877-tell-hln is the number.
e-mail us cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv. just start your message with the word prime. it's your chance to be heard. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is hour number two of "prime news." im mike galanos. we have stunning claims in the case against casey anthony. a new state witness surfacing. saying he saw casey and little caylee in the last day the cute little girl was seen alive. the defense is not going to like it. instead of a loving mom being portrayed here, he said she appeared to even be jealous of her only child. we'll deal with that. casey's father, george, testifying about the smell of death in her car. hours later, we're learning, she's charged with murder. as always, we take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us once again to talk about it, florida state prosecutor, pam boondi. and producer from the "nancy grace" show, natisha lance. let's start with the new state witness, jim thompson. who is he and what did he see?
>> that's right. james thompson owns a computer store that casey anthony went into with caylee back on june #th of '08. while they were in the store, he offers beanie babies to little kids who come in there. and at the end of thar visit, casey anthony was actually in there looking for a computer monitor. at the end of the visit there, he offered a beanie baby to caylee, and she seemed to be happy about it. however, her mother, casey anthony, rolled her eyes and then groaned. fast forward a week after that time, june 16th, the last time cry lee was seen. he sees them at a walmart. he said little caylee was walking behind casey anthony, she he to open the big door by himself. he said he had had enough trouble with bad mothers in the past. >> let's bring in pam bondi. when you hear this, once again, no surprise, casey anthony not portrayed in a good light. is it a huge development for the prosecution? do you see this being used in
the case? >> i think the problem, mike, is that this guy waited over a year to come forward. unless he's going to have a really good reason for that, i don't know if prosecutors are going to want to put him on the stand and open him up to cross-examination. now he does have some good evidence. what he saw, what he observed. but him speculating on casey being a bad mother, that would never come into evidence, nor would the prosecutors try to admit it. it's just not legally admissible. so we're going to have to wait and see. i think they have a strong circumstantial case. i think if this guy had come forward a lot earlier, it would have been more important. but prosecutors had to reveal it and turn it over to the defense. >> let's clear that up. natisha, why did this guy come porward and why he waited? >> just a few months ago, july 22nd, '09 is when he came forward. his sworn statement is very detailed, to the point he remembered exactly what casey anthony had on, both occasions. he said the second time he
remembered her distinctly because she didn't fit the profile of the men who usually come into his computer store. she stood out because she was a pretty girl. >> pj in massachusetts, go ahead. >> caller: i love your show. >> thanks. >> caller: i just was wondering, the mother, cindy, being a nurse, knows the smell of death. the father being in the law enforcement knows the smell of death. and they both stated it right away. and now they've back tracked. can they be prosecuted for -- or impeached? >> that's a good question there. let's bring in pam bondi on that front. pam, we know both, when the 911 call from cindy anthony, smells like a dead body in the car. we heard george anthony talking very candidly and openly with investigators early on saying it could be a human decomposition. later on it was rotting pizza from both of them. they changed their tune.
it's not impeachable, is it? it's just a changed story, right? >> i don't think they can prosecute them for it. it's not perjury at this point. because they're just backtracking. but i think that prosecutors can absolutely impeach them with it. that means they can question them and say, why did you change your story? why did you come off your story later? >> okay. what does that do to the case? >> i -- >> is that a key thing that both of them said to pj's point, cindy's a nurse, george in law enforcement. >> the jury's going to believe what they heard initially on that 911 call. that trunk smells like a dead body. she was panicked when she made that 911 call. that was right at the time it happened. and that's the most credible. now down the road, of course, she's trying to protect her daughter. that's what she's going to say. we also have law enforcement to corroborate the smell of the dead body in the trunk of the car. >> let's listen, george anthony. let's let everybody listen.
this is george anthony talking with investigators. again, he's very candid at this point, talking about whether or not he smelled a dead body. >> natisha, let's talk about this since we've gone to this point about george, and the caller mentioned cindy as well. what do we know about the back of that car? what is the latest? possibly the smell of human decomposition? what other evidence is found in casey's car? >> what we know about the back of the car is there were cadaver dogs who hit on that car twice, mike. we also know there was a hair that was in that car that was consistent with the decomposing hair. that would be consistent with a dead body in the trunk of the car. we also have the air samples from the trunk of the car that had chloroform, also air that
indicated that there was a decomposing body in the trunk of the car. and there was also most recently that was released, there was some type of stain that was in the trunk of the car that resembled what may have been a youk child in the fetal position. >> so sad to hear that, and we see the pictures of cute little caylee. let's take a quick break. we've got calls, facebook comments coming up. we'll talk about another development. judge rules george anthony's grand jury testimony can be released to prosecutors. we'll talk about that. there's george and cindy, in court. more coming up. stay with us.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln, continuing our conversation concerning casey anthony. we have a new state witness coming for ward, jim thompson, saying he saw casey and caylee interacting, and it wasn't pretty. talking about whether or not casey was a good mom, saying it seemed caylee was in the way. i want to get to facebook comments. david writing this on facebook. that video of her in jail saying, what about me? my life is ruined. says it all. she's more concerned about herself than her daughter. then we also know that casey got herself a tattoo after caylee goes missing. i believe it said labellea vita, i believe it means a beautiful life. unconscionable, you're going to get a tattoo saying that after your little girl goes missing? let's bring back pam bondi. casey's behavior, how much does
that go to a possible conviction? >> oh, mike, i think the jury is going to give that so much weight. because what decent mother in the world would behave the way that she behaved. and it's not just one time. of course, we see it all starting out with this, photographs at the bar, when she was behaving that way. it has just continued on and on and on. like your caller's point, at the jail, everything is about her. i mean, what a sociopath. everything is about casey anthony. nothing about caylee. nothing worried about her little daughter missing. it's all about her. that's going to be the theme throughout that trial. >> you know, we get our facebook comments. these are potential jurors here. martina writing, loving mom? if she was so loving why was she always running off with her friends and different men instead of taking care of cry lee? we've laid that out there. again, the tattoo, going out partying, this after little caylee goes missing. let's hit on the other topic. judge ruling george anthony's
grand jury testimony can be released to prosecutors. natisha, what do we know? the grand jury testimony has been sealed. because what happened after he testified? she gets arrested, right? >> right. that's right. just a few hours after she testified, and we all remember george anthony on the steps of the courthouse before he even went in to make that grand jury testimony, crying, saying how much he cared about his family. also asking the public to pray for casey at 11:00 in the morning. we don't know what he said during that testimony. because like you said, it is sealed. however, a couple of hours later, casey anthony was indicted for murder charges. now the prosecution is asking for the transcript of that testimony. because there have been apparently some inconsistencyings in another sworn statement is george anthony has given. they're probably referring to the deposition that he gave in the civil case regarding zenaida fernandez gonzalez. >> this is from deanna writing
this. sick, how can one be jealous of their own child. why kill her when her grand parents would have taken her. again, pam, when we talk about this, people, in the court of public opinion, casey anthony not doing well. when you look at -- hear this, and then we're talking about george anthony's grand jury testimony and what could have led to the arrest, what are you looking for through that as a prosecutor? do you think it has to do with decomposition at all and those inconsistencies or to what natisha's talking about and the civil case with zenaida gonzalez? >> i think it could be what natisha said. john morgan is a great attorney and i think he went after both of those parents in the civil case. and mike, a grand jury, when i present murder cases to grand juries, it's sacred ground. everything in there is confidential. i can't even tell you when the grand jury meets, nor can i walk ot of that room and repeat anything that happened in that room. so for those prosecutors to go
to the judge, and ask to unseal grand jury testimony, they must feel that it's very important, and that they need it, and that he gave probably some critical inconsistent statements. >> got you. before we go, natisha, we have some more documents coming out later today? tomorrow? is that right? is that going to be big news? what do we think? >> not sure exactly what they're going to consist of. yeah, the documents just keep coming, mike. >> well put. they certainly do. all right. ladies, as always, we appreciate it. pam, natisha. coming up, lisa nowak, the astronaut accused of attacking her rival. now the prosecution they're saying withheld evidence. they want the case thrown out. we'll break this down for you, even look at surveillance video of nowak hanging around with a hat and wig as she's waiting for colleen shipman. a little bit later, i'll welcome my colleague, jane velez-mitchell. she knows about addiction. she has lived it. she's going to talk about it with us candidly in her new book
who could forgive this story. astronaut, lisa nowak, allegedly confronts her romantic rival. that case back in a florida courtroom today, and her attorneys trying to get the case thrown out of court. let's bring in our "prime news" correspondent richelle carey. >> first of all, mike, the judge refused to throw the case out. so that's not happening. now, the whole thing happened, the incident in 2007. police say that an astronaut, lisa nowak, drove from houston to orlando -- that's a long trip -- she made this trip nonstop. they said she did it to confront and attack her romantic rival, fellow astronaut colleen shipman. shipman was dating an astronaut that was once involved with lisa
nowak. they say nowak dressed in a disguise and sprayed her with pepper spray. the prosecution they say withheld evidence. that showed shipman was never injured by any pepper spraf. again, the court refused to throw out the charges. they will allow the defense to depose colleen shipman on this new evidence. so that's where we are right now. but clearly, there's more to talk about now. >> definitely. thanks for getting us up to speed, richelle. what happens next, we'll clear this up for you. jill, a reporter in orlando. also back with us, florida state prosecutor, pam bondi. first off, pam, let me go to you about the judge's ruling here. did you think there was a possibility this was going to be thrown out based on what you heard? >> no, mike. good solid ruling. she doesn't have to be injured by the pepper spray. as long as it was used, it hit her, that's a battery.
>> let's talk about that. let's bring in joe. clear that up here. was pepper spray used or not? what are they arguing about here concerning the pepper spray? >> initially when colleen spoke with the first responders, at the airport, the firefighters that came to the scene at the parking lot where the attack took place, she told them that she was sitting in her car. she had the window rolled up. and then when nowak showed up, knocked on the window, got her to kind of bring the window down just a little bit and then fired the pepper spray, they told those first responders at the scene that she didn't need their medical help, and that no pepper spray got on her and she's fine. later she's talking to the orlando police department to a different detective who wasn't there at the time that statement, and the story changed just a bit. in his report that she was indeed hit with the pepper spray. >> does that even matter? if you can prove, and i would think it would be pretty easy to prove whether or not there's pepper spray in the car. if lisa nowak squirts pepper
spray in the car, that's an offensive act, right? >> absolutely. burglary of the conveyance with assault or battery. the pepper spray was the weapon that was used. she didn't even have to be injured by it. that initial statement was taken so early on. imagine the trauma that that victim was experiencing at that point. so she probably didn't know what happened, she was so shell-shocked. they're going to be able to establish, if they're able to establish the pepper spray was used, which it sounds like they were, that's not an issue. she's facing a crime punishable by life in prison. >> joe, what was lisa nowak's plan, or at least what has been the plan that's been forwarded out there? because she had more than pepper spray with her. >> yes, she had ropes in the car, and other things. that the police all found when they searched her vehicle after all this came out. all that evidence, of course, was thrown out because the judge felt that the police just acted
improperly when they searched her car. so none of that will be mentioned in the trial at all. >> okay. how much does that hurt the case, pam? because you had, as joe mentions, we heard the pepper spray, ropes, stun gun, knife. we saw the wig in the surveillance video, a hammer. you're not thinking good intentions with all those. we'll say that. without that off the table, what do you do with the case? >> again, you still have the victim's testimony in the case. but that greatly hurts the prosecution's case. because what that shows is how premeditated this crime was. i mean, this is a scary woman who did this. she drove all this way to attack this woman. this is a horrible, horrible crime. and yeah, that's serious evidence that the prosecution is losing. >> guys, let's take a quick break. when we come back, we'll take your calls on this, your thoughts, your theories on astronaut lisa nowak and the case against her. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. we're also going to get an update, where's everybody now? the love triangle. =
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. i have a special guest coming up in a little bit. my colleague and friend, jane velez-mitchell is going to join me. her addictions. alcoholism. how she beat it. and her story, how she went deep into some dark wounds in her life. how she went there, and comes out better for it. an inspiration, really. i want to hear from you on that, 1-877-tell-hln. jane's going to take your calls in a little bit. we want to hear from you on this story. your experiences, dating in the workplace. potential for disaster, both those in the relationship, for those watching it.
the david letterman sex scandal, perfect example. here's dave. it did not occur to me last week when i was discussing having had sex with women who worked on this show that then what would happen is reporters and newspaper people and radio and tv would start hounding the staff and saying, well, what do you say? are you, and this and that. it was very, very unpleasant. i would just like to set the record straight, no, i'm not having sex with these women. those episodes are in the past. so my apologies to subjecting them to that vulnerability and being browbeaten and humiliated. it never occurred to me. >> never occurred to you, dave? come on. you're david letterman. you're the boss. you lay it out there. people are going to ask some questions. and that's a great case study of what can happen in the workplace. you have a relationship, people are going to talk, gossip, ask away. we're going to debate this issue a little bit as we talk about whether or not not to date
someone in the workplace. joining us to talk about it, columnist for the philadelphia daily news, solomon jones. he believes it's not worth it. also joining us, steffi, co-author of the handbook for finding and managing romance on the job. she believes it can be managed. guys, i want to start with the facebook comment. this is from shorty z, writing this, i do not feel bosses, as we hit it on that front, bosses should date their subordinates. that can cause so many problems, issues ranging from charges of favoritism to sexual harassment. stephanie, on that front, i think shorty nails it. go shorty. what do you think? >> you can't argue with that. in the category of dos and don'ts for office romance dating your boss or subordinate has to fall in the category of don't. but you can't legislate the heart. they convert to marriage at double the rate of regular office romances. >> are there rules, stephanie? do some companies just lay out a policy that a boss cannot date a sub ortd nat?
>> yes, they do. but at so much lower of a rate than you might expect. something like 70% of workplaces have no verbiage in their handbook about office romance at all. those that do, the other 30% tend to talk about specifically the boss/subordinate relationship and any rules having to do with it. even then, they don't ban it. something like 5% to 9% of offices ban that relationship. >> you made a point. you can't legislate the heart there. but solomon, when you have that going on in the workplace, it can create a horrible work environment, can't it? >> it can create a horrible work environment. and i think to take it even further, the man is always vulnerable. there's no such thing as free sex. and as men, we would like to think that there is. there's always a price to pay. especially in the workplace. in terms of your reputation, in terms of the other person's reputation, in terms of your
ability to move up in the workplace, in terms of your ability to get work done. it's just so many wrong things that can happen out of it. and just so few right things that can happen out of it. >> yeah. national organization for women coming out basically saying dath lerdman has created a hostile work environment. solomon, do you believe there should be rules out there? stephanie lays it out there pet i basic, you can't legislate the heart. >> no, but at the same time, every action, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. and there are consequences to everything that we do. i had a workplace romance, a number of years ago, and my column i talked about being sort of the fox in the henhouse. and that was many years ago. but my daughter from that relationship is about to be 18. >> wow. >> so, you know, she is a gift certainly. but there have been some challenges that have come with that. >> got you. let's get a call in. mike's with us in missouri.
mike, your thoughts on this? >> caller: yes. i had a relationship with a young lady 15 years ago, and i see her every day. she's the light of my life. we have two beautiful children. >> you guys got married? >> caller: yes, sir. the workplace relationship, and romance and everything else, you have to be adults about it. >> what was your work relationship? were you guys on equal footing? was someone the boss or -- >> caller: no, we were competitive. every day we were competitive. we still fight for the same job. yeah, every day. >> still making it work. >> caller: yeah. >> i think that's where -- mike, thanks for sharing your story there. i think that's where people say, if you've got people in the workplace and this they're somewhat on equal footing, i don't think people don't have the issue with the boss/subordinate thing. >> yeah, about there are challenges in the peer-to-peer relationships. people are uncomfortable competing against each others in the office. there are others who meet in the office, get married, continue to
work together, especially in media and entertainment. the, you know, the industries that we're talking about with letterman. and he married -- he's a serial office dater, isn't he. >> that he is. i don't know if you remember, you know, he had a relationship with merrill marco, who was a prominent writer on his show for at least a decade. and then he's been dating reginna lasko, his now wife, for 13 years. we hope he was dating her on and off for 23 years, wasn't actually cheating with her. >> we're going to continue this conversation with you. i want to hear from you. have you had the office romance? do you think it's worth it? did you have the bad break-up and you had to still look at them every day and that was uncomfortable? call in with your stories.
welcome back. we're continuing our conversation, dating in the workplace. obviously the david letterman saga brought it front and center. he admitted he had sex with co-workers in the past. the question to you is, is it okay for a boss to date a subordinate? what about co-workers on the same level? i mean, you may find that person of your dreams at work, but you also may find, as one of our guests said, the last hour, might find a nightmare as well. we want to hear from you, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. we have fisbook comments as well. emily writing this. i think it's more trouble than it's worth. it creates weird tension when
it's over and sometimes jealousy in others. you're going to have a problem there, if you've got somebody who thinks they're the office jig i lo. i think what we're finding out here is you guys call and e-mail and facebook us that, you know, it just creates a weird dynamic. and more often than not, it's not going to end well. you're going to get some -- as emily said, weird tension there. let's get a call in. alva from california, what do you think here? >> caller: you know, i agree with emily. it can cause a lot of problems in the office. and people have a tendency to blame the boss. but sometimes it's just the subordinates who come on to them, for whatever reason. maybe they're trying to get ahead in the office or want special favors. it's a terrible idea. have you seen it play out, alva? >> caller: i certainly have. and even to the point that i've seen women come on to guys so strong, that it's evident to everyone in the office that she's trying to have an affair
with that person. >> and get ahead and then you've really got some issues there. >> caller: right. >> let's get a facebook comment in. jennifer writing this. most places have a code against boss and their employees, them getting together. we talked about that before the break. if you could take the consequences, if you get caught, fine. so realize out there, and that's a great point, there's a risk. if you just can't help yourself and you can't legislate your heart, just be ready if things go south on you. we have a call, adrian. what do we have? russ, what do you think of this? >> caller: to me it is -- i mean, it's all about who's in the relationship. i've been in a couple where one, i was a supervisor. and another they were the supervisor. not at the same time, though. >> how did it end up? was it ugly, or amicable or what? >> caller: it ran its course. we had a good times. it was just never meant to be.
>> it didn't cause any real friction in the office? it just happened and that was that? >> caller: no. it is a little struggle. because you've got to know where the door to the bedroom and living room end and where the door to the office begins. >> got you. russ, thanks for sharing. let's get another facebook comment in. candace writes this on facebook. i think workplace romances never work out. you actually see each other all the time and you get sick of them. and that's the issue here. if you have the nasty break-up, there's going to be -- it's going to get ugly. everyone's going to watch as this unfolds. one other point that we made in the last hour, i want to make it again, and this is a statistic from the vault. that's an employment website writing this. that 48% of people surveyed have known a married co-worker having an office affair. so married folks out there, put up some guardrails. that's what this statistic is telling us. 48% is a big number.
you spend a lot of time with people. you make connections. watch it, word to the wise there, do a better job of protecting your marriage. we need to do that both in and out of the work place. as always, good talking to you guys. facebook, e-mails, phone calls. great conversation there as the david letterman saga continues to play out. coming you on the show, talking to my friend and colleague jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues" coming your way at the top of the hour. she has quite a story to tell in her new book called "i want." it's a story of addiction, how she overcame it. stay with us.
i am about the stories we cover. one thing i love about her, whatever she does she's going to go full tilt. she has certainly done that in her new book, called "i want," my journey from addiction and ore consumption to a simple, honest life. joining me now, good to have you here. >> thanks for having me. >> i've talked about it throughout the hour, as we've talked about talking to you. when you wrote this, did you ever think to myself, what have i done? because you lay it out there. >> yes, i did. in fact, i wrote it very quickly. because i had a deadline. and i didn't have a lot of time to censure myself. and when i got it back, and i went, whoa, wow, i said that? my feeling is, in all seriousness, you're only as sick as your secrets. i don't feel shame based about all this. my philosophy is, i struggled with alcoholism, with sugar, food addiction, co-dependency,
workaholism. if you're struggling with an addicti addiction, whether it's alcoholism, food, gambling or whatever, this book will help you. it puts you inside the mind of an addict, namely, moi, and shows you how to think. addiction has nothing to do with will power. my will power, and i got a lot of will power, did not work. i was pushing a giant boulder up the hill and it kept coming back and flattening me. and that's why lecturing, and scolding, and judging, addicts just is not effective. because once that craving takes over, mike, the mind is no -- no challenge for it. the mind will align with the craving to justify any behavior. because that's how strong an addictive craving is. >> as you lay out your story, your life story in this, you have to get to the root of the addiction. when you talk about, you've got to go back to some of the relationships that shaped you. the book is dedicated to your
father, pierce. >> yes. >> alcoholic himself, right? >> yes. >> how was it to go back? here's a man who i'm sure there's still sadness that he died young, lung cancer. but to wrestle with that relationship and how it shaped you. how was that as you went through this? >> i dedicated this book to my dad because he was a very charming, handsome, successful executive. one thing that would have him break through the other side would be a recovery program. he never got sober. he is what you called a high functioning alcoholic. nevertheless, an alcoholic. so when you're growing up with an alcoholic, they're never really there. because their primary relationship is with the alcohol. so you're always playing second fiddle. so there is this sense of not really knowing my father. and that's what is so painful. and so i'm kind of -- when i stay sober, i stay sober myself but i also think of my dad and other people in my family who suffered from this disease.
and say, i'm doing it for them, too. my cousin billy died of this disease can't even have a cup of coffee today. he died of cirrhosis of the liver. >> it struck me, right out of the gate, from my dad, pierce mitchell, and you say that, it hurts. i never really knew you. the addictions, whether it's alcohol or consumerism, we just want to buy everything, we'll talk about that, too, but that masks who we really are, right? >> of course. >> you're hiding behind that. >> you're self-medicating. the reason why you want to mood alter, and alter your mood is because there's something you want to get away from. rainy day outside. i'll have a glass of chardonnay. argue with the boss, i'll have a glass of chardonnay. instead of saying let me deal with this situation, deal with life on life's terms. our problems, the ones we're trying to escape in the first place are getting bigger and bigger. a lot of the problems are deep rooted. they stem from childhood
traumas, and all sorts of other things. >> right. when you talk about alcohol, i was struck, you were introduced to it early and often, right? first drink, when? you were 9, 10 years old? >> probably about i don't blame my parents for this. this happens quite frequently. i have heard it among people who are recovering. it's much more common than people think. my parents used to have really big cocktail parties. i would walk around, i would see there were stems that were not finished off and i would just finish them off when nobody was looking. because i had a genetic predisposition, it was in my genes, i was one of those kids who went for that. another kid who didn't have the genetic predisposition might not decide to do that. i always liked the taste from day one. >> as i was reading the book, you drew me in step by step with the stories. after the break, we'll talk about some of the characters in your life. right now let's zone in on that early alcohol that was introduced to you because it just builds on each other. you're introduced to the alcohol, you don't -- i mean, you kind of like it, and you're struggling to fit in, so then you use the alcohol to bring in
friends. right? >> absolutely. i was kind of a bookworm, loner kid, only child, and one day i realized i got to do something about this and then i realized bingo, i've got a secret weapon. and i did become popular as a result of drinking and a lot of people in recovery talk about how they used alcohol to make themselves fit in, to feel a part of, and that's great. at first it works. it's only the problem is it stops working. and what they say is we chase the high. we chase that first high, that first moment where it all came together and we were there with our friends and i remember -- >> carefree, you're the life of the party. >> exactly. drinking a harvey wallbanger and listening to "maggie may" and it was all working for me. that moment of euphoria when you feel life's good, we chase that day after day, year after year, but it's never the same as that first time. >> right. you found out life really got good later. we'll talk about that and some of the characters. it's worth it to buy the book to
tonight, a bombshell. straight from the fbi, flips the script in the anna nicole smith drama and this time, she's the one being investigated for murder. smith was interrogated by the fbi on suspicion of allegedly plotting to kill her stepson rival. that while the two were battling for her dead oil tycoon husband's half a billion dollar estate. anna nicole died two years ago and can't defend herself, but was this kooky playmate really capable of murder? and massive developments in the haleigh cummings case turned divorce saga. the little girl's dad now says he was disturbed by his new wife and her ever-changing story
about haleigh's disappearance. ron still won't admit that's why he's divorcing misty but what does this mean for the investigation? also, jealousy, envy, sex and blackmail. a source now tells "the new york post" that david letterman's sex-laced extortion case was fueled by revenge. this unnamed source says the cbs news producer wanted to hurt letterman because he was having sex with his live-in girlfriend. meanwhile, the mistress' grandma is talking and you're not going to believe what she's saying. plus, heart-wrenching new details in the nypd drunk driving case. we're going to talk to the father of the woman who was mowed down by an nypd officer while that cop was allegedly boozed up behind the wheel. why did it take more than seven hours to give that officer a sobriety test? is the nypd trying to cover up a crime? we're looking for answers on a father's quest for justice. "issues" starts now. tonight, head-spinning new
charges against the late anna nicole smith. that's right, long before her tragic death, was the former playboy playmate plotting to murder for millions? top secret fbi files just released allege anna nicole smith was a suspect in a scandalous murder for hire scheme. the target? her stepson and nemesis, e. pierce marshall. shocking claims from anna's ex-boyfriend. he tells "inside edition" it's true. >> she'd get jacked up on pain pills and then this would come out. we'd be laying sleeping together and then she'd start saying mark, you got to kill him, i'm anna nicole, you got to take care of this for me. i'll do anything for you. we'll be set. >> i wonder if that guy's got credibility problems. i seem to remember something about hattan. anna nicole was a 26-year-old stripper when she married ancient, and i mean ancient, oil
tycoon j. howard marshall. when he died, his son stood between anna and a half a billion dollar fortune. the two viciously battled for those big bucks in court. anna nicole vehemently defended her love for her 89-year-old hubby. >> i want to tell my husband, jay howard marshall, that i love him very much and i wish he was here and i miss you. >> would anna nicole smith be willing to kill for $500 million? that is the question tonight. fbi documents reportedly show mysterious and bizarre items, what a shock. a revolver, a huge knife and black and orange dr. seuss cat in the hat style cap. hm. they were taken from the model's home as part of the fbi investigation. "the new york post" reports the u.s. attorney's office says the case was finally dropped. there was insufficient evidence to prove anna nicole was behind a murder for hire plot to kill
pierce marshall. both anna nicole and e. pierce marshall have since died but the war for that half a billion dollar fortune, it rages on. it could make this little child, anna's daughter, danni lynn, there she is on the cover of "us" magazine, half a billionaire one day. straight out to my fabulous expert panel. former fbi expert in charge, don clark. legal analyst for "the insider" darren kavinoky. cnn legal analyst lisa bloom. and paul boyd, correspondent from "inside edition." paul, we have both covered so many crazy and disturbing anna nicole stories. could this be the craziest of all? >> it was a shocking revelation. i mean, who would have thought anna nicole smith investigated by the fbi for allegedly plotting to murder somebody. it kind of came out of left field, but here we have the fbi documents and it's stunning. >> yeah. and you know, after anna nicole died from a drug overdose, there
was that nasty custody battle that ensued and it was all really about money at the end of the day. the big mystery, who was the real dad of anna nicole's brand new baby, dannilynn? men came out of the woodwork claiming to be the father. you remember howard k stern, who could forget him, even zsa zsa gabor's kooky husband, we certainly could never forget him. we all know at the end of the day, this man you're looking at right there, not larry king but the other one, the one holding the baby, larry birkhead, turned out to be the real papa. let's listen to him. >> i hate to be the one that told you this, but i told you so. there's certain things that i can't talk about, but this is one that i'm happy to talk about, and my baby's going to be coming home pretty soon. >> i love that guy. handsome and i think he is a good daddy. lisa, the battle over j. howard
marshall's fortune, $500 billion, has been a very complex saga that went all the way up to the supreme court. i'm almost afraid to ask, where does it stand now? >> well, the battle still rages on, jane. that's why this whole murder for hire plot really doesn't make any sense to me. because eliminating j. howard marshall jr. from the picture does not end the court battle. so i don't think anna nicole was capable of murdering anyone and by the way, he died of natural causes. he was not ultimately murdered. if i may take a page from that cat in the hat piece of evidence, she would not, could not, with a knife, she would not, could not take his life. i just don't believe it. i'm not buying this story. >> i love that. >> lisa, you mean you don't -- >> come on, let's give lisa a hand. that was very good. >> thank you. >> you don't think that of all the things that anna nicole might be remembered for, that criminal mastermind is going to be one of them? >> no. it's definitely not going to be one of them. i tell you what, i agree with lisa, too. i just think this is ridiculous and look at the person who's bringing this about.
mark hattan? come on, this guy was a prisoner. that's what prisoners do. they try to figure out some way to get out. they went to the fbi and used up a lot of time there. >> you know, i think mark hattan's nickname was hollywood which should be a tip-off. i just think we should all be on notice that any time you name or nickname somebody hollywood, that they're destined for trouble. it usually doesn't end well when somebody's got that as their moniker. >> they were not friends, attan and anna nicole were involved in a lot of conflict that went into the courtroom. so his motives are suspect. now, i have to say this, paul boyd, this was not some joke, however. we're laughing about it because it's so bizarre, but the fbi actually interviewed smith in the year 2000 about this alleged scheme, and said she began crying, and they went even further. they recorded telephone calls with anna nicole smith and they also spoke to pierce marshall, who said that she was rarely
with his old father after they got married and routinely asked him for $50,000 to $60,000 two times a week. so you got a motive there and the motive is greed. >> the fbi took this very, very seriously. at least two special agents went to interview anna nicole, who knows how many others were involved chasing down other leads at anna nicole's house. they actually confiscated .350 magnum revolver, 3 1/2 inch stainless steel knife, this crazy hat that you described in the open. i mean, the fbi were looking into this very seriously. at the end of the day, though, it is important to know that for all intents and purposes, anna nicole smith was cleared of any allegations, any wrongdoing and as your other guests are pointing out, mark hattan was in jail for making criminal threats against anna nicole -- >> i covered that case. i covered that case. >> jane, let's remember also the history that anna nicole was involved for three years with the old guy, j. howard marshall, and he begged her to marry him.
week after week for three years. she wouldn't do it until she had her own career, until she was a national guess model. >> i think you're giving her the benefit of the doubt. i think that's kind-hearted of you, but that brings us to tonight's big issue. greed. the deadly sin. anna nicole's life was full of greed and overconsumption. she was constantly chasing her fairy tale ending. listen to this. >> to have all this fame and fortune, it's just -- it is a cinderella story to me. >> well, guess what, we got to at least look at her. she's always, boy, she was a gorgeous woman and yet she did everything in a super-sized fashion. she lived perhaps too large, never had enough money, fame, drugs or alcohol. so you know, was she trying to fill some kind of void? i certainly think so. let's hear what our viewers have to say. elizabeth, texas, your question or thought, ma'am? >> caller: actually, i wouldn't be surprised if she was involved
in something like that. drugs was the main line in her life with money and power and she had all of her little henchmen around her until the deck of cards started falling. >> i agree. you know, lisa, i do think when somebody is doing drugs, they're capable of anything, even a crazy plot like this, even if it was something that sort of fell by the wayside. >> i just think this is terribly unfair. she's innocent until proven guilty and she was never even charged by the fbi. there never was a murder. and now she's deceased and can't defend herself. so i really think any kind of piling on on this poor woman at this point, for something that never even happened, is awfully unfair to her. >> i think so -- >> the point you made that i think is very, very well taken is that anna nicole led a life that was big, and some would characterize it as being excess. and what we see oftentimes is people who are trying to solve an inside problem with outside stuff. >> that came back to bite her. got to leave it right there.
we'll have more anna nicole drama right after the break. we're also taking your calls. what do you think about this alleged plot? 1-877-jvm-says. the fbi did investigate. coming up, is ron cummings divorcing the very last person who saw has daughter, haleigh, alive because he does not believe her story? but first, did anna nicole smith seem like she was capable of murder? more mind-boggling developments right after the break.
j. howard loved her and he provided for her with that about $8 million that he gave her but he was clear that that's all he intended to give her and so the marshall family has been trying to honor j. howard's wishes. >> that was the attorney for the family of the late billionaire, j. howard marshall. anna nicole waged a bitter battle against marshall's son, pierce, who ultimately died, seems like everybody involved in this is dead, but could she have been capable of plotting his murder?
why is this coming out now, don clark? the fbi investigated smith back in 2000-2001. apparently this is being released under the freedom of information act. how does that work? >> well, you know, the fbi has a certain time limit that it can keep documents on the shelf there before it's authorized to give it out but with the freedom of information act, people put them in every day and i would bet anything, i haven't seen the document, a lot of the information there was redacted, but certainly it was enough there for them to make a story out of it and for us to be talking about it. but i tell you another thing, too, jane, is that if they spent the time that they did investigating this case, then i'm convinced that anna nicole had no plot to do anything to pierce marshall. >> all right. >> given that they found that knife and that gun -- >> don't forget the dr. seuss hat. >> i'm convinced that it's colonel mustard with the lead pipe in the library. >> it wasn't anna. >> anna nicole smith told investigators during that
interview that why would i do this, he's the trustee. if i killed him, the trust still exists and i still would have a challenge to get at the money. so that's a big hole in the whole plot as well. >> okay. by the way, she claims that her hubby promised her verbally that she would get the half a billion and of course, the oil tycoon's son said no, in the will she's not mentioned. so that's the basis of the conflict there. lisa, new york, your question or thought? >> caller: yes, i'm just calling to say that, you know, anna nicole smith is dead and gone and i don't think she had a bad bone in her body. just people need to let her rest in peace with her son. it's bad enough her daughter's without her. and i just feel like everybody should just leave her alone. i don't think she would ever try to plot to kill anybody. >> well, you know, you raise a good point, because obviously, there is still -- there's legal action regarding her death. at one time it was thought that anna nicole's own death might have been cold-blooded murder, an attempt to get access to her
impending fortune. her death has since been ruled an accidental overdose. now two of her doctors and her lawyer and companion, howard k. stern, are facing charges that the drugs they helped get her, killed her. howard k. stern has pleaded not guilty. he testified it was grief that killed anna nicole smith. >> from the day that daniel died, anna honestly was never the same. i mean, i would say that physically, she died last week, but in a lot of ways, emotionally, she died when daniel died. >> tmz is reporting howard k. stern may soon face additional charges. that's may. we don't have any independent confirmation of that. he's already facing four counts of obtaining fraudulent prescriptions, allegedly, and one count of allegedly prescribing, administering substances to an addict. darren kavinoky, i thought the tragedy of anna nicole smith more than anything else is the
tragedy of drug addiction. >> i agree with you wholeheartedly. unfortunately, just like money can be an incentive for a lot of criminal acts, including murder, there were a lot of people in anna nicole's life who profited by her remaining sick. and let's face it, one of the reasons that america tuned in week after week after week to the anna nicole show was because she was a train wreck. nobody was interested in seeing her turn around and get her life back on track. >> right. she's not entertaining that way. >> exactly. >> can i say something in anna nicole's defense, though? because she never got a dime from j. howard marshall's estate. during the marriage, yes, he lavished her with gifts. after he died, a lot of people don't realize this, every dollar that she made, she earned and she earned it legitimately by modeling, by doing the reality show, by becoming a trimspa spokesperson. she was a single mother who supported her son, daniel, and she was surrounded by sycophants who didn't help her with her
drug adistribution. i think she deserves credit for what she did. >> when somebody has a severe drug addiction problem, it opens a pandora's box and we are capable of believing anything about them. once you see her in that clown face, slurring her words -- >> that was horrible. i agree. >> we agree on that. thank you. fantastic panel. we'll have to leave it right there. coming up, head-spinning new details in the david letterman extortion case. and then, why does ron cummings want a divorce from his new wife, misty? is a lack of trust the issue? his child vanished on this woman's watch. in my new book, "i want" i talk about how i fought an addiction to alcohol but finally got sober 14 1/2 years ago. i turned my life around. i sat down recently with dr. phil to talk about my new book, "i want." that interview airs tomorrow, thursday, on his show. here's a peek at "dr. phil." >> i think this is a real chronicle of courage and candor. i thought this took a lot of
guts to write this honestly. >> well, they say you're only as sick as your secrets. and i decided it was time to get honest. >> yeah. and why? what was the thing that pushed you over the line? >> i wrote a book called "secrets can be murder" and i started to realize how fatal and how toxic skreets are and then i started to look at myself and i realized, i had a lot of secrets and that maybe by telling my story, i might be of service to somebody out there grappling with the same problems. i'm dealing with so many of the same issues that people across america are dealing with, alcoholism, consuming addiction, all of these different addictive behaviors that are really destroying our lives and i just decided i'm going to tell my story and maybe somebody out there can learn something so they don't have to go through some of the hell i went through. >> now i want to hear your success story. what addiction have you overcome and how did you do it? send your e-mail or i-report to me at cnn.com/jane.
in tonight's spotlight, are the walls closing in on misty croslin, the father of missing child haleigh cummings is divorced misty. the last person to see his little girl before she vanished. is it because he is suspicious as so many of us are of her ever-changing stories? ron addressed that very issue last night on "nancy grace." >> you told me that changes, even subtle, small changes in misty croslin's story about the night haleigh went missing bothered you. what changes -- >> yes, ma'am. >> -- if any do you recall?
>> i can't really recall the exact changes and they're real small. it's not like -- she pretty much tells me the same thing each time i ask her about it. >> i have so much compassion for that man but why is ron being so vague about whether or not he thinks misty is lying? is it because he kind of has to play along with her if he ever wants to get the truth about what happened to haleigh that night? let me pose that question to my guests. we're delighted to have brandon beardsley, ron cummings' attorney. thanks for joining us. why is ron, he appears to be dancing around the whole issue of whether or not he believes misty's story. why? >> you got to understand that they're married and he truly loves her. now, is it a reason, he has never stated and has never came out of his mouth that he does not believe her, he does not trust her, and that the rumors or speculations that she's not telling the truth or telling everything is a reason. but you know, you're an educated woman. i'm an educated person. people that have common sense
know, you know, or should know -- >> doesn't add up. >> every time you turn on the tv, every time you hear something, the fingers are pointing at her. i mean, it has to, you know, weigh on him, but he's absolutely never said that as a reason. >> it's not just the fingers, it's she failed some polygraph tests, a voice stress test. there's inconsistencies in her story. her brother went knocking on the door that night when she says she's home, he says nobody was there. what i saw last night on "nancy grace" was really, i'd have to say, a heartbroken almost tortured ron cummings, and i certainly do not blame him. he has endured eight long months of not knowing what happened to his very precious daughter. he says it's the pressure of that case that caused his marriage to crumble. listen. >> miss nancy, i'm not sure what's going to happen in the long run. i can't predict the future. but i would sure hope that just -- with the family problems and everything else, it's too much on the relationship.
>> what's the best hope of finding out the truth about haleigh? cops put the pressure on misty's brother, now the mom's in jail on a check fraud allegation. are they putting the squeeze on this family? wouldn't misty be likely to confide in mom? >> i don't know. i mean, you got to understand, this is a very strange family. you got to look at the sources that, you know, the statements the brother made, where it's coming from. that's another big reason for his divorce. he's married but he doesn't have a family on the other side. when two people get married, their families join. you know, there's injunctions between misty and some of her brothers. you have the mother making statements and threats about ronald and now she's doing it about misty. i mean, it is just a completely dysfunctional situation that is merely adding on to the pressures that he deals with every day from losing his child, and it's just something he's not willing to deal with anymore. >> we have to leave it right there. thank you so much. please come back soon. we hope you find little haleigh. dave letterman, the extortion plot thickens.
jealousy, envy and blackmail. a source now tells "the new york post" that david letterman's sex-laced extortion case has fueled by revenge. meanwhile, the mistress' grandma is talking and you're not going to believe what she's saying. plus heart-wrenching new details in the nypd drunk driving case. we're going to talk to the father of the woman who was mowed down by an nypd officer who was allegedly boozed up behind the wheel. why did it take so long to test him? did a toxic cocktail of jealousy, anger and desperation fuel a twisted plot to blackmail
david letterman? "the new york post" tonight quotes anonymous sources who claim they know why high-powered cbs producer joe halderman of "48 hours" fame or infamy allegedly wanted david letterman against the ropes. according to "the new york post" halderman discovered that his live-in girlfriend, stephanie birkitt, was still having sex with her boss, david letterman, during the time that she and halderman were in a relationship. prosecutors say joe halderman tried to squeeze $2 million from letterman. tonight, sources say quote, this wasn't about money alone. this was revenge. it was all about making letterman miserable, end quote. perhaps, but dave's late show ratings have soared since the scandal broke, so tonight we ask the question, is dave having the last laugh? his audience was certainly laughing last night. >> and you know the tradition of the broadway theater is that if the leading characters can't go
on, they always have understudies so i was thinking we should get an understudy for me because there's a wide variety of reasons i might not be able to continue. you just never know. >> he certainly is a brilliant comic, you've got to hand him that. as for stephanie birkitt, not a peep from her. we have reached out to her. we haven't heard back. she has an open invitation to tell her side of the story right here on "issues." meanwhile, stephanie's grandmother did talk to "the new york post." grandmama no fan of joe halderman and it was quote, stupid for stephanie to go out with him. she calls joe a quote, mistake. you think? grandma's not the only woman speaking out of the national organization for women is lashing out at david letterman's habit of going to the office well to wet his whistle, saying it raises abuse of power issues that can create a hostile work environment. we'll talk about it. tonight's big issue is sex at work okay and if so, when?
straight out to my fantastic panel. lisa bloom, cnn legal analyst. wendy murphy, former prosecutor, author of "and justice for some" and professor at new england school of law. stacy kaiser, psycho therapist and the lone male on the panel, carlos diaz. i know you can handle us. >> i don't like my odds here. i'm not going to make any comments about sex in the workplace, okay? because i'm going to get killed on that. >> carlos, bring it. >> dude, dude. >> we're not going to put you on the spot, per se. we're going to put david letterman on the spot tonight. what is the latest? >> the latest is that you know, now you have another motive here, which could be revenge. we knew before that joe halderman had some financial difficulties, but now when you throw the revenge factor in there, it becomes more and more like a hollywood script every day, a jilted lover who not only wanted money but wanted to see dave burn and dave even said it when he made the admission last thursday, he said that, you know, this person who wants to
extort money from me said to me you know what, even if you give me the $2 million, i still might go with the screenplay, still might go with the book. so obviously dave felt threatened and that's why he went to the police. >> yeah. these two from all reports really despised each other. david letterman made his sex at the office disclosure on thursday as we all know. most of it was dead serious but not this sarcastic clip. >> what you don't want is a guy saying i know you had sex with women so i would like $2 million or i'm going to make trouble for you. >> oh, boy. clearly, no love lost between letterman and his alleged blackmailer. yesterday, the "post" reported halderman became furious when he found out in the diary of his live-in girlfriend, stephanie birkitt, that she was allegedly having sex with letterman while living in connecticut with halderman. we need to get her side of the story. we've been trying. today, sources describe the cbs producer as a jealous, jilted lover who quote, wants to hurt
letterman as much as he can and wanted to hurt the girl, stephanie, too. psychotherapist stacy kaiser, this is the oldest motive under the sun. they say hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. guess what, hell hath no fury like a man scorned, either. >> that's absolutely right. you hear about crimes of passion all the time but i have to be honest with you. you rarely hear about things like this. what i think is going on is it's more than jealousy or envy. i actually think there's a personality disorder here. >> on whose part? >> maybe a few personality disorders here. >> all right. yeah. i think, you know, we were talking last night, why does david letterman continuously go back to the well and go out with co-workers and he married one, when he meets the most beautiful, accomplished, successful, famous and rich women in the entire world on the planet, they sit next to him on a couch on television. why didn't he ask those out? and of course, we're going to
also talk about the big issue tonight that is it okay to have sex in the workplace. i'm not talking about actually doing the act on the job. i'm talking about -- >> good. >> -- is it okay to have a relationship with somebody at work. the national organization for women has come out swinging in the wake of letterman's admission that he had affairs with subordinates. that's the key word. but listen to what tv veteran barbara walters had to say on "the view." >> when you work on a show, especially in television, and you're working late, these are the women you meet. there is no record at all with david letterman of his having promoted someone or having told someone if you don't do this, you're not going to get the job. i mean, i worked on that show a lot and talked with the writers who are women. >> lisa bloom, here's the problem. over at cbs where "the late show" airs, you have a situation where the big boss dated and married a staffer. so i know your mom, famed attorney gloria allred, is
basically taking a shot at letterman, too, we could say. in an open letter posted to radaronline, she says dave engaged in sexual favoritism in the workplace. do you, lisa, believe indeed there was a quid pro quo in the late show offices, if you have sex with me, you are going to get better assignments, you're going to be the one who does those cute little skits out there at the deli? >> first of all, full disclosure, i'm cbs early show legal analyst as well. but really, that doesn't matter because we have been talking about it openly on the early show every day. there's a big difference between les moonvis and julie chen and somebody like david letterman who apparently for a long period of time had secret relationships with staffers. i agree with the national organization for women. i think that creates a very negative environment for the women who are not selected to have sex with him, and for all of the men in the workplace who don't have the opportunity for that kind of favoritism. do any of us want our daughters going into a workplace where the boss is consistently having sex
with women at the bottom of the totem pole? don't we want them to be judged on the merits? that's the problem letterman created. i think n.o.w. is absolutely on the money in that letter. >> wendy murphy? >> i have also written a column that will be posted at the patriotledger.com where i take david on a little bit. i do see him as a victim and i think extortion is worse than whatever he's done that i've heard thus far. we have to remember that. but i do give him the top five things he should be saying on his show to stop joking and to take this seriously, because whether or not there's a quid pro quo, if you create a hostile environment based on sex and/or gender, it interferes with the ability of women to have an equal employment opportunity and that's the whole point of civil rights and title nine and title seven laws that we have been fighting about for so long in this country. i think he's been wrong to do the behavior. but, but let me say this. the whole jealousy motive and the idea that we're going to somehow turn this into a this guy was jealous and that's why he did this, let's be clear.
it was about money and the only reason it's being described as an issue of jealousy or revenge is because when he puts up his insanity defense, it will stick a little better because there is no defense when it's just greed. this guy was greedy. >> carlos diaz? >> i don't think jealousy helps him. >> yeah, but i disagree with that. because what you're saying is jealousy has to take effect here because he read the diary in december and he only came to letterman after he got dumped by birkitt a few months ago. that's where the jealousy factor comes in. >> i think it's what the shrinks called multi-determined. i don't think you ever do anything for just one reason. anything this big, it's got to be a convergence of factors and i think the fact that his ex-wife took the kids away, he was having money problems, the girlfriend leaves, he feels humiliated, and he hates david letterman, and again, he hasn't been convicted. he's just been charged. so i thank you, expert panel. we are going to stay on top of this story. coming up, an honor roll student killed by a violent pack
of teens. what is being done to stop this insanity? we'll talk about it. then a cop accused of boozing it up, getting behind the wheel and killing this innocent woman. will justice be served? the victim's family joins us to talk about their anger after the break. i will be taking your calls on this controversy. was there a cover-up? 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297.
holder and chicago's top politicians call for an end to this kind of murderous mayhem. they deem it a crisis of violence. finally, we are addressing teen violence as the national crisis it is but are we addressing the underlying causes? our culture, movies, tv, video games, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, teach kids that violence is a terrific way to deal with your problems. how about teaching kids nonviolent conflict resolution? we need to teach them how to be peaceful. they don't teach that at school. so along with more metal detectors in schools, we also need psychological detectors so these kids can become psychologically aware of why they're so angry, why they're acting out so aggressively. usually, it's a problem back at home. alcoholism, drug addiction, physical abuse, emotional abuse. do these kids have a safe place to spill their guts about their personal problems, to talk it out? no. do you think they're going to
tell their teachers? hell, no. how about group therapy in public schools? sound crazy? well, that's crazy, that violence. we've got to try something different. tomorrow night on "issues," we're going to have a special report on that horrific deadly beating. is it so very crazy to teach our kids peace? that sounds crazy. be sure to tune in and that's tonight's "top of the block." tonight, new outrage over an alleged police koefr-up in a fatal dwi case. joining me tonight, the grieving family of the woman killed in a horrific crash involving an off-duty new york city cop. sources say officer andrew kelly was totally wasted but managed to avoid a blood test for more than seven hours. by that time, his blood alcohol content, bunch of big fat zeros. officer kelly pleaded not guilty to vehicular manslaughter and dwi and now a grand jury and
internal affairs trying to figure out, hm, was there a cover-up? i will ask the victim's dad what he thinks about the hours and hours it took to test officer kelly. and what about the officer's flamboyant defense attorney. check out his off-the-wall behavior right here. >> can you tell us the status of the andrew kelly case? >> ah, look what you're doing. you're doing. >> i'm just asking. >> at this point, for us, the case is brand new. we're investigating everything. we are not surprised, we knew what the blood alcohol results were going to be, because we knew what he did that night or what he didn't do that night. >> that dance, beyond inappropriate. i want to welcome back don clark, also joining me, detective lieutenant steve rogers of the nutley, new jersey pd and my special guest, reverend valnord and his
attorney, sanford rubenstein. i want to start with the attorney's reaction to the clip you just saw, officer kelly's attorney dancing around. what is your reaction and why do you think he was so gleeful? >> look, i think what's really important here is not so much the reaction of an attorney, but the fact that at the scene of this horrible tragedy, the police officer kelly admitted to drinking six to eight beers to investigators. his eyes were bloodshot. he was speaking with a slurred voice. he refused to take a breathalyzer test and he refused to let blood be taken from him until a court order had to be obtained. now, there are three police officers who have been disciplined for their action with regard to what happened here. one police officer was in the car who fled the scene. another police officer who has been suspended for giving kelly two glasses -- two bottles of water and gum. what was his motive, right before the blood test. and a third officer was
transferred for at least an hour delay in transferring kelly from the precinct house to the hospital for the blood test. >> i want to ask the victim's dad, reverend valnord, i know this has to be very difficult for you, sir. >> yes. >> the way that this man danced around, does it say to you that there is an attitude about your daughter's death that is disrespectful? >> i believe it's really disrespectful because my daughter is dead. i'm suffering. i don't see if he's dancing why he has to be dancing over the death of my daughter. >> i want to take a closer look at the hours following valnord's death. 12:41 a.m., officer kelly refuses a breathalyzer at the scene. five hours later, a warrant is issued for a blood test. then 7:00 a.m., kelly leaves the station and finally goes to the hospital, finally an hour later at 8:00, he has his blood drawn.
seven hours and 20 minutes. what was going on all the time that kelly was at the station, why the foot dragging? and of course, his blood alcohol came up 0.00 which is one of the reasons why this attorney's dancing. it's going to be hard to prove this case. >> i'm not so sure it's going to be hard to prove this case, because the prosecutors have enough evidence based on the statements by kelly of six to eight abeers, based on investigators on the scene, to get a conviction in this case. >> i don't know about that, sir. the reason why i don't know about that is whereas you're alleging that there's a possible cover-up at the scene, so if those officers, some of whom were allegedly engaged in some kind of cover-up, are the ones testifying, they're the ones who could very likely say he didn't have blood on his breath, he didn't slur. >> jane -- >> with regard to the issue of cover-up, the fact of the matter is the internal affairs bureau of nypd is investigating now and if there was criminal acts with regard to obstruction of
justice, or tampering with evidence, they should be prosecuted as well. >> but there's more than that. obstruction of justice is a minor thing, jane, and i agree with you. i think it's going to be problematic here because evidence has to show this officer had blood alcohol -- what his blood alcohol level was. and it's not going to be able to do that, and it's going to move on along and they're going to try to show different types of things. that's what the defense gets paid for. and if they had just followed the rules, just done what they were supposed to do, and treat this officer just like any other civilian would have been treated, then you wouldn't be this. new york city has a good police department. they -- >> i love the cops. but this particular situation stinks. more on the alleged boozy cop who killed in a moment. but first -- that was me this past weekend, leading 700 marchers around central park in new york city's march for the farm animals. a wonderful group called farm sanctuary. those are my two rescue -- three
rescue dogs right there. farm sanctuary rescues animals from horrific factory farm conditions and lets them live the way nature intended. we raised tens of thousands of dollars for this fabulous cause for the cows, the pigs, the goats, and the lambs. and we're going to talk more about news in a moment.
just lost a diamond. i lost a friend. >> that was a relative of vionique valnord. she was trying to hail a cab, taxi-n brooklyn, when an allegedly wasted cop plowed into her with his suv. the impact so enormous she was launched into a traffic light. will this police officer be held accountable for his actions? phone lines lighting up. ralph, west virginia, your question or thought, sir. >> caller: yes. jane, this is ralph from west virginia. and back in 1988 my brother was killed by a cop and the cop was drunk. he came from his retirement party. and i don't -- all he got was a slap on the wrist, and i don't appreciate, you know, cops getting away with that kind of
stuff. >> i saw steve rogers pointing at his ear. can you hear us, steve? okay. let's go to don clark. i don't want to beat up on the cops. i love police. i've worked with them for years doing investigative stories on crime. but this situation stinks, don clark. seven hours and 20 minutes to do a test? >> this is inconceivable. and i too am very pro law enforcement, as you well know, jane, but the bottom line is this is wrong. it was done wrong. it wasn't supervised properly. and somebody allowed this officer to go through and do all of these things, and now it is going to make it very difficult to prove whatever the prosecution was trying to prove initially about the death of this person. >> all right. steve rogers, you're a detective lieutenant with the nutley, new jersey police department. what is the other side to this story? is there another side to this story? >> there is no other side. you know, what jane, you alluded to it before. people generally support their police departments, and nypd's a great department. but what these officers did is
inexcusable. i mean, you give chewing gum and water to someone involved in a dwi case? and as don said, i agree with don clark. where are the supervisors? where are the people to be held accountable? well, as i said before, i'll say it again. that blue wall of silence went up, and it's going to come crumbling down on the heads of those officers who compromise their oath of office. >> and i've got to say, family attorney, last comment. what about the attorney for the cop, saying his client is actually a hero because not only was he not drunk, he claims, but he brought your client's daughter back to life. he's the one who hit her. >> well, first of all, it's an outrageous statement. clearly, he's not a hero. and he wasn't giving a mouth to mouth. it was a relative at the wedding who was giving mouth to mouth. he was trying to do something else. but whatever he was trying to do, the fact of the matter is he had six to eight beers, he was driving when he shouldn't have been, and he killed an innocent victim. >> and jane, can i say one thing also? >> go.
>> that lawyer's clip that you showed in the beginning, that's outrageous. and that does more damage, i believe, to the image of police officers than anything i've ever seen in the past few years. it's outrageous. >> well, it appears that he didn't know he was on camera possibly. >> but this is not a joke. >> and it reveals the real attitude possibly -- and i'd love to have him on the show. he can explain his side why he was dancing. anytime he wants to come on. but to me it says, oh, that he thinks that the zero alcohol test results will work for his client. and that's why he's saying his client wasn't drunk. even though others at the scene have said he was slurring and he had alcohol on his breath and his eyes were bloodshot. >> well, i hope -- >> the test is going to make it hard to prosecute this case. >> well, it's going to make it hard to prosecute, jane, but i want to say one other thing, too. this was bad, bad, bad, but i will tell you that commissioner ray kelly is a really top sh-sh person and i think he'll try to