tv U.S. House of Representatives CSPAN October 19, 2009 5:00pm-8:00pm EDT
he longest-lasting plugins ever. get freshness that won't fade away for 60 days. ahhh! with plugins lasting impressions. and yes, it's glade. s.c. johnson, a family company. the balloon boy drama that unfolded on live national tv, all those intense hours of media coverage police say it is all a hoax. richard and mayumi henne are accused of using their 6-year-old son to stage this event. they could face felony charges. 20-year-old college football player stabbed after a student dance on campus. this hour, his killer's on the loose. jasper howard, going to be a dad soon, his team just won a big game, he received the game ball and hours later he is dead.
call in. 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us cnn.com/primenews or text us at hlntv just start your message with the word prime. it is your chance to be heard. welcome once again. this is "prime news." let's take it back. we were terrified for the 6-year-old little guy who we believed was in a balloon helplessly floating over colorado. now we come to find out police say it was a hoax and charges are likely to follow. i know a lot of you became suspicious when little falcon talked to wolf blitzer hours after this played out. this was the key to uncovering this thing. watch what he says and watch the reaction of dad, mom and his little brothers. >> falcon, did you hear us calling your name at any time? >> uh-huh. >> you did? >> you did. >> why didn't you come out.
>> you guys said that we did this for the show. >> yeah. >> no. >> oh, dad, coming with a yeah. mom coming with a no. imagine what they were thinking at that point. that is the innocence of a 6-year-old telling what many believe is the truth. this was a sick stunt for publicity to pitch some reality show. love to hear from you on this one. 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about it, hln law enforcement analyst mike brooks, cooper lawrence, psychologist author of "the cult of celebrity" and attorney eric richman. mike, your take there. did you see the cues right then all over the place. not only what he said, the show, what show, but the way everyone
acted. >> all the nonverbals. you look at the other two boys. when wolf talked to the father the one little boy looked at the mommy like uh-oh. then you saw them look again. his follow-up question, that is when it did it for me. the father started lashing back at wolf. the audacity of you asking that question. wolf was trying to follow-up. when the father started becoming defensive that is when i went ah. i said before all this happened i said how do you say publicity stunt. >> let's listen to that. this was later in the show, this is almost at the end of the hour. wolf filling in for larry king. he asked him that. he goes back to that. what did he mean by that. let's watch dad's reaction. not a good one. >> we weren't even going to do this interview and i'm kind of
appalled after all of the feelings that i went through up and down that you guys are trying to suggest something else. >> okay. there you go. that's to your point. let's bring in cooper on this one. cooper let's start there with dad's reaction. basically the jig is up, or at least it seems to be at this point. what is going on in his mind and mom's mind as things are unraffling. >> they were caught. wolf asked a very innocent question. he should be yelling at his child for letting everyone know the jig was up. the fact he would want his child to lie for him. that is the lesson he is teaching his child, lie to get whatever you want in life. that is the damage. >> not only for falcon but the other two. >> let's play that bite. listen to it and watch it. what could be going on in their minds. falcon with wolf uncovering what
many of us believed. >> falcon, did you hear us calling your name at any time? >> you did. >> you did? >> why didn't you come out? >> you guys said that we did this for the show. >> yeah. >> no. >> cooper, i mean, yeah, when i first see that. it is somewhat humorous. your 6-year-old got you. it is sad, very sad when you think those wide eyes of the two brothers as well as falcon, just what must be going on in their minds and hearts, a part of this lie and dad is the one forwarding this. >> he looks to the mother for a cue like how do i alps this question. is this how we rehearsed it? children at 6 the way they process lies are different than children who are older. the kid didn't know what to do.
obviously, they hadn't rehearsed it. children want to please their parents. that is their main goal at that age. they know they wanted to give a certain answer. the child's mind is going i know what the truth is, i know what my parents want me to say and at 6 year old it is confusing. >> i hope there is no fallout that the little boy told the truth. >> he obviously didn't know what to say. the father goes, yeah. if it wasn't the truth, what do you mean by that falcon, you did it for the show. he didn't follow up on it at all. >> jeff from rhode island. your thoughts? >> caller: hi, mike. in regards to the father and his sense of reality, how he views things and teaches his kids, when they had -- when you folks had shown the clip of them in the eye of the hurricane, the father had made the comment to falcon, oh, what is that?
it is a truck blown over. isn't that cool. that is anything but cool. you think the comment would be jeepers, i hope nobody's hurt. i think that just goes to show how these people look upon things. >> good point, jeff. let me go to cooper on that one. it is one thing to teach your sons to be tough and be a man at some point. but it is another thing, there is an insensitivity to our caller's point. >> it is more than that. we have talked about this in terms of teenagers and narcissism and this new jeopardy ration of narcissists. there it is. there is no empathy, oh, my gosh. i hope somebody is okay. this is cool. he is important enough we should want to watch him with no repercussions to how he is treating his children. it is about him being famous and him getting a reality show and doing what is best for him.
i have never met him, obviously, but that strikes of narcissism. >> we are going to take a quick break. we will hear from our attorney. what charges could they face, should they face for all this. cooper, your point is exactly that. no thought of law enforcement and all the manpower utilized for this hoax. it is about being famous and getting a reality show out of it. unbelievable. we'll take more of your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.
innocence. let's listen to their lawyer, david lane, talking about the family, they are basically under siege. let's listen to the attorney. >> in his state of mind it is what you would expect someone's state of mind to be after law enforcement has searched your house, seized your property, held a press conference announcing you are about to be charged with felony charges. you would feel somewhat under siege which is how the family feels at this point. >> we'll take more of your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. eric, i think it would be a tough job at this point defending the henne family. what points does a lawyer want to make to defend them? >> right now the point his lawyer is trying to make is there no evidence out there yet. the evidence has yet to be presented by the sheriff. he is saying wait and see. let's see exactly what is going to come out and you can make up your mind.
he is hoping some of this public sentiment will blow over. he wants it to go away quickly. >> you want to stall a bit. >> yeah. >> what charge is he looking at her? let me read a couple, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, conspire si, attempting to innuance a public servant? >> yeah. they are all felonies. he could get up to six years in jail. if he is laughing before, he is no longer laughing. there won't be much laughter in this home. kids say the darnedest things. this kid sunk the ship for him. the most serious felony is going to be that attempted manipulation of a public official. >> what does that mean? >> what he's done is he has basically manipulated the police and 911 services and emergency services, people who dedicated themselves to the health and
safety and welfare of the people. manipulated them on to this ghost hunt. this big elaborate ruiz, this big hoax. they've deflected from real emergencies. people should be outraged. their lawyer is saying there is a presumption of innocence. there is. i'm curious to see the e-mails. they are going to show one thing or another, very incriminating or not. >> mike, 26 years law enforcement. how outraged are you when you consider the manpower wasted on this? >> mike, as a former law enforcement officer and volunteer fire chief who has responded to situations like this, with red lights and sirens. these guys driving across that field when the balloon was coming down. they could have flipped the vehicle over. the helicopter from the national guard, the news helicopters helping law enforcement. one of them could have crashed. i mean, you know, i'm glad none
of that happened but it is always a possibility. the resources that are out there. and, look, it is not out of the picture that the faa since he called them and made a report to them, there's a possibility he could face some federal charges. >> exactly. >> this is far from over for him. >> connie is with us in south carolina. your thoughts here? >> caller: yes. one thing i'm concerned about falcon's safety because of his father's anger issues and another thing out of the mouths of babes comes the truth. okay. >> you better believe it. >> caller: i figured it was a hoax when the balloon went down. >> falcon seems to have cemented the truth. cooper, do you have concern as you -- we are getting snip pets of this family. they have been on "wife swap." do you have concerns.
>> i do. there is a lot of research that your environment is equally as important as the personality of your parents. look at this environment he is in. it is not unlike the gosselin kids. he is force to be on camera and please his parents and developmentally it could have repercussions down the road that could be damaging. >> what do you think? what should happen to this family here? what kind of consequences do you want to see or do you think they are going to get a reality show out of this? call us 1-877-tell-hln.
you guys said that we did this for the show. >> there's little falcon henne saying we did this for the show. we believe the show is the reality show his father was trying to pitch through this elaborate hoax. they are claiming innocence. let's go to the phones. michael from alabama, go ahead. >> caller: i think mr. henne should be held accountable. he went into this stunt knowing that emergency workers would put themselves at risk. >> you nailed it. mike brooks again law enforcement 26 plus years talked about that as well. look at the people scrambling and putting themselves at risk
not to mention as our attorney eric mentioned other emergencies where we could have used these folks were taken up on this hoax going after the elaborate jiffy pop contraption. let's get facebook comments. the weeder you are, the more prone you are to getting your own show. i will never give them ratings. >> cooper, cult of celebrity, will somebody bite and give them a show? >> of course somebody will. this is all our fault. we created this environment that somebody can be famous for breathing. you don't have to have a talent. the whole reality show thing, the fact we are willing to watch. we have power with our wallets and what we tune into. this is the first time in our culture that fame is the goal. it is not like you do something for a living and became famous. your goal is to be famous. >> that is frightening.
that is what our kids are seeing and aspiring to, the 15 minutes of fame. shallow, nothing to it. let's get another call in. douglas in ohio. your thoughts? >> caller: i have eight children myself. and the reality show for this guy should be and i quote from myself, he should have to be a really good father, what i'm saying is his reality show is that he has three boys that should be growing up as good, clean american men in a society where there's a lot going on. when i saw him go into the eye of that hurricane, he should have had a bull's-eye on the back of his shirt saying hey, somebody kill me with a weapon of your choice. i'm putting my kids in danger. you don't sit there and have his kid or try to tell his kid we are doing this for a show. your reality show should be your
are a father. >> got you. here is the video. they were chasing hurricane gustav. dad pointing out they are in the eye. cooper that goes back to the safety here of the kids and whether or not they truly are in danger. >> it goes back to this father being complete narcissist. they are concerned with themselves. they don't have empathy for others. their relationships are messed up because they aren't that concerned with people. it is hard to be a child of a narcissist because they are thinking what is best for them not you. >> you are swooped up. guys, thanks. cooper, eric, mike, thanks. another story. we have a third death in that arizona sweat lodge disaster. a mother of three. the family is planning a lawsuit. we'll take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln. d d d d d d d dd
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. the sweat lodge story out of arizona has gotten worse. we have a third death in this case. the man who organized this sweat as some call it mr. james ray, self-help guru, helped write the book "the secret." he has not talked to police as we know of yet. these three deaths being looked at as a homicide. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. joining us is dave arnason, he has been a part of these sweats.
dave, we want to lean on your insight here. when you hear the numbers, 55 to 65 people in a 415-square foot lodge, what do you think of those numbers? is that way out of line? >> i have been in sweat lodges with 40 plus people and built right and seen them successful. i have never seen a sweat lodge with 60. that sweat lodge and how it is constructed to airflow. it could have been safe just as well as it could have been harmful. i don't know if the sweat lodge size has as much bearing as to how the ceremony was conducted. >> 415 square feet sounds small to me. i have never been in a sweat. it sounds like a small lodge for that many people. >> that is a 30-foot in diameter
lodge. we commonly see sweat lodges 10 to 12 feet in diameter. >> let's get a call in. virginia from north carolina. comment or question here? >> caller: hi. i have a friend who does these sweat lodges and this's not over six people. they have the stones around in the fire and the center and a hose nearby. and they don't wear any clothes. >> whoa. so you said you have been in one or know of them? >> caller: i know of them. >> okay. dave, isn't that the norm, six to eight people, it is more of an intimate environment so if somebody has physical issues you can monitor that more easily than with 55 to 65 people.
>> here's the key. when a person chooses to accept responsibility to pour the water, as we saw, the water power or the facilitator for the lodge and this is the way i was taught, if you pick that responsibility you are responsible for the health of every person in that lodge. it doesn't matter if it is ten people or eight people, there are four rounds, it is not continuous. in between rounds the facilitator is asking people is everybody okay, in between rounds or during the rounds it's put out there pretty directly if you are struggling or need to leave this lodge then feel free to leave the lodge. we never do these lodges without water, water rooms where people rehydrate. we cool off the sweat lodge
between rounds and raise the blankets on the side of the lodge so everybody gets a reprieve. we never in all the lodges i have ever done i have never seen or heard of a person getting burned in a lodge. >> right. >> caller: because i'm a doctor, i have intimate knowledge of hydration and nutritional status of people. when we see this thing that goes into kidney failure and multiple organ failure it is about dehydration and too hot. >> i guess what we would think with that many people it would get that much hotter. if someone was beginning to fail physically, who would know with that many people. lynn, let me get back to you on this. we talk about the investigation. are they trying to find whether or not there was a medical release form signed or whether or not -- go ahead. >> well, there was a release
form that was given out to the participants before they participated in this. as a matter of fact, it was sent to them -- the letter was dated july 2nd. in part of that release form they said they understand there are inherent risks in the activities, people may have been seriously injured and by voluntary choosing to participate in the activities i may receive injuries that may require medical attention. people were clothed. >> thanks for clearing that up. >> the only entrance was -- there is only one entrance planned ray was seated by that entrance and they could not see inside. it was very, very dark. >> we are led to believe that the two people who died were in the back, furthest away from
from that opening, right, lynn? >> yes. >> we would think it would be especially hot back there so far away from the one opening. dave, again, you've been a part of these. do you ever have medical personnel onhand and do you think it would be a good idea? i would personally but defer to you as an expert. it would be nice to have more than one nurse. >> i'm a doctor so i always have a medical person onhand. but you have to understand that this ceremony has been done for thousands of years by our native american brothers and sisters. it is a sacred ceremony, it is a spiritual ceremony. their idea of medicine is different than ours. they would consider the fact that the medicine man or the person pouring the water is there to help and assist the people. why would we want insist on
having a nurse and ambulance crew when, in fact, this is rare circumstance here. this is something that's come out of one incident. and generally i can tell you that these lodges are safe. these lodges when the person who is pouring the water, the facilitator is cognizant of what is going on in that lodge. it is his job. >> i think that's why we're here to figure out was this one safe. was the construction of the lodge, was it large enough for that many people? and because of the number of people could you monitor someone and if someone begins to fail and say i want out would you know. good conversation. the clock has run out on us. dave, we have to run. i'm sorry. we'll have you back. we appreciate it. coming up, sad tragedy here. soon to be dad, uconn football player. he was a good one.
the person responsible still on the loose. he died of a single stab twound the abdomen. it happened after a school dance. he was soon to be a dad. first person in his family to go to college. his teammates loved him. >> the idea that he would grow up without his father tears me apart. just to think what it would be like for that young child. but as jaz looks doub on us, i can promise him and his family, that son or daughter will have 105 uncles. >> another player stabbed. he identified johnny hood as a person involved in the attack. cops arrested him in charges of breach of peace. he is being held on $100,000
bond. joining us to talk about this mike brooks. 300 kids, college students went to this dance. you have to figure a lot of folks saw some things. >> apparently they believe there might have been two groups, students and non students. i'm sure there is video surveillance. it was a sanctioned school event by a student organization. you interview everybody who was there. there were other players. they are not identifying who they are. they are going to be the ones you want to talk to right off the bat. they've said the one guy, the 21-year-old hartford man locked up for disorderly conduct and interference with the police he was involved in the altercation. what his role is, they are not saying. you start off interviewing all the people there. and then figuring out, okay, who
was closest. the who, what, when, where, why, and how of what caused this poor guy's death. >> they just won a big game. jasper received the game ball. you talk about a bright future. a great young man. with all that said i think more people would be willing to talk to find out who did this? >> oh, absolutely. you look at this guy. just a good guy. everybody says. the ironic part, mike, apparently he left -- he went there to try to escape. got out of miami to escape the violence of where he lived. his mother said she just wanted an education for him and that is what he was doing. and he was doing what he loved, played football. called his mom saying he had gotten the game ball for how well he played hours before this
in a game against louisville. >> not a random act. uconn students shouldn't be fearful here. so what does that tell you, mike? are you seeing another student here they have their eye on? >> they're also saying, mike, which i thought was interesting. they are saying it wasn't premeditated. so what that says to me it wasn't somebody he might have known who was there to do harm to him. was it spontaneous between these two groups of students and non students and things heated up. mike, come on. everybody used to get in fights now and then. not everybody, but some people. now we go to violence, guns, knives. was it just that? the cause -- something stupid that was said that might have disrespected somebody or somebody didn't like what somebody said. we don't know the exact motive.
they are saying that no one else is in danger. it wasn't premeditated. i think they have a good idea of someone who may have done this. >> lethal violence. >> right. >> like you said maybe some fisticuffs. >> it is not out on some club or in the street. this is on campus at a school function that is what irritates me. >> mike, thanks. florida health officials drafting a plan to ban terminal patients from being admitted to hospitals if the state is overwhelmed by flu cases. that is frightening. that is the plan here? take your calls 1-877-tell-hln.
welcome back. "prime news" on hln. this is frightening to think what could happen if there is a severe flu outbreak in florida. i said could. this is the plan we are getting at least so far. health officials drawing up guidelines to decide who gets life-saving care and who doesn't. the terminal patients, incurable cancer, end stage multiple sclerosis would be turned away from hospitals. they could have their ventilators taken away. health officials could be making the call on who lives and who dies. we'll take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it, kenda kendall coffey and summer johnson. it is frightening to hear this. that the homt could make a life-or-death call. could we get to this point, summer? >> we absolutely could if a
pandemic breaks out what the state of florida is trying to do is not have doctors ad hoc making decisions. they want to have a universal rule of what is going to happen if termly ill patients are going to try to come to the hospitals and try to get ventilators. they will not give them to people who aren't going to benefit for them. they are termly ill. they are going to die. they shouldn't be given them over people with the potential to live. i know it is a sick feeling that you are not going to get a ventilator if you are terminally ill. the health care system doesn't work like the show "house." if we get to the point where we have a pandemic some people aren't going to get the care and not everybody will have access
to a ventilator. that is the way it is going to be. it is scary, but that is the truth. >> let's hope and pray we don't get to this. kendall, this is may live anoth two. they may be terminal. is there ways you can fight this and fight for your relative in a worst case scenario like this? >> i think you can certainly expect very, very forceful efforts to insist on medical care for beloved relatives. i've got a father that's 88, and i understand all the medical concerns that summer was describing. but if what you're talking about is a judgment, and there is no specific hard and fast rule that anybody can apply, in terms of how advanced someone's terminal illness is, thank god we all know people who have exceeded by many months, sometimes years, whatever the medical expectations are, and yet to have doctors basically being told, right now, go start making
plans to decide who lives and who dies, it's going to be agonizing. it is going to create, i think, an emotional trauma, perhaps even some cam pan onin the legal system chaos. think of all the people, i would be an example of them, who might be rushing to court to get an order that says, don't take my dad off the ventilator. and i think to assume there's going to be some manageable system to ration life-saving care, is unrealistic. and the focus ought to be on getting more ventilators, trying to shift from hospital to hospital, planning -- >> better solutions, exactly. >> there's going to be a lot less chaos if we have a plan in place so that doctors don't have to make those ad hoc decisions, and we'll prevent the cases like the terry schiavo mess we had in florida. >> summer, we've got to take a break. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.
♪ welcome to comcast local edition. i am donna richardson and my guest this hour is colonel george f. johnson iv superintendent of the maryland natural resources police. colonel, thank you for joining me. >> great to be here with you. >> in addition to being with the maryland natural resources you are president of the maryland police chief association, and who in addition to chief are your members? and who is working with you? >> it is comprised mostly of chief of police from all over the state and state government and law enforcement chiefs and
county and municipalities that exist in all of the state of maryland. >> i know as a group i know there are several initiatives taking place. there is a new one. checkpoint strike force. >> yes, it is a research based-multi-state situation where we pick and we go out there and we look for drivers that are impaired and work to get them off of the road and we do that through our sobriarity checkpoints and our saturation patrols. >> and so, which jerse - jurisdiction, one specific area or all of the jurisdictions now involved? >> all throughout maryland, the chiefs of police have signed on. every jurisdiction signed on in some way shape or form to participate in the checkpoint strike force. >> and so do you find that the checkpoints are helpful in
hopefully lowering traffic fatalities? >> absolutely. fatalities have been reduced 20 percent in the areas where we are doing the checkpoints . it proves to be extremely beneficial to us in many different ways. >> and do you find that the residents are supporting the checkpoints and do you have partner necessary this effort? >> yes, we do. as you know, it is a powerful organization of mothers against drunk drivers. we work with them chosely in this endeavor and other organizations. their surveys indicate 85 to 90 percent of the people they talked to support the checkpoints. >> do you do these at specific times of year or are the checkpoints ongoing initiative. >> they are ongoing initiatives. they will be taking place every week and everywhere and where you think that it is the best
possible opportunity to deploy the work force and effective use knowledge of our people in this endeavor. >> as you are having the checkpoints and i know initially you are looking for impaired drivers, but are you finding other things when you are pulling over the impaired drivers? >> oh, yes. people are very surprised what we run into on the checkpoints. the main focus is to get the impaired drivers that use alcohol off of the streets and identify them. but we are running into people who have warrants on them. their licenses are suspended, some people have drugs in the vehicle this we were able to detect and find. there is a whole gamut of things and seat belt usage. it helps us with the seat belt
initiatives and child safety seat. we are able to make different observations and of course, we put a lot of emphasis on the seat belt usage and child safety seat as well >> i know some jurisdiction or most of the them, there is zero tolerance if you don't have your seat belt on, it is amazing that people are still driving without them. >> it is with the seat belt usage, if you are involved in an accident with the impaired drivers that use alcohol that gives you that much more of a chance to survive. >> how can citizens assist with the checkpoint strike force? >> we need them to be our eyes and ears out there. as with many thing necessary law enforcement and we ask citizens to do. if they see a person driving erratically or aggressively and feel they are under the influence of alcohol. pick up the cell phone and dial the number 911 or what ever it
the balloon boy drama that unfolded on live tv, you may have watched the intense of media coverage. police say it was all a hoax. richard and mayumi heene are said to have used their 6-year-old son to try to score a reality show out of it. we want to hear from you on that one. a 20-year-old college football player stabbed after a student dance on campus. this hour the killer is on the loose as we look at jasper howard, a dad-to-be. his team just won a big game. he's a team captain, got the game ball, then hours later he's dead.
as always, love hearing from you. taking your calls at 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us, cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv, just start your message with the word prime. your chance to be heard. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is hour number two of "prime news." i'm mike galanos. take yourself back, we were terrified for a 6-year-old boy who at one point we believed was in a balloon, helplessly floating over colorado. this saga played out on national tv last week, for hours right here on hln. now we come to find out police say it was all a hoax. possible charges are not expected until at least next week. i know a lot of you became suspicious. some of you were suspicious from the beginning. really got that aha moment when little falcon talked to wolf blitzer hours after this played out. watch and listen. watch what little falcon -- listen to what he says and then watch dad's reaction, mom's reaction, and the reaction of
his brothers. >> falcon, did you hear us calling your name at any time? >> mm-hmm. >> you did? >> you did? >> why didn't you come out? >> um you said that we did this for a show. >> no. >> hear those reactions? dad going, yeah. mom, no. as the little brothers are looking back and forth like, well, what now? how about the innocence of a 6-year-old finally telling what many believe is the truth, that this sick stunt was for publicity to try to score a reality show. what do you think should happen to them? what kind of consequences? 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it, welcome back, hln law enforcement analyst mike brooks. also with us, mark, online columnist for e, and joining us as well, stuart brazell, be
interesting to talk to her whether these folks have a future in the reality bush administration after all this. let's get to it. i want to go back to mike brooks. mike, we hear it again. the moment, the aha moment for investigators. and come on, you're a seasoned vet. when you heard little falcon say do it for the show, you practically had to come out of your chair at that point. >> absolutely. wolf tries to follow up. dad goes, yeah? and then it's like, are you ro. the kid's looking around like, what do we say now? mom says no. wolf follows up on it, mike. just said, well, wait a second here. what do you mean? then he gets -- dad gets very defensive about wolf just following up on a question. you know, as he should as a journalist, especially when he was on "larry king live." so, you know, that was the moment that i said, you know, i said all along, how do you say publicity stunt. after this, game set and match.
>> let's get a call in. janine in oregon, your thoughts? >> caller: hello. my thought was, as the young man was being asked the question, i'm wondering if he wasn't confused having been on "wife swap" several times, that maybe he thought he was supposed to be answering, you know, in the same context as he would have -- if he were in the position of being filmed by the crews in the past with the "wife swap. "by answering it was part of the show. >> do you think this was a hoax or not, janine? >> caller: i don't think it's a hoax. >> wow, janine's holding out hope that the heene's are telling the truth. by the way, they do say they are innocent at this point. mike, real quick to you on that. what evidence are you looking for? investigators did a great job, right? they played along that, hey, this was a real event, not a hoax. so then they got the two parties separated so they could question both mayumi and richard.
>> even before we weren't sure this is a hoax or not, interview the parents separately, get the kids and interview them separately. in fact, after all this happened, apparently they took little falcon upstairs and he allowed law enforcement to interview him upstairs. but mike, when he said to the little boy turned next to him and said, did you hear us calling for you? you're going to tell me that he already had not asked this up until the time of this interview? come on. no, no, he had. and it was, uh-oh, we went off script here, guys. >> yeah, he did. let's listen to the sheriff talking about that technique of how they basically duped the heene's into getting them separate so they could do some more questions. let's listen. >> mr. heene voluntarily came in here under the pretext of we were going to return his aircraft to him. unbeknownst to him at the same time the minute he hit the door here, we had investigators prepared to go to the house, and talk to mrs. heene and try to
gain her cooperation as well as conduct interviews with her and the children. >> there you go. again, good investigative techniques. with all that said, obviously we had drama last week, as we watched it unfold. big ratings for everyone who covered it. and people are still interested in the story. let's go over to stuart bra zell, a reality show casting agent. do these folks have a future here, or not, stuart? what do you see for them? that's what they want, whether they get convicted of felonies or not, will someone give them a shot? >> you know, unfortunately the amount of publicity they got on thursday was astounding. richard heene basically held the world hostage. everyone was riveted to their televisions. i think we have a case of someone who appeared on the reality show, got that fame, hook in them and was willing to do whatever it takes to get his own show. he's media savvy. he said, what can i do to get the attention? he got it. >> he sure did. people are still rubbed somewhat
wrong by the gosselins as that has played out and we see a family break up, do you think with that said -- look at -- they could be facing felonies, very well could be facing felonies. >> and lose their kids. >> that's right. people will be looking into that. with all that said, will somebody give them a shot at a reality show? >> you know, sad enough as it is, they could still get a shot. that's the way this business is. because they could get the ratings. i hope it does not go in that direction. i also think that with what's been going on with the gosselin family, we have to look at how is this affecting these children. these three kids, my heart goes out to them. >> exactly. poor little falcon, woken up at the crack of dawn so he could go on another show and threw up a couple of times, poor kid. mark, let me get you in on this. your thoughts on whether heene or his family will get show out of this? >> i think they could definitely get a show out of this. it's sad, but i think they can
get a show. this isn't the first time with someone with possible felony charge, doing jail time, it has all the makings of one of those really sort of train wreck reality shows. throw the parents in jail. are the kids with them, not with them. the guy obviously has no problem being in front of the cameras saying whatever he needs to say to get some fame. >> that's the recipe for a reality show, right? a train wreck. that seems like what we have here. we're going to take a quick break. 1-877-tell-hln. would you watch or not? call in.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our conversation about the balloon boy hoax. even though the heene family still claiming their innocence. innocent until proven guilty. we're taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. amanda's with us in colorado. amanda, your thoughts? >> caller: my thoughts are that i believe the heene family should lose their kids, due to the fact that it was misparenting i feel. i have a 7-year-old little boy, and that day just worried me. i literally cried, because that's just like a heart attack waiting to happen. >> as you were watching this, it brought you to tears? >> caller: yes, it did. it did. i saw how fast the balloon was going. and i'm like thinking to myself, oh, my god, what if that was my son. and it worried me. >> how angry to think this might be a hoax, amanda? >> caller: i'm very angry with it. very angry. >> if they get a reality show, would you watch? >> caller: no. >> there you go. >> caller: i think a lot of parents would agree that they
should lose their children. and that they should still serve time. >> mike, we've got a ton of calls here, but i've got to hit you with, what are you looking at here? we've had facebook and phone calls about, are the kids really safe there? as investigators, do you take a look and what are you looking for here? it's not like the guy's hiding anything. >> you go back and see if there had been any other calls for police service at that house before, and why had police been called there. and go back, they're taking a look at everything right now. they did a search warrant on the house. taking a look at -- all his computers and everything else. they're going to talk to the kids, too, separately, mike. they have enough to bring charges possibly, we hear next week. you know, it's just wait and see what they charge them with. >> shelley, go ahead. >> caller: hi, good evening. i agree with the mistreatment of the children. we've always taught our children to tell the truth. that's obviously what the child was doing, telling the truth of
what his dad told him. >> little 6-year-old bringing what we believe to be the truth. let's go back to mark. where did we -- how do we get to this point that we teach our kids to lie? we're teaching our kids to lie so we can land a reality show. >> this obviously isn't the first time that parents have told their kids to lie. but this is probably one of the first times that parents have told their kids to lie and it's sort of held the world hostage. but that's what reality television has done. it has told everyone, you could be a celebrity. it doesn't matter what you do, what you say, you could be a celebrity. and there could be consequences with the way you go about doing it. but guess what, you could still be a celebrity, and guess what, richard heene right now is a celebrity. >> you're right. we have to admit it. stuart brazell, reality show producer, casting agent. you see this firsthand.
has this -- has that shift really completely happened in our society where people don't want to do something to become famous, they just want to be famous now, whatever it takes? >> you know what, nine times out of ten, let me tell you, whoever is on "survivor" right now, chances are they have been trying to get on since season two. they said, i didn't get on this time, what can i do. in this case, i think this is someone who is a frustrated actor in los angeles. i think he created this character, kind of like mad scientist, i'm going to do a science show with my kids, and just went with it # 00%. >> that's part of it, isn't it? creating a character. it's not -- who knows -- well, i guess that's what the guy is like, at least from what we can see. let me ask you this, stuart. charges filed, if -- does that endear the character or make the character bigger? does that help him get a show, that he could be facing felonies and part of that drama as well? >> i personally hope not.
but once again, it's so scary to say that yes, it might. it really, truly could. it's terrible. >> i think you put it well, mike. jon and kate, train wreck tv. >> it certainly would be. hopefully they won't get a show. we'll continue the conversation. we want to hear more from you. call in, as we look at the charges they're facing, serious felonies, 1-877-tell-hln.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln, continuing our conversation about the balloon boy hoax. that's what police are saying the heene family continue to maintain their innocence. i hate to say this, but after all is said and done, this nutty professor and his family will probably get their own reality show. call in, 1-877-tell-hln. what do you think should happen? would you watch if they had show? let's go back to mark. do we -- he pitched a reality show. do we know anything about what the show entailed, or what the title was going to be or anything at all? >> we're told here that they were pitching reality show to they're basically a crazy and wacky family that does crazy and wacky things. this guy, from what we understand, he would do anything. so i basically think it was a
blank check, tell us what you want us to do, we're wacky, we're crazy, we'll do it. >> anything to get that attention, huh? stuart, do you know any more specifics being in the -- really on the inside of reality shows? do you know anything more about that? >> i think this is kind of an ending to just a really sad story. these two men in an acting class, they had a failed kind of production company in los angeles, where they were producing acting demo reels. i think employees stole their business from them overnight and they were put in complete despair. they were broke. just desperate. i think this is an act of desperation. they wanted fame so much, they were willing to do whatever it takes. possibly putting their own children in danger. and then in the reality role, you just have to look and say, gosh, you know, we've got to make some changes. we've got to make some changes. >> we have to draw some line hopefully, and hopefully the heene line will be drawn and we won't cross it. it's just open-as we see this and just look at -- let's listen
to little falcon when he, what we believe finally uncovered the truth. this is little falcon with wolf blitzer on the larry king show last week just after this played out. >> falcon, did you hear us calling your name at any time? >> you did? >> you did? >> why didn't you come out? >> because we said we did this for a show. >> man. >> no. >> okay. there you go again. as you heard dad, he didn't know what to say. mom either. she was saying no. he was saying yeah. so telling there at that point. let me go back to mark. they were on "wife swap's twice, right? >> yeah. >> did they get good ratings? did they play to rave reviews when they were on? >> this is a family that, from what we're told, wasn't very well liked in this whole "wife
swap" thing. richard heene is not getting, you know, great grades for "wife swap." but again, you know, like we said before, this is a train wreck. you have this guy who's willing to try to convince his 6-year-old son to, you know, complete this thread of a lie over and over again. he's 6 years old. >> and the other kids knew about it as well. three boys being taught that, from a father. you talk about the scars left behind on that one. stuart, any other thoughts on what their role on "wife swap" and how that played out? >> if you take their episode, you have the moms traded with a psychic. it's kind of, we've been in reality tv now for over a decade, it's how do we push the envelope. what's next. it becomes more and more and more. and that's when you have something like this, somebody gets frustrated, they're trying to get their own show. a network doesn't like it, so being media savvy. --
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our conversation, the sweat lodge story out of arizona has gotten worse. we now have a third death in this kafls. the man who organized this sweat as some call it, mr. james ray, self-help guru, helped write the book "the secrets." and he has not talked to police that we know of as of yet. and these three deaths being looked at as a homicide. those are the basics that we have. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. joining us, dave, from a medical clinic, a part of these sweats, and dave, we want to lean on
your insight here. when you hear the numbers, 55 to 65 people in a 415-square-foot lodge, what do you think of those numbers? is that way out of line? >> well, i've been in sweat lodges with 40-plus people and seen those successful. i've never seen a sweat lodge with 60. it's constructed with air flow and those kinds of things. i think it could have been safe. just as well as it could have been harmful. i don't know if the sweat lodge size has as much bearing as to how the ceremony was conducted. >> is 415 square feet, it sounds small to me, i've never been in a sweat, but that sounds like a pretty small lodge for that many people. >> well, i mean, that's a 30-foot diameter lodge. and we commonly have sweating lodges that are 10 to 12 feet in
diameter, from 12 to 16, 20 people in those lodges. they hold 30 people in 15-foot lodges. >> virginia's with us in north carolina. hey, virginia, comment or question here? >> caller: i have a friend that does these sweat lodges. and he does the tepee style. and there's not over six people. and they have the stones around and the fire in the center, and a hose nearby. and they don't wear any clothes. >> oh. you said you've been in one, virginia, or just know of them? >> caller: i know of them. >> okay. dave, isn't that the norm, six to eight people? so it's more of an intimate environment? you know, if somebody does have physical issues, you can monitor that a lot more easily than if you had 55 or 65 people. >> here's the key. when a person chooses to accept
responsibility to pour the water, as we say, the water pourer, the facilitator for the lodge, initially i was taught, and this is the way that we learned it, was that often they take that responsibility and are responsible for every other person in that lodge. whether it's ten people or eight people, it's not a continuous thing. the rounds can be 20 to 30 minutes apiece. facilitators monitor in between rounds. the facilitator asking people if everybody's okay. in between rounds, or during the rounds. it's out there pretty directly that if you're struggling, or if you need to leave this lodge, then feel free to call for the door to open and to leave the lodge. and we never do these lodges without water. water rounds where people rehydrate. we cool off between rounds, the
reasons the blankets are on the side of the lodge so everybody gets a reprieve. and we never -- in all the lodges i've ever done, i've never seen or heard of a person getting burnt in a lodge. because i'm a doctor, you know, i have intimate knowledge about hydration and nutritional status of people. when we see this thing that goes into kidney failure and multiple organ failure, it's about de hydration. >> i guess what we would think with that many people, it would get that much hotter, if someone was beginning to fail physically. who would know, you know? with that many people. i think that's what people are looking at. lynn, let me get back to you on this. when we talk about the investigation, are they trying to find whether or not there was a medical release form signed? or whether or not -- go ahead. >> well, there was a release form that was given out to the
participants before they participated in this. as a matter of fact, it was sent to them -- the letter was dated july 2nd. and in part of that release form, they said that they understand that there are inherent risks in the activities, people may have been seriously injured by participating in the activities. and if i voluntarily choose to participate in the activities, there's risk that i may receive injuries that require medical attention. and to answer a couple of questions, people were clothed. and -- >> thanks for clearing that up. >> the only entrance was -- there's only one entrance, and mr. ray was seated by that entrance, and they could not see inside. that it was very, very dark. >> we are led to believe as well that people that -- the three people that died, at least two of the three were in the back, furthest away from that opening, right, lynn? >> yes. >> okay. so we would think it would be
especially hot back there, being so far away from the one opening. dave, again, you've been a part of these. do you ever have medical personnel on hand, and do you think it would be a good idea -- i would personally, but i'll defer to you as an expert -- with that many people, it would be nice to have more than just one nurse? >> well, in our lodge, of course, i'm a doctor, so i always have a medical person on hand. but you have to understand that this ceremony has been done for thousands of years by our native american brothers and sisters. it's a sacred ceremony, a religious ceremony. the spiritual way is a little bit different than ours. they consider the fact that the medicine man or the person pouring the water is there to help and assist the people. why would we want to insist on having a nurse and an ambulance crew sitting by when in fact
this is a rare -- this is a rare circumstance here. this is something that's come out of one incident. and generally i can tell you that these lodges are safe. these lodges, when the person who is pouring the water, the facilitator, is cognizant of what's going on in that lodge, it's his job. >> and i think that's why we're here now, to figure out if this one was safe. was the construction of the large, large enough for that many people, and because of the number of people, could you really monitor someone. like you said, if someone begins to fail and say, i want out, would you even know. good conversation. clock's run out on us. >> certainly. >> dave, we've got to run, sorry. we'll have you back. we're not finished with this story obviously. guys, we appreciate it. coming up, sad tragedy here. soon-to-be dad, uconn football player, good one, stabbed to death outside of a school dance.
outside a school dance. the campus university of connecticut. he was soon to be dad. first person in his family to go to college. his teammates clearly loved him. >> the idea that he will grow up without his father tears me apart. just what it will be like for that young child. but as jasper looks down on us, i can promise him, and his family, that son will have -- or daughter -- will have 105 uncles for the rest of his life. >> another player, brian parker, also stabbed. he had minor injuries. he identified johnny hood as one of the people involved in the attack. cops arrested hood on charges of breach of peace and interfering with police. he's being held on $100,000 bond. joining me to talk about this, mike brooks.
mike, 300 kids, students, college students, we should say, went to this dance. you've got to figure a lot of folks saw some things. how do you begin to piece this together? >> apparently they believed there might have been two groups, students and non-students involved in this altercation. i'm sure there is video surveillance on campus. it was a sanctioned school event by one of the student organizations. but you start off by interviewing everybody who was there. there were other players who were there. they're not identifying exactly who they are. they're going to be the ones who want to talk to right off the bat. and it's just -- they've said -- the one guy, the 21-year-old hartford man who was locked up for breach of the peace, basically disorderly conduct and interference with the police, that he was involved in the at tags. what his role was, they're not saying. but they're saying he was involved. you start off with interviewing all the people that were there. and then figuring out, okay, you know, who was closest, what did they -- who, what, when, where,
how, why, and what caused this poor guy's death. >> they just won a big game. >> yeah. >> jasper received the game ball. you talk about a bright future. and quoting now, they said just a great young man. so with all that said, i would think more people, mike, as an investigator, someone who's loved like this, more people would be willing to talk, right? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, you look at this guy, just, you know, just a good guy. everybody says. and the ironic part, mike, apparently he left, he went there to try to escape. got out of miami to escape the violence of where he lived. and his mother said she just wanted an education for him. he was doing what he loved, playing football and had some of the biggest plays of the day. apparently called his mom saying they had given him the game ball for how well he played just hours before this. in the game against louisville. >> let's hit on a couple things we know, been said by authorities, not a random act.
uconn students should be fearful here. what does that tell you, mike? are you seeing another student here that they have their eye on? how far can we go with that? >> they're also saying, which i thought was interesting to say that it wasn't -- they don't believe it was premeditated. what that says to me it wasn't something who was there that he might have been known there was there just to do harm to him. was this spontaneous between these groups, these two groups they're talking about, students and non-students? and things heated up? i mean, mike, come on, everybody used to get in fights now and then -- not everybody, but people got in fights now and then. now you go to violence, guns, knives. was it just that? that caused this -- something stupid that was said. you know, that might have disrespected somebody. we don't know what the exact motive was right now. they're saying no one else is, you know, is in danger.
it wasn't premeditated. i think they have a pretty good idea of someone who may have done this. >> you mentioned lethal violence is what it's turned to. when like you said, maybe some the fisticuffs -- >> it's not out at some club, or out on the street. this is on campus at a school function. that's just what really irritates me. >> mike, as always, thanks. coming up, 20 prisoners in north carolina sent for early release. nearly all convicted of murder, rape, several had targeted young girls. why are they getting out early? call in, 1-877-tell-hln.
these are violent thugs, and convicted of murder and rape. many targeting young girls. you've got to be kidding me. state supreme court upheld a 1974 statute, it defined life in prison as 80 years. time off for good behavior. some lifers getting a second chance? what about their victims? like this woman, raped when she was just 9 years old. >> what would i say to him? is not what i would say to him, but what i would do to him, because i feel like he shouldn't be living on this earth. >> there you go. the we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining me, my friend and colleague, jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues" coming your way at the top of the hour. jane, we're talking, these aren't reformed people. they're still committing assaults and getting into fights. 7 of the 20 on death row. how are they getting out early? >> they're getting out for good behavior when several of them have dozens of infractions, one
of them accused of raping a 9-year-old girl, inside prison is accused of assault with sexual intent, which pretty much the same thing that he was put in prison for. so how is it possible that this person is being released with time served for good behavior? what kind of good behavior is that, mike? >> it's baffling. what more could happen, unless they do something, we could have dozens more released, right, under this same statute? >> 120 quite possibly. to me, this is the perfect example that epitomizes when we talk on our show "issues" on the war on women. this is a minimizing of the crime of rape against women, a crime of violence against women. i can assure you if those judges had been raped, they would find a way around releasing these people. >> we've heard -- the person we heard from was raped when she was 9. there is another person who committed a rape on a
15-year-old, while escaped from prison. murder of a state trooper. michelle's with us in illinois. michelle, go ahead. >> caller: hi. you know, my comment is, just that if these people are not rehabilitated, they shouldn't b they shouldn't be let out of jail, number one, and then number two, we've got dna evidence that someone has killed someone and i don't see why the death penalty is not involved in that process, and why we do have to go through so much hoopla and why it does cost just as much to pull the plug on somebody as it does to keep them in jail for a very long period of time. i feel like the justice system fails us in that regard. >> all right. >> caller: since i'm a believer of the death penalty, i think these people -- >> so you're thinking death penalty for these folks so it would be a moot point. regardless of that, jane, it's just -- i can't believe that the system has failed us in the sense of letting them out early. how many cases do we have to look at? over and over again with the
recidivism and jaycee dugard, perfect example, with phillip garrido where this is played out over and over again. >> he was supposed to serve 50 years, half a century. he got out in 11 years. this is after he kidnapped and violently raped a woman. he got out after 11 years. what did he do? cops say first thing he did, very short order, kidnapped little jaycee dugard, held her for 18 long years, during which time he repeatedly raped her and fathered two children with her, and he was being watched by a parole officer. did they see anything? no. because one of the arguments is well, there's checks and balances here to monitor these people. nonsense. according to the stats, the possibility that one of these individuals who is released will commit another crime, another violent crime, is huge. >> yeah. that's what gets so many people. we'll be watching. "issues" coming up top of the hour. in the meantime, we'll bring in an attorney to talk about what legal standing, how is this happening? dddddddddd
tonight, blood-boiling developments in the balloon boy saga. cops now say this entire thing was a publicity stunt, planned by his parents. this hoax sent helicopters racing to the rescue and people were potentially risking their lives in a frantic bid to save this young boy. all because dad was allegedly angling for a reality tv show. so did these parents force their own kids to lie to police just for fame and fortune, and could they now lose their children? and 20 men convicted of rape and murder walking free this month in north carolina. nothing is being done to stop it. these men were sentenced to life behind bars, but now they're free to roam the streets.
statistics say there's a high likelihood they'll strike again. that means there's women out there who could be raped and murdered because of this horrific decision. the biggest insult, some of these men committed dozens of illegal infractions behind bars and now, they're being released for good behavior? plus, seismic new details in the ongoing octomom drama. the doctor who implanted nadia suleman with six embryos has been told to take a hike. he's been booted from a professional organization for repeatedly violating the group's standards. was this all because of nadia or has he been reckless with other patients in the past? get this, he can still practice medicine. what? "issues" starts now. tonight, outrage across america over what could be the biggest hoax of this century so far. people who literally prayed for a little boy to survive a terrifying ride in a runaway flying saucer now feel angry and
betrayed as cops tell the nation you have been had by a family of publicity-mad scammers. >> as i said, this is -- it has been determined that this is a hoax. >> that's right. that announcement yesterday completely different, however, from what cops told us on friday. more on that major flip flop coming right up. this weekend, after conducting polygraphs on richard heene and his wife and searching their home, the larimer county, colorado sheriff said it was all a big publicity stunt. now balloon boy's parents could face serious charges including conspiracy, lying to cops, contributing to the delinquency of a minor and attempting to influence a public servant like this, for example? >> is this richard? >> yes, it is.
>> that supposedly frantic call to 911, it was reportedly placed after richard heene called a local tv station. that says a lot. the alleged publicity stunt threatened to cause chaos in the skies over colorado. denver international airport had to divert flights and even the national guard got involved, dispatching two helicopters in an attempt to rescue 6-year-old falcon. then falcon suddenly appeared in his parents' home and his mom declared it a miracle. oh, really. and then little falcon appeared to slip up, revealing inconsistencies in his story during his family's media tour.
cops said ah-ha, now the family has lawyered up. a high profile criminal defense attorney now represents falcon's parents. >> his state of mind is what you would expect someone's state of mind to be after law enforcement has searched your house, seized your property, held a press conference announcing you're about to be charged with felony criminal charges, your state of mind would be rather upset and you would feel somewhat under siege, which is exactly how the family feels at this point. >> meantime, the cover of "the new york daily news" is screaming bad dad and asking the question should these three boys be removed from their allegedly publicity-mad parents' home. is that going too far? tonight's big issue, are those three young boys in harm's way? what do you think at home? give me a call right now. first straight out to my fantastic expert panel. bradford cohen, criminal defense attorney and spokesman for the website, dirtygavel.com.
i got a clean gavel right here. lou polombo, director of the elite intelligence and protection agency and former law enforcement officer. robi ludwig, noted psychotherapist and russell wetanson, entertainment reporter, legal analyst and founder of popsquire.com. but we begin with the one and only judge karen mills francis, host of the judge karen show and former miami dade county court judge. judge karen, if you were the judge in this case, what would you think is appropriate to see this mom and pop charged with and should mom be treated as harshly as dad, who was the alleged mastermind? >> you know, jane, how you doing? i was in new york at laguardia airport thursday, american airlines was making an announcement that the denver airport was closed, every tv in the laguardia airport was surrounded by people riveted about this story, and to find out that this whole thing was
done for celebrity and done for money? they want attention, i think they deserve detention. >> i like that one. all right. you know, this is -- it's funny in a way. you could make jokes about it like, for example, richard heene thinks the world's going to end in 2012 so maybe he doesn't care if he's in prison because it's all going to be over in his mind by 2012. but it's not funny. because there were people who put their lives at risk to try to rescue what they thought was a little boy trapped in that contraption. the website gawker.com paid for and posted a very shocking story from a guy who says he was collaborating with richard heene, the dad, as recently as this past winter, they were working on what else, a reality show pitch. robert thomas says heene had an idea about getting publicity. quote, richard said how much do you want to bet we could facilitate some sort of a media stunt that would be equally profound as roswell and we could do so with nothing more than a weather balloon and some controversy.
now, i got to ask russell wetanson, entertainment reporter, is this in a way what reality tv has brought america to? this garbage? that has sucked all of us in? >> it's definitely sucked us all in and in some ways, the answer to that is question. we have seen a lot of people get on reality tv shows for being all kinds of jerks, frankly. we have michael vick, we had rod blagojevich, we have lots of people who had opportunities in reality tv. but until today or this weekend, we thought the best way for a family to get on tv would be to have too many kids. so they're just taking it to a whole new level here. i mean, the thought of launching a spaceship or some sort of flying saucer into the skies, a way to get on reality tv, this is something we have not seen. >> i would agree. let's hope we never see it again. you know, i have to say, what really upset me when i really kind of got angry was when i saw that little boy throw up on air.
6-year-old balloon boy falcon got sick as we all know, vomited on national tv twice on friday, live on nbc's "today" at 7:08 eastern and again on abc's "good morning america." take a look for yourself and analyze it. >> mom -- >> one of the guys told me it was for some tv show so that's what he was referring to. >> should we take you to the bathroom or something? >> yeah. >> okay. >> okay. >> is he okay? is somebody going to go with him? do you want to run with him? that's okay. we'll understand. sure. >> robi ludwig, at first, of course, our reaction was why didn't the parents do more, their child's getting sick, but to me, the key thing is that he got sick every time he was essentially allegedly asked to lie. why did you say you did it, for a show. what are these kids going through psychologically, being torn between loyalty to the
parents and telling the truth? >> you know, i'm sure they feel like they're not being recognized. their rights are not being recognized. because their parents are not considering them, are not considering what it would be like for them to tell a lie on national television. this is not coming from their heads. this is the parents telling their kids to lie on behalf of some goal, what, to be on a tv show? it's very, very sad. i think it says a lot about this child that it literally made him sick to his stomach to tell a lie. >> i want to ask our investigator on the panel about richard heene's personality. okay, the guy who sold his story to gawker says essentially he was very hyperactive, driven by ego and fame, all about controversy, would do whatever it took, extremely paranoid, filled with conspiracy theories. one of them is that the world's going to end in 2012 and then we just found out from tmz that in
1997, he was charged in l.a. with misdemeanor vandalism, vehicle tampering and disturbing the peace and was -- he pleaded no contest and spent four days in jail. what is going on with this guy? is he chock full of nuts? okay. i'm asking that to lou polombo. >> no problem, jane. i apologize. >> go for it, lou. >> i think obviously this gentleman needs some court-ordered psychiatric evaluation and some extensive counseling and probably the mom as well. obviously these children are in a somewhat unsettled environment and i think child protective services at some point needs to take a very good inspection of what the living conditions are. >> why is it everybody has a psychological issue? any time somebody does a bad thing, they must have some psychiatric problem. these people were just greedy. they wanted to be on a reality show. they have been on a reality show in the past. they see what's going on with
jon and eight plus kate and octomom has a show. they see it as a way to make money. i don't think he needs psychological counseling. >> but the dysfunction sets in when you start to use your children as the impetus to fulfill whatever your aspirat n aspirations are. i think that's the indicator. no question greed is a common denominator in america. >> people do things for many reasons. they do it for greed, they do it because they're mentally ill. it's multi-determined as the shrinks would say. nobody does anything for just one reason. bradford cohen, should the mom face the same charges as the father? she obviously seems under his spell and to a certain degree, under his control. >> it's interesting. you know, we need to see what role she actually played in the whole hoax. >> she called 911. she told them that her son was in a flying saucer. that she was terrified. >> where did her knowledge come from is what we're looking at. did she actually believe it or did she actually -- was she in
on the hoax. who knows. i don't know if he had enough control over her to say hey, listen, this is what we're going to do and go along with it or did he actually say to the wife as well, the kid is actually in this box, which is unbelievable, because when i saw it on tv, it doesn't even look like that box was made out of cardboard. >> i think they should each have a different lawyer. that's my opinion. >> oh, 100%. not even a question in my mind. >> we are taking your calls. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. what do you think about this? let me know. coming up, north carolina's most dangerous criminals being set free. i am talking rapists and murderers, people. back on the streets. we'll tell you what the excuse is this time. but first, are the heenes getting a fair public trial? do you think they deserve one? >> these folks are presumed innocent and they are willing to turn themselves in. there is no reason for handcuffs to be slapped on them in a public way, for public consumption.
we now know that his educational level is only high school. he's not what you would think the nutty professor. he may be nutty but he's not a professor. >> except it's not really funny, people. richard heene is an amateur scientist and professional tile layer. that's right. that's what he does for a living. over the weekend, our loveable einstein wanna-be pulled yet another stunt. listen to this. >> i got people e-mailing me, calling me, they've got a lot of questions and i don't know how to quite frankly answer any of them other than i've got a box
and so later on tonight, 7:30, i want to meet you guys again. i can look these questions over and then i can answer them, okay? so i'm going to place the box up front. please write your questions down. >> want to guess what happened next? he took the questions, never returned. apparently somebody told him keep your mouth shut and notice that the hair is suddenly slicked back. it's a new look for maybe, i don't know, phase two of his publicity campaign. patty, wyoming, your question or thought, ma'am? >> caller: i was just one dwond, jane, you're a sweetheart but this man was saying the other day his kids are allowed to swear in the house so what kind of abuse you think they're getting, the mother and kids, from him as he goes through these little tantrums and swearing? these children are not being raised right. >> i think you raise a wonderful, wonderful question and it brings us to tonight's big issue. are these three boys in harm's way. should the heene children be taken away from their eccentric
parents and possibly accused parents, or is that way too drastic? here's what the sheriff had to say about that. >> i think it would be appropriate to involve child protection to at least see what the family situation is and whether the children are in a safe condition. i think we just have to do that. >> okay. critics say hey, it's not safe to schlep your kids into a hurricane which as you can see from this video, is exactly what this family did before the alleged balloon boy stunt, the heene family sought fame and danger chasing deadly storms with young boys. now, there's also questions tonight about possible domestic violence against mayumi, the wife, in february. police responded to a 911 hangup. the deputy heard a man yelling, he noticed the wife when he got there with a mark on her cheek and broken blood vessels in her eye. she blamed contact lenses. cops say they did not have probable cause to make an arrest.
robi ludwig, this is painting a portrait. what's the portrait? >> well, you know that was my first thought, too, is this husband abusing his wife so that she really is powerless and has no say over -- or at least feels that way, has no say over what goes on with her children or in the household. listen, you had this very narcissistic guy who's good-looking, obviously needs attention, feels he's not getting his due. the problem is his judgment is really truly impaired. should these kids be removed? listen, we need more information. we don't know if these kids are actually being abused or neglected. we know there's poor judgment so certainly, this needs to be figured out by professionals. but they certainly need parenting classes. that's for darned sure. because these kids are being put at risk just in terms of moral judgment. >> parenting classes? i think that ship has sailed. >> in addition to a lot of other things. >> bradford cohen, my question is, there's a whole bunch of charges. one of the charges could land
six years in jail. should the mom face the same charges as the father? obviously, she's being taken along for the ride, so to speak. >> i don't know about that. i like to see what she actually knew, what her knowledge was, befo before we say that. but you know the thing that sticks me, this sheriff coming out and saying i was playing a hoax on everybody else, i didn't really believe them from the get-go. i don't believe him as much as i didn't believe the story. i think he believed them from the get-go, i think that's going to be trouble for him. i think it's going to be trouble for the prosecution, because they came out and said i believe him 100%, i really looked in his eyes, i trusted him. >> you know what, we're going to get to that in a little bit because we're coming back with more on balloon boy in just a moment. hang in there, fantastic panel. we will talk about this family's apparent addiction to publicity in a little bit. in my book "i want" i talk about my addiction to many things, including alcohol, how i struggled to overcome that. i also faced an addiction to sugar. maybe you're battling some kind of addiction or know somebody who is. if so, read my book. it will help with any addiction.
a new bombshell. the beverly hills doctor who created the octomom monster has been tossed out of his fertility group. the american society for reproductive medicine told him get out, don't let the door hit you in the you-know-what. you broke the rules by implanting too many embryos into nadia suleman, a woman nadia's age should have one, maybe two embryos implanted. this guy popped in six and then two of them split and the rest is history. nadia gave birth to eight babies, now has a total of 14 kids. yikes. it's reportedly not the first
time this doctor has done this. records show the doc transferred an average of four embryos to patients under 35. my issue is why is this doctor still allowed to practice at all? shouldn't they yank his medical license? plus, a really horrifying confession from octomom herself. could she become a mother of 22? listen to what she told radaronline. >> jon gosselin, i think he's hot. >> all right, that was hard to understand but i think she said she found jon of "jon and kate" cute which really scares me. jim moret, attorney and chief correspondent for "inside edition" god help us if those two get together, right? >> she said actually that he's hot and she has a crush on him which is even worse than being cute. i mean, yeah, i can't even imagine the reality show, 22 kids and jon running around
chasing them to change them. >> he kind of needs a job because they kicked him off "jon and kate plus eight" so he can jump over to the octo household and start a reality show with her. >> sure. call it "crazy eights" or something like that. i don't know what you would call it. i wanted to get back to the doctor who treated nadia suleman. the group that he was expelled from is not the medical board that can actually take your license away. it is the reproductive, the main reproductive group that sets guidelines for these doctors and the only thing that can actually hurt this doctor is the fact that insurance plans generally will not pay if you're not a member of this group so it will hit him in his wallet, but the bigger issue that you brought up a couple seconds ago, is there has to be a case brought before the medical board and a decision by the medical board so this doctor, jane, is still allowed and licensed to practice medicine and can continue doing what he's been doing and that's really the troubling issue.
>> some people feel that's an outrage and i sort of agree. octomom 'says the same doctor helped her have all 14 kids so he's allegedly the man responsible behind this. check out this clip from radaronline. [ crying ] >> what's the latest on these kids? we haven't heard from them in awhile. >> that's good. i suppose that's good because we haven't been hearing from child protective services. perhaps they're leading, i don't want to say normal life because -- >> don't say it. it's not possible. >> when you look at that clip, you realize how irresponsible it is to implant so many embryos. how can one person take care of 14 people all alone, no job?
seismic new details in the ongoing octomom drama. the doctor who implanted nadia suleman with six embryos has been told to take a hike. he's been booted from a professional organization for repeatedly violating the group's standards. so was this all because of nadia or has he been reckless with other patients in the past? but get this. he can still practice medicine. what? but first, a furious public and a family in jeopardy tonight as the alleged balloon boy hoax completely unravels. >> between the husband and wife,
you've probably seen some of the e-mails and some of the things on the internet suggesting that there may be other conspirators. we're certainly examining that possibility, including the possibility that even some of the media outlets may have had some knowledge about this. >> the heene parents facing possible serious charges. investigators say they could be ready to announce whether to file charges as soon as next week. meantime, the public and the media have totally lost patience with richard heene. >> could you just say once and for all, was this some sort of publicity stunt? was this a hoax and will you talk to the police today? >> absolutely no hoax. i want your questions in the box. i'll get right back to you, okay? >> but he didn't get right back to them and notice his hair is different. it's slicked back today. i don't know what that means. back with my fantastic panel. bradford cohen, you're the spokesman for the website, di y
dirtygavel.com. you guys had an exclusive report about richard heene's profile. can't keep up with all these sites. quote, mr. heene did not set his profile to private. in fact, any competent police department could have found this site and the profile prior to today because it was completely public. what's the significance of what you're saying there? >> well, what happened was about two weeks before any of this occurred, this site, realitywanted.com, where people would post their profiles, where other producers and people that would look to make a reality show would go on and look at the individuals' profiles. his profile was created two weeks before this occurred, completely public. the police officers in that area, the sheriff could have just done a search on his name and found this profile. on sunday it was set to private. prior to it being set to private, the dirtygavel.com was able to do a screen grab of his profile. >> what was the headline on there? what's the revelation on that site?
what's so big about it? >> well, what's so interesting is that he was pitching a show two weeks prior to this occurring. it was so close in time that -- and then allegedly someone switches the profile to private -- >> let me translate for you, then. i think what you're trying to say is if the cops had done very quick internetwork, they could have googled his name, gotten on there, seen that this is a guy who's a publicity seeker, maybe we can't send out the helicopters because there's nobody in there, but you could never know that for sure. that's why this story is so aggravating. you could never operate on the assumption that that little boy wasn't in there because what if you were wrong. that's the problem. >> absolutely right. >> pamela, north carolina, your question or thought. >> caller: jane, you rock. >> thank you. >> caller: you absolutely rock. >> thank you. >> caller: i want to say first of all, why in heaven's name those two little boys that said that they saw their brother in a
so-called box below that balloon, which there wasn't one, why in heaven's name when the police were called and got there, did they not search the attic? when you're looking for a wanted criminal, you don't leave any stone uncovered inside of a house, and another thing i wanted to mention is this -- i don't want to say what i think about this so-called father. >> okay, go ahead. >> caller: but his wife seems like she is being subserviant and being controlled by him. >> i agree with you. you have made some excellent points. robi ludwig, again, this woman, theoretically, because she made the 911 call, could go away for years and years and years. what happens to the kids if they're both convicted and sent away to the slammer? >> well, i imagine they would look into finding a family, perhaps family members that
could take care of these boys. although i find it very unlikely that these two people will be put in jail. there's overcrowding in prisons and i just don't see it happening in this case. >> i disagree with you, robi. listen, i think there's a lot of -- we put more people in prison than any other country in the world. there's a lot of stupid convictions. there is some woman right now cut in a loin at walmart and she could be going to jail for 15 years because she got angry because she was accused of cutting a line in walmart. >> the runaway bride? >> okay. judge karen mills, this one, i don't put in that category. >> yeah, but remember the case of the runaway bride? fbi and all those other organizations were involved? in the end she got two years of probation. she pled guilty to making a false statement to the police. i think what i'm incensed about with this case is the amount of emergency personnel that were diverted to this emergency, fire rescue, emergency medical
technicians, the police, the national guard -- >> the faa diverted planes. >> those planes. what if there had been a real emergency? maybe a fire, where there were children inside a home and these people had played out this hoax? >> russell wetanson. okay. >> here's the other thing, jane. even if we think that -- even if you put aside and take them at fai face value, they're saying they were trying to put together a roswell like event. even doing that was irresponsible in a post-9/11 world. you're just going to launch something up into the sky and not tell people what it is? that would -- >> is the question -- >> woe need to make an example of this family. >> one at a time. >> the question is -- >> my last question to russell wetanson, this guy paves tile. he can't pay any of these fines back if he's fined half a million dollars or whatever. he lays tile for a living. is he going to get a reality show after all this is done? yes or no, russell? >> my answer is no. because once you involve these kids and you're accused of
contributing to the delinquency of minors, that's where viewers, production companies and even networks i think will draw the line in the sand. >> have you watched a reality show lately? these reality shows all seem to be contributing to the delinquency of minors. all of them. >> this is a little different, because this is played out in the public before it was a show. just like nadia suleman didn't get a show on american tv. i think we can analogize it to that. >> you just answered the question. he's going to have a show but it will be in saudi arabia or something. thank you, fantastic panel. we've got to leave it right there. people want to talk about this story. i mean, it's all anybody's talking about. but up next, wow, this is a star football player stabbed to death after a game. his killer on the loose. the latest developments on a horrific tragedy and philip garrido could never have kidnapped jaycee dugard if he was forced to serve out his sentence. instead he was let out decades early. >> phillip went out to answer
the door and came back in and said it's the heat. am i going to have to tie you up or will you be good? i said no, i've been good, don't tie me up. so he went back out and i sat there for a minute and thought if there's a policeman out there, i have to try. >> now, dozens of dangerous criminals are being set free and those are not them. is this the american way, letting rapists and murderers walk free because of some technical loophole?
let's meet today's winner. cindy g. from grand prairie, texas. cindy is a recovering gambling addict from horse racing to casinos to online gaming, even bookies. she says her addiction has crippled her financially. she lost $2,000 in one night online. ouch. that hurts. through counseling and even falling off the wagon a few times, she says she's finally learned how to battle the urge and has not placed a bet in six months. well, cindy, for sharing your fantastic story, you'll be getting an autographed copy of my new book "i want" plus a chance to win a trip to new york city and visit me on the set of "issues." i promise you one thing, we won't go gambling afterwards.
thank you so much. it's great to hear those stories of recovery. moving on to an uproar in north carolina. dozens of convicted felons being released from jail. we're going to tell you why but first, "top of the block" tonight. breaking developments. an arrest has been made in jasper howard's homicide case. he's the university of connecticut football star who was stabbed to death at a studen student-sponsored event saturday night. cops picked up 21-year-old johnny hood in connection with jasper's death. he has been charged with interfering with police and breach of peace but no murder charges. that's interesting. meanwhile, jasper's college campus in a complete state of shock. get this. jasper had just finished playing the game of his life. he was out celebrating and that's when a fight broke out. >> he was a great kid. i never had no problems with him. all i wanted him to do was go to
school and get an education, and he was doing what i asked him to do. i never had no problems out of him. none. >> cops say jasper, who was about to become a father, was stabbed in the stomach. he died on his way to the hospital. this is such -- another preventible tragedy. we have seen all of this before. there is a violence crisis happening across the united states of america. jasper isn't the only victim and unfortunately, he won't be the last. not unless we all get involved and get together and put an end to this madness. let's do it for jasper and all the other jaspers out there. let's stop the violence. that is tonight's "top of the block." turning now to a horrifying example of what we on "issues" call the war on women. north carolina is about to free dozens of murderers and rapists originally sentenced to life in
prison. state courts ruled they could be freed under a 35-year-old law that defined a life sentence as just 80 years. when you combine that with reduced sentences for quote, quote, unquote, good behavior, some of these sickos will serve just a fraction of their sentences. one of them is steve wilson. he raped a 9-year-old girl in the late '70s. 9-year-old girl. he's had 18 violations in prison, including an assault on an inmate with sexual intent. wilson's victim is now in her 40s, obviously disgusted that her rapist is days away from freedom. listen to her. >> as i reflect back and had to really learn more of the story about what happened to me, and how it destroyed my family, my mother, my uncles, how it changed my childhood, how it basically destroyed my family, what would i say to him?
it's not what would i say to him. it's what would i do to him because i feel like he shouldn't be living on this earth. >> let me welcome back my fantastic panel. also joining me, thomas bennett, executive director of the north carolina victim assistance network. thomas, what was your reaction when you first heard about this insane ruling? >> this is an outrageous situation. it's a terrible miscarriage of justice and i have talked with several of these victims of this particular cohort of convicts. they are angry, they are frightened and they have every right to feel that way. this is a terrible miscarriage of justice. >> judge karen mills francis, here's what i don't understand. okay, they're saying a life sentence means 80 years. well, some of these crimes were committed in the late '70s so that's still just 30 years. do you mean to tell me they can chop off decades and decades with so-called good behavior that really isn't, and doing a few jobs and getting a few merit points? >> between 1974 and 1978 in
north carolina, the law was that a life sentence was 80 years, but that for every day a prisoner did not commit an infraction, he could get a day off of his sentence. subsequent to that, though, life means life in north carolina, but only for first degree murder. so north carolina doesn't recognize a life sentence for sexual battery. that's the unfortunate thing. >> that's where the war on women comes into play. the minimizing of these sexually violent crimes. i have to say i want to pull my hair out in tufts sometimes. bradford cohen, there was an article on the front page of "usa today" that said rapes are at a 20-year low in america. you know what that means? 89,000 reported rapes in 2008. that's something to celebrate? 89,000 reported rapes? that doesn't include the unreported rapes. this is an epidemic of violence against women. when are we going to get real about it and realize that these
people are likely to strike again, because it's an urge, it's an addiction? they're not looking for money. >> listen, i know you always say the war on women but this is, really, if you lo at society as a whole, the problem is the law is the law. this is what the law was in the 1970s in that area. there is nothing to do about it. it's very clear. it didn't say 80 years minimum. it didn't say a minimum mandatory. it said 80 years. at that time, that is what was implemented. now if you look at it now, of course, now it seems outrageous that they will let all these individuals who are murderers and rapists out now, but in the '70s, that's what the law was and it is a good ruling in terms of following the law. >> well, look -- >> jane, florida has done something about it. rapists have the highest recidivism rate among all offenders. florida has the jimmy rice act which calls for an involuntary commitment for somebody who served his time for forcible
sexual battery, basically the state can keep that defendant in jail if they can prove that he is still violent and hasn't been rehabilitated. >> here's the problem. when violent criminals get out early, the chances are, as you just heard from judge karen, they will strike again. long before he abducted jaycee dugard, phillip garrido was sentenced to life for kidnap and rape. he got out 50 years early to the horror of his rape victim. >> have you lived in fear ever since? >> yes. >> how many years ago was that did he get out? >> he got out in '88. >> so you have been living in fear now 21 years? >> especially the first five years, i just -- i just knew he was hunting me. i just knew he was. >> and he was. thomas bennett, what do you say to victims like katie hall who know their attacker will be out on the streets? >> we certainly urge them to be alert, to be aware of their surroundings, and what's going on. i have urged the victims i have
talked with to contact their local law enforcement and let them know about their concerns, but the sad truth is, there's not a great deal that can be done for these victims. they are in a terrible situation situation. and as the victim you've already spoken about said, these folks are going to be looking over their shoulders for the rest of their lives. >> absolutely. >> i spoke to one -- >> hold on one second. listen, lou palumbo, you're a former police officer. when people say there is no war on women, i say imagine for one week if we turned the tables and when we turned on the local news we saw men, instead of men we saw women being arrested and perp walked over and over again for rapes and murders. i mean, come on. let's be real. we've got a problem with male violence in this society, and the equation of masculinity with violence. this is a serious cultural problem. >> jane, i -- but jane, i think the thing you have to focus on is the fact that once again the
system is failing us miserably. they need to legislate different sentencing guidelines so mistakes like this don't occur again. >> we've been talking about sentencing guidelines since there was television, and nothing is getting better. we need a cultural shift away from violence. everybody, stay right where you are. we're going to dive deep in --
what would i say to him? it's not what would i say to him. it's what would i do to him. because i feel like he shouldn't be living on this earth. >> that was a rape victim rightfully outraged that her attacker would be allowed to walk from prison next week. he is one of dozens of violent offenders who will be freed early. and that is because the north carolina supreme court is allowing a 1974 sentencing law to trump justice and safety. and i dare say if those judges had been raped, somehow they might figure out a way to keep this from happening. this is all part of the
minimization of crimes against women. and it's just another variation on what's happened since the dawn of time, the subjugation of women. and we as a gender need to get together and say enough, enough. regina, tennessee, your question or thought, ma'am. >> caller: yes, ma'am. it's deplorable that these people are being let out of prison early. especially the ones that have been violent still in prison. if we truly wanted truth in sentencing, we would add time on for bad behavior, not take it off for good behavior. maybe then people wouldn't want to commit crimes. >> bravo, regina. well said. >> jane, that is a great point. that's what i was trying to bring up. they committed crimes while they were in jail. why is no one asking the state attorney why they didn't prosecute and why they didn't prosecute is probably because they were figuring oh, you know what, they're in a life sentence anyways, who cares about that they committed a new assault or
a new battery while they were in jail? why don't we look at that for a minute? she has an excellent point. >> the reality is there are thousands of inmates released from prison every day, something like 300,000 a year. this has just become a story because it's something that happened 30, 40 years ago. but rapists and murderers are being released from jail every day. but jane, i think you're right about this whole violence thing. when we think about stalkers, when we think about serial killers, when we think about child abductors, they're always violent men. instead of the war on drugs, there needs to be a war on violence. and i think it's time that women say it's enough. >> i agree with you 100%. that is our big issue. tonight a new poll by "time" magazine found that for the first time in history women make up half the u.s. workforce. we've made so many huge strides. but women are still living with a psychological burqa because we are living in fear. as i mentioned, 89,000 rapes reported last year.
that is 89,000 too many rapes. and my big issue is we need a new wave of feminism that targets violence against women. women -- this is not anti-male. this is women and the men who love their daughters and wives and want them to be safe getting together and say one rape is too many in this country, much less 89,000. that's what i'm talking about, bradford cohen. >> listen, i understand where you're coming from. but you know, if we look at it as society as a whole, i know you love to say war on women. let's not forget -- >> look at the crime. do you see women committing -- come on. look at the stats. go to the fbi page and look at the stats. >> well, let's look at this also. men are less likely to come forward. let's look at that also. men are less likely to come forward. and not only that, men -- >> come forward with what? >> come forward with a crime that has been committed on them by a woman. >> thank you, fabulous panel. >> jane? >> we're going to continue to debate here on "issues." you're watching hln. dddddd