tv U.S. House of Representatives CSPAN November 10, 2009 5:00pm-8:00pm EST
a heinous crime, a group of teens accused of turning a helpless boy into a human torch setting him on fire over money for a video game. 40 bucks. new this hour, those three boys charged as adults, charged with attempted murder as this 15-year-old victim continues to fight for his life. let's take a look at this, college soccer player watch the yank of the ponytail and down she goes. she also threw some punches, did some tripping, here comes the punch in the back. what is going on? then we have rhode island high school soccer the ladies going at it again a full-on fistfight
erupts here and ends up in the stands. sports can be intense, but what's going on with our girls? that's the question. call in. your thoughts, 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us cnn.com/primenews or text us at hln tv just start your smes sage with the word "prime." your chance to be heard. welcome once again this "prime news" i'm mike galanos a story we continue to cover and it's a horrifying visual a 15-year-old boy doused with rubbing alcohol and set on fire. michael brewer is still in critical condition at a hospital in miami, has burns over 65% of his body hooked on to a ventilator, can't speak and has band damages that have to be changed daily a painstaking four-hour process. now, five teens are accused of turning him into a how many torch, a quote from a judge and now three are charged as adults
for attempted murder. john, let's start with the charges. we've got three teens, three of the five charged as adults facing attempted murder charges. how did the prosecution lay this out there, they should be charged as adults? >> well, they actually went through some psychological counseling, a couple of them and based on the results of some of that psychological counseling, as well as the, you know, interviews with the defendants in the case, three of the five were charged late yesterday with attempted murder in the second degree. they appeared in bond court. you can see that there today. the three that appeared in bond court that's mike -- matthew bent, jason mendez and denver jarvis there on the right. so those three in court today and the judge saying that, given the horrific nature of what they
had allegedly done, that there would be no bond in the case. now, there is some good news today to report. you know, we had a long extensive interview with the doctorate the jackson memorial hospital burn center yesterday afternoon. he was saying that, you know, very slowly they have been trying to wean michael off of the ventilator. well, late this afternoon, we got word from the hospital that, in fact, he is off the ventilator. now, that's good news. but, couch it by what the doctor also told us, that, in fact, things can turn from good to bad and bad to good very quickly. >> so, his survival is not assured, right, john? >> no. it's absolutely not. in fact, you know, the doctor told us that, look, we are hoping that he survives. we are heading in that direction. and -- but, at the same time, he said, it would not surprise him if michael brewer did not
survive. remember, two-thirds of his skin as the doctor put it, two-thirds of the largest organ in the body, the skin, is gone. and he also said that hollywood has never come up with anything as gruesome as this and he hopes they never do. >> hmmm. >> we can come in each day or get a phone call at any time that things are getting a lot worse or getting a tiny bit better. people get sick real fast and they get better slowly. right now with him we're getting a tiny bit better every day. >> so, there you have the doctor saying that, in fact, getting a tiny bit better every day but understand we're not talking about someone who is going to be out of the intensive care unit, you know, in a week or two weeks. months of intensive care followed by, you know, months of therapy. another piece of the good news is that fortunately for him, according to the doctor there, that his hands appear to be spared for the most part of the
burns, as does his face. so, he will not be -- have facial disfigurement and certainly that is good news. >> okay. couple of good pieces there but it's sobering news, john, when you also find out, hey, things could take a quick turn. let's bring in elizabeth kelly, criminal defense attorney and i'm going stog read a facebook question here. it gets to the point, what factors lead into charging a teen as an adult here. >> well, michelle's question or michelle's point is absolutely right. these are kids. they have kid-size sdfd braid b. this is a medical fact that the u.s. supreme court has acknowledged and they should be tried as kids. if they are tried as adults and if they are convicted as adults and punished as adults, then you
are going to ruin two more lives and two more families. nothing is going to restore mr. brewer, but ruining additional lives and additional families will not help the situation. >> what's the proper punishment, elizabeth, can a juvenile system dole out enough punishments for the heinous act they are alleged to have done? >> certainly so. that's what our system was designed to do, designed well over 100 years ago with the idea that kids are different, this recapable of being rehabilitated and the best way to rehabilitate them is to give them hope that one day they will get out of jail or prison and leave productive and law-abiding lives. >> john, real quick, the clock is ticking on us. basically what we have here allegedly matthew bent told denver jarvis to pour the alcohol on michael brewer and jesus mendez hit him on fire, the three main players here. have their families spoken at
all, the suspects' family. >> jarvis's family has spoken and he has a younger brother, denver jarvis, one of the two juveniles not charged as an adult and his mother did speak speak last week kag how is deeply, deeply saddened they are about all this, the only actual family that have spoken facing these terrible charges. interesting note, michael when we talked to the forensic psychologist who conducted the interviews with the jarvis brothers, he said that these kids, and they had -- right now, i mean, they are absolutely just devastated, they have no real conception of how deeply -- how much trouble they are in. they just, they never realized it would get to this point. they're standing in court there in orange jumpsuits and in a daze. >> wow. okay. we have to leave it there, guys.
elizabeth, john, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> coming up, ft. hood, a somber day, a memorial service to remember the victims of the mass sthoost left 13 dead. some sad pictures of children who are now without a mother or a father. 12 of them u.s. soldiers, national heroes. we'll take your calls on this at 1-877-tell-hln.
attended today's memorial service in texas to honor each of the victims. you can see here a helmet, boots, a rifle. president obama, the commander in chief spoke at the service trying to be a voice of comfort during this difficult time. let's give it a listen. >> for those families who have lost a loved one, no words can fill the void that's been left. we knew these men and women as soldiers and care givers. you knew them as mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, sisters and brothers. >> there you have it, very well spoken there. let's bring this our experts on this and take your calls, by the way 1-877-tell-hln is the number. joining us to talk about ann scott tyson military reporter for the "washington post." we'll get really into the investigation side of it with her also with us jack helmer, field director for military ministry at ft. hood.
jack, were you at the memorial service today? >> yes, i was, mike. >> how moving was it today? you could feel it, as i was watching it. were you there. describe your feelings being so close to the situation. >> well, i've been to more moving ceremonies but these are soldiers and they are -- many of them are combat veterans so they're not as emotionally as probably the general population but they were there to honor their brothers who had been killed so there was a serious kind of solemn mood to it, more than you would expect at any other gathering of soldiers. >> was there a poignant moment, what got me was to see the children. anything get you, jack? >> yes. i think the thing that hit me most was general george casey,
who had the question and it's a question from the bible and he asked, who will go for me? who will i send? and he answered it at the end, here i am, send me. and that's what a lot of these soldiers are doing. they're going -- or they're signing up, enlisting or becoming officers and volunteering to put their lives on the line and they're not expecting to be killed on this side of the ocean, but occasionally they are. but each of them knows that it may come to that. >> you know, that has to be, as you counsel some of these families that has to be so difficult -- i mean, it's difficult enough itself but to lose their life at home a place like ft. hood where you feel like you'd be so secure. >> yes. the soldiers, as has been pointed out in the news, don't
carry weapons around ft. hood. they pick them up from the arms room to go and qualify and turn them in again. and like most of america, we feel very safe, law enforcement does a good job of keeping us safe so every once in a while, though, there's a change and something's a little different. a lot different. >> let's get a call in, laura is with us in north carolina. hi, laura, your thoughts here? >> caller: hello, mike. i just wanted to comment on the beautiful service today for the military at ft. hood. we need to hug a soldier or a sailor or a somebody and say "thank you." it's a thankless yjob. i know they volunteer and supposed to know what they are getting into but they didn't ask for this, this is just terrible. >> well pullt, laura. i spoke of the children and there was a child-to-be involved
in this. >> private franchesca velez, daughter of a father from colombia and pure toe rican mother -- when she was killed, she was pregnant with her first child and excited about becoming a mother. >> the lives lost, this is about people and a human tragedy here. we're going to take a quick break. as we go to break, more tributes to our national heroes. ♪ amazing grace ♪ how sweet the sound ♪ that saved a wretch
there again some of the emotional pictures from today's memorial service. family walked by. the boots and the photos of those who lost their lives on that tragic day in that tragic attack, heart-wrenching to watch that. that's what we're talking about here, the loss of a loved one, that's what we boil it down to on a human level. in the midst of that we still
want answers of why this was done, the alleged gunman getting more revelations about major nidal malik hasan and shocking details about a lecture he gave at walter reed, 2007. joining us to talk about that ann scott tyson "washington post" military report. what do we know about this lecture? he lectured on islam suicide bombers. what can you tell us about that? >> we know he gave it in june 2007 to about 25 supervisors and colleagues in the mental health field and his basic message it was harder and harder for muslims serving in the u.s. military to participate in these warms against other muslims, they were feeling guilty they should not be killing other muslims and there was a warning, also, this could lead to so-called adverse events. >> okay. when he's saying that by those who were there, detake it he was warning them that a soldier at some point would do this and
obviously we look at this and what he's accused of, was it a foreshadowing of what it came to be? >> the people who listened to this were very upset by it although apparently there was no report placed in his record or no expression of concern at the time but, yes, they were upset. he also specifically recommended that the military should allow muslims to become conscientious objectors so i think the whole tone of the lecture although hard to tell from the slides exactly what he said but the tone, as felt by people there, was fairly unusual and they were shobl shocked by it. >> he was way out of line, from what i understand, anne. most were talking about medical issues and he went way off the board with this obviously. >> exactly. yeah, exactly. his whole lecture was about the koran and included references to suicide bombers and included references to fighting against the infidels and a lot of extremist rhetoric was part of that. >> let's take a look. we've had a chance to look at
some of the slides from his presentation i believe page 48. what you are saying here i'm not sure if we read it there but he is talking about muslims fighting for god against the injustice of the infidels and the quote, we love death more than you love life. as we read that, obviously, it's astonishing and astonishing to think back and say why didn't anybody complain? did anybody give you a direct answer on that, anne? >> yeah, the answer, so far, was that we don't know. it's uncertain whether it was reported but we have not uncovered any evidence that they did do that and that is very -- very sort of disturbing in and of itself. >> okay. we'll continue to follow, this ann scott tyson, "washington post" military reporter we thank you again as we find out more rev layings about major hasan. thanks again. appreciate it. coming up amazing video. the woman clearly drunk at a subway station there she is doing the two-step and stumbles onto the tracks. loses her balance. here comes the train.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. look at, this i still can't get over this story, friday, subway station in boston, lady clearly drunk puts out her cigarette and stumb stumbles onto the track. thankfully the passengers would do everything they could do make sure the train stopped and the lady was okay and that's what happened. i mean, we're talking inches from what could have been a tragedy here. instead, she's okay. she gets pulled to safety and we are talking to a relieved driver, charice lewis and also a witness, jacqueline asorio.
again, great talking you on this one. what kicks in? i imagine you are completely caught off guard as anybody would have been you think you are heading into the station and all of a sudden, you see what, the passengers, your few -- first cue something was wrong? >> jackie initially called me before i got anywhere near north station saying there was the break of a game, platform's heavy use caution coming in. so already with that you use caution coming into the station but as i got closer to the station, i noticed that there were people waving at the train but there were two in particular guys, the two older gentlemen he that were like really leaning over and i'm like, oh, my god, one of them are going to fall in the pit because i didn't notice the woman on the floor because she was so still and so flat onto the floor. and so, as i come in, i just felt as though they are going to
fall in so i yootd more, more brakes, slow it down a little bit more and then i noticed her and i'm just like oh, my god, just the worst thing that could happen is happening right now and just stopped the train and, you know, that's what i did, just threw it in emergency and just stopped the train. did what i was supposed to do and it turned out to be good. and even though it was scary and to me it looked like it was worse than what it was, when she crawled out, i was just like thank god. >> i'm sure. >> that's all i could do. it was crazy. >> what was the look on her fac face? >> it was -- it was a smile. she smiled. and it was more like a, whew, like, okay. and then she tried to -- she tried to get out of the pit. i was -- when she walked away, i was more relieved. i'm like, okay, like all my blood just went to my big toe because i was just like -- i was
just in shock like, okay she's walking away with all her limbs and she's good, she's up. >> so you're saying this might have -- that 20 seconds might have sobered her up a little bit, is that what we're saying? >> i hope so. i hope so. >> i hope so, too. >> i hope so. i hope so. i'm just glad she's okay. >> jacqueline, you must have been just as nervous as charice here. you get the first look before she does, right? >> yes. it is nerve-wrecking, i mean. the thing about it, we're not allowed to jump in because then it'll be two fatalities instead of one. so, all we can do is use our training to try to do our best with it. >> have either -- >> we have good trainers. >> right. obviously. it all kicked in for you guys. have either of you talked to this woman since the incident? >> no. >> no. >> no. >> okay. >> no, i haven't spoken to her.
i haven't seen her. it was -- the only thing i saw was she got out the pit and she was okay. >> she's okay. >> that's the last time i saw her. >> again, it's great to talk to both of you. mean, you know, in these situations either that training kicks in and you do what you have to do to save a life or you don't and you guys both did so thank you both. soak in the accolades, you know, we need to see stories like this and people that take actions like this and charice, love your smile. great job. thanks again. >> thank you. >> jacqueline, you, as well. thank you guys, both. >> thank you. >> bye. >> all right. coming up, this story, so many twists and turns like some bad movie but we have a woman accused of not only trying to kill her husband but faking her own abduction. there she is. this is the mom of two young girls. cops say she planned this ruse with her 25-year-old lover like some open opera playing out but it's real life. call in, 1-877-tell-hln.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. is it just me or are our young ladies getting meaner some. nasty behavior on the college soccer field. there you go yanking the ponytail. that's elizabeth lambert in red for new mexico suspended indefinitely but one of many moves that she pulled against byu. we have that, we've got a brawl at a ladies high school soccer
match. what's going on here? call in, 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. and what's going on with this story, a woman in jacksonville, florida accused of planning to kill her husband and that's just the beginning. here's what we have. 37-year-old mother of two little girls, mind you, is also accused of scheming with her 25-year-old lover claims she was kidnapped. i don't even know where to begin on this, joining us to talk about it doctor linda young and steve rogers, nutley new jersey police department and with the details marlena schiavo. again, sounz like the bad tv movie. beautiful mom of two little girls claiming she was, what kidnapped by three men and sexually asaulted and wanted ransome is that where this begins? >> pretty much. reed gray, a successful man, finds a ran some letter written
by his wife saying three men are holding her and that he needs to provide $50,000 or they're going to kill her basically. but she tells him, don't call the cops, you know, stay calm and just do what they say. so, he does everything that he's told. he's supposed to go to some chick-fil-a, drop off some money and turns out you screwed up you didn't do what were you supposed to do they spotted the cops and this week-long saga. more ran sm letters, a 911 call and she involves her mother. this story goes on and on but the bottom line is as time goes on the detectives realize there are a lot of holes in her stories and think her capper, quote-unquote was really her accomplice and her lover. >> okay. and so, all this for 50 grand so she could hang out and shack up with some boyfriend? >> well, that's the bizarre part of this entire thing. i mean she's not owning up to it, mike, so we don't know where
this 50,000 came from. she has stuck to the fact he owed a loan shark $75,000 and these captors or abductors were going to settle for the $50,000 and sticking to that story. where she got this figure from is anybody's guess. >> okay. there's a part of the tape where she, the wife, is talking to boyfriend about possibly blowing the head off of husband. i mean, does this turn into a plot of murder or not, mar len na? >> they have audio tapes saying that, she did say that. and the husband's response to this when asked about it, he just said it was very hurtful. i guess deep down he doesn't really believe that was going to happen but, you know, yes, she did say how bewere just blow his head off. >> wow. i think we have that. let's listen. this is i believe the boyfriend himself is doing the taping, that's a separate question but let's listen, here's the wife talking about going after husband. let's listen. >> a hundred dollars is a lot of
money. >> i know. >> now that i'm looking at it the way that what $50,000 is going to mean to me in the future. either that or you just blow his off wamplts say what. >> i said either that or you just blow his head off. >> steve, i don't even know where an investigator begins with this from but what you hear do we have a murder plot here. >> you asked a very significant question, all this for $50,000? how about all this for 15 minutes of fame? how about all this to get on television or talk shows. sounds bizarre but from what we've seen and you've reported the past few months may not be too far-fetched. >> that's where we're starting a base level of what's going on before we go as far as murder plot. >> absolutely. law enforcement will look deep into this but i tell you how it will end, at least i believe, someone will turn state's evidence against the other person and somebody will go to
jail. >> let's bring in dr. linda young on this. why would a mother of two just throw it all away with this, what are your thoughts like a motive. >> like you said it is really complicated and we still don't have all the information. from what i've read it turns out both of them have had infidelities in the past in their marriage, she's been in alcohol treatment and recently come out of alcohol treatment and had wonderful times with her husband before all this insued, supposedly there was a time when she said she wanted a divorce and take the kids with her so it's really hard to see what her motive might be when it's not so clear what's going on in this case there. are a lot of pieces of information we don't have. there are 37 tapes and we haven't heard all the audio show. >> family show we can't play all of it, right? a point linda made, the husband, he admitted he had an affair, right, this past june? >> he did. he admitted he had an affair and she knew about it and that, also, that she has a problem with alcoholism. but you know what else he is
saying, mike, is that she has bipolar disorder. it is undiagnosed but he is saying that is also part of this very twisted tale, which is why, right now, she is in -- she's not in jail but in a mental health facility in georgia. >> wow. all right. lin today, a couple things off that. number one, is this a revenge thing for her? i mean coming off his affair she's going to do this, is that part of it? >> stranger things have happened. there are case where one person does an awful thing to one-up the person who has done something to make them unhappy. and if this is a relationship in which each of them have done things to the other and are dependent on each other, who knows what might be involved. if, indeed, she does have bipolar disorder she may have erratic, impulsive behavior but doesn't excuse about lying about and plotting on something at least on the one audio tape we've been able to hear she shows she really is complicit in this determining how to go about it. >> let's listen to the other
factor, you know, what about just having sex with a young guy? let's listen to those two just talk back and forth? believe me, let's listen. >> i'm not a slut, you know. >> does reid get this much action. >> i don't think anyone in their wildest dreams would think -- so nervous. i'm gonna have a few more -- >> linda, can bipolar explain this, the plotting, the scheming, the sex? >> bipolar does not explain the plotting and the scheming. it's true that people have bipolar may have impulsive sex, may have -- be excitory, may do things impulsively they wouldn't do otherwise and have bouts of depression and present themselves in other ways but does not at all explain what i've heard on this tape by any means.
the husband says it explains why he want to stay with her, viewing her as someone mentally ill and he needs to take care of for the sake of his children and family. >> that's the sad part of this the soap opera, a couple little girls in the midst of all. this we appreciate it. coming up, this video an internet sensation really, a lot of people have seen the lady in read there, that's elizabeth lambert yanking the ponytail of a byu player during a soccer match. that was just the first of many or one of many incidents, really brutal. elizabeth lambert was brutal on the soccer field. we have that and a high school soccer match that ends up in a brawl. are young ladies getting meaner and meaner, call in, 1-877-tell-hln.
a punch in the back. the yanking of the ponytail. lady in red, that's elizabeth lambert plays college soccer for new mexico. she was brutal during this match and suspended indefinitely. that's a good thing, she was tripping, punching, as you saw there and that's not all seeing this high school soccer a couple of teams in rhode island, gets heated out there. next thing you know the fists are flying. these girls are going at it. the brawl even spilled into the stands. i mean, it's not just happening in sports. we want to know what's happening with our young ladies as we look at this and really want it hear from you on this one, call in 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. joining us to talk about it our experts welcome back dr. lin dan young our psychologist and christine brennan sports columnist of for "usa today" one of the best in the business. man, elizabeth lambert really went it for. are our young ladies becoming more violent? let's start with these soccer
cases here. what you are seeing. >> well, what i'm seeing is violence in sports which has always been there and what i'm seeing is that more women are playing sports and more girls are playing sports so the girls and women are starting to display the same kinds of aggression in sports the boys and men already have. they do it for the same reasons. they do it, one, because they think they'll get away with it and they think somehow it's going to help them win. in other words, they think they'll be rewarded it for. so, if it goes unpunished and they are rewarded you're going to see more people being violent or aggressive in sports. >> you are just saying they are emulating the guys, not a societal message we are giving the girls the green light to become more violent a strict sports thing. >> well, i do know in many sports you see lots of aggression and foul play and if it's caught, it goes punished and if sts' not caught it goes unpunished. i think you'll see more of this with girls as in sports as they play more sports and also the
media attention that's been brought to us is making us think it's everywhere because it looks more prevalent when we see it over and over again. >> i mean, our starting to see . christine, what have you seen? you've covered sports for a while. are you seeing female athletes becoming more violent and what's your reaction to it? >> no, it's not. this is the exception to the rule, that's why we're talking about it. that's news. we've had this over the years with sports. at the beginning you should we should take this out of our vok ab laers, ladies. it's men and women. they are tough and strong. we are teaching our girls through title 9 to play sports just like their brothers. in the course of doing this, there's college scholarships on the line. there are all kinds of things out there that are potential incentives to be tough, work hard, professional opportunities.
going back to tonya harding, 1994 olympics. think of serena williams, wmba had a big brawl last year in 2008. these things happen now and again and i don't think we should be surprised when they do happen? >> you're not giving it a pass. what's wrong is wrong. what we saw with elizabeth lambert was brutal. somebody could have gotten hurt. we don't want to see dirty play, do we? >> no, i'm not giving it a pass. i've been critical of most of those situations we're talking about. the reality is it's going to keep happening. we should not be surprised. i hope it's not we think girls and women are dantier and therefore they shouldn't do this. i would love to say, mike, women's sports would be different than men's sports. but as i said in the world of figure skating, what we call ladies, that happened in 1994. >> let's hear from you, call in 1-877-tell-hln.
a heinous crime, a group of teens accused of turning a helpless boy into a human torch. they set him on fire over money for a video game, about 40 bucks. new this hour, three boys charged as adults with attempted murder as this 15-year-old victim fights for his life. plus, let's take a look at this, college soccer player, watch the move on the ponytail. wow! knocks her to the ground. this same girl, elizabeth lambert went off on a number of girls, different incidents, punching, kicking, tripping. this is high school soccer in rhode island. punches are flying there.
what's going on with our ladies? call in, love hearing from you. here is the number, 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail or text us at hln tv. start your message with the word prime. >> this is prime news. welcome once again. this our hour number two of prime news. i'm mike galanos. it's a horrifying visual to think of, 17-year-old boy doused with rubbing alcohol and set on fire. michael brewer in a hospital in miami. burns over 65% of his body. his bandages have to be changed daily. this is a painstaking four-hour process. well, five teens are accused of turning him into a human torch. that's the way the judge is referring to this. three of them are being charged as adults with attempted murder. joining me to talk about this, welcome back defense attorney elizabeth kelly also with us
psychologist linda young. all right. elizabeth, let's start with you on this one. i'm going to read facebook comments to get things started. this is from michelle. i don't see why we have to try them as adults. instead the juvenile system needs to be revamped. change with the crimes. criminals are getting younger and more brutal. we need to adjust our system of punishment and rehabilitation to match the times. good points there. your thoughts on that, were you surprised they were tried as adults? >> in this day and age, i'm not surprised. unfortunately our state legislators have passed more and more laws decreasing the age at which juveniles can be bound over into adult courts. but that's not going to decrease the severity or the incidence of crimes. michelle is absolutely right. our juvenile system has to understand that juveniles are committing more crimes and more violent crimes at younger ages.
but juvenile court is where boys like these have to stay. they should not be punished as adults. >> so that leads to the point there of the facebook comment, that the juvenile system has to be revamped. you're kind of talking about that. can it handle the punishment that these kids deserve? >> the juvenile system doesn't need to be revamped. when it was founded over 100 years ago, it was designed with the idea, with the goal that juveniles are different than adults and juveniles can be rehabilitated more so than adults. so we can make the punishment more severe in the juvenile system, but that doesn't mean locking up kids for the rest of their lives, and it doesn't mean subjecting them to cruel and unusual punishment. it means treating them differently and trying to save their lives. >> let's bring in diane moskovitz, reporter for "the miami herald."
diane, what did prosecutors lay out these teens should be charged as adults here? >> they laid it out very clearly and very simply. they actually sent out a press release late yesterday evening basically saying these are the charges we've filed. not giving much more other than that. they even left open the possible of revisiting the charges, especially with the two children who were not charged. so we know the charges but there's still a lot of questions hanging out there about what all the evidence is, how it can proceed to trial. this has a ways to go to say the least. >> let's get a call in. jeff is with us in arkansas. go ahead. >> ward. >> yes, go ahead. >> i have a son who got in a lot of trouble. we tried getting him help through the juvenile system. it didn't seem to help.
it seems like he's being more let and let and let into more sensations from other teens. i don't know what's going on with them. >> are you saying your son should have been a tougher punishment from the legal system? is that what you're saying? >> do i. he seemed to get out of everything he got into, right. >> okay. >> and if he would have been punished the first time or the second time -- and it shouldn't have been a second time -- he would have had more of a chance in life. now he's out on the streets. i don't know where he is. it's a sad thing. >> yeah. >> who knows what he's going to do next. but my point is the juvenile system, yes, it was designed 100 years ago or whatever. well, today is a different age.
this age is -- they are taking over -- the kids are taking over their parents, their authorities. they are getting out more. i don't see how they can get away with such a huge crime without being punished like an adult. >> thanks. we hope things work out with your son. let's go back to our attorney, elizabeth, there's a father in a very difficult situation. so let's get back to that original point we were talking about. more young kids committing more heinous crimes. does that mean we need tougher, more punishment to our caller jeff's point? >> what it does mean is we as a society need to stop treating our juvenile court system like the poor stepchild of the criminal justice system. traditionally they are
underfunded, understaffed. attorneys don't wan to practice in them. prosecutors don't want to work in them. some people don't even want to be juvenile court judge. what we have to realize, if we conduct our juvenile justice system properly, that is our most important court and we can change the face of our society. >> gotcha. let's bring in linda young. lynd ash, let's get back to a base question. how does a 15-year-old or a group of two or three 15 or 16 years old get to a place where they set another 15-year-old on fire. >> let me say it's a rare thing but there are kids with severe conduct disorder, who do not have a conscious, who do not care about what happens to another person, who are at the point where they have disassociated themselves with what is going on with the person they are hurting. it doesn't help them in the juvenile justice system or adult justice system to become rehabilitated or not do it again
by putting them away and letting what happens in the system. there are a few kids with sanity social disorder who can commit the crimes because they do not empathize with the victim. they completely separate themselves. >> elizabeth, dr. young, diane, we appreciate it. coming up the latest from ft. hood. a somber day. we'll bring you the memorial service and the latest on the investigation.
victims. can you see here a helmet, boots, a rifle. president obama, the commander in chief, spoke at the service trying to be a voice of comfort during this difficult time. let's take a listen. >> for those families who have lost a loved one, no words can fill the void that's been left. we knew these men and women as soldiers and caregivers. you knew them as mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, sisters and brothers. >> there you have it. very well spoken there. let's bring in our experts on this. we'll take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. joining us to talk about it ann scott tyson, military reporter forth "washington post." we'll get into the investigation side of it. jack helmer, field director for military ministry at ft. hood.
you were at the memorial service? >> yes, i was, mike. >> how moving was it? you could feel it as we were watching it. describe your feelings being so close to the situation. >> i've been to more moving ceremonies and many of them are combat veterans, so they are not as emotional as probably the general population but we were there to honor those brothers who had been killed. so it was a serious kind of solemn mood to it, more than you would expect at any other gathering of soldiers. >> was there a poignant moment? what got me was to see the children. anything get you, jack? >> yes. i think the thing that hit me most was general george casey who had the question -- it's a
question from the bible. he asked, who will go for me? who will i send? and he answered it at the end, here i am, send me. that's what a lot of these soldiers are doing. they are signing up, enlisting, becoming officers, volunteering to put their lives on the line. and they are not expecting to be killed on this side of ocean but occasionally they are. but each of them knows that it may come to that. >> that has to be as you counsel some of these families, that has to be -- it's difficult the loss in and of itself, but to lose their lives at home in a place like ft. hood where you feel like you'd be so secure. >> yes, the soldiers pointed out in the news, i don't care carry
weapons around. they pick up at arms room and turn them in again. like most of america, we feel very safe. law enforcement does a good job keeping us safe. every once in a while there is a change and something is a little different or a lot different. >> let's get a call. laura with us in north carolina. your thoughts here? >> hello, mike. i just wanted to comment on the beautiful service for the military at ft. hood. we need to hug a soldier or sailor or somebody and say thank you. it's a thankless job. i know they volunteer and they are supposed to know what they are getting into, but they didn't ask for this. this is just terrible. >> well put, laura. one thing as i speak of the children. there was a child to be in our midst. and president obama spoke of francesca valuez, with her first
child. >> daughter of a father from columbia and a puerto rican mother, served in korea and iraq, was pursuing a career in the army. when she was killed she was pregnant with her first child, was excited about becoming a mother. >> just the lives lost. this is about people and human tragedy here. we're going to take a quick break. as we go to break, more tributes to our national heroes. ♪ amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch ♪
there again emotional pictures from today's memorial service as the family walked by the boots and the photos of those who lost their lives in that tragic day on that tragic attack, just heart wrenching. the loss of a loved one. that's what we boil it down to on a human level. in the midst of that, we still want answers of why this was
done. the alleged gunman, we're getting more revelations about nidal hasan. we're getting shocking details about a lecture he gave at walter reed, 2007, joining us, "washington post" military reporter. ann, what do we know about this lecture. he lectured on islam, suicide bombers. what can you tell us about that? >> we know june of 2007, 25 supervisors and colleagues in the mental health field. his basic message was he was getting harder and harder for muslims serving in the u.s. military to participate in wars against other muslims. they were feeling guilty. they should not be killing other muslims. there was a warning also. this could lead to adverse events. >> okay. he's saying that, by those who were there, did they take it he was warning them a soldier could do this. obviously look at this and what he's accused of, was it a
foreshadowing of what has come to be. >> people listening were upset by it, apparently no report was placed in his record or no expression of concern at that time. but yes, they were upset. he also specifically recommended that the military should allow muslims to become conscientious objectors. the whole tone, though it's hard to tell from the slides what he said, but the tone as felt by the people there was fairly unusual and they were shocked by it. >> it was way out of line from what i understand, ann. most were talking about medical issues and he went way off the board with this obviously. >> exactly. his whole lecture was about the koran, infidels, extremist rhetoric. >> we've had a chance to look at slides from his presentation. i believe it's page 47.
what you're saying, i'm not sure we can read it there, talking about muslims fighting for god against injustices of the infidels, the quote, we love death more than you love life. as we read that, obviouslly it' astonishing. did anybody give you an answer to that? >> it's astonishing that it wasn't reported. there is evidence they did do that and that is disturbing in itself. >> ann tyson, "washington post" military reporter. we thank you again as we find out more revelations about major hasan. thank you. appreciate it. coming up, amazing video. a woman clearly drunk at a subway station. there she is doing a two-step. there she is, stumbles onto the track. there comes the train. on hln.
look at this. still can't get over this story. this is friday, subway station in boston. lady clearly drunk. she puts out her cigarette, then stumbles onto the track. thank fully the passengers were going to do everything they could to make sure the train stopped. that's what happened. we're talking inches from what could have been a tragedy. instead she's okay. she gets pulled to safety. we are taubing to a relieved driver. charice lewis a witness. and jacqueline. let's go to the driver charice. again, great talking to you on this one. what kicks in? i imagine you're completely
caught off-guard as anybody would have been. you think you're heading into a station and all of a sudden you see what? you see passengers, that's your first cue something is wrong. >> yes, jackie initially called me before i got anywhere near north station and said that, you know, there was a break of the game, platform heavy, use caution coming in. already with that you use caution coming into the station. as i got closer to the station, i noticed there were people waving at the training. but there were two in particular guys, the two older gentlemen that were like really leaning over. i'm like oh, my god, one of them is going to fall in the pit, because i didn't notice the woman on the floor, because she was so still and so flat onto the floor. so i was afraid they were going to fall in. i used more brakes, slow it down a little bit more. then i noticed her.
i'm just like oh, my god. it was like the worst thing that can happen is happening right now. and just stop the train, that's what i did. threw it in emergency, stopped the train. did what i was posed to do and it turned out to be good. even though it was scary and to me it looked like it was worse than what it was, when she crawled out, i was just like, thank god. that's all i could do. it was crazy. >> what was the look on her f e face? [ laughter ] >> it was a smile. she smiled. and it was more like a whew, like okay. she tried to get out of the pit. when she walked away, i was more relieved. i'm like, okay, all my blood just went to my big toe because i was just like -- i was just in shock like, okay, she's walking
away with all her limbs and she's up. >> so you're saying that 20 seconds might have sobered her up a little bit. is that what we're saying? >> i hope so. >> i hope, so too. >> i hope so. i hope so. i'm just glad she's okay. >> jacqueline, you must have been just as nervous as charice here. you're getting the first look before she does, right? >> yes. it is nerve-racking. the thing about it is we're not allowed to jump in, because then there will be two fatalities instead of one. all we can do is do our training to try to do our best with it. we have good trainers. >> obviously. it all kicked in for you guys. have either of you talked to this woman since the incident? >> no. >> no. >> no. no. i haven't spoken to her. i haven't seen her. the only thing i saw was she got
out of the pit and she was okay. >> she was okay. >> that's the last time i saw her. >> it's great to talk to both of you. in these situations, either that training kicks in and you do what you have to do to save a life or you don't, and you guys both do. thank you both. soak in the accolades. we need to see stories like this and people that take actions like this. charice, love your smile. great job. thanks again. jacqueline, you as well. thank you both. >> thank you, bye. >> coming up this story, so many twists and turns, like some bad movie. here is what we have, a woman accused of not only trying to kill her husband but faking her own abduction. there she is. this is the mom of two young girls. cops say she planned this ruse with her 25-year-old lover. it's like some soap opera playing out but it's real life. 1-877-tell-hln.
back to prime news on hln. is it just me or are young ladies getting meaner. nasty behavior on the college softball field. yanking the ponytail. elizabeth lambert in the red. she's been suspended indefinitely. that's one of the many moves she pulled against byu. we have that, a brawl at a high school soccer match. what's going on?
call in 1-877-tell-hln. what's going on with this story, a woman accused of planning to kill her husband. a 27-year-old mother of two girls accused of scheming with her 25-year-old lover, claims she was kidnapped. i don't even know where to begin on this. joining us to talk about it, linda young, psychologist, also tent from the new jersey police department. with us with the details, producer from the nancy grace show. marlena, sounds like the bad tv movie. beautiful wife and mom, two little girls claiming, what, she's kidnapped by three men and sexually assaulted and the three men wanted 50,000 in ransom. is that where this begins? >> pretty much. it's very convoluted. reed gray, a successful man, millionaire. he comes home one day, find a ransom letter written by his wife quinn. she says three men are holding her and that he needs to provide $50,000 or they are doing to
kill her basically. but she tells him, don't call the cops, you know, stay calm and just do what they say. so he does everything this he's told. he's supposed to go to a chick-fil-a, drop off money. then it turns out, she said, you screwed up, didn't do what you were supposed to do, they spotted the cops and this whole week long saga begins, mike. more ransom letters surface. there was a 911 call. she involves her mother. it goes on. as time goes on, detectives realize there is a lot of holes in her stories. they think her captor, quote, unquote, was really her accomplice and her lover. >> okay. so all this for 50 grand so she could hang out and shack up with some boyfriend? >> that's the bizarre part of the whole thing. she's not owning up to it, mike. we don't know where this 50,000 came from. she claims -- she sticks to the fact he owed a loan shark
$75,000 and abductors were going to settle for $50,000. she's sticking to the story. where she got this figure from was anybody's guess. >> there was a part of the tape where she, the wife, is talking to boyfriend about possibly blowing the head off of the husband? does this turn into a plot of murder or not, marlena. >> they do have audiotapes saying that the husband's response to this, when asked about it, he just said it was very hurtful. i guess deep down he doesn't really believe that was going to happen. but you know, yes, she did say how about we just blow his head off. >> i think we have that. let's listen. i believe the boyfriend himself is doing the taping. that's a separate question. here is the wife talking about going after her husband. let's listen.
>> say what? blow his head off. the boyfriend in all this. let's bring in steve rogers. steve, i don't know where an investigators begins with this one. from what you're hearing, do we have a murder plot here? >> mike, you ask a very significant question. all this for $50,000. how about all this for 15 minutes of fame? how about all this to get on television, talk shows. sounds bizarre but from what we've seen and you've reported over the last few months, that might not be too farfetched. >> that's what we're starting here, just a base level of what's going on before we can go as far as a murder plot. >> absolutely. law enforcement will look deeply into this. i'll tell you how it will end, i believe. someone will turn state's evidence against the other person and someone is going to go to jail. >> let's bring in linda young, why would a mother of two just throw it all away with this?
what are your thoughts and motive. >> it is complicated. we still don't have all the information. from what i've read, turns out both of them have had in fidelities in their marriage. she has had alcohol treatment and came out of alcohol treatment and had wonderful times. there was a time when she wanted a divorce and to take the kids with her. it's hard to see what the motive might be when there's a lot of information we don't have. there's 37 tapes and we haven't heard all the audio involved. >> family show. we can't play all of it. right, marlena? some pretty graphic stuff on there. the point the husband makes, he admitted he had an affair past june. >> he did. he admitted he had an affair and she knew about it, also she has a problem with alcohol each. what else he's saying, mike, she has bipolar disorder. it's undiagnosed but he's saying that is also part of this very
twisted tale, which is why right now she is not in jail but in a mental health facility in georgia. >> okay, wow. linda, a couple things off that. number one, is this a revenge thing for her, coming off his affair that she's going to do this, is that part of it? >> stranger things have happened. there are cases where one person does an awful thing to one up the person who has done something to make them unhappy. if this is a relationship in which each of them have done things to the other and are dependent on each other, who knows what might be involved. if, indeed, she does have bipolar disorder, she may have erratic, impulsive behavior but that doesn't excuse lying about and plotting something on at least the one audiotape we've been able to hear, she shows she's really complicity in this and determining how to go about it. >> let's listen to the other factor. what about just having sex with a young guy? let's listen to those two just
talk back and forth. believe me, let's listen. >> linda, can bipolar explain this, the plotting, the scheming, the sex? >> bipolar does not explain the plotting and the scheming. it's true that people who have bipolar disorder may have impulsive sex, may be excitable, do things they wouldn't do otherwise, then have bouts of depression and present themselves in different ways. that does not explain what i've heard on this tape by any means. the husband explains that's why he wants to stay with her because now he's viewing her as mentally ill and someone he needs to take care of for the sake of his children and family.
>> that's the sad part of this soap opera, a couple of little girls in the midst of all this. all right, we appreciate it. coming up this video. it's an internet sensation, really. a lot of people have seen the lady in red there, that's elizabeth lambert yanking the ponytail of a byu player during a soccer match. that was the first of many, one of many incidents really brutal. elizabeth lambert was brutal out there on the soccer field. we have that. we have a high school soccer match that ends up in a brawl. are young ladies getting meaner and meaner? call in 1-877-tell-hln.
she was brutal during this match. she's been suspended indefinitely. that's a good thing. she was tripping, punching, as you saw there. that's not all, this high school soccer, a couple of teams in rhode island. gets heated out there. next thing you know, fists are flying. the brawl spilled into the stands. i mean, it's not just happening in sports. we want to know what's happening with our young ladies. really want to hear from you on this one. call in 1-877-tell-hln. that's the phone number. joining us to talk about it, our experts, welcome back linda young our psychologist. also with us christine brennan, sports columnist usa today, best in the business. elizabeth lambert really went for it. are young ladies becoming more violent? let's start with this soccer case here. what are you seeing? >> what i'm seeing is violence in sports, which has also been there. what i'm seeing is more women are playing sports and
more girls are playing sports. so girls and women are starting to display the same kinds of aggression in sports boys and men already have. they do it for the same reason. they do it, one, because they think they will get away with it. and two, because they somehow think it will help them win. in other words, they will be rewarded for it. if it goes unwshd and they are rewarded you'll see more people and violence in sport. >> you're saying they are emulating the guys. this is a societal message we're giving girls the green light to become more violent, it's a strakt sports thing. >> i don't know if it's a strict sports things. in many sports you see lots of aggression and foul play. if it's caught it goes punished, if it's not it goes unpunished. you're going to see more of this with girls in sports as they play more sports. also the media attention that's been brought to it is making us think that it's everywhere. it looks more prevalent when we see it over and over again.
>> i mean, our female athletes playing sports for a while. i'm starting to see this. christine, what are you seeing? you've more violent and your reaction to it? >> caller: no, mike, i really am not. of course this is the exception to the rule and that's why of course we're talking about it. >> right. >> caller: anda makes sense, it's news. we've had this over the years with women in sports. and i know you said ladies, at beginning, we should take that word and throw it out of our vocabula vocabulary. the idea that it's ladies. men and women, and women who are aggressive and tough and strong and as a matter of fact we are teaching our girls through title ix to play sports just like their brothers and in the course of doing that of course there is scholarships on the line and all kinds of things out there that are potential incentive to be tough and work hard, professional opportunities. but i think going back to tanya harding 1994 olympics. >> ah, yes. >> caller: think of serena william at this year's u.s. open
and the wnba had i big brawl. bench-clearing brawl last year in 2008. so these things happen now and again. and i don't think we should be surprised when they do happen. >> but you're not giving it a pass. i mean, what's wrong is wrong. what we saw with elizabeth lambert. that was brutal. someone could have got hurt. whether men or women, we don't want to see dirty play, do we? >> caller: no, i'm not giving a pass. i think the reality is though it's going to keep happening. we should not be surprised and i hope it's not we think that girls and women are daintier and therefore they should do this. i would love to say, mike, that women's sports would be different than men's sports, but as i said in the world of figure skating that what we call, we still call them ladies, you know that happened back in 1994. >> all right, let's hear from you. call in, 1-877-tell-hln.
tonight, seismic development npts case of the cleveland strangler. as the search for more victims goes global. anthony sowell lived all over the world. now a woman in california claims she was raped by sowell 30 years ago. fbi agents frantically going through records searching for any rape and murder cases that could be linked to this former marine. sowell was stationed in south carolina, california, and even japan. could this house of horrors in cleveland be just the tip of the iceberg? and tonight's "big issue" how drugs can turn the unthinkable into a grim reality. also, a father at his breaking point. disturbing new details in the mystery in malibu. mitrice richardson was arrested
by police and then arrested in the middle of the night. she hasn't been seen since. i was that nearly two months ago so why won't cops let us see the video from the release? was there even a i video? we'll talk to this young woman's father as he desperately searches for his missing child. and a teenaged boy doused in alcohol and set on fire. are being charged as adults. but they look like kids. meanwhile, this poor kid is clinging to life with burns on 60% of his body. now some sicko plays a disgusting prank burning dolls and throwing them into a swimming pool. what's wrong with people? plus, a dramatic courtroom finale in the nassau love triangle. former astronaut lisa nowak learns her punishment. if you could call it that. she's stalked and attacked her romantic rival. cops say the lover pack her car bb gun, plastic gloves and diapers and drove 900 miles to confront her ex-lover. you will hear the emotional words from that romantic rival about how she still has nightmare about the attack. is the sentence an outrage? "issues" starts now.
tonight, did the accused cleveland strangler leave a trail of death across the globe? the search is on to determine whether anthony so well is linked to unsolved crimes in california, the carolinas, and even japan. all areas where the alleged serial killer lived when he was a u.s. marine. back in cleveland, investigators have now identified nine of the 11 victims found hidden inside sowell's house of death, 49-year-old victim janice webb was a mother and a grandmother. she disappeared in june. >> just told me that her body was intact. that's all. >> but it's still devastating. she died in this manner and was found in the backyard. >> webb's sister say she was a drug addict. a trait sowell apparently looked
for when picking his target. drug and alcohol are the common threads through the this nightmare. addiction made the victims especially vulnerable. did it also make sowell even more ruthless and cruel? here is one of his alleged victims. >> he just kept twisting my neck. twisting it. twisting it. twisting it. and i was gouging his face at the same time. i was trying to take his eyeballs out. it was like the devil, you know? eyes glowing. you can tell he was demonic or something. youing just see the demons in him. >> cleveland is still reeling from that revelation that sowell's ex-girlfriend, his ex-girlfriend, is the mayor's niece. that's right, the mayor of cleveland. has a niece who went out with the alleged serial killer. she lived inside that putrid how was death for more than two years. more on her wild story in just a moment. what do you think about had
thhorrific case? give plea a call. 1-877-jvm-says. that's 1-877-586-7297. i want to hear from you. straight out to my fantastic expert panel. judge greg mathis of the judge mathis show. delighted to you have here tonight, judge. ken seely, famed addiction specialist. interventionist and author of "face it and fix it." cleveland, city councilman zach reed. clinical psychologist michelle galland and investigative reporter michelle sigona of miguelsigona.com. michelle, i said it last night and i will say it again, dare we ask, what is the very latest? >> the very latest tonight, jane, is that the behavior analyst from the fbi are together. they're working on a crime time line to piece together antony sowell's life. now what has happened is they were on the ground in cleveland throughout the weekend up until yesterday. there were two agents. i spoke with special agent wilson from cleveland earlier today. and what he told me is that they will look back at sowell's life.
from before he went into the military all the way up until the point where he was taken in and arrested. they will look at the places where he lived, the neighborhoods that he visited, and any unsolved crimes throughout the nation, and even over to japan. sowell did serve time over in japan, in california, and north carolina, and also south carolina. in addition, there is a funeral that is set for one of victims. 31-year-old talieka foreston will be -- there will be services for her that will be held this upcoming thursday. and in addition to that, right now anthony sowell yesterday was indicted on rape charges and kidnapping charges and a few other charges. in addition, he's being held at this point on a $5 million bond. >> wow! is sowell linked to murders outside cleveland? one of the big questions tonight. the feds have now stepped in and they have taken this investigation global. that's right. they're focusing on unsolved cases in areas where sowell
lived during his military service. he was stationed in the carolinas, he was stationed in california, and even japan. now, a woman in coronado, california, told police she was raped, possibly by sowell. he was stationed less than 50 miles from coronado at camp pendleton. after leaving the military, sowell then went to prison for attempted rape. so far he's accused killing women he came across right in his cleveland neighborhood. judge greg mathis, you have resided over some many these kinds of horrific cases. in your opinion does he fit the profile of a killer who strikes outside of his comfort area? could this be the tip of a global iceberg? >> absolutely. and i think that what he looks for, as you've said, jane, is vulnerable women who perhaps are drug or alcohol adicted and that's the scores as prevalent throughout our country whether that's rural america, whether in
the appalachian or urban america, wherever you find poverty you find people trying to escape poverty through drugs and what we see here, a drug addict praying on other drug addicts. >> tonight's "big issue" i just raised it, judge, did anthony sowell get away with this for so long because everybody around him was in a drug haze? the niece of the mayor of cleveland admits that she lived with this suspected cleveland strangler for two years with both of them doing drugs. is that perhaps why she didn't notice all the dead bodies hidden around her? >> i just wonder why -- why would he do this? he took care of me, good care of me, and i never thought that no bodies were in the house. >> did you ever smell something funny in the house? >> yeah ismelt stuff but he told me, first he said it was his step-mother downstairs and then i guess after she left he told me it was raised sausage. >> addiction specialist ken seely. is it feasible that she was
incapable of realizing that she was living with the overpowering, unmistakable stench of death? can drugs make you impervious to smells, or is it perhaps that you crave the drug so much you ignore the smell if you're getting the drugs you desperately need? >> that's exactly it, jane. what's happening is that she needs the drugs to live. so no matter what her environment looks like, she's going to ignore that in order to keep her drug addiction alive and moving forward. so you know the signs are all there. the family members had to have seen this. and that's the part that's killing me. we all see it as a society and we could take the actions, but we're turning a blind eye. and why? because they live in a less-fortuneate area? not acceptable. we have to step in and help these people. >> now, councilman zachary reid, you are in there in cleveland, ohio. this is your area. the picture that's coming together is that these women
were primarily drug users. they had records. he preyed on these women. he lured them in with offers of malt liquor and possibly for all that we know, i would suspect drugs as well. and some of them died. and he's just accusing, hasn't been convicted yet. some of them escaped. and said, hey, this guy tried to kill me and i got the heck out of there. now, are there claims from family members that police were not taking this seriously. that when they went to them and said, my daughter's missing, they said, ah, she come back when the drugs come back. >> that's one of the reasons that i will continue to say there needs to be an independent, thorough evaluation of this entire system. because you hit the nail right on the head. and i think that the judge said it also. people want to bring race into this situation. and although you cannot devort it from race, the underlying, common denominator that lured them into that house of horror
was the addiction to drugs. and the addiction to alcohol. and the question goes back, how do we put a system in place that whether you're on drugs or whether you're on alcohol and you go missing, we're going to do all that we possibly can to reunite you back with your family members. >> and also get you off drugs. i mean that would be, michelle galland, the ideal. because if they had their witts about them, they may have not gotten into the house in the first place. >> exactly. >> and certainly that woman would have smelled the kwoerpss around her had she not been stone out of her mind. >> i think it goes back to this huge debate when we talk about health care. i mean if you are rich and you are well off you can go to these nice drug treatment plants and betty ford and all of the like. but if you're poor and underprivileged you have to suffer on the streets, day to day, night by night. >> well, there are recovery programs that don't cost money and i think we all know that. so i'm not sure that i'm buying that 100%.
okay? because you can get sober without spending any money whatsoever, in fact. all that's required is the desire to get sober. we're going to talk about that. more next, more on the accused cleveland strangler. we're also taking your calls. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. plus, shocking developments in the nassau love triangle. remember, lisa nowak? you know that crazy ex-astronaut? she got a slap on the wrist today. is this fair? we're going to hear the stomach-churning testimony from nowak's victim. but first, hard-core drugs and mass murder. we'll take a look inside the toxic life of the so-called cleveland strangler. >> i lived with him from 2005 to 200 everyone is, he didn't kill me but he killed all of these girls. >> were you ever there when he had other women there? >> no he did it when i wasn't -- he did it when i wasn't there.
it's still very unsettling that there wasn't a deeper, closer forensic or whatever look at to where this smell was coming from. 2007, our mom went missing in 2008. so if this smell was identified a year earlier, perhaps my mother, as well as some of the other victims and their families in this case, this all could had been prevented. >> and tonight's "big issue," drug haze. did drugs allow accused serial killer, anthony sowell to live with almost a dozen stinking dead bodies with no one figuring
out in the entire community? were identified known drug uzers with criminal records. did anthony sowell count on police not being aggressive in finding them because of that background? he allegedly told one woman he attacked "you just another crack [ bleep ] from the street. no one will know if you are missing." he may had been right. one woman says she tried but couldn't file a missing report on her missing relatives. she said cops belittled her. the corpse of that missing woman was finally found inside sowell's house of horrors. michelle galland, drugs -- beginning, middle and end. >> yes. jane, i think we need to be concerned on so many levels. particularly the fact that the police were so dismissive of the family members, but also of the women who -- two of the women who had brought allegations of rape against him. and they were dismissed. and i'm also very curious as to
why the -- did the sheriff's department who monitor sexual predators, were they notified that there were allegations from the police department? i mean these are things that agencies need to be communicating to each other about. >> this is a broken system. and -- >> totally. >> and no communication. >> absolutely. >> and it would seem that the sheriff's officers who did the knock, had nose plugs on because they didn't smell the stench of death either. it goes all the way around. jessica, california, your question or thought, ma'am? >> caller: yes, jane. love your show. >> thank you. >> caller: and i love your book. >> thank you. >> caller: you're welcome. my question is, how in the world does law enforcement and agencies like the health department did not followthrough? i'm sure this question has been asked a dozen times. >> councilman? jessica, i want to thank you. that's an excellent question. take it to councilman zachary
reed. councilman it seems like there is blame to go around. and of course the parole, people who checked on him because he was a registered sex offender. they didn't catch it either. nobody caught it. >> jane, you hit the nail right on the head, it's the system. it's a broken system. and what we've got to do is we've got to have this thorough evaluation of a broken system so that all these agencies, public agencies, including me. i got the first call in 2007 from one of my residents who said, point blank, councilman, there's an odor in the neighborhood -- >> did you go to the area? >> i within to the area. >> did you smell it? >> i never smelt it but i got to believe my resident, but i immediately call the health department. and the health department has gone out there. you had police that had gone out there. a sheriff who had gone out there. you have had state inspectors who have gone out there and for some strange reason no one could not identify the smell of dying
corpse. >> ted seely, i have to go back to you because you're the one with the expert on drug addicts. inside that house there's no way that you think have missed it, and yet it would just seem that the need to have that drug is more important than -- oh my gosh, something really smells foul here. i have to get out of here. >> yeah, no. the drug addict is going to stay there, but as everybody's saying it's the system because it doesn't matter if they are poor living in that environment or if they're wealthy. it's still they're setting double standards. it doesn't work. the system needs to be fixed to help these people with their addiction issues. >> jane -- >> all right. >> you know what? >> couple of quick issues. >> i know you do and we've got bring you all back because this story is -- we could talk about it for hours. thank you, fantastic panel. we'll stay on top of this one. it is a metaphor for our addict nation. we salute the troops every day on hln.
today robin meade has a salute from a pennsylvania mom to her son. >> well, thanks, jane. in today's salute, private first class aaron william oxenford gets a heartwarming shout-out from his mom. is in iraq and celebrated his birthday last saturday on halloween. >> hi, robin. i'm robin gregory and my salute is going out to my wonderful son, private first-class aaron oxenford. i'm sure he's going to pick on me by the end of this because i am going to cry. but, aaron, we're all very proud of you. we want you to be safe. please know that we love you. and we can't wait for you to come home. i might not understand why you've joined the army fully but i'm very proud of what you're doing. i do want to let you know my dog still does not have hair. he shaved my dog's hair off. and it didn't grow back! >> these are great stories. his mom says that aaron is a huge animal lover and that everyone including the dog, curtis, misses him so much.
in the spotlight tonight, a family's anguish over their missing daughter, the search for 24-year-old mitrice richardson is increasingly desperate. she vanished nearly two month ago. the honor's grad student was arrested on september 16th after allegedly not paying a nearly $90 tab at a malibu restaurant and for a small, small amount of pot that she'd possessed. the owner of the restaurant claims authorities were called because mit ris was acting oddly and telling people she was from mars and speaking gibberish. the sheriff's department claims she was fine and not under the influence of alcohol so they released her at about 1:00 in the morning on september 17th in a relatively remote area.
she has not been heard from since. mitrice's friends. the family's now complaining cops are not doing enough to find this young woman. >> this is my daughter, mitrice richardson. my daughter, a citizen was failed by the authorities who are hired to protect and serve us. they're not simply here to enforce and arrest us, but they also have a duty to protect us. >> joining me now, michael richardson, the father of missing mitrice richardson. mr. richardson, thank you. i know that this has to be agonizing for you. >> yes. >> start with this, have there been any leads, viable lead, sightings, any tips to the search of your daughter? >> not at all, jane. we're religiously out there, looking, find anything possible sightings, any look-alikes and
that's exactly what they've been, just been a lot of great, great look-alikes so i can't fault them for that, but it's not been mitrice. >> and the police, sheriff's department, what are they doing? >> nothing. they're giving us more hard time. i cannot be that critical of lapd. they're on it. i was able to meet with their commander last friday -- last thursday. he seems to be getting the ball rolling but there's still too much red tape as it comes to the l.a.'s sheriff's. i've posted all of the information that is so critical to helping us find mitrice on bringmitricehome.org. still going into eight weeks have mitrice tapes, even been seen leefgt sheriff's station. you know i know jaffray's, the even on jaffray's has been on this show. talking about he's doing everything that he could do. well, you know -- >> let's focus on the law enforcement, if we can. >> sure. >> i would like to leave
jeffrey's out of it for a moment. the sheriff's department says they can't -- this is a quote from one the officers. i cannot imagine how videotape from the station, if it existed, would help find the missing person. we have no perimeter video and i'm just -- he goes on to explain. we have cameras around the station, but there they're a live fooepd they don't videotape. what do you make of their explanation? that's a lie. if there is an assault on an officer in that parking lot they're going to tape it. if there is a shooting, if there is a riot they're going to show you, so why all of a sudden mitrice richardson is missing they cannot show you a tape of her entering or coming out. they've lying. police reports, lied, altered, whietd out. the four day, five days after press releases they want to add addendumless to the information about the police report. they just noncooperative. they're not doing anything to help. they're putting up -- and it's to the point now that we've given them eight weeks. it's just the point that we're
a teenaged boy doused in alcohol and set on fire. now the three teenagers accused of this horrific attack are being charged as adult but they look like kids. meanwhile this poor skid clinging to life with burns on 60% of his body. now some sicko claims a disgusting prank burning dolls and throwing them into a swimming pool? what is wrong with people! and a dramatic courtroom finale in the nassau love triangle former astronaut lisa nowak learns her punish am. if you could call it that. she stalked and attacked her romantic rival. cops say the joeltd lover packed her car with bb gun, rubbing tubing, plastic gloves and
diapers and drove 900 miles to confront her ex-lover. ul hear the emotional words from that romantic rival about how she still has nightmares about the attack. is the sentence an outrage? stunning new developments, three young teens who allegedly doused a 15-year-old boy with rubbing alcohol and then lit him on fire have been charged as adults. the boys have been identified as 15-year-old denver jarvis. 15-year-old matthew bent. and 16-year-old jesus mendez. they're all charged with second degree attempted murder as adults. now two other teenage boys allegedly involve face lesser counts of aggravated battery. the victim, michael brewer, is in critical condition. he has burns over 65% of his body. he's heavily sedated. he is breathing through a ventilator. he cannot speak. bandages cover his open wounds and have to be changed daily. a painful four-hour process.
his doctor says he is slowly recovering but he admits our expectation is survival, but i don't think that we would be surprised if he didn't. we will talk to his doctor in just a moment. the mother of the two of the alleged attackers issued a public apology. listen to her. >> we'd like to express how horribly sorry we are. this is a horrible incidence that should have never occurred and we pray for mikey's -- or michael's recovery every day. that he gets stronger which we know in our hearts he will. and i eye just say i don't have the words to express anymore. >> should these teenagers be tried as adults or are they still kids who need to be dealt with in juvenile court? straight out to my fantastic expert panel, also joining me tonight criminal defense attorney bradford cohen and dr.
nikolas numias, the doctor at university miami jackson memorial hospital who is treating young michael brewer. dr. numias, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> what is the very latest on michael's condition? what are the biggest risk to him now? >> well, every day we have some ups and some downs, and today we were fortunate to have a nice little upside event. we were able to remove the breathing tube today. this isn't a cause for a celebration because we know that at about 5% to 10% of the time we would have to put that tube back in the first 24 hours, but for now it's a nice little -- a nice little improvement. >> but we're happy to hear that. michael brewer's head was so severely burned he lost most of his hair and his eyelashes. thankfully his face and his hands were spared. it's extremely difficult to recover from burn injuries. take a look at this. michael jackson, his scalp was burned in 1984. you're seeing it go on fire right here during filming for this pepsi commercial.
his injuries were much less severe than michael brewer's p still they were excruciating and they led to jackson developing an addiction to painkillers. jackson, befriended fellow burn victim david rothenberg. david was 6 years old when his dad set him on fire. rothenberg was burned head to toe over 90% of his body. dr. namias, we pray that michael brewer survives but how long will his rover take? describe what he will go through. how many years before he's out and about. >> well, this is a life-changing event. things will never be exactly the same. but we hope and we expect that he'll get back to a reasonable good quality of life. we still have some operations to do for skin grafting. there could be further reconstructive options depending on houtgrafting goes. years of oboccupational therapy and after that it all slows down a little bit as things stabilize but it's a life-altering event.
now we are to move onton to tonight's "big issue" we're talking about teen justice. these young teenagers are charged as adults with attempted murder. the question is, is that the right way to deal with this situation? this issue came up just this week in the u.s. supreme court. they're tackling this tough question. is locking up teenagers for life cruel and unusual punishment? now the big case they're discussing joe sullivan. he was just 13 when he was convicted of raping a 79-year-old woman. his attorney argued sentencing him as a teenager to live out his entire life in prison until he dies is cruel. but state of florida argues juveniles should be able to get life sentences without parole especially when a teen has committed a vicious crime. get this, in the united states right now, there are about 2,500 teenagers, 2,500 teens, doing life without parole. almost all for murder. only 111 teens are serving life without parole sentences for nonmurder. and where are most of those
teens? bradford cohen, most of them are in florida. florida has been called the toughest state on teens. >> it doesn't shock me. >> these teens in this florida case are dealing with that possibility of a very, very long sentence. could these teens get life? and would that be unconstitutional? >> no. they're being charged with second-degree attempted murder. so they're looking at 15 years a piece. but really, the adult system is not set up appropriately to deal with teens. it really should stay in juvenile court. and the reason for that is because juvenile court is set up just for that. to deal with individuals that are not emotionally attached, that are not emotionally prepared to move onto a felony-type crime in adult court. these teens should had been charged in juvenile court. i feel it should have stayed in juvenile court. now the out that the judge will have in the adult court system is he could sentence them as juveniles to a lesser sentence but it would always follow them for the rest of their lives as opposed to being filed in a
juvenile court where it may be sealed after they turn 18. >> you know michelle golland -- >> yes. >> i am so torn about this case. >> i know. >> because i'm so nauseated over what the kids did. >> i know. >> but nevertheless, when -- we're going to see it in a little bit. a picture of them today in court. and they look like kids. >> right. >> they look like 14 and 15-year-old kid. they're 15 and 16. and i just don't know how to reconcile that heinous act with the fact that they're not developmentally at the level of adulthood yet. >> and that's -- i know and that's really the issue is that you know, 18 is an adult. because really we know that brain development of teenagers and children is different than adults. so they have a different ability to consent to things, to know what their actions will lead to. i mean that's really the issue here. and again i think we go back to the system. that if there is a way to help these children -- these kids,
obviously not commit these crimes again, but even more importantly is that when they become adults if they've been in juvenile custody, a way to actually evaluate them and to know if they're in danger to society, i think that's the issue. it's about understanding are these children a danger to the society. >> and what will happen, jane? >> i think what we need to do is improve the juvenile court system. >> correct. >> yes -- >> -- so they can adequately deal with these kids in a manner that's approach the oppose said to pretending -- there is the picture i wanted to show you. lock at them. they look like kids there. there they are in court and they look like three little kids that you would see running down the street and yet they're going to jail, to the slammer, as adults? . this whole thing is hideous because what they did is so awful, allegedly. they have to face justice, obviously. but i want to go back to the doctor. doctor, this -- we only have a couple of seconds. this whole thing is so
heartwrenching ison so many levels. so many families destroyed because of this one senseless, stupid act. >> absolutely. you said it all. it's senseless. >> yes. >> it's just soenceless. >> and again i think the teenagers when we look at like what happened at richmond high school. we also, jane, as you have said it before, we need to educate our children about consequences, about conflict resolution and how to handle these situations. >> and about right and wrong. >> yes. >> before we learn american history and the revolutionary war and loth orithums right and wrong. >> more now than ever. >> moral development eemotional development. >> all right, thank you fantastic panel. coming up we pray that that young boy survives. an intoxicated woman loses her balance and falls onto the tracks and there's a train coming. and it's all caught on tape. does she survive?
and let's meet today's winner. katein from ohio. a great story, she's a suburban whom a big secret. on her tenth wedding anniversary her husband asked thorquit drinking but she just cut back and only for a while. slowly she went right back to her adiction. in her letter to me kaitlin writes, it could had been me so many times. while i'm happy to say katein found sobriety in june of 2006. she wants to tell her story in the hopes that it will help other women in the same situation with that toxic secret of alcoholism. katein for sharing your courageous story you'll be getting an autographed copy of my new york times' best-selling book "iwant" and a chance to win
a trip at new york city and visit me here on the studio "issues." please check out my new book "iwant." it can help. remember that nasa love triangle, the former astronaut who was accused of driving across the country, diapers were involved, to get revenge on her ex-lover? slap on the wrist is what she got today. it was fair? we're going to hear from the victim. first, "to the block" tonight. amazing video from boston. a woman lucky to be alive. check this out. a drunk woman waiting for the subway. she loses her balance and oops falls right onto the tracks. you could see by the light, another train barrelling right down on her. the train's conductor doesn't seen the woman. luckily some good samaritans start frantically waving their hands trying to gets the conductor's attention. at the very latest moment the train slams on the emergency brakes and literally stops right next to this woman's head.
she's actually underneath the train but not crushed. the drunk woman suffered minor scrapes and was taken to the hospital. now, she told cops what do you think she told -- well i've been drinking is what she told cops. boy she could have lael a bad hangover if not for that hero conductor who slammed on the brakes. you know what i mean? all right "top the block" take fwopt man accused of trying to extort $2 million from david letterman says oh he was just trying to sell the late-show legend a screenplay. likely story. joe halderman in court today asking a judge to throw out the extortion charges, claiming it was all a big misunderstanding. and the whole sexual blackmail thing was just a commercial transaction. halderman is accused of trying to extort letterman when he discovered that his girlfriend, stephanie birkitt, was having a sexual relationship with david letterman. sounds like we do have enough material for a screenplay now. we'll stay on top of this one. that is tonight's "much to the block." moving forward to disbelief
and outrage over a slap on the wrist sentence given to that former astronaut accused of attacking her romantic rival. you remember lisa nowak, who could forgetter her 37 she'ses former nasa captain who apparently went bonkers when her boyfriend broke up with her and started seeing another woman. cops say nowak suited up in a diaper so she could drive nonstop for thousand miles from houston orlando international airport in a plot to attack the other woman. colleen shipman. nowak also wore a wig and a trenchcoat, followed shipman to her car, and then sprayed her with pepper spray. hours ago nowak copped a plea and guess what she got. she got a year's probation for this attack. the judge gave her two days in jail and two days credit time served so you do the math. that spineless sentence came on the heels of this gut-wrefrping and i mean gut-wrenching victim
impact statement. >> shortly after i turned 30 years old, lisa nowak hunted me down and attacked me in a dark parking lot. her attack was part of a well-researched, well-planned and deliberate crime. now almost three years later, i'm still reeling from her vicious attack. and i'm still trying to put my life back together. >> colleen shipman was not shaken for long. moments later she was seething with anger. >> i knew in my heart when lisa nowak attacked me that she was going to kill me. it was in her eyes. a blood-chilling expression of limitless rage and glee. >> now wait till you hear and see lisa nowak's bizarre apology. we have so many clips to analyze from today's hearing. and i know you will have an opinion so give me a holler. what do think about this
sentence. straight out to my experts, ken seeley, interventionist. criminal defense attorney, legal analyst for "the insider." and our own voice of reason and steve helling, staff writer with people.com. steve, your article in people.com about this jaw-dropping sentence also including reader comments. what exactly are they saying? >> well, people can't believe how light the sentence was. especially after hearing the -- as you called it the gut-wrenching testimony of colleen shipman. and then a year's probation. it didn't steam add up. >> it's an outrage. i will say that myself. personally, i watched this. i saw this -- this victim crying and saying her life was destroyed. she's the one who had to leave the military. this one is still unbelievably on active duty in a name base in corpus christi texas. that's whos that about. >> that will probably change now that there is a guilty plea. the navy was waiting to see what
will happen and now they know. so disciplinary action should come soon. >> i don't get it darren kavinoky. this just doesn't seem fair. this wrj the victim described i terrorized. she felt lisa nowak was out to kill her. this is what's wrong with our criminal justice system is there's no rhyme or reason to it. it's arbitrary and capricious. this guy is -- this woman is -- oh, she looks remorseful to me, therefore i'm going to let her go without any jail time. >> no, there is rhyme and reason to it. ultimately, good deals for defendants are obtained for one of two reasons. either the defendant is a stellar human being. and certainly that could be a factor here. or there's some risk of loss for the prosecution. and the defense lawyer did an excellent job of chipping away at the evidence in this case, challenging the admissibility of statements that lisa nowak made the night that she was initially interrogated. challenging the evidence that was obtained as being illegally
confiscated. so -- >> oh, please. >> it's exactly those things that create the risk of loss. and hang on a second, jane. i will have to say this. if we can be allowed a little bit of levity. her lawyer -- >> you're going to have to wait till after the break. we're going to have more of your opinion and mine in a moment.
i'm glad you have this opportunity to apologize to miss shipman in person. >> why don't you turn and face miss shipman? >> i'm glad to have the opportunity to apologize to you, miss shipman, in person. i am sincerely sorry for causing fear and misunderstanding and all of the intense public exposure that you have suffered. i hope very much that we can all move forward from this with privacy and peace. >> is it me, or does she have
some kind of a smirk? and take a look at this. this is her in 2007. her mug shot after her arrest. whoa. what a character here, ken seeley. was this woman simply an addict and she was addicted to a man instead of a drug? this guy was her drug? >> that's exactly the same symptoms i deal with in my private practice every day-s these are the extremes that people do. what i'm seeing in this case, though, the problem is the faulty system once again. what's going to happen when we're back here and she does commit that crime, that crime that that woman was so fearful from and she does commit that crime and we say oh, we should have held her accountable and monitored her? she needs some kind of treatment. probation, we all know what that is. nothing. i see people every day that are loaded on probation -- >> darren kavinoky, what if she does it again? >> ken, hang on one quick second
here. there's a significant legal dispute about exactly what kind of harm befell that victim. and this is something that her lawyer was advocating zealously about, that there was a significant fight about whether or not she'd actually been harmed by this pepper spray in the first place. there was a real conflict in the evidence. >> whoa, whoa, wait a second. >> i don't know if any of us are in a more dangerous position tonight because lisa nowak -- >> she said her life was destroyed, that she has had nightmares. i mean, this woman that you're looking at here, the victim, says her life has been shattered by this. marianne, new york, your question or thought. >> caller: hi, jane. how are you? >> good. >> caller: i'm a great fan of yours. but jane, i have a disagreement with you. >> okay. >> caller: we just saw the three boys that attacked that young man who's going to be disfigured permanently for life. >> yeah. >> caller: his scars are never going to go away. he does have a life sentence. the fact that you're upset that
these kids might spend the rest of their life in jail does not make sense to me. >> well, marianne, let me just say this. look at the disparity. this is another case that happened in florida. and this woman here is not going to jail for one day. now, admittedly, the woman didn't suffer physical injuries. she suffered a lot of other injuries. and she could have hurt her. i mean, what if the woman had put the pedal to the metal because she was hit with pepper spray and slammed into a wall? steve helling, what do you make of the disparity? this is the problem. everything seems so arbitrary and capricious in how these people are sentenced. >> well, it's hard to say because you know that colleen shipman, when she was testifying, she was really pushing for a hard sentence. sxumtly, that didn't happen. and there's so much -- there's so much wiggle room in the law of how much time that these defendants can get. and we might have seen a different result if it was a jury that was voting on something rather than a judge. >> yeah. very, very good point.
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