Skip to main content

tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  July 8, 2015 1:00am-3:01am EDT

1:00 am
sector can compete effectively and is allowed to do so and doesn't have to compete against the federal government with all the provisions it has at its hands to undermine their ability to be effective and competitive. with that, mr. speaker, i yield back. the chair: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from pennsylvania. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. the amendment is agreed to. . for what purpose does the gentleman from california seek recognition? >> i move -- mr. calvert: i move that the committee do now rise. the chair: the question is on the motion that the -- that the committee rise. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. the ayes have it. the motion is adopted. accord -- accordingly, the committee rises.
1:01 am
the speaker pro tempore: mr. chairman. the chair: mr. speaker, the committee of the whole house on the state of the union, hag had under consideration h.r. 2822, directs me to report that it has come to no resolution thereon. the speaker pro tempore: the chairman of the committee of the whole house on the state of the union reports that the committee has had under consideration h.r. 2822 and has come to no resolution thereon. for what purpose does the gentleman from california seek recognition? mr. calvert: i move -- the speaker pro tempore: will the gentleman suspend. the chair lays before the house the following personal requests. the clerk: leave of absence requested for mr. danny davis of illinois for today. the speaker pro tempore: without objection the request is granted. mr. calvert: i move that the house do now advourn. -- adjourn. the speaker pro tempore: the question is on adjourning.
1:02 am
those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. the ayes have it. accordingly the house stands adjourned until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow for morning hour debate. chamber is expected to finish work on a cane-12 bill that would allow states to make their own standards. members may also take a measure that increases timber production on lands and authorizes medical research and drug development for five years. more health coverage on c-span when we get -- gavel back in at 10:00 a.m. eastern. c-span recently sat down with senator mark warner of virginia
1:03 am
here in washington dc to talk about the gig economy. nearly one third of americans are working to and three jobs to make a living. during our interview, the senator said these workers do not have a traditional safety net programs that other workers have. >> whether it is called the egg economy, sharing, or on demand economy, it is the fastest part of our economy. it is happening right in front of us. no one has been looking at it. it is a whole new transformation with technology. it is aggregate between the employer and worker. think about the gig economy as someone who drives for huber --
1:04 am
uber 20 hours a week, and also rent out their house to airbnb. it is a combination of different revenue streams with the freedom of not having to work 9:00 until 5:00. part of this is people doing is by choice and some are disrupted by the recession. a lot of my college friends were making good livings, and after the recession their jobs disappeared. they had to cobble together different revenue streams to make ends meet. >> how big is this economy? mark: that is one of the things that the department does not have data of. i have asked them to drill down to find out how big this piece of the economy is. mckinsey has said the contingent workforce economy, which includes able home have -- who
1:05 am
have a second job along with their full-time job could be as many as 53 million workers, one third of the economy. if it is 5%-20%, it is a growing percentage of the workforce. many people by choice are saying that you not want to work 9:00 until 5:00. they also see an opportunity to monetize things they have not seen as assets. they think about renting a car or their house, or time with task rabbit. the founder of task rabbit with having a party and needed. food and thought, i bet there is someone in the neighborhood that could buy dog food for me. out of that simple idea came into this company.
1:06 am
>> what do these workers not have in the gig economy that the traditional worker has? marked: in a traditional definition you are either employed, unemployed, or a contractor. many workers fall into the contractor definition, but it does not fully describe the relationship. these folks may be getting a good amounts of money, but remember they and their employer do not pay unemployment, do not have workers compensation, do not have disability, they may or may not be in health care exchanges after obamacare. they have no safety net. they may make six figures, but if something disrupts that there is nothing that catches them.
1:07 am
we have got to think through how do we not destroy this part of the economy? had we provide upward economic mobility. also is there is there some sort of social contract? i'm not saying it has to be a washington only solution but if this 20% of the workforce wasn't -- was to end up on public assistance programs, that would have major applications -- implications. >> how much? mark: it would be billions of dollars. no one has sized it, because we do not know how large the section has -- is. if you look at uber every few months they change the numbers an increasing number of people
1:08 am
is driving for the company. nearly 80% of the drivers are doing it by choice because they like the flexibility. this is a fundamental change in the economy that will not slow down. >> are the drivers employees, or independent contractors? mark: right now it is undecided. there was a recent decision by the california labor regulator that calls them employees. i'm not sure if you just drive 2 hours once a month, i don't know -- i'm not so sure if the old contractor position works. there is no safety net. i have seen companies like this provide insurance for the car insurance for the apartment or home that is rented out, i think
1:09 am
we also have to think about maybe there is a hybrid classification. there are other models we can look to. if the health care exchanges work, we could have the -- have a workmen's compensation type benefit. is there a model that old holdings trades used to use in the 1940's, where if you were a carpenter, you had a trusted third-party where the contractor paid a little bit into the social insurance fund. maybe we should look at that. maybe we should look at a consumer driven model. millennial's are the largest age group in america. they want to buy from and work for socially responsible companies. maybe when you use uber or
1:10 am
airbnb you add a gratuity that does not go into a company fund. i am not sure what the answer is. the idea that we would leave this to the courts would be so shortsighted. >> what does this mean for the tax code? it rewards the traditional economy. marked: -- mark: the ceo of uber told me his parents generation said the goal was to own a house, put the kids in college maybe if you did well you have a vacation home. many of the millennial's now do not want to own anything. they want to collect experiences they can share on instagram. they are concerned about their online reputation.
1:11 am
they have a whole series of values that may be different. but face it, our tax code and policymaking has been about homeownership and owning things the last 50 years. if there is a change, that needs -- has serious policy of locations -- implications. one of the things i ask in a town hall is if they would trade their mortgage for student credit. many people want the credit against student debt. both would cost the government money, that it asks a series of questions. >> if washington does not stay ahead of this, then what?
1:12 am
mark: if washington comes into early, you could see this whole part of the economy come to a screeching halt. if we turn a blind eye and three or four years from now we see millions of people put on public -- public benefits because we did not think about some level of social contract, that is equally bad. we are listening to people in these industries, we are looking at these so-called entrepreneurs -- micro entrepreneurs. we work with companies engaged in this space as well as traditional companies. we start conversations with my colleagues, i am not sure this is democrat or republican. i sure know that both political parties ignore it and avoid it at their peril.
1:13 am
>> thank you for your time. announcer: learn more about the gig economy tomorrow on "washington journal." senator mark warner will join us to take your questions. "washington journal" is live here on c-span. you can also join the conversation on facebook or twitter. on capitol hill, defense secretary ash carter and martin dempsey testified at the senate arms services committee about fighting the militant group, isis. john mccain spoke about the situation in iraq. >> my question overall would be come up are we trying to defend the british lines that were drawn 100 years ago and putting people in a territory that they do not believe is their country. why are we forcing something
1:14 am
upon people that do not want to accept it? >> i also share that concern. that the mid east will never be the mideast again. everything i recommended to the secretary and president is recommended with the intention of being flexible enough that we can build upon it if we do find that inclusive national unity government in iraq or not. >> thank you. i can't help but mention the situation was stabilized after the surge and we had one and we predicted if everyone was called out that the situation would descend into chaos, it is a fact that thanks to general betray us and a surge and great sacrifice the iraq war was one -- won. to ignore that is intellectually
1:15 am
dishonest. >> just for the record, resident george w. bush signed an agreement with the maliki government with all forces. senator mccain: it was clear they could have -- announcer: you can watch the entire hearing later tonight on c-span. the south carolina senate today approved a measure to remove the confederate flag from the front of the statehouse grounds, that is next. marco rubio called for an overhaul of the u.s. education system during a speech on the economy in chicago today, we will have that later tonight or in -- tonight. announcer: this week on "first ladies, influence and image."
1:16 am
we learned about mrs. garfield. when her husband was assassinated, she returned to ohio and ensured his legacy by making their home into an early version of a presidential bribery -- library. mary arthur mcelroy fills the role of first lady and enforces social etiquette. this sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's original series, "first ladies influence and images." from martha washington to michelle obama, sundays at 8:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span3. announcer: the south carolina senate approved a bill removing the south -- confederate flag
1:17 am
from the grounds. the vote comes after nine people were killed during a shooting at the emmanuel ame church in charleston. the house is now debating the measure, here is part of the debate at the statehouse in columbia, south carolina. coverage of debate as it continues into a second day >> members ple rise.
1:18 am
the senate and guests come to chaplain and followed by the pledge of allegiance. >> thank you. the prophet ezekiel declares you are my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, and i am the lord god says the lord god from ezekiel chapter 34 verse 31. let us join our hearts in prayer. holy god, how comforting it is to be reminded that you are our shepard and that each staff member and all of us together are your sheep in your pasture. we truly thank you oh lord for your guidance your blessings and for your gracious comforting love. moreover, we pray dear god that these servants themselves will labor diligently on behalf of
1:19 am
and be concerned and thoughtful to those who are in their care. every woman, man and child here in this pasture we call south carolina. may these shepherds employ wisdom and demonstrate steady integrity in the leadership of your state to your glory of course, and for the betterment of all citizens and we pray this in your wondrous name, oh, lord, amen. >> the guests invited to join with us as we pledge allegiance to the flag. >> i pledge allegiance to the flag of united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> please be seated impeach. some the motions for the grand jury are such like paper. there are no communications
1:20 am
informed by the clerk therefore the only introduction of new bills and resolutions. the clerk will please read. >> georgetown county delegation has appointed favorable on the georgetown county honorable elaine c. elliott. the question is confirmation, georgetown magistrate honorable g wendell r. mcneil and pyatt and elaine c. elliott. those in favor confirmation say aye. opposed, na. ayes have it. >> it has reported favorable on the magistrates the honorable aaron c. butler. the honorable margie b. livingston, the honorable christopher c. rackus the honorable gerald t. whitley,
1:21 am
jr., and the honorable mark a. harris and the honorable monty l. harrison. >> these are county magistrates and aaron c. butler, margie b. livingston christopher j.arackus, and benjamin c. allen and gerald t. whitley jr., and bradley d. mayers mark a. harris and monty l. harrelson. those in favor of confirmation signify by saying aye. opposed, na. the ayes have it. >> it is cleared of any requests for local bills. any requests for local bills? hearing none that takes us to the calendar. page 4, statewide third reading -- statewide third reading and senate bill 897. senate bill 897 the clerk will
1:22 am
please read. >> this is a bill on many of the flags authorized to be flown atop the statehouse and on the capital complex to remove the south carolina confederate state of america to provide for the permanent removal of the flag and to the confederate soldier monument and provide the removal of the infantry for the confederate states of america for appropriate display. >> the question is third reading of the bill. this is senate bill 897. the question is third reading and senate of spartanburg. >> like to be heard. >> proceed. >> well president and members of the senate. first, before i go too long into
1:23 am
this i want to thank my friend from richmond, senator sax ler, i didn't mention him yesterday, but he is my friend and i have to say in the south carolina senate, the democrats are the minority party but they're very respectful when folks want to be heard because they understand what it's like to be in the minority and of course i am in the minority of the majority when it comes to many issues, but i wanted to -- and i wasn't going to speak today, but the emails i received overnight from folks that were very upset and many said there was a way to impeach someone in the south carolina senate and could i be removed because of my -- pushing my faith on others and as i was walking into the lobby i notice we have a chaplain in the senate
1:24 am
who read from, you guessed it those folks who seem to have hostility towards almighty god, he read from the bible! and then he said a prayer in your name which i would assume since he read from the bible that would be jesus' name so i guess that all the folks that watch the national media will now be coming after him or i guess all of you because you see, it doesn't stop with the flag. we found out yesterday it's not the flag because i put up an amendment for a flag that's not been used by hate groups that was only flown as the first flag of the confederacy and got very few votes so it's not about the flag. it's about heritage but the emails that i got yesterday and i want folks to understand that when i -- when i had several people say why were you talking
1:25 am
about gay marriage -- why did you bring up gay marriage and this flag debate? are you not paying attention to what's going on in the senate floor? so i know we have an attention span of 30 seconds and i'm guilty of it and that's why millions and millions and tens of millions are spent on 30-second ads because they know that's about the attention span because we're all so busy. we're an information society, but for those of you all that didn't have time which i know many don't have time to see the entire proceeding, what i did was i moved to amend our signing so we could take up a bill pertaining to marriage since the supreme court ruling came down and then i had someone tell me the supreme court didn't decide that for south carolina. well, yes, we did have a judge who had already decided that before it made it to the supreme court, but had the supreme court ruled otherwise, obviously that would have had an impact. so this idea of federalism, this
1:26 am
idea of states having rights pretty much ended with this war. it pretty much ended. lincoln -- let's think about this. this is a president who suspended an entire state's legislature, and i've had people that have come out and said well, you're not a patriot. you're not a patriot because those folks were traitors. these are the emails i'm getting from people in our own state. in our own state. these men fall for what they believed was what the constitution said. listen, i found that our nation was wrapped up in slavery. you can't get around it. i got an email today about how we need to end this cycle of hate, and i realized how many people of color died on the
1:27 am
slave ships and i have to tell you, not one confederate flag flew over a slave ship. let's learn the real history and that's why i'm worried about this flag because it is the real history being removed. let's discuss it. let's debate it. i'm not going to be long today and i don't plan to filibuster, i don't plan to draw this thing out, but these emails i've been receiving from people in our state need to be addressed. this thing about our nation's history and not having anything to do with god is just absolutely ignoring history. to say that the confederacy, the fight for state's rights was only about slavery is to ignore as much as ignoring the history of god in our founding. when you -- when the federal government passes an amendment to basically enshrine slavery in the constitution, in order to get the south to return, we're
1:28 am
ignoring that and ignoring our history and legislatures aren't -- we're not here for history lessons, but we are involved in public policy and i know the house is going have a much different debate, but i just want those viewers out there that say that this country was not founded on judeoe ed oned on judeeo-christian values and they didn't want a secular, humanistic state either. let's think about what happened under the flag that i love. the united states flag. i love our flag. i love our country. listen there has more good done to the world by the united states than any other country in history, and i'm not ashamed of that, but there are things that have been done under our flag that i'm not proud of. i have native american history, and they were drug from their land and died on the way.
1:29 am
you read about the trail of tears. and i just think that it is so hypocritical to throw our confederate ancestors under the bus because they're not here to defend themselves and it is popular right now let me tell you, it is very popular, attacking the south and southern heritage and attacking those racists from the south. it's very popular and it's been popular for a long time but i've got to tell you, what you saw with charleston, the south has changed. it has changed. and there's love in the south and i know that folks spoke up about what happened in charleston about the grace that exemplifies christ, and i appreciate that grace and it is humbling to see it in my home state, but i don't believe after that vote yesterday on the stars
1:30 am
and bars getting rid of the battle flag, but when i saw the stars and bars i know where we are, and it's not just about the flag. it's about an acquiescence that the south was the racist, the evil, the white supremacists and lincoln was this great emancipate emancipator, and it's just not true, and people need to know the truth. people have a right to know the truth and people have a right to know the history and the history is that politicians, and i want to say one of my favorite quotes is by napoleon and that is the history is the most agreed-upon fable, and we need to learn our history, all of our history. what happened in the '60s and the way people of color were treated is wrong. what happened during jackson's days of dragging the indians across the country was wrong. we were at war with germany and
1:31 am
japan, but we didn't lock out the germans, but we locked out the japanese and that was wrong. japanese-americans, that was wrong. i could go on for hours about the things that we do that were wrong. the one thing that was right that our ancestors stood for was states having the right to make the decisions that were left to the states and i think the very fact that an amendment to the constitution was passed by the congress and the senate to guarantee slavery under that u.s. flag, in order to get the south to come back, the corwin amendment which is something i've never heard of and i studied history and i wasn't a history major in college and i had this feeling that i was being taught a lot of things that weren't true, and after study issing the letter, i was right. there were a lot of things taught in college and a lot of
1:32 am
indoctrination. it was more of an indoctrination camp and this distorted and, i know the media for the most part especially the national media, they have a bent. i don't think anybody -- you know, it's -- it's up to the citizens to be informed and it's up to them to take all different forms of media and come up with their own conclusions because regardless of where you get your news from it needs to be through a filter in your mind and i think that's the bigger problem we've got is the fact that this debate on the flag has been purely one-sided. i wish that there were folks that were more than obviously just myself and there were more folks willing to come to the well and talk about the fact of what's happened with the
1:33 am
government and how it's removed all references to god and our public schools and that seems to be okay. it's amazing that if a principle did d what our chaplain did today what would happen in a public school right now? i know they're trying to take the ten commandments out of every vestige and people seem to be okay with that, and what's wrong seems to be portrayed as right and what's wrong seems to be portrayed as right. i believe that lincoln has been worshipped and pretty much canonized because he was a centralizer of power and i believe that move continues and if this nation does not turn away from the centralized power or this power that is in
1:34 am
washington that is trampling the very foundation of which our country stands i mean to think that we -- by removing this flag. to think that that's going to end racism and not just our state, but our nation is to think that you can go to the edge of the atlantic and drink the ocean dry. so we're going to do what politicians do. we're going to pass something that makes us feel good that will make a great press conference and at the end of the day is we would respect their southern heritage and kicked them in the teeth and i'm not going to filibuster and i am going to ask for a roll call on third and i just ask for roll call. >> third reading?
1:35 am
>> the senator from -- senator bird. senator from lawrence. -- >> thank you, mr. president lady and gentleman of the senate. >> kim, my wife is my conscience and my timekeeper. when i got home last night she reminded me they went beyond what she allows as 15 minutes. anything worth saying can be said in such timeframe. she granted me a dispensation yesterday, but i assure you i want to hold the floor for the length of time that i did on the amendment i offered yesterday. . i do want to try to put a capstone on my thoughts and share with you some verse from a
1:36 am
hymn that my mother sent to me less than an hour ago and to me, it encapsulates the ministry in life and death of clementa. it embodies his ministry and those of his parishioners and i believe thises very of him embodies the experiences of south carolinians and charlestonians over the last 19 days. i believe historically it embodies the life and testimony of the south carolinians that have preceded us in the 20th century, the 19th century. the 18th century, the 17th
1:37 am
century, and it's my prayer that it will be the testimony that embodies the life of our children and grandchildren. turn your eyes upon jesus and look full in his wonderful face and the growth will grow strangely dim in his wonderful grace. so much of the truth of that word has been lived in creed, lived in creed. i heard you, senator from charleston. i reflected on it. so much of it has been demonstrated here in this
1:38 am
chamber. the streets of our cities the prayer rooms of our gatherings and even in our private places of meditation and prayer, so i'm encouraged. i'm encouraged that things that transcend time, things that transcend time and care for eternity will remain poignant for us. also had a meditation shared with me by someone close to me who reminded me of the struggles of a very human, but yet very saintly servant of the lord king david.
1:39 am
a man that sought the face of god and trying times, who had to deal with the aftermath of his fallen state. i'm talking about his child with the wife of uriah and the lamenting, the angst, the anguish as they employed the lord to fix things that humans can mess up. well, the lord didn't immediately answer the prayer of life for that child and for seven days that child died but david arose and went forth. he sat down for bread. he praised god and he led his
1:40 am
people into the gaitest times of blessing and rejoicing that that family had ever seen. and i am so anxious ask so looking forward to that for our family and for our people, not knowing if we'll have another opportunity. i have one more family experience to share with you today, and i hope this is emblematic of a lot of people who would have their story told but in the spirit of fairness within my own family let me invoke the memory of ruben rufus owens. yesterday, william bayless
1:41 am
dixon, my children's great-great-great grandfather. today another great-great-great grandfather of my children the great-great grandfather of my wife rufus owens enlisted early 1861 company 8, tenth south carolina. tenth south carolina brigaded with the 19th and served in the army of tennessee. unspeakable hardships and struggles throughout that war, but the poignant experience that is recorded in history, that is still near and dear to his descendants is something that touches on eternity.
1:42 am
hot summer of '64. things are looking bad. joe johnston has had a systematic retreat through north georgia. they are in the desperate battle of atlanta. ezra church. ruben, rufus owens. the color bearer again. not all my great-great grandfathers were color bearers or my families but these two i've brought to you in the last two days are our owens with the colors of the tenth. with his captain and his dear friend john palmer. four paces to the front and a pace to the left went down in a desperate, desperate struggle on a hot day in july 1864.
1:43 am
at the conclusion of the battle our owens interred his captain in a makeshift shallow grave and erected a plank with captain pollard's identity, and in the following spring upon returning to upper dorchester county, he took department an palmer's father back to the battlefield the entire distance by board a hard crossing by many a river in georgia. found that burial site brought r.r. owens back to a small methodist chapel in ridgeville south carolina. went off to war not
1:44 am
contemplating so many matters of eternity and through the hard ships and the cruelty and the viciousness, through the ugliness of war looked and saw something better and the lord was made precious to him through his son our lord and savior. at that point in '64 and before bringing his beloved captain back to ridgeville, he promised the lord, if you spare me i will return and i will erect a monument monument, a place of meditation and peace. a bethel.
1:45 am
for your people. he completed that task in the late 1860s it still stands today just west of ridgevilled headed for devance cummins chapel. those are the places i'd like to go and meditate and contemplate how things can be good. again, i invoke the memory of john giradeau and hope that his legacy and others. i invoked john giradeau yesterday as a reflection upon
1:46 am
clem. gospel ministry things that transcend time, fellowship in eternity with our lord as the thiel onlying on the senator continues to remind us that eternity is a continuum. we should live for eternity in time. if anything i request do and say can knit our hearts together for that purpose and that cause i commit to live that creed for you in all my frailty, and all my weakness. i do want to say some thank yous, and i hope i express them for all of us regardless of the
1:47 am
aisle, regardless of the position, but there are so many people that not only have been praying for a working of the spirit spirit, god's spirit in our state, and i think of the 340-year current of gospel ministry in the state, but the prayers for us. i don't know about you, by my text messaging, i can't keep up with it with the overwhelming sense of we are praying for you. so to family and friends and constituents, to constituents who have been long suffering realizing that i'm not speaking for them particularly on this point, i thank even you.
1:48 am
>> i do want to thank each of you. i think that again, what we demonstrate should be an example to how we communicate and how we commune just a few hundred -- just a few -- less than a hundred yards to our north immediately. so in light of what we might see that has intimated us with rule changes next year as it relates to points of personal interest and the efficiency of the body mr. president i still am going to be looking for opportunities to incorporate historical reference and historical anecdotes and try to bring practical application to the contemporary issues that are
1:49 am
before us. i'm not sure how i'm going to do it. it might just be very short points of personal interest but i am going to try to let history in its proper place speak to me and if you will allow it i'll try to share. i appreciate what the senator from cherokee said yesterday there's no greater museum, there's no greater repository of history, corporately that we share and experience together than right here. so i might just start with the listing of all of the things that have been near and dear to those that have gone before us because it concerns me that if we don't continue to show that reverence and respect for those and their emblems and their monuments that have gone before us, those that come after us might treat us the same way.
1:50 am
and there is a biblical injunction for it. when god was good to the children of israel he had them mark that goodness. my piling stone upon stone so that their children and their children's children will be able to come back and reference these stones? these stones mean that god has been good to you. god has been good to us. i'll take my seat on the bill. while i'm here, mr. president, i would like to introduce dear friends of mine, stewart jones county councilman from orange county. a good man with a pure heart and one of my longest and nearest and dearest friends jim yates. i don't want to embarrass jim too much, but the last time jim was here in the chamber he was
1:51 am
seated directly overhead and the senator from clairendon and the senator from manning sitting in his desk right here and his camera sergeant jim, you'll probably remember that the camera hit the top rail and it sprung into a million pieces here on the floor. that was my first day in the chambers. jim, i love you and appreciate you being here. also, my near and dear wife who is kim and caroline. please stand. a month ago my oldest daughter was here, and they're here so infrequently and i appreciate you indulging me in this introduction and kim's text message, please thank you both for joining us here today. i know that it is sometimes hard
1:52 am
on all our families to see us so infrequently, so as caroline, as you head off to college many i can get reacquainted with your mama when she's not running our business. kim is the businesswoman in our family, and i thank her for carrying and toting my load. thank you all. >> this, sir. welcome all of you to the senate. we hope you come back. thank you. yes, sir? senator from buford. >> unanimous consent that the words of the senator from lawrence be recorded. >> without object so ordered. the senate bill and the senator from berkeley. >> unanimous consent for the lead senator cleary. without objection so ordered and the question, third reading of senate bill 897 has been a request for roll call and the
1:53 am
clerk will please ring the bell. and call the roll. it's a two-thirds vote. >> exandriner? aye. mr. allen? >> aye. >> mr. bennett. aye. mr. bright? no. mr. bryant. aye. mr. campbell. aye. mr. campson. aye. mr. cleary has leave. mr. coleman? aye. mr. corbin has leave. mr. corson. aye. mr. chromer. aye. mr. davis. aye. mr. fair. aye. mr. gregory has leave. mr. grooms. aye. mr. hayes. aye. mr. hymnbry. aye. mr. hutto. aye. mr. jackson. aye. mr. johnson. aye. mr. kempson. aye mr. leatherman.
1:54 am
aye. mr. lury. aye. mr. maloy. aye. mr. larry martin. aye. mr. shane martin. aye. mr. massey hasmartin? aye. mr. massey has leave. mr. mack owe convenient. mr. nicholson? aye. mr. peeler? no. mr. rankin? not voting. mr. reese? aye. mr. scott? aye. mrs. shely aye. mr. thurman? aye. mr. verdun? no. >> mr. young? aye. >> have all the senators voted? have all the senators voted? then the polls are closed and the clerk will please tabulate.
1:55 am
by a vote of 36-3 senate bill 897 is given a third reading. the for from anderson what purpose do you rise, sir. >> i would like to be heard. >> proceed. while he is coming forward, the senator from newbury. >> a unanimous consent for leave from 9:00 until noon. i have shared this story with a few of you. a couple years ago i was asked to speak at my church about the resurrection, and we all appreciated senator pinckney's booming voice, and i thought that would be nice to have that voice as the angel during that
1:56 am
scene, and if you remember part of that passage and scripture, the angel asked why do you speak the living among the dead? senator pinckney is not with us now, but he is not dead. also it has been said many times very eloquently of the grace that the victims showed the biggest shock is when family members of the victim showed up at the hearing of this murderer and offered their forgiveness and pointed that man to christ. >> we need order, please. >> any other time any other place in the world, violence would have been returned for violence, but not in south
1:57 am
carolina. not in charleston. when a victim can show up less than 48 hours after a family member has been murdered and offer forgiveness and point that man to christ, mr. president and members of the senate, i don't know if i could ever forgive somebody who killed one of my family members, especially two days -- especially two days. that's the kind of leadership that senator pinckney's -- that our friend, clem, that's the kind of leadership his church got, and we appreciate it. mr. president, i have a unanimous consent. >> state your request. >> according to rule 35b, i ask that mrs. jennifer pinckney and reverend middleton have access
1:58 am
behind the rail. >> without objection, so ordered. >> i would like to be heard when granted permission behind the rail. >> i would like to provide information about it. >> without objection, so ordered. senator from arlington? while he's coming up -- >> permission to district material. >> without objection, so ordered. mr. malloy. >> thank you mr. president, and
1:59 am
members of the senate, obviously we have done something momentous and very historic, and at this time i have been in conversation with mrs. pinckney on a daily basis, and as clemente's wife, his everything, i would tell you that she has been amazing in this entire process. words cannot describe the deep grief that this family has been suffering from. the senate has responded and jennifer has been our strength around us, accompanying her today is -- i say this is senator pinckney's real best friend from childhood, brothers in christ, they came up through the ministry together, and he's the person that clemente told
2:00 am
me, this guy can preach the paint off the wall, malloy, and middleton is a pastor and has gone through college with him and gone through the ministry with him, and they have been together, i think they told me somewhere around almost 25 to 30 years, so he was a person that he talked to on a regular basis. in our discussions, jennifer wanted to be able to come today and thank this senate. she wants to thank everybody here, mr. president the president pro tem has given us great latitudes with the body and has signed on and helped us get the portrait hung, and senator from cherokee, without hesitation has allowed us to lie in state, and he is on the committee, and there was never a second glance at it.
2:01 am
our tremendous clerk of the senate did a great job in coordination along with john hastert, they were coordinating us to plan from day one during this very tough and difficult time even from the lying in state when jennifer was trying to decide as to how we take him back home to richland as she was deciding how we go back to mother emanuel and even when she sat there and was asking us to contact senator mphbgmcconnell and the senator agreed, and we had a lot of choices, but what she has done is she continues to be our rock, as you all know. she has two small daughters young daughters, ilyana and milana and clemente called them
2:02 am
grasshopper and baby girl, and you know clem is smiling downous and he would have been very proud to the way the senate has responded. i thought today would be an appropriate day not before this vote and this discussion but afterwards for her to be able to come by and to be able to speak to each and every one of you, it has been very tough but she wanted to show her gratitude and you can see, as a matter of fact clemente shined on her as well, and his grace is contagious and is contagious throughout this state. what we have done, we have spoken, one voice here with unity, and we are not being divisive and -- i told them, there is no time for victory laps and there is no winners and losers, and we are just trying
2:03 am
to make sure we are certain we move the straightforward. i want to make sure -- she has not been in public yet and today is the first place where he served where she wanted to be, and with that i am sure a lot of folks want to end up seeing her, and i hope that the media and the public would give this family time to grieve. let them make their exit today whenever they leave without trying to force interviews on her. she has expressed that she does not end up having that kind of conversation now, and there will be a time, and she's got her great confidant in this guy reverend middleton has been amazing, and he was the architect behind planning everything we end up doing and all the writings and getting the acquire and thechoir, and the tens
2:04 am
of calls that we shared during the day, obviously is very comforting to her. just to -- in uncluesonconclusion, this state loved senator pinckney and this state loves you and your girls and they love the entire pinckney family, and we will keep our arms wrapped around you and this family forever and it's the least that we can do for our brother, clemente, and we hope to have you back here soon when we hang his portrait so he will be sharing this spot with us forever. lastly i say this, jennifer is a believer. the first time that we saw him in his physical eternal rest,
2:05 am
jennifer said then, do you see that smile on his face? my husband is going to heaven -- he's already gone, and with that she had peace. so i hope that we have peace and we continue this, and make sure that we keep these doors open and keep this family wrapped around with us. thank you. i hope that we welcome jennifer to the senate and give us a moment and we can be at ease and we can all go and greet her. >> the senate will stand at ease.
2:06 am
what's with of live coverage on c-span3. on the next watch the journal we will talk to texas go -- representative lohui gohmert. virginia senator mark warner joins us to discuss america's "gig" economy. later a conversation on some of the challenges facing self-employed workers. washington journal is live each morning at 7:00 a.m.
2:07 am
you can join the conversation by phone and on facebook and twitter. defense secretary ashton carter and joint chiefs of staff martin dempsey testified about the u.s. strategy combating isis. there were asked about the ongoing coalition efforts. senator john mccain of arizona chairs the armed services committee.
2:08 am
2:09 am
john s mccain iii: the senate armed services committee meets today as soon as the media allows us to see the witnesses. [laughter] the senate armed services committee receives the comments on how to --isis. i am thankful to our distinguished witnesses today. this is what foreign policy experts have described as the most complex and a certain international environment since the end of world war ii. all across the globe, america's interest in security and stability are at risk. as part of a broader strategy to dominate eastern europe, vladimir putin's russia continues its onslaught in ukraine with russian troops and
2:10 am
equipment leading an asymmetric campaign to undermine ukraine's government and independents as the united states has refused the ukrainians weapons for its defense. china's destabilizing behavior and it poses a growing challenge to u.s. national interest. it's reclamation of military station and vast land features in the south china sea has contributed to build up and it is blatant and undeterred cyber attacks against united states. iran is expanding its activities and hegemonic ambitions across the middle east as we see in syria, iraq, yemen, and elsewhere. and yet, so many in the administration seem to operate under the delusion that a nuclear agreement could lead to new modus operani with the islamic republic. they have slaughtered their own ppeople, which has considered it
2:11 am
to the rise of isis which continues to go on and on. for four years, the president has set aside as part of a political transition and -- in syria, but that has not been allowed. tragically that remains true today. each of these threats have an comment deterrence due to a perception of a lack of resolve, which our adversaries have taken as a provocative patient -- provocation. president obama delivered remarks that were in delusion. it is right, but ultimately unneeded, to point out that we have done a strikes and pushed equipment out of the territory. none of the progress of the president cited suggest that we are on a path to success.
2:12 am
since u.s. and coalition airstrikes began last year, isis has continued to enjoy battlefield successes including taking ramadi and other key terrain and iraq, holding over half the territory in syria, and controlling ever border post between iraq and syria. the longer isis remains undefeated in iraq and syria the more potent its message is to those around the world who may be radicalized and inspired mayhem on its behalf. it is not that we are doing nothing. it is that that there is no compelling reason to believe that anything we are doing currently will be sufficient to achieve the presence long stated
2:13 am
goal of the grading -- presidents long stated goal of the grading or destroying -- degrading or destroying isis in the short-term or long-term. these do not rely on her ends. that suggest that we are not winning. when you not winning a war you're losing. the reality today is that isis continues to gain territory and iraq and syria while extending its influence and presence across the middle east, africa and central asia. there is no response will ground force in either iraq or syria. that is both willing to take territory away from isis and hold it. none of our current training efforts of modern syrian tribes or iraqi security forces are as yet capable of producing such a ground force. it is unclear why the latest gradual escalation of effort and deployment of a few hundred additional advisers will make a difference in our previous efforts failed to achieve. while our coalition may own the skies as the president said yesterday, our campaign seems to be limited significantly by overly restrictive rules of engagement and a lack of ground
2:14 am
intelligence, which only gets worse as isis moves into urban areas to avoid coalition bombing. any pilot will tell you that they are only as good as the targets they receive. when three quarters of our air missions against isis still return to base without dropping weapons, that is indicative of a fundamental problem with our air campaign. what is worse -- none of our efforts against isil in iraq can succeed while the conflict in syria continues. with it, the conditions for isil's continues growth and recruitment and radicalization of muslims around the world. as published media reports indicate, are syrian training program is anemic and struggling because our stated goal does not include going after a solid and his regime forces. and we still do not provide the sources and training to succeed in any engagement they may face inside syria. given the poor numbers of trained syrian fighters less far, i'm doubtful that we can achieve our goal of training a
2:15 am
few thousand this year. even if the program achieves his goal, it is doubtful that it will make a strategic efforts on the battlefield. yes, we need a political solution in syria. no such solution is possible if assad is still in power. -- assad is still in power. if we do not put pressure on him, a political solution will never be in reach in the -- and the conflict will run on an isis will thrive. the lack of strategy has resulted in the spread of isis around the world to libya, egypt, nigeria, and even to afghanistan, where i visited last weekend. afghanistan is certainly not iraq, but the parallels are eerily familiar. as in iraq, the united states is thinking a drastic reduction of forces that places at risk the hard-won gains in the last decade. while they are improving
2:16 am
in quality, they are still missing the key capabilities the iraqis were missing when the u.s. withdrew in 2011, including intelligence, aviation, special operations, and logistic capabilities. at the current pace, our military commanders know these capabilities will remain critically undeveloped at the end of 2016, what president obama has announced that u.s. and coalition forces will dramatically downsized to a presence solely in kabul we have seen this movie before. if we make the same mistakes, we should expect similarly tragic results. i do not want to attend another hearing like this with your successors, try to figure out a strategy to cleanup of avoidable mistakes. what that means is that the president must provide our commanders on the ground with necessary forces, capabilities and authorities help our afghan
2:17 am
partners in continuing to secure their country and to see our terrorist enemies together. isil is not 10 feet tall. it can be and must be defeated. but that will never happen if we continue to delude ourselves about our current campaign. the president is fond of the truism that there is no military solution to isil or any other problem, but what he is so often fail to realize is that there is sometimes a major military dimension to achieving a political solution. this was the critical lesson that the united states learned in the iraq surge. and we must learn again. security on the grounds is a precondition to political reconciliation, not the other way around. the unfortunate irony is that a president elected in opposition to the war in iraq is repeating
2:18 am
some of its worst strategic mistakes. what is worse -- despite obvious indication that the current strategy against isis is failing, he has yet to find the courage of his presidents are -- predecessor to admit mistakes and choose a new direction. this needs to happen sooner rather than later or the disaster the next president will inherit in the middle east and far beyond it will be overwhelming. it is clear that we are moving in a time of unprecedented turmoil. we see it on our television screens every day. isil has spread across the middle east. russia's invasion of the ukraine china's maritime expansion in asia. once again, i think our witnesses and i look forward to their testimony could senator reed co. sen. reid: this morning's hearing is an important opportunity to hear on the strategy to counter the islamic state of iraq.
2:19 am
it follows up on the committee's hearing in may regarding the counter-isil strategy. isil, with its violent ideology poses a clear threat to the stability of the middle east africa, and beyond. it threatens the united states and our partners in the region and in the homeland. it threatens to raise a breeding ground for training extremist fighters, attracting foreign fighters to carry out western attacks, and inspiring others in the united states and elsewhere to commit violence. the american people reckon as the threat posed, but the same time, we are appropriately weary after nearly a decade and a half of u.s. military involvement overseas without being thrown deeper into a seemingly intractable conflict. as part of the as the administrations strategy, the department of the defense has
2:20 am
lines against isil. this committee has provided essential resources to strategy and the funding of the overseas contingency operation fund including the president request that iraq and syria be equipped in the counterterrorism partnership fund. although the severe cuts mandated by sequestration puts at risk the ability of the civilian part of our government and the department of homeland security and treasury departments carry out the other seven lines to counter isil. the effect of sequestration could be that the u.s. government is having to fight with one hand tied behind its back to it gets our military and civilian departments the necessary resources to confront isil. at this hearing in may, several
2:21 am
witnesses demanded a response to the seizure of the capital of ramadi. the presence of announcement of an additional troops to be deployed to iraq begins to adjust the critical need to bring local tribes in the fight against isil. we will be interested in hearing from our witnesses what additional steps they would recommend for extending the fight against these forces and to give them the weapons they need to counter isil in the fight. in many respects, the current challenges in iraq result from two intersecting forces. the rise of isil and the deterioration of the iraqi security forces and complementary governmental faculties. it can be traced to the operation of iraq. that fails to account for securing divisions between sunni
2:22 am
and shia within the reason. it gave rise to grievances that fueled isil. it can be traced to prime minister maliki and his replacement of competent leaders in the military with cronies loyal to himself. iran's role in iraq and the broader region must never be forgotten either. many of the aforementioned accidents were at the behest of iran or certainly after acquiescence. iran's influence in iraq and political decision-making can be seen prior to the 2008 visit of the iranian president to baghdad. today, iran has its own military boots on the ground in both iraq and syria and continues to support its progress. we must keep a close eye on iran and assess carefully their interest as a tactical and strategic level. as we work with the coalition to counter the threat, it would be useful to obtain your perspective on these and other factors as we endeavor to
2:23 am
reshape our policies and our strategy. ultimately though, one of the key lessons from the iraq war is that no amount of u.s. or coalition led military assistance will lead to the lasting defeat of violent extremism is the underlying political forces that allow extremism to rise go unaddressed. we must address long-standing grievances of iraq minorities and expand the sunnis and kurds to iraq's military structures and disarm iranian militias. in syria, moderate and extreme elements of opposition have made gains against isil and regime, but isil remains a dominant force in western syria. absent of anything, any change is unlikely.
2:24 am
the assad regime remains in the seat of power in damascus. despite these territorial shifts, a defeat on the battlefield is not the most likely end to the battle in syria. a political solution addresses grievances and broad range of consistencies in syria is the only pathway for a sustainable solution. when i met with military and political leaders in iraq earlier this year, they emphasized the u.s. and coalition forces are at the beginning of a multiyear campaign against isil. they stressed the need for patience. i hope you will provide what to expect in the long fight in the months and years ahead. i look forward to your testimony sen. mccain: i welcome mr. carter. secretary carter: thank you for the opportunity to come before
2:25 am
you an ashton b. carter: adjuster -- and address your questions and concerns about this campaign. i want to especially thank the chairman for going to afghanistan over his fourth of july weekend, which i appreciate you visiting the troops. it means a lot to us, sir. as all of you know from your travels around the world, there is a high demand everywhere in the world for american leadership. in asia, i saw some of you in may. to europe where i was two weeks ago. the obama administration and the members of this committee has helped ensure that we meet that demand. and i thank you for that. the same is true in the middle east, where we are standing by our friends like israel, working to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon and otherwise exercising the line of influence
2:26 am
and confronting isil, which is the subject of this hearing could was also the subject of a meeting yesterday at the pentagon were president obama and chairman dempsey and i discussed our counter campaign with senior defense agency leaders. we all agreed that isil represents a grave threat. it must be and will be dealt it lasting defeat. that is our objective, which is shared by global coalition which reflects the will lead consensus on the need to counter isil in a practical requirement for others to do their part. the administration strategy to achieve that directive as the chief of strategy puts it integrates all the nation strength and instruments of power as has been noted. it is executed through nine six and as lines of effort. the first, and ardently the most critically line of effort, is a political one.
2:27 am
it is led by the state department. this line involves building more effective, inclusive, and multi-sectarian governance in iraq. at the same time, the united states continues to work diplomatically to bring about a political transition from assad to a more inclusive government with which we can also work to defeat isil. the next two lines of effort are interconnected. to deny a safe haven and build partner to tacitly in iraq and syria. both are led by the department of defense, which alongside coalition partners, is conducting air campaign advising and assisting iraq it forces on the ground, and training and equipping local forces in iraq and syria. before i go on, let me say that these first three political and military lines of effort have to be in sync. that is a challenge. it is one we are working through
2:28 am
with our partners in the coalition on the ground and around our government. the fourth line of effort is enhancing intelligence collection, which is led by the national counterterrorism center. the fifth line of effort -- disrupting their finances. lines of effort six and sev en are to counter isil messaging and disrupt the flow of foreign fighters to and from isil, both of which are critical in today's connected and networked world. the eighth line of effort -- providing a humanitarian support to those affected by conflicts in iraq and syria. finally, the department of
2:29 am
homeland security, the fbi, and the department of justice were to protect the homeland by disrupting terrorist threats. in addition to our full spectrum of cooperative relationship with department of homeland security of the law enforcement agency, dod personnel continue to strike isil in iraq and syria. the effective execution of all nine lives of effort by the united states and coalition partners is necessary to ensure isil's lasting defeat. i want to add that there are dimensions to our approach to isil and the middle east more broadly that we will not discuss at this meeting, but we can discuss separately. let me turn to the execution of two lines of effort which we lead, which are personnel have been performing with the excellence we all expect of the finest fighting force the world has ever known. american servicemembers and their coalition partners have conducted over 5000 airstrikes.
2:30 am
>> in courting forces who took the capital and cut off supply and put isis on the defense. those examples demonstrate again that where we have a credible ground force working in a coordinated way with the coalition air campaign, eiffel has suffered --isil has suffered. that was -- that is what makes it so important. we know that success against eiffel -- isil requires local
2:31 am
ground forces. we know that a substitute for that will not produce in during -- in during results. that is why we're bolstering security forces. both of these efforts need strengthening. in iraq, the security forces were degraded. our efforts to build partner capacity and devise an assistant operations involved about 550,000 american personnel and six locations. their training court has been slowed by a lack of trainees. as of june 30, we have only received enough trainees to train 8000 soldiers. in addition to some 2000 c.t.s.
2:32 am
personnel. another 4000 soldiers are in training. i have told iraqi leaders that if the u.s. will support iraq, we must receive greater commitment from both sides. we're also in the early stages of our equipment in syria. three months in, training is underway, and we are working on screening 7000 volunteers to make sure they are committed to iso--- isil. as of july 3, we are currently training about 60 fighters. this number is smaller than we had hoped for at this point partly because of the vetting standards i just described.
2:33 am
we know that this program is essential, we need a partner on the ground in syria to ensure lasting defeat. as training progresses, we are learning more about the opposition groups and increasing the availability to attract troops. we are also working to equip vetted and local forces. we are expediting equipment and material to security forces, and working with the government of iraq to ensure this equipment is quickly passed on. in syria, we begin equipping forces us and as they complete training. we are constantly assessing the approach, we did so after the fall of ramadi and continued until yesterday. a strategy is the right one, but its execution can and will be strengthened, especially on the ground. in iraq, we're focused on
2:34 am
increasing participation in and through put of our training facilities. an example of this is our effort in an bar province where we recently deployed 350 of the additional 450 american personnel authorized. we assessed our presence at this military base and provide access of previously unreachable sunni tribesmen. this is in support of the iraqi government's own initiative to increase outreach to the anbar tribes. as of mid june, the iraqi government has armed an initial group of 800 sunni fighters in takatah. the iraqis have already identified 500 more trainees that will follow the current group. and will continue to work to ensure these sunni fighters which is critical, will have the training and equipment to fight isil. i should also note that anbar
2:35 am
operations center is a -- is at takatah so we can advise and assist the iraqi commanders there commanding sunni forces. in syria we seek to capitalize on the recent successes in kobani, and raqqah. at the same time we're looking for ways to streamline our train and equip program's vetting process which i noted earlier to get more recruits into the training pipeline. we are also refining our curriculum, expanding our outreach to the moderate opposition and incorporating , lessons learned from the first training class. i'm happy to speak about that more. in conclusion, i sought to describe to you clearly are the strategy that department of defense's execution of its critical lines of effort and where our execution can and will and must be strengthened. achieving isil's lasting defeat will require continued
2:36 am
commitment, steady leadership from the united states and our global coalition, hard work by our men and women in uniform essential complementarity lines of effort and most importantly commitment and sacrifice by iraqis and syrians. together and with your continuing support for the men and women of department of defense for which we are ever grateful we will achieve martin -- achieve isil's lasting defeat. thank you. senator mccain: chairman dempsey. general dempsey: our strategy -- i want to talk about the military component of our strategy against isil, our starting point has to be the strategic picture in context. as said before the global security environment is as uncertainty as i've ever seen it. the world is rapidly changing everywhere and we're seeing significant shifts in an already
2:37 am
complex strategic landscape. iso--- isil is one of many concerns. as the chairman said we're talking about russia, china, iran's malign activities in the middle east, technical advancements by north korea, rising aggression of nonstate networks and a rapidly leveling playing field in cyber and in space. while our potential adversaries grow stronger, many of our allies are becoming increasingly dependent on the united states and in our assistance and some of our comparative military advantages have begun to erode. what makes this uniquely complicated these trends are manifesting themselves simultaneously. within the middle east i characterize three converging sets of complexity. first, several governments are struggling for political legitimacy because they're not sufficiently pluralistic or they're not sufficiently accountable to their citizens.
2:38 am
second, the centuries old sunni-shiia struggle is very evident. weak states are less able to assert independence amid the tug of war between sectarian regional powers. and third, we're seeing rising competition between moderate and radical elements of islam and they are taking advantage of that competition. within this evolving global context, the role the united states military is taking against the transregional threat of isil is appropriately matched to the complexity of the environment. and is at a level of effort that is sustainable over time. military power alone, as we said, will not solve isil. i don't think anyone here would disagree with that area all nine -- that. all nine lines of effort need to be considered in the aggregate. this campaign focuses on actively reinforcing and hardening our partners in the region who must and in most cases are taking responsibility for their own security. and that's an important point. and during stability -- enduring stability cannot be imposed in
2:39 am
the middle east from the outside in. the fight is enabled by the coalition but it must be owned by those regional stakeholders. it bears repeating this is the beginning of a complex nonlinear campaign that will require a sustained effort over an extended period of time. we have to be just as agile as the network of terrorists we face. we are constantly evaluating our approach, and making sure we are resourcing it appropriately, balanced with our own global commitments. but four years and counting of budget uncertainty have made this balance distinctly harder. thank you and i welcome your questions. >> i thank you, general. mr. secretary, let me clear up a a couple of points before we get into strategy.
2:40 am
you have stated before you would recommend a veto of the nda a to the president. as i position? secretary carter: he restated his position yesterday and i support it. i'm happy to give the reasons for that. if you'd like, mr. chairman. senator mccain: sure. might answer also when you answer do you choose between fully funding the president's defense budget oco funding or funding at sequestration levels? secretary carter: well, the short answer is i hope we can do better than that. and my view hasn't changed since i came up here a few months ago on this issue and the chairman eluded to the problem. i hope very much a way will be found to come together and get beyond the gridlock that we have , and to give us a budget, a normal budget process that provides a stable runway for the department. i'll explain why that is so
2:41 am
important. we've been going one year at a time budget cheerily -- bud getarily now for several years straight and it's extremely disruptive to the operations of the department. it is managerially inefficient because we're in this herky-jerky process. it is difficult to have a multiyear national defense strategy which we must have with one year at a time perspective. it's difficult to run large programs, shipbuilding programs, aircraft programs efficiently in a one year at a time budget. i also believe, mr. chairman, that our people deserve better. that is, they need a horizon in front of them. our military people and their families. and last, i travel around the world, as you all do, and it's embarrassing that we cannot in
2:42 am
successive years now pull ourselves together before an overall budget approach that allows us to do what we need to do which is we program in a -- reprogram in a multiyear manner, not in a one year at a time manner. so for all those reasons, mr. chairman, i just appeal. it's not something i have any particular expertise in. and it's obviously much bigger than defense because as noted, the success of this campaign and the success of our national security hinges very prorptely -- very importantly on this department, the department that i lead but also on law , enforcement and homeland security, diplomacy. i'm hoping, mr. chairman, we can do better than that choice, and we don't continue down what i called a road to nowhere. senator mccain: well, you may be presented with that choice. i would also add this is an authorizing bill. the appropriations committee is
2:43 am
where the money is, but just very quickly, your confirmation hearing you stated in response to my question about whether we should arm the ukrainians, quote, i'm very inclined in that direction, mr. chairman, because i think we need to support the ukrainians and defend themselves. i haven't confirmed with our military but i incline the direction of providing with arms, including to get to what i'm -- your question is lethal arms. you still have that position? secretary carter: i have not changed my thinking in those months and i talked to the ukrainian minister of defense just the other week. senator mccain: do you still want to support arming them or not? that's a pretty straightforward question. secretary carter: we're considering that. we have not made a decision in that regard. we are still providing -- senator mccain: are you still inclined of providing arms to ukrainian, please, mr. secretary? secretary carter: yes, i have
2:44 am
then changed my view. senator mccain: that's a simple answer to a simple question. secretary carter: if i could just -- senator mccain: no because i have two minutes left. thank you. now we are -- let's -- 5,000 air strikes have been conducted. 75% of the air strikes returned without having dropped a weapon. if there's ever a compelling argument for forward air controllers it seems to me that's the case. now, you mentioned we're currently training about 60 fighters. i got to tell you after four years, mr. secretary, that's not a very impressive number. and is it true that with these people that you are training and equipping to fight in syria, is it true you are telling them they are only there to fight isis and not assad? is that true? secretary carter: yes, we are telling them to -- that we are
2:45 am
arming and training them in the first instance to go after isil and not the assad regime. these are the people that come from areas that have been overrun by isil. senator mccain: in other words if they are barrel bombed by bashar assad -- secretary carter: well -- senator mccain: is that to defend them against barrel bombing? secretary carter: that decision will be faced when we -- senator mccain: that's a small comfort to the people you are recruiting now that that decision will be made later on. is it fair these young men to -- is that fair to these young men to say we are sending you in to fight isis only and we'll decide on the policy to defend you if you are barrel bombed? secretary carter: they know we'll provide support to them. senator mccain: does that mean you will not defend them against
2:46 am
bashar assad's barrel bombing? mr. secretary, this is not pleasent conversation. will we tell them that we will defend them against bashar assad's barrel bombing? secretary carter: i think we have an obligation -- senator mccain: have you told them that? secretary carter: no, we have not told them that. senator mccain: you have not told them you will defend them because you have not made the decision yet, and you want to train them quickly and send them in. now, there's success on the part of an outfit called the army of conquest which is funded and trained and equipped generally mostly by saudi arabia, qatar and perhaps others. they are succeeding and -- if there's battlefield gains they are achieving them. does the united states have any relationship with that outfit? because they are fighting against bashar assad as well as
2:47 am
isis. secretary carter: i have to get back to you because who has that contact is something we can success separately. if i can go back -- can i go back, mr. chairman? you mentioned the question of air sortese and which fraction of them result in strikes. and i'd like to explain those numbers to you a bit. in the case where the air strikes are -- i will ask the chairman to elaborate further on this. in the case where the air strikes are conducted in the deliberate manner, that is when those at the time the aircraft embarks on the sorti what the target will be, in those cases 93% of the time they're concluding the sordi. when it comes to dynamic targeting the fraction is much lower. it's about 37%. and the reason for that is that in the case of dynamic targeting
2:48 am
by its nature the aircraft is deployed with the expectation that a target of opportunity -- let's say a target moving on the ground or developing tactical situation -- will provide the opportunity for a strike. that doesn't happen all the time , but it does happen about 37% of the time, a fraction i should note that is much higher than it was in afghanistan where we did the same thing. we routinely flew sorties in order to capitalize upon fleeting opportunities or developing opportunities. so our experience here is in fact better than it is in afghanistan. but anyway, that is what explains these numbers. senator mccain: any experienced pilot will tell you if you have a forward air controller on the ground to identify those targets, then the number of targets hit is dramatically increased.
2:49 am
and we have no forward air controllers on the ground, and that, i can tell you, is incredibly frustrating to the young pilots who are flying these 6 1/2-hour sorties who feel they are not achieving anything, mr. secretary. you might want to talk to them as well so they are the ones doing the fighting. secretary carter: if i can address the question of jtechs. i think that is fundamental. since you raised it, let me go back the fundamentals of the strategy which is to support capable and motivated ground forces when we find them. and we are supporting such capable and effective ground forces for example -- the kurds in northern syria. now, we -- senator mccain: mr. secretary, my time is way up. but that has nothing to do with not having forward air controllers on the ground.
2:50 am
i hate to cut you short, but we are three-minute -- secretary carter: i'm saying we don't rule that out and our strategy -- senator mccain: you never rule it out if it doesn't happen. mr. reed. senator reed: thank you very much, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, i was struck by your statement when you said that first critical line with our efforts is a political one led by the state department. in your colloquy with the chairman you pointed out that there are challenges with respect to year-to-year o.c.o. funding that's being proposed. but the state doesn't even have options that source of funding. are you concerned that they might be so resourced deprived under the budget control act they could not be the primary? secretary carter: i am. the state department, the department of homeland security, other agencies that are critical to protecting us against isil and other threats, they need resources too. and so that's another reason why i appeal for a overall budget
2:51 am
perspective, and i realize it involves lots of moving parts , and would require a major coming together to release the gridlock of the last few years but i really appeal for that , not just for my own department, but for the rest of the national security establishment, i think it's critical. senator reed: shifting to the training effort in iraq, one of the first issues was the composition of the provisional forces that rallied a year ago to try to defend baghdad. overwhelming shiia. and now we're beginning to see sunnis appear. first, is that the deliberate cooperation of the government in baghdad? are they finally getting the message that they have to have the support of the sunni community? second, are you beginning to see a trend that's a positive one in the sense of the overall participation of sunnis? secretary carter: we see the commitment of prime minister
2:52 am
abaddy so different from the behavior of his pled sessor. -- predecessor to engage in a multisectarian way in the fight against isil. that includes the kurds and that includes sunnis. that's going slowly which explains why the numbers are slow. -- small. we expect them to grow. what we want is the government is the enrollment of sunnis in the iraqi security forces and the commitment of the iraqi government to pay them, to equip them with our help, which we provide, and then to get back to the chairman's question about direct support to them. when we have effective ground forces, under the control of the iraqi government, we are prepared to do more to support them. but we need to have those
2:53 am
effective ground forces because local forces on the ground, we know from experience, is the only way to create a lasting defeat of isil. and that's what the strategy's all about. senator reed: general dempsey, can you comment on your perception of the situation in terms of sunni forces in anbar province particularly and the government in baghdad's relationship with them expediting weapons, providing support, more rhetorically but actually? general dempsey: i can, senator, thanks. as the secretary mentioned, the good intention of prime minister abadi has not been -- levels of bureaucracy beneath him. so there was a period of time when frankly we had the capability to bring them in but we didn't -- we couldn't generate the recruits. that situation has improved. i think probably as a result of the -- of their failure in
2:54 am
ramadi and what we see how is a renewed effort by the prime minister to empower his i.s.f. his iraqi security force leaders, to reach out to the sunni tribes and to arm them. it's our policy to do that through the jack reed central government, not directly because our objective is a unified iraq. if it became clear that wasn't going to happen, we'd have to reconsider the campaign. senator reed: one of the observations is the leader at the tactical level all the way up to brigade and division of the iraqi forces continues to be unimpressive. are there active changes going on to ensure that leadership at the brigade division level is competent? in fact, it's startling because it appears that isil -- in fact, there are some indications that are former bathists operating
2:55 am
with them, capable than the iraqi security forces, your comments. general dempsey: we tend to look at the tactical shifting and who owns what territory. we also need to watch iraqi leadership changes. recently we received an open search report that there chief of defense would be retired. we consider that to be a very positive change. there's issues up and down the chain of command. we also watch carefully the distribution of their budget. how much money is going into the ministry of defense. how much is going into the popular mobilization force. how oil is being generated and the revenues shared. we watched the influence of the ministry of defense, whether the i.s.f. is the dominant force for the
2:56 am
government of iraq or whether that dominance is shifting to the popular mobilization forces. the relationship of the iraqi army and the iraqi police and we watched the activities of the shiia militia. in every case there's indications, there's positive indications and in every case there's indications that concern us. senator reed: quickly, mr. secretary, because there's just a moment left. the issues come up about the training, equipping of forces going into syria. i would presume -- and general might want to comment also -- that part of the plan to insert these forces would be to protect them as much as possible from any type of response. to focus them on isil but also to put them in places in the country where they would be much less likely to be engaged but if , they were engaged they would not only have the right to defend themselves but might presumption would be we would assist them from defending themselves from attack, is that a fair estimate? secretary carter: that's my feeling. that's what i said. i think we have an obligation to do so. you're right. i don't expect that occasion to
2:57 am
arise anytime soon. to get to the chairman's point earlier, the -- in the very first vetting, the thing, mr. chairman, that made the numbers so small -- and i said the number 60 and i can look out at your faces and you had the same reaction i do, that number is so small. why is that number so small? and the reason for that has to do with the criteria we apply -- and some of this is the law -- to these recruits. we do counterintelligence screening, we make sure that they, for example, aren't going to pose a green on blue threat to their trainers, that they don't have any history of atrocities. these are all things that are required of us and they're , willing to engage in the
2:58 am
campaign in a way that's compliant with the law of armed conflict. all of this is the legal -- and i would say principled -- i'm not arguing with it -- policies of the u.s. as far as the fighters are concerned. that's why 60 of them got out the other end of the process. now the general that's doing the training, i indicated he's got 7,000 more, expects that we'll do better as we get better and that number 60, which is not impressive, will get more -- get larger over time as he learns more -- to get to the chairman's earlier point -- about the groups that are willing to cooperate with us. but they -- when we do get them they will deserve our support and we'll give our support to them. it's going to take some time obviously to get the numbers up to the point where they can really have an effect. senator reed: thank you. secretary carter: i should point out, by the way, while fighting in syria, while these numbers
2:59 am
are small, this particular train and equip, i'd quickly point out there are other capable ground forces fighting, both the regime and isil. some of which we can support and do support with i.s.r., air strikes and so forth, i gave the example of the syrians jeff -- syrian kurds. we are trying to see more and we are trying to get better at training them because the number 60 as you all recognized is not an impressive number. senator reed: thank you. senator mccain: senator sessions. senator sessions: thank you, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, this is a tough job you've undertaken and -- but as my wife reminds me when i complain, don't blame me, you asked for the job. but i'm not sure you asked for it. you were asked to take the job but at any rate, on senator mccain's opening comment is exceedingly important. it goes to the t of what have
3:00 am
we're here for. the whole purpose of this hearing is to how to confront and stop isis and the levant. we will talk about that, not these other strategies, general dempsey, not the threats around the world. we need a strategy on this problem. i'm deeply disappointed. i don't see the confidence in your testimony or general dempsey's testimony. i believe we are actively carrying out a strategy that the president has and i don't believe it has sufficient respect for the use of military force necessary to be successful. i hate to be a critic about this. this is important. senator mccain warned in 2011 we should not pull out all our troops and we need to remained engaged in that country. and he also warned you if we do it in afghanistan the same thing is liable to happen there. both of which would be tragedies of monumental proportions